The Toronto Drug Trafficking Trial

In twenty ten. Ozzie Osborne volunteered to be evaluated by doctors They wanted to learn given everything he put himself through with drugs and alcohol and everything else Why he wasn't dead When the results came back, it was discovered that his genome had mutated from all the drugs he'd taken His DNA contained variants that no scientists had ever seen before things that would have killed a normal person were just shrugged off because of Ozzy's genetic makeup The findings were so abnormal but they were presented at a prestigious medical conference, positioning Ozzie as an anomalous medical specimen. And this is how Ozzie managed to make it to age seventy six Keith Moon, another madman, didn't have these genes, which is why he died at thirty two Same thing with Jim Morrison, Jen Joplin, Jimmy Hendriickx, and scores of other hard partying rockers who died yng Now consider Keith Richards. As I sit here, he is eighty two He's still playing guitar, still recording, and still plays live with the Rolling Stones. If Ouszie was a medical curiosity I don't know what Kef is And it's not just the drugs and alcohol It's all the other things he's done and gone through I'm Ellen Cross, and this is episode sixty five of Uncharted Crime and mayayhem in the music industry I call this episode the lifeife and Cimes of Keith Richards O Keith Richards has been through so much for so long that he's a meme. There's one that has him rocking a baby Willy Nelson to sleep. There's another one that shows him playing guitar to Adam and Eve. And conventional wisdom about nuclear war is that when it's all over, there will probably only be two survivors on the planet cockroaches And Keith Richards. You've probably got your favorite meme Along the way, Keef has become one of the most admired and influential guitarists in the history of rock and roll It's fine, But given all he's been through, how is he not dead? Let me lay out the facts and maybe you can figure it out. Some of what you're about to hear was covered in episode thirty one, the Arest record of the Rolling Stones. This time though, we're going to focus entirely on Keith Keith Richards was an only child, born in Kent on december eighteenth, nineteen forty three. Dad was a factory worker who was wounded in Normandy. One set of grandparents were musicians and gave him his first guitar. He eventually got into Elis Presley, and specifically his guitar Scottty Moore He was a choir boy for a while, and his group once performed for Queen Elizabeth Keith was not a good student, and after he was expelled, he ended up at art college, which in the British school system was the place of last resort. And even then, he spent more time playing guitar than going to class. His main field of study was Chuck Berry. On october seventeenth, nineteen sixty one, Keef was on the platform at Dartford trarain station in Kent, when he noticed another kid with a bunch of R and B records under his arm. That was Mick Jagger, and they bonded immediately Over the next few months, Keith and Mick ended up together in a band called The Blue Boys. Keith dropped out of school, moved to London with Mick and another kid named Brian Jones, which outraged his father. They would not speak again for twenty years The Rowlling Stones were formed soon after, and in mid nineteen sixty three got a deal with Deckca Records, which might have been feeling the sting after rejecting the Beatles a few months earlier. Another kid, Andrew Lou Goldam, served as their manager, and for a while, he convinced Keith Richards to become Keith Richard to avoid confusion with pop star Cliff Richards And that stage nam confusion lasted all the way until nineteen seventy eight Oldam was also the guy who came up with the idea of positioning the Rolling Stones as the bad boys of British rock and roll If the beetles were polished, wholesome, and fun, the stones were dirty and menacing and dangerous. This worked extremely well with the British tabloids playing up this image with every chance they got One of the first bits of press along these lines was a nineteen sixty four edition of the weekly British music paper Melody Makup. The headline read, Would you let your sister go out with a roowing stone? And it was accompanied by some photos of the band sneering at the camera This tactic worked brilliantly parents freaked out, which only made kids more curious and devoted. The first recorded incident of Keith getting into trouble with the law was in nineteen sixty four He got into a scrap with a group of Americans who were insulting the stones while they were trying to have a nice meal at Heathrow Airport Keith knocked out one of the y Yanks cold and although security became involved, no charges were filed. The first known incident of Keith committing an actual crime was on march eighteenth, nineteen sixty five The Stones had just played a show at the ABC cinema in Romford, England The bill also included a new band called The Hollies and a group called The Conrades, which featured the future David Bowie on vocals A lot of beer was consumed that night, and the bass player Bill Wyman started complaining that he really needed a bathroom. Ian Stewart, who was driving a mix brand new car pull over at the Francis Serice Station Wyman tumbled out of the car and asked the attendant forty one year old Charles Keey if he could use the loop Charles, however, did not want these hooligans in his gas station and basically told them to shove off That didn't go well, so Bill, Mick, and Keith relieved themselves against the gas station wall A small crowd gathered to watch The Stones loved it, speaking some u Gestures The police were called, and eventually everyone was arrested Two days later, the news was all over the Daily Express Keith was among those arrested, but he was not charged. Instead, he was called as a witness, and his testimony was basically I didn't see nothing. By this time, though, Keith was starting to get into drugs It started with alcohol, of course, and then weed sometime in the middle sixties He was a fan of Mandrax, a highly addictive synthetic sedative which combined the active ingredients in both quallududes and soopur, which was sold mostly in Europe. LSD was in the mix sometime in nineteen sixty six, which really wasn't such a big deal, because although it had been declared illegal in the US, It was still completely legal to obtain pharmaceutical grade acid from a lab in Switzerland than game cocaine And then heroin That will figure into our story later Keith's next problem with the law was the first of five drug related charges. It came on february twelfth, nineteen sixty seven As was fashionable at the time, Keith had purchased an estate in the Sussex countryside called Redlands, a fifteenth century home It was here he hoped for peace, quiet, and privacy, the perfect place to write songs and do other things. On that winter Sunday, Keith, his dog, rat bag, Mc Jagger, Jagger's girlfriend, Mar Anne Faeful, and several others were sitting around listening to music with incense burning and tripping on LSD Totally legal thing to do at the time Also there with him that night was a friend named Grovy Bob, an art dealer who had some heroin on him However, the tabloid, the News of the World, had been running a series of salacious stories about pop stars on drugs. One such headline read Cop stars and hard drugs, facts that will shock you. It's from january twenty eighth, nineteen sixty seven The singer Donovan was hit hard in that one resulting in a raid on his house along with drug charges. The Wh, the moody Blues, and Cream were all declared degenerate enemies of the people But it was the Stones, with their bad boy image and them being the de facto face of the dark side of British counterculture that were the prime target. Someone had also tipped off the tabloid that Jagger was involved in the London drug scene and was often seen at dodgy nightclubs. In a story published on february fifth, the week before the Rided Redlands The paper claimed that he was taking benzodrine in public. He'd also flashed some hash and invited friends back to his flat for a smoke This happened, but they got the wrong stone. The person involved was actually Brian Jones This coverage greatly annoyed Jeger because any drug charge could ruin chances for a visa for an upcoming American tour. so he sued the paper But then, news of the world fired back. They had to prove that they were right about Jagger So on february eleventh, the day before the raid The paper passed information to the police that stones were doing all kinds of drugs at Redlands And this, they said, came directly from an inside informant The next night, nineteen officers led by Detective Sergeant Norman Pilcher A ride to Bedloods They knocked on the door and let themselves in No warrant They just kind of barged in politely making a big and loud deal of it in a very English sort of way. they immediately began searching the place, fully expecting to find a huge trove of narcotics Keith, who had Bob Dylan's rainy dayay Woman Numbers twelve and thirty five on the stereo at high volume had to be told repeatedly to take it off were annooyed the lyrics, which went Well, they'll stone you when you're trying to be so good. They'll stone you just like they said they would. that stone you when you're trying to go home and they'll stone you when you're there all alone But I would not feel so all alone Everybody must get stoned really not a drug song, but You can see why the cops were a little upset As far as the raid goes, all they found were a few amphetamine tablets which Jagger had acquired legally through a prescription in Italy And there were some traces of some joints in an ash tray. That's it. They never found Grovy Bob's heroins dash Again, this truth wasn't going to ruin a good tabloid tale The story became that the cops had actually interrupted an orgy woman and this would be Mar Anne Faithful was said to be completely nude and wrapped in an orange fur bed cover after she apparently and legitimately had taken a bath. There's also a story about a Mars bar that had been inserted in a place where Let's just say that few Mars bars go Disappointed, the police left. News of the world was unhappy and ratcheted up all the paranoia around pop stars and their drugs, especially the Rolling Stones Eventually, charges were filed with Mick and Keith appearing in court on may tenth, nineteen sixty seven Five weeks later, they were sentenced Mick was fined two hundred pounds had given a three month jail sentence for his amphetamines Keith, however, was fined five hundred pounds for allowing cannabis to be used on his property, along with a year in prison Both were sent to different jails overnight However, other newspapers rallied in defense of the stones. and after some appeals, Jeger was given a conditional discharge, and Keith was freed completely Meanwhile, the whole ordeal had become a cultural flashpoint across the UK. Drug charge number one was defeated more a lot more How does a surgeon harm patients and not face prison Underneath Staint Helena's volcanic lush scenery is a shocking, ongoing scandal. They did the damage to you. makeake our life Her than it used to be A surgeon came to help devastation behind I'm Luke Jones. After the Pitcan trials, I headed to a different isolated community to investigate Listen to the sururgeon of Saint Helena Keith Richard's next major run in with the law happened in nineteen seventy one Keith and the Stones had moved to France to escape the punishing tax rates in the UK, which would have seen ninety three percent of their income taken by the government The move to France was done on the advice of their trusted financial advisor, Prince Rupert Lewinsty Make and his girlfriend Bianca found a spot in Biot, a town near Nice. Phil Wyman was in the town of Grass Charlie Watts had a nice farm six hours away And Keeef moved to Villa Nelcot on the Cot desur It was a charming place about eighty years old that was used by the Gestapo during the German occupation of France in World War twoI This is where the Stone's album Exile on Main Street was recorded The mobile unit was outside and cables snaked into the sweltering basement At this point, Keith was using a lot of heroin The story is that thousands of dollars of smack was being poured into the villa every week French police eventually found out, and in november nineteen seventy one, three locals were in court spilling the tea on how they sold all this heroin to Keith French authorities finally got around to charging Keith and his girlfriend Anita Pallenberg for throwing parties where drugs were used They were tried in absentia and fin eleven hundred dollars each and were also banned from ever setting foot in France for at least two years. This marks the beginning of a residence in Switzerland Keith at a villa in Montreu You learned to ski But the real attraction was the high quality medical grade coke that was available in the country Later, in may nineteen seventy two, Keith and Mick assaulted a photographer at an airport. And later that month, Anita was arrested at Keith Soomman, Jamaica on drug charges and held in jail. Keith was worried he was next, but everything was made to go away with an under the table payment of twelve thousand dollars Keith was then arrested at his home in Chelsea on june twenty sixth, nineteen seventy three Police found cannabis, some Chinese heroin, weed, cannabis resin, burnt spoons, syringes, pipes, and mandras in a locked metal box under his four poster bed They also found a loaded handgun You're supposed to have licenses for such firearms in the UK, and Keith did not Keith says he bought the gun in San Francisco to use his protection on a trip to Jamaica, and then he had it mailed back to England. There was also the matter of one hundred and ten rounds of twenty two caliber ammunition There was also an antique shotgun, but Keith Swry had no idea where that came from. We didn't learn any of the gun charges until the court records were unsealed in twenty eleven This Bad Keith was charged with a total of twenty five offenses There was nothing to do but plead guilty at his trial on october twenty fourth, so he did Also appearing was girlfriend Anita Palallenberg, she was given a conditional discharge for possession of twenty five tablets of Mandraax Keace He got off easy. Four conditional discharges and a fine of two hundred five pounds Why was very lenient It was pointed out that Keith had been a very good boy and was trying to quit drugs Besides, he was so rich there was no way he had to steal to support his habit And as for the guns, well, they showed no evidence of ever being fired. so That was somehow a good thing sides Guns weren't really Keith's jam Elite. Big Sharp, scary. Hunting knives And that caused a problem on july fifth, nineteen seventy five Keith and Stones guitarist Ronnie Wood and two Stones employees were driving in a rented Chevyham palace to a gig in Dallas after a gig in Memphis the previous night. They were explicitly told to stick to the interstate and not to travel any back roads where they might run into hostile locals Of course, Keith did not listen His route took him through the small town of Fordyce, Arkansas And they decided to stop for lunch at the Ford Dice restestaurant. Kith ordered a sixteen ounce tea bone in fries Ronnie ate as much fried chicken from the buffet as he could Got along well with Waitress Wanda Pernell And they left her a tip of a dollar sixty five cents, which was quite a bit of money in nineteen seventy five After lunch, Keith and Ronnie promptly went to the bathroom to get high, and they stayed there for forty minutes laughing. and as Keith put it, carrying on good idea for a bunch of long haired English rock stars. This, of course, was the Bible belt in the American South. suspicious staff called the cops which was a bit weird, since Paul Holt, the owner of the restaurant was a huge stones fan But he was back in Memphis where he'd just seen the band the night before When it was time to leave, Keith got back behind the wheel of the impmala A few miles down the road at around three in the afternoon, They were pulled over by a black and white. You're driving recklessly, said one of the cops This was a problem The car was filled with drugs Keith had a denim cap with interior pockets filled with hash, some prescription drugs, and a little cooke They'd stuff the door panels with bags of weed, some very pure pharmaceutical cocaine, peyote, and mescaline And in the trunk was a suitcase full of coke What got the cops really suspicious Was Keith's big hunting knife lying on the seat They took that for an illegal concealed weapon This was the excuse they were looking for in addition to their contention that they smelled marijuana in the car They were told to follow the cops to the underground lot beneath City Hall for booking cops were ecstatic There had already been stories of drugs and bad behavior on this current American tour, and they were the ones to get the callar on the stones For whatever reason, though, they did not tear the car apart In fact, now that Keith and Ronnie have been caught They really didn't know what to do with them. And everyone in the car was able to flush things down the toilet when they were allowed to go to the loop Meanwhile Word got out The crowd was starting to gather in front of City Hall to watch the fun Eventually, two thousand people would be outside, which is pretty wild for a town with a population of less than five thousand. Fortunately, the Stones had a well connected fixer and criminal lawyer named Bill Carter, who, as it happens, was originally from Arkansas His sole job was to get the stones, most often Keith trouble By the time Carter got to Fordce, he'd formulated a plan He'd already been on the phone to his pals at the British embassy in DC. The cop's testony regarding evidence was suspect prosecutor was fresh out of law school And the judge who had been on the golf course all day was quite drunk Well, everyone sat in the hallway No one was ever put behind bars, and Keith and Ronnie amused themselves by riding bicycles up and down the hallways Carter went to work The police chief then tried to arrest the judge for being drunk There was a scuffle. And in the end, The judge ruled that there was insufficient evidence to charge Keith, Ronnie, and the other two men with anything In the end, all that stuck was a sketchy reckless driving charge, which carried a fine of one hundred and sixty two dollars fifty cents. That was no problem, because Carter had arrived with a briefcase containing fifty thousand dollars in cash. Just in case There was one more condition for their freedom. Keith and Ronnie had to appear at a press conference with their arms around Judge Wynn case closed Keith would later be pardoned of that charge by Governor McCuckabee on march ninth, two thousand six. which is when the stones played a gig in Arkansas The next issue for Keith happened on may nineteenth, nineteen seventy six. The Stones had just played a show in Stafford, England, and he was driving back to London on the M one when he crashed his nineteen sixty five Bentley Continental flying spur car that he called Blue Lena. He ran into a tree after falling asleep behind the wheel, and he drifted off the road Bentley was banged up, but Keith was okay. There were other people in the car too, but they were okay too Keith's son Marlin was in the back seat, but he was uninjured When police showed up, they found suspicious substances both in Keith's jacket and in the car There was a lot of coke and weed You see, Blue Lina had been modified with a secret compartment designed specifically for carrying drugs Keith was merely fined seven hundred and fifty pounds plus two hundred and fifty pounds in court costs for possession of cocaine. There was a charge of possion of LSD, but he beat that rap thing too, because things between Keith and the Stones pretty low point at this time, largely because of his drug use By the way, Blue Laner would later be sold at auction in twenty fifteen Someone paid one million one hundred eighty six thousand one hundred and thirty three dollars for it. This, by the way, was the same car used for a drug trip to Morocco after the Redlands incident in nineteen sixty seven I lot of history with that car. Keith and Anita continued to use, and his intake spiked after june nineteen seventy six This is tragic In February, Keith and Anita had another son Tara Jojo Gunn Richards. But while Keef would own tour with the stones in Paris Tara died of sudden infant death syyndrome The little guy wasn't even three months old. Keith says that had the band not rallied to help him He would have shot himself that night then came Canadian incident And this one was bad Really? Really, really bad. That story is next The next story in the episode of The Life and Crimes of Keith Richards takes us back to early march nineteen seventy seven. By this time, Keef had been busted for drugs multiple times and despite a few close calls, never had to serve any real time in jail This time It looked like his luck had run out Keefe had tried to clean up many times, but he always slipped back into drugs Haron was definitely his main thing now, and girlfriend Anita Pallenberg was right there with him. Keith's new friend was John Phillips of the Mamass and Papas He'd moved to London and quickly hooked up with Keith And one day, in february seventy seven, he came around with a bottle of something called Merc, which was very high grade pharmaceutical cocaine. very powerful Keith took some, and then he took some more Some more after that Mer Coke kept Keith awake for eight straight days was writing songs for what would become the Sun Girls album And during this binge, he arranged for two engineers in the studio Every twelve hours, one would go for a nap under the console while the other worked Meanwhile, Keith just kept going. On the ninth day, his body gave out. He fell into a big JBL speaker at his house, bloodied his nose and fell asleep on the floor where he remained for at least twenty four hours When he recovered had to get to Toronto The Stones were rehearsing and had booked the El Macombo, a three hundred person club to record a live album under the name The Cockroaches. Two so called secret shows were scheduled and were supposed to be for special contest winners only. Keith and Anita flew to Toronto on february twenty fourth, nineteen seventy seven On the way over, he took a hit on the plane, and somehow the spoon ended up in Anita's pocket Proms began at customs Anita was arrested because traces of heroin were found on that spoon. And then traces of heroin were found in her luggage They also found ten grams of hasash. This was just the start Toronto cops had prepared a special welcome for Keith at his hotel, the Harbor Castle Hilton On february twenty seventh police moved in, acting on some kind of tip that more drugs would be found in Keith and Anita's room they'd intercepted a package of dope that had been mailed to the hotel ahead of time And Keith had also secured some dope in one of his equipment flight cases. The cops made their way to Keith's door, all dressed as waiters, so as to not arouse any suspicion They knocked on the door of a sweet, and Marlon, his son, answered the door I thought it was room service And mean, why not? they were all dressed as waiters They were cops, and they were there to arrest Keith However couldn't wake him up. And you just can't haul away someone if they're sleeping You have to be conscious to understand that you're being arrested At this point, Keith had been awake for another five straight days and had just taken a big hit of heroin to come down As they tried to wake Keith. Turn the sweet upside down. There was about an ounce of heroin twenty two grams to be exact And that's a lot. H's teeith That took them about two hours to drag me out. I woke up with like rosy cheeks He's awake. you're under arrest G. I looked at the old lady and said I'll see you in about seven years, babe Meanwhile, the commotion attracted attention from other guests twenty nine year old Margaret Treau who had become friends with Mick was seen looking concerned in the hallway wearing just her bathrobe. She was there at the same time as her sixth wedding anniversary Pierre Because of the amount of cocaine was charged with intent to traffic, whichich is crazy, of course, because all that smack was madeant for Keith But if he was convicted He did face up to seven years in jail Keith was taken to a police station, booked, released, and confined to the hotel He could only leave to play the shows at the Elmacambo in march fourth and fifth You can imagine the poul over the group during this period As soon as the shows were over, the band left town Keith, of course On march eighth, Keith was in court again because after going through his room again, they found five grams of Cke That caused his initial bail to be revoked. But by this time, Bill Carter was there, doing his best to fix things, and he got Keith off on a technicality. Keith was able to leave Toronto after posting a bond of twenty five thousand dollars, and Carter also managed to convince authorities that Keith's addiction constituted a genuine medical problem and should be treated as such At this point, Keith, Bill Carter, and all his other lawyers were pretty sure that there was no way out of this one Keith was looking at two years minimum Past the time, Keith found a studio and recorded some songs And that collection still circulates under the title KR's Toronto Bootlegs By april first, he was free to move about a little more passort was returned, and he received a medical visa to visit the Stevens Psychiatric Center in New York City Detox treatment consisted of passing an electric current through his body via the earlubes and plenty of Jack Daniels as a diversion from the heroine. This worked well enough for Keith's visas to be extended and he was allowed to stay in the US. living in a rented house in Cherry Hill, New Jersey, where he waited for the Toronto situation to play out And he waited For nineteen months Meanwhile, the stones went ahead with recording the Some Girls album in Paris At least that went well They wrote songs every day, resulting in future hits like Miss You, Beast of Burden, Shattered when the Whip comes down, and Rpectable However Keith was not clean He'd spend his time in the bathroom shooting up between takes Keith was in and out of Toronto for a long time as his lawyers worked on the case. He had a private plane that took him back and forth from New York Keith Richards's drug trafficking trial began on october twenty third, nineteen seventy eight The cops thought they had an airtight case Pierre and Maggie Trudeau were a little nervous about the blowback they might have to endure because of Maggie had been doing with the stones Meanwhile, the Canadian government wasn't keen on how things were playing out When his lawyer stood before Judge Lloyd Gryburn They gave this testimony This arrest was a wake up call for the. He realized that he was ill, suffering from addiction, a genuine medical condition Their client was now clean and sober He never intended to sell those drugs, so the trafficking charge was unwarranted Various people testified on Keith's behalf, including Lauren Michels, the producer of Saturday Night Live Dan Ackrod did the same Meanwhile, it appears that the Trudo government may have been sending signals demanding that this whole thing be wrapped up rather quickly On october twenty fourth, Keith appeared in court wearing a three piece suit and tie Everyone stood when the judge entered the room and delivered the verdict guuilty, he said. continued. However I will not incarcerate him for addiction and wealth This greatly disappointed prosecutor Paul Kennedy, who had been asking for between six and twelve months of jail time However, Keith wasn't exactly going to walk free There had to be some kind of reparations and punishment The judge imposed a single condition Keith play a charity concert And he was very specific. This charity concert had to be for the Canadian National Institute of the Blind Okay, that's interesting. Why them This brings us to the story of Rita Bard. She was a stone super fan who just happened to be blind. But despite that, Rita was always hitchhiking to stone's shows Eventually, Keith heard about her and arranged for her to move from gig to gig with the Rolling Stones Radies was fed and cared for And now she wanted to return the favor Rita found out where Judge Graayburn lived She rang the doorbell proceeded with a passionate defense of Keith This is what moved the judge If you jail Keith, you will be doing a disservice to music fans around the world. The argument worked Keith's official sentence was one year probation and two benefit concerts for the CNIB that had to be staged within six months This satisfied everyone, including the prosecutor who told the press Well, at least I got her rolling stone off drugs Both concerts were held at the Osa Civic Auditorium on april twenty ninth, nineteen seventy nine Tickets went on sale just six days before the shows, and demand was insane five thousand people were at each performance Keith, Mick, the Stones and Ronnie Woods band, the new barbarians were there And John Balloue she was there He introduced the evening Fz from fellow Canadian Dan Acroard All right, I don't know if you know why I work on a sleazy late night TV show on Saturday Uh I did a movie in a An album with Dan Acklrod, fellow Canadian And he's in a Bahamas is a lazy bastard. And he told me to tell Io not No, no This band is coming up The opening act used to be called they were gonna call new vegetarians and they beenistaken. They call new barbarians, the opening act Each set featured ten songs, ending with Jump' Jack Flash There was never any appeal to Keith Sins Keith was free, and he was clean And it was all good forevermore after that, right? Well, no This is just part one of the life and crimes of Keith Richards, and there is still plenty more weirdness to come And we'll deal with that on the next episode of Uncharted Crime and Mayhem in the music industry Until then you can get caught up in all the previous episodes. They're available for free, where you download podcasts. And if you want more, there's my other podcast that looks at the entire universe of Alt rock called The Ongoing History of New Music, and there are hundreds and hundreds of episodes available all for free I'd love to see you over at my website. It's at journalmusical Things d. com. It's updated with music news and information every day. There's a free newsletter that goes along with it, and we'll probably run into each other in all kinds of social media platforms Email can go to Allen at Allancross. ca and I promise to personally respond Technical productrouction for Uncharted is by Rob Johnston. New shows come every two weeks Tal to you next time for partart two of the life and Cimes of Keith Richards Since the dawn of time, humanity has been at war. It has shaped the world around us. And if it somehow feels like we've been here before, it's because we have I'm David Boris. I'm a military historian, and on my new podcast Hostile History, I take us inside history's most defining wars and rebellions. From Gangghis Khan to the war in Iran, find out how the past can explain the present. Search for and follow hostile history on Spotify, Apple podcasts, Amazon Music, or wherever you find your favorite podcasts