Final Thoughts and Podcast Wrap Up

the year een eighty four. But then one night the secret police broke into my house, They tore me from my family, ransacked my laboratory. brought me to this dungeon That sucks The movie topop secret Hey everybody, Wlcome to Unspooled. This is a podcast about good movies, critical hits, fan favorites, Mies, and in case you missedems. We have covered the AFI topop one hundred. Now we are checking off movies from three major lists. The letterbox top two hundred fifty films with the most fans, the IMDB, top two hundred fifty and the New York Times one thousand essential films And we'll also be chasing our own curiosity as well whileile Amy is away in Cann, I have invited a very dear friend to come and talk about a movie that's number one on his list , you might know our guest today Oh my gosh One of the best. He has been in hit shows like the Office and the Hangover series. We were in a movie together called Family Switch You should really get to know his podcast, SnaFu, where he unpacks stories of epic screpts throughout history and how these failures shaped our modern world. Please welcome Bad How are you? I am so good and I am so dang delighted to be here. and thank you for that beautiful, lovely, flattering introduction But I have one quibble. Yeah, what? You left out another movie that we did together. Oh my gosh, I balld Well, no, that way That's an even deeper cut What other movies have you done?? I'm sure we've done a few. Weren't you and meet Dave Oh yeah, Ed. my favorite story of all time, where I was fired, rehired, and then ultimately cut out of the film. Oh tenant buttocks. I don't know if I've ever I don't know if I've ever told you that story. It was one of the the craziest stories that I was fired U And I didn't know why. I couldn't quite figure out and this is a much more compacted version of the story. And then when I talked to Brian Robbins, he goes, Hey, man, you know When I sell you your audition I thought you were a big old fat guy And I was like, oh goes, Yeahah, I need to see Astrk on that first scene Hes like, I need askkrack. You didn't have As Crack. I couldn't open Lieutant Buttocks without a big fat ass And what? And that is why I got fired and why the wonderful sound mixer was cast in my role moments after I was fired in the film Whoa. That is that is random. It is a I had a great time and met Eddie Murphy, which was a a true thrill. I know that you also are a big Eddie Murphy fan. Yeah, big time Yeah, that was huge. And then and then Eddie, I guess had a falling out with the studio when they released the movie because I think they they They said that We I remember I went on one of my first talk show appearances ever to promote that movie and They said, you can't talk about Bace premise the premise of the movie is that is that Eddie Murphy is a spaceship and he's full of tiny aliens controlling him. And you and I were little aliens inside of Eddie Murphy. You were in the command. You were in the head command. was the I was in the head. Yeah. I was in the butt. I was in the butt. And Husky was in a joint like a shoulder or an elbow or something And and then Um And they it was a same they told us they told because what was that other one that that he did Jupiter? Oh, o the Mars one, right? It was like Pluto Nash. Pluto Nash. Yeah. Pluto Nash had had had tanked. And so they said, you can't talk about Like sci fi or space. Oh man. even though the premise of the movie is that he's a spaceship and we're all aliens. And so they were so scared of of that movie having tanked And I think that really I don't know what it was that that pissed off Eddie but he wound up not even attending the premiere. God. And the movie just didn' didn't do anything. It's a charming movie. It is. I wonderful premise. I loved the script so much. I did too. I remember reading that script on a plane and going like, this is going to be a giant hit. It's Eddie Murphy in Eddie Murphy Everybody's really funny. Kevin Harts in that movie I think too, right? Kevin was in the head I think No was it was a crazy great cast, Elizabeth Banks Uh, but we were but again We were all separate because The aliens never leave the ship ultimately, or if they do they're in very miniaturized versions of Rselves I don't know that Yeah. I just remember like like you said, we got to meet Eddie Murphy and work with Eddie Murphy and that was like the coolest thing ever This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome, that's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a fifty page restoration block, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online makes sense? There's no place like Chrome. 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All right, so let me just set the stage a little bit The year is nineteen eighty three and the filmmaking trio of Jim Abrams, David Zucker, and Jerry Zucker are coming off the surprise success of airplane a movie that basically rewired American comedy with its rapid fire dead pan absurdity. and the studio says We want you to make another, but instead of repeating themselves, they start thinking bigger. What if they mashed up completely different genres, an Elvis Presley rock musical and a Cold War thriller. And that collision becomes top secret. And this is a movie that's not a parody of just one thing, but an entire era of pop culture into itself to tell you When I reached out to you to do this I was like, give me a list of a couple movies that you would like to talk about And you sent over a list that I absolutely loved. And at the top of that list is a movie that we're talking about today. seecret W is a film that I feel does not get much love in the world of like spoof and parody. We talk about airplane all the time done by the same team Yeah. But topop secret kind of falls in this weird middleground because Nicka Gun is also like notot a full follow up, but a lot of the people involved creatively went on to make Niga gun, but topop seecret kind of falls in this like weird middle ground I agree with you. And I wanted to know like why is that movving like number one on your list You know, it's funny. I I was going back and trying I was thinking about why is Top Secret just not why doesn't it have the status of those other movies? Um and because it's arrguably funnier. like I think it's one of the the Funniest Zucker Abrams movies of all time and Um And I think it's because it's not as identifiable. like it likeike airplane is such a specific parody of a disas airplane disaster movie. Right. And and then Naked Gun is such a specific parody of genre of both TV and movies. Of course, it started as police squad u which was a parody of TV shows and then Um And so those were known parodities. They were things that people sort of instantly got and understood seecret is this wild mash up of World War I movies Elvis movies Beach party movies. It's like all these these funny kind of things mashed up together There's a there's a western saloon there's a saloon fight randomly in the middle of it. like underwater, of course, we'll get to that I'm sure, but it's It's just one of those movies that's kind of hard to pin down Um And I I have always felt like it never got the attention it deserved. Yeah, because I think, you know, we we actually talked about this on our airplane episode. The movie that they based airplane on Airplane is like a shot for shot recreation of it. They just made it funny Right And I feel like when they attacked this, they just brought in all the things that they had been making fun of their entire life because they started off, you know, with this kind of sketch group that was making these really funny videos like the, you know, so they They really, I think, go deep here for whatever reason, and I'm going to say that one of the biggest reasons why this movie doesn't hit is because it comes out the same weekend as ghostbusters. And I think no wait did it come out this I thought there was some story where they pushed the release. Oh and maybe like it was it was Scheduled. to come out the same weekend as Gremlins and Ghostbusters and they they then pushed the release which which pissed off a lot of exhibitors. But and maybe that's why it kind of It missed its marketing window or something and maybe that's part of what I guess I' sort of speculating here. Well here's what I will tell you The The week that it come oh yeah. Okaykay. so You are right? The week that it comes out is june twenty second, nineteen eighty four Busters has been number one for seventeen days. Gremllands has been there for seventeen days. Indiana Jones in the Temple of Doom, Rhinestone, the karate kid start three, the search for spock and then topop secret So it opened against Rhinestone and the Karate Kid And also in the top fifteen is pololice Academy and Romancing the Stone as far as comedy. So the the multiplex is packed with Classics and yeah kind of crazy that Rhinestone with Dolly Parton and Sylvester Stalloone opens above it rightight like which is But this is also Val Kilmer wasn't a big star at all in this moment. likeike He was I don't even know what he'd done prior to this, but but he wasuch an unknown, right? They kind of found somebody, you know that do it all. He was you know, a very trained actor. and I think they were going on that same path that they went on for plan, which is like let's just cast who look straight, likeike Omar Sharif is the biggest person in this movie. which I Which again, I don't think that's going to be bringing people out in nineteen eighty four. I don't know if like, you know, Omar Sharif is going is going to get those box office dollars I do also want to talk about the poster. It's pretty terrible. It is a yellow poster. with a cow in work boots. a lot behind this cow in work boots. and it just says top secret on it. There's not even a picture of Alchamer, N not that would have made a difference. it just says from the makers of the original airplane tell you that there is nothing oster or I catching. And the title it's unclear. like it's just sort of what does that mean? And then the cow is sort of like it's just one part of the movie and it doesn't really sell the the hum like what the movie is about or even the tone of the movie Um, you're right. them I hadn't thought about that, but but a lot of the the graphic art for the movie was just a little off. They really didn't serve the movie very well. They bet everything on a cow wearing boots would be the thing that would bring people to the theater because it really was like a yellow poster with cow Wearing boots, a topop secret stamped on it. I think there might have been a mini Val Gilmer on it you think like From a directing point of view, this is a movie that is beautifully shot and they do Some sequences here that are so much more interesting and visual than they did an airplane and and even make a gun. I' think agree. And the scale of the jokes, like the commitment to the production design and the prop building and all the things that that went into some of these physical gags are so intense and elaborate and they're just like three second visual gags, like for example U, when they're pulling out of the train station There's like three distinct visual jokes when they're pulling out of the train station in the first act of the movie where First, the train platform. you know, you're looking through through the train car out the window and the train platform, of course sort of disappears as they drive away. But then you realize that the The set you're on is stationary and the train platform is the thing rolling away Eactly. And then cut to a wide shot and you see it on a flat bed rolling away then There's a guy suddenly They the train is now moving and you're seeing outside The trees sort of whooshing by, but all of a sudden one tree is keeping up with the train right for no reason. This is the most insane joke Wh Wh thought of this and why and how and and they built clearly they built some long dolly track to put a tree on and then chase the the train set and then a guy is running after the tree and he jumps on and holds ono it like he's going for like he's a commuter riding tree to the tree And and that is and it's just these little jokes. they don't really comment on them. They're always happening It could be as small as when they're making a plan, they do this like very simple, we're going to put like an X in the dirt to kind of show you what our positioning might be. And then it just keeps on building that not only are they putting an X in the dirt, but they have built a full on life size replica model of the place that they're breaking into so wonderful. Th then you're like, oh, that's funny and it gets funnier because the model is more intense then Like a motorized train goes around it. Yeah. like it's it and they just keep on moving the joke density here, R? And then the heightening. What you're thking to is the is the the joke math, right? Yeah Like that the heightening of the jokes just keeps going and going and going. Um, but like To your earlier point about the scale of the jokes, just from a physical production standpoint. U so many giant practical executions of these jokes are happening. For example, the Um You know, they have that there's a they There's this giant electromagnet Right in and they turn it on It attracts a submarine that bursts through the wall And this is a very realistic looking I'm exaggerating that and I'm figuring how did they do this? How did they do this? And because it is practical. It comes through the wall. giant and then someone comes out of it. Also raising their hand because the guards have found out that they were doing something wrong in their prison cell really is like precision and a lot of the way this crew directs is it plays in one shot. so Right. It's not very cutty And there are just little jokes. I was watching with my kids last night And there's a moment where there's, you know, this dramatic scene where Val Kilmer is talking to his love interest in the film and they're at a pizza place in Germany and behind them The kids are trying to get like slices of pizza off, but the pizza cheese is gotten too long too stringy. And everyone in the restaurant is like trapped in this stringy cheese And and then we cut away from it and then it's gone. and And I think I was watching it and going I think that their true secret here. was never Winking at it, never I mean, that most they look to the camera at one point when they say it's almost like we're in a bad movie and they stare at the camera. You know, Valk Kilmer' playing it really straight. Val Kilmer is doing hiss amazing. He's amazing. ammazing in by the way his Elvis dancing in the in the that that big restaurant scene in the beginning is his Well, actually, the numerous musical numbers. Yeah because Elvis dancing is spot on Well, it like apparently that's what won him the role. So they were looking for actors and again, they're Sool of thought is they want to go the Leslie Nielsen route. this idea of someone who can Just deliver it straight. They can't find anyone I also think the success of airplane, people probably coming in trying to be a little bit funnier, not actually understanding what they wanted. and they can't find them. And they hear about this play called Slab Boys. And Slab Boys was an off Broadway play with Kevin Bacon, Sean Penn, and Val Kilmer. Man, I would kill to see that. Right? And they in what? nineteen eighty three, two ninety three Exactly And they're like, let's bring that guy in and they bring him in for an audition And He reads it as if he's auditioning for, you know, an Elvis movie and then breaks into this Elvis turnurn M loose song, right? And they're like Wait, hold on, you can sing and dance too. We got our guide. And that was it. like he, you know, he came to this as if he was bbodying Elvis and part of it caused a lot of friction between, you know, the creators and him because You know, he didn't want to do the gags always because he was like, oh, it's undercutting my Elvis and they're like no, no,ow. You have to play it straight. We have to do the gags. It was And I think that that tension though creates a great performance becausees. It he treats that character U with Gravitas. Yes. I mean, that he's Jilliard trained, right? So he is like, you know, and and there's just something about it, you know, and And even in his biography, I'm not your or I'm your Huckleberry, he's like, I don't really know what that movie was about. Like he's still not quite sure Yeah but it just committed. There are a lot of There are a lot of aspects to that movie where you're kind of like these You're just looking at these great actors and there's so many character actors in the movie that are that give phenomenal straight performances in the service of just Asurd silliness And you're like, these people just really Trusted these directors. They really put them in the directors hands because the things they're saying and doing are so ridiculous and insane Um the and the direction that they got presumably was to do everything with all of that gravitas and seriousness and the World War II kind of intensity u of a World War I movie I and It's just all the sillier for it And I think what's really interesting is to your point, They donon't stay anywhere too long, right? Like you said, they are parotodying like the Elvis movies, the beach movies. prrison movies and you know, they and they even do theon lagoon. Yeah And that was to me, I was like, oh wow, the movie kind of just breaks off at any given point. Yeah. You know it has that Kentucky fried movie sensibility where they're just cutting from genre to genre to genre, but it does hold together as a movie. Well,re you're so right. It's like Kentucky Fried movie with a plot sort of Overlaid in a very loose one, right? And it's like but enough that you can follow it and you care about it because They are They are essentially creating enough thread that you can follow and the love story at the center is nice. likeike I ye I like that by the way Really fantastic. Yeah Gut Gutridge, what? Lucy Gut Lucy Guttridge reallyally great. But yeah, you look at this list and it's It is a lot of European actors. This movie was shot in Shepherdon studios, you know in London Uh, and I think they just got great Great actors. Yeah for sure. And it's I I really like how you brought up that cheese, that pizza cheese joke earlier becausecause that speaks to and this It's It's kind of fitting into this Kentucky Fried movie. comparison too because Uh, this This movie, even though it has a coherent plot. and if you watch the movie paying attention to the plot, it's actually very coherent. Yes. And there's and there's because there's so many lines that you miss because you're watching the physical gags the minds are actually supporting a straight plot It's almost as if they They just had so many silly ideas for scenes and just created this pastiche and glued it together. Right Well I guess like when you're no rules. When you're looking at these movies that they're parroting and again, they're, you know, Elvis movies are not finely scripted affairs. neeither are beach party movies, right? Even like the low tier World War I movies. So it's not hard to put like a script that's up to the the status of the others, right? Yes, there are some great ones in there, but this It is it's easy because there's so many of these being made I think what I really love is the way that this movie opens. You have this great scene with Omar Sharif, find this hky man on the train and you think, oh, this man iss going to get killed by like a passing bridge, but he's so big that the bridge actually breaks, you know, like g breaks. We have that But then when they when they cut into sket surfing, which is this beach Bys number, that falcomer's not even in That is to me, this movie lives in my brain so much that like that is one of the funniest openings in a music video parody that I've ever seen that that really We're there for four or five minutes and it doesn't really have to do that much with anything else. L because it's like everything is about people having guns, you see the top Three songs on the chart are all songs about skep by Nick River. You're you're Skeetin heart with with Lucinda Williams or something or Tammy Wynett with Tammy Wynett and he's posing on the cover of like Rolling Stone with like a shotgun Yeah. And it's such a a fun way and we and again, we don't introduce him in that scene. I was kind of shocked at that and rere watching. it was like They just shot this independently of Val Kilmer. like And yet it's the whole movie is about him and we really kind of first meet him train sequence and and let's also not forget that that we're You know as ten eleven, twelve year old boys at that time, we are the target audience and there's a lot of bikinis in that first five minutes. I might again that' Yeah, it's just like the way eightyies movies drew in look like youngng boys. I mean, I think I thought the most sexual shot I've ever seen. Well this movie does and I want to talk about this It does have a lot of horniness in it. But that opening scene where like a woman in a bikini is sunbathing and she gets up and you realize that her breasts have been indented into the sand. Yeah. I was like, Oh my God, I've never seen it right And that's the thing about it. The movie has this like kind of body sense of humor and to a point where I wanted to watch it with my kids but I was like, ooy there's certain things I can't watch. like the ballet scene where they're doing it this, you know, beautiful like Swan Lake All the male u, you know, dancers have erections and the woman is like kind of dancing on their erections on top of their erections. Yeah. using them as like foot as like pedestals to dance on top of. And then it's like there's this great middle storyline of this guy you can't get his wife to orgasm. and he's gotten this like insane like vibrator. And as a kid, I remember watching that and not really understanding what it was, but I knew it was something. I didn't quite understand. And I knew it was Tauddrey. Yes. And then And it's revealed later that he's just impaled himself on his own vibrator. And it's like, you know it took us hours to get the smile off of his face. But yeah, I was really interested in how dirty like or horny. horny is a better term because horny like it's not like Dirty where there' there's no nudity, but it just feels like a young boy and it does feel like it captures that sensibility. like it's more like kids poking each other and saying boobs than it is then, you know which I guess is a tremendous amount of restraint too, because I guess at that point they could have done whatever they wanted and they definitely did in Kentucky Fried Mvie But u But yeah, was I was surprised at that. and And in watching it just being like, oh, I have to be careful to show all of this to my kids because It's just like, you know, when she goes down when when the love interest when she goes down on the guy from the bllue lagoon with a measuring tape to measure his penis, like that's another just a side joke. It's just going on in the background. A lot of dialogue is happening and my my son walked in on that moment. 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Kingdoms were reduced to cinders and armies scattered like bones in the dust. Now the survivors claw to what's left of a broken world, praying The darkness chooses someone else tonight But in the shadow Dark Darkness always wins. This is old school adventuring at its most cruel. Y torch ticks down in real time. and when that flame dies, something else rises to finish the job. This is a brutal rules light nightmare with a story that emerges organically based on the decisions that the characters make. This is what it felt like to play RPGs in the eighties and man It is so good to be back. Join the Glass Cannon podcast as we plunge into the Shadow Dark Every Thursday night at eight PM easastern on YouTube dot com slash the Glass Cannon with the podcast version dropping the next day. See what everybody's talking about and join us in the dark school I got a chance to interterview Zaz and play this movie the San Francisco skketch Fest. Really? And we did it at like the Castro Theater, beautiful theater, you know, it was completely sold out. And they had never really experienced the film in that way where it was just non stop laughter And it was really it was a big live audience. A big live audience that love the movie because I think that they had seen it a handful of times, but it was an and I think it does feel to them a rejection of what they were trying to do because this was a this was a bigger swing. It's like, we'll make our own thing. And then they go and make Naked gun, which is incredibly funny, but Naked gun, like to your point is very much straight down the line. like we're doing cops. And I wish if this got received better, we could have probably gotten A much bigger world where they are continually spoofing so many things. rightight. But yet I think they kind of started to stick in their own lane after this. It's like It's a bummer because they were right they you know, they yep, they were wrong too, you know, or they they were wrong. Yeah. Yeah. or yeah, just I I The narrative I like is that It wasn't marketed properly. It wasn't released properly. It was up against too many Too many major blockbusters And and it just didn't get the exposure it deserved. And if it had and this of course this is the story, this is the counterfactual that I that I like to Yeah, tell myself that that if it had it would have absolutely crushed And and yes, I agree with you. mayaybe it would have opened the door for a lot more of this kind of exploration from them and a lot more because there's a there's a There's a silliness. I mean, there's a Of course all their movies are silly, but there's there's a kind of like Chaotic this to this to this movie in particular because it's so unpredictable. Like you just don't know where they're going to go next. And there's so many tiny L the joke density is absolutely mind blowing. I noticed a joke recently that I'd never seen before, which is in the very beginning of the movie a messenger comes into the German uh generals and and he's he he hands a message to a general. But before he does so, he takes his helmet off and sort of puts it under his arm officially And it takes a second to realize it, but his chin strap is still on his head. So he's taken his helmet off, but he still has a chin strap on and this is fully background. this this character has no lines or anything But it's just such a Wonderful example of all the ways that they were just like really attacking every frame with discipline. likeike how do we how can we insert another joke into this Um, And again, like I said, there's sort of this chaotic unpredictability to that that's so fun. and I think it keeps you on the edge of your seat. As a comedy fan, you're just like, what's next? What's next? what's it going to be? and I don't think that that really came back in movie making until I mean, I think You know, there was another sort of wave with the scary movies. Right and they started to They started to become multiple I think the first one was a pretty dedicated scary screen. like pretty scream parody. And then the subsequent ones became like lots and lots of movies Right wrong about Well no, I always felt like the scary movie because they were I think Zucker was a consultant on that or part of that, you know, definitely had much more of a plot. and I think it's the reason why you loved Regina Hall and Anna Ferris because they actually were characters. And then you had these other movies that started to be like not another teen movie or these movies just a setup of everything, but it just felt like nothing Right And, you know, the one that I always think of that I feel like is so influenced by Like the Z sensibility is like, I'm gonna to get you suca. L the Keen and Iory Waynees movie, like, you know, because they're like parroting so much blackploitation and it was so just rich and dense with jokes and I love that these guys come from the point of view of jokes. and we talked about you know Mel Brooks here on the show a bunch of times How do you make a movie like this? And I think you have to create a movie like this in a writer's room? becausecause It is not just about telling a story it is about one upping each other and adding and you feel like that that's what you feel like that when you're saying like this battle of jokes. What they did was, you know, the studio obviously wants them to make airplane too And they go, well, we don't want to make airplane too because we we just did that. likeike you and I appreciate them understanding couldn't Make parity of a parody. So they want to move away from it. The studio does make airplane too. They're not involved with it. sure But what they start with is they said a document of five hundred jokes that they didn't have room for an airplane. And that was the basis for top secret. It was like, how do we get these five hundred jokes into a movie? And I love that that's, you know, oftentimes the starting point is, oh, here's the idea, but it's like Here are the jokes. How do we build love You know, so that's how love that wrote this Yeah And, you know, and that to me is really interesting because they really I think to your point wanted to show everybody not only can we do jokes, but we can do different types of jokes. and we should talk about the underwater fight scene because the underwater fight scene is conceptually Hilarious Yes is a bar fight underwater and so Now, when you're watching it, you're like, oh, this is wild that there's a full bar underwater then you're watching it from a technical point of view and you're like How did they do this? Yeah Be it is it is a full fist fight and we have, you know, everybody people are in it, but it is all underwater and it is technically I think one of the most impressive sequences I've ever seen in any comedy in the sense that It's it's our actors. It's not stumen doing A very hard thing. you know, yeah, it's it's and it ye, it's worth pointing out, they're deep underwater. like you can't see the surface of the water over their heads. No Like they're they're there I don't know. I don't know if they're all being fed with oxygen or what, but but I read somewhere that That whole sequence was done in basically like three to four second increments Um That also that that scene is an incredible example of joke heightening math that I was talking about right for where It starts with Um W Val Kilmer and the other actor whose name I don't know. the attractive the British guy Yeah Brish guy. Yeah. They're fighting on a truck And it's a conventional fight scene. The truck goes over a bridge and they fly off the truck into a river Now Okay, so then you start to see them punch each other underwater unny that's funny like the fight is continuing underwater And then they just gradually start to introduce additional elements. Like right, that's when you start to see Um Suddenly there's a stool, I think is the first prop that appears and he just grabs a stool and breaks it over the other guys. And and you're like, okay, that's funny. There was a stool underwater that they just and then they widen out and they reveal, o, now there's a bar. It's a saloon. It's a traditional Western saloon And And it just keeps going And then they reveal there's actually a table with a bunch of guys playing poker sitting in this underwater and they they recovering and and then my favorite joke that is at the very end after the fight has gone off the rails and a gun has been fired, a chandelier falls from the ceiling and we don't see the ceiling, right? So it's like right It's just another joke just coming in from the top and It's so impressive. Valkimber became a certified scuba diver after that and they were running out of air because they were actually laughing underwater like they were Oh my is like it is And it's it um It's also shot in a way that an old school bar fight would be. It's very very big swing right. And you know, in heightened kind of characters. like when the bartender pops up and breaks the bottle over the guy's head, it's like it is they nail it so perfectly and they don't have to do that. Like they could have just gone into a bar and done that. But I think to me They are trying to also play with the audience's expectations. There they are Tightening everything, but also taking you in all these different directions. That one other scene that I think people talk about in this film is the backward scene. The of a Swedish bookstore Y Yes. So you said this perfectly a minute ago. Like these are jokes that Kind of They're amazing because they're not necessarily funny They're just they're so conceptual and they're so creative and the execution is so committed that I think as an as a comedy fan watching this, you're just like You're not even necessarily laughing at it as much as you're just in awe of it. And and and yes, the the underwater bar fight and then the Swedish bookstore scene. which do you want to explain? Yeah, I mean how it works. Oh yeah. well so they at one point they say that we have to go to this bookstore to get a little clue and they go inside and Everything is in this like Garbled. Yeah, we'll actually play this clip every I'll play a clip here. And like, you know, the and everything is in this like kind of garbled language and as you're watching it, you know They're presumably speaking Swedish. then and all their movements are just kind of awkward and strange looking. And there's a few other physical jokes in there, like the magnifying glass and the giant eye. Um likeriters weary. But you and then the books are ye the book is flying off the shelf like at one point like he catches a book and he throws it back up on the shelf and it fits perfectly on the top Shel V like and as you're watching it the first time' like, wait what What's going on? because it does appear to be normal And what you realize is they shot this entire scene uh, you know, backwards uh, you know, so they and so they and they reverse the playing of it. So Pays again, playing out in like one shot so it feels very fluid.. feel great cudy Whish for Hot. Normal fl awome Alarm asall was caught Oh he you lat . And you're like this is a bizarre again, a bizarre choice that They are they're trying to top themselves in what they're doing. like there's no reason to do that besides like We can and this is such a funny way to do something. anyytime there's any exposition in this movie, they themselves in such major major ways I think This is exactly what I'm talking about where and I think it's really what What makes them transcendent comedy writers and Sts This is not an idea that is inherently funny Right Right? And yet, It fits so well. It's just a it's an idea that you see in the movie and you're like That' so cool. That's so insane that they did that. And it's it's almost like the Aacity of production of it is what's funny Well is the thing that you're so excited by as a fan. And I think that that's what helps this movie on a rewatch, right? Be you're looking for these things and makes them old And And I think that that's a lesson that probably so many people could learn when you're making a big comedy like this. It's like you have to just pack it with so much that it makes it worth revisiting and also like you're in on the joke now because the first time you watch it through It does work, you know, you get, like you said, the magnifying glass, like he has a magnifying glass up to his eye takes it down and his eye is actually distorted like that without the magnifying glass. And it's like, o, so you're getting those simple jokes I think when you get to go back and think about it, especially at a time where, you know peopleople would go back and watch a movie twice or three times. You know, you couldn't just rewind it. You were at the theater, you, o, we got to watch that scene again. How was that done? People weren't going online and figuring this stuff out. So I think it's also becomes a fun thing to bring your friends to or show to other people. I think that that's and you're right. It's not funny But it is Hilarious. Like it's like, the songs aren't funny. they are like, you know, the way that the girls are reacting to him doing his Elvis song. The Elvis song is really well done It's, you know, it's too fruitity and it's just people losing their minds, you know, or shake their rug or, shake the rug or the song there It It's actually a well executed song. It's not full of jokes. Yes. But then totally. behind him, like people are just swinging bodies like you have this like classic swing dancing and start to realize it becomes so violent and insane. And I'm I'm going to say something very controversial. sureure, which is that I I love Brooks, I wororship Yeah at the altar of Mel Brooks. and I love u, you know, Christopher Gest and all of those kinds of com those kinds of movies. And I love Eddie Murphy and I love Mike Myers and the Austin Powers movies I'm gonna say that this kind of movie is the hardest to do well of all of those kinds of comedy because Even when Melbrooks is at his best, you still can feel Mel Brooks kind of like elbowing you in the ribs. rightight? He's like kind of telling you this is funny and this is where to laugh and's it's a really fun ride and it's amazing. But what's incredible what's just just one notch next level about this kind of comedy is that they're never elbowing you They they're always everyone like you're just saying like it's all so straight and And no one is thirsty, right? No There's no sort of like like Um no one's overacting or trying to like you giggle by the the just craziness of their character. If you get it, you get it, right? And that I think that that's part of the fun of it, right? is that you have to like it's like a cool kid thing. likeike if you're you're on our side, you're on our side. If you miss entirely, that's on you, right? And it's Yeah. And I think that that that's an energy that is so pervasive, but I also think to your point you can get away with and again, we are both very big comedy fans. We have done comedy, but the We do comedy, but the This is about a level of perfection and I put this closer to and I don't this is going to be lofty to say, but like the precision that you would put into like a movie like Project Hail Mary on jokes. Yeah rightight? You're just saying like, because it's no scene is done until they're like five or six jokes in the frame and those jokes can't take away from the plot and you have to It is so hard to accomplish that. in most movies Here's two people. They're being really funny. I could, you know, moments in step brrothers. I'm like, this is the hardest I've ever laughed They're doing that and they're doing five other jokes in the same shot And I think that there's a thing. I don't know how you feel about this, but comomedy sometimes play it out in a onener you can see so much more stuff. It actually, I think allows the audience to get on board because're it actually gets a pace that you can't necessarily get cuts sometometimes will help punch a joke. Yes. But when you actually see playing out. It's so It's almost like a bigger magic trick. It's like a wner and an action movie. For sure. And and I mean most of Monty Python movies that Terry Gilliam directed. Yeah, the great comedy sequences are one shot. It's like a locked off camera, you know, it'll just be like A long bit of dialogue and performance Um, And you're right, those are Uh It's It's it's a kind of discipline and it and it really is it respects the material. because it's like We don't need we don't need any cinematic tricks to make this funny It's just good it's just gold. And you know, it's interesting because I think that what you are also hoping for. And I think the hardest thing when you're making a comedy is You know Not everybody's sense of humor is the same But I would argue that Mel Brooks and Zaz have the track record of being able to bridge the gap more than anyone else. rightight? Like that thing where, oh, the parents are loving it, the kids are loving it. That's why I watch this movie so much when I was a kid. My dad loved this movie.. I loveved this movie. I was watching it last night with my kid. He's laughing ystically you know, meeting the French resistance and everyone is like, his name is Dja vu. did I already meet you? Oh, this is weird Chocolate mousse. And you know, it's not enough like yeah, there are these like jokes in it where it's like, oh chocolate moose and you know, it's this bigger black man. But then when you cut him, he eats his own cigar, right? So it's like everything is this like okay we're not We're not just even allowing ourselves to be in this one level. We're going here here here And there's something really amazing about that like because I can watch something like Nathan for you you know, my parents and they're not going to get it necessarily as much as anything else My parents didn't get the office Really? Oh my go., I mean, this part's kind of a cultural thing. like Yeah as old southerners, they're like, this is an uncomfortable show. But I think to that kind of acting style Everyone in the office is just playing it real, right? Its not It's not chewing you with laughs. It's just like, oh, this is observed behavior and why the laugh track was important It's like that that's a joke Yeah, That's a joke. Yeah That's a joke And when you take it away and shows like ar restst of development, I mean, I remember talking to people and they were angry at arrested development. It's like, what what what am I watching? It's like, Oh no, it's hilarious. There's so many things happening here, but it's not ever calling out. actuallyually, in a weird way, I think arrested deevelopment probably also owes a little bit of you know, like a little bit to these guys because that's a show where a million things are happening in background shots and things like that and it's so fine tuned and everyone is playing it incredibly straight. Yeah But yeah, I like that and I just some I'm always amazed at what comedies can get everybody on the same page because it seems like it's getting s harder and harder to find something that can bridge the gap and be genuinely funny or allow it to be funny. I know that I'm sure you've gotten this too. You get notes on comedy. And it's the trickiest thing because you're getting notes from people And depending on where you you know, where they are They may not always get the joke and then they give you a note about the joke. I remember we did a sketch on Han Giant told the story a million times, but it's kind of the perfect encapsulation of it We were hot air balloon cops and we did police chases and hot air balloons. and obviously we'd always lose we always lose the person because we're not fast enough And one of our executives at MTV is like, yeah, but it doesn't make any sense You would never be able to catch them. Why would you use a hot airballoon? Oh my God. But that is funny. Oh, Conan has an amazing story about this how Um it was I think he was rehearsing his opening number for the Emmies Right. And the whole bit was that it was like a wind up to this giant Busby Berkeley you know, huge production with like a big set comes out and Conan's in a white tuxedo with white tap shoes and a top hat and everything and it's like the dancers are all taking their places and all this stuff and the music is swelling. And then some for some reason The there's some technical glitch R They can't and the joke is that they can't actually do the number. And so now Conan and they're sort of like it's dead quiet and Conan's like footsteps in the tap shoes is sort of this really funny echoy thing And they're so they're rehearsing this And somebody, u somebody either like a producer or something they're like We went to all this trouble to get all this production here. There's like a You know, there's a there's a tiger, there's all these things and what Can we just do some kind of musical number? or something. It just looks like you're saying. and I'm butchering that story, obviously, it's Conan's story. But it's that same thing where uh where It's the it's not the premise is not understood Right and I feel like I don't know if you've ever been in a situation where You know, I think a lot of the times You are on certain shows, maybe a director will come in or there'll be something and there'll be another voice in there and they'll push you to make to push The joke harder. Oh for sure. Yeah. And it's and it's a very delicate balance because what I've found is You know, someone says, oh, we want the scene to feel more dramatic or we want you to feel, you know, it's that's an easier note to deal with than like, no, no, I'm actually making a choice by not pushing And it's and it's and it's and when you the minute you tell somebody that you're not going to do it There, I find people are very upset because you're saying, oh, I'm not funny and everyone thinks that they're funny And it's it's a different vibe and it's it's hard to walk that line because you don't want to give You don't want to give anyone access or the option Yeah the option to use something, you don knowt, like it's that's that's such a funny predicament that I think comedians in particular struggle with But all actors are confronted with that. Sometimes it's like, you know, cry harder or push this hard or whatever even in dramatic scenes. I am now at the point where I will generally give Like if a director or a producer is like really asking for something and I can tell like They think it's a brilliant request. Right. I'll generally do it and might because I've just Tust that in the edit the crimin will rise to the top like or that the best version or that they'll see that that was actually a bad note and that the previous take the previous take was better or whatever I know and it's that it's a gamble. and know it is rightable because and by the way, James Spader on the office He would never You know, it was very, very common on the office to be like, okay, yeah, let's get on its feet. is it canan we just shoot the rehearsal and everyone's like, Yeahah, sure, let's shoot the rehearsal just in case we get something great And James, when he joined the cast, he would always say, no D't shoot rehears Oh and everyone was and I remember everyone was kind of like that's weird. and I eventually just pulled him aside and it was like, Hey, so what's up with that? you don't let us you don't let us shoot the rehearsals. I'm just curious like what u why that is that he goes because they'll use it And it's that exact Right It's this exact point, which is that he's like, I'm not ready. When I'm ready, I will give you I will I will give you the performance Yeah that I want to give you and that's what you can have in your cameras before that. I don't want you shooting on anything. I It's so it's really, I mean, as somebody who's been in it edit and I know you've been in there too. like you start to sneak around and look for stuff like, Oh I got like I've used moments where I've cut to a reaction shot of somebody listening to you know, something where the cameras were still rolling after a ticket ended' go great, we got that shot. We have that listening. right? So it becomes those little moments. Yeah Yeah. But it's hard. and I think that that's why you want to always work with people that you trust and it's and for the most part, you get it. We have Ive I haveve dealt with that mostly on shows where a new director has come in But luckily in television you have the backstep of the creators that are like, well, we are keeping the tone and you can kind of write it in I will say that there was one person who told Valk Kilmer throughout the entire movie that he was playing it wrong and it wasn't good. and that person was Cher who Val Kimmer was dating at the time. No way. kept on visiting Set and being like This is terrible that you you are in an awful movie. This is not working You This is going to wreck your career. So Cher was in his ear entire time not getting heartbreaking. getting the jokes. I love Val Kilmer and I love Cher and I love that they dated. And I also love here's this is a crazy little Easter egg in the movie is that u in the when you first go to the prison cell Um that where Valcilmer is being kept There is a headshot on the wall and it's you can't really see it. rightight. You can see that it's a that it's a woman. black hair but you can't really tell, but it is Cher. It's Cher's headshot. Cher's headshot is on the wall in the prison cell And I love that little detail, but oh, I didn't know that I didn't know that she was against the movie. She was against the movie Oh man Welcome The realms of peril and glory Explore the mechanically magical vistas of Vale Paranormal mysteries of Liminal London The cyberpunk chaos of Cyborg awed by our incredible guests from familiar shows like Ox Vventure and No Rolls Bar Search realalms of Pil and Gory to find out more On Big Lives, we take a single cultural icon. People like Jane Fonda, George Michael, littleittle Richard, and we pull apart the story behind the image. And we do this by digging through the BBC's vast archives, disiscovering forgotten interviews that change exactly how we see these giants of our culture. We're here for the messy, the brilliant, the human version of our heroes I'm Emanel Joi and Ki Wright, and this is Big Lives. Listen to Big Lives, wherever you get your podcasts. So I also talking about like another Beautiful like physical bit is that jail cell where he's trying to get out and he's trying to open up different So like little vents and stuff and he keeps on kind of flying out and watching that, I was watching it last night going, how did they do this? Did they elevate that stage and just because his head pops up out of the toilet? You know, there's no CGI here. They're doing all this stuff practically even the underwater sequence. L everything is done in camera for the most part, you know, I mean, like weve talked about the giant submarine. they this is what I'm talking about Bill So much these sets and it was not a big budget movie. It was like what eight million dollars. So like airplane was like three or four, yeah. Yeah. But they're building these incredible sets. I mean, the product the production designers that joke which I love. The productroion designers and the prop builders and the construction workers, like they all got the joke in such a great way and and committed to the reality of these things and that set is is phenomenal. Obviously they're cutting between, you know, where his heads pop in and out, but it is a locked off camera on a set where he's able to make those crazy entrances And the other the other example of of just an absurd amount of work going into the most ridiculous tiny background joke And this is one of my favorite jokes in the history of cinema. Oh, I love this. is they're sitting on the park bench having an intense conversation and in the background is a statue. in the deep background is a very large statue. O Pigeon Okay. it's kind of random, kind of a random like like, okay, rightight. But then all of a sudden human beings to fly down and land on the pigeon and Uurinate on The statue, right? because Why? I don't know why, just because they're inverting the idea that pigeons poop on people statues. Like which is So random and they built this huge statue and they put people in harnesses and lowered them down And these are the things that you can't get anymore. L no one would build that just for again, for aound joke. Right. And also like if you try to do that joke now Your producers would be like, yeah, we'll just see G the pigeon. And we'll see G the people coming down and pooping. And it's like That won't look funny What looks funny is how awkwardly these people are dangling from harnesses. Yeah and trying to pretend like they're peeing on a statue. and then like apripo of nothing almost undermining the joke in a weird way, the people fly away And keep in mind, this is all in the background of a scene people fly away and then Pigeon statue poops Like why that right What? It's a huge, it's like a twenty foot tall pigeon and it has a huge Like garbage bag sized poop come out of it And it's just priceless. I think the thing that I always get offended by is when people say stuff like, oh, what were you smoking when you did that one, right? Like Bob and David have talked about this a lot and That's That joke right there is a perfect example of they weren't coming up with that on the day Right? So they're writing that scene and they're going, okay, we need a giant pigeon, thenen we need to have people fly in on that pigeon. thenen we're going to have like there's so much production in this movie. Like you can say like, oh, maybe on a Jud movie or you know, in an Adam McKay movie, like, oh, they're improvising. and you know, Christopher Guess and they found this great little improv and that becomes something, but these are not improvised moments. Nothing in here is like by chance. And then I think also to your point makes it way more interesting right? because it is it's so It is is choreographed comedy in every single way and so many departments have to be working simultaneously to execute that. And I think that that's why they've gotten this reputation, you know, where Cstantly just lecturing. likeike we gott to do it like this because people are going to lean into the funny and do different things. Right. And the crew, all the production crew However however they got there, they all got the joke Like you can tell in the execution of of these props and of these sets and of the way the ways that the props operate and the sets kind of move and do what they need to do. like you can tell Everyone got the joke and I think that's a that's a testament to the direction of the movie also, which is to say like it's the director's job to communicate What's needed in a way that that department heads can understand and can capture. and then you have Also just It's one thing to write these jokes. It's another thing to direct them in a way that timing and the v the camera movements and the visuals Like you were talking about that wonderful joke that starts off as sort of a crude diagram in the dirt. And then as they widen out, you start to see, oh, oh, this is actually an elaborate diorama. Oh, this is an extremely elaborate diorama. Yeah. And it and they're just sort of it's, but they're in the middle of the woods. likeike how did this come out of nowhere? and then all of a sudden there's an electric train going through That's incredibleo Joke heightening But it's also execution at such a precise level and the reveal, the camera movements, the director of photographer in that moment was like getting the joke getting ye how this needs to be told and how what's when the laugh is going to come in the visual movement of this. And that's incredible. Like I mean it truly is magic. I will just callught one of my other favorite jokes, which is when they go to the French resistance and the door is open and that the top part of the door, it's like a little like po or like a face kind of pops out and you know, he is like, what's the password? And they close it. And when the door opens, you realize the man is very, very short. Right? Like like but he's very tall.ike it's like even like like nothing was left for chance. And I think that that level of discovery is so interesting I I'm excited that right now We're in a moment where we just had Naked gun with Liam Neeson, who I think did a great job and I thought that movie seemed to be rev, you know, reviewed well and people want to go see it and sppaceballs too is coming out And this new scary movie where Anna Feris and Regina Hall are coming back it's interesting that in this moment This might be the type of comedy that brings us back to the theater because it is It's fun to watch this with each other. It's fun to see and even hear people go, Ohh, did you see like you're almost whispering like pointing out stuff. It's like you're in this mode. It feels like I'm a big believer and I know you are too like it's great to see comedy with people in a theater. It makes the entire experience that much better, but it feels like this might be comedy that studios double down on for a little bit, which is so odd that Now so many years later we're going back to something that I think was never broken. We just got it out of style or lazily done. I think that that, you know, the not another teeen movies and no offense to those or or the multiple scary movies where all the creative people that were in the original ones were gone. just kind of everything just kind of dropped out and I feel like I want to go back to really talented to writer directors making this thing. It's it's it's exciting in a way. I I love everything you're saying and I I From your liifps to God's ears, I hope you're right and I applaud these movies and the studios and entities behind them And I hope that they crush and absolutely ure the audience again. and there's something else about These movies When a movie is when it's entire Reason for being is Silliness Just silliness. U there is an unbridled joy to that It is complepletely nonpartisan. Yeah. ye it's like not it has no connection to politics. I mean you can You can make a movie like this hf political commentary, but like doesn't need it. at its best, it is pure silliness and that is such a u a universal gathering point. It's something we can all L onto and together I'm a big believer all laugh at. And when we're laughing together, you know what We're not fighting. Well, and I also think this, peopleople don't want to feel dumb And I feel like smart comedy makes people feel dumb sometimes because they didn't get it or they or and other people are getting it. And what's kind of great about this and I think as we've been talking about this this entire time, what I've realized is everyvery level of joke that you want, you'll get in here. You want a Pac manan joke, you get a pac joke. You want like a tik tac toe joke happening during a shootout. you're getting you know, and then you're getting these letly. So you can kind of walk away going like my ten favorite jokes are these. You can walk away with ten different favorite jokes because the movie isn't just ten jokes.'s hundred jokes and you get to pick your favorite ones. And I feel like That is important too, like is in building a comedy, I think it's I'm always trying to like learn lessons from stuff like that and And I' like, yeah, this is just, it's hitting you on every level. So everyone's walking away with their their thing. Yeah. and no one's no one's in creating these movies and creating these jokes, no one's trying to think like How am I going like get the upper hand on this group of people or this way of thinking? No one' No one's trying to like snark about uh an ide you know, a political disposition or a or you know, some It's it's just how do we do something how do we upend our experience of reality in the most silly way to get deepest laughs. Well, now, I want to ask you something just to take a brief detour for a second as we wraping up here. mentioned your podcast Snafu. Now we on this show talk about great movies and I loved an episode that you did recently. You had John Batam and Matthew Brodrick on talking about like war games, right? Like this Oh yeah, that's actually from season one. Oh o was we replayed that recently, but yeah. So I remember I had found that and I was like, this is so interesting. I love the show and I got a chance to be on it and I talk about that episode that I was on because I felt like I learn stuff about history. It was so fun to have you on and I gott to have you back on, Paul. It was great U but I but if you're a fan of this show and you like this, I think you that's it's right if you go into I'm looking at right here. you go into Spotify, you can find it's not that far down, but the Matthew Broderick John Battman is really fun because it does just talk about I think it's a nice crossover for both of our audiences in a good way. So definitely check that out. Anything that you can tease coming up about Snafu that we could you can tell us about. We got the book out there as well, which I think is great. Yeah, than you. So yeah, the SnnaFu podcast just for people who are unfamiliar. it's essentially a history podcast, but I have fabulous guests on like Paul and and I basically walk them through an historical snnafu. like so some crazy incident accident or mishap from history. What did we talk about in ours? We talked about this flood that happened were building Johnstown flood course. Yeah, that was that was insane. and and yeah, that was it's so interest theseese are fascinating stories and we bring some levity to the to it and but with real, hopefully some real scholarship mixed in there so it's a compelling narrative You have great guests on the show Handler was on. We did the Hendenberurg disaster. you had Boieang on there Yang was just on. He was fantastic. We hadig Rory Scovill you know. Oh and and again, a movie that we talked about on this show. we talked about ET because obviously ET is a classic and you talk about one of my favorite things about the the ET Atari video game that they buried in the desert, right? Like because it was so bad, right? Like it was like the ye that Yeah. Was that? was that the Safari game that um The cartridges Yes the cartrides. Yes, ye. was like So but it's really just I would say jump in with whoever you like from Adam Scott to Jake Johnson, so many great people on the show. and There's so many fun topics. I am I am such a fan. I think it's a great way to kind of learn I'm a big fan of learning about history too. I was going to say the only other show that I've ever been able to kind of bring people to that kind of unites the old and young has been drunk history because drunk history has that thing where it's like, there's big comedy, but you're also learning and I feel like real real It's real history. Yeah. And what I love about this is that you get to you get to go away and, you know You get to listen to the show and then you walk away and you have a little story you could tell people as you you spend the weekend a dinner table conversation. Did you know about the Jonestown Flood the Yeah. Yeah get you get a highly entertaining podcast with some vegetables. Right. Yeah. And you get and you get to benefit from it in real life. Ed, it's a pleasure getting a chance to talk about top secret I'm so glad that we got to talk about this on this episode because I do feel like We have covered Nica gun, we have covered airplane here, but top secret to me is I think the height of the Zaz powers. I think it's the best category. And it's interesting because A lot of these people, you knowah Peter Cushing and Val Kilmer obviously are you know legends, but it is a bunch of great character actors. No one's popping out of this. It's just, I think it's cast the way that you probably would have cast a film in the nineteen fifties or sixties, just with a bunch of good faces. Yeah, I'm so happy. If you've not watched this film Definitely go check it Et Heles, We will be listening to Snfl. We'll be following you on social media. and thank you so much. Thank you, Paul. This was an absolute delight Ister working on him Bak They've tried everything. I want me to bring out the Le Roy Neiman paintings We cannot best violating the Geneva Convention. Thank you so much, Ed. and I hope you all enjoy his podcast, Snf. I know I do. Now we have some very big unspooled news. That's right We have brand new t shirts and merch. It's been a long time coming. and guess what The reason why it took so long is because I didn't want to just make an unspooled shirt. We wanted to make something that felt like it captured the show in a way that kind of embodied what we do, but not just be a quote from the show or an inside reference and what we've come up with is the first of the new unspooled line. This one is just in the Brazil font Spells out, Terry Gilliam I really like it. It looks great. And we also have another one that says My letterbox topop five is better than yours. You can check those out by going to our store on tepublic. com slash unspooled. You can also go to our website to get a direct link right there. And speaking of getting extra unspooled stuff, Are you subscribe to our YouTube channel It's YouTube. com at getet Unspooled. We are launching a brand new video series. It's not the podcast. It's something different and you should subscribe right now. It's free. it's easy. Jump on our substack. O substack is for you. It's longer conversations about all the movies that we love and it's completely free. Boy, boy, we're doing a lot of fun stuff. and guess what It's not stopping anytime soon because yes, Amy is away And next week, I continue to play with some of the best guests in the game. We are going to be talking to fan of a little nineteen ninety five film called Babyitters Club That's right. Rob Anderson is joining us next week. You know him as the New York Times bestestsellng author of gay science. and he's currently on his Are you Afraid of the nineties tour. He will be sitting down with me to dissect a movie that he feels is absolutely perfect. Now make sure you watch Baby Sitters Club, but if you feel like you don't want to, maybe our conversation might sway you anyway