The Life and Disappearance of Maureen Brainard-Barnes

Hello everyone and welcome to episode five hundred of the True Crime All the time podcast I'm Mike Ferguson with me as always is my partner in True Cime, Mike Gibson, Gibby, how are you? Doing good, man. about you? I'm doing great. Yeah For those watching on video, you can see our new sign in the studio. Very nice. that a lot of people have been asking for. finally figured out a good place to do it that could replicate kind of the logo font that we have. Okay, you can say I handmade it in my garage. Oh yeah Gibby blew it. He blew all that glass in his garage Oh, All right, buddy, let's go ahead and give our Patreon shout outs. We had Brianna Jeanette. What's going on, Janette? Eron Groff. He is Earon? Lindsseay Chandler. Thanks Lindsey. Meghgan and Teddy. What's going on? Megan and Teddy? Ainsley. Hey Ainsley. And last but not least, Robin Jennings, The Jennings. The Jennings. And then if we go back into the vault This week we selected Don Park. Thanks, DP. Love some DP. Yeah We have a brand new episode out right now on True Cime All the Time Unsolved where we're talking about eighteen year old Justin Gates He was last seen outside of a bar He was just a few months into his freshman year of college And this is a a fascinating case because there are multiple people who have kind of said that they were involved in his murder in some way or another It's almost like so many people have inserted themselves The water is too muddy Yeah is what it makes it seem like But I feel like It's all going to get connected. Yeah and come together here I do too. Sooner than we think. I think this one will be solved All right buddy, so we're doing something a little different We're doing a big case for five hundred or Gilgo Beach, Long Island serial killer. It's known by many names. And it's a huge case that most people know about But there's a lot of info It's going to take us four parts. Yeah. We're doing them all on both audio and video And we're putting them out Sunday, Thursday, Sunday, Thursday. So people don't have to wait as long That's how we roll. That's how we're rolling now. Yeah So let's dive right in. Okay Are you ready to get into this five hundredth episode of Truerime All time Think about that for a second. It's hard. F hundred episodes we've been doing It's hard to believe that we Coming from where we did when we started, that we are now on episode five hundred. I think how long it took you to finally pull your weight? Yeah start doing my part of the show Yeah. So the case of one missing woman led the police to multiple bodies on the south shore of Long Island invvestigation started when a woman named Shannon Gilbert called nine hundred and eleven in the early morning hours of may first, twenty ten Shannon was panicked, telling the operator that someone was after her But by the time police arrived, she was gone In december twenty ten An officer was searching for Shannon on Long Island's Gilgo beach He didn't find Shannon But he did find the body of a woman went missing in July two thousand nine And then just days later Three more missing women were found They became known as the Gilgo for You know, we talk about this from time to time. where Police are searching for one thing But they find something else. They're searching for a car in a body of water. they find four more cars, not the one they're looking for Exactly. But four other cars and you got to figure out, okay What are these cars doing here is a little different because they're searching for a woman And they find another woman dead Yeah, and then they find A few more bodies. Yes Searches of Gilgo Beach and the surrounding area continued in the spring of twenty eleven Six more bodies were found. and none of them We're Sannon Yopperer Now we're up to ten bodies but still haven't found the person They initially set out to find Oh just happens to I'm sure the name of My wife, that's true and spells it exactly the same and I hardly ever see it spelled this way. Two As An A at the end instead of an O. And that is unique. Yeah, And that's exactly how my wife spells her name But it turned out, Gibbs that one of the victims was a female toddler And her mother's remains were also found that spring So I think you know, if you're investigators And if you're the public as some as a whole, this starts to come out Yeah, if you're Investigators you're concerned, right? did you have a a possible serial killer and you got to figure out what's going on. I think if you're the public It's the same, but for a different reason. you're going to be scared. Yeah, you know, and rightfully so Because who's next And who is this serial killer suppupposed seller serial killer Is he living right next door to me? Is he terrorizing Part of the community Disturbingly, some of these victims partial rem had already been found before One as early as nineteen ninety six The Suffolk County pololice have called the Gilgo Beach case one of the most consequential homicide investigations in the history of Long Island In twenty twenty two A task force identified an architect named Rex Human as the Long Island serial killer based on DNA, cell phone, and a mountain of other evidence. Yeah Again, like I said, this is a very well known case People have heard of Goggo Beach murders. They've heard of The Long Island serial killer For the longest time, it was you know, up there as far as the most recognizable Yeah Unsolved cases Yeah And then obviously when they identify this rex Humanun kind of exploded the true crime world because people had been talking about this case, studying it for so long You know, it was almost like Joseph D'Aangelo being caught as the The East Area rapist Golden State killer. It was just front page news. Big time news. Still as big time news So in part one of the Long Island serial killler episodes, We'll cover how the investigation began The discovery of the bodies on Gilgo Beach. the lives of the Gilgo four and the early suspect profile twenty three year old Shannon Gilbert was an aspiring actress from New Jersey Who did escort work via Craigslist Okay the old Craigslist. Yeah, I'm assuming Craiglist is still out there I think it is I do not think they have The same Sex ads if that's I'm saying that term correctly that they used to. Okay you know, in the past, it was a big place, I think for escorts to advertise and There was a lot of meat you know male looking for female. I don't think they do all that stuff anymore. Okay Tonone it down now, I guess. Well, because I think it started out as more of a I have something for sale or yeah, you know I got a job or something like that, but it's slowly or maybe not slowly, it quickly probably morphed into ninety seven percent Sax, I think Sex classified for sex. Yeah, but I think they've gotten away from it I don't know I've been on there in long On april thirtieth, twenty ten, Shannon left her home in New Jersey to meet up with her driver, Michael Patt in Manhattan Michael drove Shan around the city that night. It was slow until midnight When Shannongh got a call from a client named Joseph Brew lived on Oak Beach in Long Island It was a ninety minute drp Brewer wanted to hire Shannon for a few hours which would make it worth the long trip. So Long trip to go for just a couple hours of work, but It is, but if You're making what? I have no idea and escort could or did charge in twenty ten. five hundred, a thousand dollars an hour Maybe whatever she was getting was worthw while for her H ninety minutes each way. Yeah. Shannon was in Brw's house for a few hours while Michael waited outside At four fifty one AM, Joseph Brewer tapped on Michael's window tellelling him Shannon wouldn't leave Michael said in a twenty eleven interview that Shannon looked paranoid and scared He told her they should go back Michael reported that Joe grabbed Cham and she freaked out She made a frantic call to nine hundred and eleven from inside Joseph Brewer's house just before five A. The following is a partial transcript of that call that was published by forty eight hours So you have a operator saying stay police Shannon said, Yeahah, there's somebody after me People are trying to kill me. According to NBC, Brewer was heard saying at one point, comeome on, let's go. all go outside Shannon said, Please get me out of here Shannon couldn't specify where she was, but she did say she was on Long Island Shannon fled from Joe's house during her call And her screams drew the attention of neighbor Guskcolltte. Pl he told forty eight hours It was like five in the morning I was in the bathroom shaving All of a sudden I heard screaming out here and banging on that door yelling, help me, help me He opened the door and asked Shannon what was wrong. All she would say was, Help me, help me help. Theory. And it's such a strange kind of interaction Who is she afraid of Who is she saying are these people who are trying to kill her And then at one point She says, Mike get me out of here. Yeah. We just said Michael's out waiting in the car there's a lot of strangeess going. Yeah. There definitely a lot of Moving pieces with this So she goes next door, she's trying to get this neighbor's attention Shannon was still on the phone. with nine hundred and eleven when Cllti opened the door. So This interaction was recorded He also called nine one one According to Kleti He said, when I said to her, I called the police. sit down in that chair They're on their way. She just looked at me And then she just ran out the door Very strange. Yeah, this whole thing is strange It's almost as if One, She is either really scared that someone has threatened her or is going to kill her, has said they were going to hurt her O She's on drugs, which is a possibility. S. Or I think the third possibility is she's experiencing some kind of mental health issue Sary either way. Yeah. I mean, all three are scary just because of the way that that she's acting. He noticed Shannon's driver Michael Pack driving a black SUV in the area. He said, I could see a car came and stopping, coming a little bit and stopping He spotted Shannon hiding under his boat And then all of a sudden she ran out from under it The driver followed her. Pilltte yelllded at him to stop, but he followed her Shannon ran to the home of Colltti's neighbor Barbara Brunnan alsoso called nine hundred and eleven Brennan said Some woman is knocking on my door. She says she's in danger. I'm not letting her in. you have A lot of activity going on there with the neighbor in the neighborhood, right? And you have I'm sure the police are on the other side going. going on in this neighborhood meane mean, on the other end of the call? Yeah. Yeah. Well, But also You know, let's Look at it from perspective She doesn't know any of these people So she is going to random individuals' houses and knocking on the door. And the first guy says Hey, come on in, sit down. I've called the police. I mean he he seems to have been Very non threatening, very inviting u as far as you know, like a safe person that you could trust, but For whatever reason she bolts And then she runs to another neighbor's house At one point, she's hiding under his boat It's just hard to make sense of. reallyally is And that's why you know, it kind of takes me down the path of drug use or a mental health issue Be I mean, let's face it, some of this stuff just doesn't seem normal When the police arrived at five forty AM Shannon was gone They assume she left the area with her driver, Michael Pat Let's talk about this this woman who said, hey, I'm not letting her in I don't blame you First of all, it's Between five and six in the morning Yeah So You better have a damn good reason of knocking on my door that early First of all, I'm probably not going wake up. My wife is, and then she's going to say, Hey, somebody's knocking on the door, you better go check it out. I am not going to be a happy camper. No, you will not be. But on the flip side of that is It's going to be hard for me to really take a chance. that someone is telling me the truth and that they need saving. Because how many times have we seen like a real ploy being used in that manner to get into somebody's house and then You know, things go sideways in a hurry. I mean like the movie Strangers. That's That's a great example Again I've said it a million times. I want to trust people Of course. I want to trust a person who's broken down on the side of the road I want to trust a person who knocks on my door but can I complete I think the answer is no Today today Maybe in nineteen fifties Pleasantville, maybe where nothing went wrong, you know, but Today, the world is it can be a brutal place, a sinister place. But in total, Shannon's nine hundred and eleven call lasted over twenty one minutes portions of that, they were silent. Like nothing was going on According to former Suffolk County Chief of Detectives, Dominiic Veron Pleice could not respond to Shannon's call because She couldn't tell them where she was. They need a location to Nowhere to go Now, I've always thought that They could kind of trace where the calls were coming from. I always thought so too. Maybe that wasn't possible at this point in time. It's twenty ten though. It's not nineteen ninety so. I really don't know Maybe it differs from place to place, what type of You know, equipment they have, notot sure. How long you're on the phone with them, maybe? I don't know. Well, twenty one minutes I think is long enough. that is a long time. If you have the ability 'Cause like in the movies, it's like, just keep them on the line for what thirty, sixty seconds. Something like that. That's what we need And the person always knows that they got to hang up before that amount time. Beron told forty eight Hours the complain operators asking, well, where are you And she just kind of ignores that where are you question and keep saying someone's after She sounds Not very coherent, not very rational F statement. It is, but what is that statement again kind of Be you And to me, it's thinking Drugs. mental health issue Yeah And that's what you think of if someone's not coherent. They're not acting rational. It could be like one of those things, right? Beron added, it almost seems like she's in some type of psychotic state or in some type of drug induced stup So I think's he's thinking the exact same thing Barone explained that the local police who responded to Gus Cllti's call We're not aware of Shannon's And so That's interesting R? They're both calling the same place, right Probably talking to two different operators And if it's all kind of happening at the you know, same time Maybe the connection iss not made guess, maybe there location, the call centers is too big You know, maybe they're not in the same. Even if they were right next to each other Yeah Maybe they don't put it together, hh Yeah, maybe someone stands up I got something really crazy going on over here and I think everything they handle is on the chaotic side of things now it may not Not everything's like this, but I'm sure it's not a doull job Let put it that way. I mean, we used You know, we do. we have a A couple listeners that are Oh yeah, dispatchers. Dispatchers and they had some pretty good stories sure they have a lot of good. probably some they can't legally tell. right is my is my thought According to forty eight hours Shannon's call was transferred to the New York State police when she couldn't give her location And it took almost a month. police to link her call to the missing persersons report becausecause it was filed in New Jersey. Wow, Okaykay. So I mean, I think, you know, that that's just a jurisdictional thing I don't know that there's any malfeasance or bad police work there. it could just be, you know, how things work Shannon's sister Sherry Gilbert didn't learn she was missing for two days when Channon's boyfriend called her to say She didn't come home Shannon's sisters, Sherry and Sarah been worried about her everver since she told them she was doing scor I mean, it's not the safeest job, that's for sure. It's not. It is obviously a profession that you and I talk about frequently It comes up in many cases because Sadly Sex workers are often targeted and have been targeted for a very long time by killers and serial killers because they are in a vulnerable situation. Yeah. in a lot of wayays Number one, Sometimes they're getting into cars with people they don't know which is just almost I hate to say it, but Perfect scenario for a predator to strike They're vulnerable. They are a vulnerable target. Yes. there's just no doubt about it. Shannon had also been diagnosed with bipolar disorder and struggled with depression and mood swing When her sisters expressed their worry She said nothing would happen Well, let's face that nobody thinks anything's gonna bad is going happened though On the flip side of that is you don't want to walk around all day constantly thinking something bad is going to happen to you. You don't want to manifest something. No. And you don't want to ruin your life by just being so worried about it all the time Cherry Gilbert told Fortty eight Hours that Shannon was trying to make a better life. saying, My sister had other dreams You know, she wanted to be a singer an actress She was pursuing that, and she was also going to school to be a writer. she's heavily involved in bettering herself and wanting to go to that acting profession Singing, entertainment It's like what we call the Mike Gibson route. Yeah AKA Rex Wes. I too have started writing. Yeah Um You know, this is the thing and and I I understand be a legal part of seex work. Yeah. And why a lot of people look down on it But it is also true that There have been people mainly women that have used it to get through a period in their life to get on to bigger and better things. Sure. I don't think there's any doubt about it veryer much like Dpping. I mean, there there are people who have stripped to put their way to make their way through college. some that still strip at senior facilities. Yeah Even though they don't have to, they just like it. They just like it Yeah, so I try not to be too judgmental about stuff like that. Now I get it, some things are illegal and they just are illegal. Shannon's family filed a missing persons report as soon as they found out But they didn't receive any news. So they drove to Oak Beach to start looking for themselves Shaman had been missing for eight days long time. It is a long time. and I think if you're the family and this is something that that you and I go back and forth with You know, a certain point you're going to do whatever you have to do. Yeah. And that's startart your own searches hire a private investigator Especially if you if police aren't really communicating or you may not feel as though A, they're doing what they should be or B, they're getting anywhere really think about it historically Please used to not really put in the effort for sex workers As a, you know Somebody else You know, that's part of the community. Yeah. I mean, that's I think it's been pretty well documented. Yeah Now not every jurisdiction or every department, but Over the years, I think it's been pretty well that that has happened. So the family, you know, they spoke to a dozen people Just trying to put together a timeline And they learn that Shannon and her driver left the city shortly after midnight on may first, twenty ten to go to a gated community in Oak Beach The police did search for Shannon. But months pass with no sign of Investigators looked into the man who hired her that night This guy Joseph Brewer. Joseph told forty eight Hours. He solicited Shannon online, but not for sex He also didn't know why Shannon became afraid because he never harmed her He just wanted her to leave his house and brought the driver inside to get her to leap The last time he saw her She was running out of his house to his neighbor, Gus Colltte He's like, Hey, I got her out of the house. I was done at that point Yeah, I'm also, you know, I always like the I did solicit Channon online. Yeah But it wasn't for sex You know, that's the whole escort right part I just wanted some company Nobody pays that much money for company Just want to have some conversation, you know I'm a talk No, I don't know. Do you need somebody to escort you to a dinner Yeah, maybe if you're lonely, are you going to pay thousands of dollars for that? Most people don't So he can say that and maybe that's the truth. I can't disispute it one hundred percent, but I would be shocked There wasn't Sex in the in the planning of the I mean, it definitely would be the minority of that. Yes, scenario. Now I get it, he can't just come out and say Yeahah, I solicited her for sex because that is a crime. Eactly. So much better to say, yeah, I just lonely. I need an escort quote unquote Yeah When Colltti saw Michael Pack, he said he was looking for When Collette told Pack he called the police, Pack said You shouldn't have done that And that's an interesting Ste Be you can take it a couple of different ways, right? Yeah Is he worried that she's going to get in trouble because she's an escort And she's technically doing something that's illegal Or is it more sinister es't have another is there another reason? I mean could, it could In a text of four to eight hours, Pack said he never touched her and had nothing to do with Channon's disappearance Pack and Brewer past polygraphs and were not considered suspects So you can make of all of that what you will And especially the polygraph part depending on how much stock you put into polygraphs I always like it when people say, well I didn't have anything to do with it. Yeah What else are you going to say? We certainly are going to raise your hand and say, Well I had something to do with it But I'm not telling you anything more. Yeah, I mean, I get it. They have to report it that way because that's what he said, but It's like, u It's so What's on the nose, I guess. But he did pass pass a polygraph and police said they Neither he nor Brewer were considered suspects. I mean, that's somewhat telling, right? Yeah, I'm sure they looked into it There just wasn't anything there Dr. C. Peter Hackett, a resident of Oak Beach and a retired emergency services doctor inserted himself into the case when he called Shannon's mother Mary Gilbert on may third, twenty ten He ran a halfway house for people who wanted to get off the street and claim that Shannon was there She left with her driver. And he said he was worried about However When Shannon's sisters came to Oak Beach He denied Ty and said You'd never seen Chance. So bizarre. Well, everything is bizarre, right? from her actions and now you've got Doctor allegedly making the call and then later saying he didn't make the call In letters to forty eight hours could admit it that he called Mary G but said it was later in the week And he did so at the request of friends who were searching for Shannon He wrote, at no time. Did I suggest I had ever met her or render medical care of any sort to her He also denied seeing Shannon when speaking to the press Why would Mary say that's what he. I don't know I don't know. Well what would be in it? like what would be her motive? Yeah, exactly. Forre saying he said that. I have no idea She had a friend record her confrontation with Dr. Hackett who claimed I never saw her, I never met her. All this stuff about a rehab or something I don't have a reab I don't do Fty eight hours obtained her phone record which confirmed that Hackid did make a call to her On may third, twenty ten I mean, it's not making him look great. No because most of the evidence is kind of backing her story up Fortty eight hours went to Hacket's home to get answers about why he called Gilbert and then changed his story. He said because I couldn't remember my story Seriously personers gets a lot of phone Yeah, you know what though? I would think you would remember This story I'm with you, I think If it's just a run of the mill everyday kind of phone call Easy to forget. If it's a phone call that is attached to something that is then front page news and all over the media You're probably going to tend to remember that. Yeah. That's what I think it forormmer Suffolk County Chief of Detectives, Dominiic Veron noted that Packett wasn't a suspect Yeah, the calls were strange, but not out of character because Berone said, he's an individual who likes to get involved Some call him a storyteller an exaggerator We certainly believe that he may have called to offer his assistance. I mean, clearly he wanted to insert himself into the case right or wrong. Yeah, but he also should be probably be more straightforward on what that conversation was and how it went. Well, a lot of people like to insert themselves into cases, right? I mean, that's that's just a fact sometometimes killers like insert themselves into cases that they're responsible for. Yeah I'm not saying that's him, but there's also people who just want to be in the thick of it Right? Because it's Fascinating or it's interesting It's just strange for me to you know, for kind of a medical professional to get involved and then get caught in this lot because Then you have to answer the question, well, why are you lying You know, is it just because you wanted to be in the mix Or is there, you know, a more sinister reason for it Searches continued throughout the summer of twenty ten, but were unsuccessful. On december eleventh of that year, an officer in his canine We're conducting another search for Shannon Gilbert along Ocean Parkay at Gilgo Beach, Long Island. The dog gave an indication the shoulder of Ocean Park and turned out to be an intact skeleton wrapped in Berlin. At first Everyone assumed it was Shannon Gilbert. In fact, police called Marary to tell her they had found Shannon acccording to the Gone Girls docu series But that assumption turned out to be wrong Shannon had a titanium plate in her jaw Due to past injuries from an abusive boyfriend It was soon determined that the human remains were not That's a big mistake Tw call a loved one saying, Hey You's got her Yeah Yeah, without getting the confirmation first because you talk about getting someone's up and not hopes that they're dead, but that I guess they're There's now finally a resolution. Yeah, I'm with you. It's just a big blunt Why make the call unless you're one hundred percent positive The remains were identified as twenty four year old Melissa Birell We went missing in july two thousand Nine On december thirteenth, Suffolk County Police found three more sets of human remains within a quarter mile of the first discovery twenty two to thirty three feet from the edge of Ocean Park The victims were identified as twenty five year old Marine Brainard Barnes. twenty two year old Megan Waterman. And twenty seven year old Amber Costella These victims became known as the Gilgo four cause of death all was listed as homicidal Now let's take a step back, right all found within a quarter mile The first discovery two thirty three feet off the edge of this roadway Not far apart from each other. No, and not far off the road. No So there's a couple of things that, you know kind of jump out to me Number one is I think Pice stumbled onto somebody's dumping ground But number two is It seems like if you were really trying to be careful And I always have to be careful. I'm not trying to give tips to like want to be serial killer. R R. But just kind of thinking logically Do you want to go a little bit further the road I would. I would want to go Further off the road I don't want to Face then, you know, the bododyies further apart from each other And I certainly wouldn't want them You know close to the on the road. Yeah, that was my thought. Now we do know that a lot of times killers They like to stay in the same kind of geographical region for whatever they feel comfortable In that area Maybe that they've done it before. they weren't seen. They're not going to be seen this time It just seems like very close to the road. twenty two, thirty three feet, that's not a long distance maybe, you know, it's it's a u an area that they feel like they can go back and revisit. easy without Looking suspicious posossible. Yeah, you know, mayaybe they felt that was an Another reason why the bodies had to be dumped there Its absolutely fs Maureen Brainnard Barnes was the first of the Gilgo four who was murdered Maureen was a single mother of two lived in Norwich, Connecticut. Her family said she was smart, creative, and loved being a mother. Maureen posted escort ads on Craigslist and other websites to meet clients At the time, her family didn't know she was doing this Well, I don't think a lot of escorts are casting that to family members. No, I mean I'm sure there are some whose family know what they do, but That does seem to be something that maybe is kept hidden. Yeah. I think more often than not Maybe it's because the they don't think their family will approve Maybe it's just because they're not with that, but they feel like they got to do it to make ends meet. I really don't know. Yeah. C be a number of different reasons. But it is somewhat Interesting that we kind of have this craigslist connection at least between two different people that we've talked about And then also obviously the escort connection Maureen sister Melissa Can told CBS. She was getting evicted from her house She needed to get some money. It was her last resort These are all the jobs she called and applied for Pulson Data entry And the list goes on and on. She didn't turn to Craigslist because she wanted to She turned to Craigslist because she felt there was no way out No one would give her a job she had to do out of necessity. Yeah. You know, sadly, I think there are a lot of people maybe who Turn to that out of necessity. I don't know what the percentage would be I don't know how many people go into that as like First choice I'm sure there are some. But probably yeah. I don't know if it would be the overwhelming majority I would think not On july sixth, two thousand seven Burner phone contacted Maureen S betweenween july sixth and july ninth. There were sixteen interactions between the twoes Okay, so definitely some conversations going on. Yeah and about a three day period of time I don't talk to anybody sixteen times in three days. On the phone, I believe I talk to you mayaybe once a week. Baby Sometimes we just text. Yeah Once sometometimes we don't even text. I know. You just show up And we record. I talk to my wife every day It's only because she calls me on her way home from work. Yeah. She could wait, but she's got nothing else to do. So she just calls me in the car. I want you to know. I talk to my mom maybe once a week, my dad once a week. Other than that, you know, friends here and there, I do not call people a lot. I don't think you have sixteen interactions in a month with everybody you know. Maybe not. No, mayaybe not Now if it's work related or whatever, I have a lot with listeners who email in and respond to them and things like that. but J to call and talk No, it's not my uh My favorite Here's here's how our conversation will go Hey man, how are you doing? I'm okay. Okay, it sounds good. So I'll see you tomorrowight, Yep. see you.ye. Yeah, if we do talk, that's about what it would be So the number of interactions is something to take a look at, but then the other thing is that it's a burner ph a phone. So I think we have to Keep that in mind as well. On july eighth, Maureen's sister Melissa spoke to her for the last time. She received a call from Maureen late at night from Penn Station in Midtown, Manhattan Maureen said she was going to take the midnight train She never saw or heard from her sister again You ever been to Penn Station U a long, long time ago. Yeah. I've actually never been to New York City. Oh really? Never. My wife keeps saying she wants to go. We've talked about going the Um C'te sauce in New York City Now you and I had Pen station for dinner, but it's not not the same thing. No not So Maureen was last seen alive in New York City. On july ninth, two thousand seven, she checked into a super eight motel in Manhattan and disappeared Maureen's family reported her missing in Norwich and told the police she was an esc They were told, mayaybe your sister just ran away. Maybe she doesn't care about her kid Wow, man Dad's tough That's tough. I wonder How much of that was rightight after they found out she was an escort you know, back to your point earlier didid they think Okay, yeep, we're done with this because we don't care I hate to say that, but We know it's happened I think that's probably what did happen because I can't imagine someone being so insensitive to say something so stupid Yeah. Now, not to say it's not a possibility But is that the first thing you're gonna to tell the family Maybe she don't care about her kids. Yeah, I don't know. Like I think insensitive for sure, at the very least simimilar to the Shannon Gilbert case Maureen's family felt like no one took them seriously. so They started searching themselves Officers later told Missy that someone used Maureen's Sofa. to make a call from Long Island both Long Island and Midtown, Manhattan would become central locations in the investigation The second of the Goo four went missing almost exactly two years later After graduating from beauty school, twentyw four year old Melissa. Bartholomey moved from Buffalo, New York to New York City to work as a hairdresser She also did escort Melissa was last seing alive in New York City on july nineteenth two thousand nine When Bartholomew became work after she didn't hear from her daughter for several days She called hospitals and she called the NYPD to file a missing persons report But according to her They didn't want to hear anything They said She's twenty four She's not on any psych meds. She's not missing. She's where she wants to be And she said that happened for three consecutive days Yeah, I just I find that so wrong. It's like We don't have time to deal with this She's twenty four, she's where she want to be. Don't worry about it, you know? She'll get a hold of you when she wants to talk to you. Yeah. Now I understand, right? An adult has the right to go miss it go and do whatever they want But is that The first I guess Right off the bat conclusion to most missing persons reports, I don't know It's also her mom that knows her. It's not like They have a bad relationship. I feel like the mom' saying, my daughter is missing She normally contacts me Whenever. And I haven't heard from her and We need to find her I just wonder again How much of that had to do with whether or not they knew that she did some esc workort Family attorney, Steve Cohen. contacted the police and was allegedly told She's a hooker. She's a prostitute She was She's an escort We're not going to assign a detective mean J just that right there We're not going to sign a detective to this because she's this, this and this Okay, so because she's these things That makes her less of a person that she doesn't deserve the same respect and same courtesy that you would give anybody else missing No because you shouldn't get it, it's wrong. Now, obviously it's this guy saying that. Yeah. That's why, you know, we use the word allegedly, but I don't know why this attorney would have a you know, any reason to this songact A week after she went missing, Melissa's fifteen year old sister, Amand. received calls from her sister's phone Amanda answered and said, Melissa, where have you been A man responded on the other end of the line saying Oh This isn't Melissa. Acording to attorney Steve Cohen. He was soft spoken and had a very controlled and comfortable manner of speech. which made Perrific messages All the more devastating Yeah This guy began to toy with her For the very first time She heard the voice of the killer. Well This guy's got some You know, what on them to to do something like that, right? The make those calls and to Yeah, but he's getting something out of it. Oh, for sure,. Right. Yeah. Not doing it just For the heck of it He's getting something out of it in a sick twisted way He's getting his jollies off There were eight calls total traced to midtown, Manhattan In one call, the killer spoke to Lyint He said he was with the NYPD and wanted to know if she filed the missing persersons report Steve Cohen told CBS And the killer said some pretty horrible things to a man. sexually explicit things as to what he had done to Melissa sexually explicit things as to what he was going to do to Amanda I mean, it goes to what you were saying that most likely he was very mad in that conversation to her. Yeah And he was obviously, like we said, getting something out of it some kind of sexual gratification. But I want to talk about Amanda And and you know, Lyn for that matter, but Amanda hearing from this person that she believes killed her sister And he's talking about what he did to her, but then he's also saying what he's going to do to Amanda. Yeah, scary. You talk about being scared mean, I I don't know how this poor girl slept didn't I She had to have been terrified Based on his voice, the police believed he was a white man. in his late twenties to late thirties I don't know how you can determine someone's age Either voice though I think that's hard to do. It is. Pople have always Misjudged our age. Sure before they've seen us, they don't misjudge it Once they see us, but I think a lot of people before they got to see this on video thought that Maybe we were a little bit younger, they did than what we were But also a white male in his late twenties to late thirties For some reason, I feel is how every FBI profile starts. Exactly. It's a white male. Yeah. in his late twenties to late third L I could have wrote that. But it seemed like the caller knew about investigative techniques based on the way he made calls in busy locations and how long he stayed on the phone be tracked. Yeah, and we were just kind of joking around about that earlier, right In the movies It's like people know exactly how long they can stay on the phone. before The other side, law enforcement can Trace the cop. Yeah Well they're kind of saying this about this guy How's he know this Is he a cop? Does he have some kind of inside knowledge Amanda received the final call on august twenty sixth, two thousand nine The man told her Do you know what I did to your sister? Well, I killed Melissa He warned Amanda that He knew where she lived. And he threatened to come after Gosh I mean, I feel for her on so many different levels sure Obviously being told that herer sister was killed I the man. killed her Yeah. Firsthand or saying that he he's the one who killed her and then threatening her in a way that I think few threats would ever rise to the lab. Right? Because Number one, you're already thinking this guy's a killer. Yeah. Not a crackpot Not someone just making idle threats. This is someone who's claiming to have already killed your sister who you know is missing and is saying, I know where you live And I'm going to kill you too. You have to believe him because he's giving you some really strong details of What happened to your sister? Well and not just kill you I' also basically saying I'm going to sexually assault you with all the nasty things that you know, I've said in previous calls So feel horrible for her as well. twenty two year old Megan W was a mother from Scarborough, Maine. Megan's family said she was u A creative woman who loved fashion She was devoted to her daughter, but she also had a troubled life like the other victims Megan did sescort work onn june fifth, twenty ten burner phone that was activated that day contontacted me att one thirty one AM on june sixth The same burner phone contacted Megan security footage captured her leaving a holiday in expxpress in Aopage page I hope I'm saying not correctly. It's a Hamlet on Long Island around that same time. This was the last time Megan was seen a lot Meghgan normally had someone with her When she went on client calls But this time she was alone Cell phone records placed Meghgan's phone in a long Island neighborhood called Massa Pqua Park twenty seven year old Amber Costello lived in West Babylon Bong Island just seven and a half miles from Massaopepequa Park. She also did escort work A client asked Amber to meet him at the Holiday and Express An Ha a few weeks before she went missing But Amber refused And now I'm almost certain I'm saying that incorrectly, but A lot of people will tell me how wrong I am. They will Amber's roommate Dave Schawer said she was an amazing person Amber struggled with addiction and She did sex work to pay for drugs ccuring to Dave. Amber used to say she was better off debt. She hate that she hated that she struggled. with addiction. and she didn't like her work He told forty eight hours She knew what she was doing was just like degrading, just despicable. abbsolutely hate it She had an addiction that she had to feed. Yeah And I think she was very honest about it. Yeah She was doing it to get money to pay for her drug. On september first, twenty ten Amber was contacted by a burner phone On the second, she left her house to meet a client and never came back. Dave Schawer told the police about Amber's clients. He said One of them looked like an ogre and drove a first generation Chevrolet Okay, an ogre. M talk a Shrek? Yeah. justust a big Ugly guy, ugly dude Clan had called Amber three to four times on the day she went missing He offered her fif thousand five hundred dollars for the night which was about six times her hourly rate It's a heck of a u amount to be offered If that's six times what you typically would get paid. Yeah. I mean, that that's kind of hard to turn down. Yeah Here's my thought If you're a serial killer You can offer whatever you want. Absolutely N you're never going to pay it You don't have any plans of ever paying that money. And if you do pay it You're eventually going to get it back. Yeah I mean, it's a sad thing to say, but You have to believe that that goes through person like this is mine. that You know, I'm going to make an offer that there's no way someone can refuse. And I can do it because it doesn't matter. I'm not paying it But for Amber, this is this is like I can make all this money. And I won't have to do this for X amount of days or whatever because I'll get all this money up frront and think about all the drugs I can It's just too good to pass up. Yeah, rightight from her perspective In twenty eleven, Dave spoke to CBS and said, This guy was so relentless called several times. He was on the phone with her for quite a while each time This client convinced Amber to do something she never did which was leave home without her purse or phone. meet him in his car They walked out the front door with Amber As she left to meet her client She hugged him, said she loved him And l It was almost midnight He saw her walking down the street and never saw her again. Dave told forty eight hours He didn't see the client's face, but he thought he had seen the guy before. After the bodies were found on Gilgo Beach, police began the hunt for a suspect who became known as the Long Island Serial K or Lisk for sureort We always have to abbreviate things. we always do Investigators noted similarities between the Gilgo four Not only were they found close together They were all young sex workers with petite bills The victims excluding Meghgan Waterman were' five feet tall or less a hundred pounds all in their twenty. and working is online escort Megan Waterman was five foot five What would be the advantage of having a pite Escort Because maybe you can control them. and have Yeah, I actually have a couple of theories Yeah One is that If you're going to attack someone Is it going to be easier to subdue someone that weighs a hundred pounds Probably, you know U, but also Is it possible that the killer just had a type Oh, very, very much so. And his type was Very petite you know, short women who Didn't weigh much. Yeah, you know Dominic Veron Former chief of detectives believed the killer scrolled through online ads on Craigslist. to find his preferred victim type. he said, if he desires a particular height, and weight and eye color He can do that. think if you look at the Go for They're very, very close with unique characteristics, very petite five foot or under hundredundred pounds hazel green ees I think he's right on the m Yeah becausecause If you're driving around Looking on street corners Can you size up someone to see, yeah, how tall they are, sure N not going to see eye color though. O an online ad, it probably has All of that Wait. Iye col. You're going save a lot of time, right? You can sit there in your office or on your living room S scroll through See what you like It's a scary thought, but you're absolutely right. It is scary The bodies were wrapped in burlap and found in similar positions, bound with belts or tape at the head, midsection and leg Brome believed the killer was familiar with the area along Ocean Parkway and chose it as his dumping room. At the time, the area was covered in brush There has since been a new bike path. constructed But in twenty ten, few joggers and cyclists went to this area I mean, I think you had to be comfortable, right? T take a body out of your out of your vehicle You know, and and throw it or roll it or carry it twenty to thirty feet off the road You gotta feel pretty comfortable. no one's coming by. Yeah Veron wondered if the killer chose small victims, who would be easier to overpower and transport. That's a good thought there. Yeah, because you hit on the overpower part But now we're talking about transport And not to be morose, but a lifeless body I'm sure is hard to transport. I have no Firsthand knowledge of it. Why they call it dead wayight. Right a hundred pounds much easier than one hundred and fifty or two hundred pounds. I mean, that's just fact Instead of burying the bodies, he just tossed them into the brush Investigators also suspected the killer might have posed as a hunter private trash hauler or someone else who would have had a reason to be on the beach The killer might have been someone who was charming or persuasive. For example He convinced Amber Costello to leave behind her phone An Maureen Brainard Barnes was at Penn station about to get on a train when she disappeared I think that's a good observation because What does that mean? Who are we talking about here as a potential killer? Are we talking about Henry Lee Lucas Wh would scare the You know what? out of anybody who who saw him. whether they knew he was a killer or not, he was just a scary looking dude, or are we talking about posossibly a more normal I hate to use the word normal, but Henry Lee Lucas wasn't normal, so I'm okay with it. But I'm more of an everyday type of guy notot Shabby dressed chabbily dressed or you know Wears nice clothes peaks well Maybe madeade them feel comfortable. Yeah. I think he probably had to make them feel comfortable for them to to do some of these things. I think that's what the investigators were saying The killer was also brazen and sadistic as evidenced by the disturbing phone calls, and that he made to Mlissa Meliss' family. I mean, those were nasty. We talked about them Things that he said to Amber? Yeah Yeah. Amanda I mean Amanda, yeah The police continued searching the beach on december sixteenth, twenty ten Throughout the spring of twenty eleven Investigators continued searching for Channon Gil. I mean, that's who we started the episode talking about end up finding O victims, but not Shannon But really this is just the beginning of the Long Island serial killer case More horrifying discoveries would be made on Gogo Beach that spring In part two of the Long Island Sial killer episodes, will' cover the discovery of additional bodies in the Gilgo Beach area The links among the victims. and follow the investigation through twenty twenty two So like we said, right, as we wrap up this first part It's gonna take four parts because there's just so much to this cake There really is. I mean, if you did it back in the day as an unsolved case It would have taken three episodes, Yeah. Yeah. No, you're right. And you know, now obviously with the discovery of who the perpetrator was and even more recently him pleading guilty than we just got a lot to get into. We do But that's it for the first part We got a voicemail. you want to check that out. Let'sar it. People on the video are not used to seeing or hearing voicemails. No, But this is what happens on the regular podcast. so is they're seeing it for the first time Hey guys My name is Brooke. I live in South Mississippi And I've been listening to y'all for years. I had to start completely over because I got a new phone and lost what Apple had saved for me started it all over again and now I'm point through again. But I just wanted to let y'all know, I absolutely love y'all's podcast. I listen to it while I'm working, while I'm driving, while I'm G to bed everything in between and So there is a very little known serial killer that most people don't know about. His name is Robert Dale Henderson. I actually had to do a project on him. Back in college, he I found out about him because I went to interview as a nine hundred and eleven dispatcher in my hometown. And the guy who interviewed me knew my family name because he was the lead investigator on the case of my cousin who was killed in nineteen eighty two, turns out she was the thirteenth victim of a serial killer named Robert Dell Henderson yall should look him up and see what y'all can figure out Be a lot of people don't even know he existed But y'all have a blessed day and Keep your own time of tickking byye All right, we love you We do. We appreciate the voicemail. We'll definitely look into that. Yeah, Thankks, Brook. It sounds like could make for A very interesting episode All right, buddy, that's it. it is for another episode of True Cime all the time. So for Mike, Gibbbe, stay safe and keep your own time ticking