Verdict and Legislative Impact

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Yeah, which is hard to believe But it also means it's time for a really big case. 'cause on the big milestone numbers, we always do a really big case And um, I won't spoil it by giving it away But it's going to be a multi partarter and we're going to do them all on video and audio. so Excited plus My contract it says on episode five hundred I get a steak dinner that night. So I think you've had enough dinners, free dinners Is Is that a bad subject? Ten years of free dinner. Is a subject at this point? Nah,, it's all right All right, buddy you ready to get into this episode of True Cime all the time? Yeah, I'm ready. We're talking about Samantha Josephon. In march twenty nineteen, college senior Samantha Josephson was kidnapped and murdered during a night out with friends When she got into a car that she mistakenly thought was an o. So I mean, that's scary first of all. Yeah. But her case led to the passage of both state and federal laws Ehancing rides share safety. Because you know, let's face it And you and I have talked about it many a time There's something that comes out Let's say it's New technology, a new service Everybody loves it Right? They do. What you don't think about is kind of what's the dark side? or what could be dark side of things, you know, think about the internet I mean, who wasn't fascinated with the internet But there's a lot of danger that comes with the internet What happens is we figure out, okay, what the danger is and then we put something in place to try to prevent it from ing again Samantha Josephson was born in Princeton, New Jersey to parents Seymour and Marcy Josephon She lived in Robinsville New Jersey W wonder if you're born Princeton? Are you automatically Just a little bit smarter I would say no. No I'm going to say no. That's like, you know, if you're you're born in Boston, near Harvard? are you automatically a little bit smarter I like these apples, I think so. Maybe. Maybe Marcy Josephon said at a court hearing that the family called Samantha sweetpee bubbly, kind and full of les And sweepe is kind of a cool nickname N not for me, but I was J justust checkking. Yeah. I don't want to be called sweep peie. C can't call you sweepie. No, I don't want I can probably get that girl. I don't want to start that, but At the time of her death, Samantha was a senior political science major at the University of South Carolina in C Columbia, South Carolina. I think it's Columbia. Yeah Nice little town Yeah You know University of South Carolina. They're in the SEC. They have one of the To me, what is one of the strangest nicknames, The game cocks. Game cocks, ye. seems like Kind of a strange one, but Tancy Bird I don't really know what kind of bird it is I do know that There are people in the students section at like Football and basketball games that have hats that say no one can lick our cocks. That's I do know that And I always got a checkle out of that. You always maybe a little softom I did. D you wonder when they like the marketing team Hey, I know what the logo is going to be. Is there somebody in that room snickering? Maybe we shouldn guys. And somebody came up with that You know, that statement. Yeah. Samantha's father, Seymour Josephon, said that she enjoyed her time at the university She absolutely loved it there. She was a game comp And I think people you know, they they really a lot of people do. they get just so entrenched in their university. that You know, you go to the football games or the basketball games or whatever it is I mean, that becomes a part of you I mean, it is a big part of your life. Yeah So I mean, I think You know, I mean Rround here, if you go to how state, I mean, these people Bkeye You're buckye And even if you don't go there because you live in and around that area You're a buckkey and you're where the The scarlet and gray colors and you fly the flags that. I wonder if it has to do you know, whether it's a bigger school or a school that's known for a certain sport, if that plays more of a roll into it because we have smaller schools here around us and Nobody really talks about Oh, they're a big fan of that place or right. That place was awesome or So maybe that has something to do with it. Probably Texas think about, you know, I mean, I can I can't see over here, but I don't know why's great's it's good pod, but I don't know what you're doing. you know, I mean, o yeah. Yeah. I mean, you're a huge. I didn't even go to Kentucky and I'm a huge Kentucky ball Yeah Fan At the time of her death, Samantha had been working at the Liberty tap. brerewery and grill for several months She was in a long term relationship Greg Corbishlely who said Samantha was the love of his life Samantha was murdered in the final weeks of her last semester of colege She was preparing for an exciting new chapter after graduation And He, obviously it's tragic Anytime a young person loses their life And Obviously, we're going to talk about that more Then you think about couple of things First of all You know, what was that person going to go on to do? Well, you're not going to know. because their life was taken away from them you think about being just a few weeks away from graduation, rightight at the finish line. And what that is like in your mind whether it's high school, college, whatever, that's like one of the best times. You know like you can see the finish line and you're just kind of coasting in because most of the stuff is already done. you might be finishing up some exams and things like that, but I don't know, it adds like an extra tragic layer to it. If I agree with you Samantha wanted to be an attorney and had already been accepted into two law schools. She wanted to practice human rights law or international you know, that's that's that's awesome. uh I love international la I know you've dabbled in it time to time I don't know how you have time with your medicine practice and all the other things you have going on the gigs Rex West has, I know. But there's no doubt that I mean, she was u she was an intelligent person She had recently told her parents that she was offered a partial scholarship to Rutgers, laaw schoolchool in New Jersey and Draxel University School of Law in Philadelphia It's impressive. Yeahah, it is Her parents plan to come to Columbia to surprise Samantha on march thirty first, twenty nineteen On the night of march twenty eighth, which was a Thursday Samantha went out with her roommates in the F Pos area of Columbia which is a nightlife hub in the city They were out into the early morning outs march twenty ninth, two thousand I'm sure it was hopping and whatever the cool words are the day, but I'm sure it was like hopping probably wasn't it. but I get what you're saying Yeah. Yeah, I mean you think about any big college The nightlife scene is usually pretty healthy That's a great word for it Yeah. And The fact that they're out into the early morning hours of the next day doesn't surprise me at all because I remember being in college and that's just kind of how things win Plus, you know, it coming to it in, right? The school years Yeah So people unwinding. And you're probably celebrating even just a little bit more She was with her friends between one thirty and two AM or called the bird dogs Samantha somehow got separated from her friends So she decided to call in Uber Around two AM She was captured on surveillance, standing outside a bar At one point, she approached a car But it was not her Eber Then a newer model black Chevyian pol hold up to the curb Samantha mistakenly thought it was herber and got into the back of the vehicle at two and nine AM The car drove off with her and su. And You know, let's talk about Uber for a little bit. and there are other companies as well, right? Lyifft and someome other ones that have been around here and there. You know, you think about Uber or before the days of Uber. Yeah. You know, when we were younger, And if you needed to ride somewhere You better have a friend or a parent or somebody because There was no stranger Who for money was going to come pick you up? Now maybe there was, but it wasn't Yeah. regulated or legitimate or No, like you said, you had't K somebody and to find a pay phone to call them to come get you because that that's how it had to be. Yeah. and unfortunately I think probably what that did Was it It did lead to a lot more people Driving drunk when they shouldn't obviously have been driving I think Uber maybe went a long way with that because People stopped just driving to bars altogether. They would get an Uber to go to the bar Kning they could drink, do whatever they wanted. thenen they would just call an Uber or some car service to take them home later. I mean, look There was a period of time and right before the podcast started you dabbled. because you just wanted to experience it, which is another story, but you wanted to experience it. so you uber I did a little bit. And boy, did you have some great stories? It was fun. Yeah. We loved hearing you come into the office, you know the next day and tell us about your ubering the night before. I Uered for a whole summer. Yeah. Mainly because I was bored. and I was looking for kind of something else to do But then what happened was I took all the money that I made from Uber, And that's how I bought the podcast equipment. You did. Yeah. That's what led to the the podcast. So but it it was fun. I'm not going to say it was fun every single time, but It was interesting. Yeah. There's no doubt about that. And I know you picked up your fair share of people that We' Oh, a lot of yeah, a lot of people were So Samantha gets into this car It drives off Hours later, Samantha's roommates became concerned when they couldn't get in contact with her Samantha's boyfriend, Greg Corbishlely was also worried. He was over two hours away in Charleston, South Carolina where he had moved after graduation Now he had been on the phone with Samantha throughout the night and later said he was tracking her phone to make sure she got home safely He said he knew something was wrong Moments after she got into the car He tried calling her, but She didn't answer He went to sleep thinking she left her phone in an Uuber. When he woke up He learned she was missing and he drove to Columbia what a nightmare. Yeah, it would be Yeah, you're a little worried Eventually you got to go to sleep, right? You can't get in contact with the person. You're obviously probably not thinking that the worst has happened because most people don't think that But what a shock to wake up the next morning and find out that that she's missing At one thirty PM on march twenty ninth Samantha's roommates reported her missing after failing to get in contact with her, at three forty five PM Officers from the Clarendon County Serheriff's office sixty five miles southwest of Columbia received a report two turkey hunters found a woman's body in the woods off a dirt road near the town of NewZion. And it doesn't surprise me, Gibbs that hunters would find a b I mean, how many cases have we done where Victims' bodies have been found by hunters. It's a lie. It's a high percentage. It really is a high percentage And I think there's a reason for that. You know, if you think about where some killers decide to dispose of bot. But usually place that they don't think anybody's going to visiting anytime soon Where do the hunters usually go places where not a lot of other people go Yeah, they want to go to Th less populated or non populated areas so they can Finally Whatever they're looking for hunting. Yeah I mean, I don't go hunting but I'm assuming that's a good strategy. The body was found in a heavily wooded area. with farmland nearby Few people lived in this area Investigators said someone would have to know How to get to the spot where the body was found. indicating that the killer was familiar with the area. Local. local. We hear that quite a bit. Right? If it's the beaten path that you know, someone not from the area would even have an idea about A lot of times it does give the police that indication that this has got to be someomeone from around here or else They would have had no way to know about this body wasn't immediately identified, but by the early morning hours of march thirtieth. The victim was identified as Samantha Joseph Samantha had wounds to the head neck, face, upper body. leg and foot Cornnerers report listed her cause of death as multiple sharp force injury aroundround eight thirty PM On march twenty ninth, The Columbia pololice issued a missing personal alert for Samantha with a photo and surveillance image showing the black Chevy in Pul Around three AM on march thirtieth An officer pulled over a black chehevy impala Just two bl. from the five points. The driver attempted to flee on foot What was caught He was identified as twenty four year old Nathaniel Yeah know, neverever good, right Polleice try to pull you over you immediately jump out the car and try to run for it It doesn't scream out, Hey, I'm an innocent person. Not at all. It's like, Oh shit, you found me. I gott to make a run. Yeah, because why else are you running for it or making a run for it And then it got worse because officers searched the car and they found a large amount of blood in the trunk and interior of the vehicle Testing confirmed. It was Samantha Josephson's So here's this guy that As the car she got in He looks like he's trying to make another tempt, right? He's down there by the five points sounds like This is something that He might like doing Yeah, or becausecause I can't imagine that He's trying to pick somebody else up with a bunch of blood in the interior. I'm thinking this is not that long after, he just hasn't cleaned up yet. He just hasn't cleaned it up yet. That's what I'm thinking. but You I don't know. Could be wrong You know, it's dark out I lights come on when you open the doors but maybe somebody gets in, they don't notice it Maybe he was out hunting It's hard to say for sure Samantha's phone was also found in the passenger compartment along with Bleach sanitizing wipes and window cleans That does not look good. None of this looks good H Nathaniel, right? You already tried to run for police when they tried to stop you unsuccessfully, they caught you You've got a crime Sen Yeah. a whole forensic labs dream inside of your car And on top of that The victim's phone. is found in your car And you got a bunch of cleaning agents. So. P hard to get out of this one. Yeah. I mean, it would be You know, a lot of cases that we do Like less Sunday's case It didn't look great for that person? I wouldn't say there was ton of smoking gun evidence, I would call this smoking gun evidence. Oh absolutely. I mean, is really incriminating. The car's child safety locks had been activated, which meant the rear doors could not be open from the inside. I hate that. Have you ever been in a car in the back when they had those activated and forgot And then you get somewhere and everybody gets out and you go to grab and You're like, hey You gotta let me out of here. I can't get out. Well, first of all, you know I don't ride with anybody else. Well that is true. I always have to be the driver Yeah That's just a quirk of mine been like that Sounds like a drive. I do not like BeCcauseuse the one time I did, I got into like a rollover, six rollover accident Yeah when my buddy was driving and ever since then, I'm not taking that chance. I don't want to to really ride with someone else. Now You've experienced a lot because that's how cop cars work That's a different type of locking system, but I just think that they should have I mean, I love that they have this for child safety. Yeah, because you don't want a child being able to open a car door jumping out at high speed. I just think there should be some type of override for an adult sitting sitting back there that they can hit. certain button that the kids can't find or I don't know. I'm saying if you can do it, I'm sure a kid can do.ably true. is the problem But You know being said If someone has something nefarious on their mind Well, that's a I guess a good way to keep someone from getting out of your car So it is a little scary for that standpoint But it also is just like everything, right? Somebody has a good idea, but it doesn't mean somebody can't use it in a way for which it wasn't intended in a bad way 'cause there's a lot of things that you could say that about. I guess you could always look as you before you get in, look at the door ee if that little switch has been up or down and to see if it's got the child lock on it. Yeah Nathaniel Roland was charged with murder and kidnapping. Columbia Police announced the charges against Roland on the evening of march thirtieth noting that he had recently resided in New Zire and was familiar with the area where Samantha's body was found. Roland waived his right to appear in court Samantha's mother, Mercy Josephon, said, She was disappointed. They didn't get to see his evil face in court sure she had some choice words and some choice looks that she wanted to give them. Both. Yeahah, I would think so She said at the bond hearing is quoted by WLTX Unlike him, Samantha valued human life and could never harm another soul Unlike him, Samantha had love within her heart pose in her life the life he brutally ended. He took away our daughter a sister, a granddaughter, a niece, a cousin and a friend to so many his selfish, unspeakable and violent actions have created a hole in the universe. a hole in our universe And we seeee the unimaginable ripple effect on our world. How well that was said. Yeah, I think that really sums up probably what a lot of s feel Yeah. or victims' families feel is like They just have this tremendous voice in their life And there's nothing that's going to fill it, nothing that's going to replace it becausecause that person is never coming back. at least They know who did Yeah, is it Great. No, your loved one is still deceased and was murdered But we on our Unsolved podcast talk about a lot of families who not only have that but also have the added pain of never finding out exactly what happened. And more importantly, who was responsible and that person never gets brought to justice. So I mean, it's hard to say that there's a silver lining, but I think that's a att least a good thing that that this person was caught, captured They know who did it In the aftermath of the murder, many expressed concern. about the safety of rideshare apps. And you could see why. Yeah I mean You think about the number of people use those types of services and how it's grown through the years since they first came along a lot of people use those And let's face it There was a time when You didn't know who you were getting in the car with I mean, technically you still don't know, but you have a lot more information about the person. Yeah I think nowadays. Now you get what what the car is supposed to look like and maybe even sometimes a picture So you get a lot more information on the app, An Uber spokesperson issued a statement in early april twenty nineteen the red Since twenty seventeen, we've been working with local, law enforcement and college campuses across the country to educate the public How to avoid fake ride share drivers Everyone at Uber is devastated to hear about this unspeakable crime. And our hearts are with Samantha Josephon's family and loved ones We remain focused on raising public awareness about this incredibly important issue That's a statement from Uber I'm sure they mean it, but they also have to put that out I do. I mean Let's face it No company wants to have A murdered link to them in the media I'm not saying that The guy's lying because I'm whoever was was lying I'm sure they did feel that But they almost really have to say Yeah come out. They want to put something positive out. Sure. Yeah att a vigil for Samantha, Seymour Josephon said, He planned to make it his mission in life. to keep others from suffering the same as his daughter. He said, Samantha was by herself. She had absolutely no chance, none The door was locked Yeah I couldn't get out Yeah. He urged those listening to him to take their safety seriously and to never be out alone at night. Let's be honest, You guys are drinking, leaving the bar or whatever it may be. If there's somebody else in the car, there's actually a chance And there is some validity to that I mean, there's that old adage, right? There's safety in numbers the buddy system Yeah know, it doesn't mean that Someone couldn't attack two people but are they less likely to And I'd say the answer is probably yes. I agree. We have covered So many killers on this podcast And the one thing that stands out about Most of them, especially cereal killers is that they prey upon people who they consider to be vulnerable people. Yeah If you're alone, you're more vulnerable. than you are if you're with somebody else. I think that just goes without saying. Safety and numbers I think that's true He also wanted to ask rideshare companies about improving safety for passengers. Nathaniel Rowand's parents, Henry and Loretta also spoke out after his arrest saying, They believed in their son's innocence. And their hearts went out to Samantha's family Wow. startarted here that they believe in their son's innocence. Yeah Yeah, it doesn't surprise me though. I mean, you know, think about all the now we normally talk more about the victims family But You have to in some cases talk about the perpetrator's family as well They're going through something They are But I think of a lot of them especially when it's like their son, their daughter. Have a real hard time believing that person they raised could have done this horrible thing. I mean, if they haven't heard about all the evidence And they just heard that The police believe he's the one that did that. That's one thing. but And I get it, you never want to believe your kid can do that Right man, when you see the evidence. Right, but it could be in spite of the evidence And also, we don't know how much of the evidence was public, right You know, some of that may have come out later at trial, but we're telling it you know, in a and maybe a different chronology But still, I think some parents even with all the o Yeah, haveave a hard time facing the truth. Yeah. My baby would never do something like that I think that's, u somethingomething that happens quite a lot Henry Rowland defended his son, saying he's a good kid. Ain't no way in the world He could do And I think a lot of parents, again, would feele like that However, Henry said that if Nathaniel was guilty He would have to pay the consequence saying, if he did it I'll be the first one to put him behind bars. lock him up and throw away the key That's that's a good Follow through on the question, you know, that he was you know, Yeah, because he's saying, hey, I just can't believe or we don't believe that he did it. But if he did, if he's guilty You need to pay the price. Yeah So I'm with you. I think it's, um It's a very Pragmatic way to look at it. Yeah, you want to believe your son is innocent. but if it turns out he's not You're going to feel bad, but he deserves to to be sentenced. Just wonder if you're you know, a parent one of these killers Do you feel Like the responsibility. like do you feel like Maybe we didn't raise them good. Oh I guarantee you. Yeah I guarantee you, there's a ton of guilt. There's a ton of questions Um, what ifs, right? What if we did this differently Is there something we could have done differently? that would have maybe changed the outcome It cannot be easy on the parents of perpetrators either. Not at all Roland's mother, Loretta, also told WACH that Nathaniel denied the allegations. She said he's a very good young man And when I talked to him yesterday, he told me that wasn't him And I believe again This may be before Right? All of the evidence came out, right Days after the arrest, it was reported that Nathaniel Rowlling allegedly sold items stolen during another woman's alleged kidnapping months earlier And that's pretty sccaary. It is is that makes you believe that This was not a one time Event Now, it may be the only time he murdered. it may not be But it's certainly appears as though it wasn't the first time that he had done something along these lines most you could almost be a serial kidnapper An Possibly, we don't know On october nineteenth, twenty eighteen, a woman told the police that Two men carjacked her while she was at a traffic light Columbia, she was physically assaulted and forced to drive to an ATM to get money The suspects made her drive to her home where they took items from inside and then fled the scene Hours later, deputy said Nathanel Rolland sold some of those stolen items including a Playsttation four at a pawn shop. Authorities trace the items to the pawn shop and arrested Roll. He was charged with obtaining goods under false pretenses Columbia Police did not indicate Roland was involved in the Cjack And that to me makes it sound like he wasn't that he somehow or for however reason, got his hands on some of the stolen goods later on. Yeah and then Maybe he was the one task with Haing all of it. And u had to give some of the money to the other people, I don't know But if he was involved in the carjacking, he would have been charged with a lot. I think so too The University of South Carolina held its spring commencement in may twenty nineteen Samantha's family attended the ceremony and received her posthumous degree C just talk about heartbreaking. Yeah. speaking She should be here Absolutely. So what she worked hard for President Harris Pastides honored Samantha in a speech saying, I'd like to take a moment to recognize and honor the life and legacy of Samantha Josephon O cherished twenty one year old senior political science major whose life was tragically taken from us Fellllow Gamecocks class of twenty nineteen We must ensure what happened to Samantha never happens again to any college student or indeed to any person asking what's my name before getting in a ride share vehicle will save life It's a true statement. Yeah, and I remember this pretty vividly when it happened That was like a big thing coming in the aftermath of it, which was start asking these rideshare drivers, hey, what's my name? One of the many things, There was a bunch of different things that came out. But even something as simple as that, right? I mean What's the odds that A u Fraudster. is going to know your name. Yeah, complete stranger. Yeah Yeah, I mean, it's better. it doesn't cost anything Easy to implement Anyone can do it Nathaniel Rowands Murder trial started on july eighteenth, twenty twenty one prosecution presented numerous pieces of evidence Pointing to Roland is the killer The jury heard that someone unsuccessfully attempted to use Samantha's Devon. at an ATM in Sumter aroundround five AM. on march twenty ninth Surveillance video showed someone wearing a bandana attempting to access the account pololice figured out that Roland's phone was in this location at the very same time How many times have I said it Digital footprint Cell phone data Tacking it, it all comes back to bite you. Really does I still It is hard for me to believe people get away still with as many crimes as they do. I am surprised as well all the new technology that we have, all the cameras that are around I heard a special the other day on that geofencing and really how far they can dial that down to And it's amazing P pretty crazy P crazy if if they actually needed to use that tool and the courts give them the rights to do it. They can pretty much show up at your front door Whit is going to stink if you just happen to be in an area and you didn't have anything to do with it you know, to me if it leads to finding the real kill Let's just say a killer Right in a murder Is it that big a deal to have police ask you some questions Again, some people will say, yeah, it is. It's an invasion of my privacy. They don't want it. I understand that To me, I wouldn't have a problem with it. I know I didn't do anything wrong. and if helps lead to the right person, I would be more than happy to to answer some questions. I think you're going to have that be fifty fifty, I think. Yeah. I think a lot of people are going to say no. Yeah Where does it stop Right. And it is a slippery slope. Yeah. You do have to be careful with some of those things Roland's phone then traveled to his girlfriend's home Roland's girlfriend Maria Howard testified that She and Roland had known each other for years. And in march twenty nineteen He was staying overnight at her home regularly On march twenty eighth, she asked him to wash her workshir and left her work visor in his car He was home when she went to bed. But when she went downstairs early the next morning, he was gone. He didn't answer her text and eventually showed up in the clothes he was wearing the night before which Normally doesn't go over well. Men and women That's exactly right. In any type of relationship because It denotes that one of the people was doing something they shouldn't have been doing. I would say more often than not, it's fair or something like that. Yeah. less likely that it's murder, but it could be There's still a story that has to be told. Where were you? and what did you do? Yeah, And if you were doing something you shouldn't have been, you're still going to have to come up with a lie. Yeah She noticed that her work visor was missing know, she asked him where it was And he said he'd been out in the country and no longer had it because it had blood on it Okay, that's a strange response. Why not just say I don't know what happened to it.. You know, why go to that extent? Again Maybe we're not talking about smartest person in the world. I have no idea what this guy's IQ was, but It is a strange thing to say becausecause now You have to believe there's going to be a follow up question. Oh absolutely. How can you tell that to somebody and not expect a follow up question. Yeah because it's going to be Okay, so now tell me Why was there blood? How did it get in your car and thenen you have to come up with an answer for that But when she asked him why He told her, mind your business. Mind your business. I bet that went over well. Yeah. So apparently you don't have to come up with a lie. You can just tell someone to mind their own business. Yeah. Roland briefly left to take his nephew to school When he returned, he had her work shirt It was wet When she got into his car so he could drive her to work She noticed dry blood throughout the car which worried her and as it should I think anybody should be worried if They see, you know, drive blood all over the T Later that day, she got a ride home from a coworker When she returned She found Roland cleaning the car with bleach and wipes He continued cleaning the car and the multi tool in the passenger seat as she drove the car to pick up her Okay He was really trying to get it clean So. Yeah, I mean, We need to get the blood out before we go pick up her daughter Apparently this is the one car and it has to be used by everybody. so, um, Not a lot of options. I'm still you know, again, I get it I don't know what this relationship was like. Yeah. And there is someome people who No at a certain point they can't press any further. because it's going to get out of hand, but I would have a hard time being satisfied with the mind your business in relation to this question of where all this blood came for sure But you have to be somewhat concerned too that he's cleaning this multi tool I mean, I know you have several multi tools. I have five of them in this Studio I love multiols. and I know Some of them can have a fairly large blade inem. Yeah. Most of them have a fairly good sizeed knife. Yeah blade. So I don't know if that maybe could have been The weapon used Yeah, I mean, we may talk about it. Yeah When they returned home, Roland left and returned with a rose gold iPhone It looked like a woman's phone Rowand said he was getting it ready for her She didn't need a phone the time She asked about the blood again repeatedly But again, he told her to mind her business Mind your business. I'm telling you right now I don't know too many peopleople that would with that I don't know many women who are okay with the mind your business Yeah routine. but also All of a sudden you've got You got me a rose gold iPhone when I don't need an iPhone. That's got to be kind of a a strange thing as well. iPhones are not cheap Exactly. as any of us who have one know When she saw a news report about Samantha Josefson and the suspect vehicle all started making sensor But she didn't go to police because She was scared for herself and her daughter. After Roland's arrest, the police talked her. Obviously that's when all of the, you know, the information we just talked about would have Come out. I mean, I feel I feel what feel bad for her because I understand herer concern, like I can't Go to the police and risk and finding out And now me and my daughter are at danger d. yeah, if this guy literally just killed somebody Yeah then Is he going to be Um that worried about killing you or your daughter If he thinks you're going to put him in jail That's a real fear. it is. There's no way around that. The jury heard that during the early morning traffic stop on march thirtieth, Roland cooperated until he was told that his car match a suspect's veh. That's the point where you got out and fled Roland thought he got rid of the evidence But it comes back to the clothing This was according to prosecutor Daniel Goldberg Roland was wearing the same hooding. seen on the ATM surveillance video Gloves seen on the video were found at his girlfriend's home The shoes and bandana from the surveillance video were found in his car solid Yeah, pretty hard to argue. And then you have Samantha's DNA It was found on Rolland's Beanie Her blood was also found on the bandanna He hadn't gotten rid of those items because he didn't see the blood O Yeah You and I talk about blood a lot And that's the one thing you hear You know, whether it's trying to clean up a crime scene. Or When you murder someone up close and personal and there's blood spatter. You have no idea where that blood spatter is going to go and You know, you can wash, you can do all types of things. But you're not going to catch all No, you're not. unless you strip down and you literally burn everything you have on which He thankfully did not do, right R But that's what you'd have to Everything you had on and the vehicle with it. Yeah because Short of that They're going to find it. if they if they know who you are Samantha's blood was also found on the multiol which was found in the trash at Maria Howard's A DNA expert would testify that Samantha's DNA was found under Roland's nameail But his DNA was not under her namening and unidentified individual's DNA was found on the handle of the multi tool Samantha's DNA was found on the boy So You know, it's looking like you were you were right about that This multi tool that he was trying to clean is looking like the murder weapon. Samantha's footprint was also found on a window inside Roland's car. Yeah, which is You know, was that her trying to kick the window out orr was that her struggling during Both Both maybe But either way, it's heartbreaking to think about. Absolutely. What she went through in the back seat of that car Dr. Thomas Beiever, a forensic pathologist, told the jury Samantha was stabbed over a hundred times and had facial injuries that looked as if She was draed The stab wounds were parallel which is unlike a traditional knife and would have had to have come from something unique. He believed the multi tool was the murder one overver a hundred times. This guy's a monster. Oh yeah. I mean that is hideous. The multiol has two parallel blades bend at the tip. I don't know. Every multi tool is a little bit different I don't know what type of multitool has two parallel blades. likeike I said, I have a bunch of them, but I don't have any that have parallel Bade's on her Dr. Beaver also testified that And the body typically holds a gallon of blood. but only twentyw milliliters blood which is about two tablespoons was found in Samantha's body indicating she bled out. Yeah I mean, if you're going be stabbed over one hundred times see that happening. And if it happens in the back seat of the car. Yeah Well, now I think, you know, we're we're understanding a little bit better. Why there was so much blood inside of that car And I just think about herer family. hearing this, learning this, right during during the different stages of the investigation and and, um, What that had to do to them. I mean, it's just devastating to hear your daughter was attacked like that. and then to hear that most All her blood. Drained out of her body. Yeah, I mean, it's got always has to be tough for the family, right? to sit in the courtroom And here holded details Yeah of what happened to your loved ones neck wounds to the jugular and carotid arrtery and a severed hyoid bone along with stab wounds to the head were lethal and cause the loss of blood Surveillance and video analyst Justin Mart testified that Roland and Samantha's phones traveled together out of the five points area for a short time before hers stopped showing up Roland's phone pinged until it went to a remote area in Clarendon County where Samantha's body was found The defense didn't present any witnesses. And Roland chose not to testify And what was he going to say Well, and I don't know what witnesses they would have Who are they gonna call? Yeah U I don't think you no alibi witnesses. No I mean, You don't call character witnesses Right? until moreore of the the penalty. phase. I don't know, mayaybe you can, but Normally you see that more in like the penalty phase of the trial. But either way, that doesn't it's not going to sway a jury even if they did have Some people like that During closing arguments, the defense noted that Roland's DNA was not found on Samantha's body And his DNA wasn't found on the handle of the murder weapon Roland had no cuts and bruises on his bx And there were two unidentified male DNA profiles found during Defense attorney Tracy Pinock argued that The narrative is getting skewed She noted that during the traffic stop Roland cooperated until his arm was allegedly grabed and another officer Lunch it She argued that Blood transfers easily which is why there was a large amount of blood in the car prior to processing the C. Detectives were in the woods in News Iire where the body was found Okay, I get it. I say it all the time I understand that defense attorneys have to try to pull something out of your h. This it's a stretch 's not even trying to pull something out of their hat at this point. It's pulling something out of Yeah. the opposite end. Yeah. Yeah, I get what you're saying they have to do something for their client to make the claim that this large amount of blood that's found in the core was dragged in there by these cops. came from the woods That doesn't make any sense to me Samantha's body was found in the woods, but there was no dirt or debris on Roland's clothing Three pairs of shoes in his car had no B. First of all, who has three pairs of shoes in their car I don't even have three pairs of shoes in my closet No, but you got about twwelve pairs down here. I know there are a lot of people who are into shoes. Yeah. I get it I'm not one of them, but u But But what does that mean? Okay, so there's three pairs in there that don't have any blood on them Maybe threw one that pair away , do you mean the pererry was wearing? Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I don't know H what the absence of blood on that means I do know what the presence of blood on other things means and what it would mean to the jury Pinnock also noted that Maria Howard's DNA was found on bags containing bloody clothes Rolland's DNA was part of a mixture of DNA on the multitol, but he was not a major contributor. Pennock argued If the state is going to tell you that Josephson did not have Roland's DNA on her because he was wearing gloves But there is his DNA on the tool that is contradictory in their closing statement The prosecution argued that there was no other credible suspect. And the killing was cold, malicious and intentional Well, the last part I agree with The no other credible suspect argument. I mean, I think if I'm a juror. I'm not putting a lot of stock in that just because you don't have another suspect Yeah Do doesnn't mean this guy's guilty. Now if you want to point all the evidence, okay You can do that. I don't like that statement I guess. I see what you're saying, just because To me, it doesn't mean anything Although Samantha freely got into the car the moment she began fighting to get out It became a kidnap That is true. The prosecution also noted that if it hadn't been for the turkey hunters It's unlikely Samantha's body would have ever been found because No one would go out there unless you were a local. hundredundred Yeah, I was just going to say that was a local. I mean, that was a A fortunate discovery by the hunters. Yeah, because if her body's not found thenen You would have lost a lot of evidence if it was found much later on And if it was never found, this would be one we would be having on the other podcast Or they would have had to try it as a no body case, which obviously makes it harder, ands harder. Even if they thought it was him, no doubt It's hard On july twenty seventh, twenty twenty one, Nathaniel Rowand was found guilty of murder and snds to life in prison Before sent saying, Roland told the judge, I know I'm innocent But I guess what I know and what I think really doesn't matter Not really. I mean, your girlfriend said you were sitting there had blood in your car, you were clean, had wipes. I mean You know what you're doing. Yeah, I mean, there was a lot of evidence. Yeah, right stacked up against this guy I get it. What's he supposed to say? Yeah, you got me He's going to argue it right? I mean, why wouldn't you want to ar right? You're going to continue to argue it hoping that somebody change the outcome But it's not going to happen. No. it's not going to happen Since Samantha's murder, state and federal legislation has been passed to enhance rideshare safety. In june twenty nineteen, South Carolina passed the Samantha Josephson Ride shharing Safety Act The laws mandate stricter identification and safety regulations such as illuminated signs New Jersey passed Sammy's law also required illuminated signs for ride share vehicles On january fifth, twenty twenty three Joe Biden signed Sammy's law, which enhanced rideshare safety on a national level. Well, I think it just shows you this case did. Yeah It scared the you know what out of people as it should have. Over really was the lack of safety precautions or things built in to The whole ride sharing concept We're not even Just in college campus life, right? everywhere But I mean, think about No Y kids went off College, Sure. I got one still there. still there that could or maybe have taken Upers. Um you would want to know And There's the best protocol out there safety protocol. that can be used to help protect them And u You know, unfortunately back then, there wasn't So this is something good. I think it As a parent Thank you You never really sleep great when your kids. You don't. You dont your sleep somewhat better, right? Yeah you're gonna know. even nowadays when we have things like Uh The Apple apps or, you know, life three hundred and sixty, things like that where you can track loved ones' phones I can't go to sleep If my daughter is out somewhere down at school Now I stay up pretty late anyway. so that's not normally a problem, but I got to see her get home. I got to get that notification that she's home. Yeah before I can go to sleep The law required the government accountability office to submit biennial here. to Congress regarding the incidents of assaults involving drivers and passengers of four hire vehicles. such as Uber and Lifft It requires ride share drivers to display lighted signs and scannable QR code as a safety regulation and criminalizes misrepresentation being a driver of a ride sharing service. Samantha's parents also established the What's My name foundoundation to educate people about ridees share safety and advocate for policies that enhance safety The nonprofit created the Samy Akronan Just stop. ask match in form to encourage safety. I mean, that's awesome. and I remember her dad saying that He was going to do everything he could. He said it was going to make it his life's mission mission. Yes. And he did. He did. I think he did. But this is a lot of times what we see, right? in the wake of a tragedy especially parents. kind of Do something in the name of their loved one Number one, it's going to help a lot of people out But also it helps honor their loved ones You know, they named all of these acts and These are all good things that are put in play. Yeah, absolutely. But, you know, as we wrapped this one up, It's a pretty infamous case. A lot of people remember it You know, I can't help but feel and I have throughout the episode Fr the time that we talked about her