Witness Accounts and Final Investigation

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Hello everyone and welcome to episode five hundred two of the True Crime All the timeim podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me as always is my partner in True Cime Mike Gibson. Give me, how are you? I'm doing good, man, and you? I'm doing great Yeah This episode is going to come out Kind of after Crime Con uh on the Sunday where we're coming back Obviously we're recording it before we go, so we can't really talk about how it went, but I'm assuming it'll be great. Yeah. We have some stories to talk about when we get back. Yeah, next week. We'll talk about it next week Let's go ahe and give our Patreon shout outs. We had Chloe Aird. Hey Aird. Stacey. Hey Stacy. Claire Matthias. thans Claire. Constance. love some Constance. Katie. What's going on, Katie. And Sally Ehard jumped out of her highest love Ever heart with a big old heart. Yeah, so we appreciate the new support. And then if we go back into the vault. This week, we selected Wendy Webster. Oh thanks WbleW. Okay. That almost didn't come out.most We appreciate all the support we get Um we have a brand new episode out right now in Unsolved where we're talking about twenty two year old Francesca Alvarado A devoted single mother, she took this trip to Atlantic City. It Sosed to be a one night trip in march two thousand two But she never returned. Yeah And then over a year later Parts of her remains washed up on the beach And then more parts started washing up Yeahah, it's a tragic, but very mysterious story So make sure you check it out. All right, buddy, arere you ready to get into this episode of True Crime all the time? I am We're ono part three on the Long Island serial killer In part two, we covered the discovery of additional bodies in the Gilgo Beach area The links among the victims and followed the investigation through twenty twenty two. In part three, we'll cover how a Suffolk County task force identified the suspect as well as his arrest and background. in february twenty twenty two Suffolk County Police Commissioner Rodney Harrison. and Suffolk County DA Rre te Ray Yeah. Tyranny form the Gilgo Beach Homicide Investigation Task Force. Investigators initiated what they called a comprehensive review. every item of evidence in the case I think that's a good thing to do. It's a great thing to do. It also must be you know pretty painstaking underndertaking Kind of hard to say Yeah. but I kind of funny. I think in that Line of business, it's going to be like that. Yeah, I think a lot of things when you're referring to type of investigative work I'm sure is a little tedious looking through and maybe rel looking through they always say it. ust can be one tiny little thing Well, I think that's true. That can, you know, take the case in a certain direction just six weeks later on march fourteenth, twenty twenty two They had identified a man named Rex Human as a suspect The police looked further into Amber Costello's phone record. twenty ten Her roommate had mentioned that a client was calling her nonstop before her disappearance and murder, Police knew that the client used a burner fire They also knew that Maureen Brainnard Barnes, Megan Waterman and Melissa Barthellum Also receive calls from Burner phonone So there's a tie in most likely there. And we talked quite a bit about it. the similarities, right between These victims and The burner phones was one of those Back in twenty twelve, the police with the help of the FBI determined that Most of the burner phone calls received by the Gilgo For. connected to cell towers inside a small area of Massapeiqua Park Village on Long Island. This area became known as the box. Okay. All right. I mean, it's cool what technology you can do and they can zone in on that. Okay I like the sound effects. Yeah You're, u Assuming that's why they're called it the box because they've like boxed it in. Y basased on the description of the suspect in the Amber Costello case The twenty twenty two Task Force began searching for a large man lived in this area and owned a first generation Chevy avalere I mean Odds are good. they should be able to find somebody that matches that description. Yeah. an Ogre driving a Chevy avalanche shouldn't be that hard to find A Chevy avalanche was registered toirectxchheran at the time of the murders And it's six foot four You know, he kind of did match the description And I'm not saying every guy that six four is an ogre No, but you know, he wasn't Slim Jim the raindrop Dodger either. I mean, kind of looks like an ogre. He's he's pretty big guy not just tall. He's poorly as well. The discovery of the avalanche led to a comprehensive investigation of Hran When investigators checked his personal phone records, They discovered his phone was in the same area as the burner phone when they were used to contact a victim in Massaequa Park. We're in midtown, Manhattan, where Human works This was also true for the calls received by Melissa Barthellomei's family in two thousand nine And we talked about those, right? They were nasty. Yeah. I mean the things that he said about Melissa things that that he said about her sister, Amanda Vile Stop. But here's a guy thinking You know what? I'm going to get a burner. I'm going to get a burner phone and I'm going to beat the system. sureure But he doesn't think Enough about it, right? becauses he's still bringing his own phone with them Right? carrying it around just because he's not using it Yeah Yeah, I get it. but It also may be could be a couple of things. It could be not understanding fully technology, but it also could be thinking, well, they're never going to connect me to the burner phone. So what does it matter? Yeah, that's true. Where my regular phone is According to court documents, investigators could find no instance where Human was in a separate location from these other cell phones when such a communication event occurs good for him. No, not, not good. not not the nail in the coffin, but it's not good at all In total, there were seven Burner fact Shortly after each victim died The phones were disposed of Now when you look at it like that, it's even worse, right?ure. It's not like they just connected him to one phone They connected him to seven different phones. Each one of the previous ones was disposed of right after a victim died. Yeah, and those burner phones were connected to the victims, right? And I think if you're investigators, right, you're maybe in the war room making these discoveries and I mean, people are probably high fing. Oh yeah. They're probably cheering because this is such a big unsolved case at the time In twenty twenty three, officers observed Human, putting money on one of his accounts at a cell phone store in midtown Manhattan He used the burner phones to send selfies to solicit and arrange for sexual activity according to prosecutors H American Express records revealed urring Google payment payments made by Racks to tender to a burner phone A review of call records for two additional burner phones revealed both phones were used extensively between twenty twenty one and twenty twenty three for prostitution related content. So obviously he had a Tension greatreat word for seex workers. Yep. I think that's very safe to say The task force also documented three email accounts using fake names, such as John Springfield Thomas Hawk and Hunter nineteen oo three A three all linked to the burner number You know, the good thing there is we did not hear the name Rex West. Oh, I was going to add that in. They also found the name Rex West associated to One of these burner foames Between march twenty twenty two and june twenty twenty three One of the accounts Linked to Human searched the internet for sites related to active and known serial killers, The specific disappearances and murders of Maureen Brainnard Barnes Melissa Bartholomey Meghgan Wermman and Amber Costello and the investigation into their murders as well as thousands of searches related to sex workers, sadistic and torture related pornography, and even child pornography. U Okay I mean, obviously we're talking about a very nasty vile individual. We know that based on the murders and everything, but you know It just keeps getting worse, right? the more that comes out I think you know, if you take all of this stuff in a in a vacuum by itself I say this in a lot of episodes Okay, it doesn't make you look good, but would it be enough to convict? No, probably not. But you start stacking all of these things on top of each other. And it does become Bery slam dunkish at a certain point But look at this guy. I mean he He's kind of fool of himself, right? He's gone out searching on what he's done. Yeah. But is that unusual? For a serial killer? No, they like that, right? They like to Read about themselves. Yeah Now we're in the Innet age. So this guy can very easily search for things about, you know, crimes and the things that he's done. The other thing is we know that In the past, serial killers have revisited crime scenes. I mean, they do all kinds of stuff. One specific search was, why hasn't the Long Island serial killer been caught I guess it's a good thing the guy didn't have, uh chat GPT back in the day. Oh man, you know, because he would have been asking it all kinds of questions. The task force began surveilling Hran at the beginning of twenty twenty three onn january twenty sixth of that year The surveillance team recovered a pizza box that he'd thrown into a trash can on fififth Avenue which was sent to the Suffolk County Crime Lab for annalys All right, they got to get the guy's DNA And I'll be honest with you man, I'm always fascinated by the links that the authorities will go to to try to get someone's DNA, whether it's tailing them, surveilling them, waiting for them to drink out of a straw and then you know, pouncing and picking it with a glove and throwing it into a baggy or whatever it is Now a pizza box is a little different, but DNAs on everything pretty much. My DNA's all over here I know I'm not happy about it either On april twenty eighth, twenty twenty three, a detective hand delivered a mail hair found on Meghgan Waterman's body that had been presented as evidence to the same lab. On june twelfth of that year The lab compared the DNA from the pizza crust and the hair and determined that the profiles were the same And that ninety nine point nine six percent of the North American population could be excluded Oh that's huge. It is Um, now is that you know, the one in However many trillion numbers that we're hearing, you know nowadays, No, but It's still a very, very high likelihood that this is him. And then again As we're stacking the building blocks of a case That's just another thing. that is u you know, going to doom him prosecutors wrote, It's significant that Han cannot be excluded from the male hair recovered near the bottom of the burlap. used to restrain and transport Meghan Waterman's naked and deceased body Yeah, I mean, basasically saying He's the one that did that. Yeah to the exclusion of ninety nine point nine percent of All the people in North America Yeah. However, advancements in DNA technology allowed for testing with mitochondrial DNA I You know, hairs that were found with each victim they were worried because They were too degraded to test for DNA with kind of the old technique. Yeah So these advancements were huge. Makes it tough, right? Yeah it would have been impossible if they had tried to do this you know, let's say Five, ten, maybe years earlier Goodness for technology It's helps solve a lot of cases. especially in the area of DNA for sure Back in july twenty twenty two, Eleven bottles were collected from a trash can outside Human's home. and send for DNA testing DNA profiles were generated from the bottles and were tested against previously tested hair sam from the remains of Meghgan Waterman and Amber Costello. The hair belonged to humans whitees Asa Ellera. However, investigators did not believe his wife was involved in the murders and the hair could you know, be explained by somethingomething like As simple as a transfer because they did live together. Yeah I mean, that I don't think Everybody realizes, I'm sure a lot of people do because, you know, our viewers and listeners, they're smart, right But I don't know that everybody realizes that You know, we're just transferring hairs and DNA all over the place. Like I said Mine's all over here, I know. And please stop saying it I've heard it enough and I don't want to think about it I mean, how hard would it be for You know, we ate dinner together tonight before we started recing our episodes And it was me, you, my wife, my daughter I'm sure my wife's hair's all over the place, right? Yeah. My hair's all over the place How hard would it be to attach to your clothing thenen you get into your vehicle, you drive home now My hair, my wife's hair, is in your home Yeah, you're Your wife's hair or your daughter's hair. Let's not go as far with your hair. but from the back I have some in the back still that could, you know, theoretically fall out But you have to think, you know, that's very possible. Yeah. and I'm sure I do have Somebody in your family's hair there U, I mean, or at least your dogs or cats too. You're here every week. so it's going to happen. The chances of it being in your vehicle and probably transferring it into your home I'd sayir pretty high. But the fact that they have his wife's hair I think that's that's another confirmation, right? I mean, it's not his But it's his wife's and how else could that get there? Well Either she's involved, which they don't think she is O it's because he's a murderer and he happened to have the, you know, one of her hairs on him and it somehow ended up on the victim I hair from Amber Costello's remains was tested and also matched the DNA on a bottle Prosecutors wrote that this meant it is likely that the burlap pape vehicles and other items used in the murder came from humans I mean, I think the one thing you'd have to say is it is not looking good for Rexs humor I mean, they are just builduing Brick after brick against him Here's the thing about true crime. It's a constant reminder that life is unpredictable. We can't control everything that happens, does. 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Sign up for soFi checking and savings at soFi dot com slash AMa today SoOFI Checking and saavings is offered through SFI Bank NA member FDIC terms apply Rex Sherman was arrested at his office in midtown Manhtan on july thirteenth, twenty twenty three At the time of his arrest, he was carrying a burner phone linked to an email account used to conduct suspicious online searches. This man is like the burner Phone King Yes Probably own some stock in it. Well, I'm assuming a large part of that is because he's married Yes, doesnesn't want his wife knowing all of this stuff. I mean, this is aside from the murders. Yeah, is right This is becausecause he is cheating. he's. Obviously on teinder and soliciting sex workers and doing all this other stuff in addition to they believe are these murders that he committed. I mean, he's takaking ogre selfies. Yeah, sending them out to, you know. I think he's probably got it a little further south, but maybe I don't know what this guy was doing Oh man He was charged with multiple counts of murder for the death of Melissa Megan and Amber Curean appeared in Cord on july fourteenth and he pleaded not guilty to three counts of first degree murder And three counts of second degree murder Court documents released after his arrest noted that while he wasn't charged with the murder of Maureen Brainnard Barnes, he was the main suspect to me That just means they didn't They didn't find any DNA. Yeah Match But you know, let's go back to You know, where were the victims dumped, right? The proximity It's hard not to believe that one person didn't commit All those merk So How could he not be the main suspect There is a certain level of evidence needed, right to charge Herman's defense attorney Michael J Brown told reporters that The accusations were circumstantial. And Han denied any involvement. he said The only thing he did say as he was in tears was, I didn't do this He's distraught. he's clearly distraued about the charges here? Oh it was ers It' six foot four ogre just tryrying his eyes. But yeah, I'm sure he is clearly distraught Who wouldn't be if they were charged with multiple murders? Yeah, because he knows what that means Yes not going to be good Now, if you didn't do it You're distraught for a number of reasons, but even if you did it, you're still distraught because you got caught. Right. So And what's he going to say? Yeah, I did it. Yeah, some people do, but At least not up front, they're not. N not in the beginning. You don't want a cave right in the beginning during a press conference Suffolk County Police Commissioner Rodney Harrison told the media, Rex Hurran is a demon that walks among us predator that ruined family man's a demon. Right here. They broke me. Yeah I don't argue with that one bit Commissioner Harrison added Human had a double life. He had a wife, he had two kids He was an architect And then I guess at nighttime turned into a You know, we've heard this before with other serial killers, right? Yeah Unfortunately, a lot of them do lead double lives And when it all comes out, their families are shocked. Oh my gosh. yeah, I mean they they can't even comprehend it. And u, I don't even know how they They poured off I mean, when you think about it I don't either I kind of sometimes think back to You know, we both love the show Daxter And Obviously a certain point in that show, he got married. Yeah. And he, I mean, he was leading a double life from the get go but then he was really leading U a double life and had to be even more careful because You know, he's got a wife and then at some point he has a child and and all of that. I think about the second episode we ever did on DCat that you did on TCAat of the ice band And then were you not there? We We redid it later. Oh, that's right. I did I had to do it by myself for some reason. Yeah Why was that? Because you wanted to see how the podcast would go without Giby sitt next to you? Oh, that's true. I didn't like it. Yeah. I did not like it I remember You know, he was like When he was home, he was like this perfect family guy. Oh yeah and actually a good B family guy But we know when he left, he was killing people. Yeah. He was a serious serious hitman. Suffolk County DA Rammond Tranney revealed that the investigation involved over three hundred subpoenas and search warrants does seem like a very high number. That is a high number The task force had to balance evidence gathering with public safety. They wanted to allow the grand jury investigation to go further, but they also felt like they had to take this guy down Yeah And and I I understand the balance there, but I think they did the right thing because this guy's walking around with another burner phone. He is talking with or soliciting sex workers I mean Isn't it just a matter of time before he claims another victim. Very true You're been in, uh Part of a grand jury I am not. Part of a grand jury. is the subject of a grancher I've definitely not been that DA Tyranny said, when we decided to take down the case, we, you know, it was a sudden decision We did see him contacting a number of sex workers usingsing a burner phone, which obviously is concerned Tierney said about humans internet searches There was a lot of torture Corn and depictions of women being abused being raped and being killed This guy was sick. He was sick in his actions, but also Sick in his fetishes. Oh yeah And I'm sure some of that maybe had or played a large part in what he ultimately decided to do in real life, right? Some people and keep their fetishes even when they're sick separate from real life esn't sound like he could or didnn't want to either way. Yeah, he decided to cross into the world world Herman was conducting searches on the task force. Even on the victims acccording to tyrany He was searching for pictures of their families and trying to locate those individuals So he could call them and harass them dririve by their house and get a sick thrill out of that. I think he really did Get off Maybe literally as well on doing that. I assumed when you said that you were you meant literally, but I think he looked at the family members too because I think if He found somebody that resembled The victim. I think it really did something for him and to the point maybe he wanted to See if he can Get a hold of them. Maybe Yeah you may be onto something there Pice spent the next twelve days searching human' property They dug in the yard and seized T hundred and seventy nine weapons Wow Wow Whoa, and ninety two handgun permits from a walk in vault in the basement. Investigators also took Famed pictures and a doll from the home and searched a nearby storage unit They brought in ground penetrating sona and Cadaverog Ting to think what this doll must have look like You say doll or doll? doll. Oh doll I can picture what the dog looked like. a doll, a regular dog I mean ye, I don't know what they mean by Dll Yeah I don't know if we're talking about like a cabbage patch kid here or or like that doll you The life size variety that you keep under your bed, which u You always tell me not to talk about, but I'm bringing it up anyway But let's go back to two hundred and seventy nine weapons Yeah. you know, I understand A lot of people, they like to have something to defend themselves, to defend their home I don't know why anybody needs two hundred and seven Nine unless you're going to start an uprising or Arm a small militia and ninety two handguns. I mean Well, ninety two handgun permits. Yeah, permits But that would mean what? Probably have ninety two handguns somewhere. Yeah Why some many a'tun? By so many guns, period or weapons, period. Investigators seize the first generation's Chevy envt I cannot say the word avalanche for some reason You know We're going to go with it from his property in South Carolina. According to law enforcement sources, investigators were looking into whether any victims killed a human's home I mean, I think you got to keep everything on the table. Absolutely att this point And I think you also have to wonder and we're going to talk about it as we go. I mean, how many victims could this guy possibly have Much more. att this point in the investigation, right? You have to be thinking that How prolific of a serial killer are we dealing with? Residents of Massa Pequa Park told CBS New York, they were stunned. by the arrest Han's next door neighbor ATN De Villier said We've been here for almost thirty years and the guy's been quiet never really bothers anybody. China What you hear something We hear it all the time, you know, right Great neighbor. This guy he plowed my Dryveway of snow. He helped me bring in the grocery You know, this guy's quiet, he never bothers anybody. That's because he's plotting a murder twenty four seven He doesn't have time to bother anybody else. You know, everybody knows somebody that's super quiet and never really says much. Those are people you gotta worry about.ight You know. See, I am very talkative you, on the other hand Reserve and less verbose. Yeah Hence There's probably something wrong with you Well, there's no doubt there's something wrong with me. I don't think wever We're really talking about the degree at this point, right Former neighbor Rosemarie Kafka told NBC, you know, the regular guy who goes to work has kids in the local school and in a good neighborhood killing people on the side And I do think that would be shocking to notot just family, right? It's going to be unbelievably shocking to your wife and kids. But Also, neighbors You know, you've been living next to this person for years and years and years All of a sudden, you find out that Investigators think he's this very prolific serial killer Yeah, there's going to be some discussions. Absolutely. at at dinner around that So let's talk about Rex your He was born on september thirteenth, nineteen sixty three And he grew up in Massaiqua Park in a quiet neighborhood where everyone knew everyone. It was said that he was born in the house that He was raised in Okay, so Long u long term Hommstead Okay Um, well Most people are not born In a house? No, that's true. So I think you're skipping over that part. I think that's the main part. His mama popped him out inside the house. Yes. I think is what they're saying. Yeah After the arrest, actor Billy Baldwin tweeted, Woke up this morning to learn that the Gilgo Beach serial killer suspect was my high school classmate Rex herean You know, Billy, you probably were super shocked, but yeah Well, I mean, there's so many bald ones. There's got to be a connection somewhere somewhere between one of them to some serial killer They graduated from Berer High School in nineteen eighty one You know, folks, it's summertime and that changes how I get dressed. You know, I want pieces that are breathable, easy, but still make me look put together. And that's why I just keep coming back to Quint'. You, Quintince has high quality pieces that feel and look amazing and the prices are unbelievable. Everything at Quint price fifty to eighty percent less than similar brands. This is because they work directly with ethical factories and cut out the middlemen. So what you're paying for is quality and not brand markup. 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VitaminX On the essential Rex's childhood friend John Parisi told forty eight Hours that they met in first or second grade. Herman was bullied And he never fought back despite the fact that he was big enough to physically retaliate against his enemy. I just didn't want to,u? Maybe he was scared. I don't know Obviously at some point he was six foot four and he must have weighed over three hundred pounds. He was a big guy And then as Rexs got older, Girls rejected Right It was said that his awkward stage, which we all kind of go through one just lasted a lot longer than other people's Looks Kind of looks like he'd have an awkward stage that lasted a little longer Yeah I mean, he had a strange look to him. Yeah. Rex's father, Theodore Human died in nineteen seventy five at the age of fifty. His mother, Dolores U I think even right now is in her nineties and as far as I know, she is still alive So it sounds like maybe his mom was more of the role model for him Not role model, but the person that Um care of them becausecause his dad dying at, you know Died pretty early. Pretty early. Yeah, I see where you're going with that Classmates previously said Rex was bizarrely close to his controlling mother and described him as a mama's boy Yeah, I can see that I can see that. kind of It's the u Ed Gean And his mom kinda contontrolling and He was definitely a mama's boy So much so that he wanted to We're suit But it was said that he'd often kind of leave hanging out with friends saying, I have to get home to my mother. So you said Ed gain, maybe we got a little Ed Kemper here. I mean Obviously Ed had his own issues with his mom, but Kurean never spoke about his father to friends. However, he later bragged that his dad was an aerospace engineer. built satellites He also said that his dad built cabinets and taught him how to construct furniture In nineteen ninety, Human married a woman named Elizabeth Ryine in nineteen ninety four, purchased the house in Massaiqua Park. from his mother for one hundred seventy thousand dollars shortly after His first marriage failed. It was said that He kept everything exactly the same from his childhood So you mentioned homestead, right? long term homestead And now you find out what it really was long term because Not only was he born in this house, he grew up in this house, but then as an adult, he bought the house from his mom and made it his family I mean, I don't say this is like, you know, the Bates Motel or something, but I'm getting a real strange vibe Clearly this was where he was Comfortable at probably njoyed having that as his main house. But here's the thing It's not weird to buy a home from your family R a home that you grew up in Jim did it on the office and him and Pam moved in. Yeah But Do not change it at all keep it the way that you were when you were a child That part seems very strange to me I find it strange. And I think other people did German founded his New York City architecture firm, RH consonsultants and associates. in nineteen ninety four per the company website. His firm was located blocks from where Maureen Brainard Barnes disappeared. and the same area where several phone calls to Melissa Bartholomey's younger sister wereae. Herman worked with major clients, including Target foot locker Catholic charities, American Airlines and New York City's Department of Environmental Protection He was Connected I mean, it sounds like he was doing pretty well for himself, right? He had a company, He was an architect I'm sure that huge companies like Target and American Airlines and Footlocker love the fact that they are connected to Rex Human anyway According to his website's meet the team page Throughout the years, Rex Human has provided services to other city agencies not for profit agencies, builders, developers and individual owners of buildings in regard to ADA, NYC And New York state codes as well as zoning consultation. It sounds like the firm was successful. By. Yeah. I mean, I don't understand half of that, Yeah. I mean, no one I know. I That's your language Mensa Yeah. And you are an architect slash doctor slash attorney Slash catch me if you can I'm just a humble podcaster. I worked in the architect field. I learned from You know, Art Vandel So I learned a lot Yeah That's why you had that license plate that said As manan. Exactly Be you were also a practologist But no, I mean, I think when, you know becausecause we do talk a lot about the victims and you get a sense of who they were as a person It's also important though to talk about human You know, what was his background? What was it likeike growing up This whole kind of mama's boy thing is a little strange.ure takes it. Because I think a lot of guys are moma's boy, to Ma's bys to a certain extent, right All right, you love your mom I get that Are you wearing her bathrobe or Are you not changing the house becausecause mama wouldn't like it. I mean I just don't know how deep we are here There's something there. There is And it doesn't seem write to me You know, we were talking about, you know, he went to school and won the Baldwines and then he started this firm. All these people You know is this is coming out in the news. I mean, the people he works with, people, clients I mean What are they thinking? Are they just shaking their heads? Are they like? Yeah, I'm assuming they're making a call real quick saying, Hey, can you please get our name off your website For sure As soon as possible to some admin somewhere Also, though, like twenty seven percent of all Americans probably went to school with a boald one at some point. And I'm not just even talking about The last name Baldwin. I'm talking about the Baldwin family of actors. Yeah Oh, you know, me and Stehven went to school. I know, you know, there's a lot of bald onins There is. So We said that You know, he had married, his marriage fell apart. thenen in nineteen ninety six, Human married Asa Eller an immigrant from Iceland Aa had a son named Christopher Sheridan. She and Rex had one child together They had a daughter named Victoria Han ASa usually took the kids to visit her family in Iceland During the summer Police believe Human killed the victims while she was away You know that was the opportunity time for him, right? The When the wife is gone Husband will play I mean you know, we talk about And I think you asked the question, right? How do you do all this stuff when you have a a wife, children, you're leading this double life. How are you pulling it off? Well, I think this is one way you know, if The wife and kids are gone for an entire summer Well That's a big opportunity to Go out hunting do all this stuff with the burner phones and all of that that you probably couldn't do as easily if everybody was home. Totally agree It was said that the family lived in the rundown home. R that he was born in and generally kept to themselves But Human stood out to his neighbors because he was a large man who dressed very formally for work And he did, didn't he? I remember seeing some pictures of him. He's really suit and tie guy and tie, but yeah like like custom well, he is six four probably was custom suits. So it was like Shrek wearing a suit. Yeah, I think is what they thought He wasn't green, but He was tall, he was big His neighbor, Barry Oslander told AP that It was strange how the house was a dump but Kurean commuted to work each day wearing his suit and tie And it is strange, right You own your own architectural firm. You're working with Target and Footlocker and American Airlines yet You're living in a dump. You don't want to spend the money on your own home to dress it up, make it look better. It seems weird neeighbor, Gabrielle Learto also told the AP This house sticks out like a sore thum. There was overgrown shrubs There was always wood in front of the house, it was very creepy. I wouldn't send my child there It sounds creepy Inem pretty good thing you didn't send your child there. Yeah Purean's friend David Jimenez said about his family life per the New York Post. He ruled that house like the old nineteen fifty style family trraditional Right? He was very secure, very much a man, but in a very secure masculine way, not in an obnoxious way. He looked after his wife and kids. He would protect AsSA He would look out for her when she was suffering from, you know, many of the physical ailments she has especially later in life. think he has a split personality because the only side I ever saw of him was as an assured, smart together guy, you know? Yeah Not surprised you could have that? Well, I'm never surprised because again, as I've said and you've said it too I do believe These types of individuals They allow you to see what they want you to see They're putting that forward. Yeah. They're not showing you The bad part of themselves They don't want to show you the demon. No They want you to think that, hey, you know, This guy's all right. He takes care of his family Now he might live in a shitole, but you know, he's u He's a nice guy and he's a good neighbor. He's quiet I mean, far as you know, when I leave here, I just go home I don't assume that at all. I assume I assume you take out your burner phone Which you're not showing us, you've got your real one here Yeah, but you take out your burner phone, hit tender and Whatever happens after that happens. Christ Y girlfriend's gonna love that. What That's for you. He's just joking. No, I am not Oh, my kids. that's funny I think Gibbs, the thing for me here, right is when you You talk about Rex Human He wasn't like some serial killers you have some who are loners. Yeah. They don't want to draw any attention to themselves But not this guy. This guy is more of you know, What you would think of maybe along the lines of a John Wayne Gacy He's out there M mean he's got . an architectural firm He successful. He had a website His information was all over the website. 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Every listing is one of a kind, and the best things go first, so you have to move fast Stay big on your favorite brands. Shop now for up to seventy percent at fromrebel. com He was interviewed by Antoinomira a food and beverage manager in New York who also loves real estate. He interviews people who he thinks are interesting and accomplished Rex Human was well known for finding loopholes to help companies and individuals get buildings. whichich is, you know, a great skill to have. Yeah. becausecause, uh doesn't want that who doesn't need that at some point, if you're a business So this Aira guy thought Rex was pretty smart. He would later tell forty eight hours that There was nothing about here made him think he was dangerous Throughout the interview, he noticed that it was hard to get him to smile. Hran described himself as an architect an architectural consultant, a troubleshooter When a job that should have been routine suddenly becomes notot routine, I get the phone call He explained how he was born and raised on Long Island and had been working in Manhattan since nineteen eighty seven His niche was troubleshooting with the city's Department of Building When he was asked how he got into that, he explained that the first architect he worked for was a man named Harvey Rutenberg. In nineteen eighty seven, a new law was issued regarding handicap access, he had to read the law because he was the new guy at the firm. So he reads this And when there was an issue with the city, he was sent to work it out He did so Well with it that his boss made him work with the city for another job and that's how he got started. Came this me. subject matter expert. Yeah, I haven't heard that term in a while U But let's go back and talk about this this guy on YouTube There was nothing about this man. who made him that made him think This guy was dangerous. Yeah dangerous to him, let alone a prolific serial code And that's what I think is scary about a lot of these serial killers is that they're able to pull some of these things off Right Be successful have a wife and kids, a family And then on the side, they are hunting and for and murdering Yeah. I mean, I think there is this somethingomet that clicked with him when he was with his victims Turn him into this monster But outside of that Sound like he was just a Kind of a regular guy. Yeah, outside of that. yeah, better make that caveat. O Was that always there He just didn't show putting on the other part is him putting on the show. Well, that's true. The nice guy I don't know But you know, you want to think of the serial killer is the guy that you would spot on the street, right? The Henry Lee Lucas type. Yeah, not the Oh, who's the The Ted Bundy tie. Ted Bundy, BTK, you know. I thought he was kind of weird looking. Did you think he was kind of weird? Yeah I think I would look at BTK and be like, I don't know about that guy. But Ted Bundy was, you know, he's a pretty normal looking guy. Yeah Um obviously went to law school and all that. Now Henry Lee Lucas Oh he Yeah, I'd cross the street if I saw that guy thirty yards down the way mean You know, he and Audust, they had like one tooth between the two of them. I'd be like, kids get in the car, we're leaving the town. Youd like, Chevy Chaseing vacation. rooll them up. You roll them up So All right, so he's got this kind of niche that, you know, he's good at and he's Working for this guy who was doing a lot of work for nonprofits And German started working with building codes drawings for facilities. And u He said that German did that he quickly found out that The building department couldn't even understand their own codes and their own laws. So Part of his job became kind of educating the system the city about their own codes Yeah, that doesn't surprise. It doesn't surprise me either. Th then when he started his own firm His first paying client was Robert Mey Herman recalled that he was in the Queen's building department waiting in line And Meyer was dealing with a clerk didn't know what he was doing Purean was impatient. So he took his paperwork, explained to the clerk what he needed Th explained to Meyer what he needed to do next Kurean was asked what qualities a person in his position needs? His answer Patience and tolerance He said, I don't like to use the word tolerance, but sometimes you have to And it's not just with the city, it's also with the client because most clients They don't understand what I have to do Why I have to do it and what it takes to get done When asked what the job taught him about himself, he said it taught him how to understand people. Dealing with the technical aspects can be learned, but dealing with people is an interesting aspect of the job So there was one last question. in this interview. And it was asked of Han If he was a tool or an object that would help him bring his business to greater heights What would he mean I think this is a strange question, but you know, ye He answered, I build furniture at home and I still build it in the same exact workshop. I have one tool that's pretty much used in almost every job And it's actually a cabinet maker's hammer It's persuasive enough when I need to persuade something That's interesting. It is. Yeah And I don't know if he's talking about just making cabinet So we' talking about something else. but the interview actually asked Someone persersuade something, not someone So it's just a real kind of Interesting back and forth. Now it wouldn't have been until it comes out what this guy is. thoughtought to have done Human's wife, Aesa filed for divorce in july twenty twenty three just days after he was arrested She was told to leave the home with only the clothes she was wearing and wasn't allowed to return during the twelve day carch investigators seized all devices in the house, including the ones belonging to her and her adult children Her attorney, Bob Macedonio, said she was as shocked as anyone else. She had no idea any of this was going on Nobody wants to think that they've been living with She sleeping next to a serial killer for the past twenty five years. I'm sure she was physically ill from all this. Yeah. I mean, does it surprise you that she files for Divorce immediately upon learning of this doesnesn't me either Macedono said about the family, their life going forward is always going to be the wife or the children of a suspected serial U It's not Bob. it's going to be the wife and children of a convicted Serial killer. We haven't gotten to that part yet and he didn't know it yet Melissa Moore, the daughter of serial killer Keith Jesperson, set up a go fund mee for ASA, which raised over fifty thousand dollars ASA was diagnosed with breast and skin cancer Gureerman was the sole provider, so she lost her Health insurance he was arrested. at least somebody is stepping up to help her and you think Oh, this is somebody knows what she's going through Yeah And, um you know, she was, uh part of that whole y face killer, the daughter of the happy Face killer. Yeah. I don't know if you watched that did. She was the daughter of the Hay face German coworkers Murel Henriquez and Maryichell spoke to forty eight hours after his arrest They were in complete shock when they heard he had been charged with murder. Murio recalled that Rx once gave her a sweater that his wife brought back from Iceland Most likely the same summer he killed Maureine Brainer Barns in two thousand seven This is Gary sweater or the fact that he killed someone the same summer? Yeah, and just that relationship, you know, it' Here's your partner, somebody you worked with. Yeah. Well, you and I worked with a lot of people over the years. Yeah, many people someome We may have suspected of being serial killers. sureure we did But to find out that someone actually was that you had worked with for you know, let's say, five, ten, fifteen, twenty, twenty five years. That would be very shock. It would be. Even if you thought they were a little strange and possibly could be to actually find out they were would be strange And what does this do for your living too, right? I mean, if you if you have a partner or you work at his firm I think they were partners. I think he owned it. Yeah, he owned it. They were working at his firm, so now what? Now you're out of a job. Just like his wife Right? I mean, that's horrible. She has like these very serious health conditions And all of a sudden, she has no inser So Emmy, it just goes to show you, right? how many people are affected by these actions of these serial killers. Murel said there was nothing that seemed frightening about Rex. A little bit of a nerd in a way. He liked to talk about himself and what he knew, not a narcissist, but you know, a bit of a, you know, I know everything kind of guy Yeah, we know people like that She said Rex was an avid hunter, but she was surprised to learn that the police recovered almost three hundred firearms from a vault in his basement. I'm still shocked about that. Yeah, that is a huge number Now she did recall one strange incident that she said threw her off. She had booked a cruise to celebrate her fortieth birthday Rex asked her where she was going. She said she was going to be in the middle of the ocean and he wouldn't be able to find her. He replied, Oh yes, I can Okay, it's creepy. And I said it as creepily as I could. Yes, you did. During the second day of her cruise, a white envelope was slipped under her door with a note from Rex that said I told you I could find you anywhere goosh. Okay that's either I guess kind of cool or it's very, very creepy. Well after everything comes out, it's D deffinitely creepy. Yeah, It would obviously be creepy after the Mary Shell started working for Racks in the summer of twenty ten when she graduated art school. She spoke to former female employees who felt disrespected by Rex. For example, he would ask a woman in the office to clean toilets if he thought the cleaning staff didn't do a good job He would also make comments if a woman gained weight Okay, so one of those type of guys. Yeah, which is kind of horrible, but Eespecially since he was, you know, again Not the skinniest guy in the world A woman named Nicole Brass later came forward and told forty eight Hours that She may have survived an encounter with Ghererman She's now a hairdresser, but she used to do escort work And one night she was solicited by Rex Hurean During their date, he seemed excited to talk about the murder She said he was very detailed And it didn't seem like somebody who was just a true crime fan. Yeah. It seemed like somebody who as they talked about it, was kind of reliving it in their head Like he seemed exxcited is interest. He sat up straighter, he relaxed his body He seemed like really excited to talk about Jack, I need e Or just ye, open the door, let me out, whatever the situation situation was. He also talks specifically about the bodies on Gilgo Beach She said he wanted to like really get into it Like he asked me how I thought they could get rid of the bodies without being caught in that area. And I said, like, I've never been over there. I've never even seen Gil Go Beach And his response, well, it's really dark and desolate O course, because he knows. He does know Nicole left a date early. She recalled, I'd never gone anywhere and like felt fear My gut was telling me I needed to get away and I never had that before Somebody was looking out for her that night. Well, or she just had the right She listened to her gut. Yeah. It worked for Neighbor Eien Devi Lier have a hard time saying that. You also reported that his wife once caught human peeking over the fence at her She was sunmade He complied when he was told to stop De Villier said that he never saw a streak of violence though in Rq. Again, you're not going to see the monster Normally, I don't think unless the monster wants you to see. That side just trying to, you know, Fence is probably like six foot. he's six standing. Hey, I'm not peeking over, man. I'm just I'm just standing here. just here.