Reflecting on the Directors' Careers

The year is two thousand one. I mean, would you be more interested in a band called simimply The Pusser Curs Are you more likely to buy a CD or read a comic, or watch a cartoon, or go and see a movie about a trio of luscious ladies called Juucy and the Pussy Cat? The movie? Juie and the Pussy Cats. It does have a nice ring to it. Oh yes Welcome to Unspooled. I am Paul Sheer, and this is a podcast about good movies, critical Hes, fan favorites Msies, andcaseia Msts. Normally, I am joined by my co host, L.A Times film critic, Amy Nicholson to talk about the films people consider the best ever made. But while she is away and can, we are leaving our best of lists and focusing on one person, one person's favorite underappreciated classic or film that maybe doesn't get enough love. This is Dealers's Choice, a series where our guests get to choose what movie they need to talk about and anything goes Like I said, today we are talking about two thousand one's musical comedy. Josie and the Pussy cats and that's Go back to nineteen ninety eight Harry, Ephont and Deborah Kaplan are riding high. They just wrote and directed Can't hardardly Wait a very well received teen ensemble comedy And they get handed something pretty unexpected The rights to adapt Josie and the pussy cats. Now this property goes all the way back to Archie Comics, created by Danae Carlo. It spawned a Hannah Barbera animated series in the seventies, which ran for sixteen episodes and then a spin offff called Josy and the Pussy Cats in Outer space So this is not exactly like prestige IP, but Ephont and Kaplin really interested in doing a straight adaptation. They devise a story that skewers American trend chasing in the entire music industry because The moment that we're living in in nineteen eighty eight is ripe for exactly that. It's the spring of two thousand one. It's a strange time. Boy bands and pop singers dominate the billboard charts. Inync, backackstreet Boys, Britney Spears All of these people are at the top of their game and Elphon, Kaplin who came up on Grunge music and individuality Watch it all start to disappear so quickly and replaced by something so shiny and clean and sanitized So they make a movie exactly about that. It's about a girl band from Riverdale who gets plucked from a bowling alley gig and rocketed to global superstardom by a record label that's hiding subliminal messages in pop music to make teenagers buy consumer products. And here's the joke at the center of the whole thing. Since the movie is a satire of consumerism and popular trends They want to create a world filled with branding and advertising so they need as many real brands as possible to make that satire have teeth. We're talking about Target McDonalds, Starbucks, Coca Cola all wall to wall but None of these corporations paid for their spots. They did it all behind their back So now Fasting Tara Reid is actually the first person cast as Melody Valentine. She's fresh off American Pie. Then Rachelie Cook gets the lead role of Josie McCoy. She's coming off She's All That, and she beats out actresses like Zoe De Chanel and Maggie Gyllenhall Then for the role Valerie Basist They are trying to figure out who's the right person. The producer Babyface encouraged them to think about music stars and they audition people I mean, that are inssane. It's Beyonce Alah. Lisa left Eye Lopez, they all audition for Valerie. but at the end of the day, that part goes to Rosario Dawson. Now the film has a murdder' row of supporting players from Alan Cumming and Parker Posey who are the villains to cameos from Seth Green, Brecken Meyer, Donald Fazon, Carson Daly. Carson Daley, by the way, in this plays a character himself who tries to kill Tara Reed's character and they were actually dating at the time. So that was kind of a fun thing. Now for the music, they bring in Babyface as an executive producer, but the songs are written by an all star indie Dream team, Adam Susinger from Fountains of Wayne, Matthew Sweet, Jane Whedon of the Goos, Adam Durtz of Counting Crows, and Kay Hanley of Letters to Cleo, who also provides the actual singing voice of Josie Soundtrack hits sixteen on the billboard topop two hundred and goes gold, selling more than half a million copies And the movie It kind of just fall apart. Josie and the Pusscats opens in seventh place with four point five million dollars against a budget betweenetween twenty two to thirty nine million. It is a genuine box office bomb Um, and most likely due to the fact that they didn't know how to market it. twenty years later. It is now a cult classic in retrospect Uh, it is kind of been reevaluated as one of the most incisive studio comedies of its era, essentially a movie that was making fun of a system it was simultaneously trapped inside of. Now who brought us to Ridale Who wants to talk pussy cats? Well? She is a podcaster and cultural critic for the ringer she appears on podcasts such as The Prestige TV podcast and House of R. formerly a senior writer for Vanity Fair and a perennial lover of all things fandom. Please welcome. Joanna, Robinson, Joanna. I amm so excited to have you here Oh, what a joy, What a delight. I'm try to remember the last time I talked to you on a podcast, and I feel like it was Westworld. Is that? Oh my gosh. Yes, I mean, that is far too long. Maybe even Westworld when it was good I don't even think we were in We' in the sour seasons of that. tell you excited I was when you submitted your list of films that you wanted to talk about and Joe's and the Puskatz was on it because This is a movie that I absolutely love, but Enough about me, I want to know why do you love this? Why was this a movie that you wanted to talk Yeah, so the prompt from your lovely producers were, you know was sort of whatever I want to talk about and You know, I love your I love unspooled. I love what you and Amy do and you guys have covered such iconic Yeah films. And I was like, but if I just get to pick a favorite, I thought you kind of a demented list,. And I was just like, what are the movies that I always w to talk about, but there's never really an occasion to talk about them. Jelseie the Pussy Cats, one of my all time favorite movies. It's a real handshake movie, a real if you know, you know movie. And when you meet another Josie fan out in the world, you're like, o, you get it. I see you. You see me And so I just want I'm thrilled to know that you're one of those people, Paul, and I'm thrilled to talk to you about it Heat up your Fourth of July at the Home Depot with our wide variety of grills under three hundred dollars and make every gathering one to remember. 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Law Supplies last ends june thirtieth terms at aka. mS slash collllege PC O school Okay, so let me tell you my experience with this film because I saw it It came out in theaters And you were one of the few. One of the few. I was I was really I was part of that four point five million opening weekend I mean um, and I think I want to maybe see it as like, oh, this is going to be So bad it's good, right? Like I didn't know because we're at the time of like the Flintstones and weird like he that's not really good I like loved it and that was It was crazy because you would go out into the world and be like, oh my God, this movie is great and no one would believe you. Like, well, you're doing a bit. No, I'm not it's literally very, very funny. was And that's the hardest thing with this film is like believe that it could be good Right No, you hear that. and I don't know if the existence of the show River Dale has like helped that or hurt it. I would guess hurt it. But you know, I grew up on RC comics for sure. Oh really? Yeah. like, you know Archie Betty and Veronica, not so much, like Josie, et cetera. But I loved those comics. But it was my sister, my sister, who's older than I am by four years and sort of handed everything down to me. Yeah. I was in college. She was, you know just out of college and she's like, I saw Joseie the PostS. I promise you it's great. I think she burned me a CD of the soundtrack and the soundtrack is best ambassador to the movie. A plus soundtrack. So good. So she burned me a CD back when we did that. of the soundtrack. And then I remember I rented it from a blockbuster and I had a bunch of friends over, I think it was like a girls a Galentine's Day thing or something something like that. And I was like, my sister swears is great. Let's watch it. The room was really into it in half were' it and I don't know that was the occasion for it, but I just loved it and became obsessed with it. And then like I said, just meeting people in the world who get it and showing it to people is also incredibly fun. So yeah. I'm always like railing on this thing that's happening in our world, which is like We're not able to identify satire and, um And it's we take things at face value. and I feel like that's what this how this movie seems to be received. Like, you know, there's a lot of reviews where it's like, well, it's just wall to wall commercials. It's like, well, no, no, that's the point Are you kidding me? Yeah. She's showering in a McDonald's shower. like you like it's and it's so frustrating because I think when you do a really smart satire, doesn't play like a satire. There's a great quote that Ariryasstor said about Eddington, it's like tell you it's a satire then then it's not. like it didn't work, right? Like it's like you can't you can't like tell people that. like they have to figure it out for themselves and, um And that's what I think is hard because I think if you just looking at it It's going to feel like, oh, this is just one of those movies, but the themes are Awesome. I mean the fact that they got Carson Daily at the height of TRL to play a murderous version of himself is insane. What is going on? are you Is this TRL or not This is not total Request Live It's more like total request dead. Yeah, you see, ladies, we've only gotten one request today. And that's to kill you guys said he's gonna kill us. Like that's the request. man got the bark. Serena Alshall also doing MTV news. Yeah, J you know, like all the product placement is his own thing, but the fact that they got MTV to participate in this and also are bringing in like VH one behind the Music to be part of this as well. It's just the way that they got for some reason, the industry itself that they are skewering to buy it and participate inside of it is astounding to me and just a miracle of it. It's so funny, it's so bitingly funny. and the jokes just fly a million jokes a minute. I just don't get I don't get people who don't get this movie, I guess is what I would say. I would also say like We'll get into all these like little details, but the Tar read This might be formance in anything. I really agree. I think she's fantastic in this. I'm not a teror like apology to the Sark Nnado heads, but I'm not a terror reid fan. like No Yeahah, I think this is Rachelie Cook's best performance. Rosaro Dawson hass done so much, but it's like up there for Rosario. th three of them just have such great immedia chemistry together. and then this is like You've got Alan Cuming and Parker Posey, L like the king and quQeen of Camp are here just giving it their everything. Alan Cumming, I think just steals the whole movie for me. I think he's outrageously great. So. Wyatt? Yes. Could you make me talk to Marco about him always doing my face You remember in the what video I established the face Well, ever since then, every time you see Marco, he's doing the ace and it's mine. You look at him on TRL. Hi, Carson You look at themem on the kids Choice Wars, This is ours sns. And then right here on the cover seventeen magazine, hi, littleittle Girl Beauty Secrets It's my face It's my face. Oh hey, Travis, am I doing your face? C God forbid, I do your face 'cause it's such a good face.aceold. Thank you, laars. Now listen, listen to me. cry Let's all take a moment. When we land, I will call the choreographer and she will give you a new face. Oh it's too bad your mama couldn't give you a good face. Take that back right now I was thinking about this when I was watching, I was like, I love Alan coming in. It's like, wow, his career is gigantic, but then I was also thinking did something kind of similar in Spice worldorld too, right? Like he was in these two very big movies as like this kind of mustache twirllling guy. but I feel like the difference here versus Spice World is like Spice World, I think had sort of aspirations to kind of be a little bit more subversive than it was, but I don't think the writing and directing actually amplify this where in this movie they really let them do their stuff and it's like watching Parker Posey like at full strength just being like the Parker Posey that we love against him is is just like I can't I can't get enough of it. And apparently like Parker Ponesy only had like two weeks. So they were shooting through all of her stuff so quickly. And they're just electric together and they seem like they're improvising and just playing in every little moment Yeah, something I heard an interview that Debin Harry gave was that Parker only signed on because Alan comoming signed on, right? And so they kind of came as a package deal and that the two of them together were really just bouncing off each other in delightful ways. It's interesting to me the way that the legacy, you know, this is now considered a cult classic and I feel like when when an anniversary rolls around, I think especially twenteth anniversary five years agos Is that around when the Mondo vylies came? Exactly. I think the Mondo vinyl came out like yes, I think the twentieth or seventeenth year, it's out. like it's like. And that's like when the concert happens, right where they do that amazing thing at the Ace theater where they get the entire band together. Yeah. And I did a super Yockei put out a bumper sticker that says Dujourine seat belelts, which I still have on my car. have literally two bumper stickers on my car and one of them is Dujourine' seatbelts. And I only and I get questions about it all the time. peopleeople like, what does that mean? And I was like, it's still see the pussy cats. I don' know what to tell you. But I was at do you remember that Alanis went on tour like a couple years ago and so I was up in the Bay Aa at the Alanis concert and I saw someone else in the parking lot had a Djourine seatbelts like bumper cirer and I was like exactly. this is the demographic exactly for this bumper cicker. hereere we are. so yeah. I mean, and that's the thing too. The movie opens with this song from Dujour and I feel like It's so From moment one just like it's assured of what it is girl. And I feel like everything that I've really heard from Kaplan and Elphon is like There was no hesitation and really no pushback because it was living in this world of you know, a twenty five to thirty million dollar movie that they're like, yeah, go do your thing. Like it's not going to be like we're not putting our blockbuster hopes on this. I mean, I think they wanted it to do better than it did. but it they they got to really just do it where they're doing this scene about like you know, it's like or lover it's like and these guys are like simulating like fucking each other and it's And it's like there it is. And I also understand like if you just brought little girls to it, 'cause I think that's how the movieies started to get marketed. R. Like that's going way over their heads. R? Aolutely. Yeah. That movie kind of falls in this weird zone of like they market it to kids, but really it should be for the twenty to forty year olds You don't But the twenty and forty year olds, it's like, how do you get them to the theater that they actually feel like it's cool? And I mean, the thing I read about this that blew my mind was they actually released a family friendly home video version of it. and that was one of the things that actually helped explodeed. It was like, now family friendly. Oh Sbody just like took out some words I mean I think they just did a lot of like it's like a TV edit that was in blockbuster.ow. Like And it said now family friendly. W. I mean, and it's pretty family friendly as is. Totally. You know, But yeah, I also think that one of the things about this movie that I was blown away by on this watch was Good it looks And then realizing, oh, that's Matthew Leitique, right who is like known for like requ for a Dream, Black Swan. you know, like he's amazing. Like, you know, a star is born. Like he's Darren Aronovsky's DP. Yeah. ye. ye. I mean, it's funny I was really struck rewashing it. Earlier today, I was really struck by the use of montage in this movie and how effective you know, it's a musical, right? This is a musical. And so we've got the band performing, you know, occasionally we get the pussycats or Dujour performing a song in a performance way, but mostly we're getting it as storytelling montage The opening credits. Is them establishing the relationship between the three girls via a montage Yeah of three small words. And it's just it's perfect. So by the time the movie actually starts, I'm already bought into their friendship and their relationship and their hobbies and like everything about them. Exactly. And then we got like, you know, there's like a little bit of like a love kind of weak love story, but that's fine, but like a little bit of a love story, montage in here, their explosive success montage You know, their makeover montage, like a lot of shortcut music video storytelling, but it's really effectively done in that, you know, this is a this is a really quick movie. It's a ninety eighty minute movie. And it's just everything is just fits together so perfectly. Well, I love that thing where they're kind of riding the billboard chart Right? And it's like at the beginning of CGI, so they don't really have like they're not ully doing it to other.ike they're literally climbing around on sets and they're building it ins and it looks so good And then you play this moment of them like going from, you know, just released to number one and then like the immediate joke right after it is like I can't believe that only took a week. You know, it' like And the movie is constantly giving you both things, which is like it kind of pulls the carpet out from under you, but it also is doing the thing. like It was it Missy Pyle's character where they're like, and why are you here? And she's like, I was in the comic book. I was in the comic book. And it's like, and you just keep on going. Like it doesn't it like it allows itself to be this is the thing I'm always like obsessed with. It's like You're meta, but you're also not putting the brakes on the actual movie. It's like, you know, it's yeah, you're still doing the movie. Yeah, the line the line itself turns at the camera and winks, but the character doesn't. She's like I think casually looking at her nails and doesn't even make eye contact with the person she's tal That's a really good point when she's just like, I'm in the comic book.. You know, And so it's like You know, and later Alan Cumming is like, wouldouldn't you want to see a movie called Joe and The Pussy Cats, you know? And it's just sort of like it's part of his his , you know, really obvious sell to the girls and it's, you know, it's winky at the camera, but he's not wy at the camera. So it's just ye perfect, you know like and and I just wonder like has been such a big part of this film is I don't think that while they, you know, they They first of all, they cast it great. I think that's one of the things that you could make the argument of I can't hardly wait when you look at that cast I mean, another great like that was another one where you're like, oh yeah, this is fantastic. They got these people I think what I really like about them is that they they actually genuinely funny people in these parts. like they're not trying to go for just like the hot people. And I feel like that is kind of the other thing that that I think makes this movie separate from everything else. L they really wanted to find these right People like they were talking about like Alia, when Alah auditioned, they're like, it was too serious. It felt too real. L we liked her. It wasn't totally right. And I think that's the that's the thing like I think it's good they didn't cast Beyonce. I would have it's cool that Beyonce audition, but she's not right. Rosario Dawson is right Absolutely. I'm trying to remember when did Gold So Gold memember came out in two thousand two, right? And that was like Beyonce is doing a movie. And she's just like not very She's like kind of fun in that movie. She's not very good or funny in that movie. And Beyonce can do a million things, but she can't quite do this. And so I was thinking about that. I was like, what if they had cast Beyonce? Because the way they talked about her in audition, They were like, she was quiet, She was kind of quiet and nervous. And so we weren't quite sure If they cast Beyonce instead of Rosario Dawson, this is not as good of a movie, especially since the character Aval has to carry a lot of sort of the the emotion Yeah. She's got to be the real weight and she' the reason for like all the the second act kind of drama in a way. you know, yeah So like if you had a weaker actress or you know, you know, someone is as talented as Beyonce, but can't pull that, then this is a weaker movie. But it would be a curiosity. I was thinking about that. I was like, wouldould it be forever curiosity of like this is Beyonce's acting debut or if it is literally. But then I was like, but Gold member didn't . So I don't know that it would have helped the movie in any way to have that. And in fact, you know, casting Rachel Lee Cook actually usually get upset When you cast non singers in singing roles? Right Yeah. I usually do. But they Voice smashed K Hanley for cook like so perfectly? It really is kind of great. It doesn't bump at all. And so like, you know, these girls I put These girls Joseie and the pussy cats up there were like, top fictional bands of all time. like, you know, the Oiters like from that thing you do, like, you know, there's like an elite sphere and they're up there because all of the musical talents that they brought in and then the way that, you know, Tara Rosario and Rachel went to band camp long enough to look like they can convincingly play their instruments. It's just perfect inside of this movie. And the thing I can't quite wrap my head around is Like, why isn't this brought up in the same reverennce as Sinal tap. you know, and I think we're maybe even closer to it because Spinal tap captures a very specific Eera and a time with like rock bands And this captures a very specific era in time and it's its I think they're equally Joke wise, they're equally funny. and and I think that, you know, there's always going to be like a little level of like misogyny to a certain degree, you know, but it's like But this is I mean, it is I think of was just in this watch, like I felt vindicated that I liked it so much because it's been a little bit of time. And then I also was like mad that it wasn't getting enough L You know, like at this point it should be more out there and and obviously the Ace Hotel where like when they did the concert was like sold out in the Mondo thing like there is a giant fan base. I think culturally it still has like still needs to like kind of kind of puncture through a little bit more and be like because even that thing you do I think is put up on a pedestal higher than Josey and the Pussy Cats. Absolutely it is. You know what Joseie and Pus Cats really needed was an epode of Unspooled. I think that's I mean, this was gonna fine we got it out there. Where are you off to this summer? data weekend trip week long trip Whether you're thinking staycation or destination vacation, check out the travel section of Quint to get going in style Throw a napale leather duffle bag in the back of your car. You get this classic old school look going on, brown leather, black leather. veryery Paul Newman. You can head to a picnic with Quince's all day neeoprint duffelle bag, which has enough space for a weekend hotel stay and it comes in six colors, including a gorgeous bright bread Last year, I treated myself to Quince's Italian leather dual compartment toiletry bag. 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And so for him to be like the gateway for it is L on many levels great, but then also a great comedic actor just playing that so dead and like just so straight laced and so he's so good Oh my Godd, I love that. Hello. I'm Eugene Levy, and yes I'm an act Cppuccino I'm here to talk to you about something very important. No, it's not about me or my career. I'm here to talk about subliminal messages in rock and roll music, or as it's simply known in some cultures, rock music. You see, for years, the government has been wisely coercing teenagers to buy products they normally wouldn't want just to get their money factact, kids don't have bills to pay. fact They don't pay taxes But they do babysit and hold minimum wage jobs that earn them wads of cash as thick as well my body of work. We can have them chasing a new trend every week. and that is good for the economy. And what's good for the economy is good for the country. So God bless the United States of America, the most ass kicen country in the world They also, yeah, you know, it's funny to think of him as like, he's this great Canadian talent, but he's giving this video commercial for like, what's good for the country And there's a girl in a gold bikini with like an American flag behind him. I want to go back quickly to your misogyny point because I was like all ready to make that argument myself. I was like, it's misogyny. It's people discounting girl power things but then, you know This this came out. the year after Bringon on and Charlie's Angels, which were like huge hits and just a few months after this legally blonde comes out and it's a huge hit. So there was a you know, it was not that people were just not going to see girl centric movies and Legally Blonde coming out, you know, literally this comes out in April. It comes out in July the same year It coming out like just a few months later and having a similar sort of satirical take on girliness and pink and blondness and all of that. And I just wonder if it wrapped itself in enough of a Straightforward RomC package that it it hit on multiple levels, whereereas Dosy and the Pusy Gu is just so Sirp ed like at all times that it didn't it can't pass that you can't just like watch it as a fun girl band like, you know, makes it big movie and it has all these other jokes. It's just like too Almost too smart? I don't know if I That's what I was thinking too because there's a quote that like Harry Alphon said he was like We saw Charlie's angels and we're like, oh, we're screwed. L and like and because I think what was doing was playing it straight. It was like, it is Charlie. I love Charlie's Angels as well. I rewatched it a little different than Oh yeah. There's got some stuff in there? Yeah. So I showed it to him. I was like, this is gonna be great. and we all were like, huh. that like it plays it straight and I think that like legally blonde is Like feels like it's forward facing and making fun of being like, we know blondes are like, you know, it's like it's playing on the trope of blonde or something like that. Like And I feel like this movie If you look at the poster, There wasn't anything and this is maybe the marketing of it, right? It's like right. Oh, it's like I don't think that There's no nothing in my mind That makes me go this is going to be a funny movie. It's going to be like Viva Rock Vegas or whatever else. And I feel like and in my thought of the misogyny aspect of it, it's like there might be a part of like, well, Surely it's not funny Like it it's it's about girl band that it's not gonna to be it's not a funny movie, right? And's like And that's what I think it is. it's a subtle distinction within it because they do you think you're right. Like it's like, oh, well, those girls are Everything else is like playing into the world that they're making fun of. So they' verting the world, and then I also think that there's just an element where and I think this is why that thing you do is probably viewed a little bit higher than this because it's like It's sort of like, yeah,an. Yeah it's like because I don't think that people have seen it. That's the other thing too. It's like that's the like when you show it to people that have not seen it. they're they're, oh, oh, I get it, right? And I think there's like a realization here. But the fact that this is not like Um I don't know, I just think it' like so many years later it still feels so tr like the way the algorithm is feeding you what you want and what you need. It's like, this is it. they're right. It's even more transparent now and we're still sort of like in the clutches of it. And I think I think it was before its's time in many ways. And I also like on the marketing front I wonder if they had trouble marketing this, not just because they picked the wrong demo to target, but also like Is it difficult to get marketing people to with a movie that is about how damaging marketing is. You you know that Is that an uphill battle? Well, you know, I was thinking about this the other day because I was writing this thing about like blockbusters and I was like trying to wrap my head around like what why You know, we are living in this world of high concept, likeike what's the high con you know, it's this, but that, you know, it's this and And I looked at Popstar, another movie that I think is an underrated gem. like so funny. and again, capturing something again, another period. like that's the Bieber era And I looked at the poster for that. When you look at the poster for Popstar It's Andy in a Bber pose by himself, legs crossed face painting d like face looking down and it just says popstar. And if you were to walk by that in a movie theater You would think, oh, this is another There's nothing on it that says comedy. There's nothing on it that says like that's Andy Sandberg It's just like that's that. And that also flopped because they don't think I think that marketing people don't know how to make comedy or position comedy because they don't know how to like sell that it's funny without it being like oververt and sweaty. Like it so they walk this weird line. It's like, o and a lot of comedy posters terrible That movie with Paul Rudd and Jen Aniston that David Wayne did, I always think of this as are perfect. No, this was the one that it was like Wander no. Wanderless. Wanderless. Okay. Which, you know say we will about the quality of that. like I love David and I think it's fun, but Posters Jennifer Aniston and Paul Rud and they're back to camera So you're just looking at the two of them jumping off a pier, but you don't see their faces. And I'm like, wait You got Paul Rud and Jennif Anderson you're not showing their faces on the poster? What are we doing? I think to your point, ith faces chiefly, I was thinking about this is like, how do you market a comedy? And you market a comedy by saying, Hey, Will Ferrell's in this. and And Adam Sandler's in this. and And likeoon event Sander Bullook is in this. You know, like, we've we've got a, you know, Misa McCarthy's in this. We've got a comedic, you know like Ed Murphy is here. whoever it is like they're known for comedy. We put them front and center and you walk past a Will Ferrell poster with the exception of Stranger than fiction, which is still a really funny movie. Like you know, you're like, you're like, oh, I'm gonna laugh at whatever this is, I'm gonna to laugh at it. Yeah. And if you hide that, you know, you need the branding of the comedian almost or back in the day, the sort of like SNL property that was like brought to the big screen or something like that. But like Rachel Cook Tara Reed with love and respect, even though American Pie was a huge hit and Rosario Dawson, the three those three girls are not selling anything, you know So I don't know if you would like if they had put You know, Tara Reed was a star at that point but I don't know if you would put like a star of a young female star who was known for comedy in that role. doeses it change it? But I actually don't even know if that girl exists. I don't know who that girl is. Like who and, you know, it's like you look at this poster and it's a like the three of them in the back of a limo like kind of hugging And then the CDs in front of them And yeah, it just looks like a straightforward. I mean, it's them obviously, but it doesn't tell you anything and this is a hard thing because we are like such a culture of just like looking at you know, making a snap judgment. I mean, and I think that the Jud Apatao era was really defined by exactly what you said, those posters which were like Here is Steve Krell's face looking up forty year old Virgin. That's a beautiful a beautifully dumb poster because the title is funny, the picture is funny and then it's like Seth Rogan knocked up. It's like that face is funny and super bad the two of those guys like like they're very It's, I think also like playayful title, but it is. it's front and center and knowing that you're going to get this thing Um, yeah, I don't know I don't know how you unless you made the poster like to your point like making fun of branding a movie poster. like, you know, which then it gets confusing too because it's like, what am what am I looking at? What am I What is what is this puzzle? Yeah, I don't know And I'm curious, you know, as we keep revisiting it every five years or whatever the case may be, or every day if you're a true believer, the I'm wondering like if in this moment right now With Parker Posey coming off of that season of White Lotus that really sort of put her in front of a different audience than her entire career has. And then Alan Cumming in his like Titors moment. Is there a way to like sort of bring the white Lotus and Titors people to just and put them on bo. Yeah. Well that they think that that's and I think also you're right. They should be more revivals of this. Get this out there. I was like they should do a yearly concert or at least every year every five years because I think that You know, the thing about this movie that also is amazing is The music is very good and that that is tricky. That's a tricky thing to do to create hit songs. It makes you also just go like, oh, I understand this now. I remember like Liz Fair. You know, I love Liz Fair Yeah. and she had great albums, but then she was like, I'm tired of not having like a number one hit. And then then like made an album where she like went with those people who did like Ashley Simpson like album and then she got all those number like that album had number one hits Oh, they know like I just I was always fascinated by that idea that like, oh, you can create a number one hit song and That's so bizarre. like it works on a level that like peies your brain the right way. It's true, but it's interesting because so Adam Schlesinger, who wrote pretretend to be Nice, which is supposed to be like the big hit for the girls in this movie. and also that thing you do, you know, the song that that entire movie hinges on that song being a h. He wrote both of those like imagine being the person, you know the late great Adam Sesions or, imagine being the person Who wrote both for Josie, the Busy Cats and the Oaters, right? Yeah No wonders. And I was listening to him give an interview about this, and he was talking about how I love Fountains of Way. And his band Fountains of Way, I'm a huge fan of. and all of their songs have this like incredibly catchy, poppy, propulsive, like beatlesy kind of energy to them. but he was like, He was like, I don't know why other than like Stacy's mom, he's like, I don't know why none of our songs way that thing you do hit. and he was like, because there's packaging that comes around it. It's like it's in a movie and everyone in the movie is saying it's a hit. and you got like really attractive people playing it. And you know so there's just like all this other stuff that goes behind creating a number one hit. It's not just like what I wrote, it's also all the packaging that comes with it. I think telling people it's a hit is a really funny thing too. It's like o Oh yeah, this is successful. And you're, Oh, it is. Of course. yeah. And then Kay Hanley has talked about how she's like, I think maybe I've done the best thing in my life dubbing for Rachel Lee Cook. She's like because I didn't I was so free, like nobody was going to judge it as me singing as myself. and so I could just like really give this extra energy and effort to it that maybe I was always kind of afraid to do when I was me in front of letters to Cleo. So you know, there's just chemistry and magic here. Adam Durt', I mean I'm a huge Ken of Crows fan. so like Oh yeah. Durt's being credited on a bunch of these songs and Babyface like sort of orchestrating the whole thing is just L This album rules, it's so good. Well, I think that there might be a part of it where If it doesn't mean anything to you and you're trying to capture something, it might be easier because you take off all those thoughts, like, well, is this cool? Is this like representative of me? like, you know, and and that I think is a tremendous freedom because it's sort of like, you know, no, we're supposed to make it poppy and it's supposed to be light. And so then you can kind of play into I always feel like parity or good parody is fueled by like, oh, it's so frustrating. you fong for this dumb shit. like, you know, and it's like but you' like you can you can do the dumb like it's like, yeah, I could do that too. L I think that like, u like, u the lead finger River Cuomo is like, I could make hit songs on everything. I know how to do it. I don't want to do it all the time. Its like it's also that thing of like I'm glad you brought up a starars born. Like you if you construct a movie Around the rise of a singer. I mean, you know this like the most notoriously hard one to do is about comedians. It's so hard wor something about standup comedy. like a million different people have tried to make a great stand upp comedy, movie or TV show and have failed. You've got you know, Studio sixty trying to do like this S andL thing and if the comedy inside of the comedy is not working. That's why Thirty Rock did work. But like if the comedy inside the comedy is not working, but you're telling us these are great comedians that you know, you're just completely checked out. So the music be so And they just like they really got it, really. Well, I think there's something funny about like trying to create comedy. because It's so specific. I've never really en like at the end of the day, you' like, oh, that's a poppy song. It may not be my favorite song, but I get I get why that works. has a good rhythm to it. But comedy, everyone is a critic and if it doesn't work for them, they're like, it's not it's actually not funny. Like it's like, wait, hold on. Like you can't say that. L I always had an issue when people would be like, oh, screw those like you know, Lry the cable guy. I'm like No, no, no, it's working. Like the people that are in stadium like it. Like they're not like, they're not like, oh, well, we'll laugh at this. We're fine with it. It's like, no, it works. So you have to like U But it's a funny thing how we write off people comomedy is written off and not to say that the sketches on stududio sixty on the Sunset Strip were any good. Oh my God. I remember a moment in that movie or not that TV show. I remember a moment in that TV show where like One of the characters is talking about how Who's on first is the best sketch he's ever seen and gives like a copy of who's on first.'s like, this is never happened. This is No one is referencing Abbotton Costello that is doing a contemporary comedy in the two thousands. That was really tough. That show was really tough. It really There so many talented people involved in that very, very tough show. I know And and you got to do it and it's and it's, you know, it's like sor in. it's like, yes. I audition for that and he Rad with me And I was like, I gott to get this show. It's going be great. And the detail I always remember from that audition was we were knee to knee. L I've never done that so eye to eye kn and knee and he was reading with me. And when I finished he goes, That's right It was great. It was great. I did not get the part. but I was told that's right. was like I was talking about this the other day with someone we're covering Euphoria now the final season of Euphoria. Oh yes. An incredibly gonzo experience. Yes we're all concerned. But I don't know if you caught wind of this, but Sidney Sweeney's character gave like a monologue from Anthony and Cleopatra. So she's doing Shakespeare on euphoria. Y. And we were ye, my cost and I were sitting there watching it together and we're going like, we're actually I'm like, is this supposed to be bad? or is it supposed to good? I can't really tell. And I was like, I think The slow pan in means it's supposed to be good. And I think often when you know, one of my favorite shows ever is this Canadian show Sling S Aarios, which is about a Shakespearean troroupe. And anyime they want to like show you someone who was really killing it, the camera either like slowly pans in or sort of spins around them. And I'm like I feel like there's like a thing you do when you're like tryrying to convey this is good act. R right here. It's hard. It's hard because you're watching an actor acting like, but this is actually the actor acting well. It's like I don't know. I'm not sure. Yeah, exactly. Oh God This summer, Prime V video takes you back before legally blonde, before law school and into the world of Elle Woods in high school. Set in nineteen ninety five, this Gemini vegetarian knows exactly who she is until her family moves from Belair to Seattle. Packed with iconic fashion, nineties nostalgia, and a throwback soundtrack, Elle proves one thing Law school was hard. High school was harder. From the world of legally blonde, watch Al, a new original series only on Prime video july first whver your think. It could be anything Canba helps you make that thing. Canampba is a simple online tool thing. It's a way to design with our magic AI tool things social media your thing, generate images or videos of your thing, make tecks or presentations to show your thing. Whatever needs to be done for your thing, Canva can make it an even better and bigger thing. Canva, the thing that makes anything a thing So You know what I think was like so interesting here too is u You know, they make Parker Posey We love. It she's the best And I also just love that they go that extra distance to give her this like thing of being an outcast in high school like it's such a I think there's something so fun and related. Like she becomes like a very stereotypical mean girl who's like who then ch she was a nerdy girl who became a mean girl and just only wants to get them in a bedroom just like to hang out and have friends. It's like that's main goal of throwing that party. And I think that that's like those are those soft spots in this movie. And I know I agree with you, like the romance plot is okay, but that kid who plays the boyfriendom man. Yeah. charming's great Charming. And it's like it's just enough because it doesn't need to be more than that. It's like you buy that he's a nice guy. And she likes him. and God bless. but But I do think it's like the fact that the movie can still that. I'm always wrestling with How do you How do you do both? How do you balance both? Because I think that people want They they want those experiences even though they're watching a comedy and Legally Bond is a perfect example of that. L a movie that's like, Heah were going give you all the jokes. We're going to give you all the things, but you're also going to we're going to give you all the things that are quote unquote cliche as well that you're and you're going go and you're going to go like House Bunny is actually House Bunny is even a better example of that. It's like it's an Adam Sandler you produced movie. It's like, yeah, but you got all that heart in there that you love. And I think that that's something that we lose a little bit in comedy. Jud was really good at that for a long time of of just giving you like Oh, right. like I have to give a shit at the end of the day. Yeah, I think that's a really good point. And I think yeah, I think is the sort of big showdown at the stadium show where Alan Cumming and Parker Posey reveal themselves like is it all a little eye roll? Yeah, but but then it knows it is. And so it all just kind of s All I ever wanted was to be popular Tell me, is that so bad Lisa Where does it call me? Lisa Snyder. Lifing Lifer That how is my nick name in school H school Lisa, it's me Wally Qite as one. Wally? al. That's impossible. First of all, it was a bh. I'm not I just started talking like that because I thought it would make me more attractive. And the way that these These three girls are presented, these three women are presented as like, just really goodood nice people like right. Okay, it's two thousand one, which is just Asolute primo time for like fat shy jokes. There's just like so much they're everywhere and every like anything you put on from that area, you're just like, oh boy, I didn't realize I was swimming in it all the time. Oh In this movie, when like Parker Posey's characters like takes sing one single pringle and then she's just like, Oh, I'm so fat. What do you weigh? that's's underndercutting that right in in the Absolute of it like when every other movie is like playing into it in a way, this is just sort of slicing into it and I just really like that.. And I do think that that's that all comes down to like and alphont like really just being comedy writers and it's like they really are just trying to find those little things. like even the way that the shower scene is not sexualized at all, you have Ter Reed in this shower And and what they do with it is so funny with her singing that dumb song and dropping that thing every chance that she get like it's like it's such a funny bit And, um, But yeah, it's interesting when you see a movie like kind of move away from the jokes or comment on the jokes because you would argue also that A couple months after this, everything really changes because like nine and eleven happens. and not to put that all in the context of everything is nine eleven, but nine and eleven does become like this era kind of ends like of like it's like, oh because it is like this fantastical moment that we're in. everything is nice, everything is clean, everything is easy relatively. And I also feel like This movie just is like right on the tail end of end of that that era too, which is really I think that people mistake this for a nineties movie because I do think that like two thousand two the first like. two thirds of two thousand one sort of get You know, that pre nine hundred eleven moment gets sort of suck back in. But it's interesting because looking at the fashion, the early Ots fashion in this movie is, you know pitch perfectly terrible. and thinking about when Y two K happened, you know, I was like a teenager into my early twenties at that time. and when Y two K happens And then we're like, oh it's the, you know, it's the Willennium. Like we're' in the f Rember that Yeah the future now. Every needs to be like shiny and sparkly and chrome and all the sort of stuff like that. And so it's just sort of like this really intensive moment of like The future is here, two thousand, here we are. And then yeah, and then nine hundred eleven happens and Right around like right after that time, Iite write and talk about this all the time. rightight after nine eleven happens, we get the first Harry Potter movie and the first Lord of the Rings movie. And we really shift into this era of escapism and fantasy. like it's not just enough to like give us a blonde who goes to Harvard Law School right like orcs and elves that to out of this world of here. Yeah like we like. Yeah, abbsolutely. It's like by. so Yeah, it's that's a really interesting like that that moment is a really interesting thing because I remember, you know the TRL was such such a thing. You know, we got to take over the TRL studios when we were doing Human Giant. No that was in two thousand five and it was already like it was I mean The funniest thing I always remember is like the lowest rated TRL episode ever was TRL Rembers nine eleven, which was like they did a nine eleven retrospective Like a like retrospective, it was like a week later. It was like, so it was like TRL. Oh my go We're doing special coverage of nine hundred eleven. That That's what I want from Kurarson Day. Yeah' exactly who the nation looks to you, Carson Day for some moral guidance. we were in when we were in that building, we were passing tapes of that nine eleven thing around because it was like it was it was like, what do you do? You can't on that set be like, you know, all the audience is sitting there. It's like it's not, it's not a place to have that conversation But I do believe that that kind of was the end and like when we were in the studio it wasn't that it wasn't the same thing, but that night that we were in there people gathered around the street and what was so cool about it was like that TRL studio was like a hub in New York where people are like comoming to like, uh, like I mean, it's Like we're looking up at celebrity and it was like it was such a, you know, it felt all everything felt Like uh I don't know, like I feel like us and them in a weird way of like shiny and bright and we're just like these peonons and baby, Britty will shake our hand as she walks by And and I think you're right, And then just thinking about post that it's a very different thing. It's just not like it just like that's like when I remember living in New York City when like Brooklyn became a thing. people like we're going to Brooklyn. We're doing a comedy We we're see music in Brooklyn And you go out to like these warehouses and it was like it was a different energy of creation. It's like it's that book like Meet Me in the bathroom is very much like the strokes and everything like that. Like this other era comes to play So I also feel like I wonder if some of the backlash of this in the immediacy of it because it's like nine eleven's only a couple months after this is like, oh, I don't even want to go back to that time. Like that time is gross to me. Like I don't like the In sync the back street boys. It's like And that's why took a little bit of time kind of Yeah to come back to it. The post nine eleven not to make this J see the posty. podcast about nine eleven, but that post nine eleven like hard pivot to like country music and Oh boy. you know Yeah, Bush air patriotism and all the sort of stuff like that that like, you know, even trickled down to me who was so resistant to it is It's astounding to think about. and it's a really it's it's a really good point to think about spepecifically like two thousand to the first few months of two thousand one and what that like very specific era meant. We were out of the nineties. The future is bright. Y two K did not crash everything. Right We were still prepared for Y two K and not prepared for what was like right around the corner from that. Absolutelyolute But you know, I think that justust like again, rewatching this and just having such a it's To me, I also feel like you brought this up earlier. We are also missing out on these short movies. like comedies need to live and I believe like the you know, the eighty nine to one hundred minute range. and it makes such a difference because it doesn't get fat. it doesn't and it's like you're just in there and you're like, great,s it's over before it even started in a way and it's like you leave wanting more. and I feel like whenever I see an old comy, like, right that's the way we used to do it Just to be like, comedies were under a hundred minutes. It's so funny. L you know, my job involves a lot of like, you know, TV and film watching and I, you know, I have to carve out these windows in order to like do my homework or whatever. How do you do it? Becauseuse I'm always I'm like I'm always like saving it for the last night. like I'm like late at night and I'm watching things like late and I'm trying to fall I'm fall asleep and waking up. I'm like It's always because I feel like I'm cheating if I'm doing it during the day. I'm like, I can't watch this during work hours, even though it is work. It is work. No, this is one I was gonna say, I got home really late last night and I had to prep for a different show that I had to do today and I was like, I was meant to watch it last night, but I didn't have to. And so I was like, Oh, I gott to get up really early to watch it before this other show I have to do and then I'll come to d. So I got up really early and then I fired it up and I was like This is ninety minutes. I was like, we can talk this out easy, great. you know. Oh when I see how did this get made movie at ninety minutes, I'm like this is great. Now, can I ask you the little thing that every now and then I will do Is I'll watch it on a little bit faster speed, like a one point two five willill you ever do that? The only time I'll do that. is if I've been assigned a Netflix show that I'm not very interested in And I have to watch the whole season. And Netflix like right at the bottom there is like, we can we can help you do this a little faster. And you know, like especially if I'm doing one podcast episode on an entire season of television, like paying attention to my new details is not the assignment there.'re just trying to get like a big picture impression of what you watch. And sometimes I do find that the one point two five, it's like it's just, it's just pushing it bit quicker It's's not like, don't know. It's not like that. It's like it's just a little paced up. I did spend today as part of my prep listening to this great podcast series called Joseie in the Podcasts, I think it called. And I did listen to that at one point two five today as I was trying to like cram it in. But Maria Lewis, who did that series several years ago and she interviewed like Dev and Harry and Adam Schlesinger and like Kay Hanley and and Rai Lally Cook and all these people. it's a great like Like listen to this podcast about us talk about it. and then like if you want more, you should go listen to that. It was incredible. but I did listen to that at one point two five. Well I will also admit that preparing for this, I was excited and I listened to Best Movie ever, which is an oral history of Josie and the Pusquates. And I listened to that about a one point two five to get through the whole book, not just today, but did over the last couple of days And uh and it's a, you know, it's it's a great it's a great ride of again, it's everyone talking and I feel like The interesting thing is Whenever you talk about a movie like this, like, well, what was going on? And I think that The trick is like not much. They just made a comedy movie.'s like they're like, okay, great, how do we want to We see C can't hardly wait, what should be next? Oh, this is a musical. Cool. We can do something fun here. Oh, we can comment on the commercialization of like music, which is and it's like there's no like Oh yeah, we were there and we figured this out. It was like everything seems so like, o yeah, we just put the target logos on the plane and we just shot it there. And you know, and it's like we knew Seth Green and we knew Breckeneyer and Brecken Myyer' a married to Deborah Kaplan. and like it's like, yeah, we put them in and they improviseed because they knew each other and you know, it's like there's no grand story behind how they did it. It it's like, Yeahah, we just made this thing that you like And you want it to be like, o what what was that day like? And people just don't remember. I know. they're like, Oh, it was all very pleasant. We had a good time in Toronto. No really sort of bumps me out about this movies this movie flopping is like so You know, Deb and Harry make a very braady sequel in Viva Rock Vegas, you know, like two Whatever Right betteret than they need to be sequels of this kind of exactly what you're talking about, this like IP two big big screen. this like sixties and seventies nostalgia TV play to the big screen sort of thing. They make can't Hardlely Wait, which is my favorite teen comedy of the nineties. Like that's just is my favorite. I love that movie so much. They make Joseie of the Poseercast, which I also think is a perfect film And then I feel like it flopping just sort of like put them off their game of this exact kind of comedy because The movies that they made after Surviving Christmas, Made of Honor, Lapier are all very incredibly straightforward You know, movies and I've seen all three of them and like I don't particularly love them. And I think because they they got spooked by people not getting it and then they haven't like really shot for that since is what it feels like to me. Yeah, and I feel like I just saw it recently that was announced that they had a bidding war over a new romantic comedy script that was like a big sale at Paramount So I was really excited that that happened Because I was wondering about this a little while ago and I was like, well What have they done? And this is it's a hard thing because you also don't realize like there is, it's very real. Director's Jail is a thing where it's like very hard to get your thing made. And what sucks is like I think the difference now is Well, it was good Like yes, it failed but it was good, right? And that and that's a that's a That's a tricky thing. It has this huge cult following. It's only grown. It's like so they should get the comeback. But I watched some of that like Liza on deemand, which was like on YouTube. and I was like, this is actually pretty funny too. it was like a original YouTube show. but you're also like, o likeike that and I know that like surviving Christmas was completely taken away from them. You know, a thing that they did not feel like they that they had any control over. and You know, and it's it's it's a shame and you get like I get protective of that too because it's like, oh They They get you get penalized for making something good. You should only get penalized for making something bad Like, you know, I do Or like if you make something good and it flops Uh, you know, Yes, I understand why people get skittish around it, but like I feel like the reputation of Jesseie, the Pussy Cats At least in that sort of cult status rebound You know what I mean? L on the home video front. likeont huge. I understand them being in Director Jail for like a little while, but it should not have lasted as long as it did. And that's why I was so excited to see them like at least like in twenty twenty six, they just sold a big script. I'm like great.ike that is good and it's like, hopefully they will make it and hopefully It will be something that will u, you know I think also bring back a little bit of career appreciation for what they what they did because I remember also and I haven't watched it in a long time, but that very Brady sequel is er funny. It's really funny. Like Yeah. Vorac Base is also funny. Like the again, they're like way better than they needed to be. Does that make sense? L No, yeah. that's, you know, and and that's my own. I was like,, I'll never watch Vivaock But I'm like, oh, well, maybe no I will. maybe you should Yeah. Yeah was like 'cause it's like it it just gives you that kind of thing where're like, man, no, thank you. Right. You know, And it's And I don't know why that like that gave me that, but this gives me like I was there opening weekend. I love talking to you about this. This is so great. I hope that people give it a chance to kind of Just see it? Because honestly, if for nothing else Missy Pyle. Amazing. Like it just like it's anytime you get a chance to see all these people, these great character actors just abbsolutely killing it. and um is just I like I love a I love a movie where it's just chock full of like, oh my gosh, I love that person. And everybody in this is is truly that Um Well, now that we know that we share watching a little bit of one point two five, probably me more than you. I do let me see, I'm going to have my little I'll give you like, okay, I'll ask you this Anything you want me to plug as I lead us out of here No, I think just my day job just Okaykay, great. Ringer puet. I love talking to you. I'm so excited that we got to do this and you can continue to listen to you without me, which is probably even better. do the House of R and prestige TV podcast on the Ringer Network. I love everything that you do. You can also follow Joe wrote this on All Socials and that's just JO on all socials. Thank you so much for being here. Oh my God, thank you for having, Paul. Excellent work, Fionna Kids will never know what hit him And neither will you. I'm sorry, what was that Huh? What You just said something. No, I didn't. Yes you did? No, I didn't. Yes, you did. I said, theseese kids will never know what hit ', and then you said, and neither will you. I did. We all heard you. Thank you so much, Joe. Make sure that you are watching her over at the Ringer. I mean, she's on every great show over there. And I do love her book, The MCU The Rain of Marvel Studios Excellent, excellent. She is just I love her. Anyway, follow her on Instagram at Joe wrrote this or at her website, Joe wrote this. and that's JO not JOE. So jO wrrote this. comot All right, people, you're probably wondering, Paul, what else do you have to tell us? Well, guess what? We got shirts. That's right. Unspooled has new bespoke shirts and they're fun and they're different just a little bit left to center, not just a normal unspooled shirt. No, these are a little bit more fan favor I think. I mean, you have been buying them, so I'm excited about that. If you have ideas for our shirts, let us know. We maybe will make one of your ideas as well. But you can go to unspooledpod dot com and just go to our merch store or just go to tepublic dot com slash unspooled to see all of our amazing designs. If you're following us on social media, there'll be links there as well Speaking of following us on social media, have you signed up for our YouTube channel yet? It's YouTube d. com slash at. That's right at get unspooled. We have a brand new web series premiering this summer And I am so excited about it. We have our first couple episodes done and it's going to be very, very different from what this show is. So get there first. makeake sure that you have staked acclaimed. So when we launch our first episode, you'll get that little ding ding ding I don't know if it does a ding ding, but you'll get some information. And if you want to know more about Josen's podcast because I have a lot of research. You can check out our sububstack, which is also for free. just go to sububstack. com and you can get B dose of everything that you need to know about Josie and the Pussy cats. All right people. You're probably wondering, Paul, what do you have next week? Well, we got a real treat for you Cassic. That's right, nineteen nineties Die hard, J We're going to be talking with A person who knows how to mix action and comedy and so much more. It is the one and only Yorma Takonei from Lonely Island. He's been on SNL as a writer and a director. He directed Mcrver and pop star, and his latest film Over Your Dead Body is in Theaters Now. is on VOD now. I am so excited to break down Die H two, a movie that for the longest time I thought was superior to Die Hard one. Yes I've changed that opinion, but it's worthy of a bigger conversation. So next week, Die A two. We'll see you then