Wrap up and final sign off

From Relay, this is Upgrade Episode 6 18. Today's show is brought to you by Fitbod , Delete Me, and Mercury Weather. My name is Mike Hurley and I'm joined by Jason Snell. Hi, Jason Snell. Mike, it's June. It's June. That happened. It's June. It's June. Huge month. Yes. Huge, huge month. Huge month.. Huge Huge month for us. You probably know what we're talking about. We will get to it. But nothing can stop the flow of time on this show. It is time for a snow talk question. Cameron wrote I have to stop you there just to say nothing can stop the flow of time literally anywhere. I guess a black hole, like extreme speed. I I guess okay. And that's not good. You can't stop the flow of time. You can slow it down, but you cannot ever stop it. You can only hope to contain it. Cameron , I don't think. Okay, this is my this is my take here, which is I don't think any kind of video package or montage at Apple is going to be focused on people. I think it's going to be focused on products. And so you might see Steve jobs in such a montage, maybe. But I don't think I don't think that's the point of it. I think the point of it is gonna be would be the products more than it would be anything else. Yeah. Because I think that that's and and actually beyond that, I would say it would be the the people using them. It would be like the customers. Um that's the kind of story Apple likes to tell. Not the uh not I think that's too self-centered for Apple's marketing to to go into that, like uh like a Doctor Who montage that shows the many CEOs of regenerating into one another. I don't think that's gonna happen. I picked this question for two reasons though. Like I didn't think they would do this particular thing, but there were there were a couple of things that I wanted to get your thoughts on one, if they will do any Apple of fifty thing as part of this, I feel like that's done. Like I I don't know that. But then it was also like just this thought of like no one mentions the CEOs in the middle. Like they just never get mentioned. Like people talk about Steve Jobs, they talk about Tim Cook. The whole parade of people in the middle, it just never mentioned when like talking about the case. Well the start, right? It's it's like the start. It's it's all the others that came before Steve are kind of like prehistory at this point. Yeah. So that's right. That's right. Somebody somebody's going to need to talk about those CEOs and explain who they were, but um it's not going to be Apple's marketing at WWDC, I'll tell you that. But we might do it. If you would like to send in a question of your own, please go to upgradefeedback.com and send in your own Snell Talk question. We've danced around it enough. Jason Snell. What are we up to over here, me and you? Well, okay, so if you didn't if you're not an upgrade plus subscriber, you didn't hear our post show, you may have seen us on social media last week talking about this. If you're just hearing about it now, let me frame it to you this way. Mike and I are doing a new podcast. Not trying to do. We are doing a new podcast called Designed in California, which is based on our Apple at 50 episode , where we told the story of the origins of Apple. We're going to do uh a year of it about all sorts of stuff across all 50 years of Apple history. And I can say we are going to do it because we launched a Kickstarter about two hours ago as we were recording this. It funded before we went on the air. So we're doing it. It's happening. Good news is there are lots of stretch goals. We have lots of plans, but we didn't wanna we didn't wanna set the bar so high that we couldn't cross it, and we wanna find out where that bar is with everybody else who's supporting it, and that will determine what we do. Our next goal is to hit 60,000, at which point we'll do 50 episodes over the course of a year. 50 seems about right. It's basically one a week. Take Christmas and New Year's off or something like that. And and and then after that, we've got all sorts of ideas for other things that we could do. There's a document about other things we could do to stretch it further. If we've got more money, we have more capabilities to do more work to create even more around it. So uh what it's gonna be is these episodes are going to be 30 to 45 minutes in length. They're gonna be scripted by me. I'm gonna do a load of research. It's it's like the rest is history, our one of our favorite podcasts. You know, uh what I always say about that is I don't really want to read the eight hundred page book in small print where uh a historian explains everything that happened in a particular battle or whatever in history. What I want is Tom Holland or Dominic Sandbrook, these expert historians, to read that book and maybe a few other books, and then kind of tell the story as they reconcile it across all of those uh all those books. That's a little bit of what it's gonna be, is I have a I have a bookshelf full of Apple Books and I have a DevonThink database full of uh searchable text from Apple Books and I've got all the magazines. And then obviously from 1994 forward I've got my personal experience covering App le, which by my math is roughly two-thirds of the history of Apple. Um but the first third, there are also lots and lots of books, there's magazines, there's oral history stuff. But I went to the computer history museum last week for the Steve Jobs and Exile panel, which was amazing and it just reminded me how much history is out there. So there's lots of opportunity to tell stories. We've got we've got so many ideas. We've got like three years of material sitting in a in a notion f ile of things we could cover. So it'll be really exciting to get started. The more support we get, the more we're going to be able to do. I think it's going to be a lot of fun. And if you're if the 50th episode of upgrade is not enough, we're also going to show you what the podcast is going to be because every week this month on Thursdays, the upgrade normally releases on uh on Monday afterno ons my time. Yep. On Thursdays, we're going to release every week this month an episode of Design in California in the upgrade feed. Yep. So you're going to be able to hear us continue the story we told on Apple's fiftieth birthday on uh in the beginning of April. We're going to take that story slightly further. It turns out a lot a lot is going on in 1976 and early 1977, a whole lot, but we're gonna take that story further with four episodes that will drop weekly on Thursdays in the upgrade feed. It's not a permanent feature. It is more like during this Kickstarter campaign, we want a place to show what we're gonna do so people can get a sense before they back us uh of what this project is gonna be like. So that that's the other we're pulling out all the stops here, everybody. So that's that's the idea designing California and it's happening because minutes before we started today, um, we got over the first goal. So uh as Mike said to me, get get to work, buddy. Yep. This is just you know, now now we know this project is a thing, and now it's about how much of it we 'll do. Basically after we recorded our uh fiftieth anniversary episode, the origin uh of Apple episode, we were both just we fell in love with making a show like this. Like that that episode was supposed to be like thirty minutes of of an episode is what that story was supposed to be. And we did a hundred minutes. Um and then from there it was just like what is it going to take to be able to produce something like this? And what we want to the reason we turned to Kickstarter is if we're gonna do this, we want to do it the best way we possibly can. And knowing that you know we're able to to put the time aside to produce this show at the level that we need to really helps us make that a real a reality. Like if we just launch this show into the world, we would have no idea if people want it and then we'd have to slowly start to build an audience, build advertising, build members. This way, with the Kickstarter campaign, which is at designed.fm, you are essentially pr becoming a member in advance. We are pre selling memberships. Yeah, exactly. And that gives us the confidence because I I did the math because I did that episode, and this story goes back a long way. Yep. Um you wrote about it at the enthusiast, your blog that you have, which is I've been working on an Apple history project uh as a potential follow up to actually twenty max or twenty twenty since last year. And I wrote uh whole script for essentially two episodes uh on a totally different subject, and then Jeopardy called and I just set it aside. And then as we were running up to the 50th, I thought, oh, I should take that concept and do a special episode of upgrade. What I got out of that was how much time it takes to do that work and to build the research corpus and to get better at at at pulling it all together. I'm sure I'll be more efficient over time, but um that allowed me to kind of set a bar and and the fact was it was it was gonna be a a heavy lift for us to do all the work that would go into this entirely speculatively. That's why we chose Kickstarter is it was just gonna be a lot of work and that's scary to do when you have no listeners and no support until you until you earn it. And so we said, look, we've got a track record. We've shown you what what we can do. We're going to continue this month to show you what we can do. And getting that support in advance with essentially, yeah, pre-sold memberships for the first year allows us to know that that we're not we're not gonna put in enormous amounts of work and then at the end of the year think, uh oh, nobody wanted it yeah why did we do all that work yeah like we we really wanted to find out if people liked this idea as much as we did it felt to me like something that deserves to exist but you've got to have interest in it to be able to make it. Um so if you back the Kickstarter campaign um at the founding producer level and above, we have like a like a twenty dollar level of just supporter if you just wanna like throw some money, but you don't want to go the whole way. Because there will be a free version with ads that'll release weekends. This will be a regular relay podcast. It's a relay podcast, yeah. That will launch once the once you know, once we delivered a campaign, we will launch a show. There'll be a free version of the show. That show will have ads in it eventually, uh, hopefully as it builds a listenership. And you will get those episodes essentially weekly. So when we have a, you know, if we're doing 30 episodes, we'll take some breaks. If we're doing fifty, it will be a weekly show. But if you are a member, you will get all of the episodes of a specific topic at once. The four episodes we're gonna release in June. Yeah. Um if you know for, members, the way that would have worked is instead of them being re-released weekly, you just get all four episodes in your feed. This is what the rest is history does, and it's it's a delightful moment when you can sit down and realize you you suddenly have six episodes about some juicy topic in your feed and and uh everybody else is sort of like wait till next week for the next one and what and you get it you get the whole story up front, which I think is pretty cool and no ads. No ads. So so that's all that's all part of the deal. And we're also we also have some tiers that have some merge items. So we're going to produce an enamel pin and we're going to produce a signed poster print of the artwork, um, of the show artwork. We're also still working on these things. I'll get to that in a moment. So we'll show those as the campaign goes on. But you can back to get those as well. You can back at a level which is called um full producer where we will read your name on a show as helping make that show that episode a possibility and like that season. Um and also if you wanna be a sponsor of the show, if you wanna be one of our first sponsors, we have a sponsor tier as well. Um so you know that we've got that coming. There's so much. This is what so we're gonna be talking about this all month, right? That that's because there's so many things that will be going on. But saying about the artwork, it's so interesting. Like we've launched this project to the world and it's maybe the most I've ever done for a show before we've told people about it. But we're also we don't have the least final Yeah, the key yeah because it's Kickstarter. Yes. So so yeah, you you said to me, like I feel I'm prepared, but but because this is Kickstarter, we're doing a bunch of things out of order. Like on one level, we have a content plan for more than a year, and I've written a bunch of episodes. I had to stop writing episodes because I thought I Jason, you cannot do more work on this until it funds. We've recorded episodes. We've recorded six episodes essentially of the show already um as as part of our t our test here. But because it's Kickstarter, uh the campaign runs through June. We will close it out on July 1st in the morning. So we there will be four episodes of upgrade where we talk about it a little bit at least. Well, that's the when the campaign endss, but there' a gap before you actually have to deliver. And while we're we're planning on starting to deliver this not too far after it ends, um, the fact is, Mike and I have done enough podcasts now that we feel like the moment like today, the moment we announce this to the world, we should have every single thing locked down because you would release your first episode. And that's not what we're doing. And so, like, we are working with an illustrator to do original artwork that will be the main show art and will also be what you see in that uh signed poster tier where we're gonna get really nice prints on really nice paper. Mike's gonna sign it, I'm gonna sign it, and then you're gonna get that it's gonna be pretty cool. We're working with an illustrator on that, but he just sent me sketches the other day, right? Like it's not done yet. We're working on a theme song. Haven't heard it yet, but that's in process. We're all this stuff is like being worked on , but it is a little bit weird for us because we are we try to be very professional and a little bit control freaks about this and like we want to do check all the boxes and it is very weird because not all the boxes are checked, because that's the point of Kickstarter is you you know don,'t start checking boxes until you know that the project's gonna happen. Uh which it is Mike, so let's start checking those boxes. I mean yes, but it is also funny because like I've spent hours looking at shipping and taxes. So it's like there's been many hours of work that have gone into this project, but they're none of the things that we normally do. It's very strange. So like uh you're people are gonna ask us questions about this and we invite them on social media in the feedback form . There's a couple of things I think maybe we should talk about. Why is this a new show? Why is this not part of Upgrade Plus? We think this is something that should stand on its own. Um, we want it to be its own thing. Uh one of the things that you've mentioned a lot and you speak about it in the video too is this is not like and will not be like other tech podcasts that you listen to. And there are people that don't really want a show like upgrade if she's just we're shocking news. I I know it's shockers. Well well two things. Some people don't want a weekly Apple news show at the level of detail that that we provide and that other people provide. So I hope that there are people out there like, yeah, tech podcast. I can like we we also know for a fact, this is one reason, by the way, everybody that we're doing this in June, is we know that our most listened to episode of the of the year is next week's. Next week, yeah. Is the WWDC post episode and then maybe the iPhone episode after that. But we know that. We know that people listen sometimes or watch the YouTube video sometimes because they care about like that news, but they don't want it week to week. I'd love to capture those people and have them say, oh, this sounds interesting to me. This is more interesting than uh than 90 minutes of news every week. Also, I I know that there are a lot of people out there who are listening to upgrades sometimes, but they're also listening to Connected. They're listening to ATP. They're listening to the talk show. They're listening to all sorts of podcasts. And um it may be a lot. So they may not they may not listen to upgrade every week. Or they may have said, you know, ATP is so long that I listen to up to the talk show first the talk show is so long that I sometimes get to ATP and then I but then I can't get to upgrade or connected or whatever. So we think that there's an audience beyond just upgrade. So we didn't want to make it just sort of like upgrade part two. And also I think technically, how do you how do you get to the point where um you can right again, th that we we can can fund the amount of work it's gonna be. So it is a separate project, but we are making available um some you know, some thank yous to the people who are existing members and we'll get into that in upgrade plus. Yeah. Yeah. If you're if you s if you're a member then and wait around for that uh at the end of the show. Yeah, I'm I'm blown away by this. Uh I feel like I was really prepared uh for selling this Kickstarter and now I'm not as prepared now because it's funded and also we obviously still want you to go back it. Uh design.fm is running all month. Uh but I'm I'm also just blown away because I you know, we we felt confident that people would want this and that we could make it happen. You never know , but we felt like this is cool. I think people will like it. Um I have been absolutely blown away by the support. Like there's something I talk about in in my blog post, but I have not launched a new podcast for like five years or something like that. Which in the in the prior five to ten years of my career, that is a ridiculous thing to imagine. I was launching one and one of these things a year. So many. You could stop him. He's launching too many. I just couldn't. But he just stopped. Over time there's just like a bunch of reasons why it felt like w I shouldn't do that. But this one I I fell in love with the idea and I I couldn't stop myself from thinking about it. And and it has occupied my mind constantly for the last ten weeks or so that since we since we started working on this. Um I am absolutely thrilled and honored to be able to do this show with you, Jason. Um I you've done such an incredible job with what we've done so far and I'm so proud of what we're producing together and I'm so excited that people are gonna get this because you're in for a treat and you're gonna see, like throughout the month, you're gonna get an episode every Thursday . They tell a great story as you go through. I think when you listen to them, you'll realize why you would like to get them all at once. And you will if you like the Kickstarter campaign, instead of waiting for these things weekly, because they're there's just a great story that and we have so many great stories. We have some extra things that we're gonna talk about during the campaign that we'll we have we've recorded some other episodes, but we won't spoil those for now. Um so yeah, go to design.fm , please take a look, back the campaign. We will make it worth your while. Like I promise you of that. Like we're gonna work so hard on this to make it something that you will see a new episode and you will immediately put it to the top of your feed. That's what we're aiming for. That's it. That's what we're trying. Should we should we like do a draft? Should we like do a sh do an episode of upgrade? Should we do it? I mean we should do that probably. That's what the people are here for. Right? Is that what they're here for? I hope so. I hope so. This episode is brought to you by our friends at Fitbod. If you're looking to change your fitness level, getting started can be tough. That's why I want to tell you about Fitbod. Is it it is an easy and affordable way to build a fitness plan that is made for you. Because everybody has their own path to personal fitness. That is why Fitbod uses data to make sure they customize things to suit you perfectly. It will adapt as you improve so, every workout is challenging, pushing you to make the progress that you want. 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I really appreciate these in the app because when I'm learning a new exercise, which I get shown often and I'll tell you why in a second, I feel confident that I'm going to learn it the right way because they're showing me how to do it along with their great instructions. Because Fitbud tracks your muscle fatigue and recovery, it will give you a well-balanced workout routine. So you're going to get new exercises, new rep schemes, new circuits. You're also not going to get bored because there's all this new stuff. You can stay informed that their progress tracking charts, weekly reports, and sharing cards. You can keep track of your achievements and personal bests and share them for friends and family. And it integrates with your Apple Watch and Wear Smart Watch. Personalized training of this quality can be expensive, but Fitbard is just fifteen ninety-nine a month or ninety-five ninety-nine a year, but you can get twenty-five percent off your membership by signing up today at fitbod.me slash upgrade. So go now and get your customized fitness plan at fit bod.me slash upgrade. Once again, that is fitbod.me slash upgrade for your 25% off your membership. A thanks to Fitbud for their support of this show and rela y . It is time to draft Jason Snow. We are doing it. WWDC is next week, unbelievably. Should we share the other little piece of fun news that we have right now where we're talking about W RBC? Sure. Well next week. Yeah. As everybody kind of might expect, I'll do my usual thing, which is I'm gonna be uh ushered over very kindly by people at Apple, ushered over after the keynote to a space that they 've set up that is like a uh a podcast studio and they'll you know they've got mics and cameras and chairs and stuff and they set that up for us to to do it. And people may remember that um what three years ago I think you and I did that together and the last two you've been kind of remote for various reasons. Um what people may not know is that this year uh you will be there too. I will. We're gonna be sitting next to each other after the keynote, recording in person , uh which is perfect. It feels perfect for where we are this month that we'll be able to be together, we'll be able to take a bunch of extra pictures of ourselves in fun environments that we can use on our Kickstarter page. So yes, next week's episode we'll be recording as soon as we can after the keynote. It will come out a little bit later on in the day. We will be together. We'll be able to do the obligatory high five Yeah. But very obviously the the event is in the morning and our recording is in the early afternoon Pacific time, so the episode will come out later as it usually d I mean it always does. It always does. It doesn't matter what's going on. Yeah, in fact it might be earlier than sometimes because we'll be able to record it while we're at Apple Park instead of recording it later after the day is done. Well and but because we'll be in person, it will be a an easier edit too for Jim. A much I think it will be a much easier edit. Yeah. These are the rules of the draft. There are fourteen rounds, twenty-eight overall picks. These picks are chosen from a predetermined list of choices that we have agreed could be verifiable and on screen and not ridiculously obvious. The WWDC rules for the draft are slightly different. Each host must draft at least one pick from the following categories. That is iOS, iPad OS, Mac OS, and Siri slash Apple Intelligence. We have some other categories too, but these are defined categories that we have to make a pick from at any point in the You can't do all you know, all AI picks. You can't do it. You gotta you gotta throw throw a bone to the the iPad and the Mac. And oh boy, I would you be throwing a bone to iPad OS and Mac OS Hey Mike, I I seriously considered making us pick Apple TV and watch OS picks too. Oh, that would have been just a real waste of a pick, honestly. Yeah. Uh the current draft champion gets to make first pick. That is Jason Snell. For an item to count in scoring, it must be either clearly announced on stage or on the slide during the presentation. Our friend Stephen Hackett will adjudicate in case of a storing a scoring stalemate between the two of us. No partial points are awarded, and the points awarded in the episode are final. They are finalized during the scoring segment. In case of a tie, there is a tiebreaker question. I, as draft challenger, get the pick of that question, and Jason as ch ampion has to give an answer. The winner of the draft crowned next week will become draft champion and can display the champion pennant. The loser becomes draft challenger and displays the challenger pennant. I would like to thank Zoe Knox for creating the draft scorecards that you can play along with at home by going to upgrade.cards and you can buy your own draft tea to wear on draft days like I am right now by going to upgrade your wardrobe dot com. The results of drafts so far uh there have been two drafts this year. There was a draft of the ages for episode six hundred, which I won, and then the March twenty twenty five experience draft, which is the best tit le of any went to Jason. Jason finally broke the draft drought. Uh and took the That's right. I went to New York, I had an experience and I won a draft all at at on oncece.. All This is our eleventh WWDC draft. Amazing. We have been drafting for ten years now. This is the eleventh one. Jason has won four and I have won six . Historically, these this is where I perform best out of any of our drafts. So the tiebreaker. I'm going to stick with the obligatory tiebreaker. I'm going to start the standard one that we go with. And I'm gonna go with the over under on the length of the event. We'll take this from Apple's website. So does they have like a video uh or from YouTube the same video so that'll give us the runtime . I took a look at previous years, right? So last year was an hour thirty two. Twenty twenty four, twenty twenty two and twenty twenty one were all around an hour forty five and twenty twenty three was two hours and six minutes because of the Vision Pro. What were they doing? Oh, Vision Pro actually. Vision Pro. That one went on and on. That was my that was the one where I sat outside of my hat on what for for two hours. But that was fun. Oh boy, that's a good keynote. It was a good yeah, that was good times. I was pull I was trying to get in the headspace here, right? I think last year they didn't have as much as other years. They had the redesign, but I don't you know, they they went into then more detail about that later. So I'm like, well, this year we're expecting a lot of AI. So I think they're gonna need some time for that. I'm setting the over under a one hour and forty-five minutes. You know, you could have described that any way you wanted to. Yeah. I knew that you would set it at 145. Oh, really? I because I would have said it at 145. Because I think that's the real tipping point here. Is clearly, so one, clearly, even when you get as a member of the press, you get like a little invitation with all of your briefings and stuff. And it's a two hour slot for the keynote. It's always a two hour slot for the keynote. They all think so 2023, real outlier there, right? Because they they they always think max two hours. But I think they also think let's shoot for ninety minutes. Yep. And then you get what you get here, which is ninety-two minutes, you know, maybe a little more . Um so one forty five I think is the right thing to do here. And as we've seen, they were over in 21 by a minute, in 22 by three minutes, and then and twenty-three by more than half an hour. But they were under and they were over in twenty-four, but under in twenty-five. Or no, they were under in twenty-four by two minutes. Um so well, I think one forty five is the perfect time because it if you set it at one fifty, it would be a lot easier. If you set it at one forty, it would be uh it would be just as hard. I'm gonna go under. I think they're gonna go under. I think I think Apple would rather not be over 145. And I think that the keynote will be less specific than maybe you do. So let's say under. Okay . That's our tie break. You're ready to start making some draft picks? Nope, but we're gonna do it anyway. Yeah, you're up first, Jason Snow, whether you like it or not. What is your first round draft pick? Well, um, I'm gonna shout out to my friends in the the app that I always write about. And I'm gonna say the Photos app gets AI editing tools like extend and reframe. This is a thing that Mark German has reported. Sounds completely, entirely boringly logical to me that you would do that. Remember when they did the thing where you could take pictures and it also took the picture with like what was outside your lens on the other camera and all of that. And now I feel like with so many of these features, portrait mode is like this too. Apple is like, nah, we'll just AI it. It's fine. We don't need we don't need actual data. We'll just use AI. It'll be fine. So that's what I think is if you need if you need a little more width, especially for like wallpapers and stuff, the option to extend uh just a little in order to get it to fit on your wall paper or whatever. It just makes sense. So I've mentioned this before, like I've done this manually, Photoshop before, to get it. Apple does have an extend feature in the lock screen editor, but it's not very good. And it and it it can't go very far . It can't extend a lot. And I'm hoping that they will be able to allow you to to really make some good tool I I do also hope that they bring whatever powers that just directly into the lock screen creator. Like just make the extend button do this and maybe bring up a UI for that or whatever. Yeah. Um the reframe one is the one. This is the one where they're like using the spatial photo thing. That I don't understand that and I'm intrigued to see what that is. It reminds me of do you remember Capture Outside the Frame? Yeah, that's what I was saying. Is is this idea that they used to like capture option ally you could capture beyond what you saw. And then you had like a few minutes to say I actually want to make it. You could you had you were actually shooting kind of a crack. I forgot there was a time limit on that. Yeah. Capture outside the front and and it was just complicated. It's a nice idea, but it just was never something that ended up being um functional in any way. So 'cause it became one of those things of like, oh, you know, now there's information in the image it yes just got silly. All right. Right. My first round pick, I'm gonna make my Siri slash Apple Intelligence pick. I'm gonna make the defined pick now. Siri gets a new chatbot style interface. Makes sense . Makes sense. So my my home pod is currently finding web results for me, so that's really good news. Let's hope that that gets better uh often after next week. Yeah, I think to me this feels like so w the most picks that we have to pick from are in the Siri and AI category because this is clearly what WWDC is going to be about, right? Like I think it logically it needs to be this, and all the rumors are suggesting it's going to be this. Like this is what the big focus is going to be on. And absolute table stakes for them is they need to present the assistant in a style like this, where you because it's what everybody's doing. If they don't do it it,'s going to look very, very strange as a product, right? Um like we wanted it in twenty four and didn't get it, right? It's like you surely you have to do this, they didn't do it. Um we've heard, you know, we've we've seen rumors from the from the sheriff that there was some pushback at Apple. I think John Gian Andrea specifically didn't like this style. Um but now it seems like they're gonna do it. And I hope that they do because I think this is the way that I mean Siri should have always been so I should be able to go back and read what it told me ten minutes ago, but you can't do that. So hopefully now we'll get that. Yeah, no, I think it's I think it's perfectly logical. Um, and this is one of those cases where you can be as you can poo-poo the chatbot interface all you want, but like people use it. Those apps are very popular, yep. So there should be one in the operating system without needing to use an app, and it has value to be able to check your history or to change context. I think that's one of the really nice things that the chatbots allow you to do is say this is my conversation about this one issue. So that when I go back to it, it provides the context, it understands that conversation separate from this other conversation. And again, that would be a really nice thing to have too. Yep. I'm I'm gonna um stay on the Syrian AI and make my pick here too, which is more third party AI support in the operating system, not just open AI. OpenAI, of course, uh is t having serious talks with lawyers about whether or not they should sue Apple because they feel so wrong to come on. But um I I just I feel like this is a pick from last year that didn't work, but I I I I still think it's there. I think that there needs to be a picker somewhere in the system that lets you say not just open AI, but let you say, Yes, I am a claw uh anthropic customer and I want to use that as my extended AI or or whatever it is, like whatever their partners are that they've got signed up, Google, uh, you know, open AI, the idea that that this is a an extensible framework, a plug-in interface, essentially, so that you can bring your own favorite AI provider if you want. Yeah. I think it's going to be really interesting to see if OpenAI is spoken about during the keynote in this way. I know, right? Because obviously they're going to spend time talking about this feature because there will be new and and I think we know we maybe will get to this. It's this is going to plug into new parts of the operating system as well and maybe be elevated further into other parts of the operating system. It's gonna be really interesting to see because you know Google would assume will be there, Anthropic we assume will be there. You've got to I think they'll just continue with what they've done, which is to say, Yeah, an open AI. Right? Like just like it's there. There it is. We we have no knowledge of this lawsuit because there isn't. OpenAI remains a partner in our lineup. Uh I'm gonna make my iOS pick, but it is also related to the assistant. I'm trying to say it less now. Uh but I'm gonna have to do it now. Siri interactions move to the dynamic island. All right. Now I had this high on my list and then I didn't pick it last time. Okay. And here's the reason, and I want to just be clear here. There are conflicting reports about how Siri is going to work and how Siri interactions are going to work. And the dynamic island is very specific. If it doesn't happen in the dynamic island, but your interactions happen in a thing that you pull down from the top of the screen, then I think this pick is wrong, right? Yeah. We'll we will not like it will be obvious if it's popping out of the dynamic island. If the dynamic island pops out and there's Siri things going on there and all of that, then I'm not going to live activities. They happen in the dynamic island, right? Like I think that the UI is going to look like it's coming out of that area of the phone. But if you have to pull down and it looks like notification center or whatever, you like that kind of UI, that's not happening. I imagine that that might be a way to get to previous conversations is to swipe down from that area. Um but so when you say Siri interactions, does this mean like if I activate it and say something, there's a thing that pops out of the dynamic island that will show like what it's saying and give you results and stuff that is coming out of the dynamic island. Yes. Like the animation, dynamic island animations have a specific look to them, right? Where they've got that kind of it's all dark and it's like liquidy, right? It it like m pops out of there. I guess they probably use that as some of the groundwork for liquid glass in general. But it has like a specific look, we will know it when we see it. I think this will be obvious to to work it out. All right. But if we don't, if we can't work it out, we've always got Stephen That's true. I just wanna I wanna set our terms here.. No This allows us this allows us to do it without having to resort to Steven. Yep. Which is nobody Nobody wants to resort to Steven. You just did like two weeks ago. Okay. Yeah I know, I know, I know. It's it's great. Oh, I also said uh in our our our special member uh spotlight that um that I would take a road trip with him. So we do a there's a there's a show that we publish every month uh which is just for relay members, which if you sign up for designed in California and you will become a relay member, so you will also get spotlight, which is so Kathy Campbell interviews someone and it's always questions on the Discord. And every single time this question is asked, if you were to go on a road trip with anyone from Relay, who would it be? It's basically always Steven. Everybody picks Steven. You said it would be lovely to take a trip of me, which I appreciated that, but I wouldn't pick me. I'm no good. Gotta pick Steven . He's handy. You know, that's what you need if you're gonna be going on a big road trip, someone who knows how to drive a car , fix a car, and fix things. That's what you want and that's what he's good at. Total debt energy. Yeah, exactly right. Exactly right. We'd have a good time. We talk about space and related subjects. Exactly old computers The problem with a road trip with Stephen Hackett is that he doesn't eat um lots of things 'cause he's allergic to lots of foods. And so actually it wouldn't be a problem because what would happen is I would just go wherever I wanted and he'd have like a Tupperware full of like steamed chicken or something. He knows what to do. And he just takes care of himself. All right. I'm gonna pick Yeah. I'm gonna pick shortcuts gaining support for Apple Intelligence Powered Shortcuts creation. Okay. I'm gonna I'm gonna do it. Um and I I just wanna point out you people can go back and check the record. Mark German had a had a story about how one of the plans for the Vision Pro, which didn't end up happening, I think it made Mike Rockwell really mad. One of the plans of the Vision Pro was that you could just describe what you wanted a shortcut or an app to be and it would make it. Yep. And I and I laughed and thought that was ridiculous. And friends, I made a Mac app last week. Yep. And this feature of like and and Federico did a thing where you can just say, I'd like a shortcut to do this thing, and it makes the shortcut for you. So we are there and this seems like a really cool I think it'll be I think it'll be more limited than what Federico did. I think we'll be frustrated by why, why does it not do this? Why does it not do that? But I do think that they're gonna try to do something like this that allows you to kind of very simply create some automations using uh simple text input. Yeah. Yeah, I that was you know it was like what was the the the rum was you be able to describe an app that you want in vision OS and it will build it for you, right? It will build it for you. And I remember at the time we're like, what does that even mean? And and and maybe now it will be something, you know, it will be a shortcuts thing now instead, which would be r really interest ing. Okay . Where am I gonna go now ? It's like with the WWE C rules, it's like do I pick things 'cause I'm going to need to pick them, like in the categories, or do I pick things that I actually want to pick because I think they're gonna happen? Because there's so much AI this time, this has been a little bit hard, but the the idea of segmenting the draft and making you make some of these picks is to add a slight bit of strategy where you know your fear is going to be that I'm going to take the really nice iPad OS pick, leaving you with a really lousy iPad OS pick. But you may have less confidence in your i iPad pick, and I may go take a a pi great pick that you wanted. So that's strategy. That's fine. Just a little. Uh I'm gonna make my pick about one of m maybe the most important app on the iPhone. So I'm going back to iOS. This app is so important that it's gotten incredibly bloated over time. Yes. Uh so I'm gonna talk about the camera app. The camera app gets customizable UI. The camera app it was already had a lot of stuff in it and I think Apple's attempts to try and clean that up with iOS twenty six is one of the worst designs in iOS twenty six. Um like when they made that like that sliding wheel thing, it's not good. I I do not like it. Like today, uh I was trying to use dual capture, you know, like where you can shoot your and it took me way too long to find that. Um they've added some stuff in like being able to choose your your video frame rate and that kind of stuff is really great to have in the camera app. But not everybody needs all of this stuff all the time. So having the ability to customize the UI, it's you know, a lot of people would say it's not very Apple like, but you know, I think you and Steven spoke about this, or maybe Stephen and Federico, it was one of the podcasts when I was away, of like you can customize the toolbars inside of Mac apps this way and they added this iPad OS too. You give it get a little palette like what things do you want to be shown front and center in the UI? I could see them doing something like this, and I would be very thankful if they did, because it would help me a lot . Yeah. I think this is good. I Mike, this was at the top of my pick list last round. Or this round, I guess, when I when I I because I pick first. Yeah. And I didn't pick it. And I'm going to tell you why. There is a non-zero chance with any feature regarding the camera app that Apple doesn't announce it at WWDC because they hold it and announce it at the iPhone event. I know. Even if it ships for every other iPhone in iOS, you know, 0.0 or 0.1, it allows them to like hold it and talk about it in the context of how amazing the camera is on the new iPhone. And so there's I'm not saying that will happen, but I'm saying I looked at that pick and was like, I don't think I want to pick it right now because that's the risk that you're taking. This was my conc ern . The reason I went with it is the iOS 26 camera UI was shipping in the base the whole way through. Yep. Um and Yeah. So who knows? But yes, there might be like they've got some new feature for the camera that would that could would obviously be given away somehow if they changed the UI, but I'm gonna go. Also, it lets them them I mean it gives some time to hide if they if they don't have to put it in and announce it to WWE. I also do think this is a feature that they might want a lot of user testing for during the Beaus. Yeah. I oh I agree. I agree completely. It's just that was that was why I had a very high level. I'm just a little concerned that they could on a whim essentially say, let's hold that. Yep . Which they could do. Let's hold up for point one and we'll mention it. We'll we'll we'll intro it it. And the and the you know they love that and I hate it, right? Cause it's the let's overcomplicate the iPhone announcement by announcing things that all iPhones get, but we're gonna put it in the context of the new iPhone, making it seem like it's a new feature of the new iPhone, but some of those features are for the new iPhone and others of them are for every iPhone. And then I have to try to disclaim, you know, disclaim all of that, pick it all apart and explain to people what they get and what other people get. I hate it, but they do it . They do it. So we'll see. But I I think it's a great pick otherwise. I agree. You agree that it's a great pick? I do. You like your pick? You like your pick. You're pretty happy about that? So my next pick, number four. I'm gonna make my Mac pick. Okay . And what I'm gonna say is there is specific acknowledgement of the Mac as a popular platform for AI agents. Great pick. Right. Basically, just oh Mac OS. AI people love macOS because we're great at whatever. Like it really doesn't the details of it almost don't even matter. I really just am looking for them. They they did this on the on the earnings call. And so I wanna I I I think they'll mention it here too, because they're trying to talk about how great they are for AI. I think one of the virtues of the Mac that they will mention is that it's such a great platform to run agents on. So that it's very popular with the AI people. Yep. Real question, and this might come up in the draft, but the question is if they're going to try and say they're doing anything agent like, but whether they do or they don't, they will tout I believe you're right, tout Mac OS as like ah everybody's using it. They're using it so much you can't buy him. The escalation pick here that I did not pick, although I could later, or you could, is do they also say they're going to try and add some features in twenty seven that make the Mac better for AI people to run their agents and whatever else they want to do. What I am actually hoping they do, like just to build on that a little bit, this isn't in the draft specifically. Is I hope that they create a set of security tools for agents. That's what I want them to do. That would be a great way to make the Mac even better for running agents, is some sort of security framework that allows you to say, allow the agents to do that. Because the agents right now, they, you know, some of the tools ask you, right? Yep. And some of the tools hit Apples . Like I've been I've been using clawed code and like there are things that Claude is like, can I run this? And I'm like, yes, go ahead. And then there are other things where you know, obviously Apple just was like, oh, I can I look at the dip at the desktop? I'm like, yeah, okay. Um, but could they you're you're asking the tools to go beyond what Apple's permissions are. Maybe Apple wants to add grant more granular permissions about what certain processes can do um for this particular purpose of like for users feeling like I can allow an agent to do this but not that in a way that maybe the current system doesn't allow them. They it's all or nothing. Yeah. Yeah. Because you took such a great Mac pick. You've taken the pressure off me from making a Mac pick. It's true. But I want to make an iPad pick. Okay. Because there is even, I think, less in iPad than It's true. It's true. So I figure I might as well make it now so I can take one off the board. I don't even know if I believe in it, but I'm gonna say it anyway. Spotlight improvements for iPad OS to be more Mac like . What does that mean? More Mac like? Does. So, you know, there isn't a clipboard manager. You can't um you can't Yeah, what what are the differences? Clipboard manager actions, right? To perform actions that you can search and do like a shortcut. Um you can search inside of apps like directly by pressing tab and all that kind of stuff. Um they could also just add some new features to spot light on the Mac and say, Oh, these are on the iPad too. Yeah. And that would work. Yeah. But I think this was something that we pointed out last year, right? Which is like, Yeah. This is really good. It looks just like Spotlight for iPad, but Spotlight for iPad can't do any of the stuff . And so maybe they should. Yeah . This episode is brought to you by Delete Me. Have you ever thought I should really be doing something to protect myself from scammers, hackers, stalkers, but not sure what? Here's what you do. Go to joindeleteme.com/slash upgrade twenty and enter the code upgrade twenty and you'll get twenty percent off delete me. 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And then they scour the internet, they find these data brokers, they process all the remov als for you, it takes care of you, gives me peace of mind. They send me these periodic emails that give me kind of like a breakdown of what's been found, what's being removed, and how they're handling it. Take control of your data and keep your private life private by signing up for DELETEME with a special offer for the listeners of this show. Get twenty percent off your DELETME plan when you go to joindeleteme.com slash upgrade twenty and use the promo code upgrade twenty at checkout. The only way to get that 20% off is to go to J-O-I-N-D-E-L-E-T-E-M-E dot com slash upgrade 20 and enter the code upgrade20 at checkout. One last time that is jointheleteme.com slash upgrade twenty and the code upgrade twenty. Our thanks to delete me for their support of this show and rela y . So we continue with the draft now. Jason, what is your fifth round pick? Okay , Mike. I have decided that now that I have uh lectured you about all the dangers of the camera app. Oh, good . Uh let's say the camera app's g onna get a Siri mode. Yeah, okay. It's visual intelligence Siri. I mean whatever you want to say. It's basically an an AI mode of some kind where they're gonna put they're gonna separate the di the or they're gonna eliminate the separation between uh camera for photo gathering and and camera app for other things that you might wanna do with it. I would I would argue that not only does visual intelligence belong in here, but um a more explicit I know that it does it anyway, but like a more explicit code scanning mode. Because if you get if you put code scanner on um control center like QR codes, you mean? Yeah, yeah. When you put that on control center and you tap and you and then there's a QR code, it like identifies it, it animates it, it flies it like into your face, and then it opens whatever is there. It's this whole thing. And it's very subtle with a camera, you can hold it up and a little yellow thing comes up and all that. But I think some people miss it. It's not convenient as a place to tap on. Yeah. So I I I would like them to add um that mode too. I think I think the camera uh camera app needs to get over itself and know that it's used for things other than taking pictures. Get over your camera app. It's not the pictures app, it's the cameras app. What do we do with cameras? Lots of stuff. Not just taking pictures. So get over it. Get over it, camera. Yeah. Why am I so hostile to the camera app? I don't know. I think the camera app thinks it's so great, thinks it's so highfalutin. Yeah. It needs to be taken down a notch by AI. Speaking of getting taken down a notch by AI, my fifth round pick is Apple Intelligence grammar checking comes to writing tools. Um this to me is what I want writing tools to be. I don't want an AI to write for me. I'm not interested in that. I know how to write. What I don't know, Jason, is grammar. What I don't know, you know this. You've worked with me for long enough. Mike is not good at grammar and punctuation. He knows what he wants to say. I'm don't fucking third person. I know what I want to say. I know how I wanna say it. I don't know how to say it grammatically correct. I'm not a very good I'm just not my skill set. Um and so I would love Apple to build a set of comprehensive tools that allow me to do this on device, on my phone, on my Mac. That would be amazing. Yeah. Built in grammarly for everything. Yeah. How bad would that be for Grammarly ? Whoa, it'd be bad, right? Well, that they're already pivoting to like email and AI. I don't know if they're pivoting to email in such a way of like didn't they did super human no Grammarly bought superhuman and then renamed itself Superhuman . I don't know what they're doing there, but yes, it would be and and I would make the same shirk Sherlocking argument as usual, which is if if Apple's gonna do this, you need to do offer features that are better than this. And I think that they're probably already working on that. But yeah, that would be great if Apple. This is this is I use Grammarly because I don't have a copy desk at six colors. I can't afford a copy desk at six colors. It's impractical. I would, honestly, I would. I've worked with so many great copy editors, but basically, you need copy editors to like sit around and do other stuff, and then the moment that you send them something, you need them to turn it around immediately. And that's not's not just it just practical. Yep. So we read each other's stuff uh when we can and then I also run through grammarly. So it'll be like you omitted a word here. For me, it's a lot of that. It's like this is a word, but it's not that passes a spell check, but it's the wrong one. Uh because you want the other spelling of it and I just typed it wrong. And those are the worst typos. It's typos that become other valid words because then you miss them. But it so I would love Apple to have that built in and have it make sense and work in a good UI so that I could use it. Yes. It's like, you know, don't use a comma here, use a semicolon. Like all that kind of stuff. Like that's what I would like. Um and and I like the idea of it potentially making Jason . Uh yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's great. I uh I need to pick something here. I am gonna pick six . Um oh I'm gonna boo my own pick. Boo boo boo. How could you pick that? It's um boo . Image playgrounds gets quality updates. Okay . Specifically, I I did make a quick t tweak to this which you you do know is Apple's image playground model because they're obviously going to integrate anthropic and stuff into this. But Germanizing? Yeah. Well I I at the moment ChatGPT is in image playgrounds if you wanted to, right? So I think they're going to allow for different models in there as well. But this is like specifically Yeah, that the default models are are better. Yeah. They don't have to specify the models, but they they basically uh what I'm picking here is that Apple says, Oh, image playgrounds looks better. Yeah, look at which it's just man, just get just I'm gonna be so upset about it. You know, you know, like it's just Boo. Boo . I just don't want them to. I just want them to leave it alone. Like, just get rid of it, you know? Um like I was listening to MacPower users uh from last week and Marco was on the show and he was talking about setting up his Mac Minis, right, for the transcription thing. It's a great episode of MPU. And he was saying about how you know he has forty eight of these Mac Minis and he has seen the welcome flow forty-eight times and and part of the welcome flow for Mac OS of a brand new Mac is image playground . Who put that in there? Who put that in there? You know, like you don't need to tell people about it there. Like that's you can't be proud of this, you know? Like you couldn't have been proud of it when you launched it, let alone all this time later and you haven't done it. You had a whole other OS cycle to think better of it. And you and the way you fixed it was you put chat GPT in it. And not even the good model for ChatGPT, right? It's just terrible. Just such a mistake. No, I don't like this, but I feel like they'll do it because it's so bad that they're gonna want to boast about it a little bit and you know, I would rather they say, Hey, Image Playground is dead or Image Playground is only using uh like I don't even know. Image playground is dead, but it is a dream episode of designed in California for me in the future is that we somehow get to tell the story of image playground. Like that is that would be a dream of mine to be able to tell that story. One day we or somebody else will be able to tell the story of what went on with the whole Apple Intelligence disaster. But and when somebody tells that story, we will tell it too. Okay . All right . All of my I've got like this big block of picks 'cause I take our list and I distill it. And they're just all Siri and Apple intelligence, which I feel but I think this is it though, right? So like I feel like w if I'm not picking these, I'm just hurting my opportunity to w in. Yeah. So I'm gonna go with phone number six. Siri remembers your context so you can have real back and forth conversations. Yeah, this is the, you know, this is the I say something something Siri responds, and then I I don't have to restate it. I can just say in context. So it's like, you know Lady, do the do the Giants play today? No, they don't. They play tomorrow. Who are they playing tomorrow? Yeah. Oh, it's it's you know, the Minnesota Twins or whatever. Um, just to be uh an actual back and forth conversation instead of a one-shot, which is what it is now. And then taking it a step further than that, like I want to be able to way later in the day talk again. Like just and it knows what I'm saying, right? Like all of the chatbots have a memory. They have context that they keep about you. Like if I said, uh you know , hey Dingus, uh Ohoi telephone, uh I would like to go somewhere to eat with Jason tonight. Can you make some recommendations? And it makes you know, and then two hours later, could you give the phone number for that restaurant? Like that's what I want it to do. Um, I hope it will be able to do that. But even just being able to have a conversation with the thing without every search being a brand new, fresh baby into the world, uh, that would be amazing. I prefer not to think of every search as a brand new fresh baby. Yeah. So this is weird. This is creepy. That came from like an inside joke that me and Edina have where uh if we if we hold Sophia like in a kind of baby pose, you know, like how you would hold like a newborn, we said like, ah, it's a fresh new baby. Even though she's not a fresh new baby, she is a massive toddler now . She's walking, by the way. She's walking. She's walking now. Unbelievable. Just happened all of a sudden. She just was holding my hand and let go and just walk to her mama and that was amazing. So uh Jamie's Jamie's first walk, she was wearing hi Jamie, who edits our show. Hi Jamie. Uh was on Halloween. So she was wearing a costume. She was dressed up as a monkey. And she just walked from the chair to the coffee table. That's incredible. Only could it be bested if maybe she was a ghost, right? It just like this, like she's just like walking around on its own. Oh All right. Man, what an episode. Boy. Round out. Uh four words for you, Mike. Apple intelligence wallpaper creator. Yeah. Again, a feature. I'm just leaning into the crappy image generation, aren't I? But I think they're gonna do it, right? Like there are rumors that they're gonna do it. They put in a whole bunch of uh wallpaper and backdrop kind of things, so it would be logical that they would create a more of an AI generated wallpaper thingy and and tell people it was great and you know TBD if it's actually great, but they'll tell us that. Yeah. Well s uh in part in part of my work , I am I am you know, w w widget smith, right? We offer lots of wallpapers for people. And we also have tools. I just think people like nice wallpapers and don't want to make their own, but we will see. We will see. We will see about that. But uh in I think that this is a fine feature to add though. Like I want a gradient or whatever. Like I think. I was gonna say people want nice wallpapers and they don't want to make their own could be an argument for this feature. Right? Because this isn't really much of making their own. It's like oh I I agree. My gut is people most people know what they like when they see it. Yeah. They just want to scroll and pick things. But they should add this. Like they should add this. This is like this and Jen Moji are the kind of places where they should be doing some form of image creation. Not I'm gonna make a picture of my mom in a like superhero costume, you know, like that's not what you should be doing. Speaking of which, my next outpick is improved genmoji quality because Apple please. If you're gonna put it this one, if you want to put any into image creation, make this better because sometimes they're brilliant. Sometimes they're horrific. They're bad. So bad. But when you get a good one, so good. Like one of my favorites, I made the Tim Cook Donald Trump trophy and I send it around like I made it. Oh man. Uh my one of my favorites is I I did a typo when I typed uh I typed Tim Cool. Yes. And I was like, who who is Tim Cool? And I then I've got the genmoji of Tim Cook on a surfboard. So what we're saying is better Gen Moji. Tim Cook related Jim emojis than the best Jim Moji, is what we're saying. Yeah, I guess. John Turnus has got some work to do. That's what we're saying. This is our challenge to John Turnis. Make Jem Moji better or make it just for you. Make Jmoji better again, JT. No, don't do that. Don't do that. Please don't do that. Sorry. Alright, what's your next pick? Let's move on from this. I this is this is kind of an all-OS pick and it's kind of a stagecraft pick. Okay . Um , I think that at least one feature will be labeled as coming, you know, labeled or described as coming later in the year. So this is the code here is there are the ones that they promise in the point oh release. And they're the ones they say, well, it's going to happen, but not in point oh. And the way they say that is coming later in the year. And that gives them the latitude to ship it in Octo ber, November, December, all the months that are later in the year from the release. Just to explain how the calendar works to our friends out there. So I I think well, I realized as I was doing it that I was just I mean, like those are I I don't need to list them. You know what the later months are. Anyway, I think they will do that because what are the chances? I mean there there's usually something where they're like, this is a bit of a heavy lift. We know we can do it, but it's not gonna be. But the challenge is are they still do they still have the fear from last year, which is we gotta we gotta only announce anything that's imminently shipping? Um, but I I'm willing to put down a uh a draft pick on this that there'll be something where they're like , we can ship this, but we're not going to prioritize it for point oh. It's going to come in point one. And they'll say, you know, and it may be a a sub feature. It may be like, oh, you're going to be able to do this. And coming later in this year, you'll be able to do that too. And like, okay, there it is. Coming later this year. So that's the code. Just for the fun of it. Yeah. I'm gonna pick. No features are labeled as coming later in the year. This obviously during the keynote. I reckon it'll be different on the website. This recommendation came from friend of the show, Brian Hamilton. Mm-hmm. And Brian suggested this to me with the framing that you just gave, which was yeah, are they going to be so scared that no one will believe them that they ha they can't say it whether it's true or not? You know, like and there might be that some features won't come until like halfway through the beta cycle, but they're expecting everything to come and they're aiming for everything that they're making to ship in September. And I think there's such an AI heavy WWDC . I think it would be best if they don't say these words. Yeah, let's see what happens. I love it. I think it's more likely that you get this. But I think it would be I think it would be beneficial for them to not say these words at all. Because you know, we spoke about this on on last week's episode . Everyone's gonna have their knives out for every demo that happens. Are you actually doing this? Can I see it? When's this shipping? It's gonna be a lot of that, I think. Mm-hmm All right, next up for me . Boo, boo. Buzzkill. No new hardware announcements. Okay . WWDC is not for hardware. What except when it is. Except when it serves them. Uh-huh. Uh I think it's funny because I think this is actually a great year for a hardware announcement, but I just don't believe that they're gonna in in given all the chip shortages out there, I don't just think they're gonna flip the switch on the Mac Studio and the Mac mini at WWDC. They don't need to. They don't need to. So I think they're gonna not do it. No new hardware announcements. I'm going to add into this pick in a way. Oh no. And say John Turnus appears in the keynote . Mm . So like I I think that's reasonable. I think but it's like you know, we we I mean last week you said you don't think you'll be in it unless it's hardware. Well no, I think that that's the best reason for him to be in it. It gives him a clear I got I got some feedback about this too where people are like he's gonna be the CEO. He could be in the keynote he could be the keynote without hardware and it's like well that's not what I meant. What I meant is if there's new hardware, it's a really easy way to put him in the keynote because you just have him talk about the hardw are and you get his presence there. They can stick him anywhere. They can stick him in a bit, a comedy bit. He's I don't know, skydiving out of a plane with Phil Schiller and plunging into the a pool where Tim is swimming and I don't even or surfing. I don't even know. There's ways that you he they don't need a reason. It's just that would be a a place you could put him. He can go anywhere. Here's what I would do, right? This would be my ideal turnus appearance in the keynote. The opening skip is focused around Tim, right? And it's like building to his final WWE C, which I think would actually be quite nice, right? Like they're showing him kind of doing his thing. And at one point, he walks past his office and John Turnus is in the tape measure. He's like measuring the desk. He's like, you know, checking out what's going on. I that would be, I think, the best way to use John Turnis in the keynote. Because Iause that'd be very fun. 'Cause they do these weird inside joke stuff, right? 'Cause they know who's watching this. And like they you know, they do a lot of these things like Hair Force One and all this kind of stuff. I think that would be very funny. But I I do think I think John Turners' role in this keynote will be much more than that, but that would be my like if you're gonna use him sparing use him sparingly, that would be my ideal if I'm doing some kind of funny thing about about taking over. I think that's a good pick . This episode is brought to you by our friends over at Mercury Weather, a thoughtfully designed weather app that shows all the essential weather details you need right at a glance. It has a beautiful, colorful interface that will dynamically adapt to your weather conditions. You'll see a warm orange palette on a sunny day, Jason. I have seen so many warm days, orange days in Mercury weather recently. You're in orange season now. Oh boy, uh or you may see some icy tones on a cool day or deep blue on a rainy night. Mercury uses a glanceable chart layout to present the hourly and day and daily forecast in a way that feels intuitive right away. You don't need to go digging through a bunch of screens. 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And don't just take my word for it, you can download the app for free by going to mercuryweather.app slash upgrade. You download it for free and try it out. They have a simple business model. They have no ads, no selling of user data. It's available on iPhone, iPad, Apple Watch, and Mac . You just download it. You can use all those standard features for free and upgrade to Mercury Premium to unlock everything. One last time, that is Mercuryweather.app slash upgrade. There's also a link in the show notes. Try it out to get all the standard features for free. Our thanks to Mercury Weather for their support of this show and all of Rela y . All right, what you got, Jason? We're into pick number ten of fourteen. Yeah. You by the way, we were gonna do 10, and Mike was like more, more we have so many picks this time. And WWDC is usually where we make the most. So And I think it's the most entertaining when you've got a lot so that you can you're less likely to tie. Oh yeah. It's gonna go back and forth. It's very dramatic. I'm gonna follow on your stagecraft pick with a pick of my own, which is Mike Rockwell appears. Ah, I had this high up. Yep. And I I'll say AI or Siri features, because that's what he's in charge of apparently. But like they like to show lots of different people. Mike Rockwell was put in charge of Siri . I just think Mike Rock Mike Rockwell is going to appear. Um and that I we'll leave it at that. But like he's got he w he shipped the Vision Pro and all of that. I think they're gonna make him appear because it's they're gonna they obviously need Mark German had a hilarious uh post on social media the other day where he's like, Well, the woman who showed off all those AI features that didn't ship just started at open AI. So it'll be somebody new presenting. It's like, well, yeah, I think that was probably a given. Sometimes Montgomery just says things. You know, like you say, sometimes he does that also saying stuff. Also sho showwinging Mark German's just he's got his finger on the pulse of the HR departments at various Silicon Valley companies. That's one of the things that he's really into. So anyway, Mike Rockwell appears, um, presumably to talk about Siri . Did I scan through the keynote right now? Did Rockwell show up at WWC 23? Was he in the video? There was a lot of people . Yeah, I think it was in the Vision Pro video. Yeah. A lot of Alan die d in this. Oh Bob Iger. Bob Iger's here. I was getting Bob Iger video. I've got a lot of lots of people who are no longer uh no longer w in their in their previous roles. Yeah. There he is. I found him. Okay. Yep. There he is. Just the word technology next to him on a screen. And that's right. That's great. No, I like I I think it's a little bit creepy that you're uh you're you're just freeze framing on Mike Rockwell because it's like I always feel like somebody's watching me. Sorry, see that was a reference to 80s music by uh an artist named Rockwell. Anyway, moving on. Thank you. Yeah. Okay. I don't know where I am anymore. Um nope. I don't either. Where are we? We're just in space. Yeah. Okay. All right. Uh yeah, I'm the I'm th this is a bit of a uh I would say like a pet pick at this point. We do not see a return of of all the AI features promised at WWDC 2024 . I just don't think it's gonna happen. Yeah. I I I feel like we had that moment where Where they had they were remember, we talked about this in the spring. They had a moment where they were like , We're gonna make good on all our promises. And then there was a moment where they're like , hold on. And and they wrapped it all in that in the coming year kind of stuff. And then they that like there was the German report that it was supposed to be the spring and then they were like, no, we're not going to do it. I think as a part of this, absolutely what they are not going to do. I I agree with you. I mean, we'll see how it's pitched, but I have a hard time imagining that they're going to make good on all their promises because I think part of the problem with the twenty four announcements is that some of those promises proved impossible. Yeah. Exactly. Quite simply. I just think, yeah, they sure as you're saying some of these things they can't do them. How they deal with that gonna be fascinating. Do they ignore it? Do they bring it up again? Um I'd made so Unconnected we make picks for the whole year, right? And one of mine was this and that essentially Federigi will do a condensed version of his two architectures conversation? I think it will come up somewhere. He'll say, We had these two architectures, we went down this road, then we found you know, and then he's going to expand on it and say, Now we've got this great on the whether they talk about Google or not, I don't know, but they can't talk about we've got this new stuff. And so now we feel like we have even better features than the ones that we shipped. Yeah. So there are some that we're not gonna do, you know. Sure. Or whatever. Yeah. I mean that's even if they even address it that way. But but I think I think you're right. If they if my guess, if I had to predict, is that they will make a cheeky statement that we'll all know what they mean, but they're not going to say it. And it'll be something like, I know we've been up here the last couple of years telling you about Apple Intelligence, but this time we mean it. Let me tell you what we're gonna do, right? And there'll be a little some laughter and like whatever. Um and they'll move on. I I don't think I think they would maybe say something, but I'm not sure it'd be in the keynote. You know, they might say it somewhere else in an interview or whatever. 'Cause like they kind of fell on their sword at the beginning of last year. I don't think they want to do that again. They that's true. They may they may 'cause remember we're picking the keynote here. So there may be external communication about this that isn't in the keynote. But if we look at the keynote and and the AI features from 24, many of them are absent, then you get it right or or any i guess any of them i would say like if it's like a feature that's there but one aspect of it is not there that's not enough but like if things are just missing if there are holes we'll know we'll know what we mean by that I'd like people to watch that very carefully. Just just get your get your checklist out about what they announced at twenty four and then like just see if they all get mentioned because I don't think it's to me the obvious one is actions cross apps. I just don't think that's happening. See, that that's funny thing, because that's app intense, and I think that's a thing that could happen. Yeah, cause maybe. I j but that's the one to me where I'm like, Okay. I don't know about that. Okay. We'll see. My next pick, my 11th pick. Um I'm gonna pick this now because I'm afraid you're gonna pick it too soon. And I need this one. I need this one not because I know it will happen, but because I want to be rooting for this the whole time . It has to be. And I want everybody with me, everybody we know with me saying I'm with Jason. I want this to happen. And that is Lil Finder appears somewhere in the keyno te. Yes . The little mascot, the little Mac OS logo character. Right. Somewhere in the keynote. Yeah. Anywhere. Anywhere. On a pin. I mean I won. Anywhere merch. A Funko Pop on a desk top pin out of this little friend. You know, like what are they you know like this is a hit it's also something they made. It's not like this was But Apple made this, right? Like for their advertising for um the Neo. Like it yeah. And it has continued to pop up . So embrace this little friend of us, you know ? Yeah. There's some people in the chat room who are like, no, I'm not with you. I don't want to see it. It's like, I don't know what I mean? I just think it's adorable. I just think it's fun. I just think it's a cute uh it's like whimsy. Let's go get a little whimsy in there. Yep. And it and allows all of us to play Where's Waldo, which is great with the keynote. I'd say if pay attention. If it's not in the keyno te, I know where it will appear. On the desk of somebody's video. You know, like they do the videos sessions and they always have little trinkets. There will be almost certainly. Almost certainly. I would not put it past being a pin that developers and uh get . I would not put them past that. It's uh it's literally a thing that everybody gets at Apple Park. Speaker to Finder, it' infsluenced me now. It's time to make my Mac pick. Oh I'm gonna go out there on this one, I think. Yeah, do it. Fourteen picks, Mike. We gotta get weird. Because I mean it's not weird, but I think it's a risk. Okay, it's out there. But Is' perfectly normal, but it's out there. That we will see signific ant slash noticeable improvements to liquid glass on Mac OS. Okay. I love it. I love to hear about it. And and and y what you're saying is right when you say we will see. Mm-hmm. Because that's how we're gonna have to judge this, right? They're not gonna be able to have to show they're gonna have to show Mac OS and we're gonna have to look at it and we're gonna have to decide while sitting at Apple Park right after the keynote. We're gonna have to decide is this significant andor noticeable. Yeah I don't think even me and you are gonna need to decide. I think this will be such a thing that everyone 's gonna be looking for, and like Mastodon will light up and be like, oh, they fixed it. This looks so much better. And like I only expect any tweaks of significance to be on macOS. I think there will be tweaks of all kinds throughout all of the operating systems, but I think macOS hurts people the most, and I think they're gonna make some tweaks out. I do not know what they will be, if I'm being honest with you. I d I don't I have no idea. But I think we'll see it and be like, hang on a minute, that's different. They've changed this. And everyone will be excited and uh people will applaud and uh that's my macOS pick so I have now made all of the obligatory picks. Congratulations, man . I've I've made my contractual obligations. I I am playing a a a long game with the iPad pick. Yep. I would this was going to be my last pick 'cause I didn't think you anyone like you know, but you've you've influenced me by t by bringing up Finder, so I may as well. I appreciate it. Now I will just let people in on part of my strategy here, which is now you could hurt me by picking another iPad pick. But I've decided that if you do that, you're only hurting yourself. I'm a maniac. Yeah. Jason, I could genuinely imagine they don't even talk about the iPad this year. Oh, I don't think that'll be the case. But I could imagine like it could happen, right? They that they don't that it doesn't get its own segment . Hmm. Right? Like that they do iOS and then say and so many of these features are coming to iPad OS and they just show it. But like I could imagine it, you know, like they have like their big segments. I could imagine them not doing one for the iPad this year. Because I d I don't even think there's going to be that much added to iOS that isn't just Apple intelligence stuff. So we'll see. Okay, Mike, I'm going to go back to the AI well, and I'm kind of picking backing off of you. You talked about um convers ational Siri. I'm gonna throw in the other one, which is uh tell Siri to do two things at once. Okay . Shockingly it doesn't do. Yep. So this is like multiple requests. So you'd say like turn off these lights and also turn on this thing or also run this what like multiple things at once just to see. Uh can I mean we're both just putting a chip down on Siri B Be decent. Be what we want. Anything. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So you know. All right . My thirteenth pick is developers get access to more power ful on device models . I think I think this should be a thing that Apple provides, right? There are already models. So uh the reason I was thinking of picking this, if I go back go back a little bit , WWDC is the developer conference, right? Like that's what it is. And often it's really just here's the new operating systems, right? And then the state of the union, they talk about some of the things that will actually be available for developers to build on. But I think this is something that might get into the keynote is, you know, I think they may spend a little bit of time getting a little bit nerdy in the keynote and talking about how great Apple intelligence is. And they I'm hoping that they will say here. I mean, I'm hoping it will happen. I'm hoping it'll be in the keynote. I think it'll definitely be in the State of the Union, is and for our developers, we have more powerful on device models to allow you to do this. And they'll say, like Krouton, that's doing this. And like uh what is that app? Um they use flighty a lot. Gentle Streak doing this. Right. Gentler Streak is doing this. Like they have these apps that they f feature frequently with this stuff. And I think it will be some of that to show people what they can do with Apple Intelligence. Alrig.ht Alright. Well, I'm done with my last pick. And it has to be an it has to be an iPad pick. Yeah. I've left it for last. Yeah . I've got many choices here. We we we did very many choices. Um there's a thing that I think is gonna happen, but I don't think it's gonna be in the keynote. Okay . Hmm. Hmm. Hmm . Um I I'm gonna not w oh I'm I I'm still wish casting. Everything is a wish cast um clipboard history on ipad os yeah straight up we'll talk about what i thought maybe in in plus but like uh clipboard history out on ipad os straight up i i i think everybody's reaction to clipboard history in Mac OS last year was this is great, put it on iOS. Um and I don't know whether it'll be on iOS, but iPad OS seems like a reasonable place to put it. And this would be funny because I think technically if this is it, we'll both get a point, right? Uh yeah. Because it will go into spotlight. Unless hey, you never know. They just throw it somewhere else in the system. We've got a new keyboard. Alrig,ht so I got the last pick. Oh boy, I have so many. I have like another 15 things in my list here that I could pick from . Because I'm the last pick, I'm going to talk this out a little bit. So the things that I'm debating here is Apple debutes its own AI powered search tools . Because they've been crawling the web forever. Why not start doing some of their own sear ches? UI to activate writing tools in new places in the OS. This is a Mark German thing . I have a few more that we might get to talk about in uh upgrade plus, but the one that I'm actually gonna pick is Expansion of Satellite Features to New Parts of the Operating System. Whoa . Interesting. There has been a bunch of rumors about I mean there was there was a rumor about an API for developers but there was a rumor about more things being possible over satellite and I just read that because Amazon bought the company Globalstar, right? And they're probably and they bought out Apple's shares of Globalstar. And so I think that they are setting the table for a more advanced partnership here and to do that more satellite features available in the operating system . So that is the draft. We've done it. Yeah. So as we mentioned, next week we'll be recording the podcast together at Apple Park, which I'm so excited about. What a lovely treat that will be. Uh Jason, we the Kickstarter as you speak right now uh has is is getting very close to fifty five thousand dollars raised. So record. I feel very confident in saying that that designed in California will have fifty episodes in its first year. This that feels very stretch goals. Um so it's gonna get better and that's gonna be if you back it, you're gonna get more. More. Um if you're getting the if you're at the membership levels, so everything but that base level of wallpapers, um, you will get um the more stretch goals we hit, the more um stuff we do. We won't do it's not gonna be like more we're not gonna do like 70 episodes a year or something. No, that's not gonna happen. But it's like different types of content. Yeah, we've got other bonus content that we will put uh that will be members only that we'll start adding as the stretch goals go up. Yep. And remember, stay tuned on Thursday this week for our first preview episode as we begin the road to the Apple II. How does Apple go from the Apple I to the Apple II? That is what we're going to be talking about on the very first episodes of Designed in California. Which by the way, these will all be in the feed when the show launches, including the episode of upgrade, we're gonna kind of make some tweaks and re-edit that. That will be the first episode in the feed, and then all of this uh road to the Apple Two will be in the feed. I I don't know if this is something we touched upon earlier, but we're not going to be telling Apple's history chronicologally in the show. We're going to be jumping around throughout uh the history of the company. But we're just we're starting out with the road to the Apple II uh and then we're gonna kind of jump around from there. Yeah, we figured that since it's going to be in the upgrade feed, it made sense because we did sort of end our Apple at 50 on a 2B continued. And so this is a continuation of that. So you you can pick up where you left off. But yeah, we're going to jump around. Um we we don't want to it like the seventies are very interesting, but we we can't I I'm not gonna just do a podcast about the seventies. No, I don't want to jump around. Yeah. I wanna I also wanna do some stuff that we both were remembering and both are part of at the time, right? L like we were working during those times or really paying attention during those times, as we have already uh established Jason was working for most of it. Uh but that's what makes him the best person for this job? Um oh man, I I am elated . This is like the perfect start to the month. We're with this people know about this project now, and we're actually going to do it, and I and we're going to be able to do it at the level that we really wanted to do it. Um so I'm thrilled. Absolutely thrilled. Go to the designed.fm to learn more. There are links in the show notes too, of course. If you would like to send us your feedback, follow- andup, questions? Go to upgradefeedback.com. Thank you to the upgrade plus members. Go to getupgradeplus.com. Uh, we'll just note it's a great time to sign up if you want to support the podcast, because if you want to do any of the tiers that come with merch items, we're offering great discounts there. So could be a great time to become an upgrade plus subscriber. You may actually pay for the vast majority of your membership if you sign up for a year and you want to back the podcast. If you want to buy a uh if you want to buy a a pin or especially the poster, um you can get m you could save just by being a member, you could save maybe enough to pay for most of that membership for a year. That'd be cool. Got a get upgrade plus dot com. All that information will be in upgrade plus. You can find a video version of this show by going to YouTube searching for upgrade podcast. Uh I'd like to thank Mercury Weather, Fitbod, and Delete Me for their support of this show. And I want to thank you for supporting us in all of the ways that you do. It means so much. We'll be back next week live from Apple Park. Until then, say goodbye Jason Snell. See you next week Mike