Current Season Outlook and Title Predictions

This is a global production Formula one It's not the same as when I joined. You were part of that golden generation. Now I've come to Redborg. A I bad omen? Maxter Stapper. Do you believe him when heays's gonna walk away . What's the worst thing you ever screwed up in a race to speed. It's Will It's just Will. Welcome to up to speed. Don't worry, it's not actually me on my lonesome today because as it's Austrian Grand Prix Week, we thought we'd invite to the podcast somebody who knows only too well what it is to race at this track, to compete at the highest level and with it being Red Bull's home track, what it is to be part of one of the most successful teams in Formula One history. He is the author of life in the Pit lane co host of the Talking Bull podcast Ambassador for Red Bull Racing and of course, former Red Bull mechanic. Canam Nicholas, Wlcome to the show. thank you, Mate. What a lovely intro. I appreciate that a lot. How are you, Mate? I'm really good, man. I'm at home in my office. I've got the week off from the track this week U So that's quite nice for me to get some time at home. I see you're in another hotel room Another hotel you Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, always always hotels at five AM doing these. But you know how it is, mate, you know how it is. Talk to us about when you arrived at Red Bull Did you arrive there at a time where the success was already kind of happening, or were you very much part of that build up towards the success Well, it's kind of we. So I joined the beginning of twenty fifteen, right? So you could have like forgiven me for thinking, oh this is great. I'm going to go and win championships straight away. everything is going to be wonderful U and then you know, fifteen was twenty fifteen was one of our worst seasons in the sport, right? Like we didn't even get a bonus that year. And I was like, what have I done? I mean, you know, I've come from Maurussia, everything's collapsed there And now I've come to Redbull am I you know, I was like am my bad omen? likeike you know, something that's going to follow me around But you know, from that point on, it was very much like a building, you know, like a building process, you know, and all of those years and I say this every time I sort of talk about it, I spend years with Mercedes just kicking our ass Wek in, week out So good And that whole process, I think, you know, from then on all the way up to sort of twenty twenty one, that was like a building stretch Right? It was just learning and doing things better and it was it was even the things like R? Not off track for things that weren't necessarily, you know, you can only make the car so fast, you can only do this and that. There's only so many things that are within our control as the race team So that's when we started going after things like, you know, pit stop world records and, you know, consecutive bitit stop championships. We you know, you try and find the wins anywhere, but it was like a building, it was a building time How important was that when the success started to come that you'd kind of been through the trenches and you'd been through the difficult years? and kind of building that the relationships, but the kind of the strength to really maximize it in the end Yeah, I think like very much so on a personal level it's always important. L when you're with a group of people that have been through like the worst bits, you sort of, A, you appreciate The great years even more, but then also like you know the work that's done together. But I think, you know as a business, not just as a team, but as a business We saw, you know, Mercedes were doing things so well. That's why they were That's why they was such a tough team to beat. It wasn't just that The car was fast, it was fast. It wasn't just that Lewis and Valteri and Nico were all like brilliant, even though they were big, it was that outside of that. Mercedes do everything really, really well They're so well organized, like you know, all that down to their logistics and all of these things like this they're a really hard outfit to beat. So all of those years, those were things that we were learning, right? Those were things that we were improving to try and beat our competitors. And that's what all comes together to have a year like twenty twenty three You know, though that's what you have to do. You have to bring all of those things together. But for us as a team, it was amazing to sort of go through the rough and then get to All of that our glory Because F one teams always say they don't look at their competitors. They're always focused on themselves and improving their own processes and their own working practices. Is that a lie? Do you actually spend time looking at other teams and maybe not necessarily looking at like what do they do that we can take on board, but kind of looking at it and taking that as inspiration. Yeah, look, think I think you'd be silly to say that you never look at what your competitors are doing, right? Like if someone's doing something better than you, it doesn't mean necessarily that you're going to look at what they're doing and say, well, we're just going to do that. I think, especially, you know, Red Ball, we've kind of always tried to chart our own path and not sort of follow follow the sort of the general consensus on things, but it's It's one of things you've got to look at your competitors and say, well why are they better than us here And you might say, okay, well actually, yeah, they've got a good way of doing it. What if we did it this way? could even it could be even better, right? It's not necessarily looking at your competitors and saying, I'll just copy them because you know, you can't really beat people by copying them You have to find that next marginal gain on them But yeah, of course you look at you look at the other teams around you and what they're doing and how it works for them and what could work for you How do you Pick which team to go to and how like how does a team approach you And what do they promise you? Be You know, Mercedes people at the time right at the top And you'd think quite a difficult choice of which one of those you might want to go to similar today with like, you know, a McLaren. But there' certain things that Red Bull had as perks that came as a result of taking the job? Was it just the culture of the place that found itself very different to other other teams. Yeah, I mean, I think that that is true. but I look for me when I first joined It was a very different sport, right? And also like'll be I'll be completely honest, when Marishia collapsed, I applied at every single F one team. I wrote and I emailed them And it was Red Ball, you know, actually h it's not true. Ferrari were the first. you know, I flew out to Italy for the day and I interviewed there and I've got some old friends of Ferrari. Ultimately, I didn't really want to live in Italy at that point in my life. U And then it was Red Ball were the first team to give me the opportunity. like And I said this in my book. I said any team that had given me that opportunity, they, you know, they would have been I was in one hundred percent, right?. I think maybe just by sheer fortune I think the nature of Red Bull penny U booted me Right? in that like I I quite like a lack of structure. and whilst Rd Ball are structured, I think to the outsider, it looks just like sometimes I call it a comfortable chaos, right? That's where we live Right And and that's where we're comfortable when we're happy to chart a different path and that's really suited me as a personality. A in that I I'm very much someone who suits being left to just do things on my own and do them well. And that's sort of a staple of the Rd bull culture and that we don't really do like micrro mananagement things like that, right? Now, in terms of what teams promise you, it's kind of changed, like the nature of of the game has changed, right? in that when I joined the sport and I was looking for jobs in F one, there was there were no financial regulations Right? And the landscape for teams has kind of changed because when you think about when the regulations came into place in twenty twenty one, you've got like some of the biggest teams, Mercedes, Ferrari, Red Bull at the time in terms of the amount of people they employed. you don't want to make you don't want to make people redundant because we We don't want that for the sport or for the industry. But then what you find is that when those regulations came into place, because salaries are a part of it teeams who have smaller numbers. and at the time it was Aston, right? So at the time it was Aston who were building and they're poaching staff from all of the big teams left right and center as you they could because it's a competitive nature. But when you have a really small staff, what you can do is you can offer people big, you know, big pay rises and better money and then just sort of slimline your operation to keep the numbers down but offer, you know, real talent real money Yeah, obviously for the bigger teams, it's a lot more restrictive when you already employ twelve hundred, fifteen hundred people. you're you're you're a lot more contained in that manner. And we saource it in the same with Cadillac You know, Cadillac come in as a brand new build operation. Graham Louden and theyre, you know, they're taking this opportunity to say, well, look, if we're really clever, and we streamline our operation and have like no sort of redundancies anywhere within the business. We can poach some of the best talent by offering them bigger money. Yeah. Obviously, you had so many years of success at Red Bull. What was it that made the difference? Was it that feeling of harmony of being a part of the team? Was it how well regimented you were under someone like Jonathan Wheatley, who I know you know, his objective was always on the pit stops, get them under two seconds, you know, get it perfect, right? and then get it under two seconds. But he was he felt to me like such a a strong kind of general in that in that role. I think that in some ways, Jonathan like he was he was a great leader, right? And I always say look I got on with Jonathan really well. and I always say that haaving Jonathan in your corner 's like a really, really, you know, great tool to have at your disposal, right? It depending, doesn't matter what you're doing in the paddock. He's been in the paddock for so long his relationships throughout it are vast So he's always he's always great to having him as side but L Jonathan is one of the most competitive people I've ever met in my ye life. Oh yeah. right. And this is the thing, right? These are the personalities that you want in a winning team, right? and I'm the same, right? I always joke like I still race my daughter up the stairs to bed every night. And it's a proper race.ike she can cry because she didn't win, I don't care, man, we were racing. I don't care that you're seven. But this is my this is the nature of me is that I'm a competitor and this this was the nature of the personalities that we had within the team throughout those years, right in that we we drive each other forward even to the point where we can we're in the same team. We're still competing or another. I speak about this in pit stops of, you know, the corners of each corner of the car becoming like our own little crew. me and the two people that changing this wheel. We want to be the fastest wheel on the car, right So this is the nature of having these competitive personalities all around the team. When you started winning Obviously, you know, twenty one was was absolutely huge. and I know you've talked a lot about, you know, about Abu Dhabi in the end of that, but after such a massive slog in twenty one, when the success almost kind of became the norm How did that affect the way in which you had to go and approach weekends where before you had not saying you didn't have to work for it from twenty two twenty three But it became almost a kind of convey about victories. it Was it almost harder in those years um to keep that that that level This is some It's one of those things, right? So like for me In twenty twenty one, like I say it was one of the most like stressful seasons, right? It was the one where you took the work home with you And you never really switched off. you were stressed about it at home as well as when you got back to the track, you know, you know You know, you didn't really get the time to appreciate until the end, right? You know, the end, I remember sitting on the pit wall ten minutes on my own just trying to take it all in and what had happened and that was like the first time I felt like my shoulders actually just dropped for a moment and I had a moment of peace. and then in twenty twenty three you wrise it's a very different thing Firstly, the thing about twenty three is weren't expecting to have a season like that Right, so bear in mind, in twenty twenty two for the first half of twenty two, we were in a battle with Ferrari ight. So for all of us in the garage in our mind is that, you know, Ferrari dropped off towards the end of that season, but they're going to be back at the beginning of the season. It's probably going to be tighter than it was, right? So then after like four or five races In twenty twenty three, we're kind of like What's going on? What's going on What's going on here? right? And then it was And it's quite funny, you always get like there's like two sides of things, right? So like I thing for the mechanics, once we get to that point We're going to be a little bit in our minds. we're going to be like, yeah, we got this. no worries. We'll rock up to the track this week. Max will go out there,'ll smash it, whatever. nice and easy win. And then in the engineering office, they're always the opposite, right? They're always like pessimists Yeah. So you'll go you're like and I'd see I'd see Per and this was must be like, I don't know mayaybe halfway through the year, like maybe just after the August break And and I saw Pierre And I said to him, well, how are we looking this week? And it would be like the same thing and he'd be like, well, you know, it's all right, you know, I'm not sure. we have to but that's yeah. And then And then so when we got to Singapore and I said the same thing to him and he's like, well, you know, it's not all great. And I was like, oh no, he's just lying. And then we got like halfway through the weekend and I was like, oh no, he wasn't lying. He, Yeahah, this time, this time he was right. This one is amazing But I don't know, I think it it doesn't really change What you doing? I think in some ways twenty twenty three like it adds its own little pressure. in the You didn't want to be the person that made a mistake screw things up. I say this that like I said, I was talking about Monaco recently and I feel like there's a mechanic in Monaco There's very little you can do to help things go right But there's loads can not scw up. There's loads you can do to ruin it. and that's the kind of what you got to in twenty twenty three. I don't want to be the person that ruins this run Oh man, what's the worst thing you ever screwed up in a race Oh man. you know what? It's weird I had some screw ups early on in my career Um that I mostly got away with. like the one that I always remember and it was the one that I probably Learn from the most about me Double triple checking everything you do right So years ago, I was at a GP three race in Sa And Alex Simms was the driver. and he started the race somewhere around thirteenth Right? And he he battled his way up to third. And as he went to overtake for a second, he made a bit of contact with the other driver and it bent the track rod, but it bent it so severely there was no way he was going to be able to continue this race. not on a track like Spa where you're like dragging the wheels down the straight. So he was on his way back to the pit lane and the car ran out of fuel on its way back to the pit lane Right? And it was me, I'd fueled that car, right? As a number two mechanic, it's one of the many jobs that you do and I'd fueled that car. And I always remember it thinking to myself And afterwards we discovered that you know basically it had been under fueled because there was a problem with one of the fuel bowsers, but it's about, you know, double triple checking your work. And you know, I got away with that one because that car was retiring anyway. But I always remember thinking to myself like imagine. Oh man Thatt his pace, he was looking at trying to win this race with his pace. Could you imagine if a lap later he' like been leading this race And he was so fast, mate one he was so fast, he was w he was so fast. had no f. Exactly that, right? So they should probably thank you after the race. You made me look like a rockstar mate,act. So there was that one. that was really early on in my career. I learned from that And then the only to be fair, the only other like really severe mistakes I ever made were like pit stop ones. Right? And I say severe, but you know, the nature of pit stops and what you're trying to achieve. Like it takes something really small for it to go wrong, right? You know, and I spoke about it. and there's been plenty of pit stop ones, but I always say I only remember bad pit stops I never remember the good ones. So so that's just how it is. But yeah, no, thankfully, especially once I was in Formula onene, I feel like I'd learn all the lessons I needed to to just sort of make sure I wasn't making any silly errors. You were part of that great generation, that golden generation, and it always has to end, right Could you imagine that the team would have sort of disbanded. as rapidly as it has and that really you know, Okay, there are some some guys behind the scenes Um, you know, pedals and teer and you know Um and Max, obviously When you look at kind of top line management and you look at the faces, the real fac is, Jonathan, you know Adrian They've all gone I think one of the things I always like to remind people as well because people say this about the garage. goes, o, there's so many new fac in the garage And I get to to sort of like an outside viewer, yeah, these are new faces. but they're not really new faces to the garage. And what you have to remember is that those people that you see at the circuit They are such a tiny snapshot of for one teams. You know, you're sixty operational personnel in teams of like you know, with Red Ball powertrains, thing topping two thousand people now, right? So what and what I've got to see and actually the thing that I love about this is that I those faces that I see in the garage now, I've watched them come through sort of the Red Bull ranks on their way there. same way that I did and the same way that you know, the same way the Red Bull have this incredible sort of talent pipeline for drivers You know, we do exactly the same thing at the factory for mechanics, engineers, technicians, designers, you know, we've got a talon academy full of graduates and the whole point is for those people to get to go to where they want to go to eventually, right? So for me, one of the joys that I get as the person that now does my job building engines is Ollie And you know, Oie joined us as an apprentice And I got to train him. so it' can see him now doing that job it's great for me. And so whilst I get that to an outsider it looks like there's lots of new faces to the business actually. theseese are people that have been coming through the pathways that we've set out for them to be in those positions So those are the ones rising, but the ones at the top who many would argue were the architects of the success, they've gone. Is the culture at Red Bull strong enough to survive those kind of big departures. You know, didid that culture very much stem from the top or from your experience, is the culture at the place actually its own its own being. and so somebody can take over at the top and everything will remain relatively, you know unruffled. Well, I think a large part of the culture, obviously originally, you know, it came from Detric, it came from Austria, it came from Red Bull as a brand, right? And that you know and that is and that's It's unchangeable, right? The red Bll way of life and a way of doing things in the lifestyle that we sort of we sort of embrace as part of the brand, that doesn't really change. One thing about the culture at Red Bull that I always loved was And I always remember When we'd be getting ready to go on air on Sundays on F one TV And we were prepping and you guys would all come out of the garage and you just all have a moment And you just down the pitwall And it was never really captured on TV. Nobbody ever really, I think I've still got some photos that I need to send you at some point of of you all sitting there. But you as a team, you all just had this pre race routine of just taking a moment And I loved that and you were the only team that ever did that. Um, you know, and I thought that spoke so much about you guys as a unit And I tell you what, as an example, obviously, as you said, you know a lot of us are now off and doing different things and that team from that era is largely spread around the paddock But the team I was in Barcelona and I watched them on Sunday before the race. when I was out there about to do the pre race show with Hinch and I watched them and they still do it, you know, and everybody was out there w with our you know, our Sunday can of Red Bull before the race And that so this is what I mean about sort of the culture and the traditions and these things sort of living on That's great manan. That's great. Fan ones always had like quite a lad culture, right? You know, lads on tour, all of that kind of thing But then it changes, right? because we grow up and we get And we find our partners and we have families and we have kids. When was the point for you wear it it really changed and Um you know, being away started to bear Heavier and the joy of being at the track kind of no longer assuaged the joy that you had and how much you missed being at home. No I'll be honest with you, it wasn't necessarily that my joy of being at the track changed because that hasn't really changed I Yeah like You know, I do anything to sort of be involved with some racing at any point. but It's it was one of those things in that like I I knew once we had once we had Bella and Isabella was born. I recognized that my partner was making huge sacrifices for me to still be away And that was fine, right? That wasn't a problem in that Phoebe, you know, Poebe we met in the paddock. She understood that I had these goals. I wanted to win championships, right? And at the time we hadn't done that yet So Phobe was fine. She was amazing allowing me to continue go racing, all of these things. But then I probably got to like, you know, it was probably sometime at the end of twenty twenty three when, you know, I've won Cstructors's championships, drivers's championships Pit stop awwards. He were records. And I'd come home and I'd see like the strain that this was taking on Bella. because she needed her dad to be around and not gone for two, three weeks at a time. and I'd come home and it was like she was a completely different person Um and, you know, that's howes Phebes needed the opportunity to get back to like living more normally and having you know, some opportunity for her to go and do the things that she needed to do and work and spend time with friends because that's the other toll you forget. It's not just a toll it takes on you traveling It's the toll it takes on everyone else back home the're sort of picking up the pieces, right? Yeah. That's. So once I'd done all of those things, I kind of got into twenty twenty four and I was sort of like, being a little bit selfish here. likeike I've done all the things that I've done, you know, and especially, you know I knew that the book was being released in ' twenty five. I've been doing the social media, I've been doing things like podcasts and I had this idea of going and doing broadcasting So it's not that I fell out of love with racing, not at all It was that I kind of fell in love with doing other stuff, right? And that I wanted to sort of find that balance in life people look at twenty four races, but they don't realize that is everything around the periphery of the twenty four races and it's not just twenty four weeks away. It's not half a year away. You know, it is almost a constant from from Febr to December, it's pretty much a constant other than those three weeks in August when you get a shared moment with your family where you can be present and at home. Like it's bloody hard. But to have that recognition it's massive, mate, It's absolutely massive When we talk about watching things grow, you saw every of Max Verstppen's development at that team from his first win to his first worldorld Championship And then becoming one of you know, inarguably the greatest of his of his generation, the greatest of his generation Do you believe him when says he's gonna to walk away U It's an interesting question. L, I think Max is one of those people that He's the same guy Monday through Sunday and like he is honest, right? I think that's what a lot of us kind of appreciate Max about. you know is that he won't just do what someone tells him to say and this and that and the other. So I think for the most part, I say that I listen to what Max says in these things. And I't think it's one of those things and Mac saying I'll walk away. I think he's saying that, you know, I want this sport to be the formula one that that we love I love. Yeah. right that I love, that we love. you know, and I think him saying, look, you know And this has always been true, right? He is the only other driver that's allowed to go out there and race other motorsports at his leisure Right? f And he does that because he loves racing. So when he says, you know, there's a lot of racing that I love and also, you know, these are these are the things that I love about Formula one, but I need it to stay the Formula one that I love. I think he's just being honest. I totally agree with you, but you have you know, you have an insight into him Yeah that that we don't because you spent so much time with M it? Is that it? Is it just all about about the joy for him, just about the passion and just about racing. Yeah, that under look and I think I think, you know Odd for us in that we know so many other drivers. We they they have other passions outside of racing, this that and the other their hobbies and this that Max love That's his hobby, right? Yeah he does what he loves for a living Right. And that's that's not that's not going to change. So, you know, you also have to remember that it's, you know, and I talk a lot about the stress that these twenty four racing seasons take out on mechanics and the other people that travel with the team and it is huge. Yeah It's still twenty four and I know the drivers, they do travel in luxury and all these other things, but it is still they are compensated for well. They are compensated well actually. onene of the things that we say about compensation, right? And we talk about this now with the graueling seasons it's all very well saying that you can earn more money Money doesn't doesn't stop professional burnout for a start. No' you know, it's the same with mechanics. and you can pay them as much as you like, that won't prevent professional burnout But the other, you know, this is this is the thing like for for the drivers is still twenty four weeks away racing, but then all of their other commitments like Formula O, it's not the same as when I joined in, you know twenty twelve, twenty thirteen where, you know for for the most part, other than the sports solute superstars. the media duties for a lot in for a lot of the drivers were minimal you might do a couple of commercials a year for one of your big sponsors. like the demands on the drivers now from you know the media and commercial perspective are are very, very different, you know, they are It's really time consuming. And then when you couple that with the training, with the racing and all these other things There is a lot of other racing that will require less of you and you can have a lot of fun. And I say the same thing I say the same thing about mechanics, right? I think what a lot of people I've worked with have discovered is that you can go and earn pretty much the same money going and doing WEC or going over to the US and doing indie carar and having a six month season there's a lot of other great racing out there. One of the joys of the growth of Formula One for the rest of the motorsport world is that they've seen you know, they've seen growth that goes along with it. And then when Max goes and does twenty four hours and Nurbo Ring, you see the growth of that series and all of the others. So So I think that whereere were speaking my language Yeah, man. I think this is this is where we need to just make sure that what what we what we ask from the sport is the thing that A the best drivers in the world want. Right? you know, if you want the best drivers and the best personnel in the world come to come and race in Formula O, then you have to make it attractive. Love it. Right, we'll be back, but still to come, we're going to get Kam's thoughts on this season, Lewis Hamilton's Revival and of course We will preview this weekend's race in Austria. We of course want to hear from you as we always do. so get in touch at up to speed showh on our Socials and do subscribe on YouTube. Thisest july fourth at Lowe's, get up to forty five percent off select major appliances. Plus, save eighty dollars on a select Charboyal Performance Series Gas Grill. Now two hundred ninety nine dollars. Our best lineup is here at Lowe's. Lowe's, We help you save Valid through seven eight while supplies last, selection varies by location. Sil Lows. com for more details. Visit your nearby Lowe's on Tonnell Avenue in North Berggin. Before we get on to talking about this year Um, well I think what were you proudest of? notot necessarily from From the Red Bull Ye years, I guess from from everything that you've done on the team side,'s the what's the one thing that you take away from it that you look back and go P'enty proud of that, actually U Oh man, that is a That is a That's a tough question. I guess I gota I guess look, I think I I was always like a micro goal setter Right you know, so for me at first it was just that I wanted to work in Formula onene and say that I'd done it. And then it was that I wanted to be on a pit crew. Then it was that I wanted to be on the best pit crew, right? And those little micro goals just grew and grew. So I'm proud of like the fact that I achieved so many of those you know, the one for me was actually and we always talk about twenty twenty three season. actually twenty twenty two was probably the one that meant more to me because that was my first constructors' championship, right? That was the first Yeah. Yeah Sol actually that was that was that was the one that probably like means more to me, regardless of all the things we did in twenty three. I think if I had to say though, the thing that I'm most proud of is probably not. Probably not racing related. I I get the pleasure now having done so much about sort of careers in Formula One and trying to engage with people who sort of felt the sport wasn't necessarily for them Um and all of the work that I've done around that is probably why I'm most proud of. And I had I had u I had a guy come up to me Two people come up to me from another team at the end of twenty twenty four And caught me in the paddock and said, Ohh look, Cal, we wanted to introduce ourselves and say hello, you know, you were a big part of why we aspired to go and work in Formula O. And I that's great, man. And I think that is probably the stuff that I'm sort of most proud of. That's beautiful, man Very cool, veryer cool. Right, Austria this weekend. Was it a fun one for you guys to do that race? Was it big pressure wereere you kind of welcomed with open arms and free ladater hose and when you arrived at your hotel? how How was a? I mean, it's I guess it's quite nice when you when you're in Austria and people in the town it's not the biggest town, right? as you know. So like when you do go out to like little bars and restaurants and people recognize you and you might you know enjoy the odd free beer, that was always great. But of in terms of like the atmosphere is great in Austria Like especially there were always these the moments on the grid just before sort of you leave the cars for the formation lap and there's sort of two places where you It really gets me. Austria is one of them, Zanvorort's the other I like the way they get the crowd going, like sometimes you get goosebumps on the grid. So Austria is always really nice. I think it's also I like the place in it's the kind of place where you can have like very different weeks if you choose to U like I love golf courses. in Austria. the golfs It's beautiful, aren't they? Oh my go. so beautiful. and honestly like so affordable. Yeah yeah and at the same time, you know, you can also have like a if you want, you can go to the campsites outside the circuit and have a pretty wild night if you fancy it. So provide you with everything Austriaia It's always good What is Max? What is Max like out of the car? Like how does he manage to just affect This place Yeah, look is get, I like it I feel like as a track, there have been years where we've gone to Austria sort of being like, o maybe this isn't going to work for us here. this kind of track wouldn't suit our car. And then each time you're like, oh actually Actually, it really, really does. And I feel like I had this year on year that we'd go back there the next year and I'd be like, Ohh I'm not sure about this one. And then I'll be like, Ohh no, I've just forgotten. I don't know what it is, Mate I' I think to a certain extent, maybe it's just the way that he prefers a car to be designed when it's quite pointy anyway that he can get stuck into a corner and then get get it out of there and hustle it out of there U I I think maybe that just suits him a little bit anyway m I think the home support doesn't doesn't hurt at all. I think you know, when you go there, you're in a good mood, the fans are there cheering you on. I think that has probably has an effect anyway. you know, it's a bit like a home football match, right? The home advantage is a statistical you know, phenomenon it's not it's not just placebo is there in the numbers for lots of sport teams. So so maybe it's partly that. Yeah, you know it just becomes that sort of home advantage thing as well but yeah, we like Austria It's a good one. I want to look back very quickly to Barcelona Um, And I want to look at Nico Holkenberg's retirement if I can. have you have you ever experienced Anything like that. We a stone tpe pulls the O ring out, sets off the fire extinguisher and kills the electroics Like honestly,s like it's like another one of those records that Nico really wouldn't have wanted, which has got to be most unusual retirement ever. And then to see it happen Again, in forormula E It's L I mean, basically what we've got is we've got another one coming because these things come in threes, right? So we've got another one coming somewhere. But yeah, I have never ever heard of that before. I've heard of plenty of people polishing a car and accidentally pulling them. in the garage and things like that. But you know, I've never I've never I've never seen that happen on track. That is absolutely wild. In fact, I remember once it happened in the garage building the car on a Wednesday. when the electrician was in the competence. Yeah yeah, he was fitting the fire extinguisher at the time, but basically while he was fitting it, he didn't realize that the switch was already pulled out. So he'd plummed it all in and then as soon as he plugged it into the loom, it just went offwhere That's glorious. ye, I've never I've never seen it happen on track Man, that's crazy. That is crazy. Obviously big new regulations this year How do you as a team respond to, you know, such a massive change. Do you get very used to your processes within one set of regulations and then when it changes, it's almost like, you know, you need a new guidebook Yeah, a little bit. I think one of the things that makes race teams good is their routine Right? So your season starts, you know you get back to work hopefully as late as mid January if you're really, really lucky. If you're lucky. If you're really, really lucky, you go back in mid Jane and you know, as a technician, your first job is to sort of collate all the drawings that you'll need for the car this year rebels, you know, historically those drawings are out as late as possible to give the design office as much time as they possibly can So sort of get back in Jan, collate all your drawings and then you're straight into sort of what will be a dyno build for me always as engines. It's one of the first builds you do because of dyo work that needs doing. so you're sort of straight into that. But then yeah, what you do throughout a season prere season testing is sort of your time to set your routine in terms of the way that you're going to run this car and sort of in between sessions and how you're going to attack maintenance and servicing and logistics is such a huge part of the sport now. And then when you go for a big set of regulation changes car will be dramatically different. There won't be a lot of carryover parts. So normally year on year in Formula on, I sort of You know, from twenty fifteen, sixteen all the way up to twenty twenty one There a lot of those parts share carryover parts, parts that from year to year can be reused. And you know, you'd look at an R an RB sixteen B And there would be parts in there bolts, fasteners, bracketry that will say I'll be eleven Right? And you still use that particular part. Now when you have a big regulation change, that then changes. So you have so many more new parts on a car And all of those obviously need attention and planning for servicing and allocations and all of this stuff. So it is a big change for teams and you kind of get well, basically you get pre season testing, obviously. They had an extra they had an extra week in Barcelona as a shakedown but that is the time that you need to Yeah, yeah. But who's impressed you this year May I think you know what? I think I think VCarb have impressed me as a team. I think Harvid's taking everything like within his stride and what a like what a star Like what a star. I was on a little trip a little while ago. I was in Mumbai for a few days and honestly he's going to be a hero in India as well. likeike every piece of media I went to do everyone wanted to talk about RVid and ye I think, you know, he's he's come to the sport fair amount of pressure and he seems have takingen it in his stride and I think you have to give VCAR a little bit of credit for that. I think you know, I think Peter Bayer and Alan Permain they've been quite good at letting the drivers sort of focus on what they need to. And regardless of the fact that you look at VCb as the team that has a lot of fun, does a lot of social media, f interaction probably does more of that kind of stuff than anyone in the paddock and yet the drivers have managed to sort of soak that all in and they've had a really good start to the season. And I remember seeing Peter before our on our sort of enforced break where we cancellled a couple of races. And I saw Peter during that break and I said, Oh, you know how are you feeling about this time away? And he said, actually, you know, we started the season with really good momentum and we would have we wanted to carry it on. So VCAb have impressed me a fair bit this year. U actually I think Alpine have had a decent start Right? And and I said this I've said this about aline before in the They Traditionally, I don't think they've been great as a team at developing a car through the year So they needed to have the they needed to have a decent start. and I think they've had they've had a decent start. So there's been a few, I think You know, I think I think The obvious thing that I've been impressed with so far in twenty six has to be ball forord power trains, man, because L yeah. I'm not going. Four years, right? And literally four years ago, mate, when we announced this project, it was literally a gravel car park Yeah there were porter cabins and temporary toilets. and stuff like that, you know, And four years later to be in this conversation where the FIA are apparently saying that you've got the best engine in the paddoock is is It's almost like hard to explain what that kind of means, right? You know, I remember speaking to some of them Ben Hodgkinson and a few others at the end of last year. and asking them, you know, how's it going? And they had this quiet confidence then Right? that they'd be in a decent place, right? And you know, because I remember when this was announced and I've got so many people's tweets saved of oh, I can't wait to see this blow up every week and this and now the other they're going to be nowhere U so it's been quite satisfying to see him do it, but you know, like it's honestly It's an amazing project to have watched Gown and for them to be in this position in the first season. I think it's super impressive Yeah. That's incredible. Absolutely incredible. Mate, who's your who's your tip for the title? Um, o go, that is do you know what It's a difficult question I think O Yeah I feel like it was an easier question before Barcelona I feel like it's Certainly Lewis has made it a more difficult question to answer Right? give him a sniff and you know what I mean This is the thing, right? You give him an opportunity History shows that he is one of those drivers that will find, you know, much like Max He is one of those drivers that will find every last bit to make something that is possible happen U So I think he's definitely in the conversation. I think if I'm if I'm going to play safe money I think Kimmy will hold out and Kimmy will win the championship What about you though, What's who are you calling Um I think him he just looks so good. I think he looks so good. The Mercedes looks great and no one was expecting them to be able to improve their engine under ADUO and the fact that they've got that and can improve something which already looked like it was the class of the field is I think terrifying for everybody else, really terrifying U, but You know, look Timmy. already has the measure of George and it's year two for him. And I think I think if it comes down to it It's if it's going to be a Mercedes dri, it's going to be Kimm. Yeah. I think I think that was the thing for me like, you know, we talk about Kimmy's like misfortune with the DNF in Barcelona. in in his mind, Kimy still beat George. Yeah.. didn And that's why George looked pissed after the race Yeah because he knew he got he got bested U Anyway. We've got a great fight on, so I'm excited for the rest of the year, mate. Thankk you so much for being on the show. We appreciate it, buddy. It'sure All that you do. and just so pleased for you, so pleased with how well it's going, mate. your personality always going to lend itself to Milia. so delighted to see you making such a success of it buddy