Control Alt Delete Game

Hi, I'm Nicole Phelps, the global fashion news and features director and co host of Vogue's podcast The Run Through. Each week on the show, our listeners get an all access pass to the world of Vogue with the latest fashion news and the most exciting vo ices in the industry. On Tuesdays, join me to hear interviews with influential leaders in the industry like Calvin Klein, Daniel Rosebury, and Jonathan Anderson. On Thursdays, join head of editorial content at Vogue, Chloe Mal and head of editorial content at British Vogue Chominati, as they explore style and culture through the lens of fashion with guests like Martha Stewart, Kamala Harris, and Tracy Ellis Ross. The run through with Vogue, new episodes every Tuesday and Thursday, wherever you get your podcasts. This show is supported by OutShift, Cisco's Incubation Engine . Today's AI agents operate in silos, limiting their true potential. We've been focused on building bigger, smarter models, but scaling up is just one approach. To reach super intelligence together , we need to do more . We need to scale out . And we actually have a blueprint from seventy thousand years ago. Humans didn't just get smarter individually, the cognitive revolution transformed society because we began sharing knowledge, goals, and innovation. Agents are now at that same inflection point. They can connect, but they can't think together. That's why Outshift by Cisco is building the internet of cognition transforming AI from isolated systems into orchestrated super intelligence. By creating an open, interoperable infrastructure, Outshift By Cisco is enabling agents and humans to share intent, context and reason ing. The cognitive evolution for agents is here. Explore the internet of cognition at outshift. com That's outshift dot com Every company says AI will make employees more productive . But most employees are still stuck waiting on IT , waiting for app access, waiting for password resets, waiting for someone to fix a laptop issue so they can get back to work. That operational drag adds up f ast and IT teams are overwhelmed trying to keep up. Serval was built to automate that work. You describe what you want, automated in plain English, and servile builds it for you. No complicated workflow build ers, no consultants, just faster support and fewer tickets slowing everyone down. Serval Positions IT is the AI powered operational backbone of the company, not just a support function. The company guarantees customers can automate fifty percent of IT tickets and backs it up with a free four week pilot . Learn more or start a free four week pilot at serval dot com slash uncanny. That's s r val uncanny serval dot com slash uncanny From Wired, this is the Big Interview, where we get to know the people beyond the headlines, in conversations that explore the intersection of technology, power, and culture. I'm Katie Drummond, Wired's global editorial director. Info Wars forever. You are the info warrior. Follow us. Info Wars is a movement and you're on it now. You're on our ship . Come on . Geez . That is not, believe it or not, far right conspiracy theorist Alex Jones for a minute there I thought it really was him. It's comedian Tim Heidecker, who's been named the new creative director of Infil Wars, doing his best parody of its former owner. Jones is notorious for using the InfWars platform to peddle his false theory that the deadly twenty twelve Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting was a hoax. Sandy Hook families sued him for defamation and Jones was ordered to pay them more than a billion dollars. He had to file for bankruptcy, and that's where the onion and Tim come in. The Satirical News publication first tried to buy infoars at a bankruptcy auction back in twenty twenty four with the the support of Sandy Hook families. That deal didn't quite work out, but the Union has a new plan and isn't giving up. It's still trying to take over the site and Heideker and his colleagues are moving forward, confident they'll prevail. Tim is here now to tell us more. Welcome, Tim. Thanks for not calling me Eric. Oh my god, I can't even imagine. Has that happened before? Yeah, and even with close friends. I have to start by asking what goes into that uncanny par ody of Alex Jones. How did you try to capture his ID, if you will? I guess I just can do it. I don't know, I don't think about it. I've been doing it for like ten years or more he was at the Republican convention in Cleveland. A guy do a lot of work with Vic Berger. Oh , I love Vic Berger. Yeah. Oh, that's awesome. We went to the convention and at the time there was this, what was it called Snapchat which, I guess it still exists. I never really got I missed that I missed that boat. I don't understand it. But for a minute there, it was it would do really good face swapping or maybe it probably still does, but you can do that real time face swapping. So I was doing it with Alex Jones and he was there. And so I just started doing it and I could do it. I don't know why I don't know how I could do it, but I guess the key into it is to not stop talking and to keep going and filibuster as much as he can with not really any information . In the ten years that you have been parodying him from time to time and I think now more frequently , have you learned anything about the guy? Like do you have a better understanding of his whole deal ? No, I guess, do I? No, I think he's a great entertainer, a great talent . There's a great broadcasting talent there. Yeah , that's been corrupt ed or abused or, you know, he's taken into a very dark place where he's, you know, essentially it's a pills delivery system. That's the business. That's right. Right. They sell supplements.. Yes And I think that is that's the bread and butter. That's what they're there to do and to keep people afraid . If there's anything might prevent you from becoming part of the many c asualties of the globalists is to be stocked up with iodine and various silver components and things. So it's a big circus, you know , a big P Betarenumy kind of a bluster y thing. So I want to ask you about sort of your career a little bit. You've been pioneering, I would say, like a certain brand of satire for a very long time. Started with the Tim and Eric Awesome show . It's been described as absurdist, surreal , maybe cringe, but I wouldn't say and I was very young. I won't tell you how young when the show debuted , but knowing what I know about it, I wouldn't describe it as overtly political. No, that though has changed for you. Yeah. How would you describe your sort of personal brand of comedy as having evolved in the last what year is it twenty six , twenty, twenty five years? I think I instinctively said no when you said it wasn't political. I think in a sense it was it had a point of view that had a set of values attached to it. I think that looked at consumer culture mostly , capitalism and found some sort of nihilistic cynical it was very cynical look at our modern world, which I think is a political point of view . We didn't get into current events and didn't mess with the news necessarily. But so I've always been that way. Most of the people I work with come from having a very progressive politics about them. A bunch of artists and weirdos and musicians and comedians at the time. I mean, obviously comedy's going in a very strange direction recently, but I guess I would say the first five or six years of Tim and Eric was very much about Tim and Eric, not Tim Heidecker or Eric Warheim . It was about this , like you say, a brand , a comedy duo that really didn't involve our own personal lives in any way . Very much in character . That got a little tiring for me or it got a little restrictive. So I think honestly, back to the good old days of Twitter, I think Twitter , if the Young s can comprehend this, used to be kind of a fun place. Oh, it was the most great. Well, maybe not the most, but it was a fun place. It was it was a really funny and fun place . And I also found it was a way that I could talk about what was going on in the world very quickly. I can react to things . And then there was just stuff happening in politics that felt very tim erici, or it felt very much like my kind of humor. There was a very Herman Kain ran for president . He was the CEO of Godfather Pizza. And he was a sorry, what year was this? This was twenty twelve, I think I think it was when Mitt Romney was running against Obama. Okay, okay. And he put out this campaign commercial that was kind of almost like a social media style , very, very low budget kind of thing. But it was his campaign manager and some of you guys can find it, but it's him at the end of the commercial and he's like standing like looking cool and he has a cigarette. No In twenty twelve. Yeah, not Herman Cain, but his campaign manager was doing the commercial. No one was his campaign manager just like this creepy dude and like he's cool guy. Like he was cool guy. Yeah. And that was the funniest thing I heard ever seen. It's really weird. And it was, you know, it was like we had kind of gone through Sarah Palin a little bit. Yeah, yeah. And even Donald Trump at the time had done his first foray and he was really crazy on Twitter saying insane things about Obama. And there was just a lot there that felt mockable and I'd eventually made a whole record about Hermann Cain, a whole record about as if from the perspective of like a lunatic who was a big supporter of his. And I put it out called Canthology. So that was probably like my first overt like political comedy thing . But fast forward to now, I would say I, among many would say that real life has eclipsed comedy in the Trump era, right? Like we are talking Donald Trump hosts a UFC fight outside the White House in an arena that he had built. Like you said he might not take down. It's right Who can say really? I mean, it's like it's that would be extremely funny if it weren't actually happening. Yeah. I think it can be both things by the way. But how do you think about that? How is sort of like the surreality of everyday life and Donald Trump and politics? How does that affect the work that you do? I think it can be depressing and anxiety inducing and then also very funny at the same time. I think I love dark comedy. I love the darkest of comedy. And I think the best comedy reveals pain that we all experience and fears that we all experience. So at the moment when people say, How can you satirize this stuff anymore? It's too crazy or to me it's not even like how can it's not like how could you possibly do that? It's like, how do you do it ? Because it's it is so bleak and it's so outrageous. Yeah. I think even if you did something where we would on office hours say, just talk about the UFC thing and talk about how crazy it is and don't try to top it. Just be open about how it makes us feel and how funny it is and how absurd it is that there's an audience of people out there who are feeling that same thing and want to know that they're not alone and they're not crazy. And so I think there's at the moment, I think it feels my best answer for that is that just acknowledging the insanity right now is enough to make people feel like there's a community of sanity maybe out there. . Yeah And so that's kind of what Satire does as I think about it is like it acknowledges a problem or it acknowledges something that's crazy and or wrong and it says I see this and somebody just out there trying to teach kids at school or something or some nurse out there or somebody is just like, Oh, thank God, I thought it was just me, you know? I thought I was the only one who thought a UFC fight outside the White House was a crazy thing to be doing. Yeah. Speaking of crazy, I mean when I think about insanity and craziness, like Alex Jones had like a truly crazy response to the news of you becoming creative direction . It was it was very funny. He posted on X a thirty minute video about you and your previous work in thirty minutes. Wow. He also posted, quote, the man hired by the onion to take over infoWars produced pro pedophile, slash child torture and murder shows for adult swim in conjunction with Will Ferrell, who took part in satanic rituals with spirit cooking high priestess Marina Abramovic. What did you think when you saw those responses? And January Christmas Christmas morning. Was it really Christmas morning? Metaphorically. Yeah. I'm Canadian, very vulnerable. Very vulval . Now you know. It was incredible. It was a joy. It was a total joy because like I've been in this swim swimming in these, you know, Q and on forchin right wing waters for a long time. And in that first , when it was, I think when it was quite new and scary in twenty sixteen, twenty fifteen , when it was, you had like, you know, the Peppe, the frog, and the, you know, memes of people being put in gas chambers and stuff. I had never experienced anything like that before. That was like, oh my gosh. Did you ever worry about your safety? Sure. Yeah . At that time , there was a few incidents that was like, ooh, maybe we should get something did you? Sure, yeah. I mean, nothing I'm not living behind a wall or anything, but yeah, but I remember that time take some precautions. Sort of journalistically that was I mean, it's still a scary time journalistically. And we have reporters who co ver the waters that you swim in. Yeah. And it can be very scary. I mean, I looked at the responses to Alex Jones' post on ex about you, and it was all people just being like, fuck you Alex Jones. Well, that's what was really the funniest thing was even I think a lot of his supporters were like, Alex, this is this was a comedy show . Like this is kind of embarrassing for you. But I had known like the Child Clowns thing, like there were like three or four of our sketches that you could kind of read into in a find the worst bad faith possible way of interpreting . But when we're back there writing this child clown sketch, it's like it's pure absurdity. Like there's no such thing as a child clown, you know? It doesn't exist except when I was eight and it was Halloween and we only had three costumes to choose from, you know? And you look at it now you go, yeah, I guess I could see you taking this the wrong way, but at the time. were We just making each other laugh, you know? So I'm not here to defend it. That's but it was very funny to see him get riled up about that stuff for sure. But maybe interesting too, to see how his influence has waned or yeah. Just that it I guess I was surprised to see that it didn't generate the kind of response that I thought maybe it would. Yeah, it was a little like I described it as kind of the last gasps of a dying whale . It had it had beach whale energy. Yeah, beach whale energy also visually a little beach whale. A little there's some beach whale happening. Yeah, there is Yeah. You're right. It was like , I almost wish we had gotten to this early, you know, sooner. I mean, for sure, we wish we would have gotten to this sooner, but he does feel like, I mean, that whole movement is so fractured. He's at war with Trump every other day. know each other. There's certain things he kind of gets close to being right about or he kind of like he's on our side right now apparently with the war in Iran and thinks that's a bad idea. So you know, he's shifting and changing probably for cynical reasons or whatever , trying to grab the flow, you know, wherever the culture is going on that side. He's got to sell some pills. Yeah, it's all about that. So I think at the heart of it, though, is still this feel ing of very uncomedic ideas like retribution and justice and consequences for your actions and sort at the heart of that at the heart of this are those ideas that I didn't necessarily expect to be in the middle of, but after learning more about the families and what they've been through and everything, it felt like a pretty noble activity to be a part of. Well, let me turn to that then in earnest. I mean, how did you get involved in all of this in the first place? Take us back to before you became creative director of the New InfoWar . How did that even become a glimmer of a possibility? I remember, as you said in your intro that they made an attempt to buy it. I saw that in the news . I kind of cold called them on it. The onion. The onion. Yeah. Yeah, but Ben Collins , who is the CEO and love Ben. Great guy. I didn't know him at the time, but he was very active on Blue Sky, which I had he is a big blue sky strong posting energy. And so I reached out, I think actually just through my agent to keep it kind of professional. I just said, Hey, if you need any, I'd love to talk to you about it. I wasn't sure what they were planning on doing. I think my idea at the was really just to get our hands on his master tapes, like on the hard drives and just ing. Just do something fun with those. That might have been my first time. And do those, does the archive come with the deal? Yes. Oh wow. . So that happened and then nothing happened. I didn't hear anything. I think their deal fell apart. And then I just didn't know anything. I just went back to my life and did my normal things. And then they reached out to me, emailed me and asked me if I could get on the phone and then it started with that. It started with a big question of what would you do if you had control of inf ars, like what do you think we should do? And from there, we kind of just kept talking for a long time. And what did you tell them? And how has that evolved? The two things I said were you , obviously satirical institut ion and you should make fun of Alex Jones for, you know, the joke of you of buying in fours should last a period of time. It should be mean and cutting and hopefully land some blows and make him look like a fool . But that can't go on for very long. That's gonna get pretty old because what else is there to say? He's a buffoon and he sells pills . Dying whale, et cetera. And that joke you're just gonna do a variation on that joke for three months. And then it'll be like, I'm not watching that anymore. So I also said at the same time , the onion, and I think they said this to me and I kind of felt it was you know, the onion is trying to grow as every company tries to grow , but there's only their comedy is very restrictive. Their tone, their sensibility is a perfect beaut iful thing. It is. It really is. And yeah, but it can't do you can't bring in other voices. It can't make other shows that don't feel like the onion . So they're kind of limited in that. But if they had another property, if they had another brand and wanted to grow the overall company, the parent company, global tetrahedron , they could use this. This could be the vessel for that . And they would bring in somebody like me who's not of the onion, but is an onion adjacent similar sensibility to build like a comedy streaming platform. Have you talked to any of the Sandy Hook families? Are you that sort of in the Yes once on a Zoom? It was a very moving and very powerful, but also very positive experience . They' allre in very excited . One of the families was like, I can't watch your video. We had put out one of my videos of me doing Alex Jones. I can't watch it with my wife because she gets mad when she hears your voice because she thinks it's him. And so they were like they were laughing about. They thought it was funny. They're like, go hard or do it, you know , be as mean as you want or be as whatever. They just want to I think see this guy I don't want to put words in their mouth, but pay for what he did to them . And so all accounts I get them and their lawyer and all those people are just like thrilled about all of this. As much as you can be thrilled about something like this. Well, and I guess I'm curious for you, there's becoming the creative director of InfoWars, there's the obvious comedic appeal of that, right? And the ability to build something, which I want to talk more about , there's obviously an added layer here, right? And it's a really painful one . I guess how do you think about the importance of this move for you or like getting it right or doing right by those families, what added complexity does that create for you when you're trying to build something ? You know, it's a frustrating process on lots of different levels, certainly going through the legal process with the Texas courts has been an up and down battle and struggle . Just starting anything , whether it's a laundromat or a comedy streaming network is slow and painful at times and you're in the dark and so all those things are part of what's happening here. Plus I'm trying to do like nine other things in my career. Yeah, this is just to be clear. This is not your full time job , but that grounds the whole thing a little bit when you can go back to why you're doing it. And one of the reasons we're doing it is the legacy of that incident and the way he corrupted it and abused his voice to really add salt to the very terrible wounds that were already there . We're going to take a quick break and we'll be right back Ever notice how the second you Google something, suddenly every ad you see is about it or you try to watch something while traveling and it's just blocked? Yeah, the internet isn't as open as we think. ProtonVPN is a secure VPN service designed for people who want to prioritize their digital privacy and security. It keeps what you do online private and lets you access the internet like it should work , open , secure, and on your terms. Unlike most VPNs, Proton is backed by strong European privacy laws and years of expertise creating a safer, faster, and more open internet for everyone. They have a strict no logs policy that's independently verified. It's open source so anyone can inspect how it works and it's backed by a foundation focused on protecting user rights, not selling your data behind the scen es. It's easy to get started. Right now, ProtonVPN is offering our listeners seventy percent off a two year plan when you go to protonvn dot com slash uncanny . That's PRO TON VPN . com slash uncanny. For seventy percent off your two year plan . That's protonv in dot com slash uncann y . The world gets more interesting when we stop and ask questions. That's what Shortwave, MPR's science podcast is all about. Shortwave spends each episode answering a big question like, why do we have nightmares? How does AI affect my energy bill? And how can trash be good for the environment? In under fifteen minutes, Shortwave follows a question wherever it leads and brings you along for the ride. It's science, but not the kind you remember from school. It's surprising, playful, and full of wonder . Science isn't just for PhDs of the world, it's for everyone , including those of us who didn't realize we love science. At Wired, we love a good rabbit hole. We recommend listening to their recent episode Where did the Moon come from Earth didn't always have a moon. In the beginning of the solar system, when the planets were still forming, something happened that would change Earth's night sky forever. Cohost Regina G. Barber takes you on that journey . Follow MPR's shortwave podcast and exercise your right to wonder Hey guys, I'm Brian, the host of Brian Enton Investigates. Most other true crime and breaking news podcasters are in their basement or studio, but not me, I am out on the road every single week. From inside prisons, to murder scenes , to active manhunts, there really isn't anywhere I won't go. Coast to coast, I am all about old fashioned boots on the ground reporting. You have to show up in person to cover the news and get the secrets, and I have a way of getting people to talk. I cover stories others ignore with a relentless determination to get to the truth. Listen to Brian Enter invtestigates every day , wherever you get your podcasts. Now, legally speaking, and you are not a lawyer unless I miss something. That's one of the things I'm trying to I'm in law school as well. Obviously I figured it, yeah. But the deal is not actually done. Can you update us on where it stands now? I can try it. I mean, I give us your best my best attempt at this is that there's a there's a receiver and I don't even know what a receiver is, frankly. It's a person. It's a man with that title that title. It's like a notary republic , notary public , somebody who has been given all of all these assets because Alex had to. And we had an agreement with that person to then lease all that stuff from them. Right. On like a month to month basis. Yes. Okay. That would give us access essentially to the what we really care about is the DNS server. This is very wired talk. Ah, yes, the DNS server, if you're listening. Basically your goddy password or whatever. You know what I mean? Like you're named Let's call it DNS server. Yeah, fair enough. Yeah, whatever. We don't love go daddy. I'm sure Alex is using Go Daddy. Probably yeah that's really the core of it. I mean there is like there's gear and there's hard drives and there's I don't I think the supplements are outside of that purview but anyways they swooped in at the last minute about a month ago and got a stay through the Texas Court of Appeals , which put says nobody can do anything until we rule on it. Every other court in Texas has come back to the state to the Court of Appeals and said, stop that, stop it Let them do what they want to do. This is you're interfering or something to that effect. So nobody truly owns this at the moment. It's like in this limbo. Even the receiver, I think, isn't allowed to do anything. It's like cast in amber , which is the beautiful metaphor. It is the godddyad password. Yeah , yeah, yeah . But we are proceeding as if we have it. We don't care. No one's going to do anything about it. We're just going to we are enforce . That is who we are. You're wearing his skin. Yeah, we assume walking in the skin up in lower Manhattan. Yeah, so that will eventually it will eventually resolve. We will get it. The timeline is the court moves slowly. We all know the expression . But we're just plowing ahead. Where do you think your audience for this is? Are they going to info . com or are they watching clips? Instagram and YouTube and YouTube is a big . So you plan to be everywhere . Yeah, we're just gonna be everywhere. For a while, I really want to push for its own streaming app. I mean, I have my on cinema, which is the love of my life. You know, five years ago we started the High Network, which is now an app. It was a website. It is a website, but now it's a streaming app. It's a subscription site, but you go in there and yeah, we're still working on some bugs and everything. But it's essentially a Netflix experience for this world of comedy. There are so many ways to watch things. There's so many ways to watch things. And YouTube is great too, but you know, like the problem with YouTube and Instagram , first of all, they're run by the worst, very worst people. They are. And we're giving them free content by the truckloads. And they're giving you very little, if anything F personromalal profession experience. Yes, yeah. And you never know when they're just going to say, well, we don't we're not doing this kind of stuff anymore. Or you can't use this word or you know, they're very Byzantine and confusing and the more independent you can get things and still connect to an audience out there . You know, that's where we should all every creator should be thinking that in some way. So you've talked about sort of a few months of the Alex Jones bit . You've mentioned in other interviews that you want this to be, you want infoars eventually to be a place where comedians get their start where people experiment where they try different things. Can you talk a little bit more about that vision , sort of a year after you get that go daddy password and you're off to the races. What do you want Info Wars to look like? What do you want it to be for an audience? The comedy coming out of Infor should be a reflective of the internet and the moment we're in satirical. It doesn't have to be entirely satirical or straight one to one parody , but it'll be what a lot of people are doing our, you know, a food influencer parody show or something. Something that feels like this is reflecting how I use the internet. That's probably like the main ethos of the thing or the main kind of driver because that's where a lot of I think talented funny people are how they're expressing themselves. I think the medium of your comedy is becoming important, like what the vessel of the jokes sits in. You know, it's like what is this what is the thing? It's not just going to be a sketch with people in a living room talking about a crazy boyfriend or something . What's it going to be instead? Well, it'll like I said, like I keep saying it a food influencer, but oh, it'll be like my five to nine before my nine to five. That I don't know, but oh, it's a TikTok format. Okay, well yeah, format based. So that's like one way of thinking about it , I think there will be a sense of curation, a sense of stamping of oh, this is the same way Adult Swim was a brand that said I'm going to watch this show because it's on adult swim. They have curated it, certified it. Yeah. They like went by off. It went by my desk and our people that were helping, you know, we thought this was good. And then hopefully, you know, when we figure out the tech side of it that there will be a place to go, like an app . And also that there will be world building in there and that there will be characters that might start as just a reference or a mention in somebody's sketch or a character that comes and then they branch off and have, you know, in sort of the SCTV mode . And for a lot of people who might have gone around town pitching stuff to adult swim or comedy central and they say , yeah, we just don't do that anymore. You know, we don't we don't take risks like that anymore. We're just revamping the man show or whatever it is. You know, we're rerningun the office or something . Those people I hope we will be able to give some money to and they could do. I mean, the best thing about my experience with Eric and I coming up was we didn't get a lot of notes and we just got a lot of like , you know, Mike Lazo who ran adult swim for so many years just had a good feeling about us and thought we were funny and wanted and gave us the opportunity to go off and try stuff and see what worked. And we knew when something didn't work and we got better. So you want to be that? Yeah, yeah. That's that I mean that that person was so impactful for me that I always say this when we talk about it. It's like people are pitching ideas and it's like I look at this, I'm a terrible reader, terrible comprehension person . And I'm like, I don't know, like, I like this person. That's why we reached out , like, let them make something and let's see what it is. Alright, another quick break, we'll be right back. Summer always changes how I get dressed. I want pieces that feel lighter and more breathable, things that are easy, but still put together . That's why I keep coming back to Quinns. They focus on high quality essentials that feel and look amazing , from breathable linen to soft organic cotton. They sell well made basics but without the luxury markup. Quintz goes way beyond clothing, though, custom upholstered sofas, ceramic cookware, and premium bedding. It's the kind of brand you end up recommending to everyone for everything . I recently purchased a button up shirt made from one hundred percent linen sourced sustainably in Europe. This shirt is the perfect staple to add to my summer outfit rotation. Elevate your summer wardrobe. Go to quince. com slash uncanny for free shipping on your order and three hundred and sixty five day returns. Now available in Canada too . That's Q INCE. com slash uncanny for free shipping and three hundred and sixty five day returns quince dot com slash uncanny . The show is supported by Notion with the recent launch of custom agents, Notion became the collaborative AI workspace where teams and agents work side by side . And now their new developer platform is turning that workspace into infrastructure developers can build on. Notion's developer platform gives developers and coding agents the primitives to extend what's possible on Notion and take it beyond, connect to external systems, bring context in, take permission actions across your toolstack, and expose custom agents capabilities to any system that needs them. It includes new primitives that allow systems to sync any data source into Notion, build any tool for your Notion agents, and orchestrate any agent in Notion. Plus, it's easy to use. CLI authenticates in one line, workers deploy without provisioning infrastructure. And with a cloud based zero infrastructure path, you can just write your code, deploy, and you're done. Learn more about Notion'svelop Deer Platform today at Notion . com slash px. That's all lowercase letters notion dot com slash purx to try notions developer platform today. And when you use our link, you're supporting our show . Hi, I'm Stacey Mannick Smith. You might know me from Public Radio's Plan of Money and Marketplace. And I'm here to tell you about a new show I'm working on at Bloomberg Business Week. Yeah, it's called Everybody's Business. I'm Max Chafkin, a longtime reporter with Bloomberg Business Week, and more importantly, Stacy's co host . Each week, we will talk to some of the smartest people we know to try and understand what is happening in the world of business and what it means for you. We'll explain Trump's trade war, the AI bubble, Elon Musk's whole thing , and lots of other stuff. Listen every week wherever you get your podcast . You mentioned at the top of the conversation that comedy, I think you said it was a weird in place right now. What did you mean by that? Well, mostly like the Rogan right wing Tony Hinchliff , the return to this kind of conservative , I say return because I think there was a fair amount of that happening in the eighties when I was growing up. There was in general in culture, there was kind of this conservatism that was in something like Top Gun Andrew I won't say Andrew Dice Clay but you know I knew he was really doing a character but I think he did get kind of lost in the character there for a while and made brought out the very worst in a lot of people. I think there's a lot of intersecting things . There is the rise of the podcast , which has become in a way like I think a lot of the big companies are like, we don't have to spend a lot of money on these things anymore. Right. We don't have to spend any money on these stick them in this tiny studio. Yeah, put a camera cameras in here and chairs, and that's the new talk show. Yeah. And some of it's really good, but it's also kind of like weirdly like and I'm saying that I was just at another podcast . And don't you have a podcast? And I do have a podcast that I don't think about as a podcast. I think about it as a TV show because it is on YouTube. We've got five cameras, we have musical guests, we do bits. It's a more ambitious talk show than what most media companies are calling podcasts. Yeah. And I think it's a way to like skirt unions, it's a way to like not pay people enough money to live . So those guys were in the beginning of that. And so you have not a lot of interest ing comedy coming out by like cable networks and the bigger companies. There's stuff that comes out of course Tim Robinson so that he's he's got through, he's pushed through the fielders pushed through. I'm always shocked when I see something that he made that's like on my television because it's sort of like I can't believe they let him make that show. Yeah. And so there's room room for that, but there's not a lot room for a lot of smaller stuff, I guess or, more experimental stuff. And maybe there never was, but there was certainly a little period of time, I think, in the early two thousands where it really kind of worked for a lot of people. There's been a lot of hand wringing about sort of the quote unquote death of Late Night, right? Colbert, etc , a lot of controversy. I mean, do you , are you saddened by the death of Late Night TV? Or do you think it is sort of a format whose time has come. I think it needs to be renamed format that whose time has come. It's come it came a while ago. I grew up on Letterman and Early Conan O'Brien. Loved those shows . There was