The Trial and Verdict

This is Chelsea Handler from Dear Chelsea. I don't know about your house, but at my house, everybody's online. streaming, shopping, Zoom calls, you name it. That's why having fast, reliable internet that can keep up really matters and why you need Optimum's famously Fast fiber Internet. It blows flaky five G homeome interternet out of the water. It has the fastest and most reliable internet speeds and doesn't slow down when everybody's online, which let's be honest, is all the time Right now, they have a deal that's tough to beat, just twenty five dollars a month for five years. So don't wait, call eight eighty eight for optimum. Visit optimum dot com or stop by your local optimum store today. famamously fast fiber for twenty five dollars a month for five years. That's a no brainer. Terms applly, see optimum dot com for details Girl, I can say with some confidence and I'm not kidding. This is the thing that has made me cry the hardest in nine years. Really? Yeah, yesterday like face down in the bed and then I started again this morning and I was like, Steve was like, you are you okay? And I was like, I really this is This is very well made. The music is what I feel like it's one of those cult talks where the music makes you cry, you know what I mean? And I just I was sobbed all the way through. I know the good ones are always heavy, you know, but let's do it. Let's talk yeah. I it He B Hello Pric Hines.. If you want to hang out with us hang with other TCO people, join us over in the Facebook or the Discord. Yeah, we have both of those things. They are both thriving and very nice and sweet and kind and fun community. And also I always like to say like moderated. So like Sashha moderatorors in there keeping it safe, making sure that it's a fun it's not just like you go in there, you can say whatever you want. Like it's a really fun, safe space on the interet. Yeah ye, yeah, in a good way. In a good way All right, girl, tellell me what I'm gonna stop through today. Yeah very highly requested. The trruth and traragedy of Mariah Wilson. This is on Netflix There was no forced entry into the residence. It could have been a home invasion, a robbery, but the more we started digging into it, it became likely that something else was going on Hollin Strland was the last person to see Mariah alive Colland was that first time You need farms? I bought a pistol and I actually never shot it. Nobody could figure out a reason why somebody would want to kill this person Grief is like a big mud puddle I feel a lot of guilt, but I told her mom she was okay and in good hands. rom Collin's phone, we realized he had Mariah and as Christine Walall. This was the area not SA for DNA. He raises all these questions of like, do you ever really know anyone? I said the only person I could think of that didn't like those was So we open with Mariah's mom and like all of this home video of Mariah as like a baby. And she says Mariah was born during a lightning storm. She says all of the energy there was all this energy around her. Her lungs were like thunder and that's one of the reasons she was such a good athlete And then the mom says this thing, and this was like the first time I burst into tears. She said, it was as if I had always known her. She was so familiar. And now we get to talk about Sean Colvin. Y. This is an identy six. Yes. Yes. And she's talking about listening to the song You're gonna make M lonesome when you go, which. Oh my God, Sean Colvin. is not the only song Seaan Colvin has everybody Just knowing that she was just listening to Sean Colvin in nineteen ninety six tells me so much aboutaren every little. I was like, goddamn it Seaan Colvin, this is not what we need right now. I just love that little tidit. I'm like, Oh, Karen, I know so much about you. I know. and I love that. This was the moment in like watching it through the second time that I was like, And like I think anybody can relate to this, but as a parent You just love your kids so much and you love them. It's like how you must feel about Fiona. I mean that truly. like everyvery day you love them more, you know. And it's like now the family is here to like relive this horrible thing that happened to them again and going through all of this like stuff from when Mariah was a baby and it's gota be so hard to do know I just can't imagine. I know. Her brother says It is interesting that looking back somehow her body or her soul in some way knew that She had less time than people And that's why she was mayaybe had that sense of anxiety, that sense of urgency underlying everything she did. And that's why she had that sense of urgency in everything she did. She was like such a determined hard worker too like she really just do what she wanted and she works her ass off for it. Also just like one of those people who was born naturally fit, I know she worked hard. I know, but there are those for whom the sports just come easier. People are just into the sports and the outside. And just if you don't know who Marah Wilson was, she's described as like a once in a generation athlete And she was a professional Gravel racing pitor. And that's like a hybrid mix of like road and mountain biking. What she did was crazy. L it's a very, very hard thing to be very, very good at Yeah. And we'll learn in a minute, that was like her second choice sport. I know. crazy. So it's may eleventh, twenty twenty two. It's weird. Today is may twelfth. It's always weird when that happens Which like it's not like time I know like time the world is going, the world keeps spinning, whatever. But it is weird when we're talking about something and it's so close to the day. Yeah. I agree. It's Austin, Texas, a city I love. nine fifty four PM. We meet Caitln Cash and she it's like this horrifying nine hundred eleven call. Everyone's gonna call her cash. We should call her cash because there's another Kaitln who sucks. This Kaitln's awesome. Good call. Everyone calls her cash, so that's who we're talking about. Bari iss very good friend, Cash. This is the nine hundred eleven call. Her friend was staying with her. She came home, found her in the bathroom lying in the floor in a pool of blood. She's not awake, she's not breathing. and then This nine hundred eleven dispatcher is like and they are all usually amazing. This nine hundred eleven dispatcher guy is walking cash through doing CPR on her friend. We're gonna learn later. this goes on for ten minutes. Yeah. And you're doing two compressions a second. CPR is literally exhausting. It's hard. And and you have to press so much harder than you think. She does this on her friend For I just think I was like, Cash is such a hero. And this guy like he said, you know, count out loud so I can count with you. and he's telling her like, donon't stop keep going. You're doing great. Like don't leave Mariah alone. They will come to you when they show up like just keep doing what you're doing. Yeah. And it must have been so nice to have that support Yes, yes. And the cops finally show up and they get cash out of the house and she says to us, I could not understand why they weren't bringing her down to take her to the hospital So finally, I asked the officer questioning me. I said Why is it taking them so long to get her into the ambulance? Like she needs His words were something along the lines of Your friend didn't make it One of the cops says to her, your friend didn't make it. Yeah. And so Cash tells the cops, you know, Mariah doesn't live there. She's just staying with Cash, but she was out with their friend, Colin Strickland. Yes. And so that's the first time we hear of that name. And then we cut back to Mariah's parents, Karen and Eric and they're out in the garden and the mom this is every parent's worst ight. She's like tending to the garden and looks over her shoulder and sees the cops show up to literally tell her that her daughter is dead. Like it's just it's the most destabilized. I can't imagine where it's like, but everything was fine. I spoke to her and they were in touch a lot. They were a very very, very close family. They are a very close family. Ming the people who have to deliver that news, want I want it to be a master's degree level training. It's not. than. But it should be I mean, I don't think anyone enjoys it in, you know in that way but there are better ways to do it. My mom was a chaplain for a while and like like obviously there's training on how to be with grieving families of people who are like there is a way to do it. It's just like what a horrible thing to have to do. And it's so personal and it affects everyone in so many different ways too. Yeah. We meet detective Richard Spitler, Aesome Police Department. This is my first homicide investigation as a lead detective I was definitely nervous. You know I didn't know what to expect. So he's real nervous. There's a lot of pressure. He really wants to solve this. I always think about like someday it was like some guy's first brain surgery. You know what I mean? Yeah Like this is his first day this is his first case is Don't fuck it up, Richard. Yeah. There's to that kind kind of like, how did we discover we could do this kind of thing? Yeah. One of my a very funny madman quote is Roger Sterling was a brave man who first ate an oyster they' eating oysters. Like how did we learn about popcorn? I guess we were cooking it and then like Cnels just flew off the fire and everyone was like, this is delicious. Let's put some butter and salt on it. but put it in a movie theater.ike The chocolate chip cookie happened by accident. They say that like a beautiful mistake. This is not That's beautiful. That was like a happen. It just like felt like apppparently, mean, that That's not a mistake. That's divine intervention That's a real like she was like let me help you out. Totally. Let me just let you And do I really believe this when you say like a bunch of chopped pieces of chocolate next to like a bunch of chol. It' like they don't together perfectly. I don't buy this st at all This is a fine intervention of God. She's up there and she's like, you know, it would be great. You know what they know really need right now? I'm really gonna put them through the fucking rigar everything out. So let me just like introduce chocolate chip cookies. I gave them pyramids now I'm giving them chocolate chip. So when they're crying with all the horr in the world, they can eat some chocolate ch.es. But it's gonna to come at a cost. A major cost girl, Wayfair is back. Now, listen, their whole thing is that your outdoor space should feel like you. So I don't have outdoor space, but my sister does. and my sister is super into Wayfair. So she is newly in a new relationship. They have this gorgeous patio. She got this, I am obsessed with it. It's called the Alicia Wicker patio Day bed with cushions. Look at this thing. I'm trying my camera's like h five star luxury hot.. And she like removed all of her old stuff, put this out there. She's got like deck chairs and she also got this table with an umbrella. It is the most amazing patio. I'm like, I'm moving to my sister's house for the summer. What an upgrade. like not a zillion dollars. Thanks Wayfair. Wayfair if I would tell you the price and it is not what you would think. That's amazing. So we're talking they've got outdoor seating, they've got grills, they've got major appliances, storage, patio lighting Rugs decor, Wayfare is your one stop shop for home, famam. And if you're saying like,, yeah, why I can't put this together, guess what? Destellation and assembly services are available for a truly seamless experience. They've got over twenty million verified five star reviews that'll help you make the right call, famam. These are real customers, real feedback, real homes. My sister is one of. My sisters been obsessed with Wayfare forever. She's had her eye on this day. she could not be happy. I mean this sincerely. I'm thrill for her. Thank you. I'. amazing. So famam, get prepared for patio season for way less. Head to wayfare dot com right now to shop all things home That's wAY fA I R d. com Wayfare, every style, every home Way fair, every style, every home So we see Cash being questioned by the cops and she realizes pretty quickly. I realized that I was being questioned a potential suspect Oh we took You know, DNA samples, I swabbed my hands, took my photos And eventually let me wash my hands She's being looked at as a suspect. Well because there're no forth century, nothing was damaged, notothing was out of place. This is not a robbery. She's the only person there. She made the night. Like they're just start close and you work your way out. there're looking at Cash. Cash is such a good person and such a good friend.. We see the moment of her with the cop where she is so concerned that Mariah's body is going to be alone. This is really heartbreaking because she's crying and she's like, so she's just by herself. like And they're like, no No, she's not and she says like so she's never gonna actually be alone. Like she just doesn't want her Yeah which is just so, so heartbreaking. and so real too. So real. And we learn how Cash met the family. So we're going back to twenty twenty one. It's East Burk, Vermont. She moves there as part owner of a bed and breakfast. I'm like, this is literally a TV show. Yeah, and she didn't know anyone. So she goes, I didn't have any friends in Vermont. So she signed up for women's gravel clinics and mountain biking clinics. I'm like, say what now? It's so Vermont. Like where I come from in Massachusetts, like they would do this to. It's very like Birkenstaken, you know what I mean. But also the stuff, it's not just like,h, let's macre It's like mountain biking clinics. like that is some serious stuff.. People who enjoy the hiking and the camping and the mountain biking, I was saying to my friend today, I got back into running recently. Okay. and I've been trying to run like a five K like every other day, but I do it on a treadmill because if I were to do it in the outside, I would be the guy that be like a mile in I'd be like, I can't do this. and now I'm a mile from my house. walk home L You're gonna be a runner every. You'd be a great runner. I'm bad at it, I'm terrible at it. I also don't like it. We'll see that' only thing., I won't, but you would be good at anything you tried. I have tried. I don't like it. But like how do you run badlely? I just hate it. Well if that's, thenen you don't have to. You know? Yeah. But I'll do. I like on the treadmill and then like really like working it out and like sprinting to like a song. Uhh and then not then spepeed walking.. G. I'm so glad that we worked this out. You told me some shit about pigeons before we started that I can't get out of my head. tellell them quickly. The thing is, well, actually, I'll shout them out. so Madison well yeah, but Madison Sinclair s me some booty shorts because look at her shop. it's the bummer shop, not an ad. I literally just handed them today. Yeah. She's awesome.'ve been having very nice DMs anyyway, one of the things and they have like badass things on like, oh, like punch Nazis or whatever. like things I really agree with. Of course. But one of them said we domesticated pigeons and then abandoned them and that's exactly what we did. And it's a fact that will I'll remember randomly and be like amn Someday I wanna do TikTok of like sad animal facts with Jill and just like really sad music. Yeah That's so depressing. But like, no, that's like look at it up. it's really shitty.ill And now they have this awful reputation. So we're back in Vermont with Cash. R remember she moved there to start a bed and breakfast. Mariah's parents are there to see Mariah Rerace. Her mother says was like what? The only time we ever saw a Ride race was at the rooted race. We were on the road, cheering her on and we ran into this girl. The only time they ever got to see Mariah race was this race. 'a I think she's racing like a hundred miles. I not exact. racer. So she goes all over the world to race. And it's hard, she's up in the mountains. It's not like the New York marathon where everyone is like crowding the streets. It's not like that. L these are really Imagine if you had like hiked your friend's comedy show, you know No, of course I would go. Wild horses. Yeah. Anyway, but so there's this race and Cash meets Mariah's family because she's like, oh, hey, like who are you here cheering for? And they say, our daughter, Mariah and And she's like no, and Cash is like, no way, she's my favorite.. they all love Mariah. It was totally meant to be. And so Mariah and Cash They don't actually meet for a couple of months. They meet at another race months later, Cash. She's like a racer, but she's doing it at like a human speed. And then like she gets like like a two day headst. Mariah does twice the distance Cash does in half the time. Let me tell you something about Mariah Wilson. She was insane at what she did. She was like this gravel racing is just hard anyway. But she's getting first place all the time over hundred miles. She's doing this for five and a half hours at a time. Yeah. And like they say she starting from a young age Mariah had the natural inclination to be athletic She was very determined If she didn't do well, she'd be so upset. So she would just work harder She was just a natural born athlete from childhood. And this is where we learn that this gravel biking was her second choice because she started doing skiing. We get a lot of her journal entries in this. and at one point she says, I'm feeling wicked strong. And I was like, o, she's from the Northeast my people. And her whole goal was to be an Olympian. I want to be an Olympian so badly. One day I will, one day I will, go to ski school. Yeah, I will be the strongest and most hard wororking girl there that I am So she wants to be this Olympic skier. She's inspired by her father who was very close to making the Olympics and then missed by one spot. That's good. And the thing is that has to happen to somebody every single year. Yeah. What's that book and movie Molly's game? I don't know. where she was gonna to be an Olympic skier and then she like broke her leg and then she did the celebrity poker. Ohing with like Topher G and all those guys like that movie. What is I't know Jessica Chest Dan place her on the movie. Anyway, she was like, that's a real, she's a real person. Yeah, but she was gonna be in the Olympics and then like had this injury. Yeah. I mean like that She became a professional poker game.. That sounds so much easier. But like I always think like there's gott to be the one person who worked their entire life and missed it by one spot. It was Mariah's dad. I don't know obviously the qualifications. Yeah for that, but that's like You got to be a good jiern. But but it's also like, but you still We're amazing at it. Yeah. ye. One spot doesn't mean it's not like me missing it. Like I'm missing by by a hundred mile. Remember that woman, Gabby something incredible athlete who was like the vaultter. like she'd been a vaultter her entire life and she got to the Olympics and she fell. I think about she did like the thing with her face, and then she and Obama did it together as like a Oh. Like I always think about like you work your entire life for one moment and that's the bad vault. You have one bad vault in your year and it's at the Olympics. It makes me anxious sometimes think about that. It's too much. Be mediocre at everything everybody. Oh my God So shes supposes to becoming a professional cyclist. Everyone's like, G greatreat, go do that and be the best at it. And she is. We meet this guy, Alan Lim, who's a cycling coach and a sports scientist which is a very cool thing to be. The probability of winning in a bike race is really, really really low So for Mo Always be on the podium It was extraordinary. In the span of two years, she won like six or seven races. And not by minutes, not by I mean, she won things by hours She's winning by When I say she was insanely good, that's an understatement. That is so I feel like she's like going so fast that when she passes you on the course, you don't even see her feel the win. How wor Yeah. That is crazy. And like regularly. Yeah that was not a fluke. likeike's it's unbelievable. So it's twenty twenty two and Mariah goes to Austin for a few weeks and Cash is living there now and so M stays with cash. So now we see the bodycam footage of the cops going up to see this Cin Strickland person, who was the last person to see Mariah alive. And they went on a date the night before. We got to talk to this guy. For sure. And like it's so weird like because we see the interaction. and like they're like, do you know a person named Moe? and he's like, I don't know. Right away, this guy is very sus to me I sincerely hope they're playing dumb. I don't understand how this guy doesn't know the murder victim's name and also like seemingly has never heard the name Monica before, which he thinks her name is and it's not. it's Mariah. He's like, you know M M Monica Mque. And I'm like I knowude I know Murder victim and you're like how do you not know her name? I know Hollin is acting very weird and then he's like, yes, I do know her. They tell him that she died last night. They say that he has no reaction, but I'm like, he looks like he's processing this in real time. And like me and the cops and everybody are like, this is the guy. L last person to see her alive. He's acting really strange when the cops show up. He's gotta be the killer. Yeah, I'm not a fan of his and I never will be. Nobody is yeah Episod of Trumbsess is brought to you by Wild Grain. Tell them everything we're obsessed. Okay, Wild Grain is the first bake from frozen subscription box for sourdough bread. Yes, Artisanal pastries and fresh pastas. Fam, unlike many store bought options, Wild Grain uses simple ingredients you can pronounce and a slow fermentation process that can be easier on your belly and richer in nutrients and antioxidants. Plus, all items conveniently bake in twenty five minutes or less with no thawing required. And this is the kicker. Wild Grain's boxes are fully customizable. We get like basically boxes of bread. In addition to their variety box, they have a gluten free box, a vegan box and a new protein box. I have to tell you, I love sourdough. and Mike is a little bit of a bread snob in terms of like the fresh Yes, it should be soft. Like he's not eating like stale bread, obviously Bake from frozen, I don't know about this.ike we can give it our best shot and we'll see, but I have to tell you, it's so good. So good, so fresh. I can't believe it' from frozen. like blew my mind. We had it for dinner last night, then we had an event then we came home and we had put it in the refrigerator and I brought it back out, ate it cold, It was still delicious. It's just like dunking bread and butter. heaven So famam, imagine having fresh bakery quality bread, pastries and pasta at home without any trips to the store. And don't just take our word for it. They have over forty thousand five star reviews and have been voted the best food subscription box by USA todayoday for three years in a row. For limited time, Wildgraen is offering our listeners thirty bucks off your first box plus free croissants for life. When you go to wildgrain dot com slash tcO to start your subscription today. That's thirty bucks off of your first box and free ro It's for life. When you visit w Walgrade. com slash GCO or you can use promo code TCO I check out. The bread is so good. It's really delicious. I'm gonna to check out the protein box. So we meet Gunner, Mariah's former boyfriend And he just tells us that like she was strong, but not like too strong, like strong, but not in an egotistical way. Yeah. And he was her first real boyfriend, he says, and she was a sophomore in college and he had already graduated. Yeah, they do like the long distance thing for years. he moves to San Francisco and then she moves there to be with him. And it's like as soon as she gets there, she realizes how much she loves biking more than him. Yeah I really didn't like, you know, she was strong, but not like No I'm not in an egotistical way. I was. He's like, I also really liked that like she was kind of quiet because I'm not like that. Dunner.onner. This isn't coming off how you think it's coming off. The breakup makes a lot of sense to me as long. Okay. And he was like, oh, it was so hard for both of us. And Moe literally says to him I remember her saying, I am more in love with biking I find all the emotion and feedback and pleasure in my life from riding my bike And said kind of all I needed to hear She's so fulfilled from biking, she doesn't need him at all. I know. And he says that that was all he needed to hear. B Bab boom, they're over. Yeah. Th we meet like another one of Mariah's friends, a woman named Kimmy. she's a college friend. They mo in together in San Francisco in twenty twenty two. And what it really felt to me like in this moment was that Mariah really needed her women around her. Yeah, they were both going through breakups, they were out on their own. they were doing their thing. Like learning about being adults together. loved living together. They loved doing stuff together And then her mom tells us that like then Mariah is like suddenly ready to like get back out into the dating world. and like she's really drawn to people that she can learn things from. And also like this Colin Strickland guy, he's also a professional gravel racer. And we're told he's very good at it. And we meet the cycling journalist Ian and Ian's like, yeah, I know Colin through this world because I did a lot of stories and profiles on him because he was very successful at this. And it seems like he's sort of at the end of his career where's now he is Well, now he certainly is. but at the time The way that he's going to sort of explain it to us is he's kind of over it. and he's like doing other businesses. We'll get back to him. Well we talk to Maude and she's a gravel racer., she says knew that he had a history of manipulating women in relationships And I was aware of past things I was aware of ast And I'm like, Maud, say more about that Because it seems like there's a lot that people are not saying that they don't want to say out loud about Colin. And what they say is bad enough. L Libby, another gravel racer says that Colin had a girlfriend and did not act like it. So for example,, after a race, Colin takes Moe out for a beer to quote, give her advice on her career and like hype her up. and oh my God, you're gonna win so many events. but this was definitely, definitely, definitely definitely not a date Just a beer where he was praising her. And the whole reason is because of this girlfriend. So Colin's girlfriend is this woman named Caitln. Somebody says like Caitn is described as the girl standing right next to Colin that Colin didn't introduce you to. Like that is super humiliating because she was never at events and when she was there, he was addick to her and acted like they weren't together. And the fact that girlfriend Caitlin defending her but like That she was a joke to people. No to. It's like, Oh, was Caln here? Oh, yeah, she's that woman that Colin didn't introduce you to, but was standing right next to him. And it's like, can you that is humiliating. Yeah, the whole situation there is crazy to me. Like why would you stay with a guy like that? Why would you be a guy like that? It' And then he like we were hearing some like podcast interview or something that he gave in twenty twenty two He describes this like breakup drive with him and Caitlin, where like they're on the way home from somewhere and he's basically explaining to her why they can't be together anymore. But they stay living in the same house. They just move into separate rooms. Right. Yeah, me, I want to slow down on this 'cause Moe is going to Austin for a race and the race gets cancellled, but she still goes to see Colin friend of hers or whatever. And so she thinks maybe there's something more than a friendship. Now, according to Colin, like days before he gets the text from Moe about her trip to Austin, he and Kaitin his girlfriend quote go on a break. Caylin moved into a separate room. And we had had like a very clear breakup we are together. I needed personally to like close the door on the relationship. It's kind of what I felt like, kind of like no turning back makeake her angry at me And I effectively started dating Mariah for a week when she was in Austin to make Kaitlyn angry at me and I effectively started dating Mariah for the week she was in Austin. That is a fake breakup Yeah to get your girlfriend pissed off at you so you can technically say, Well we weren't together so you can use Mariah. This guy sucks. It sucks in this this behavior has dire consequences. So back to Collins, like we have his police interview and he tells the cops that he bought a nine millimeter pistol last fall, but he's actually never even opened the case time to shoot it or whatever, he just like has it locked in his case untouched. And they tell us that it was nine millimeter shell casings that were found at the scene. So now he's the last guy to see her and the like the shell casings match the gun that he just told him that that he has. And what else is weird is that Colin has Moe saved in his phone, not as Mo Under a different name because Caitln, the girlfriend is constantly looking through his phone. Right. We also learned that Caitlyn had all of his passwords because she managed all of his bank accounts. so she'd go in his phone and block contacts without him knowing. and you know, he can def you know she could find any information she wanted to. And I'm like, okay, this is not the dynamic wherere living in a separate room the same house constitutes a clean break. No. Stop lying D down playing and like playing all sides. It'sarly like a very dysfunctional relationship. And like the whole thing about her blocking people in his phone is that like we're getting Mariah's diary and like she's back and forth like trying to communicate with Colin, but he's not responding to her. then she texts him and her texts don't go through. I'm like Caitln blocked her. But also like, if Kaitln's in your phone, Kaitln's in your phone. There is no fake name that's gonna to make the following text okay. And the text is a fantastic time showing you around the bright spots of Austin in Greater Texas. You're a very rare talent with a sharp intellect and a fun and beautiful spirit. What fake name What kind of you don't talk like that when you have a girlfriend? Are you out of your mind? Also who says something like Greater Texas? I love showing around Austin and the Greater Texas area. This guy sucks. Crazy. So Mariah is saying like through her friends and journal entries like she never really knew where she stood with him. And I'm like, right? because he wanted it both ways. He wants the drama of Caitlin And the help that she gives his business, the awesomeness of Moe, and the intention from everybody. Yeah, ye. So in January of twenty twenty two, which is five months before Mariah Wilson's murder, Colin stops responding to her completely. And then she would because probably because she's been blocked by Caitlin. Yeah. So fake name be damned, you fucking idiot. Right Like what is that gonna do? So but she like Mariah would run in to him and his living' girlfriend, Kaitln and it would be awkward. I'm like, yeah, I bet And then then it's like he's giving like my thing is like, she's been texting me. He asking me responding, but he's not getting the text. So then they see each other and it's weird. This dynamic is weird. And I'm just like, Mariah, I don't want this for you. And like you're so much better than this guy. You do not need this. Right. So when the cops press him on like, 'use he's like, oh, we didn't even kiss. like and Mariah didn't even kiss. Like he's saying we were just friends. And I'm like, I don't believe that. And I didn't believe him at all in this interview. I'm like, this guy is lying through his teeth. Because the cops are basically like, okay, if you seemingly hate Your girlfriend, then why are you with her? And this is when he explains, o, like he needs her. Kon was trying to build the spart and trail of business Caitlin was definitely very knowledgeable in finance and was obviously like smart about money And she did a lot of the managerial stuff for the business which allowed Kan to focus on other elements of his cycling career and whatever else He needs her to run the business. And I'm like, okay, but then be adults about it. Like if you want this person so eneshed in your life, then you have to know that the breakup is going to be more like a divorce.ight Not sleeping in the next room. so you can go fuck around Beause eventually Colin and Moe realize there's like nothing there between them. and Mariah's happy about this. Yeah, she's like talking about other guys. She's like really looking forward to meeting other people. She doesn't care. And I'm like, okay, great, let's move on. So they weren't, according to all of Mariah's friends and journal, like they called out that there was no spark and they were not together. Right So may eleventh, twenty twenty two, morning of the murder, Mariah is in Austin for the gravel locco race. She's staying with cash Jush takes a video of Mariah that morning and texts it to her mom and says, yourour girl is here safe with me. I feel like this was the moment that Cash was like really dreading talking about because she Cash has a lot of survivor's guilt Yes and feeling like she can't like she feels so badly that like she couldn't have kept Mariah safe during this time. Yeah. because and she says, she says be safe, fed fast. Yeah. Mariah' planning for the day. She was going to go swimming and go to dinner with Colin. And we see it. they have burgers, they're talking, like we see it on the cameras of the restaurant. And we hear Colin say that Caitlin called him during dinner and he didn't take the call. I mean then he says, he dropped Mariah off at home and that was the last he saw her So enter Sergeant Katie Connor, awesome PD. She says this is all hands on deck. She looks exactly like Holly Marie Combs. I couldn't stop thinking about it. Do I know who that is? I don't know other one from Charm. She's like N not Alyisssa Milano and not Ch Dy. would you'd either doing the celebrity look Like C contest these days. Yeah. If they did a Holly Marie Combs L alike C contest she would absolutely. She was at like a basketball game or like it would be like, o, the lookalike person. The Hll crowd. I wanton Holly Marie Combs birthy Well Well, Sergeant Katie's very busy. And we need her doing the work that she's doing. Well, here's what she's doing. So she's watching Collin's interview as it's happening and she's taking notes and verifying what he's saying kind of in real time. Yeah. And so she jumps into action because it turns out that we have footage of the car from the night of the murder at eight hundred thirty seven, and it's from a motion activated camera in the alleyway directly next to Cashia's apartment. Right know Cash said that he dropped Mariah off on his motorcycle, and we see video of that. So whose car is this? It's a black jeep, It has chrome windows, a luggage rack on the roof, a bike rack that was mounted on the back. One of the other detectives realized, hey, that's a vehicle that looks just like a vehicle that was in their driveway when detectives had gone out there to speak with Colin And it matches the description of the car that was in Collin's driveway when police first spoke to him and they didn't know Mariah's name. Right. So Sergeant Katie gives the car with the h sign and is like, I need to tell you something about the car. Like ask him about the car. It's wild that they are able to communicate in real time. Like she's able to get him the information about the car while He's interviewing Colin and he tells Colin that Caitlyin's car was at the murder scene and Colin basically collapses Yeah. And that was when I was like, did he not do this? Right? Beause I'm like if he's acting, we never see, they never do this well. Yeah, I think he's a fucking like a derpy loser. I acting as such. You know what I mean? Like like knowing what we will know at the end, you're kind of like, oh, of course he's a fucking Yeah. So they get a search warrant and Colin tells them that there should be two pistols in the house, but he only knows where one of them is because he's a shitty gun owner too. He does not know where his girlfriend's pistol is about shit but I do know that if you have guns in the house, you should know where they are. Yes, I should be locked. Listen, donon't even get me started. but he doesn't know where his girlfriend's pistol is and her car is the scene the. interesting that he like didn't offer that there's more than one gun in the house when they asked him about the gun in the first place. Right. He knows Caitln is unhinged, which is why he can't break up with her. Right. And he treats her like shit also. I think that it's a terrible relationship. I don't think either of them are treating each other right, but he knows She's quote crazy or whatever because he can't break up with her. alsoso he's using her. Yeah. well, speaking of Caitlyin, this is where Sergeant Katie brings Caitlyin into the interrogation room. Caitlyin is as cold as ice. and there's this lady cop, detective Conor, and she she's like Kaitln's like you want tell me what this is all about? And Detective Ronner is like, Well, do you know why we're talking to Colin or like anything that's happened in the last twenty four hours? Yeah. And Kaitln says Collin walked in the house and said one of the women in the cycling community passed away. Doesn't say her name. Noice. And like this is the but then she's also immediately saying she doesn't want tona be there and she's asking for a lawyer. And this is where the cop is saying her. Yeah. And that's why I wanted to chat with you It's a guy. He's gonna say stuff. And so we want to make sure that we get both sides of the story and everything and clear it up So what were you doing yesterday? I would like to putet you back think. That's completely your choice, but understand if you do, then we only have one side of the story to go on We'd really like to get your side of the story or we're only going to get it from him. And it works on Caitlin for like a second. It's a bullshit tactic. I'm not defending Caitlin. I'm just commenting on the system. Like the conversation should be over once she says the word lawyer. see this all the time. They're like, well Like Men, am I right? He's in the next room? like I know. I always wonder about this. likeike she says she wants an attorney but then doesn't leave. Like is it incumbent upon her to leave? Yeah, I think it's another like power imbalance weirdness here of like can she get up? I think people are Just sort of like forget what their rights are when they're sitting in that entroation room.. She also sucks, but like she's repeatedly saying she wants to leave. And they're like, but and I'm like can't, you shouldn't be doing that. No, I agree. I agree Girl, Gusto is back. famam, Gusto is an online payroll and benefit software built for small businesses. It's all in one, remote friendly and incredibly easy to use, so you can pay, hire onboard and support your team from anywhere. Yeah, we're talking like automatic payroll tax filing. You know how scared we gas taxes. Very simple direct deposits, which makes everybody happy. Health benefits, commuter benefits, workers' comp four hundred one Ks like you name it, Gusto is making it simple and has options for nearly every single budget. Let me tell you, Steve heard them advertising on another podcast and we use them and he loves it so much that he called our ad people and said we need them to advertise with us so we can say how great it is. And he always talks about their customer service that like people are always there. they make it so simple because like you can't know everything, right st I mean, like we're dealing like taxes for people from out of state that work for us. likeike he's obsessed. So if you need help, it's really great that their customer service is on the top of it. So famam, try gusto today at gusto dot com slash tCO and get three months free when you run your first payroll. That's three months of free payroll at gusto dot com slash tCO. One more time, gusto dot com slash tCO G Girls, Zenny is back. I'm super excited to talk about this because I've used them and I love them. Fam Zenny is an online eyewar shop. We're talking prescription glasses, sunglasses, blue light lenses starting at under thirty bucks. I cannot tell you how affordable this all is. And it's so easy. You go to Zenny dot coma you pick a frame, you upload your prescription, they ship it to your door. You don't have to worry about appointments. You don't have to go to the store. They're not upselling you at the counter. No, and they've got this amazing try on technology. You pick the glasses that you want, you look into your camera You can move around and they move with you. The try on technology is really what sold me. And it's also really important. This is your new face. Yes, exactly. Pim. they are so affordable. I love this talking point. You stop asking, do I really need new glasses and you start asking, why don't I just get them? I was gonna get one pair. I got four. See, this is what we're talking about. Get the fun ones. Yes, get the Oh my God.. the fried ones Absolutely obsessed. Get the pair that only matches like your one favorite special outfit, who cares? That is greatice GP. it. For under thirty bucks, like I know. They've got over one hundred fifty thousand five star reviews, famam, and I'm one of them. So get on it. So famam, if your glasses are overdue for a refresh, now is the time. G to Zeny dot com slash podcast and use code podcast fifteen for fifteen percent off your first order. The styles do sell out famam, so don't sit on it That's ENI dot com slash podcast and the promo code is podcast fifteen. Y So we meet Virginia Brown. She iss Colin and Caitlin's friend and she's here to tell us a little bit about Caitlyn saying like she was always a really like sweet person. likeike this relationship was a fucking mess, but like she wasn't always like this. Yeah. we also do learn that at one point, Caitlyin called Mariah out of the blue from an unknown number. From an unknown number to be like Colin and I are still seeing each other, it would be best if you just stay out of it Everyone knew how bad this was.. Obviously one person is the worst of it here, but like this was just a mess for everybody. Yeah. And the cops ask Colin, like, could your girlfriend have done this? When we get there, I've got a lot of questions about this, But he's absolutely adamant that there's absolutely no way she couldn't have done this. And I'm like, I don't know how much you knew about what happened, but I think that there is certainly a world in which you can imagine that she would have done something like this. Colin is not being one hundred percent honest about these relationships. Yes. he's just not But Virginia, the friendriend says like, you know, looking back as what happens with hindsight, like she's realizing certain things that Caitlyn said and did in the middle of this very toxic, horrible relationship that like she was Caitln was asked like what would you do? 'use I feel like that's all Caitlyn talked about. He's cheating, whoo is you like the thing is she's not paranoid if he was actually doing it was lying to her. He was having inappropriate relationships, you know? Yeah I think the conversations were a lot about that with her girlfriends. And so when she's asked, I was there when we were all sitting outside of the meteor I'm the one who asked her. was like, what would you do if you ever saw a calling with another person You you and she blankly and coldly said I'd chill them. and we thought she was joking Virginia's like, we she was kidding. Because everybody says crazy stuff. you know. And this guy was making her crazy, like he was he was a dick. Yeah. And she was being proven right all the time. Yeah. I mean, we also learn that like in the days after the interrogations, Caitlin and Colin O like they think their house is bugged. so they won't talk there and they literally have a conversation about like getting their stories straight. Yeah. And meanwhile, we cut to Colin on the floor in the fetal position in the corner of the interrogation room, just repeating, no, no, no. I over and over again. And so like Colin's like, we need to account for every second of our day so that the cops can actually find the real killer allegedly. And I'm like, that's weird do that. Why are you asking to do that? Totally agree. That is a weird If you didn't know anything about what happened, why are you doing that? And like you don you shouldn't have to get your story straight because the truth is the truth. Right. So you just say where you were. Right. So now we learn that the detective gets two hours of video from a neighbor's ring camera a neighbor of cashes And it's continuous video. it's not just images. Yeah. And so he's like putting it on and like doing his other work. and as he like hears a car pulling up, he like looks up to see and he sees the car. at one point, like he looks up and there is the car that they saw on the other ring footage at the house at the time of the murder. And I just want to give a shout out to Netflix here because on this video, there's audio and video. We don't hear it. It says audio redacted. thank you, but the cops hear it. And what they hear at nine hundred fifteen is a woman screaming and three gunshots Thank you Netflix for not making us hear it because we hear for now that that has been introduced to us, everyone says it's the most horrifying thing they've ever heard in their lives. So thank you for not. Yeah. the thing about the gunshots too, is that it was two shots and then a six second pause and then a third shot. Yeah. And we'll learn about that later and it is fucking awful. So we know that Colin was home We' able to trace his path back home He receives a phone call while he' at home His phone was showown to be at his residence at the time that the gunshots could be heard. Now it becomes very difficult for you to say, well, Colin was driving the jeep. So that only leaves her with access to it. We have video of him on his motorcycle and his phone pinged at his house at the time of the murder, which was nine hundred fifteen. And the ballistics report comes back and it confirms that the gun that was confiscated from Collin and Caitlyn's house was the gun used at the murder. So the only other person who had access to that gun was Caitllyn. And we know where Colin was Right So let's do the math on that. So it's may seventeenth, six days after the murder, and the police have an arrest warrant for Caitlyn Armstrong, but guess what? ran. She's in the wind G. So there are a national manhunt is on. We were talking before we started. This is like how I remember this. I remember this all when it happened. The marshals are here, the FBI, they're asking for the public's help. It's all over the news. So here's what she did. She sells the black Jeep at Carmax. We have her on the video Clarsday She sitting playing with her brand new phone with her legs crossed. Yes. She flew from Austin to Houston and then from Houston to upstate New York, where she goes to see her sister. Then she takes her sister's passport and flees the country to Costa Rica. Can we get eyes on the sister? I thought that too. I'm like, Well, first of all, because she's dy, she has brand new hair. Yes. She's trying to make herself look like her sister. She's wearing a mask but she's in the airport so that makesense. That's what I do. There's no record of Caitlyn being on any flight and I'm like, what is she trying to is she going to kill the sister too? because there can't be two of them. Right. Is she gonna try to be become her sister? We're never told if the sister was complicit or if she just like stole the sister's What she Whver. So while Caitn's in the wind and they're trying to find her, they're trying to strengthen the case against her at the same time. they find out that her H phone was in airplane mode at the time of the murder, so they can't track her using the cell phone pings. But they find out that her car has what they call an infotainment system.'s just the GPA. It's the big screen that every car has now where you can like have your airplay and your map and the radio I love that detective Richard tracks down the car ' remember, she sold the car. so he tracks the car down I checked with our digital forensics unit and asked them what type of information would this infotainment system collect One of the things that they said that it collected was track logs your GPS st He watches a YouTube video on how to pull out the infotainment system. I'm like, there's not somebody at the cop station who knows how to do that. I'm sure just Yeah, whatever. like, ye, I just was like you watch the YouTube like we are really getting the boots on the ground. We're getting every last detail here. This is the same guy who thought Mara's name was Monica and also had never heard the name Monica before.. So also, Colllin just gave Caitlyin forty thousand dollars to quote, invest in their company, which means that she's on the run with forty grand real onvenient, right? I very, very. like I think he's lying about a lot of things. But like no cop thinks he's lying at least according to the document. No one's like Colin knew everything that happened. Like no one ever says that. I'm like, they lived in the house. like he's taking her out of the house because he thinks it's bugs, they can't account for their time. They're new phone phones He gives her forty grand in cash, apparently 'Cause like that's the only way they're gonna she's gonna be able to use that money and not be happy be track. I don't know, man. It's very convenient is all I'm saying. So here's how they get the son of a bitch. Kaln fancied herself a yoga instructor. This is unreal. So the US Marshals post a fake ad looking for a yoga instructor in Costa Rica, which is where she is, and it freaking works. She shows up and she's like, hi, feel like yoga Kaitlyin and they ask her. they're like, arere you Kaitln Armstrong? She's like, Yeahah, it's me. Why would you go through all of that trouble and then just give them your name? Boom handcuffs. After forty three days, I'm like forty three days. I know. So this is when they learn it after she was arrested we find out that she actually went through plastic surgery trying to make herself look more like her sister I think she just thought she was smarter than everybody else and that she could get away with it. In those forty three days, she's had plastic surgery to look more like her sister. and that's when I'm like, canan we talk to the sister because I think she might also be killing her sister? Yeah, there can't be two. I'm not giving Caitlin any props here, but I don't know that we've ever seen anything like this. Like to be so all in to flee the country, steal your sister's passport, get the plastic surgery, go to Costa Kayln was really, really going for it here. Real lucky that she just happened to fall into forty thousand dollars. thousand dollars. When you need plastic surgery and a pinch in Costa Rica, you know what I mean? You know what I mean? I don't understand why you're going to all of this trouble and then you're answering and add and using your real name. Are overcoming your sister? Over Cllin Strickland. Right. Woof So Rick, the defense attorney, this is all a big misunderstanding. The cops are making a lot of assumptions. I look forward to sorting this shit out in a court of law essentially. But wait we didn't even talk about Well, this is going to happen now. Okay because this is unreal. eighteen days before the trial, Kalin escapes and we see it. So what happens She supposedly she lies to the the whatever. she has to see an outside doctor. So they escort her to the appointment. But the minute the appointment is over, she books it, but she doesn't have a plan she's running along the gate of this office park and black and white striped pants like the hamurg ha burgler around the loose And they finally this officer is having a lot of trouble falling all over herself. I mean, if we so embarrassing. We need a lot. We this is what one of the many reasons we have to burn the whole system down and start again. Like Caln is literally running in circles. Like there's a fence that she can't get over. She can't hop the fence. This hill is like a four foot hill this officer She trying to get up the hill, but she keeps falling down. Stripping all over themselves. and then apparently, Caitlin makes a break for it. Mortifying for everybody. She gets a mile away. I mean, she gets a mile, she almost got away again. Yeah, and then she can't hop the fence and that's how they get her. We're back with Mariah's mom for a minute and this this was what got me. This is like the first time I watched it that I like I couldn't take it The more that I can be thankful for the fact that I know that we had Mi here for twenty five years. The more I can give thanks for that and not focus on the loss. That is a highly therapized person's way of getting through this. Well, because she she talks about too like Getting through the mud to the other end, not ignoring it, like being in the dirty, sad ugly parts. Because, you know, we're going go through the trial and all that in a minute and you can be as mad as you want at the person who did it. but at the end of the day, you have to wake up and live with yourself and you have to like have your family and have your life. And I was just thinking about like trying to be grateful for the twenty five years that they had her Rather than focusing on the loss of her, that is the work of a lifetime. Yeah. Like I was thinking about Ethan Chapin's parents talking about how like they had, you know, one week of we did it. Yeah. I know like high fving in the car. Yeah. I was like, I'm never leaving my house again. I'm just staying with my daughter. And look like that doesn't work for everyone. I'm so glad it works for them, but some people like we've seen where it's like, no, the anger gets out of the bed in the morning and I saw the fucking murder. Yeah. You know, like it depends on Grief is a crazy, crazy thing Yeah Girl, Rula is back. So this is online therapy. And famam, a lot of online therapy does not accept insurance at all, which means even during a month focused on mental health, which is the month of May, you're stuck paying out of pocket or signing up for an expensive monthly subscription. And because May is Mental Health awwareness mononth and it's super important to us. and the goal isn't just to like talk about mental health, it's to actually you know get the supp need and take some action. Yeah, Rula partners with over one hundred twenty insurance plans making the average c pay teen buckars per session. This is real therapy from licensed professionals at a price that actually makes sense. Yeah, like they make sure their providers are carefully screened and veted. They monitor the quality of the care. They're helping you monitor your progress in therapy. Yes, they're making it so easy and affordable, famam. So famam, as GP said, this is mental health Aareness Month, don't just think about your mental health, actually take the step to take care of it Visit rulet dot com slash tCO to get started. That's RuLA dot com slash tCO. You deserve mental health care that works with you, not against your budget. Yes O october thirieth, twenty three, the first day of the trial, and Caitlin pleads not guilty. And the thing is that we have to remember, there's no direct evidence and no eyewitnesses. And like we know these are the things that like juries like. So everybody's sort of like, we think we got or, we think we have a good case, but who knows here? I think there's plenty. I understand being cautious optimistic. I get it Yeah, the data doesn't lie. You know, her attorney says that information will come out that Caitn was nowhere near the crime scene at the time of the murder. That never happens. No that That's a promise that is not delivered on. No. You fell for it, attorney. right, you're just lying. Yeah. So Cash testifies, she's the second person on the stand and she just explains that like I just became hyper focused I went into this like zone of this is the most important thing I could possibly do in my life I want to see justice served And I want to do my absolute best for my friend she just wanted to do the absolute best she could for her friend. And she says when she stepped down from the stand, she looked directly into Caitlyn's eyes, and she's like there was nothing there. just a void. Nothing. And so the killer dragged Mari's bike into the weeds. and the motivation, they're just sort of saying like either as a way to just be rude and just be a dick or to like make it look like a robbery either way Yeah, and then they wheel the bike in as evidence. And even before the family said it, I was like like the bike is the living embodiment of Mariah. The bike was everything to her. It was joy. it was like it was who she was and to see this Deense attorney And I think he's doing it deliberately. like he's man handling it. I was thinking he's like, he's trying to break the spell of the bike. You know what I mean? He's trying to like to like to the jury be like, it's just a bike, it It's not a per. But like the family, the dad like being the family sitting in the gallery at your daughter's murder trial. Yeah. you must feel so powerless. You must feel And to see this man deliberately trying to manhandle this bike that is like the most important like remaining piece of your kid I was enraged. Because even let's just say He's her he's the defense attorney. So even if his client didn't do it, she did, Mariah was still brutally murdered. Yeah. So don't, you know, like someone did that Yeah guy. So to try to dehumanize her in some way is just so shitty and it makes you a bad lawyer. Yeah because you're still not respecting or owning the fact that like something happened, something horrible happened here. My client didn't do it. However, we have to get the person who did. whatever to like throw that bike around is just such an asshole.. He was clearly doing it on purpose. look argum he' try to make in this moment because he's just a bunch of words salad but guess what? When they recovered the bicycle, they had processed it for DNA and fingerprints. I asked them to Process a couple other spots or items on the bike just to be sure We compared it with the DNA that we collected from Caitlin That comparison showed that Caitln's DNA was actually on the bicycle Kaylin's DNA is all over the bike. Exactly. So shut up And so but now we're at home with Most familyamily talking shit about Caitln. and obviously I'd be doing the same. Yeah. But they just say like she looks like a stone. and they're like, is there any softness in her anywhere or is she all stoned? Is she even flesh and blood or is she just like stopped? I just wondered what she was like in life before this. Like what was she like to hang out with? And I think it's interesting because we do have her friend here to say like she wasn't always like this. Yeah Like this really shitty toxic relationship did a number on her. not no one's defending her or justifying her, but like There are things here that happened to her that changed her. Yeah that I mean, according to her friend, you know, like to say she wasn't always like this. Yeah. ye. So day three, Colin Strickland takes the stand. He walks in mask and sunglasses like trying to obscure his face. He brought a dog. His emotional support Which is like sometimes I feel like the dog should have a say in this. I know. You know what Iike dog's happening bad people all the time. and it's this tiny adorable little puppy that like has to be his emotional support dog because he has He's has an attitude. a major attitude, not the dog gu per living the Angel. But like everyone is pissed at Colin because he played a part in this. And he didn't pull the trigger, but like he manipulated both of these women and he was an asshole. And so like for him to be slumped over and looking away and falling asleep, like Ricky, the prosecutor says, I wanted to say to him, comeome on, dude, donon't you want to help Mariah? Yeah, like you're the one who has all the information here. Why are you being difficult? And like this is when we get sort of this round roobin of like the lawyers, experts and friends saying Coolllin ended up in the middle of some very unfortunate events. I don't think that he ever anticipated or intended for things happen the way that they did But I also don't think that we can look at what happened without acknowledging his involvement Kaallin is the killer, but we have to acknowledge Coolin's involvement in what happened here. Yeah because he is there was involvement. Yeah. I just think that like to like for it to escalate to murder, like there's something wrong with her. Sure. Like people do bad things, you know what I mean? And like I'm not defending his behavior. Like nobody should treat their partner the way that he was treating these two people, but like it's a far leap for me. like I can absolutely agree this is a bad guy and I would not want anybody that I love dating this guy But like to say that he like I mean, we don't know what happened behind closed doors. There's a part of me that feels like he was even involved. So like in that regard, then I can say like, sure, like there's a lot of evidence here that he was helping her. But if he didn't and he really didn't know anything, I don't know. like the connecting it to the murder, that's too far for me. I just think that there's like some involvement here I agree that people can be pushed to do bad things. I absolutely agree. But like it's just a I mean, the murder is so like, I also really find it hard to believe that she wasn't always like this. I find it like we only have one of her friends here telling us that she wasn't always like this. I bet we could find fifteen people that were like, no, she was always really off. Yeah, maybe I mean, what's so shitty about it because again, I'm not defending her by any stretch, but like When was she wrong, Colin? She was right about what she was accusing you of. You know, like you have women in your phone as and if you think Mariah is the only person he was fucking around with. But when like look, they're both adults, Caitlyin and Colin. one hundred percent. And so like when toxic people are in a toxic relationship and they don't get out of it, I don't know what to tell you These were two consenting adults in a toxic relationship who stayed in it. So it's sort of like I've had friends in my life that have been toxic people in a toxic relationship that I like and I feel like the friends scatter fast because it's like like impossible's it's impossible. And like I agree with you that Colin is like not a good guy. I would not want him dating my sister. But like in the end, like when we will get to him in a few minutes, I think he is very sorry and I think that like like these are mistakes that he takes accountability for, you know Well, Pamela is here I love Pamela. I'm not defend him. I don't want to date. like, don't date this guy The bad news, but like I just it's too far of a leapf for me to say that like two toxic people in a relationship and then she goes and kills somebody, like I don't know. that's I don't know how we can like say it like it's I know you're not saying it's his fault, but it she's responsible for her own actions. Of course, I just don't he had a role to play in the deterioration of what happened I think. I think like I'm not saying a ninety nine percent role, but like He was part of this a little bit So in my opinion, anyway. Yeah. So Pamela's here, she's a crimal intelligent. I love her tal. She's so smart. She's awesome. She's the last witness for the prosecution. She's gonna wrap this all up in a very digestible bow for the jury. And can I just give props to the Netflix like documentary team? Because like the infographics they use here is it's like beautiful to look at. It's great So come Be Mariah in his phone as Christine Wall is just what she like drops in before we get into the nitty griritty of this. I wonder like where that name comes from? I know. You know what I mean? He wass probably sitting there and he was like, Ohh, Christine's a hot name. and he's staring at a wall fucking darp. and he's like, I'll just do that. John Glass. Yeah, Georgeass. George Glass. I a George Glass at our school So the day of the murder, it's five forty five. Colin asks Mariah if he should come over to Cashia's place to hang out, Mosa sureore. So Pam, the expert says, Caitlin did have access to a lot of his information and there was an iPad at home, and she more than likely would be able to see all of this texting between Colin and Mariah Caitln definitely knew about the texts because again, like fse like fake name be damn, but she had access to his iPad and the texts you guys too the iPad. She literally sitting on the couch scrolling the texts in real time. Like not only is Cin a dick, he's also bad at this. Yes. O he loves the drama. either way he's making stupid decisions. Yeah. So here's what Pam, the expert lays out at seven hundred fifteen Caitln, the girlfriend is in her car driving downtown. And so she knows exactly where Colin and Moe are going to be. And she's like looking like we see them her like drive very quick. like she can see them. Yeah. and they say like they she knows that they'll either be at Cash's house or at this burger joint. And so the GPS we're told kind of looks like Caitln isn't sure what she wants to do. She's kind of in between places driving around and just not unclear right now. But then she parks Yeah And she's kind of there for a few minutes. And so Pam our expert is like, that must have been when she's kind of deciding her next move. Like the gun in the car with her. becausecause then she turns her phone off. Right. And that doesn't matter either because the GPS on the car packed everything. a fun machine or whatever it is called Infainment. And so GPS shows that she went directly to Cashia's house, and she's like circling in the area, like waiting, like stalking them, like lifting them. Right because they say that like Caitllyn sees Colin drop Mariah off She's sitting there waiting for Colin to leave. And she goes and we know what happens next. L we know from the ring camera like when exactly the murder happened. Yeah. And this is deliberate. Like the data doesn't lie here. This is very clear and deliberate To guys shots Fine a One to Saturday. We have that four or five seconds silence Kayen Armstrone Stood over, M Wilson. Put a bird chap R Wils' home. And then there's the six second pause for Caitlin to stand over her body and then shoot her directly in the heart. And also what hat like Colin leaves Cashia's house, the second he's away from Mariah, he texts Caitlin, quote, all done with my errand, want to get something to eat. Colin, you like, didn't you say earlier you wanted to use Moe to get Caitlin mad at you? And so you get rid of Caitlyn and like now you're doing this. But then if he's like assuming that she's been reading the text anyway, then like he assumes that she knows, like it's all it's all horrible. God. So Kaitn doesn't answer And by nine fifteen She has murdered Mariah Wilson. Yeah. It's just awful. So the verdict comes in, she's found guilty of murder, ninety years and a ten thousand dollars fine. I know. Meanwhile, the bailiff is sneezing. D like the while they're reading the verdict, the bailiff is like sneezing through like it was Not the best moment for a sneeze. Into the elbow pit. Stifle it as much as possible. Tuly. I was like you can do. I know, I know. L what an inopportune moment for a sneeze. It's possible to sneeze quietly I know many dads. This is my newuggle with that. Yes. Many dads, older men. One of the dads in my house struggles with that. you're not looking at. a loud sneezer. He doesn't do it on purpose. Well, question all the loud sneezers men out there. What is it? Why are you choosing to do it that way and not any other way? There's no question. question that sneezing is a full body experience. Like it is a bizarre phenomenon that the human body experiences. Like what even is anez? It's so weird. Right. I'm telling you from experience, you can sneeze quietly. I agree with you. It's absolutely possible. I know it to be true. Like it's a choice I make. Yeah. And I'm just curious why people don't ake that choice. I don't know. You know? I don't know. Do you jump out of your skin when he does it? Is it that is it that l? Yes, it can be. Yes. and it's like it's that thing where like it's now every time it happens, I have to leave the room because I'm annoyed. So what do you do? Like have you mentioned it? Oh, yees. Oh yeah, the first time No. And now it's like I leave the room. he knows and it's like, and then we just don't talk for five minutes and then we go back to normal. but like's I don't I'm with you on this. And look, sometimes snezes come out nowhere and you're like, oh my God. I know I get that. But like when it's a reat No, I know. When you When you have like a ritual of what happens, like, he sneezes, I'm annoyed. I leave the room. Like we gott to haveave you done the like it's like it's like a like it hits him like a wave. See, that feels performative. When people do that, I've seen it It's not the quietest sneezer. know I know I know what I'm talking about. okay? Yeah I just saying I don't really get Like Because I know it's possible. Yes Again, I'm not talking about violent seize. we're, oh my god, I don't know what happened.. If've heard a seize that results in a nosebleleed? I've had that. No. Oh yeah. That's phrazy. I don't understand why we have to sneze Anw It it was one sneeze and you just like sneze sh. We' at a right climate where it's like, you just sneeze and blood went everywhere? No like I sneeze and then like three seconds later, there's blood 'use like it's something it burst a blood vessel. That's not.'s a sneeze. I know. I picture you sneeze it and blood goes everywhere. It's just like It's like and a dexus comeing. No my sneezes, they're not dainty, but they're normal You know what I mean? Yeah I just don't understand. Anyway, is crazy. Kaln's mom gets on the stand and she gives an impact statement and she's so calm. She knows exactly what she wants to say. And she's like She was an amazing listener She would have cared about your feelings She was a caring and empathetic person If you allowed yourself to actually know her, Youve never E with wanted to hurt her When you shot Mariah in the heart, you shot H in my heart. When you shot her in the heart, you shot me in the heart. Yeah. And it was so it was so senseless and so shocking. and then it's the big question of like, do you ever really know anyone? Right? Like can you know? I mean anybody her own brother is like, am I capable of this? Are you capable of this? Is anybody? And the answer is no, by the way. No. The answer is absolutely fucking not. Yeah. I mean, we learn that and meet the parents. Can you ever really trust another human being? Greg? And he says yes, And Rot Deaniro goes, no, the answer is you cannot. Wow Dar, that and the pigeons all in one episode. It's real bad. Dark in here today. In the final moments of the doc, we're at home with Colin and his cute dog, highi, sweetheart. Yes. All I'm saying thing that I'm saying about Colin in this moment is that I don't think that Colin ever could have imagined that his actions could have led to what happened. And in my opinion, they didn't. In my opinion, he treated two women very poorly and he's a shitty guy. And I think that he's just here to say like he's like, I live in my shop, I don't do anything now, I stay in my shop, I feel shame about everything that I did and everything that led to this. I wish I had never met any one of these people I Belve him. You don't have to. Yeah. But like, you know, I think that he's a broken person for the rest of time now. Sure. you know, my just opinion is that it felt in that in this moment that I just want to say like I feel like he's not one hundred percent getting it. Like, it was a situation that he perpetuated that contributed to a tragedy. That is a statement I totally agree with. That's just what I feel Yeah. And I feel like he's not really He's not there yet. He's notm. I mean, he says like I feel shame about everything I did, you know, I'm not defending him and we can move on from this. like we don't have to go over this all again, but like I get it. like I get it. He's a bad guy and he was in a relationship and this and this thing happened. Yeah. Like Mariah wouldn't be dead if Colin hadn't been born. That's a statement that is true. Woof. Well Cash decided to stay in the house where Mariah was murdered. Yeah. And she explains why. so she goes into she's showing us this awesome thing that she found in a thrift store. there was like a wall of three hundred frames and like at random, she picks one. And it has a little bike going out of the frame, which feels really appropriate for what was happening at the moment It's got a bloom over here so there's some hope going on. and then it says with you all the way. and I just kind of was totally overcome when I saw this And she picked this out at random three hundred. So how could she not buy it? We also get a zoom on a candle called What the actual Fuck? Yeah. Sells like an existential crisis. loveo that. Yeah. But Cash says, you know, everyone assumed that she wouldn't move back in the house. And she was very reluctant to do that. But she explains that she felt this strong connection because there were so many good memories there and she says that Because Mariah had such a beautiful last day in the house that that was sacred to Cash. Yeah wanted to protect that space. and she wants to like feel and harness Mariah's joy and like use that. And she says that she thinks she that Mariah would be proud that she didn't just like give up and run away from the house, but she's like trying to protect their space together. Yeah, whichich is not a decision everyone Yeah would make. You know, That's a very, very specific thing. but I think it just speaks to like their friendship. And then it ends We should definitely play some of this, but it ends with a voiceover actor reading from Mariah's journal. I know like for the love of the thing, you know? she calls like biking the emptying. This is one of the feelings I believe every bike racer lives for emptying Beautiful paradox emptying yourself can be such a fulfilling experience This is always one of my favorite parts about racing And I'm already looking forward to more of these moments She calls it a beautiful paradox. And like this again was when I was like, the music is killing me. It's like the feeling she lives for. Y. She's so good at it. And like you see someone who's just like so good at something they love to do. Yeah, it's like, oh my Godd. And it's so also like solitary, you know. Yeah, its very it could be very meditative. Yeah, sure. Yeah. Yeah. So we learned at twenty twenty three, the Wilson family established the Mariah Wilson Foundation to honor Mariah's life in leegacy Continuing the impact she hoped to have in her communities promotes healthy living, community building by supporting organizations dedicated to expanding access to recreation, sports, educational programs. And then we end with a ride for Mo. Her brother is a biking coach now. And he does like a ride for Mo. and it's like, I don't know,' this documentary was so beautiful. veryery well done. And it was like the music was so amazing. and really the music really got me at And that's it, you should go watch it. You should go watch it Girl, we did the Tuth and traragedy of Mariah Wilson on Netflix. So good. what are we doing after this? Okay, and now for something's completely different, untold chessmates. We're going to the scandal of the chess world. Y. Someone's super inuffer a couple you'll probably have a crush on one of them. Okay. And we're just like it's a scandal in the chess world Nobody dies. I can play a little chess now. M me too. So all right, cool, we'll see what happens. I know, like the Queen's Gambit opening, which is like the most famous. No I don't even know that. L the pawns and then you control the center. Anyway, it doesn't matter. I' nowhere near this level of chess people who seem very serious and don't w to have any fun. Oh God. All right, well we will. we will. So stay tun for the trailer for that fam and we love you. love. Stay safe out there. Bye My entire life and career has been destroyed and I'll have to livever the fact that's every conversation I have about Chess We'll eventually discuss anil beads.