Legacy and Lessons in Online Safety

You know, folks, when Gibb and I first started this podcast, we had no idea what we were doing We had so many worries, Would anybody listen? Would we just make fools of ourselves? But now we know we were right to go ahead and try it because look, we're ten years later But it also helps to have a partner on your side like Shopify Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world And ten percent of all e commerce in the US, from household names like GyShark to True Crime All the time to brands just getting started. You can get started with your own design studio. They have ready to use templates that help build a beautiful online store that matches your brand style. Shopify helps you get the word out like you have a whole marketing team behind you You can easily create email and social media campaigns. 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Feful terms at mintMobile d. com Hello everyone and welcome to episode five hundred four of the True Cime All the time podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me as always is my partner in True Crime. Mike Gibson, Gibby how are you? Yeahy, I'm doing good. How about you? I'm doing great You and I are just getting back into the swing of things after coming back from Crime Con in Vegas Yeah know, it was great It was. We had our meet up, we got to meet newew fans, see old, you know, fans that have been with us a long time lot of fun It's also very expensive in Las Vegas. It is. hopefully all get my shirt back somehow from there. He locksed your shirt. Yeah Let's go ahead and give our Patreon shout outs. We had Richard Ramirez jump out her highest level. Well, that's a very interesting last name, Ramirez withith the first name Richard I was going to say, I think Ramirez is pretty common Yeah The combo though. The combo is what what strikes it Patrick Erksson also jumped out to her highest level. What's going on, Patrick? We had Casey Vanu. Hey Vanu. Jackie Hanson. Well, thanks, Jackie. And last but not least Charles Thompson Thank you so much, Charles. And you'll hear from Charles later on, not directly, but he also sent us a big package from Scotland. Really? And do you know Charles? he's in charge. Yeah of our days and our nights Always got it up dooomy, don't you? do or out do you? However you want to say All right, then if we go back into the vault This week we selected Rebecca. Thanks, Rebecca. Yeah, we appreciate all the the Patreon support we got. And we did talk a lot more about Crime C on Patreon. So if you're a Patreon supporter, go over there and check it out. If you're not, now's a great time to sign up We have a brand new episode out on Unsolved right now where we're talking about actress Barbara Colber She was murdered in nineteen seventy five. Shortly after she got a big break in her career, it was a major role in a new sitcom. So we go through all the particulars of that case And then on Thursday's TCat We're talking about Aarron Goodw B known for his role as cameraman, ghost hunter, on the popular show Ghost Adventures In twenty twenty four, his wife, Victoria began plotting to kill him. with Florida inmate Grant A motto Who week covered on T cat Yeah, that's a very interesting case. It is. it is. So that'll be out Thursday All right, buddy, are you ready to get into this episode of True Crime all the time? I am ready. We're talking about Casey Woody In december two thousand two thirirteen year old Casey Woody was stalked, abducted and murdered. by a forty seven year old man she met online who had been posing as a teenager in chat Such a scary That is. Casey Woody was born on october seventeenth nineteen eighty nine Her parents were Rick Woody and Christie Woody. Casey has two older brothers, Tim and Austin And speaking of people posing as teenagers online to meet underage people Chris Hansen was in the booth like just a few down from us. Yeah to catch a predator is going to come to mind in this episode, no doubt Since nineteen eighty four, the family had lived in Holland, Arkansas. tiny community in rural Faulkner County There he appealed to Christie and Rick because it was quiet and safe And you know, that's what a lot of families look at when they, you know, they start to have kids Where's the best place to raise our kid? Yeah, you want a nice, nice community, safe community goodood school system, things like that Casey attended school in nearby Greenbrier. june nineteenth, nineteen ninety seven Christy, Tim and Casey were on their way home from Tim's baseball game When two horses ran onto the river in front of them Rig hit one of the horses which slammed through the windshield on the passenger side killing Christy man. I mean, you don't here things like that around here, right? We don't have horses getting loose We have deer. We do have a lot of deer which cause accidents. We have a lot of horses I have just not heard of a scenario like this around here, not to say it couldn't happen But how tragic And Casey was just seven years old when her mother died From then on, she hated horses. And how could you not A, heartbreak becausecause Casey grew up without her mom, She assumed a lot of responsibility at a young age. She did her own laundry dinner for herself and did her homework without being told Things that you'd never have done even to this date Oh, and I certainly never did my homework. you all know that whether I was told or not I'm still correcting you on things In june two thousand one, Rick Woody went on part time patrol for the Green Brier Police Department. He had been working as a dispatcher, but he wanted to be on the streets He was assigned to the nightship Normally, Casey's older brother, Tim was home at night. On weekends, she went to her grandmother's house There were some evenings when Casey was home alone for several hours, but Rick believed she was safe Casey didn't seem to mind being home alone They had lived in the same area for eighteen years. No issues And it was said they even often left their door unlocked I mean There's communities like that. I mean, I kind of live in a community like that now. that. I'm not concerned. I feel like I could leave my door unlocked and not have to worry about it You know, me, I lock it down and Yeah, all that. M mean, partly because you have nothing of value that anyone would want to steal. so Now they might want to do you harm for a myriad of reasons. That's why I lock it down when I'm in it But it's certainly not going to be because you have a treasure trove of veryy expensive items. As cheap as you are. Those are all buried At the time of her death Casey was a student at Greenbrier Middle School and participated in band and choir. She was also in her school's gifted and talent. Casey was said to be Qiet around people she didn't know But she loved to perform for friends and family. She was described as a model shop and had deep empathy for others She was also more trusting than her peers because She had never had a bad experience with anyone before Jessica Bradford, one of Casey's best friends, told THV eleven personality was outgoing and caring Nobody was a stranger When you don't know any better Right because he's never experienced it. so You're gonna be like that. Yeah. I mean, if you grow up kind of in a rough environment or let's say you grew up on the streets You are going to be a lot more wary of things. thenen, you know, if you grow up in Middle America You're very sheltered, You've never had a bad experience I could see that happening Casey likes spending time with her friends and listening to bands like InSync. She was also interested in the internet Chinner friends used online chat room to message other teams. And Casey lives so far out in the country that Pone calls to Greenborough. which was twelve miles north We're long distance Rick had strict rules about using the phone So Kasey mostly used instant messaging to her friends She preferred instant messaging over email because she could have conversations in real time Her username was model Behavior sixty three Mel behavior was one of her favorite Disney movies sixty three was her brother's football. Jersey And I remember growing up Back in the day when you had Just the town over was long distance. literally would drive me crazy because You're thinking it's not that far. How can it be long distance? But if you called, you know, wanted to talk to a girl over there, you called and You know, your parents be like, why did you make his long distance phone call? You know, twenty times this month. and talk for an hour or two, you know, and you can't tell the truth, right?s because Mom, dad is, comeome on now. You know what I'm trying to do here But There was also, if you remember Peak hours, there was. Like if you called after a certain time, it would be cheaper. I mean, just things that we don't even think about today because First of all, you just pick up your cell phone call. You don't worry about where it is, you don't worry about what time it is It's unlimited, baby I remember I remember one time dating this girl, I just I don't know, a sophomore or something in high school Long distance I called her at nighttime and we were talking and, you know No you say goodbye. No, you say goodbye, you know, back and forth. sure. and then She said, Well, just fall asleep with me. And I remember, okay, And then I remember when the bill came My dad about lit me up I'm surprised he didn't actually with light Mel rac track. probablyrobably did light me up, but He was like, why? Why is there like was something like seven hours or something What the heck Did you have to talk about am I Well, we did, we fell asleep and that just made a point. Oh, that's yeah, that's not going to go Yeah In may two thousand two, Casey met a boy named Scott online Scott was fourteen years old at the time and lived in a suburb of Atlant He liked football and wrestling Casey and Scott talked and flirted for several months before they became official on october third, two thousand two By the fall of two thousand two Casey was a regular in Yahoo's Ten and Christian chat That summer, she met a guy named Date. in a Yahoo chat room. in his profile Dave indicated that he was an eighteen year old from San Diego picture showed a young man with wavy hair So You know, the two became friends, they messaged each other regularly Casey introduced Dave to others in her online friend They bonded over their love of music played guitar and case he sang and played the saxophone Casey set up through a phone call between herself Dave and her real life friend. and even sent day photos of some of her friends She briefly considered Dave her boyfriend But in early autumn She became interested in a local boy. She broke up with that boy for Scott According to the Arkansas Democrat Gazette. Casey and Dave's friendship was full of romantic overtime Even after Scott became her boyfriend Casey had introduced Scott today. They had even talked on the phone before The first time Dave called Scott's mother answered and asked why someone was calling from California Scott took the phone from her and said it was a friend of a friend The second time Scott's dad answered the He was angry when he heard Dave's voice and declared that He wasn't a kid. and ordered him not to call again Some people just can't be fooled. Yeah. Some people pick up on things that You know, maybe a fourteen, fifteen year old just wouldn't pick up Casey's real life friends were concerned over how trusting she was Af strangers she met online Her friend Samantha had never liked it. And she thought Scott's romantic messages were excessive. Another friend had similar feelings about Scott Casey once emailed him an excerpt of a message from Scott And he asked how long she had known him. And if she believed all the things he was saying Woody was also concerned when Casey told him her online friend was celebrating his eighteenth birthday He told her eight teeen was too old and ordered Casey to stop talking We both have Daughters We've been down that road. We know how we feel about them dating somebody Too old. Yeah But we also know and have experienced what happens when you try to order your daughter not to talk to somebody, not to, you know see somebody I mean, most of the time, Gibbs, was a due It just makes them want to do it that much more. Yeah, it back backfires on you. They can, for sure Casey message D and told him that her dad said they couldn't talk anymore Around that time, Dave started calling Casey Freedom to her about his a who is in a coma after a car accident, and wasn't expected to live more than a few months Casey felt bad for her And I mentioned it, right? Her friend said, And she was a very empathetic person So O course she's going to feel bad for Dave because He's telling her this story about his aunt who's in a coma and not expected to live long Casey would occasionally call Dave, but would hang up quickly These phone calls made Casey's friend Samantha uncomfortable She agreed that They didn't sound like an eighteen year old and noted that he used outdated slang like Rovy Oh, yeah Rovy in the early two thousands I mean, not even you and I were doing that. No. That's not groovy to use groovy at that time I don't even know if like used to be to And now it went from chill to It's sick But I don't even think sick is a thing now. I think it's something different. I still think you're decades behind. I probably am There at Crime Con there was a a girl that came up that was talking and she liked something that was being said. She started using her index finger in her thumb and you know basically clapping them together multiple times And I guess that means like that's good. Okay. Like applauding But it was just so weird for see somebody do that. You know. I'm not going to start that Here's the thing about true crime. It's a constant reminder that life is unpredictable. We can't control everything that happens, does. But we can control how prepared we are and how protected the people we love will be if something does happen. 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Dave also talked to Casey's friend, Jessica One weekend in november two thousand two Jessica was spending the night at Casey's house Casey was on the phone with Dave. and handed it over to Jessica. During the conversation, the girls heard noises outside It sounded like someone walking around. the back of the house They moved a dresser in front of Casey's bedroom door mininutes later. They thought they heard the kitchen floor squeak. Casey told Dave she was afraid someone was in the house. He responded Oh, there's nobody in your house. You're just imagining And the noises stopped after that During that same conversation, Dave told Casey he was going to Arkansas. Because his aunt was deteriorating, he planned to stay in Arkansas until she died. whoever He didn't ask or suggest that he wanted to see her in person The girls tried end the conversation several times But Dave said he had been driving for hours and needed companies On december third, two thousand Casey went to school is normal That morning, she was having a disagreement with her friend, Samantha And we talked about it, right? Samantha couldn't understand Casey's fascination with these boys that she had met online She worried about how freely Casey was giving out her phone number Samantha had told Casey You can't be in love with someone from the internet. Well, Back then, No, but its a lot of Things have changed over the time and people fall in love over the internet all the time now But I get it. I know what she's saying. L you haven't even met this person You don't know anything about them besides what they want you to think about them But and not to mention her age, right? She is a pretty young girl at this point Yeah, you're right. A lot of people are meeting They're soulmaates, peopleeople they end up marrying over the internet. It's a big deal But the interternet has changed a lot in the last twenty five years Oh for sure. I mean, there's still cat fishing going on there at time and probably always will be But there are many ways, know, where you don't have to give out all your information, you don't have to give out your phone number You could do, uh a Zoom call. Yeah or something like that and still keep a lot of your information prie. The day before, Samantha made a comment about a photo of Scott that Casey keppain her locker Samantha said he was hot, but Casey thought she said factat Oh man, you talk about Two girls getting into a fight. Oh yeah, over a misunderstanding of words. then they're done that seen my Daughters do it a number of times B the next morning, The girls's mutual friends had taken sides in the disagreement And Samantha decided to get an adult involved She took a friend with her to talk to school counselor Diana Keller Mrs. Keller, listen to Samantha and then called Casey to her office so the girls could talk alone When she re entered the office, the girls had patched things up Girls do that, you know? They can hate each other One day and be best friends again the next day Yeahep, my wife can go from zero to sixty in no time But then also You know, come back down very quickly. Yeah. and and be de escalate I, on the other hand have a hard time deescalating You harbor things for a little while. For years sometimes Do you h a grudge in some instances? Yes, you are a grudge holder. I am Samantha was worried that Casey would soon be angry because she had told Miss. Keller that Casey was giving out her phone number online And Mrs. Keller promised to talk to Casey about it She asked Casey about it and Casey reassured her that she only gave her number to people approved by her dad But Samantha knew this was a lie. Yeah. And I said it, right? Her dad wasn't happy with her talking to these these guys, especially some of these that were een or about to turn eighteen. Later that day, Mrs. Keller called Casey B to her off and warned her about online dangers. but Casey just didn't seem to have any fear Samanth and Casey met after school. Casey was her usual happy self. But she made a suggestion that later caused her friends to question If she sensed something was going to happen Casey asked if she could sleep over at Samantha's house. Samantha said no because she knew her mom would not allow a school night sleepover Casey also asked her friend, Jessica, Jessica also said no Casey asked a third friend but she received the same It's a bummer when you ask a friend if you can spend the night and they say no I mean, I used to do that here at least Five, seven, maybe twelve times a year And you're like, Shannon won't let you Jan I won't watch you. No First of all, there's no reason have your own place And It just seems as though you're trying to set something up That could go south in a hurry And then I have to sleep on the couch with a weapon just to keep an eye on Keep one eye open and keep your head on us. Exactly But I also like to sleep and I'd rather not stay up all night Casey never explained why she wanted to spend the night with a friend. She didn't seem upset by her friend's rejection She laughed and headed to the bus stop, telling her friends goodbye before she That evening, Casey's dad, Rick, was on patrol and Greenbrier He had a sinus symom. and had almost called in sick His chief told him to take it easy and Rick thought he could make it through a shift which ended at two AM He kept his phone with him so he could check on Casey But he wasn't worried Casey's nineteen year old brother Tim, was still living at home. His friend, Eric Bz, also nineteen was temporarily living with them They weren't around, Casey had her ran who lived on the same street. sounds like a safe place to be right? I mean two adult Boys, not boys really young men, nineteen each of them He said, the aunt was just down the street and this is supposed to be a safe town But here's the thing At six PM. Tim left to go to the University of Central Arkansas Library Eric also had an evening class And then Casey's aunt was at her daughter's basketball game So Casey was truly alone that night That evening she checked the weather. hopeful for a snow day She got ready for bed and then got on the computer to message Scott. Casey told Scott that She was one of the few students chosen to sing in front of the school board Scott congratulated her. while she was messaging Scott Casey was on the phone with Date. who was giving her an update on his aunt He said she was expected to pass Surely And it was said that Casey kept Scott informed of her conversation with Dave She also mentioned her visit to the counselor's office in the Arkansas Democrat Gazette. published excerpts of their conversation Casey said so guess what? I got ecture. Sott A, I'm sorry, baby. Casey on how you could be an eighty year old rapist, LOL Scott said LOL Casey He he And that the picture was your grandson Scott Roback, how many times have you gotten that? She said, I lost count Well, then she's like, do your parents know You talk to people you don't know I was like, yeah, and she was like, well, be careful And don't agree to meet them unless your mom and dad is with you I was like, okay. And she's like, well, remember this little talk I was like, okay Scott said, Uh oh, probably means she's going to talk to you again Casey said, I know Casey didn't know was that while she was messaging Scott A man was outside of her house Watching Scott continued messaging Casey she abruptly stopped responding Scott wrote He he, I'll always be with you, my angel because you're all I want to be with. I put my screens saver as the picture I have in my lock. You're the most beautiful angel in the world, Casey Are you okay sweetie? So these are a series of messages, right that he said with no response Casey finally responded at nine forty one PM. writing yah Y A a which was uncharacteristically bef Yeah It seems strange for somebody that was communicating the way she was up to that point. Yeah, pretty talkative, you know Investigators believe that the intruder snuck into the house and caught Casey off guard. while she was messaging Scott covered her face with a chloroform soaked rack and dragged her through the house into his vehicle Her glasses were knocked off during the struggle And here's Scott, right on the other end His messages became increasingly wordse Are you busy He he, guess so. You there, baby, sweetie, are you okay? Please talk to me When you are ready to talk, sweetie, I'll be here. Are you mad at me, sweetie? So it's just you know, a lot of messages one after the other. He's not getting any response and it sounds like he's getting a little worried. And really for the next thirty five minutes, he continued to frantically message her Then at ten fifteen PM Scott called Casey's house When Casey didn't answer, he messaged her Why isn't anyone answering the phone Scott also emailed Casey's friend, Jessica He said, Jessica, please let this be you something is wrong with Casey Her messenger is still on. And all of a sudden, she laughed during our compact. but didn't log off And I tried to call her and no one answered And we weren't fighting or anything. so I emailed the cops to make sure she's al right. I hope they get it soon I'm going crazy. I don't know what I would do without her Please God let her be okay But Jessica didn't see this email until the following afternoon Betts returned home from class at ten seventeen PM He assumed Casey was already in bed He watched TV and did his laundry for the next hour att eleven thirty PM During one of his trips to the laundry, He noticed Casey wasn't in a room and assumed She was out with friends or family Tim came home a few minutes later. Eric asked where Casey went, Tim said he thought she was home Tim called his father at eleven forty PM Rick said Casey was supposed to be home. He last spoke to her at seven PM He knew something was wrong and told Tim to start calling Casey's friends and checking with their aunt down the street apparent this is where my anxiety would kickking. Yeah. Yeah, I think it did for him as well You know, we talk about mom's intuition a lot. Well, you know, dad's got some too He's also a police officer. right. So he's probably looking at it from, you know, maybe that angle as well drove back to the police department to check in No one knew anything about Casey He contacted the sheriff's office and then headed home When he arrived, He saw that both of Casey's coats were inside O tennis shoes and boots were still by the computer The temperature was in the third And it was raining that night If Casey was going somewhere, She would definitely needeed her shoes and a coat Yeah, it doesn't make any sense for her to leave without those items A deputy arrived at the house at twelve twenty four AM Meanwhile, Tim and Eric were calling Casey's friends trying to see if she had left to meet them By this time, Rick had seen a phone call from Georgia on the caller ID Placed at ten fifteen PM. They also found the messages between Casey and Scott on the computer. Casey's mangled glasses were found under a pile of towels in a recliner The frames were bent and one lens had popped out Casey's beloved dog was also limp Terrible person And you mentioned, you know, the anxiety on Rick's part Okay I think once you find these things, It's got to go even higher. Absolutely. Obviously she needs her glasses, so something has to be going on. and who would hurt a dog And how did the dog get herur the dog trying to defend Casey against an intruder. I mean, a lot of those things could run through your mind Tim was the last one to see Casey when he left the house at six PM He recalled that she was on the computer with her glasses on which she always wore when she was online You know, folks, it's summertime and that changes how I get dressed. You know, I want pieces that are breathable, easy, but still make me look put together. And that's why I just keep coming back to Quins. 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That's QuInCE dot com slash TCATT for free shipping and three hundred and sixty five day returns Quintince d. com slash TCap So you know, you look at all these facts, right? the fact that Casey's glasses were damaged She hadn't taken her shoes or coat And her messages ended abruptly That supported investigators suspicions That she was abducted Scott eventually fell asleep Five hours after his last message He received a message from Casey's account Hey, Scott, are you there This is there As soon as you get this, answer back, please I have got to talk to you Scott replied and explain that Casey just went silent in the middle of their conversation It didn't seem like anything was wrong. And he noted that her last message was sent at nine forty one PM She hadn't talked about going anywhere that night Eric confirmed Scott's real phone number and got his full name, age and address Then Eric asked about Casey's chat with the school counselor and her conversation with D accccording to Scott, He wrote, Well,, her and Sam have been having a fight And they talked about it with the counselor Then Sam told the counselor that she was dating me And she got lectred Don't worry about Dave. He's just a good friend I would have said something if I didn't think he was a good guy, but he's cool He didn't know Dave's last name only that he lived in San Diego. Volunteers spent the night searching the woods surrounding the house In the early morning hours, investigators issued a missing personss alert Casey Later that morning, Casey's friends, Samantha and Jessica called to the guidance counselor's office to talk to the police Samantha later recalled to THV eleven. I want to think that maybe she ran away or something, you know, and that she was going to come back I never in my mind My wildest imagination thought she had been kidnapped because That just doesn't happen And how many times have we talked about a Gibbs You know, in a smaller town a town with relatively low crime, At a certain point in time, a lot of people left their doors unlocked They couldn't fathom You know, like some big time serious crime, like an abduction or a murder Until one happed And then Whatever that was that happened change the whole community. Sure does. right? People start locking their doors, they buy more guns, they're more fearful for their safety. Not so friendly to strangers when they come in town. Yeah That's just the way it happens After the interview, Jessica and Samantha compared notes initially Jessica and Samantha felt certain. Scott was involved in Casey's disappearance But then it occurred to Jessica What if it was day While the girls were being questioned at school FBI agent Jerry Spurgers was searching Casey's bedroom And he found two notes in her trash can. One note read Casey Renee Woody Loves David Leslie Fag The other note said Casey Renee Woody love Scott G The letters were numbered So Casey could compute the percentage of true love in each relationship. thingsings you did back in those days, you know, just like the old Hello O aami thing or what? Oh, where you u pold it out and use your fingers and thumbs to Yeah. I don't even remember what that was called. But then you flipped something up and you asked a question, People write in do you love me? I never did those. I didn't know how to make them, but I don't really remember what they were called. Yeah You were just the, uh reason they were doing them Does Mike love me? Exactly? Yes or no. Will we get married? Yes or no. But I think when you look at these notes pretty obvious that she had some feelings for both of these individuals. What kind of feelings were there she didn't really know them But Let's be honest online It is possible for you to feel like you do really know some. Authorities had already established Scott's identity They still had no idea Dave really was FBI agents found Dave's Yahoo profile the username Jazzman dash Dia Jesma. Almost like jazz hands.es He lived in San Diego and had registered with Yahoo under the name Dave Fagan The same name in Casey's note That morning Casey's friends, Samantha and Jessica asked to talk to the police a second time because they had forgotten to tell the police about Dave. during their first interview They explain that Dave was Casey's ex boyfriend But she still talk to him regularly He hadd been telling Casey that his aunt was dying Jessica also mentioned the November phone call Dave said he was coming to Arkansas to see his aunt Now he said it, right? Dave never said he wanted to see Casey, but Samantha and Jessica felt certain that even if he had Casey would not have agreed to meet him The Arkansas State police got involved and asked the Conway police to canvas motel or suspicious gas Conway, which is south of Greenbork is the biggest city in Faulkner Count Investigators were looking for Dave Fagan David anyone with the initials DF or anyone from California They want a man hu Dives found a California man named David Fuller registered at the Motel six. He arrived on december second and was scheduled to stay for seven days. He asked housekeeping to enter his room There's a sign Is it? Be I don't like housekeeping to enter my room either And it's not because I have a body in there or something I just don't want to take the chance that they're gonna to steal my laptop or steal my stuff. You're like, Don't worry about the sheets, towels, I got it Well, especially if I'm standing at a motel sick. P bringing your own sheets and towels afterfter I shine the black light for sure. You and your black light It's like a Jackson Pollock painting in here You're no longer around my vehicle with that either, by the way The manager at the hotel told the police fuller was angry When he couldn't connect to the internet from his room The manager opened the door to Fuller's room Inside, police found a suitcase, still packed and a laptop on a table bed had not been slept in Investigators also discovered that on december second Dave Fuller Rnted a silver minivan for seven days from the Enterprise in Conway An employee recalled that Fuller was fidgety and repeatedly interrupted the paperwork process go outside and smoke The employee made a note of Fuller's California license plate and motel room number His cell phone number was listed in the paperwork That afternoon, investigators learned that The number Casey had been called Was Dave Fuller's sulfer He officially became the main suspect in Casey's abduction A description of Fuller's minivan was sent out to the police and the media An investigators soon confirmed that Dave was David Leslie Fuller forty seven year old married father of two. fromom California There we have it. Predator Fty seven years old masquerading as a seventeen or eighteen year old. I mean, what? possible reason could someone have for doing that didn't have some kind of twisted aspect to it. Right Be I can't think of one Nothing but bad intentions But here's my thing, right If you're the investigators you are Casey's dead and you find all this out I mean Especially her dad, where is your anxiety level at that point? through the roof. Yeahah I don't know that it could get any higher Investigators subpoenaed the rental car paperwork And they got Fuller's credit card number His credit history showed that Earlier that day, his card was charged by Gardmart Stor and Conway He hadd traveled to Conway a month earlier to rent a unit Investigators suspected he might be holding Casey The police received a report from a caller who said he was following a minivan that match in the description downown University Avenue in Little Rock Police hoped Fuller was scared in Flams and had left Casey alive in the storage unom trying to be positive. Yeah, I mean, you have to be, right at this point A detective and two FBI agents arrived at the storage facility just after five PM They were led to unit three and thirteen The door was not padlocked And the latch was unfastened The detective slowly lifted the door inside the unit was a silver minivan with the enginine still running And then all of a sudden A shot rang out The detective and the agents dove for cover and called for back for the next three hours laaw enforcement waited. unsure if Casey and Fuller were alive Just before eight thirty PM, a SWAT team entered the unit Day Fuller was dead body was at the back of the storage unit. He'd shot himself in the head with a nine millimeter which was still in his hand a few feet away. In the back of the van was Casey's bot She was on her back. with her wrists and ankles chained to the four corners The van's floor Fuller had removed the two back seats. to make space for her bt. Casey had been raped and shot in the head There was a half empty bottle of chloroform and a purple rack next to her head. And to me, Gibbs, this is heartbreaking But it's also the worst possible outcome Oh yeah. Yeah. it is. Number one for investigators and especially for the family You're hoping to find Caseiaa Well They don' Unfortunately, She was murdered Than perpetrator takes his own life Yeah, because he's afraid to deal with the consequences were going to come down. Oh, absolutely, right? He's a chicken shit. He is. I' shit. Yeah. I think that's evident, but what it does is then It doesn't allow for you know, them to interrogate him find out all the reasons why and all that. you just lose a lot And then also you don't get to convict this guy You don't get justice in the sense that A jury of his peers finds him guilty ' G got to be a little sadness in that part too. Now, some people might say, well, he's dead I'm good with that, but I would Say by and large, most families probably don't think that They want to see actual justice. Not the perpetrator ending their life before they have to face it Yeah, they should be able to face people that they caused harm to The medical examiner later concluded that Casey had likely been unconscious from the time she was abducted until she was killed Fuller had been in the storage unit since the night before throughout the day He turned on the van to warm himself. You listen to radio reports A knew the police were after The security box at the facility indicated Fuller arrived at ten fifteen PM On december third whichich meant he had driven directly there after abducting Casey He left on foot around seven thirty AM The following morning to buy water and cigaretes. at a nearby convenience store He was gone for just twenty one minutes. And my thought is He can't risk taking the van out because they're looking for the van Right? Yeah, he can only go out on foot at this point. detectives were unsure of Casey's exact time of death In the aftermath, authorities heavily investigated Fuller's background He grew up in Salt Lake City and was raised in the LDS church After high school graduation, He played guitar and rock band. and was no longer interested in church He got married at nineteen, but the marriage fell apart Chime is fee free banking built for you. They are not like the stuffy traditional old banks, charging you overdraft and monthly fees. Chime does things differently. They also have thousands of fee free ATMs. Why in the world would you pay to get your own money? Chime is rated five stars by USA Today for customer service They have real humans twenty four seven. And I mentioned that Chime is different. They have Spotany, which lets you overdraft up to two hundred dollars fee free. 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Optional products and services may have fees or charges. in the early eighties bandmate's girlfriend introduced them to her sister, Sally Sally had also married and divorced young She was ready to settle down and have kids. Sally and Dave got married in nineteen eighty three and moved to Salt Lake City Sally worked as a commercial artist for an ad agency Dave was a tow truck driver In nineteen eighty nine Dave joined the Navy SB They moved around the country. over the next several years and had two children They later settled in La Mesa, California And Dave got a job at a car dealership Okay I mean, it all sounds Pretty normal does O the outside But by May of two thousand one, Sally was deeply unhappy And she wanted out of the marriage. In their early years together Sally and Dave did a lot of social drinking which mellowed Dave out When he stopped drinking so often, His temper became unpredictable Dave would brood, he would explode. Sally was afraid to dig into his past to see what triggered him He always told her I don't want to go there Everything was fine. I had a good child During their marriage, Dave was arrested for exposing himself to two young girls He told Sally that he just stopped to ask them for directions And they ran off screen. but he never tried to defend himself in court. He skipped his court date. and paid a fine for indecent exposure because he probably pulled you know what out and That's why they ran Yeah, but what's he going to tell his wife? No, I didn't do that. I just stopped to ask for directions Also, why are you asking two young girls for directions? Exactly. That seems strange Sally noticed that Dave was secretive and spend hours on the computer He walked alone in the neighborhood at night so he could talk on his cell phone. But at a certain point, Sally no longer asked questions But I do want to talk about one thing before we get too far away from it You know It's interesting that it was said that you know, drinking kind of mellow pave out But when he wasn't drinking That's when his temper became unpredictable Because I think for a lot of people, it's the other way around And when you when they drink is when Maybe their temper can get out of control But in this case, it's the opposite. Yeah. I thought that was a little strange, but maybe it's not strange. Maybe it's normal for some people Maybe when he's not drinking He's thinking clearer thoughts and those thoughts are not good You could you could have hit on something there. And then the other thing is at a certain point You know, Sally's not asking any questions. Well, she's not getting any answers And She's also deeply unhappy. She wants out of the marriage So does she stop kind of caring right at a certain point Yeah, if you're going to go off and do your own thing, I'm just going stop asking me about it And maybe she's Glad he's going out walking around instead of being at the house being grumpy around her yelling at her or whatever. That could be absolutely true In june twenty twelve Dave took the kids to visit his parents He and Sally got into an argument. And he brought up divorce while they were gone She attended a divorce workshop And when he returned, She had done everything but fun. She thought Dave would be happy, but he was furious Still, Sally was done with the marriage, she filed for divorce in July If you don't want to get a divorce bring up getting a divorce during an argument because if the other person has been thinking about it Man you were just opening up the door. Oh yeah It's like I tell my wife. My next wife is not going to treat me like this. And that goes over very well, I'm sure. I usually do it in front of you. just because I know she's not going to come after me with you here. Yeah. I don't do it when We're by ourselves That's smart because I don't want to face the wrath Be you would. And she knows I'm kidding, but she for some reason still doesn't like it Well, you know, that's just one thing you don't tease about You would think after thirty years of marriage, she would know my sense of humor Yeah, I still can't get your sense of humor either, so I don't know. Yeah, not many people can In August of that year, CPS investigated a report that Dave was taking showers with his seven year old daughter The agency got involved. when Sally started asking questions Investigators ultimately concluded nothing happened. But Sally was uneasy And frankly, I'm uney with it too I get it, parents take showers D kids when they're very, very little Now I would think most of the time it's dads and sons, moms and daughters By seven years old Yibbs I don't think a dad should be taking a shower with his daughter. No, that time there's no reason to be doing scrub a dub dub. the rest of it goes. Now, you know, if you want to sit next to the tub and help them or whatever, but Being in the shower together First of all, there's not a lot of room There's no coverage of any body part. Yeah So to me, that's a that's a no go. He's a grown man. He should not be naked in the shower with is k No, absolutely Dave moved into an apartment But one night he showed up at the house and demanded Sally let him in She refused and he pushed her aside barged in They argued and Sally locked herself in the bedroom with the kids. Dave used a screwdriver to pry open the door Sally called the police And Dave was arrested for spousal abuse. Then Dave lost his job. bosses cited a lack of productictivity for his firing But they suspected Dave was visiting pornography sites on company computers Well, you're on those foreign sites, man. Time' going to get away from you and Clearly, he was not being productive the way they wanted him to be productive and time getting away from you means it makes it harder to be productive. Yeah. But let's talk about, you know The two thousand. Right? Today In most companies, you can't even sniff those types of websites. No. There's filters, there's blocks, there's all this stuff But in two thousand, it was a little bit more wild wild west like. Very true I remember, you know, what was it two thousand? to two thousand three. When you started rexwest. com I mean, it was it really was a free for all no rules type of thing and it was good for you. It was a few good years there, you know before they came in and start blocking some of that stuff. And then the IRS came and knocking and It all went down and tumbled quickly You didn't report all those donations you were getting? Well, it was some Lw was a little gray Sally and Dave sold their house in September She hoped the divorce would be finalized by the end of two thousand two Dave called his mother on december third of that year. During their conversation, he seemed fine And he mentioned that Sally was in Utah visiting family He asked if Sally brought the kids over to see her Dave then became emotional He told his mom he loved her. somethingomething he never said first And then he hung up And neighbors noticed that Dave left his home shortly before december third without giving a reason or a destination And I think you have to look at Dave's life at this point in time It is spiraling downward very quickly. Ver unstable. Right? hisis marriage has fallen apart. He's lost his job The divorce is finalized Let's not forget he was caught for indecent exposure Yeah And He was on the computer at all hours We can only surmive that during that period of time He was in these cham rooms Yeah, I think either in these chat rooms or You know, Get his porn addiction Time in FBI agents in California searched Fuller's apartment And they found frame photos of Casey near his computer He also had a photo of Casey's friend Samantha and a picture of one of her other friends His Yahoo buddy list included the names of multiple green Brier kits Investigators learned that Fuller had been in chat rooms for at least two years and was targeting three other girls Casey's a. The first girl lived in Michigan She met Dave online in two thousand They talked every day He was always a gentleman And they talked about things like school friends and family He asked for her number, but she said no And she refused his offers to fly her out to California Dabe never learned her real name scary when you think about it, you know, I mean He's going to keep trying until someone bites. Wellow, this is the room R? Sometimes it can be a long process to get someone's guard down The other thing that I find very interestnteresting is It's not like he's focused on one person. He's casting a wide net. Yeah. He's going after a bunch of girls in this age range, Almost too me, Gibbs, seeming like he's waiting for someone to and let their guard down. Yeah I think he's testing them to see if there's a possibility that he can and have them eventually come to him somehow You know, like you said, by grooming them over time. Yeah, no doubt it's grooming Now I don't know if we called it grooming in two thousand, two thousand one We certainly do today and we know a lot more about. The second girl lived in doubt She met him online in march two thousand one She had never given him her address But in march two thousand two Flowers from Dave showed up at her house. Her father was angry And that was the end of her corpondence. That dad probably ripped that computer out of the wall Yeah, maybe third girl lived in Pennsylvania after making sure she was safe, Agents didn't press for more details. Fuller's DNA was not linked to any other crimes in the national database Investigators learn that Fuller made his first trip to Arkansas october eleventh, two thousand two He flew into Little Rock, rented a car and drove to C No one is sure what he did during this trip, but Police believe he spied on Casey and watched her home On october fifteenth, two thousand two He sent an email to Alltle commommunications I'm planning an extended trip to Arkansas. And the ISP I'm using doesn't have a local dial up number there Are you an actual ISP? And if so How do I get software and set up an account to use your server O november second, Fuller pota gun On the fourth, he returned to Arkansas. Again rentning a car and driving to Conway Two days later, he rented a unit at Gard Smart Storage facility He told one of the onsite managers that he traveled the country buying cars and needed a place to temporarily store vehicles On november eighth, he extended his stay at a motel. Authorities suspected that he planned to abduct Casey during this trip. but something stopp When he returned to California He purchased chain, duct tape and zip ties from his local home Depot He got chloroform from a chemical supply company D didn't know it was that easy to get chloropine Thinking back then it was, I don't know if it is today. I hope it's not. I don't know what all the leegal uses for chloroform are, but I would assume that ninety, whatever percent of the population really doesn't need access to chloropoform. Yeah, I'm thinking the same thing And no, if you find some, we cannot do a test with it. to see how I respond. Oh my gosh, that would be awesome on Patreon though. Just think about it be like the horrible bosses scene when Jennifer Aniston puts him out. I would take all kinds of weird pictures. Oh yeah I wake up hours later, not knowing. What do you think But here's the thing, Gibbs, police believe Casey was the quote unquote perfect victim because She was trusting. And she gave Fuller her real name address, phone number and photos of herself He gained her trust and sympathy the fake story about his aunt And we said it earlier on, I think she even gave him photos of some of her friends In two thousand three, Fuller's ex wife Sally spoke to the Arkansas Democrat Gazette said She now recognized the red flags she missed Dave's late nights wandering the neighborhood His anger when she suggested moving the computer out of his bedroom his insistence on separate internet passwords and emails. And the framed photo of a young girl in his apartment. That should have been a Red flag, right? I would think so, but you know, they're broken up by that point. Yeah. So I don't know No I think today it's Pretty common for people to have Separate emails seeparate password. thingsings were a little different back in the days of dialogue I think most people just had one service Yeah, called American Online AL. Yeah, I think it was America online, not American online. but yeah, you're correct. Remember they would send you like F CD's a week. Oh, I know. tryrying to get you to sign up. I mean, every day you walked out to the Mailbox, there was another CD Leave me alone, man. I already have AOL. Stop sending me CD Yeah qu sending those to me. I'm going to sign up a Copy sererve Sally said about her reaction to his arrest. I was not as surprised as I could have been because of how I saw him deteriorate, I guess I had this feeling. He's going to crash He's just going to crash And maybe she just didn't know exactly how he was going to crash. Yeah. but she felt like, you know, he was It wasn't going to be good, but I'm sure she had no idea it was gonna be this bad I wouldn't think so. I probably just saw somebody spiraling out of control and wanted to stay clear Casey's father, Rick Woody allowed federal and state authorities to share Casey's story in a nationwide effort. to train law enforcement and educate parents. He told the Democrat Gazette I can't let this be meaningless I've got to make it do somebody some good I mean That's great because maybe By doing that, you save Another girl's life. And in a way Casey saves another girl's life. Yes. Right? If you're the family I think a lot of the families, that's how they look at You know, if we do something