Shannon Gilbert Case and Conclusion

You know, folks, making that decision to start a podcast or really any type of business, it's scary. It was for Gibby and I as well. But what if no one listened? What if we make fools of ourselves And it can be really hard to get over that doubt But choosing to make that leap was one of the best decisions we've ever made. Another great decision was picking Shopify to help with our podcast merch. It really does help. When you have a partner like Shopify on your side Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world And ten percent of all e commerce in the US from household names like GyemShark to True Crime All the T time to brands just getting started. There is a lot to love about Shopify. I love the fact that they're now packed with helpful AI tools that help you write product descriptions and enhance your product photography. email and social media campaigns. And if you get stuck, Shopify is always around to share advice with their award winning twenty fourty seven customer support. It's time to turn those what ifs into withith Shopify today. signign up for your one dollar per month trial today at shhopify dot com slash TCat. Go to shhopify dot com slash TCat. That's shopify dot com slash Tca TT B Brian Reynolds here from Mobile I don't know if you knew this, but anyone can get the same premium wireless for fifteen dollars a month plan that I've been enjoying. It's not just for celebrities, so do like I did and have one of your assistant's assistants switch you to Mint moobile today. P told' super easy to do at mintMobile dot com slash switch. Upfront payment of forty five dollars per three month plan equivalent to fifteen dollars per month required. Intro rate first three months only, then full price plan options available. taxes and fees extra. Feful terms at mintMobile dot com Hello everyone and welcome to episode five hundred one of the True Cime All the timeime Podcast I'm Mike Ferguson and with me as always is my partner in True Cime, Mike Gibson, Gibby, how are you? Hey, we did and we went over five hundred episodes. Yeah. Yeah Turn the page to five hundred one like the jeans you we Five hundred ones. Button fly, button fly I never understood buttonfly They were not a big hit. I don't. I think they were. I think a lot of people wherear maybe still do A zipper just seems so much faster. It is. It's a lot of work when you got to get your jeans off to have to undo those five buttons, except for, you know, that guy and something about Mary. See, peopleople that are afraid of that might go with the button p That's true All right, man, we're diving right in. Okay. So Last episode. We started our series on the Long Island serial killer. We started off talking about how the investigation began The discovery of the bodies on Gilgo Beach the lives of the Gilgo for. and the early suspect profile. Wh Let's face it, wasn't a whole lot. Ogre. in his late twenties Yeah to late thirties Basically is what we got U Now I did want to spend just a second here though talking about commonalities or the similarities of the victims, we touched on it in episode one But it's hard to bully Right? when you kind of step away and you look at it that someone is targeting a very specific of woman, right I mean, number one, they're all escorts So they have that in common And as we heard, I think one of the investigators say You know It seems as though this person is going online And essentially searching for the type of victim that they're looking for Tat, Haze ees What a hundred pounds or less? Yeah. for the majority of them. Five foot or less. Yeah. I mean, it's a very specific. type and I just got to thinking about it you know, between the first episode and the second How easy That would have been for the killer Fairly easy It's like, and I don't want to trivialize it But it's like shopping on Amazon. basasically 's exactly what you're saying, right? He went to the market Yeah, selected the criteria and then said, here you go Now, We did spend a little bit of time talking about sex workd. Again Very dangerous job. Al has been, always will be You think about sescort maybe being saafer Then someone standing on a street corner who's getting into car with a stranger who is then going to drive away to wherever they want But then Is it becausecause now we're talking about someomeone who's advertising their services online where someone can carefully select type of that they're looking And this killer doing a good job and I hate even saying that, but he's He' doing a job where he can get them to drop their defense. right? tellelling them, hey, leave this stuff behind D't bring your First, don't bring this. and kindind of like the safety net, right? I mean, you just Pone Yeah, maybe a purse with a spray or something that woman would normally carry as some form of protection. Maybe that's part of that But I just I was really thinking about that And again We don't We always hate it when we have to give I don't want to use the word props, but When you have to give credit or anything like that killer, but I think you have to talk about how they go about doing what they Right It's important. sureure it is. to the story. It's also important to learning what to look for in certain situations But as we move on to part two You know we'll cover the discovery of additional bodies in the Gilgo Beach area. More links Right or all the links among the victims And follow the investigation through twenty twenty two On march twenty ninth, twenty eleven Lice found partial skeletal remains Several miles east. Where the Gilo four were found. And we said it, right? in episode one. the remains of these four women Gilgo four were found Very close together. They were I mean, there was no doubt to me that this was a killer's Dumping room. That's how close they were. This wasn't scattered. I mean, this was place that someone went to specifically they went back to specifically because They must have thought This was a great place the first time. It's going to serve me well. in the future. I mean, clearly they were comfortable that area. I think that's that's a good word to use These remains were identified as twenty year old Jessica Taylor when missing in two thousand three Only Jessica's skull and hands. were found on the beach However, other parts of her remains had already been found. Back on july twenty sixth, two thousand three Dog Walker in Mannerville Eastern Long Island found a nude and dismembered cept. on top of a pile of scrap wood at the end of a paved access road off Halsey Manor Road The head and arms below the elbow had been removed And a tattoo was mutilated to hinder identification So you know, we're talking about A number one a sick individual Absolutely. I mean, there there's no doubt about that But I think we're also talking about person who is at least putting some thought into what they're doing mean, they're trying to get away with what they're doing. So obviously There' some steps that they're going to take to hinder the police from identifying who this person is I think they're Not only doing that, but I feel like maybe they might be getting an enjoyment out of this as well couldould be right. It could be a twofold kind of thing messing the words up, but you know what I'm saying I mean, obviously, if you're removing the head and hand. That's, um That goes a long way towards identifying someone And then take it a step further And then you're trying to mutilate a tattoo, which might help probably would help the police. identify the person The remains were identified as Jessica later that year. Jessica was last seen working around the port authority bus term in Manhattan. Authorities believe she was killed sometime between july twenty first in july twenty sixth Jessica's mother reported her missing when she didn't show up for a planned get together in Pickkeepsi So I mean The one thing that jumps out at me is these discoveries were made eight years apart. Yeah. And We talk all the time about You know, whether it's a hunter or somebody out hiking or something like that, stumbling upon either a dead body or the remains of a body, sculptal remains. I think that would be Shocking. But then there's another part of it that that I can't help but think about And that's that How many? people' remains are just out in some remote area to be found. Scary. That's a scary thought. I think there's a lot I think so too I don't like it. I don't eat It's not going to help me plan hiking trips You know, I don't do a lot of hiking anyway Sorry No, I mean I'm not worried about you going hiking. No. There's no danger of me planning any, but it's not going to strengthen that or make that any more likely On april fourth, twenty eleven, three more sets of remains were found along Ocean Parkway The Gilgo Beach. The first victim was identified as Jane Doe number six. Authorities found her head rightight foot and hands on the beach She was found a mile and a half east of Jessica, Taylor and a little over two miles east of the Gilgo F This woman's remains were found years earlier in Manorville, Long Island. in november two thousand againain, This was the same area. where Jessica Taylor's partial remains were found in two thousand three I mean, are you asking yourself if you live there, what the hell's going on? I think that's one of the things you're asking. Yeah It's also I mean, nobody would have known it in the beginning, but It's also fascinating when you look back on it that Okay Dumped certain parts or some parts of the body in one location, Multiple people. And then he dumped parts of multiple people in a second location So again Those locations must have been ones that he was familiar with comfortable with other thought is we're talking about a person who is more than okay apparently Thismembering body. Yeah. Yeah and You know, I can't imagine ever killing someone, It's not something I want to think about. I don't think of myself as ever doing that. And I think it would be really hard to dismember a body go to that next level. Yeah. Yeah I guess if you're a stone cold killer The preay doesn't phazase you at all I think for most of us It's a bridge too far I think you had to have a There's a certain type of personality They can do that. You mean like a sociopath, a psychopath or, you know, that ye that kind of personality? Yes The victim's torso was wrapped in garbage bags and dumped in the woods near the intersection of Halsey Manor Road and Mill Road. the remains of an unidentified female toddler We're located in the same area of Gilgo Beach as Jane Doe number six the remains of an unidentified male were found closer to the remains of the Gilgo fort. Investigators described the victim as between seventeen, twenty three years old Asian and death occurred five to ten years earlier I mean so we're kind of getting away from the MO Right? Well, yeah, obviously we're we're male now. Yeah And we have a toddler. Yeah So That doesn't fit at all with the MO that we've been talking about, which is seex workers. presumably gone through online They all fit a very similar specific type So for authorities, they have to figure out, are these related? Are they tied together or this just some random bodies were uncovering. But again, it goes back to your question is what the hell is going on? I would I would be asking myself if I live there. If you're a beach goer, if you live in the area, I think these are all questions you got to ask This is not all coming out at the same time. No, right? We're talking about different years and things like that. So We can We know it all now. Yeah, yeah. But peopleeople didn't know it all in two thousand or two thousand three, it would come out and drips and drabs. And so maybe it didn't hit the same way. Probably not, but to people. I just think, you know, as it as you pick up the paper and you You're like D this happen last year Yeah It happened two years ago? But at a certain point Obviously they were able to lay it all out. Yeah. And when you see it all like that, it's it's very Disconcerting to say the least. for sure The greatest distance between victims was one point four three months And the shortest distance was just four tenths of a mile On april eleventh, twenty eleven Two more sets of remains were found off Ocean Park Way and Nassau County seeven miles west of Gilgo Beach The first set of dismembered remains were found in the brok at Jones Beach State Park They belong to an unidentified woman This was another instident. where the woman's partial remains were first discovered in a different location years earlier Drop a little bit over here, drop a little bit over here They can't figure it out. Yeah on june twenty eighth, nineteen ninety seven the dismembered torso of an African American woman was found at Hempstead Lake State Park in Lakeview, New York The torso was found in a plastic container. next to a road along the west side of the lake, The victim had a tattoo below her left breast of a peach with a bite out of it. and two drips falling from the core Because of this, investigators called the Jane Doe Paches The case was featured on America's Most Wanted, and her tattoo was published in a tattoo magazine leading a Connecticut tattoo artist to come forward with the tip He recalled that Peaches was visiting from Long Island with her aunt and cousin and said she was having boyfriends I mean, it was worth putting it into that Magazine. Yeah. Well, you and I talk about it all the time though, right? If you could back in the day get a case on America's M wanted Yeah. That was a Big frrein deal. I mean you got in front of a lot of people. There was a lot of eyeballs. a lot of people watched that show Now. The tattoo thing It's a great piece evidence or it's a great identifier But you got to somehow get it in front of the person that would know maybe who did that tattoo or the person who did that tattoo Really smart of them to think about Dad. putting it in a tattoo magazine. Yeah I think they got lucky with that I mean, I could have been hit or miss, but in this case They had a they had a good head But what was the downside? No downside if it doesn't work. No So Why not take the chance? I mean, that's kind of the way I look at it Here's the thing about true crime. It's a constant reminder that life is unpredictable. We can't control everything that happens, does. But we can control how prepared we are and how protected the people we love will be if something does happen. With more than four hundred thousand satisfied customers and celebrating five years in business this month The knock boox is a complete system that will help you organize everything in your life from your accounts to your spare keys to your estate pl With a knockbox, your loved ones won't have to search through drawers or struggle to access online accounts during an already difficult time. Each folder inside of your knockbox includes a checklist that tells you what to add to the folder and tells your next of kin what to do with the information. You can't get more comprehensive than a knockbox G the gold standard in organizational system and make life easier for your next of kids G to the knockbox dot com and use code TCat today to save sixteen percent on the knockbox of your choosing. That's the nokbox dot com code TcATT at checkout to save sixteen percent The essential dining experience is set long before the plates are plated, the sauce is simmered, or the puree hits the pan It starts with a simple blend that's consistent, purposeful, and precise trrusted by the world's best chefs so you can bring your best. VitaminX On the essential In twenty fifteen, investigators determined Peaches was the mother of the female toddler known as Baby Dough found on the beach on april fourth. They were found six miles apart And that's heartbreaking, right? I mean, we're talking about the deaths of a lot of women here And it's sad, it really is It hits different when you're talking about a toddler There's just no way around it Peaches, skull and some of her limbs have still not been found which meant investigators could not put together a composite sketch They believed Paches was between twenty and thirty years old In addition to her distinctive tattoo She had a scar indicating she had a C section the extremities peaches that were found on Jonanes's Beach had two gold bracelets herer daughter, Baby Dough was wrapped in a blanket with a sixteen inch gold chain two gold hoop earrings Okay the skull and teeth were found at Tobay Beach and listed is Jane Doe number seven. The remains were confirmed to belong to an unidentified victim. who severed legs were found in a garbage bag on Fire Island on april twentieth ninety six I mean, let let's just stop for a minute I mean, we are talking about a trail of carnage here. We really are You know, we're talking about it The twenty, twenty knowledge, right of knownowing everything that happened I still think early on when these things were being discovered, I'm sure it probably didn't hit the same way. H'its different in its totality, but I mean, once you know the Once you know everything that some parts were found over here, some were here, two different dumping grounds. I mean, it becomes It'sust so scary. Yeah It really does And you get the full scope of I mean, if this is one person, we got a real predator here And if it's not one person, then what do we make out of it You got multiple people running around dumping bodies in the same parts. It's hard not to believe as one person, but But you could It could be multiple. And that would potentially even be scarier, I guess. By May of twenty eleven total of ten sets of remains had been found on Gilgo Beach Investigators weren't sure whether or not the same killer was responsible for All the mur So I just got done saying, right that at a certain point kind of the totality is going to said in, I think by may twenty eleven. It's being reported that ten sets of remains. had been found I mean, if you're a resident, If you're making travel plans, it's not going to be to Gilgo Beach. I can tell you that much. Absolutely not, man, you're going stay away from there On may ninth, twenty eleven. The police speculated that wo of the murderes appeared to be related The partial remains of Jane Doe number six previously been found in a heavily wooded area of Manorville On november nineteenth, two thousand She was found in the same section where Jessica Taylor's torso was recovered The manner of disposal of Jane Doe number six was said to have been distinctly dissimilar to the Gilgo for but similar to that of Jessica Taylor So I don't know what you make of that other than maybe questioning whether this is the same person or If it was one person who murdered and disposed of the Gilgo four, but then you have a second person come in and just happen to murder and dispose of the remains of his victims in a similar place Either way I'm scared to death, man. Yeah So This is just a bizarre scenario. It is It is and imagine You know, you live pretty close to there and you picking up the morning paper and this is probably headline news and you're reading it For weeks on end, it's terrifying stuff. What if you took a jog down that way earlier that day? Wouldn't be Oh, you mean before you knew? Yeah Okay, yeah, because the jogs are going stop. I would hope so. I mean, I wouldn't be jogging anyway. Jogging is about as likely as hiking Yeah or actually less likely probably for me. but yeah, I think if you're an avid jogger and that that was your route you're either buying a treadmill. to stay indoors O you you're picking a different re. Yeah one to the other I can't imagine that anybody is reading that type of news and saying Yeah, I'll go back there on the next job. Jog. that's fine. I'm not worried about it. Yeah. In early december twenty eleven, investigators found Shannon Gilbert's belongings including her purse. shoes and clfone They were found in Marshland near Oak Beach Long Island You know, this is so fascinating, right? Because We started episode one We did. talalking about Shannon Gilbert. That's who they were searching for. Yeah when they happen to you know, find the remains of these women and then We're finding more and more remains, but they still They weren't finding Shannon Gilbert But the remains of Shannon were finally found On december thirteenth, twenty eleven a quarter mile from where her belongings were found Interestingly, authorities didn't suspect foul play because She wasn't Dismembered? Yeah And how the the A accounts from that night went Yeah, that could be But Shannon's family had a private autopsy done Their pathologists thought the findings were consistent with homicide the SCPD and the FBI behavioral unit believe Shannon's death was an accidental druma Still you have to think about O's how the whole case started But then for her to be found belongings here, her remains here Yeah If it's not related, she's still mixed in with that stuff and it's just It's just like another layer, because Bizarness It is the way to say that. It is and I get it. it's Maybe a different situation. It's not Similar enough, right to lump in In january twenty twelve, James Burke took over as Chief of the Suffolk County Police. forcing former Chief of detectives Dominic Veron into retirement Chief Burke reduced manpower and cut out outside agencies involved in the Gilgo Beach investigations. The case remained unsolved But the Long Island serial killer remained a topic in the headline And how could it not Yeah I mean, this is big time stuff. You've got ten different women Yeah, at least or ten different victims. remain scattered in multiple locations I mean, we're talking about a very vicious Sial killer and you you just can't let that sit there. you know, you have to talk about it. You need to make sure that authorities are doing everything they can to figure out what the heck's going on But is it a priority for them? If Majority of the victims are sex workers. Well, it does kind of to me then bring up the question You're reducing manpower and you're cutting out outside agency Oh provide a lot of help, why are you doing that Is there no pressure Is it because of their profession? manyany of them? I don't know But it seems like a weird thing because This has to be veryer there in the headlines, but yet you're reducing the amount of people working on. mean it seems like something you'd want to make sure you We're still continuing with a full press on it would seem like something that the public would be demanding. Yeah. But maybe they're not because of the profession of most of these victims, I don't know On december tenth, twenty fifteen, Suffolk County pololice commommissioner Tim Seeney announced that the FBI had joined the investigation one day after former Chief James Burke was indicted for civil rights violations and conspiracies So You know, I don't know everything about it, but You know Obviously, the minute this guy's gone They bring the FBI back in and not That seems logical to me. It seems strange to me that they would even cut anybody out He's trying to But are they bringing him back in you know, for the Unsolved murders Or is it a combination of that and the fact that this Damnit Chief you know, uh is in trouble over a civil rights violations. Yeah, I don't know. Now, the New York Post reported that Burke refused to keep the FBI informed. of the investigation into the Gilgo Beach murders This is because he was on the FBI's radar. For the twenty twelve assault of a man named Christopher Christopher Loe was arrested in Smithtown, New York probation violations during the arrest in search of his home. Officers found Stolen merchandise from over a dozen vehicles includluding Burke's vehicle His gun belt magazines of ammunition cigars Cumidor and a canvas bag were stolen It was reported that Lbe also stole sex toys and pornography from You stole from my vehicle Stole my stuff, but you also stole my sex toys. so that's probably You know An embarrassment u thing didn't like to have out there. Well, I mean, this is the chief of police First of all Okay Maybe you can't help it. that your police vehicle got stolen, right? That's maybe outside your control But let's talk about why you have sex toys and pornography in there You know, that's going to be a question that's going to come up. It is What you do on your own time, you know, as I always say, is is your own business, but Okay, you might be transporting it maybe to get it home, but you know when you get home, maybe you take that stuff out of your work vehicle and putut it in the bedroom where you think it belongs But you know, as well as I know Once that gets out there You know, and you you're, uh working day in and day out with your Fllow officers They are not. 're going to let that slide Well, he's the chief of police. So they work for him, but they're still not going to let us. There're going to be some things jokes things maybe because he's the boss. they don't say them directly to him, but everybody's going to be talking behind his back. I can guarantee you that Yeah know, you just think about losing your gun belt. Amunition, things like that Ske was allowed to enter and get his bag and other items during the search. He drove to the Suffolk County Police Fth precinct in Smithtown where Loe was being interrogated He entered the room and punched and kicked Loe in the head embody while he was chained in handcuff Burke and others pressured the detectives who witnessed the assault to conceal it And this is why people have big time problems with police. Sure. Yeah Bad apples like this guy making The rest of police officers look bad. I mean, look, I get it. you have the right to be pissed that this guy took your stuff. Yeah But And probably like I said, embarrassed you But you don't have the right to go in there and beat him No, and who would know better than of that than the chief of police? He let his emotions get e away He did. So Burke was arrested on december ninth, twenty fifteen. He resigned from his position in October. On february twenty sixth, twenty sixteen pleaded guilty to a civil rights violation and conspiracy to obstruct justice F us three years, He and another Suffolk County law enforcement took actions to obstruct a federal civil rights investigation into the assault So I mean, not only Did he assault this man in twenty twelve Then he spent like three years trying to cover it up and get other people to not say anything about On november second, twenty sixteen, Burke was sentenced to forty six months and three years of supervised relef Several years later On august twenty second, twenty twenty three, James Burke was arrested at the Vietnam Veterans Memorial Park in Farming after exposing himself to an undercover ranger. and saying he was interested in oral sex He tried to leverage his status as a former law enforcement official to get out of the charge He was charged with offering a sex act public lewdness, indecent exposure and criminal solicitation. What's going on here? What the what He's over at the Vietnam Veterans Memorial Park. very serious place, right? Yeah And then he's like, Hey, it doesn't seem like a hookup place, but maybe it is. I don't know where this place is. L was like, Hey, buddy, look, look, I don't have nothing on. Why don't you come over here and, you know, Um Anyway, I think you was Wearing the brown trench coat? Yes doesn't go the way he thinks it's should go and then he's like, hey Yeah, I' made a bad choice here, but don't don't Arest me because I'm one of you, man I'm an officer. I used to be I will do it again and let me go But here's the thing, right? He was severely disgraced officer Yeah. So I don't know what I don't know how he's leveraging that first place, but It's not going to work, right Now I'm starting to wonder type of sex toys and pornography were stolen from his car And maybe they were a little bit more Salacious, I guess is the word I would use. Rro no if they were homosexual in nature and maybe the people who worked for him didn't know that Yeah. but that's part of what came out after this guy stole his Stff And that maybe led to some of his ans. have been I don't know. I'm dwing that out there I mean, we're in the middle of a hunt for a serial killer. And we're dealing with this guy. Yeah Wh doesn't seem to want to catch the serial killer. Pace too busy involved with covering up the fact that he beat the you know what? out of this guy for stealing is sex toys and pornography. Yeah Chime is fee free banking built for you. They are not like the stuffy traditional old banks, charging you overdraft and monthly fees. Chime does things differently. They also have thousands of fee free ATMs Why in the world would you pay to get your own money? Chime is rated five stars by USA todayay for customer service. They have real humans twenty for seven. And I mentioned that Chime is different. They have SpotMe, which lets you overdraft up to two hundred dollars fee free. You can even get up to five hundred dollars hundred of your pay when you want with my pay. With the Chime card, you can get five percent cash back in a category of your choice like gas or groceries I would have benefited so much from Chime when I was younger, I can remember just not even knowing all the different fees I was paying back in the day. Chime is not just smarter banking, it's the most rewarding way to bank. Join the millions who are already banking fee free today. headad to chime dot com slash TCat that's chime dot com slash Tcatt. It only takes a few minutes to sign up Chime is a Fintag, not a bank Banaking services for Mpe and Chime card provided by Chim's bank partners for more information on APY rates pay, spot me and travel perks, go to chime d. com slash disclosures. Optional products and services may have fees or charges reportedly blocked the FBI's involvement in the Gilgo Beach investigation for years leading many to wonder if the case could have been solved soon It's always going to be that question, right? I mean, if if you didn't block BI from getting involved the way they should have been O they wanted to be or they wise they wanted to be. maybe it could have been solved sooner than it was. and Maybe somebody's life could have been spared Well, we talk about it in a lot of cases, right Why would Someone, let's say one jurisdiction turnurn down the help of someone like the FBI. Right? There sometimes there is that kind of You know, we can do it ourselves. We don't need the help of anybody else I get that. Maybe you don't want them to come in and steal your thunder because you think you're going to solve it. This seems like a much different situation. Yeah. I wonder how much of this was he didn't want the FBI involved in Gilgo Beach because He didn't want them involved in what he his stuff. I think that's probably what it was, right? And he thought the two might cross over or something like that. I mean, I get it. you're always going to have, well, hopefully it starts thinning out over time, but You know, you get these egos, right? My department. handle this we don't need you or we don't need you state police to come in here and tell us how to do what we know how to do best You're going to get that. Um But in this case, I think you hit it right on the point. Prob he was like, They're not here They can't find out about this. This other thing. Yeah On september twelfth, twenty seventeen, Suffolk County prosecutor Robert Bian Cavvila said a convicted killer may be responsible for more murders connected to Gilgo Beach. But the investigation was ongoing I don't I mean Again I don't think that is a He's not going out on a limb there No The chances of that are probably pretty good. Yeah John Bitroof was arrested in twenty fourteen after his DNA was found on the bodies of two sex workers Read a tang ready and Colleen Mcnamon We're beatating to deaf In nineteen ninety three and nineteen ninety four respectively thirty one year old Redetang Gy was found on november third, nineteen ninety three in a wooded area of Esplanade Drag. East on Long Island Probably butchering that one as well. Oh, I think you ned it. I doubt it. You were spot on twenty year old Colleen McNamee was killed on january thirtieth, nineteen ninety four and found in a wooded area south of the Long Island Expressway They both died from strangulation. and blunt force trauma to the head Rolf was a married father of two He was twenty seven at the time of the murders The DNA match was made through his brother was convicted of violating a protective order In twenty thirteen, and had to provide a DNA sample I mean, what what's the luck of that, right? Well, if you're a killer, that's bad luck. Yeah. for you, you've done a pretty good job staying out of the databases, staying off police radar All of a sudden, your brother goes and messes it up and you get caught for Murder. Yeah For us, that's great. We love that.bs we do. But if you're a killer You're not happy about that Bit Rolf was convicted in may twenty seventeen and sentenced to twenty five years for each murder Investigators noted a few potential links to the Gil Go Beach murders Bit Rolf lived in Mayorville where the remains of Jessica Taylor were found He was a hunter reportedly enjoyed killing animals. He was also a carpenter and had access to various songs which was relevant because We talked about it, right? Several of the bodies on Gilgo Beach were dismembered The daughter of Rita Tangtti was also close friends with Melissa Bou One of the Gilgo Beach four. Yeah Melissa's mother noted that she had a lot of calls to Mannerville from her phone before she died In september twenty nineteen. State officials determined that investigators could ask the FBI to use genetic genealogy findind potential relatives of the victims 're suspect And You know, that twenty nineteen, that's, you know, it was starting to ramp up pretty big. It was. We had u The Golden Stake killer and Man, we just have not let off the gas since. Genetic genealogy has been Amazing important Why would you not want the FBI to help out with something like that. Think of the resources And I'd never can understand why anybody would say no to the FBI. In january twenty twenty, former Suffolk County pololice commommissioner, Geraldine Hart a former FBI agent who joined the Force in twenty eighteen tried to revive the investigation by releasing a key piece of evidence It was a man's bell. two initials carved into it The initials were H and W Or if you looked at it upside down Eanage Yeah The department also set up the Gilgo News website hoping someone would leave a tip that would progress the investigation Commissioner Hart said about the belt per CBS. do believe that this item was handled by the suspect and did not belong to any of the victims. You know, here you have somebody come in from the FBI. She's now the commissioner She's not caught up in some big scandal, sounds like she's doing a good job. But this's a big deal. It is a big deal. You have a piece of evidence that you believe was handled by the suspect because it presumably didn't belong to any of the suspects But it also has what appears to be initials on it So Okay We got DNA, we got initials You might be onto something here. Do you have your initles on your belt How about that belt buckle? Yeah about you get your name on that? No You don't have that gigantic meeltckle. I still have it, but it doesn't have my initials on it You's got a cowboy riding the bowl. Is that what it has on yours You won that at D Rdeo. Yeah. Yeah, you did not Oh U That's funny, man So on may twenty eighth, twenty twenty, Jane Doe number six was finally identified using genetic genealogy The woman found on Gilgo Beach on april fourth, twenty eleven. was identified is twenty four year old Valerie Maxt Vallerie who also went by the name Melissa Taylor went missing in two thousand At the time, she was working as an escort in Philadelphia and was last seen by her family in Port Republic, New Jersey And this is interesting, right You and I talk a lot about genetic genealogy in the search for killers. But we've also talked about it as a tool used to help identify suspects It's equally valuable there. Obviously we want to find killers and all of that. but Giving unidentified victims their names back, it's unbelievably huge as well. So Some sense even more important. Yeah, think I think you could say that. And we talked about it earlier, but partial remains were found in two thousand. in Mannerville where the remains of Jessica Taylor were also found in two thousand three So Valerie had finally been identified, but Her killer had knocked Meanwhile, Shannon Gilbert's family, they were still seeking answers to explain her suspicious death. The family experienced another tragedy in july twenty sixteen. when Shannon's younger sister, Sarah stab their mother Married to death. She was later convicted of murder and sentenced to twenty five years in prison I mean Unbeliev It is I mean, we're talking about A serial killer and the victims and then wrapped up And all of this are all these kind of, I guess you'd call them side stories better I mean, they're fascinating. there's a better word to talk about that. I guess, you know, my question would be How much of what happened with Sarah was related to Shannon's disisappearance, her death tumultuous things that the family had to deal with But if we think about, you know cause of Sannon's death You know, we don't know. as we're talking about it, but if If it was because of Mental illness Is it possible that her sister suffered from something likeike that as well And maybe that had something to do with her killing her mom I mean it's just it's tragic for sure all the way around. When asked by CBS in twenty twenty, Suffolk County pololice Commissioner Hart said that Shannon Gilbert's cause of death was inconclusive And that's, you know, that's interesting because Acidental drowning R was thrown out there No foul play involved. The family Obviously They didn't believe did their own. autopsy. They were doing their own investigative work Now the police The new police commissioner comes out and says that cause of death was inconclusive In may twenty twenty two, the Suffolk County police released Shannon Gilbert's full nine hundred and eleven call The Suffolk County P police said Shannon's exact cause and manner of death couldn't be determined but based on the evidence, the facts And the totality of the circumstances The prevailing opinion of Shannon's death while tragic was not murder and most likely, In an interview with CBS Former police commissioner Rodney Harrison said It's an unfortunate incident, but right now We believe that she just ran into the marsh and unfortunately drowned So I mean, in the one sense, I do like coming out police commissioner coming out and saying It's inconclusive Now they they're saying most likely we think this has. I don't like it when People are so adamant that something happened a certain way when they really don't have the you know, the facts, let's say to to back it up Um It's kind of like when we talk about manner of death or cause of death When you could leave it as undetermined They don't. and they say natural causes or you know, they say something so definitive when it You look at the evidence and it seems so up in the air. Yeah, why why Box it in when you don't have to. Right, because it sets a lot of things in motion. prevents things from U put in motion The problem is Shannon's family, they still suspected foul play. right? Yeah them coming out and saying this stuff isn't going to change their mind And we said it in part one. I just said it a minute ago They ordered a private autopsy. And it was conducted by Michael Bot Oh yeah and I actually Maybe about a month ago. watched some of the old autopsy shows on HBO. Yeah. And when I was younger, those were shows that fascinated me. Same here. And they were all, you know, cases that he had done or at least cases that He talked about I always thought he was a You know, kind of a fascinating guy He was the former New York Chief medical examiner There was not enough evidence to determine a cause of death according to him The findings were consistent with homicidal strangulation Part of Shannon's neck bone was missing from her roommate I think that right there tells you All you need to know about determining a cause of death If it could go either way, right? if he could see it that way And another medical examiner could see it as accidental drowning Yeah, you gotta say it's undetermined. Absolutely. Be you have multiple experts saying different things Former chief of detectives Dominic Veron said about the accident theory and the way Shannon's belongings were found in the marsh near her body She's disoriented. She's in a frenzy. You have to understand manner in which these items were found very consistent with someone losing these items as their Okay Why are you running? Why is she run I mean, maybe still panicky like she was when she was in that neighborhood. goingo from house to house saying No, I need help help, help help. I need help, help help that we talked about in episode one. you know, Maybe she's still in that mode. Or or is it because she's being chased? Or is she being chased by whatever shes Th think it's Jasason her or actually is chaseing Chaseing her, which could be the truth. Because we're at a different point, right? She's in a different place. Maybe she came across something she shouldn't have came across Or maybe she caught the eye of somebody who just happened to be out there Suffolk Homicide section Canding offfficer Kevin Bryer explain that Shannon wandered into marshland where Reeds can grow up to twelve feet high One cannot tell where the highway is or where the bay is Some of the brush is impenetrable, he noted that Shannon's body was found north of a trench about Th three quarters of aile where she was last seen Formmer Suffolk County pololice commissioner Richard Dormer said at the time that Investigators believe Shannon drowned 're succumbed to the elements. He said she traveled at least half a month three quarters of a mile on foot through that mp. It would be very easy to get exhausted and fall down and not be able to move any further And I get that M, if you're looking at Different scenarios differentere possibilities. I think you have to look at that one You also have to look at maybe Homicidal strangulation. I don't know. Look at him bo So leave them both open