Closing Thoughts and Next Episode

From Relay, this is Upgrade Episode six hundred and twenty. Tod's show is brought to you by Keper, Squarespace and Factor. My name is Mike Hurlely and I'm joined by Jason Snow. Hi Jason Snow. Hi Mike Hurlely, and we are together recording at Apple Park today are. because we've just We've left multiple events. Oh yeah, we've seen it all. but we've We haven't seen it all. We've seenen something. There't want more But I have a snow talkal question for you. Okay. It comes from me. And what I wanted to ask you today, Jason based on a conversation we had yesterday. Okay. So you were kind of thinking how many WWBCs you have maybe been to consecutively Yeah, I mean, there was the one where nobody was here, but you were still there. You attended in the way anybody could attend. Exactly the most. the Max. How many is that now I I actually don't know, but I think this is either my thirtieth Anniversary or it's my thirtieth. I think it' your thirtieth. I've decided that because I think that's fun to say this is your. It was ninety six or ninety seven. Because you know, Tim said today was his fifteent fifteenth. Yeah. he's a double on him. I know. C Tim Cook. And he can never catch you now He could never catch He never catch you. So congratulations to you. I guess. I win So take that Tim Cook. Tim Cook who I I shook his hand today. Yeah, we'll talk about that in a minute. We're going to talk about it. I guess I won't talk about it now. We're going to talk about it now because first we have to do the draft Oh yes, we do. This is a hard droft school score. This is a very We did bad things to ourselves. Yeah. I made someics that in hindsight was very hard to try and work out if it was accurate or not. So the main one I'm thinking of is that we do not see a return of all features promised at WWC twenty four But we're actually kind of breaking from tradition a little bit this year because me and you were struggling so hard score it? Yes. Zoe who puts together upgrade. cards, they did a scoring. Yeah she scored it for us. We're just ye we I'm going to take her I'm going to take her score and also I open two image files here on my computer and one of them is our draft score from Zoe and the other one is that slide, that completely deranged slide that had a thousand features on it in the tiniest print and it was up for like a very small amount of time. Okay. And I had multiple people send me synopses of everything and those were too long. Yeah. So we're just going to go with this. We're going to go with T take a picture of that and then send it to Kodex He did make me a list. Yeah. he did. And somebody emailed me. Somebody emailed me Yeah done the same thing. people like lists. We love them. Thank you. So let's run through our pick real quick. Thank you and we're analyzing this And again, it's like, bearing in mind, we've scored this to the best of our ability.'s a platform state of the Union is happening right now. And I think there may be a couple of things right in there that our game is about what's in the keyne. Exactly. Not what's on the website, not what's in the platform state of the Union, notot what Craig Federici told us up close and personal shortly thereafter, which we happened and we'll get to. So yes I said the Photosap gets new AI editing tools Got it. More third party AI support in the OS Didn't get the same didn't talk about it. We'll talk about that more in a bit. Shortcuts gained support for Apple Ielligence powered creation. Got it. spepecific acknowledgement of the Mac is a popular platform for AI agents. Didn't happen. Craig Fiterigi mentioned it on stage. and they said it gic at one point. They did say a gentication. Well, you'll get a point for that in a moment. yeah. I got camera app agains in AI mode, image playgrounds, get quality up grades Apple Intelligence wallpaper creator, A at least one features labeled is coming later in the year. No new hardware announcements. Mike Rockwell appears. Boy, he appeared The Here's a good problem with that? No, I just went, you know, you pick it in the draft and then he shows up. He was very promous. He was very promise. The Finder mascot character appears. Somebody sent us a screen grab of a little finder I'm going with the Finder mascot. The Finder mascot. I just think it's there because now there is there's a war amongst the naming and mascot name. L littleittle Findy. Yeah. I like that one too behind a like behind a display at one point I didn't get Vision OS mentioned in passing No specific features. There were specific features.. In fact, maybe we'll get to this later. I felt like this was the revenge of Mike Rockwell. fininally being able to create all the seri features he couldn't get when he was in charge of Vision OS. Okay Um, Siri can handle multiple requests at once. That's absolutely true. And cllipboard history added to iPad OS not in the keynote or the slides, so maybe not at all How'd you do So Siri gets a new chatbot style interface. did and there's an ad it. Syria interactions moved to the Dynamic Island, which they have The camera app gets customizable UI. Now I didn't get this point. I'm really interested to see if there's something in there for this Be that was a very heavy rumor that appeared to come to true. Yeah doesn't seem to have happened. Spotlight improvements for iPad OS to be more Mac like. There was no indication of that. Apple intntelligence grrammar checking tools. I got that, Serial meembers context, I got that Improved Gemoji quality. We didn't see that.. No features are labeled as coming later in the year. Siri AI is. Yes And John Turner appears, which he didn't until later, we do not see a return of all the AI features promised at WWC twenty four Zo we mark this one as I got this one? I don't know. And this is the one of the hardest things Yes we shouldn't have. business, yes Beause it was like that was gonna be way. were all those things I don you rememember. I did some Googleing. I couldn't do it. No. Significant or noticeable improvements to liquid glass on MacOS is actually everywhere. well as Mac. But there's very they did, they singled out YacOS. They really did Someone says Eentic, which happens Yeah. deevelopers get access to more powerful on device models, which they have and an expansion of satellite features for new parts of the operating system. So that was ten points to eight. Congratulations. draft Champion. I am It'sraftit champion tightly Thty years WWC teaches you a few things, Mike We did but we did say on the last episode that I have won more than you. So you're getting close to tying me at WWBC. Yeah know, thirty years dail thirty yearsact That's what I still remember them allall details Before we move on, we have an important update. Okay, which is to talk a little bit about the design in California Kickstarter campaign. Yes. So we are running a Kickstarter campaign right now to fund a new show, which is going to be hosted by the two of us, which is an Apple History podcast. We're going to be digging back through Apple's fifty years and telling stories This show is going to happen. This show is now going to have fifty episodes a year because we've met the goals that we needed for this. But it as it stands right now, I haven't actually looked in the last few hours because we've been somewhat busy. A little bit c loading a page but we have very much exceeded every possible goal that we ever could have imagined. Thank you to everyone who's chipped in and supported the campaign. We' very close to to have raised one hundred sixty thousand dollars for this podcast. So people want it, which is a great thing and we are so grateful. Please go to designed. Fm where you can sign up back campaignign. This show will be coming later on in the year. We have a couple of stretch goals. now. once we get if we get to one hundred seventy five thousand we're going to be doing more art, more music because people have heard in the episode the preview episode that came out on Thursday, which is our first episode in the road to Apple two. We debuted R the music from Chris Breen, who produced the music for this show as well And if we reach two hundred thousand dollars We' committing to a live event in both London and San Francisco that we will both be in. Yes. They may be meetups, they may be live shows, we just don't know. We don't know We're committing that we will do that as part of this show. someomewhere live where you will see us. And throughout the campaign because there's still a lot of the campaign to go. It unbelievably it hass only been a week.. It feels like it's going for a really long time because it's been very overwhelming in the best possible way. We have more of the show to come. So it's coming this Thursday is the second part in our in our series about the rooad to the Apple two. and I will say I got lots of great compliments about the first episode and I'm really pleased people enjoy it. I think as the season goes on, it only gets better. The story becomes more and more exciting and weird and wonderful So I hope people enjoy that, but we also have a lot of stuff to show Prints are going to look like what our pins are going to look like and that's all going to be coming out over the course of the campaign So please go to designed. Fm. where you can find out more and back the campaign. Do you have anything you want to add to that? Nope, just it's overwhelming and great. and I'm looking forward to getting started. But we got WWDC twenty six first. Yes, we absolutely do. We absolutely do. I wanted to talk a little bit about what our day has been like, sure, so far So, you know, like Rike mentioned right now, we're recording this while the State of Union is going on. So we had the keynote We watched the keynote together. It was really nice. It was outside. shhort keyote. I w won the Tie Breakers? Like seventy minutes Uh yeah, seventy seventy five. seventy five with the Song at the end. Yes, which prominently featured friendriend of the show, Casey Lissa's very A callall sheet, which was really great. Very cool. all we all pop very hard for that. That was very exciting Um Then afterwards, we went to something called a tech talk Now, after WEDC twenty twenty four, they did one of these, where Craig Federigi spoke to an audience. Were you in that audience? Yes. about it was it seemed to be mostly about private cloud computute, but it was a lot about Apple intntelligence and kind of talking about some of the technical aspects of what was in Apple Intelligence to provide more background. We have another one of those today. So there is actually going to be a lot of the things that we're going We talk about when we talk about Aple intelligence A lot of it will be informed by having presentation and some demos and some question and answer gives a lot more information and detail So that's a cool thing that we got to do in advance of the show. And that was that was Craig Federigi leteded. and then they had Sebastian from the intntelligence experxperience team, Mike Rockwell was there, who was the head of Siri and Aar who is the lead on AIML technology at Apple. And they answered some frequently asked questions and then answered a few submitted from the audience. And yeah, there was a lot of extra detail there about what they're doing But we were sitting in the second row. We were. They just let us. We just sat in the second Well, I think For forgot Federica was already there. I don't know how did it. That's true. just Federica. So we sit down. They didn't need the second row. they had the first row they needed. We didn't know they needed the first row because all of a sudden in front of us appears Great joshs,ack. J back. John Turnis Well, no., there was a break. Greg Joswck and John Turner show up. Yeah. They say hi to us. They John Grouper makes fun of him and says, Oh, you can show up late now that you got the new job. Be I remember I remember the Turnist that showed up on time, which is very fun veryery funny. And I thought to myself, well, you know who isn't here though yet? And there's an empty empty chair is Tim Cook and that's the job where you really get to show up right at the last minute just kind of appear stealthily like Batman. And then I'm sitting there talking to a person I've known for a long time from Apple PR. She's right in front of me and then all of a sudden somebody comes to her and goes, got You' got to go. And u That's because Tim was there. And then Tim sat down plopped down right in front of me. Yep. So we I Tim John Turnis E Joshs Aack all kind of in a row right in front of all of us. So I was say I was right next to John Gruber Young. Gber is making funions time as he turns around says and he says Hi Mike I done. Well, you guys shared a special moment. We did I didn't know that he remembered who I was and And I said, congratulations. and he said, than you guyss got to be good with names. He's got to be with names Well, he must be because We met once a long time ago. mayaybe, you know, maybe they have like a little they do like guuess who kind of game? Maybe just like They took a picture of us while we were waiting for them to come in and then they went over and said this is who these guys are. Or maybe they some kind of secret. It was pretty wild or something pretty wild. And it meant that when, you know, because because Craig Federigi can be a little free wheeling on stage. I getly everyvery time I see him presenting unrestrained U in a live format. I keep thinking of the moments where I know that he's going to come up with an example or an explanation or a description that's maybe not been approved entirely by Apple Marketing. Yeah. And I can see his brain working and sometimes I think those come out I think he's much better at it than he used to be at kind of restraining himself. But let me tell you, it is a different position to be in when you're sitting right behind his bosses because then I'm almost like putting myself in the shoes of Tim Cook and John Turnis and Greg Jzwiak and thinking Creraig. Now Greg, easy Craig. D now D is very funny They kind of a loose canon. That was it was quite an experience. And that was a really interesting thing to see as I say, we're going we're going to be talking about that, but like some of our experiences and some of the things that we learned in there which can help inform. I did want to say like so This year There's a lot of detail in the keyot And it was a very condensed keynote.. So they packed even more information in there. and I know that there's going to be lots and lots of stuff that we're going to be learning over the coming weeks as always. Yeah. This will be our first high level take about But this year was, you know like it reminded me of twenty twenty four because twenty twenty four was the first Ale intelligence keyne In twenty twenty four I was Bewildered Like I couldn't put my thoughts together. And I remember that year, you had a very difficult schedule. So we ended up recording the show on Tuesday. Yeah. And I was very happy for that because it gave me time to kind of collect my thoughts because I couldn't really conceive of what some of the things that we were shown This year, I would say it feels overwhelming but in a more understandable way. Like I feel like there's a lot of information But I'm not like blown aside by it. In fact, what I would say is This You can see how Apple has thought really hard about how to roll out the information they're rolling out. what I think one of the interesting questions is what is the keynote at WWDC for? Because it's not to communicate new OS features to the customers.. It's really not because they don't care. They'll care the moment that they're offered an update in the fall. right now they don't really care. So it's more about general industry messaging to you, the industry in Wall Street It's about communicating to us. so that we can start thinking about this and communicating it And it's about communicating obviously primarily to developers. So Their first segment was not even, I would say information overload. it was like a light gloss on some highlights And then, you know, stay tuned for more. That's where that slide was that had a zillion features in it that go was up for a moment And then there was the second segment, which was about U privacy and safety. And then there was the third segment, which was about AI.. And that was And it was a short presentation, right? And that AI segment was reasonable. It wasn't information overload. No. It was It was clear. So there was a lot of information being imparted But it was really telling that like the first segment felt so packed because they had decided we're not going to spend forty five minutes on this. No There are other venues where we'll talk about this The last part really important But not overwhelmingly complicated, especially since you could argue They're restating some of their Yes arguments from two years ago. Yeah, I like a lot of the big features are things that we've had multiple years to consider R Like that was the difference last time. It was like, you know, like in twenty twenty four, I was really I was kind of blown away and couldn't understand image playgrounds. and I still have a lot of complex thoughts about it But these thoughts now are just building on the things that I felt last time. And so I mean, I guess that's the The thing they've kind of gone back and have re implemented a lot of what they wanted to do and they've gotten to this point again. Yeah, I was I was going to say and we're going to get into it later, but I'll just throw it out here now There is one way you could This which is Apple saying Actually, our strategy is the same as it was two years ago, but we needed better models. And our partnership with Google has given us better models. So we can do it now seems like it This episode of Upgrade is brought to you by Keper Security Loging in used to be a hassle with so many accounts to keep track of Kapa creates strong and unique passwords, fills in my passwords, automatically, remembers logins and keeps everything organized across all your devices. so you can get to what you need instantly wherever you are Keeeper is a password manager that creates those strong, unique passwords you need for all of your accounts, stores them securely in one place and logs you in automatically across every device you use So you never have to remember, guess, or worry about your login credentials again For businesses, KPper takes the chaos out of managing access for teams so they can securely share logins, control permissions, and protect sensitive data without slowing down their day to day work What people really notice is how simple it feels. 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And I love that they have support for two factor codes built in. so it makes that extra layer of security even easier to manage than dealing with emails or text messages They also have autofill taken care of with their keeper fill technology on every platform, which is a must for me. Right now, Keeper is offering listeners of this show sixty percent of personal and family plans at Kpersecurity. com slash upgrade pod. This offer is only for listeners of this show. that is KEEprsecurity dot com slash upgrade pod for sixty percent of personal and family plans Make sure you use that link to the dinner we sent you and you get that sixty percent off, which is a huge deal at keepersecurity dot com slash upgrade pod. O thanks to Kepper Security for the support of this show and all of relay All right, so let's start digging in to what's going on. it Yeah. And we're going I want to start by talking actually starting at the start, which was the platform improvements. So this was a in lieu of all of the platforms this year Especially because most of the features are Apple intntelligence. instead of going through each platform They did an over kind of a big overview, which was a I would say an extended way to say No newew features, bug fixes and improvement, that kind of idea. Yeah. It's the it's Apple's equivalent of no new features, bug fixes and improvements, which is a slide with hundreds of things on it But there isn't your big like, hey, this is we've redesign home screens. We've redesigned lo of screens, we have a new design language. Like it's not that. It's not It's E everything we' currently doing and we've made a large series of refinements. One of the most interesting things to me was the long, long list of speed improvements that have been made for certain things. you know, like Asolly going to load faster you're going to end up with, you know much quicker experiences across the system. Airdrop iser. Yeah. Files in iPad OS transfers at Mac speeds, which I thought was just like a funny way to think of it seenty percent faster getting your photos to show up after you've taken them into the photos library, which is a huge one. Yeah, that's clearly. I mean, they actually said we tried to find places that responsiveness was a problem and fix them. And that's like that's what people want And things like on the website, you know, like once having send indicator messages for specific messages. Like I've had this where, you know I'm not connected to the hotel Wiifi in my hotel. I'm just on cell service and I'm sending images to Edino or whatever. and I send her a photo and then a message explaining the photo youll have to wait for the photo before she'll get the message. it's like brereaking those up and showing independent kind of send indicators. It's little bits like that where it feels like what they have done is one way or another, collect up a large amount of annoyances that people have with the operating systems. The line that I underlined in my notes was Great OSs are built on sweating the details Again It's marketing and they're not going to say it. In fact, talking, I enjoyed how she struggled with the idea of describing speed upps because she had to say Of course everything's fast already, but I know And sweating the details, they're never going to say it. I think the implication here is we heard you you feel like we haven't been sweating the details on a lot of parts of our OSs and we're going to make good on that this year. And it's a year where they can Exactly Well, yeah, I think I think this is a great approach to say, look AI is number one We're going focus a lot of our effort on integrating AI wherever we can two is sweat the details. It's not another we're not going to do another big initiative. We're not going to do a huge overhaul Number two is, get things faster Get things more stable, make nice incremental improvements to the stuff that's already there.. And from a marketing perspective, they don't need another tent poole feature because the AI stuff is the tent poole. They will stand or fall in the fall based on the AI stuff.. So they don't need to gin up five more bullet points of apps that they're releasing or rereleasing or whatever. And so it's the perfect time to say, okay Let's Take some pride in our work And revisit what we've done and make it all better for our customers. And they should. I mean, honestly, You can't do that. I get you can't do that every year year. I mean, you should have a bar of quality, but like, Every so often, you need to do this. You need to say, we're no longer rushing headlong into another wave of new features. We're going Tighten all the bolts, but also just like Logically you can't do it every year. Certainly, because you would run out with things to do. you can't keep making the fasta thing fausta like year over year. But you can find other things. But you want to after years of breakneck development to take some time and say, you know what? I'm not because I think the impression I get is a lot of these Software teams There's always pressure for the next big ten poll feature of the next thing. Which is is the issue of year over year software Yeah upgrades. So to say this year, it's sweating the details is what we're doing. That's the other thing beyond AI. I think, you know, as a user And I like it as them kind of setting an example too you know, for all developers in a way. likeike this is, you know, sweap the details. You're going to sweat the details. But that's an important part of making good software is being that particular over it Let's talk about liquid glass. Yes, because they actually spent more time talking about liquid glass than they expected. I wrote some fun things down. Okay. I wrote down We continue to iterate on liiquid glass. I thought that was fun I thought, we appreciate your feedback There were some chuckles in the audience at that We've made additional refinements. And then also there's a slider, so you can just make it whatever you want What I liked about the slider though was some people want it more glossy, someome people want it less Yeah. I love that it was like there are some people. they just like glass I don't even want to see the ab No more. J texting above nothing.'re probablyably gonna to go all the way are You are going all the way baby. I want to see myself and my phone. Yeah Yeah, I get it in. I get it. I love it. But I think Again How do you How do you give a marketing message that is we heard you without saying, we know you hated it or a bunch of people hated it We're not going to throw away, but we're going to fix it Instead you say, We continue to iterate and we appreciate your feedback, which is what they say. I respect it. Yeah. And I think it's great. Andy that they didn't retreat. If you go back to us a year ago, you will hear us say the exact same thing, which is they're going to go too far And then the next year, they're going, they're going to iterate and refine and walk some stuff back and fix some stuff. and that's just how it is. And here we are. Yeah I think it's great. and It was particularly interesting. how much time they spent talking about the max specifically I don't think they actually spoke about any other platform specifically. It was just the Mac. It was like we're making changes everywhere. We've made it better. We've also given you more customization But here's how the Mac is better Be there were all those ways where the Mac did not with liquid glass. And it's like side b. It's radius. A toolbar. Yeah Yeah, exactly. Color back in the icons in the sidebars so you can tell whether it's frontmost or not. And they've removed the icons from the menus. Davven text me. Oh They sent it to both of us. They've removed icons from the manouse which You know I think they were fine. I they were fine. I'll say goodbye. I know look. Well, I don't think they were fine because I think there were the wrong icons. likeike I could see it in another circumstance if the icons were good. but if you can't do G goodood custom icons for all those things, you just gott toa let it go Well because it's like an infinite amount of icons in there Yeah. And like you've got to H. icon I can't think of a word with an icon show complex things. It's very very difficult. Yeah. And then and then you're reusing icons to mean different things, which is also bad. Yeah, I think Good. againgain. they heard the feedback H's my question for you Did they do this because there's new leadership in the design team. Or would they always have done this What do you think I think it was easier because there was new leadership. Maybe specific things could be changed differently. Sure. I think some things would have been done anyway. I honestly think the Mac stuff would have been done anyway because the Mac My whole Tahoe take is that They didn't get to it until too late in the game. and so it was not even finished And we can argue about it. I mean, I sort of feel like the Mac was spared because they didn't do it more aggressively. but I think that would have been addressed this year because it was broken and they needed to fix it But you put new leadership in place and it's a lot easier to change things because you don't have A new leader can say, let's tweak it, where the old leader will be like, Well, I know I approve this thing, but now I'm going to deapprove it. It's like that's a lot harder for somebody to do with that level But obviously with this kind of in the platform improvements There was like Grab bag features that they did, like iCloud shared albums will now be full quality images, which I had thought was already the case. Well there's I mean, guy who wrote a photos book here. there are different kinds of shared albums U Some of which were not at full resolution and some of which were. Okay. And then also that you can invite your friends on Windows and Android.' nice have them. What do you think going to be a web or we going to be the web? Web? It' niceough on the web. Does' youd assume they can also download the images as well, you would assume. Right? Like it's not just uploading So you'd have a link. I guess you can already do that, right? but you can't contribute. And then like AirPods custom EQ. Sure, whichich just feels like a real esoteric feature that you can add in a year like this, I guess. I really liked There's This is why again, it's not no new features because there's actually a bunch of pretty great new features on here. The fact that they spent a lot of effort apparently, looking at what happens in network transitions. So when you walk away from your house It's your iPhone is much better at realizing that I can't get on the WiFi anymore, but I'm on the cell network and not have you have a fifteen or thirty second period where there's no network connection. I like in these kinds of presentations. you know, you're saying like theyre like things are already fast. but like when they're like, you know what it's like when you have to turn off the wii it's like the gu you did that Who made this natural process? I'd like to find the guy who did that. We're all here asking Yeah. Exactly. We're all here asking the question who did the network transition thing bad? And then like Vision ofScot. More features than you would expect. Well, revengeer Rck creating your own environments of panoramas, right So does this mean other people can make them O can you only like so it's like, can you only make your own? Like you can't have like, can developers make that? I don't know. We don't know. I don It would be so funny if the thing we've been asking for since Vision OS came around, which was let third parties make environments. They didn't do that, but they let you make your own out of a piano. And it's like in a year like this, right? This was the year for third Py watch faces. That's true Right Like that feels like it fits in this. That's like a long requested thing. but that is clearly just a thing. we're not Yeah, I think they're never gonna. We do have a new app grid, which I missed becausecause I was taking a note, but yeah, there there's a new app grid. I'm looking at it now it's big. Yeah, big, big. Okay. Go to apps with a new dynamic app grid.. sounds great I don't really think that the watch go. Oh, and Everybody who complained about Sotlight will be delighted to know that they rebuilt the foundation of search So it's more stable, efficient and comprehensive and This is going to be a theme here too. They did that Fraplin top right. Well, they they cl needed to rebuild that so they could index it. So the classic Apple move Anybody who's had a favorite feature that you wish was better and you waited several years and then it got better Classic Apple Move is Somebody at Apple needs it better. Sotlight need to be better They had to throw away the old spotlight because they needed the spotlight index is the semantic index. It is the source of what is going to drive all the personalization in Apple I intelligence. and Siri.. So you got to have it Or the other example that Federico and Stephen Roblus and I were laughing about AI event while we were waiting for it to get started is Shortcuts. There are all these improvements in shortcuts like if else statements and What what's the other one? Oh, data storage, ye which didn't exist for years. and there were third party apps that tried to do it and all of that. But it's very obvious why those things got add to shortcuts. It's because if you're going to build a feature that lets you build shortcuts by typing a text prompt those people who are building that are like, wait, we can't store data. Wait there's no if else statement U and then the problem gets solved because somebody at Apple needs it. and Spotlight will benefit from the fact that Siri needs to use sppotlight and Spotlight wasn't good enough. So now it's going to be better. which I mean, that's great. It's just very funny to see it. that that's In the end, if there's an a A tier feature that needs your B tier feature to work better, the B tier feature finally gets the love. Yeah Do you have anything else you want to touch on with platform in the platform improvements before we move on to the main event? Be I' conscious of we want to spend the majority of our time talking about Apple intntelligence. No let's go to Apple Intelligence. Okay. 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Think built in appointment scheduling, email marketing tools and more. pllus, keep everything cohesive with on brand invoices and get paid easily with online payments Go to squarespace. com slash upgrade for a free trial and when you're ready to launch, use the offer code upgrade to save ten percent off your first purchase of a website or domain That is squarespace dot com slash upgrade, the code upgrade for ten percent of your first purchase and to show you support for the show. A thanks to Squarespace for their support of this show and all of relay They did it again. Here we are P intelligence. Yeah. They started Okay, so As I said We have had a I don't know if you call it a briefing. They they called it a tech talk. It was a conversation had in a room. It It was again, what is the keynote for? The keynote was not for an hour of technical detail from Apple's AI leads. It was on the record, right? Like it was all go ahead and use this But not in the keynote. And so that message will be mediated through journalists. But It was added technical detail and answering frequently asked questions that they didn't want to add. So all of our questions about the Apple Google relationship, for example, they gave a lot of clear answers about how Apple and Google are working together on these features. how they manifest and where they come from and where they're going and all of that. that was in there along with some live demos, which, you know, we were, you were sitting right next to John Gruber. And we should talk in general. I know we we're just answering this topic, but They demoed our thing, they demoed live a couple of seri with an iPhone. Someone was doing it on the stage. On the stage with an iPhone which I mean, that was one of John Grrouper's big questions from two years ago is did we ever actually see that running. And I saw somebody today who referred to the demo of Siri in the keynote as slow Siri It's like, no, it's slow Siri. 'causeuse all AI is that slow. You're used to having sped up can simulated AI demos. Well it just feels weird to be unedited in in a polished video. but they knew because of the criticism that it was fake that they were going to do the demo live. and the split screen is live. And if you watched one person's hand move in one, it moved the same way in the other John Group were sitting next to me and he was like, yeah, it's a match cut the of the two things side by side. In that presentation, like the presenter spelled something correctly and referenced that Ziri would catch it. Yeah. I don't think that that was necessarily intentional. No, it was all it was all basically as live as a precamp thing could be on purpose. Now could they have had to fail and then done it again. Sure. I'm not sure they did. sureure But What they're trying to say is this is we're not faking it. This happened. Yes. As a result The demo They had blue music under it and the demo goes on longer than you want and you're watching it spin. And I will say at our thing that was live all of the prompts felt like they were faster I don't know if that's because they were or because when you're watching something in the context of an Apple product video, it's surprising to make you wait. Yes when there's nothing happen There's a context there The whole point of this was to demonstrate that this stuff worked because of what happened in twenty twenty four. And you know both doing various briefings and things over the next couple of days I absolutely expect people are going to be seeing these things in action in close quarters. I have no doubt that we're going to have a sp spir. If they don't do this, it's if if they don't do these kinds of things, every conversation E podcast, every article, every video is. They showed us this, but can we believe it? Can we That's it seems like they have taken and they're taking every step possible Y to make you believe it as much as they can. Be so this is the thing we don' I don't understand right now Baters are available. Yeah right now But Siri AI is coming late to this year don't know if it's in the Ba' honor I don't know. And like if it's not So okay, I just open Dcord. Zoe says that it is alive in the betas. So I don't maybe they're going to keep it running through the beta and then it will come out Later on in the y. Well, because they may want to keep testing it. in beta form even after they shippp the point in the public keep it only turned on. they might keep it only turned on in the beta. So I ex it will come out because the thing is like now, you know, they talk about Essentially right now, Siri and Apple Intelligence, they're becoming one and the same. Yeah, right? Siri is no called Siri AI. S AI Apple intntelligence, it seems like basically all of the Apple intntelligence features that they mentioned reference Syri in some way. So it kind of feels like They're the same now Pretty close. I think there are some things that are not Siri, but Siri is is like the medium in whichle feels like it uses their play. If it's not like photos Yeah it feels like it really, you know, or like image playgrounds is like dinct things becausecause even where like the writing tools it's like write with Siri. It's like all of this kind of stuff. so they're kind of bringing them together And in the conversation that we went to, Mike Rockwell said that they He said a year ago We had kind of a version of this working Like these kinds of features But it wasn't right. Yeah So so we went back to the beginning, rebuilt Siri from the ground up the new models that they've been. He said we literally tore Siri to the ground. Yes. That's a quote. We literally tore it to the ground which is in line with some of the conversation when he got the role Yeah, which is that he was very frustrated about it. Indeed. And so I'm sure he'd You know, It's like I'm done with this. not got you got the big wreckon ball out there and just took it to the ground. Which I think at this point in Sirious's life is something is absolutely needed. Its it had to happen. That's why it didn't happen for so long. Y. is because they were they were kind of hesitant to do it. and it failed so spectacularly that they had to do that I like the AI section begins with what I wanted, which was a little bit of a declaration of principles, and it's not that different from two years ago. It's don't do AI for the sake of AI. Our mission is to turn the potential of technology into helpful products for people, basically, is what Federi said. I'm paraphrasing there That that's apppple in a nutshell, right? And so they want it to be catering around you and your needs and your personal context And so That's the statement of purpose And then you know, they introduce their bold new architecture whichich is very much like something you'd hear in a Star Trek intro. S. These of the voyag is a seri. It's bold new architecture to connect apps I don't even know what I'm saying there. So let's talk about the architecture.. There are multiple models. Yes. And this is really interesting. So there are multiple models They' Apple Foundation models version three. And the models are partnership, they say, between Apple and Google. Yes, including models that get trained a certain way some of them and then are trained further on Apple frrontier models. There's a lot going on there. Bation models No, no, the Google Frontier model Google Font are used to do something. S U yeep, some training later on So it this is the part that's Apple and Google Cab. Yeah. but what Federici was took great pains to point out is It's not using any part of the Gemini infrastructure.. The models run So there are two models that run on the device, right? There is the There is a, they say very much improved model AFM Core advanced is called That is the on device model. and it went from three billion parameter model to a twenty billion parameter model. That is the on device model but they're able to call just certain parts of the model. This is like a new architecture that they've been working on So they only need, you know, they only call what they need as a multimal model. so it it can take different types of media Um, That is what it is by design and that is an on device model and it's called AFM Core advanced picture of a slide. Yeah we was sh. Yeah There is And and important to note There are actually two on device models Yes, becausecause if you're using one of I guess it's an iPhone I think it's iPhone Air and iPhone seventeen Pro If you're using an M four or better iPad and an M three or better Mac There's a better on device model that you get that includes right now, there will probably be more features that use this model It's though doing the better speech synthesis. I Wonder if that's AFm cord. I think that's Cord advan core, but it's a better model, but it's obviously not as good but not as a not as much better as cord Van. But they have these whole strings of like, you know, they have like what it called the system orrchestrator, which works out and writes a prompt based on what you're giing it. System orrchestrrator is think that decides, am I going to the cloud with this or am I doing it on device? Yeah. And they made a point of saying they do it based on latency. Yeah. So Orchestrator is like, okay, I could do this on device, but it will be faster to go out to the cloud. They go to the cloud. Yeah, because latency is the priority there. in the cloud, There are also three models. There is AFM Cloud, AFM Cloud Pro. And ADM Cloud, which is the diffusion model for image image model Cloud Pro. is where you're going to get your highest tasked stuff. And again, the idea here is they only send that stuff there if they really need to crunch on something. A lot of stuff just runs to the regular cloud So AM Cloud is, this is my understanding, AM Cloud runs on Apple's, Apple built, Apple Silicon operated, Apple Data center, private Cloud compute. It's what we already know of as private Cloud compute. But private Cloud compute got redefined today. Yes. So the new definition of privateoud compute is not is not alsoso whatever Google does for privacy That's actually not quite what it is. And it's also not. pple serice. That's not the definition no anymore, which ever had been. Apple service in Apple's data centers. It's not. AFM Cloud Pro is is They are using hardware in Google data centers It is Google's hardware Apple controls the servers and signs the server ID so that Unless Apple is the last one to touch it Your device won't connect to it. And it's God Nvidia with Nvidia they p Privacy tagle and Nvidia And Intel as well and Intel and they have multiple passs. but basically what they've done is they've they've orchestrated private cloud compute in Google's data centers. But what it isn't is sharing space with Google's privacy thing.. It is Apple privacy stuff running on servers in Google's dataents. It feels to me that private Cloud compompute now is more of like a set of conditions. It's a brand name. Some of what Google's doing and some of what Nvidia is doing and some of what Intel iss doing. They take care of, say two thirds of the requirements and then Apple's like and then we add the other third in Yeah that gets them to where they need it to be. So they took great pains to describe this and I feel very satisfied by this the way they've described it all It makes perfect sense to me the way that they're doing it and that the fact that they are not compromising even though they have had to G help Yeah. and and The fact that they They want to they know they have to use Google's dataenter for these models because they need the they need the power and they need the Nvidia technolog and they do because they need the power. they don't have it anything. They need it That's not enough, right? Like they added this other layer of it So so this is, I mean, the way they always framed it is is it's a Google Apple collaboration that they're very happy with and that they I mean, clearly the answer also is that that Apple's models are much better now that they're Google based models that Apple is is, but it's also not a white label of Gemini. It's just not. No. It's Google's model. No, it's not Gemini tuned by App and Gemini is a product It's the model that helps Google build Gemini. Yes, exactly Be they're not the same. they're not the same. So like Apple built its technology. And then they said they refined it using Google's frontier model which is like, ye It's not a big boy Right, But that's not Gemini. And when they talked about This multim modal model on devices say that ten times fast. You did it the f said they ten billion parameter model and that's the moment that Feder Rico next to me kind of gasped. He's like, oh yeah But they it's multim modal. twenty billion. said they under twenty billion twenty billion. twenty billion. One to four billion use depending on the request because right that's how they focus. And they kept talking about spS. is the name of the arts project Wh whichich Mike Crockle said a technology invented at Ale. we wrote white paper on it. I was like, okay, okay, I get it. We get it. You did something called it. But yeah, and then also there's a developer story, which I'm sure is being spoken about at great length in the state of the Union. But that that I'm actually really excited about this. So developers, they have access to give their information to the spotlight index so their content can be indexed and the app actions, which I guess is It's app intense. they talked about the app toolbox as well, which feels like they're just coming up with a different nameames. New phraseology for Aense essentially. Like, you know, they showed the demo that we got on stage, it was like a conversation about an image Where is this image make me a trip plan to go to this place And they say like it wrote to Apple Notes, but it doesn't have to And what I'm really interested in is How do I get it to write to a thiror? That was going to be one of my questions is if if you know I use because Craig said, it could bear notes. I like Greg. Well if you know that I use bear Does it know or do I have to tell it? Because because they also talk about like, you know, like say in writing tools, something I found was really interesting. With the writing tools and suggestions, it says it's tailored to the person So like if I talk to you in a different way that I might talk to someone else, it should give different suggestions based on that. So it's like similar, if I'm saying at a reminder It should never put that in remind us It should always put that into doist if the system really knows about me. Because I don't use reminders, I use to doist And like is, you know, are there going to be preferences you set tell it like what I don't want to happen is like what Sya used to do where you'd be like makeake a task in to do, you know, you had to And it because it feels like from the things that they've shown. you don't need to do that kind of stuff about Ale intelligence now, that it should have the context about you. It should know what you're looking at on screen even and that it should be more free flowing, more conversational with the system. So I'm excited to see what that ends up being. Right, because it's less functional if you can never go beyond stock Apple. Yes apps. But that I mean, and that's why Craig Federigi said specifically that if you wanted to go to bar, you can do that too somethinghing I was worried about was that This kind of reset point would have reset all of that And so like it would have been a another year for a third party story. But I'm very happy that they've not done that. They've been evangelizing App andents for so long now. I know. But I was just what I was wondering and I mean, we spoke about in the show, I spoke about it unconnected. Do they just abandon it and go of MCP? Like you know we had no idea what they were going to do. Like A intents made sense two years ago. Does it now, but does it now? I mean, the jury is still out on that, R of like whether app intents are the right way to do this because it's still going to require The third part is to integrate in the way that Apple needs to get the stuff that you want in the way that we want it. So it's unknown. Right now, how that's going to go? but I'm intrigued I would say for me, kind of like overall I'm actually really keen on what they've shown today Like the Apple intntelligence features, I think I think the conversation stuff with Siri seems very good to me. It honestly feels like I will stop using a general chatbot. likeike I can't I if it works the way it's shown today and with the promise of it No, I don't know why I would use Ch JPT anymore for what you use it for. Yeah, which is, you know, like asking general questions like what do you think about you know Googlearch like more compx Google searches. One of the things that Craig Federigi brought up at the The tech talk was You know, last year you guys said you weren't going to just Um stick something in the chat bot Yeah, ye. And Now you have. now you have And I think the way that obviously, you know, it's self serving, it's marketing, it's all those things, but I think it shows you U gives you an idea of what they're thinking here, which is They view Siri as a feature that is available on in any context at any time, anywhere in the system and that you invoke because you want something whereereas a chatbot is, I am going to go to the chatbot and ask this thing Ser is, I'm looking at an app. I'm, you know, I'm working on a project I asked the system a question It gives me an answer. I continue to work And then they said the existence of the Siri app is largely because We need a place to store the records of your conversations so you can go back to them and refer to them and continue them And in the context of what Apple does Of course, that would be an ab because what else would it be? And I think that that shows you that they're viewing Syria as this more global thing that it's deeply integrated in what you're doing and not just something that gets bolted on, which there's an app where you wiping down from the dynamic cl the dynam on the button using the wake words, like you get all of that. And, you know Ive really loved some of the stuff about the on screen awareness and what that can do for you. Like you just The iPhone can see what you can say ye And so you don't have to structure your queries in such a specific way You just say like Tell me more about this. what is that You know, like it feels and then they got the voice stuff, which also feels like it adds to the kind of customization, conversation warmth kind of feeling. Like I like the Siri AI to me seems like what I want Oh, and it syncs across your devices too that your your history with Ser My clloud Yeah, I guess. I'm intrigued to understand that because it's like None of it's being stored in a server. So how is it doing that Like if they're saying everything you say, we're not storing which the record and it's not the data that's transferring. it's the question and the result And those are in a series transcript that syncs by iCloud, I think. Yeah. That's just my guess. I So but not any of the data for processing, it's just your question and how it was answered and then you can go finds like that's living somewhere ICloud. so But you guess it's encrypted. These are these weird like edge cases, right? It's not liket I believe what they're saying, but it's like, but then how does that work But that is the same as health and photo m Ccrypted iCloud or messages And I'm pleased because that was a concern of mine, which is like, am I going to end up with this disjointed experience between the operating systems? where like I'm asking a question here and then I'm not getting it there. The Mac actually got quite a lot of interesting stuff, right? that like clicking on on an image or a file and you can ask a question a set of files on a set of files. L there's a great I love that demo of like hereere's a bunch of specs for or a bunch of sheds S these up and tell me which is best. I was like Oh yeah. All in a different format.. But you can throw them at the agent and have it look. So it's like, you know I could imagine downloading a bunch of bank statements, right and be like, here are these bank statements. Can you just make me a financial dashboard or whatever And I feel so much more comfortable asking Apple to do that than anyone else Right? likeike sensitive information like that. I do trust them in a way that I don't trust other companies And I feel like now they've got that information in a way that I feel comfortable, not loading it to open AI or Claed or whatever, right? Like you say, I have full faith in And I do believe what they're saying when it comes to security because it's the whole proposition R L this falls down. and I like that they what something I really like and they mentioned it again today. they're like We make it available, peopleeople can just check this. You can just verify like the private cloud that works the way that we. They say the last two years, that it's been available. know, it's been verified and we're still letting people do that Yeah. And that makes me feel comfortable Mhm. Were there any other ures that kind of really jumped out so many. Okay I know there's a lot, right? And And again, this is without us having been able to try it. Um So Let's talk about photos Okay And you wanted as you wanted to jump to something first. I wanted to jump to Sfari first, do safari Um So We in advance, we heard this idea like tab groups would be made. via AI What they've done is they grouped them as topics, which are not tab groups. They can be saved into tab groups. But it's trying to identify out of your hundreds of tabs what the different topics are and put them together, which I think is really smart. It's all going to be in the details of how it's implemented. But I really like that idea of like, look, You're not going to organize this, but maybe we could organize it for you a little bit. And those eight things that you're doing while you're shopping for something get rolled together automatically by the system as a tab topic area. It made me laugh because the tabs say things like Poffee seven which is you had seven tabs open about coffee and Well maybe coffee at seven, you know Maybe, maybe. So I think that's really interesting Um Subscribe an extension Yeah, vibe coding saafari extensions basically, right I mean, that was interesting to me because okay, so here is like a Apple vibe coding environment Only for saafari extensions? Well, I assume there's a bunch of stuff Xcode that we don't know about But like as a user facing feature.'s no, it's extensions and shortcuts shhortcuts. Yes, right. Okay. Yeah. And the idea here, I think they're viewing it also as being you're in Safari and you're like, I would like to make it so that This happens and that it could build something for you fairly quickly. That feels way more nat than shortcuts even. Yeah to me. Like don I don't know. I can't even think of what I would want to do to a web page that I need a shop that I need to make an extension for. Think about it. you'll come up with something what kinda? U passasswords related Before we move from Fari, the The fact that you can you can say like, let me know when this tab changed. Oh yeah And you just close it and it will come back. Yeah. So if you're waiting, you know, like I made a joke to you. It's like, well Every single person sitting in this audience right now go developer thatapple. com, let me know when this changes. And so we'll find out when WWC dates go up. right? Like that is going to be a thing that now everybody just has one of those. But I thought that was fascinating as an idea that you could be waiting for an in stock drop to appear or maybe a sale to go on on a website or whatever That's going to be interesting. Sometimes they do these things and I feel like it kind of breaks the dynamic of the web This is one of those things I feel like it's kind of breaks the way that some people love the web, but I think it's fantastic Passwords is going to eentically. Yes. change your passwords for you. Yeah, so it seems like you would just say go change all of these and then a bunch of servers are going to spin up somewhere it's going to startop clicking around on stuff. I'm unclear Or is it just in the background going to the change password page for those sites and clicking and filling in a new thing But like it's happenving confirmation I reckon it's happening on your device. You reckon it's happening on your device? Itould be. I guess it could be, right? Yeah Let's talk about photos Okay. Yeah, we can comeut back to other stuff but I want to make sure's about photos. because there's a few things. It's photos and it's image generation. Yeah this you know, we talk about how Apple is really good at taking pieces of their technology and connecting them together in different ways and reusing them And the photo stuff is fascinating to me So They may clean up better light. Of course they could. There are way better ways to clean up photos than there were two years ago. and there are now that technology is behind. Absolutely. So okay Extend, again, you can do it in Photoshop, you can do it in all sorts of places. It's a logical feature that has some real value if you need to just make it a little bit. I do this all the time on my website where You know, I'm doing a six color story and I need a photo that's a little wider Yeah, justust a little wider It doesn't need to be tall. it's too tall. It needs to be a little wider. I need a little more of the background showing This solves that problem, right? or whatever. Or you're extending the height to get it to be some Phone paper and an Instagram carousel and you want your images to be square, but you have a portrait image that you really like. so you have to crop it awkwardly Well, I guess now you could just make the image bigger so you could get a better crop out of it or whatever Stuff like that. L they seem that seems really interesting Oh this is an image model. So this is a cloud model. It's happening in Aston. All the image models are happening in that cloud diffusion model Um So reframe The reason I brought up Apple reusing its technology is reframe is basically reuse technology in a very clever way because They built this thing For Vision Pro you can also do it on other devices where remember know remember portrait mode, remember the idea that you could capture a spatial image. And they threw it away because they realized that using an AI model Analyze a photo, any photo ever taken does a better job of figuring out what the spatial characteristics. And then they brought it to the iPhone last year, right? where you can you can do it and you move your ph around. And And they did an advanced version of it now that you can do with any photo on Vision Pro as well So the problem with that So you can yeah, you can move it around and reframe it, which is what this reframing feature is doing But The problem is it's happening in real time because it's just to look at and Parallax which is so the background is moving at a different rate than the foreground. That's what parallax is means that like if somebody's standing in front of something and you move too far to one side, like a wall wall If the wall is a consistent color, it'll look okay. But if there's something like not consistent back there, it looks really weird because it doesn't match. And if you go off frame a little bit it's going to just fuzz it out because It's not there. They try to fake it a little bit, but they don't try too hard because I got to do it in real time. So this is using that exact same technology to let you position the camera a little bit differently as if you were getting a spatial look at it But what happens at the end is once you say, yeah, that's the angle I like You press reframe And it sends all that data to that cloud model. And it does a good job of generating the background that's missing And they said very specifically only that. They don't touch anything else, but they will they're essentially extending the background and extending the stuff that was uncovered by parallax, which You know, Joe Rosensteel wrote something for me at some point about this about how you make three D movies Um and one of the challenges with making a three D movie. is the parallax because if you only shot it in two D And then the second eye is over to the right You got to paint out You gott to paint in the background because there's new background there and that's hard But it's better if you press the button and let it render it than it is if you're just doing in real time where it looks super fake. So they're just this is literally just off the shelf Apple technology that's been around Other than that final rendering step, which is in the new model But they've done it in a clever way where you can say, if I wish this was just over a little and down a little and then render and then the photo changes to look like that because they've made this complex machine learning driven Um, basasically texture model, distance model, withith all the spatial information that it's gleaned from the shot and then it can rebuild that shot. And they said it'll work on anything. So like you could take a slide that was shot in nineteen sixty four of your grandparents And you could do this with it because it's all just using ML data I have incredibly complicated feelings about this feature. Tell me I think it's very cool And I know I'm going to save images, right? Like will there will be images that I've taken that I love that will be made better by using this feature There's just something about It wasn't the photo The image that you end up with was not the photo you took and the things that are being generated to around the edges They weren't there. weren't there. It's not real. It's something that might have been there but isn't we don't in someone's imagination. I was talking to somebody about because let's imagine because the demo was in someone's front yard, right Like that that local that look you know it was these kids it was there of school If he mot it a little bit. paint something in Yeah, there's a lamp post there usually, but it's not there. Yeah. Do not look I can imagine looking at it. I mean like, that doesn't look right. Like. Will your brain accept what it's looking at? The example I got the other day was this is an old photo of my grandparents and it's the only one we got or or my grandfather and his brother 's the only one we've gotten, it's not very good. I ran it through an AI engine and now it looks good It's like, okay Were those features? there on their faces Or was that an AI approximation of what their features could be like? And are you now representing that? I got one of these. My mom's family is doing a reunion next year in Pennsylvania and They sent a photo out, a color photo out with the invitation And it's of my mom's grandparents So that doesn't exist. That color photo does not exist. So somebody used AI colorizing and the quality of the photo suggests very strongly that they also did a massive amount of AI cleanup and refinement. And the question is Depending on the quality of the original photo, it could look pretty much exactly like them or it could not And I had that thought where where I that moment I thought, Wh's to say how much of this photo was real or not? So I think it's worth pausing about it while also kind of accepting that for personal photos, and you're your own art director I'm, you know, I can see the benefit of it, but but also I think about the future and I think about like peopleople saying, oh, this is the photo I really like. and then you go back and you realize this photo is synthetic and it didn't actually happen. So let's go all the way to the into this hellscape So about image playground. I was going to make that that are That's way if you didn't Mike, I said, Wh you're negative about things and having feelings about I can't believe it. Let's talk about image playground. I can't believe it. I can't believe we're going further. Photo realalistic now The first time this came around, it was like It doesn't matter that you're making photos of your friends and family, they're just cartoons And it's like now we're going to make it look like they're holding a cake. Yeah. phot realalistic as a detective. I don't like it I don't like it It looked pretty good. I don't care. I don't look. I turn to you. And while this was going on. And I think what I said was It's very impressive. I hate it.. What can you say I don't There's nothing that I can say that I haven't already said before But I am surprised that we're still doing this I'm just surprised we're still doing this. Image Playground felt like a thing you would add into the list of things you had when you didn't have that many things. I think I think they feel like image generation is table steakakes, which I think is weird because remember there was that real heyday of Dalli and stuff like that. stable diffusion. Yeah. and I don't know like that's gone now. I feel like people don't talk about that anymore, but this is still hanging around now editing your photos. Yeah That's what it is more now. But it's like Having a tool to generate imagery, I don't like, but I'll accept it where it really gets tough for me is The thing that they tout more, which is in your photo library. Yeah, right. I'm synthesizing my friend for her birthday party. I feel like now there is they have an understanding of the features of image playgrounds, which is that you can do that But now they've plugged that into a much better model. and it's like, oh, we should have left that part behind if you're going to keep going down this road I don't like it. Yeah, I get it. I think I think they think it's table stakakes and they need to have something there and this diffusion model gives it to them along with everything that they're doing in photos. and so they're just And I think they believe My guess is they believe that some people want this And I'm just gonna give it to him. But it is do. L we know people use those tools They I don't don't like to end it. And there's a question of like Should Apple be helping in every iPhone? come these technologies? They shouldn't have to. Because there are other things that these tools do that they don't do. It'sike they're not doing everything But they're still continuing to do this Good news, Mike. o Siri AI is in beta later this year, whatever that means And thanks to the good people Brexit. You might be able to use it because it won't be in the EU or China, or China, but probably in the UK because they don't care whatever We'll find out, but they didn't they specifically called out the EU. U in China. But what they said was we do have any missing features like the European Union has. The way they phrased it was fascinating because it was like in China because bureaucracy we're working on in the EU becauseoy they're trouble, but we're working on it Interesting, right? Right? So like in the keynote? Yeah Like like cold themel, but not for you He you? Yeah. Like because they've done stuff before where they just say where it's gonna be But this was very much like All those those scoundrels in the European Union. Yeah. I mean, the headline of the press release because they did a press release about it is o, due to DMA. Siri AI delayed in EU for IiOS twenty seven. Oh iPadOS twenty seven. I haven't seen the newsroom. They're very angry. Wow, okay Yeah. So AI yeah, overall Um, Looks like it could be cool and once again, I'll see it before I'll believe it, but I guess I get to see it like this week when I install the betas. so that's fun Yeah, I'm interested. I'm very keen to put this on a device. I I may sacrifice my iPad to it. I did say I wanted to wait til I got home But who knows, mayaybe I'll get a bit crazy with it. We'll find out. Don't do it. Someone's gonna have done it and I'll be able to play of it before I leave for home. so maybe that will be enough for me. and we'll see what it's going to have. There was a couple of bits that I just wanted to just mention like that I think are interesting. Grammar checking stuff, I think is I'm keen to see how that works. I want to say everywhereof reading as you type the when you call a business and it will just check things in your email and text messages and put them on screen for you that you might need. Oh man. Yeah. Stuff like this, that's the st They really feel to me now feels like, oh actually I think they might have done it. Like this feels like these are actual examples, lots of examples Persal context and what people want? Yes. Yes. ' not making my friend look like a Okayake detective Who doesn't want that, you know? I just And also I like suggestions in messages, right? for different like little UI that pops up so you can add stuff to messages because it's checking what's in your message for you. It's seeing's on screen. Yeah, some bubs like that. There's context with that, and then also for the writing tools, which again, it's generative writing, but again, some people probably need it Um and wanted But the messages will be language and calendar. There was already sort of natural language in calendar, but I think not. Not at this level, not at this level. I'm excited about that. just you may be able to I'm currently just looking at Apple's website and just saying things to you that I'm saying. J just looking at my little notebook. I also made notes and left them in my bag. Okay. And I didn't want to reach around and get them because it would have made a lot of noise.. So now I'm just looking at the website Serum mode and camera Not sure Yeah. So my I have a my I made a prediction and connected the oa here The placement of the seri moding camera will be changed before the end of the beta cycle. Okay. because I think they've It looks like right now it's, you know, you got like the little wheel. It's the first one over from phhoto. So before any of the photo things, portrait mode, I think it's too prominent. I think it should be a button that you press, not in the little mode. That's what I think. and I reckon it will get changed. But this is interesting, right? Like it's It is There kind of feels like on screen awareness and visual intelligence so like two sides of the same coin a little bit, right? It's like it's It's just like are you looking through your camera at this thing or is this thing already on your screen? Yeah I just don't know if it needs to be in the camera app, but I just I don't not I don't know Why' you open the SirI app and have a camera button in the SRI app? I don't know. Where are these extensions? Where are these AI extensions we were promised? I't about that either This episode of Upgrade is brought to you by Factor It's been a long day and then hunger strikes There might be something healthy in your thridge but you could be making, but you want a good meal and you want it fast. 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I will say from my own experience as well, you know having a young kid, especially when not too long after Sophia came into our life. haaving options like this, you should throw them in the microwave and get a good hearty healthy meal It is essential. Like for people in your life that have young children or for people in your life that are just about to have children, FAactTA is an incredible way to give them something that they're really going to need G to factactormeals dot com slash upgrade fifty off and use the code upgrade fifty off to get fifty percent off from free daily greens per box with news subscription only while supplies last until september twenty seventh, twenty twenty six See website for details that is factor meeals. com slash upgrade fifty off and the code upgrade fifty off A thanks a factor for the support of this show and all of relay So there was one of a segment Oh yes, I think parents, we should talk about it. Yeah So they called it trust and safety. But it is overall a significant Beefing up Oh arent control pal control S spreing time and all that kind of stuff. And I say as parents because Four or five different presenters used the phrase as parents. As parents or as a parent. I my kids at home Okay, so I thought that was an important thing to do. So here's my We can get into some of the details about this Yeah. I think a lot of this is going to be seen people believe It's a lot of smart stuff, right? This is the lightest this is like a light fluffy portion of the keynote, right? Like it was the least consequential and the lowest density. So I would say it made more of an impact on me than I think you. Sure becausecause I'm looking down the barrel of this l. And I already been there you're gone. So like to me, I was like, I am so happy that they're putting a new foundation in for this. Right Be because I know how broken scre screime is terrible as a user of screenime. it's broken. It's totally broken. So doing things like having this assistant that can help you set things up and making, you know, recommendations, approving websites, putting more checkers for nudity and gore and all this kind of stuff. All of this is interesting, but I wanted to talk a little bit about the bigger picture of this. Okay What I find really interesting and is why I mentioned about the as parents, as parents and why I thought that was important is Ale is making stand They're making a stance. So this is this was going to be my question, which is Why now And why at this level of prominence this stand because that this is I didn't feel like This was the moment where we were like, oh boy, is Apple going to meet the moment in terms of trust and safety for kids. It's been because they've been like you said Screen timee's been broken for a while now. This they decided this is the moment. No they're going I think this is the moment. Okay Social media with young kids is a big problem. Right Right Governments around the world want age restrictions. Right. All these tools meet all of that Right. So they have to do it because they need to do it have to do some of this kind of stuff. Right And they should should standand out in front They're the platform vendor. they can't get away with this. So they may as well set an example and try and build tools that people should connect with. Okay it's up to them to do it. And then also as parents It is very helpful for them feel like Apple's taking care of it for them and that they're going to help guide them through The thing that I find interesting is I mean, they're say they're working with you know Pediatricss. There's a big bibli. I wonder about like, okay Why are they going to work with different bodies in different countries. So I think One of the things that we should flag here is And this is a policy thing for them is They're citing experts not governments, not regulationses, but experts which I think says something, right? They're like, we're going to implement this because this is what the science says. This is what the experts say But then also to say, but There was not making recommendations. You don't have to take their recommendations. Right. Every kid is different. Right Whereas right exactly that the parents know best. Different kids are different Um What they're not saying is And in Australia, you have to do this it's just interesting to me because no matter they do or what they say They are still making level decisions about who they are going to listen to and what features they're going to implement. Yes. And so I just find that all Very interesting where it's like, we're deciding to do this. We're deciding to do it in this way and we're going to tell you as the parent of a child. what we think they should do And I find that Interesting and also so messing. I think the approach is basically There's got to be a default. And so You set the default First off, you say it's not us It's not Apple. Yeah. Apple iss not telling you how to It's like we listen to a bunch. This is why they had symbol Di do it. I thought that was interesting. right When they went to Iouse was like health. Dctor Dei, but she's like we have looked at the research and the literature and all of that. And I think that's a part of why They had her do it And mean was I posting for a bit' nice. I was surprised. We're not telling you how to raise your kids. Yeah. What we'll said is defaults that you can change. and the defaults will be based on best research and they even said And as research changes, we can change these defaults And then step two is, but you know your kid And you have the ultimate control A what those restrictions are in your kid. So Apple, I think they have to do it that way. because there have to be defaults. And you have to, it's a service, right? to parents. Its like, I don't how to set it. And it's like, well, Apple says one hour Okay, let's start there. And if you're like, no, no, no, no, no. I laugh because they had the thing of like, also, there's this button with an infinity symbol on it. If you just want to let your kid do what the hell they want to do, which you know, we're at the airport and our flight got delayed and my kid wants to watch the videos and that's that moment where you're like, justust do let themm do because I need to live Be parents know what that's like. Yeah I certainly laugh. one. I already know what that's like Yeah Yeah. And it's only going to get better. So So yeah, I think it was a very carefully coned ide askk to buy, right? That's been a thing for a long time. as part of the family. but now they have like pprove new websites. Yeah. They have approved new contacts. Yeah. It seems like they've beefed some of this stuff. It looks way better, which again is a low bar because the old thing was really not very good. Be I was saying too, like one I'm interested to find out is how does this improve screen time for me as an adult as well? The difference it's gotten better. The difference is screen time is a feature that evolved from a period where people were saying, hey, digital well beinging Yeah, digital wellness, hey, we're using our phones too much This is evolving from an era in which there's a lot of literature And there's governments saying kids shouldn't be on social media. because I also liked that that I liked that they said I don't remember the ages, but they were like It is recommended that kids under this age do not have a personal device.teen And I was like, no, for social media, it's thirteen. Yeah, but there was They said, like personal device, person's device And I was like I'm happy you said that. Yeah. because you sell the personal devices. Right. You sell the iPads to make iPad kids. likeike that's your thing. And like and it's good because people get used to iPads and they want iPhones. So it's like, you know There is a way where you could not say that, but I respected that they said that. I think this stuff is Like I said, I really do think is very it's very dependent on who you are. There is a time where I would not have cared about this so much And I would have just said, yes, but what is this going to do for me as a screenime user. And I do still want that. but I Now you have a child. I' you know, I'm years away from even needing to consider this likeike many years Not that many It's enough, right? But I'm so I'm just happy that they've They have decided that this is an important part of the operating system. You know, they've set up a subdomain for this, right where like they have a bunch of resources available And also just for the world, I think that this is a thing that they need to do, especially around social media. about trying to help parents and kids tools to help them use these apps more responsibly I think it's really, really important and I'm happy that they're doing it evenven though it is odd to have it in a keynote like this. keynote I was al right, but I guess the keyote was soort, when I got a button and it' be done in forty five minutes aone But I like it. I like that I spent time on it. I think it's really interesting. I'm very intrigued to see what the bigger response is to this What are the articles going to be about for this? Like what are people going to say is this going to be considered a good thing, a bad thing, gone too far, not far enough It's going to be interesting. And as you say, I do like, you know, for some parents, there might be the thing of like, sorry kid, Apple says, no, I don't know what to. I don't know what to tell you. Apple says one hour a day Let' to take up with John Turners, I don't know So I thought it was cool. Was there anything else you wanted to touch on? I mean again, this is We're going to be unpacking this in the details over the next few weeks. I feel like ye So we're going, you know we're going to go, are we're to find out. We'll more to say next week because me and you have like things in our calendar that we're doing over the next couple of days, experiences that we're going to have R can talk about We'll learn a lot more. We'll know what has been rolled out to developers. There'll be all the sessions Lot of stuff now to cover On Thursday this week, you can look out for the second episode in our desesign in California preview on the Road to the Apple two.. I don't remember what this episode was about because I just finished editing the last one Is this they go to Atlantic They go to Atlantic city to not the good Atlantic city. HeC seventy six. HeC seventy six. This is eisode. US Aes,. Don't spoil it. This is a great episode. This story is amazing. Jason did a lot of great research to find out this story. So this is the Steves going to PC seventy six on a plane on a red eye to Philadelphia to go to PC seventy six in Atlantic show off the appleason. They have the app and secretly have a prototype of the Apple two up in the home see what their competition is going to be like And their competition sees what they are and laugh. This is this is a great episode. If you want to back our kickstartter campaign and help make design in California be a better and better show. because that's what we're doing. You know, we're raising a lot of money, which is amazing, but we are taking that money and turning it in better product We're going to have a full video version of the show, which is going to be as edited as the audio version. We're going to put imagery and stuff in. so if you know, you want to watch the show by video, you'll have you'll be able to go watch other options.' An another option available to you, but we' taking the incredible support that we're getting and we're going to use it in different ways and we'll be talking about that over the coming weeks. goo to design.fm and you can do that. You can send us your feedback, follow up and questions by going to upgradefeedback. com I'd like to thank our members the supporters of Upgrade Plus. This week, we're going to decide who the California Bear trophy winner is in Upgrade Plus You can find us on YouTube. There'll be a lovely YouTube version of this show, which it may a little later than usual but will be Ale has supplied us with Just a scene at MLS games and major League baseball games in aray shot on iPhones. Of iPhones Yeahes f cut camera like great. shhot on iPhes. That's us. So I would actually like to give a quick thank you to there's lots of people here right now. So many people here. And I would like to thank everyone at Apple Park who helped make this episode a reality because otherwise I do not know how we would have made an episode today I want to thank our sponsors again, Keepper Squarespace and factactor. Until next time, Jason Snow, sayay goodby Goodbye, curly