Upcoming IPOs and Market Supply

Pushkin Stocks are down Way down No, wait. this just in. They're up. No they're down again No, they're definitely up now Today on the show Some zigzags in the equity markets and other markets too This is unhedged, The Mets and Finance podcast Wome from the FT and Pushkin, I am Rob Armstrong coming to you from New York City, where it's not just markets that are volatile, it is my internal emotional state canan't handle all this sigging and zagging I am joined Down the line from London by Dara McFadden, the newest member of the unedged team. Dara, are you managing to remain calm in the face of all of this? I'm reverting to the mean world That is the spirit So we've had an absolutely wild couple of days in markets, Dara Friday. Bysmal Monday starts strong and then sags drearily. And as of recording time today, we look like we might have a good one. What is all this chaos, Dara and where did it begin Let's go back to Friday. Friday was bad. and the reason it was bad was a job rep that was actually quite good So in the US, one of the key economic indicators we pay a lot of attention to is the non farm payrolls that comes out from the Bureau of Labor Statistics once a month Last Friday, we got the report for the number of jobs created in May And it came in far above expectations. There were one hundred seventy two thousand jobs created, more than double the market was expecting. And what's amazing about this to me is that if we were talking on this show four months ago We would be talking, and I'm sure, by the way, we did talk four months ago. about how The kind of equilibrium level of US job creation was zero Working age, native born population, not growing Donald Trump cuts off the immigration flows America can have a stable unemployment rate with no jobs added And here we are. This is the third report in a row We're adding, you know, one hundred thousand jobs or even more. It's an amazing turnaround in some way. Yeah, there's something kind of weird about that actually. fifty five thousand of the jobs that were created in May were government jobs. And that's not normal Normally, we'd expect to see around fourteen thousand jobs a month in government.. But for some reason this time around, there was a very heavy contribution from government. What are they all doing? All these government employees? arere they coming to spy on us? Who are these people If you know, listeners, let us know, but in any case Big spike in government jobs, you know, when you see a good jobs report, what you want to see is not non cyclical jobs in places like government or healthcare. What you want to see is job growth in the cyclical sectors construction, say or finance, something like that. And we did get some of that, didn't we Yeah. so in that respect, it actually did Pretty well, there were seventy thousand new jobs created in leisure and hospitality. Some of that is probably that we're heading into the summer season. We've got the World Cup starting in the US very soon. Understood, a pretty good jobs report, the third pretty good jobs report in a row Blame for the benefit of our listeners, the thing that puzzled them, perhaps, and certainly the Pident of the United States How is it that a good jobs report means markets go down Well, yeah, the market reaction just got Silly in my opinion. And partly that's because if you have a jobs report coming in that more than double the market expects, that suggests that the economy might be reaccelerating. Things are heating up More people are going to have more disposable income And that's going to contribute to inflation. And inflation means The Fed has to tighten Higher interest rates mean stocks go down. That's acc crude over generalization, but stocks don't like higher rates. Exactly. So the immediate response on Friday morning, know these reports come out before market opens or at the time the market opens was that the treasury yield spiked by about eleven basis points. I mean, the short term the two year term. shhort term. Yeah, yeah, yield. Yeah. so that's telling you the market sees rates going up I mean, it's a bit strange Because you know, we've talked about this a bit in the past or written about it in the column that it's almost like a situation where we don't know what the Fed is going to do Right? Because some parts of the economy look hot, other parts notot as hot. Wages aren't that great. So it's like you're looking at the Fed and we have a new Fed chair, of course, his first meetings next week You're look at the fed, youk What are these guys going to do? Are we, you know, it's it's almost uncertainty rather than just plain old fear of higher rates Right. We went into this year expecting that the Fed was going to cut rates. and part of that was because of this new chair, Kevin Morsh who has made a very strong claim productivity benefits of AI allowing him to cut rates. But obviously the picture has changed massively since the start of the Iran warar And it now looks like there's going to be all sorts of inflationary pressures coming down the pike. And by the end of this year, the market is expecting the Fed to have to increase rates. Here's something you have to explain to me, Dara If this market is up because AI is the greatest technological innovation and the greatest potential boost productivity since the invention of fire and the wheel combined How can it be that a market with that going for it can be spooked by the prospect of a point two five percent increase in interest rates. That just strikes me as all out of proportion It's kind of weird, isn't it? I mean it Part of the story has to be that they're freaking out about the idea that the borrowing costs on all the companies that need to do these expensive capital investments in mean infrastructure buildout are going to be much higher. I think that's a more plausible explanation because it's more short term. And the other one that I came up with is Maybe this is and we'll talk more about leverage shortly But maybe there is a worry that If the borrowing that investors are doing to buy stocks becomes more expensive, they will buy less stocks So there's different kind of causal pathways we can talk about But I think a point. the other aspect of this market that is important is not just that it has an uncertain and slightly spooky Federal Reserve hanging over it Its that it's incredibly narrow The data center stuff is all that's really working Yeah, if you're not in AI or semis at the moment, you're losing out. And it's interesting that not even Bitcoin is joining the party. You know what I mean? Usually six months ago, a year ago If risk sentiment was good, if the market was going up Especially in tech You'd see Bitcoin kind of chasing it up sympathetically and that has fallen away. which is is kind of the ultimate symbol. There's not ambient risk appetite floating around in the atmosphere, there's just AI appetite floating around. It's really different. Well mayaybe that's people selling their Bitcoin so that they can invest in SpaceX We need a name for that trade. listeners, we're looking for a name for the sell Bitcoin byy SpaceX trade. Any suggestions? unhedged at ft dot com dot I got a question for you, Dara, and I'll ask this question to you about the United States and indeed about the globe. We've talked about how the market is narrow Is the economy narrow? Yeah, I mean, the job support, even though it added one hundred seventy two thousand new jobs the other data on the unemployment rate and wage growth weren't as good. So the signs are that the labor force is actually like not growing very much like in terms of people joining the job market. And the signs are that the The unemployment rate actually hasn't come down in the last three months. So it's kind of stuck around four point three percent at the moment. That's not bad. It's not a great sign if you're adding one hundred seventy two thousand jobs and several positive job months in a row. But the unemployment rate is kind of stuck at that level. To pause on that, it is two different surveys Right? O is this this the the jobs added number comes from a survey of businesses, the establishment survey And the unemployment rate comes from a survey of households. So is some failure a fit there normal? I don't know. I just want to throw it out there as a possibility Yeah, I mean, this is an important point of all these sorts of data releases. They're preliminary, they're imperfect. There's different ways of gathering these numbers. further data comes in later on. and that's why we have upwards revisions later on. Yeah. You know, M maybe worth adding that for the data that came in on Friday We also got upwards revisions for March and April. Good point. And so there's ninety three thousand additional jobs for those months, if you combine the two of them. But you mention this and I think it is worth hitting hard We had been seeing real wages. that is wages minus inflation growth slowed down and we've hit basically zero now And that cannot be good for the economy at large in the United States Yeah, the story here is that real wage growth has been falling since its peak a few years ago in the aftermath of COVID and that supply shock. Workers were able to negotiate real increases in their wages. But if you look at the trend line over the last few months definitely coming down and it's now slowing at about three point four percent you know, the annual rate of wage growth The important thing about that is that that is below where we expect inflation to come in. We've got CPI data coming out in the US tomorrow We've got Kevin Whartst's preferred inflation data coming out in a couple of weeks time And the sort of forecast for those is that they're going to be, you know, above three percent, closer to four percent Which means if the average household is accepting a real terms pay cut? Yeah And that can't be good. And it lines up with what we hear from companies from Walmart to the food companies, or the whole retail sector You know I'm always suspicious of these comments by CEO's in companies that have direct contact with the consumer. But you know they always talk about strain on the consumer. The mid level and lower end consumer is under strain. And you know maybe that's because nobody wants to buy your peanut butter or whatever and you're just making an excuse But there's enough of these comments coming from the CEO's of retail companies that it feels like there is a certain number of American households that are feeling the pinch now. And you know, if somebody in the household isn't working in the tech sector, things might feel pretty different than it does, you know, if they are. That's right. I mean, on the other hand, the Fed may be able to rely on this to do some of its work for it on getting inflation down. cororrect. If the house If households don't have as much income, they're not able to buy as much with their dollars, then you know the Fed may be able Kevin Morsh may be able to let himself off the hook a little bit and not have to raise rates, which is really the last thing that Kevin Warsh wants to do given everything that we know about his desire to cut interest rates. Yeah. No that's fair enough. And I guess we areractually contractually obligated at this point to mention the drip drip problem of the Strait of Hormuz in the background with the strait closed inventories continuue to dwindle and the possibility, as we've written many times in the newsletter, of a real spike in oil prices that would depress household real incomes further It's just a live possibility in the next couple of months. So I mean, that's a genuinely tough one. I mean, we've all been surprised by how well the economy has done these last few months despite higher oil prices and less oil coming out of the Middle East does not look like this can go on for much longer. All of the analysis that's coming out from the bank says, you know, the inventories are falling. And if we get to August and there is not an open strait of a Hermuse then We're going to be seeing oil prices at like one hundred and forty, one hundred and fifty dollars per barrel, if not more. Yeah, ye All of this, of course, against the background. and you know I almost hate to talk about this because I've been talking about it for so long, but everything's expensive Stocks are expensive, cororporate bonds are expensive, spreads are tight Nobody really knows how valuations interact with markets or it's very unpredictable in any case. But you know talking about the volatility and the nerves and market, a background of having to pay a lot for everything. that can't help Right in terms of this volatility. Let's turn to the last topic. the one that many people, many listeners might have expected us to start with, which is we got some monster supply coming into equity markets in the days and weeks to come, starting indeed this week. Yeah, that's got to start with SpaceX to start trading on Friday Yeah. and That money Some of that money will be kn money coming into the market, but some of that money has to come from somewhere. And we think that part of that will be money flowing out of other investments. Yeah. no, I think it's really hard to say there have been high cash flows into U S stock funds. and that helps with this problem a little bit. In other words, new real money is flowing into markets These are this is a big IPO and then you know we have the Google secondary, we have talk of a metacondary. We have talk of an anthropic IPO, we have talk of an open AI IPO. There's just going to be more of the stuff to buy in weeks to come And you know, that is you've nailed it. Where do the dollars come from to invest in those stocks? What is the source? I think everything rides on the SpaceX IPO now, evenven though Anthropic and openp AI have filed their documents to the SEC which is their intention to go public They don't actually have to. That's not a commitment. And if market conditions don't support them going public can expect to see them delay their listing. Very interesting. And you know, you know why I find it slightly reassuring that everything rides on SpaceX, which just saying that, it sounds worrisome everyverybody involved from the invvestment banks involved to the fund managers involved, to the indexes, to the markets themselves, everybody knows this thing has to work if the golden goose, which is the US equity market is going to continue laying eggs So there's going to be a lot of motivated people making sure all these shares find a home at a price that looks good We will be all hands on deck with long in short after a short break Listeners. This is long and short, which is the part of the show where we go long things we like and short things we don't like Dara, are you long or short something today I'm short deal trinkets and all the sorts of tacky marketing that comes up around these sorts of IPOs. And I don't know if you saw this story, Rob, but Goldman Sachs has erected rockets in the lobby of its New York headquarters, which is its way of signaling that it's all in on the StaceX IPO Wh, I'm gonna to get me one of those. I'm gonna sneak into the lobby there and try to walk out with one of those in the guise of Can you bring us one thing? Yeah. I'm along the San Antonio Spurs. I live in New York and I love this city, but I'm not a NX fan having been born in Boston. And the San Antonio Spurs won a game last night and everyone on that team is about twenty years old And if there is anybody who can come back from being down to nothing. It's a bunch of twenty year olds It's the irreverence of youth So I'm longong the spurs. Listeners, we will be back with more longs, more shorts, and more discussions of all things markets on Thursday Unhedged is produced by Jake Harper and edited by Briant Erstatt, our executive producer is Jacob Goldstein. We had additional help from Topher Forehez, special thanks to Laura Clark, Greta Coe, and Natalie Saddler. FT premium subscribers can get the Unhedged newsletter for free A thirty day free trial is available to everyone else. Just go to ft. com slash unhedged offer I'm Rob Armstrong. Thanks for listening