Hardware Requirements and Future Canaries

From Relay, this is Ugrade episode six hundred and twenty two. This show is brought to you by Sentry, Dekagon, and ExpressVPN. My name is Mike Hurley and I amm joined by Jason Snll. Hi Jason Hello from the great state of Oregon. Hello. So you're still traveling. I'm back in Mega Studio Something I found very funny so we were very kindly hosted by Apple last week. Multiple people said that they didn't know it was me starting the show on Monday which I found fascinating. My throat was a little sore because we'd been kind of out the night before like a restaurant Bob mix a thing. And I guess different It was very loud. Yeah, was very loud. As you noted we had weird posture in the chairs because we're not sitting up straight in our usual office chairs they're more like lounge chairs. and I wasn't using my regular microphone. And I don't like how I sound on any mic other than the one that I use, but it's definitely me today. It's definitely me. So thank you to. It's you official Mic O G Mhm Super helpful to actually have that studio to record in rather than trying to work out whate every on ear would do. So ye Yeah, for sure We got out hours and hours earlier than we would have. So ye So very appreciative of that. But I have a snow talkal question for you, Jason. And it comes from Joey and Joey wants to know, are you watching the World Cup I am I am watching the World Cup as much as I can because, you know, we've been busy. This has been a busy time for all of us. But yes I watched u I watch the World Cup. I actually didn't watch the US match because I was in a car driving to Oregon. but I watched most of U there are four matches, I think on Saturday and I watch most of those and But you know we're up here for my son's graduation from college, so there's a lot of other stuff going on that is going to preclude it. But yes, I try to catch World Cup action when I can. my answer. and I can report this. I don't know, it's not exclusively, but I can report this here that When we when we speak again, I will have been to a World Cup match because I'm going on Friday Which one is a which It is it's a real showdown with two teams that are hungry because they lost their first group stage matches. It's Turkey. versus Paraguay. Classic matchup. Oh, those are two countries that don't like each other. I think theyare like a long rivalry that one is it a bit of a Jobby there man. to story fight Turks against the fighting Ge. Yes, the Gays. Yep. That's cool though to go to a World Cup match whereas abbsolutely where in San Francisco. I don't have to go far from home. I can just go down and see uh from presumably the last row at the upper deck. I think it's the cheapest worst seats that still cost a fortune. If there's empty seats, they'll move down It's u Interesting. I noted this to Adini yesterday that I am a I know that the World Cup is happening but I don't feel I don't feel it the way that I normally do. I feel like usually feel the effect of the World Cup happening in and around my life more than I'm feeling it right now. She did note to me that maybe it's just like the NBA is sucking up all the discourse on the internet, but that's now over so maybe the worldld Cp can take over Yeah, it's just getting started. mean the World Cup is even longer than the Olympics. It is a long long, long run of a month Unfortunately So because they make it bigger and bigger every time So we've got there's time for it to gain momentum. Be as we know, Jason, the world keeps getting bigger ysically L a balloon and it just keeps getting expanded in all sorts of ways. So you've got to increase the time mean I think this time logistically it's maybe a bit more complicated than your typical world Right? Be you're moving over all over that continent of yours. Also We have to say Because you know, we said what it's a busy time What time is it? What time Of year is it now, Mike? I think is it? Mind Jason it is the summer Summer. He welcome to the Summer of Fun, everybody. Officially inaugurated the Summer of Fun. Thank you to Joe for that snow Talk question. It is the summer of funun. What does the summer of Fun means? It means? it's time for us to have fun in the summer. That's what it means. And here we are're doing it. So this goes back, I don't know, long, long time in the show Where essentially during the summer months, we realized there was no news. This has changed over time and there's just much more news in the summer now than they used to be. thingsings are still happening. So often in the summer, we have to come up with topics and special kind of evergreen and one off episodes to kind of help us continue to produce the show every weekend for it to be the best that it can be So we crown this entire period, summer of fun. Summer of fun runs from the week after WWDC to the week before the iPhone draft, which seems when you say it like that, like a really long way away. it ain't a long way away. No no, it happens real fast. The I would say it's not just the lack of news because there, you know, there is news and we will cover it, but also the other thing that happens is is scheduling issues in the summer because people are traveling. So like you and I had a had a while I was driving up here actually, we had a back and forth about travel you' try to look that one out. Yeah. It was Yeah, we had to we had to like it's like we swap this over here and then do this here and pre record this. But one of the things that happens for us to do those episodes, sometometimes there are our guests And that can be fun depending on who the guest is. But also it is a time where we sometimes do a pre record where we will record maybe a week early att which point, you know, there's no who knows way to do it to be newsy and it has to be something fun and evergreen so that we can hang on to it and run it late because one of us is traveling Like even today we're prerecording a day early A day early. That's true. That's true. But there was because I'm going back, there was no other time to record it So because I was traveling up here and then I'm traveling back. And so it pretty much had to be today because my son's graduation is literally at the time of upgrade So congratulations to Julian O graduation That's why we're repoting a Dale We have some follow up Jason Snow Joseph wrote in and said Jason mentioned on six cols that he took notes in a traditional reporter's notebook at WWE this year. I'm curious why he chose that over a laptop, how well it worked in practice and whether he'd do it again. Given his famously fast typing speed, I was surprised. Is he secretly a shorthand expert too I am not a shorthand expert. I'm terrible at handwriting I don't know. I I thought I would try it I thought So there's a thought process here, which is like Sitting and typing in notes feel like I can do it and I end up with a document that can be Um, turned into what I referenced during the podcast we do about the event I can certainly type more things I'm not sure typing more things is Oh Whereas when I was doing it on pen and paper I had to write fewer things, right? I had to write fewer things because there were just there's no way I was going to get more down on paper. And so I had to kind of pick my spots and also do the thing where like something happens and you you do a circle around it or you underline it or like put an arrow next to it and say this is actually really interesting. And I've done this throughout my career, but you know it has become more common to to just sit there with a laptop And I just I thought maybe this time I would try that out to not A. note it and see if I could do the pen and notebook thing. I, you know, again, it was more of an experiment than anything else, although I'm pretty happy with it It's different because I don't have that notes document that I can refer back to directly. inststead, like I was writing my story about this, which I called empty the notebook because I got to literally empty the notebook. And You know, I was writing it and I had to go get the notebook and bring it out because like, iCloud doesn't sync the pages of the notebook guess I could scan them or something. But I just flipped through the notebook. and did it that way. And I think it worked fine. I'm not, you know I'm not ready to exto the virtues of one over the other. They're different, but I think it was a pretty good experiment. I didn't mind it. It I'm sure I missed some stuff. I also um kind of was forced to choose the stuff that I found was most interesting peeped that you were using the field nototes front page. I think you were even using the original one or they ended up producing it as a regular product. But you were using their one like, which is a traditional reporter's notebook. like the repter is long It's veryy, reported a snotbook. Yeah, with little fold on on the cover and all of that. I was I like that. I have a bunch of field notes and you were using your own brand, which I also have, which I thought about I thought about, but I've got these reporter's notbooks. I bought a three pack of them. I figure I should use them because that's what they're for Um you want to promote your Your notepad? Yeah, I was using the sidekick pocket. So basically, I brought my notebook and I also brought my laptop. And I wasn't going to take laptop notes. No that's what I do when I am at home, watching any Apple event. I will take sure notes in Apple Nes When I'm at Apple Park, I want to kind of soak in the feeling of being there a little bit more and sitting there with a laptop is not is not what I want to do. There was somebody in front of me who was continually taking photos with their iPad, which was really annoying throughout the entire presentation. But you know, that's just how some people do these things. Yeah. And I wasn't sure if I was going to take any notes at all, but I was sitting next to you and John Grubber and you both pulled out your notebooks and I was like, you know what? I'm going to do it. So I took a bunch of notes and I referenced this very quickly on the recording. I then left my notebook in my bag and put my bag behind my chair while we were recording the last episode. and I didn't want to get up because I was gonna have to move on the microphone and everything. And so I ended up then just not having the notes. But as field notes say, I don't write things down to remember them later I write them down to remember them now. and I do agree with that process that sitting and making a note about something actually kind of enforces it in your brain a little bit more it's definitely a different process. And I find value in both there's the, you know, as with everything in our world, there's this big narrative about like, oh, you should never take notes on computers and, you know, you should only use handwriting or back and forth. it's like, I don't look They're just different. They're just different. they have different uses, they have different values. they're both equally valid. I'll shout out also I mean, Grouper is a great example because He I've always said publicly that I I'm fascinated by his choice because it says, I'm here, I'm not here to break news. I'm here to think and analyze and ponder And I've always admired that, but there was a long stretch in my career where I was there to cover the breaking news. feed things out to people and all of that I don't need to do that. I can do it in a notebook now. And so I did it. And also I will shout out stududio Neat because I used the their Mark two with clip So it's a really nice pen with a clip. That's small that can clip to the little rings inside the reporter's notebook. and then pull it out and magnetically attach it and it's Very great him So we mentioned there's a couple little bits I wanted to talk about. So we mentioned in the keynote that Apple showed some tools for letting you dynamically resize your apps to different windows sizes. this' got a particular shout out. Obvious what that's going to be for, which is for the folding iPhonone. so they want you to kind of start getting ready to have your iPhone apps being able to be shown in different sizes It turns out that one of the things coming to MacOS Golden Gate is the ability to also resize iPhone mirroring windows. And so like this is the thing you can do now in Golden Gate. like some of abs think the weather app is one of them where you can just stretch it out So that is actually a nice thing you can do to test this, I think if you want to test it. but I've already seen some developers kind of playing around with these new tools in Xcode and kind of like stretching their app UIs out a little bit. So I think it's good that they're providing some of this stuff now rather than providing it in September, which is definitely a thing they could do, but you know would just be like, hey, and now there's also for developers to get ready for this phone and you've got three weeks, at least this way people can start to get The basics of what their UI might want to be so they can be available for the falling iPhone on day one Exactly. makes sense to do it now and they have multiple ways that they can expose this without saying, hey, everybody, we're doing a folding phone And iPhone mirroring is one of them. and you're supposedly, I haven't done it. You should be able to resize iPhone app windows in iPad OS too. So Yeahah, that is yeah, that's that's a feature in iPad. Yeah. So ye. So that's whether it's in the beta or not I don't know that one, I haven't I'm not on the iPad beta. We're going to talk about betas in a minute. But But yeah, it's it's this is the classic Apple thing, right? This is where you look and you say, ah, Apple is prepping without actually saying that they're prepping, but we all know that they're prepping. for the folding phone. And I, you know, I always love it when we see that. The other one Did we mention this last week? I'm not sure, but they also are adding support for higher resolution and better capabilities for Uh, for webcams that use the Homekit secure video. Yeah and I had somebody point out to me F K up to four K support now. Yeah. and somebody pointed out to me that would be a good feature to have if Apple' going to do a webcam, which is again rumored Do you mean like a home camera? home not a webcamer?m sorry, not we cam. a home secure security camera or or a doorbet cam And that is a rumored product. And it's just like, yeah, I don't think Apple put that in there just for a car's sake, right? Be it's years and years and years that they should have done this. No, I know that this is the the year of like It's you know, performance updates or whatever. but that feels like something a little bit different because it's like This is also for third parties to use. So yeah, that makes a lot of sense, I think't think consid of that. Those are the two games we play Those are two games we play at WWDC. One is what features are layanding ground were for products that we know that are coming that Apple is not going to announce? And the other game is what longstanding features got improved because Apple needed them to be improved or other features that they're doing, which there was a lot of this year because they needed to update spotlight and shortcuts and all sorts of stuff so that their features could use those things better, even though we've been asking for those things for a long time number one customer of Apple is Apple. Other parts of Apple, then sometimes they can get them. notot all the time. sometometimes they can't. No, but sometimes they can't. No, they're like, o, hey app store, we want to do this this sweet and the A store is like, sorry, No. can'tot be done. But but sppotlight, we need you to red the spotlight.'re like yeah ye, ye, okay.'ll One of the stories leading up to WWBC was wondering what Apple's developer story for AI would be And you know, one of the things is that the foundation models now are significantly better than the foundation models that they're replacing But there was also private cloud compute. likeike what was going to happen in private cloud compute? And there is a developer story. So Apple has made private clloud compute available to developers. However If you as a developer, have any app in your account that has amassed more than two million downloads, you cannot use private Cloud compompute at all Apple have announced No way around this even for money yet. Now it would it would feel to me Like so I'll put a piece from Durren Fireball about this. John kind of breaks it down It feels to me like they just haven't got their ducks in a row with exactly how to charge yet Yeah because it This makes no sense to me for them not to charge for this either that they don't have their ducks in a row for charging or that they are deathly afraid of how much Um compute, they're going to to need and that there until they get a really better gauge on what that looks like. They're reluctant to open the gates wide to popular apps basically. But yeah, I agree. the most logical thing here is to treat this like weather kit and say you paper use. as a developer, you paper use and do it that way. That makes complete sense. It's like you want to use our AI infrastructure. It's an API just like any other AI infrastructure And maybe it's competitive. It's Apple only. I like I don't know because there are others out there. Um And so developers wing, why did they want to use this one? It's like, well, because it's from Apple. Is it because they thought it would be cheap or free becausecause you know, Apple can't do that. Apple can't play that game. So Apple's trying to navigate this a little bit. But I agree it would be kind of nice if developers of Apple only apps especially had access to that. for in a way that it's easier, but also that they can compensate Apple for use. unreasonable If you're a developer, you be in you you can kind of feel comfortable that from the privacy perspective, right? and that there are API tools, the system thatue look into like there are a lot of benefits a lot of private cloud computer.. So I really hope that they do. like I really hope that there is a story I imagine that they will. It's just a matter of when So Jason, we are halfway through the Kickstarter campaign for our new podcast designed in California that will launch later this year. So I wanted to just touch on a couple of bits and actually answer some frequently asked questions. that we've been getting. Ques. Yeah.'re we're gonna quue some A's. I always want to say Q some F's, but that's not right. We're not gonna question some frequently. We're gonna A some Qs. There you go. We're not gonna question some answers either. You provide the Quess, we provide the A's So as of recording, we're over one hundred seventy thousand dollars raised. and once we get to one hundred seventy five, we're going to have more more music for the show. We're looking forward to showing off the artwork that we're working on, but that's still very much under work right now Yeah And then we mentioned this a little bit already, but if we hit two hundred thousand, we're going to commit to two live events, one in San Francisco, one in London, what we say framework of live event TBA. We're not exactly sure what they will be yet, We will do something in both cities which are excited about. I wanted to just reference the bonus episode well I would say bonus episodes that we're putting out on the show so far. People seem to really be enjoying them. So thank you so much to everybody that is listening to them. The last episode, so the one that came out last week was about Jobs and Wasny act Traveling to the computer show PC seventy six and the beginnings of the breakdown of their relationship which unbelievably happened before the Apple two even came to be. Yeah. And then in our next episode, the one that's coming out this Thursday. We're going to dig into exactly what the Apple two is, like functionally, how Wz put it together and then how all of the other components that were needed to bring that computer to the market. That's a really good one. The last two are my favorite of the four The episode three is the one where And this is I had somebody ask me like, well, you know, you're doing all the writing.ike What's Mike there for? What somebody to talk to. He's producing He's doing a lot of behind the scenes work as well. But one of the important parts of the show is us having a back and forth. I mean, you helped me get to a really interesting point at the end of episode three about how The Apple two is the first glimpse I think of what we've come to think of as Steve Jobs. L. M That's Steve Jobs doing Steve Jobs stuff right there in with Apple's second product Graham asked, Will desesign in California have video versions? I see that you've been doing them so far, but I wasn't sure if it's just because they're episodes of upgrade Yeah, we actually invisibly passed our video stretch goal, which was at one hundred fifty and we couldn't post it in time that we went over one hundred fifty. But yes, we are going to do video episodes. What you've been seeing in the upgrade feed on YouTube Those are being produced in the same method that we produce upgrade, which is They're not tied to the audio edit. They're simpler edits because we're editing it separately based on the same notes. And so it's not as tightly edited. it's not the I would say it's not the finished design in California product, but as a video version on YouTube as a sample, you know we're both okay with it. But the answer is yes, we are going to do it. We're going to use a different workflow that we've been working on We're not one hundred percent sure where all it's going to go. There's a lot of complexity there about. Yeah Is it going to be on YouTube? Is it going to be a member version? Are we going to put it on Spotify? Are we going to make it you know a video version Apple podcasts? How do we get all of that stuff connected? And there's a bunch of technical challenges. The beauty of this is because it's a kickstarter, we could say we're going to do it. and then, you know, we've got until the show launches to figure out exactly how we're going to do it, But we are going to do it. We figured out how to do it. I have a proof of concept of episode two. that we looked at this week that matches It matches the audio edit perfectly, which is that was the big question is could we do that And there was way to be watchable And would it be watchable, which I think it very much is. So. So now we're constructing a plan. and yes, I hope that Part of that will actually be that it will be more so that the video version will have, like if we're referencing products or events and there are photos that which is not something we have time for with upgrade because upgrade is all about being timely. And I had somebody sort of Snidey comment that if we really wanted our YouTube version of upgrade to be better, it would have a bunch of annotations and photos and stuff like Upgrade the goal is to get it out as fast as possible because it's timely. That's the goal. Design in California, we're going to have a multi week production process and part of that process is going be making the video And we are hoping to do way more in terms of seeing if we can get imagery in there. But again, I will also emphasize, we are treating it as an audio podcast first and foremost, and that's how the edit starts We will add, I would say image annotation for the video version. I actually think that will enhance the audio version as well because if we're going to do all that image research and license images and do whatever we need to do, we'll probably pop those in to the show notes or even to the chapter art for the audio podcast as well. So that's all because we passed one hundred fifty, a stretch goal. we didn't even get timees to announce. So yes, is the answer. We are going to do video Details to come Yeah, this has been one of the great things, I'd say one of the hidden great things like for us of doing this kickstarter campaign. is that You know, really we did this because we wanted to see if there was an audience for the show. And it turns out that there is one And that audience is very happy to pay for it And so as we've been raising more money, we're able to commit to more complicated things because we can So when the show launches is going to be so much better than if we would have launched it on its own at the bare bones we picked a bare bones figure. was like this will allow us to do the show. but at I would say at its most basic level. and we're not talking about adding a lot of frills here. It's like Oh, we have a little room to breathe to do things like Get images and, you know, if it's a get images image or something, you know, license the image so we're not ripping off images or you know, like I don't want to make those choices. We can do that. We can we can have the ability to say, we're going to do this and we're going to do it right in a bunch of different ways that are again, it's a little bit, it's almost invisibly making the show better, which we always would have done if we had been capable of it But now we know we are capable of it and that's just a really good, good feeling to have Rob asks will it be possible to buy membership to design in California after the Kickstarter has ended Yes. So we're discounting it right now. So the kickstartter campaign, you can get a membership for sixty dollars for a year It will become seventy dollars for a year once the show begins. And willll be a little bit before then. we're going to kind of like get the feed ready. this is I'll talk about that in a second actually because someone has question about that. But yes, you will be able to buy will you have regular relay shop, right Yeah, it'll be a relay show and those are seventy dollars a year. And we do monthly for that. So you could actually get it monthly if you wanted to would pay even more. But if you want to save, the kickstarter is the way to save because you can get it for sixty per a year And Sam asks if it would be poss it would be awesome if you were to include the origin of Apple episode of upgrade in the designed in California feed for continuity. when it launches. way ahead of Yri Ram. The plan from the beginning has been, we are going to launch design a designed in California feed, not designed by California. Yeah. desesigned in California. Yeah, that's Stehen called it unconnected. The California voted and they said, yes, design it The the plan always has been We actually had Jim Metetszendorf, our editor hold on to the Apple at fifty edits and we're going to generate a design in California Now I'm going to say designed by California. Jim's going to generate a design in California version of Apple at fifty that will be episode zero, basically. And then the ones that we've been putting in the feed this month will be episodes one, two, three, four and we'll go from there. So yeah, we're going to preload before the episodes that you haven't heard launch, we will preload that feed with Apple at fifty and the four parts of the rise of the Apple two. So when when the feed goes out, it'll already have that extra long episode and the four episodes that we've been putting in the upgrade feed. So there'll be a complete designed in California RSS feed for members and for the general public with the free version. And that will all be available a few weeks before the show begins. Yeah. So we'll prime the pump. We' have We'll have that out there before we start dropping brand new episodes, which we somebody asked me about that and I'm like You know, I think we would like to start doing that maybe beginning of September, but we'll see. But I think that's the plan right now Yeah, because we want to obvious we have to start the production process for the next set. We both also have some travel coming up. So we're trying not to rush it as such. We want to to we want to, you know, essentially we have to launch the show again as well. So there is a benefit in us stopping talking about it for a little while because we have because we then need to launch the show to everyone for free. Yeah. And so that will give us some space to do that. But once we're started, we're in the flow. but at the moment, we're kind of estimating a ten week probably production process for each episode. but once it's going, it's kind of going. I've been thinking more like seven or eight weeks, but yeah, it's going be Is that including your writing them Okay. so there you go. Yeah, I think so. I think I think weeks seven and eight are my writing weeks.. But yeah, this is a U. It's the opposite of upgrade, which is so We're trying to be as timely as possible. it means we have time to build a whole production process, which will be interesting. It reminds me of magazines back in my magazine days, because really're gonna we're moving cards across a Can band board and they're going to be episodes in different stages of production. But that's the way to do it.. And that's that's you know we had the luxury, which we generally, you and I never have Oh having a building a production process that includes me writing a script and you giving notes and other people giving notes. And then me finishing the script and then we do a record and then there's like the edit pass and then there's another edit pass. and like we got we got time to build the show up. Also keeping in mind that when we release, if we do a four episode block about something The release date is not episode one and then a week later episode two and then a week later episode three because all of those will drop for members right at once. Yes. That's our deadline. So we have to have all four episodes ready on that day. So we have to build that into a process. actually I'm really excited about it because this is a different kind of structure. I've name All the other podcasts I do It's great to this degree. I mean, Cortex has a pretty chunky production timeline. It's nowhere There be more people involved with this one. Absolutely for sure. in a good way But also like, you know, you're saying like a magazine. And Also there will be a lot of movement too. Like I had the thought the other day that You know, maybe we would work on a one shot of Snow Leopard R that we would want to put in like because snow Leopard's on everybody's lips right now. We're going to talk about it in a minute. So like there's also that kind of feeling too. like we may be in production of a series, but like, you know what? Let's actually going puse this time a timely end. Yeah. So that kind of stuff absolutely available to us. I'm excited about that process. So if you want to go and support the campaign, you still can, you still can for the next couple of weeks. please go to designed.fm. You can check it out. We have so many tiers. cheheck them out and we're excited to share more of you over the next couple of weeks And look in the show notes if you're an upgrade plus member for spepecial links that'll let you save some money. Yeah This episode is brought to you by our friends over at Century Building with AI is exciting until something breaks and then you have no idea why that happened. Wh LLM call failed, whichich tool timed out How much did that agent run truly cost? Centurry, that SEN TRY gives you full visibility into your AI features. agent runs, LM calls, tool executions, tokening usage and cost. And the key thing, it's all in the same place that you're already monitoring your application Y AI observability sits right alongside your errors, traces, logs and replays, everythingthing connected, no context switching. It works with open AI agents, Verl AI, Lang chain, and more, a few lines of code and you are in I think that this is very clever from Century because I know so many developers are using these tools right now and it can provide them with added kind of availability and ability to be able to get their work done But when' leting something else into your code, it can introduce more issues, which is exactly not what you want. So I think it's amazing that Centry will allow you to pull these tools in and then also observe them alongside all of the other stuff that Centry's giving you about bugs, about issues, about crashes, things that are slowing, your apps down, which are making it greatreat for your users and everybody knows, like I know, you want your app to run well, smoothly and first time for everybody that uses it. It's exactly what Sentry helps you to do Millions of developers use Sentry, including your favorite companies, AI and otherwise. Try it free at SENty. io and tell them that we sent you. They have a free dev plan and listeners of this show can use the code Ugrade twenty six to get one hundred dollars hundred in Senturry credits if you're a new user. thanks to Centry for their support of this show and relay So I wanted to kind of Relect a little bit on last week. you know, we've had a week now to think more about WWC. We've both had briefings and presentations. We've both read and heard many more thoughts now and had conversations while in California. You mentioned that you wrote your piece where you emptied the notebook So I wanted to kind of see where are you what are you feeling right now about what we saw last week? You know, it's It's so weird, right? Be it is I keep coming back to like it's like sand running through your fingers that there's like the big picture issue which is so big. in fact, sometimes that I think that because of all the drama about Apple intntelligence, we've missed some of the big picture. And then and then there's all the little things which are Um a challenge that is the sand running through your fingers. Adam Agst at Tidbitits wrote a piece where he actually like tried to Very intelligently catalog all the things that are in that big slide Yeah And it's like and I really When the public betata comes out, I'll get a PDF from Apple PR of like Here's what the new features are I'm wondering how I do not ennvy the person who has to put that together because there's so many things that are little And they're all important or potentially very important to Um How do you get your hands around them? Be it's just like this is better and this is better and this is better and trying to find trends and all that big picture that I keep coming back to that I just want to remind people like we don't know It's it's early. There's a lot more to be done But It's not just Apple makes good on their promise of two years ago, which I think is part of this And it's funny becausecause it's also Apple not changing its AI, right? Like the way it described its approach to AI hasn't changed in two years. It's just that they got a model that actually works and they replaced all of Siri with, you know, Mike Rockwell said in that post keynote thing. that's one to me, that's the quote of of the week was We tore Siri down to the ground and rebuilt it a year ago because it wasn't it just didn't do it good enough. Itmost felt like he was excited to say it. Oh he was super. We know the backstory there, right? which is according to Mark German, that like Rockwell thought that The serory was going to be a cornerstone of Vision OS It couldn't be because it just was bad And that's what that's that's the bigger picture that I wanted to say is Just step back for a second and say, how long has it been that we've all been talking about how Apple needs to do a new Siri because Siri is bad. Apple needs to fix Siri, do a new Siri, whatever it is. This isn't just about kind of like making good on the Apple Intelligence promises from two years ago. It is literally If they did it right, like they did it everybody. They did a new series That is good or at least certainly the bar is so low. It certainly is viable And that's amazing. Unto itself, that part of it is amazing if it's true because we've been waiting for that a lot longer than two years, right? That's been, you know, ten years, eight years that we've been all sort of like looking at our watches and waiting for a new series to appear. So I think that That's one of the things that stuck with me is is, uh likeike it really is not just Apple intntelligence. It's Imagine a serory that works for you Yeah, I was thinkinking it was on the Verge cast David on the I said If Apple two years ago would have said, this is our plan. We're going to rebuild Siri. It's going to dig into your personal contacts, your messages, your emails, but it's going to take us two years to do it I think we would have been like, huh Okay, though that sounds really good. you know. it's like this's essentially what they did about meaning to, right? And it's like it's going they had an idea. They're now executing on that idea. But it took two years of work to get to this point talalking about Mike Rockwell saying that somewhat gleefully. I mean You could really make the argument that it was Apple's complete failure in twenty twenty four that gave him the latitude to say what they've never, I think been able to say before, which is always like, let's patch Sira, let's fix Sya, let's change this part of Syiri. Yeah. because they so abjectly failed two years ago, it let Rockwell say teear it all down You know, tear it all down. Si just can't can't be saved as it is. We need to tear it down completely. He had the ability to do that a year ago, right? becausecause it's like They can't get it wrong. And they already, you know, they already blew it in twenty four and had to skip it in twenty five. So it's like, okay, let's just make sure that in twenty six we are there with a new thing. And you know I'm reminded of like when they redid the Bay Bridge, like they said, well, we can fix the Bay Bridge in six months if we shut down the Bay Bridge for six months. But We need the bridge to remain open. like construction projects are way more complicated when you can't just knock down the old thing and build a new thing. You've got to keep the new the old thing there while you build the new thing next to it and then figure out a way to move them switch from one to the other. It's like that is way harder. Well Rockwell had the latitude because it got so bad just knock down Siri. I mean, I know it's still running, but it's this is the metaphor is he didn't he didn't have to sort of like make piecemeal improvements to the existing Siri. He got to just tear it down to the studs or down to the ground. He said, Tar it down to the ground. I think that's a so it's a They should have done that. Obviously they should have done it before, but it does seem like this was the final straw where he finally got the ability to say, let's just rip it up part. and good for him One of the things that I thought was really interesting from the article that you wrote kind of when talking about Apple's AI ambitions is saying that you would like to see them have more throughout the twenty seven cycle, like new features. Yeah I was, um I was talking to Ina Fried from Axos as we were walking up to the Steve Jobs Theater and she was saying how She's not like Both of us were agreeing that like the question is like is Apple cut out for the AI Past And I just kept thinking about that that I think their challenges, the culturally Apple has for a long time been on this annual cycle And I think one of the reasons for it is because of the gravity of the iPhone, right? Just like They got into a groove where like the iPhone comes out every fall The OS versions need to come out for the iPhone because the new iPhone runs the new OS version because it's got new features in it that the new iPhone needs. It's like, okay, fair enough So they get on this annual pace because it used to be like MacOS came out kind of randomly Right? Like every, you know year and a half or whatever So okay. The problem is AI doesn't move like that. AI moves faster than that. And even if you say, well, we're going to we've got a year's worth of work that we're going to work on over the next year But six months in, there's a trend in AI and you need to Ajust, right And since Apple since twenty twenty four happened, has been, I think, more focused on annoucing features at WW that ship in the fall, ship by the end of the year because they don't want to make that mistake again of over promising things that are too far out. I think it actually gives them an opportunity to Think about what's coming in the spring and adjust based on what they see in the AI world Is there a new thing we should be doing or that we're going to get behind on? Because the judgments they made, I don't know, in January about what was going to be in twenty seven may not be judgments they would make in September about what was going to be in twenty seven point three twenty seven point four And so that's That's why like and, you know, the twenty six cycle added some stuff in the spring. The iPhone is no longer going to be released at one time as far as we can tell. It's going to be released in two blobs. There are lots of things pointing toward the idea that Apple can spread their cycle out a lot more and have it be okay. And I think that's good because I think Apple needs to have a the flexibility to sense the trends in AI and adjust their strategy for the second half of the twenty seven cycle instead of setting it and then not touching it for a year, which is I think what Apple was very comfortable doing in the twenty four and before era Yeah, and You know, you referenced about the speed. I don't think Apple is going to work at the speed of AI companies, nor should they really, but there should be more than just once a year because They should be developing their technology more quickly And to maybe a stuff that they're working on and they decide to prioritize something otherwise was going to wait for the next cycle and they're like, no actually this is the time to do it. that strike when the iron is hot. The idea. yeah, they're not going to be like super nimble And they don't need to be, but they need to have the ability, like I said, if there's a trend in AI and there's a project they're working on and they have a moment where they're like, actually this is kind of becoming big. Like open cllaw as an example.. And that's and that's something that there's not a lot of aentic stuff in the twenty seven announcements If I were them I would think, okay We can't get a lot more agentic stuff or more help for people who are running things like open cllaw in twenty seven point zero. So we're not going to announce it But maybe there's a decision that's made in the spring sometime of this year that says that actually needs to be a higher priority. We were going to wait for twenty eight. let's bring it up to twenty seven point three point four and do it in the spring. That's the kind of stuff I'm talking about. I'm not talking about You know, drop everything and we're going to ship a feature in a month more like keep your eyes on the horizon, see what's going on, and don't make it a cycle where you don't have the ability to you steer the ship a little bit. Mid cycle in a way that maybe you didn't plan. Like that's I think that's what they need to do.. They don't need to be at the pace of AI, but they need to get used to Um making those decisions and phasing in features that were not There should be something in twenty seven twenty seven point four that they didn't think was going to be in the twenty seventven cycle. that they moved it up because it felt like they needed to do that. Because also they should be continually improving their models and those should bring with them improvements on new features, that capabilities that are now available. And even something like making a big deal out of improving the Apple intntelligence model in May. because now it can enable you to produce better images. You can do more with your photo edits. You can, you know, Jen Moji is better. theseese things should be able and they can talk about those even if they want to hold big features for WWBC. You can still they should still be making banging the drum for what they're doing And I'll say this, you know, we'll talk about it in much more detail later They should be doing this because Syria AI is really good. Like I think it's really good So they should continue to keep making it better all the time, which is one of the reasons why I thought that they would have an app in the app store because it would give them kind of the ability to be nimble with just that component But it seems like you were pointing this out, you're completely right. It's embedded so deeply into the operating system.mot actually sure that that's really feasible But also there's so much stuff that's on the server as well, right? So they they can be continually making improve course the whole thing K kind of parking AI for a moment. I want to kind of talk about the snow leopard of it all Soes, I was in a briefing, I think you had a similar briefing An apple brought up the word snow Leopard before anybody else in my room could do it. Snow Lopard and Iow alwaysve there's like I think of this is a snow Leopard in Iow twelve kind of situation. I'm like, yeah, okay It's like we were all thinking about it. It's also funny It's like, I didn't remember IOS twelve was that. L I didn't it wasn't in my memory that IOS twelve performance improvement year. And so I start looking through Wikipedia today. and IOS twelve did actually have a lot of features they weren't huge with a lot of features, but it reminded me of how terrible IOS eleven was and that was why do this because IOS eleven was rough Yeah, yeah. this is um And snow Leopard I actually got I found Stephven Hackett in two thousand nine linked to my story about Snow Leopard at Mac World My review the Mac World review was gone off the web. So I actually asked it was in the CMS and it just didn't. So I asked my editor at Macworld to put it back live, which he did, which is great This even updated story from two thousand nine, which is great. And I was able to link to that Snow Leopard review in a couple of places And that was so long ago now. It was back when Apple charged for software updates. I had to give buying advice about like, is it worth it to pay for Snow Leopard? What Um It was famously a very much this release in the sense that people O time started to refer to it as no new features, but there's loads of new features in Snow Leopard. It's just they're all little They're all little, new featuures, hundreds of little changes and fixes and stuff And it's good. it's good to have a year like that. I think I was thinking about this from the standpoint of how ourur reaction to twenty seven announcements explains why. get bug fix updates And actually, I thought Joanna Stern who was on the talk show Tuesday night The latest the live on stage version of the talk show with John Grrouber. She was on there with Neili Patell Um I think she said it best because she said It was boring. The keynote was boring And then she said like, but in a good way And that I think That shows you what the difficulty is with doing a bug fixes and improvements update is that it's hard to describe what they are because there's a bunch of little things and they're not that interesting mostly It's the sand running through your fingers And a barrage of like little things is super boring because they're all just these little random things. And that's why that segment was only fifteen minutes long. is because it was actually incredibly meaningful and will drive huge amounts of improvements in the lives of people who use Apple's platforms. But as a stage production, it was a snooze. And here this is why I'm saying we are our own worst enemies. because We look at the thing we get the thing we've been asking for, which is please slow down and just make things run faster and work better. And then when Apple does that, we shout boring because we want to be excited., I didn't think it was boring. But I agree with what you're saying that like it's hard to market it. It's hard to market Little bit flashy one. So I actually asked about like along these lines, right? Like My assumption was one of the reasons they could do this was because they had the AI stuff, right? so they could You know, say look over here while they're doing some other stuff. But there was a tent poll feature. It was AI and Siri AI. But it's not the platform stuff, right? you can see how a lot of that is kind of like on top or like this thing going on in the back. And's like I was I was what I wanted to try and understand. if I was really surprised about all of the this is faster, this is faster, this is faster. so many things faster. And so it's like, well Did something happen that allowed things to go faster Or was it just because people were allowed to do it? And the sense that I got was, even though they have things like the CPU schedule that helps a lot of things in a lot of places The impression I got was that so many of these games were possible. because the engineers were given the freedom to tackle them. And so they people like if you can make something faster Make it faster And that was they were allowed to do it rather than hey, you need to create an IiMessage app store or you need to add writing tools to raages or whatever. Right. And so when you give them you know, when it's like, hey We're going We're going to do a snow leapon on this gang and everyone's like, great now let me go and fix these fifty things that I've been wanting to fix They know those things are there, but they're too busy. And this is I do think having a few ten pole features allows everybody else It's time to look at everything else and figured it out. and I think that's good. And I think you should do it maybe not every time M of that every time would be great, but certainly every so often What you do is you say, We still have a huge thing or two. and then also this is a year where we're going to you know make everything faster and better and fix bugs and stuff. And I think that's I think it's good. But I just I'm reminded that this is the This is why companies are driven to do tent pole features and not prioritize things like performance and bug fixes is because They're hard to market. They're hard to get your users excited about And you know, it's a little bit of us taking our medicine, but like It's going to be great, right? It's going to it's already the reports about deeveloper beta one are very positive I was thinking about the fact that Of course, developer beta one is stable stability was a feature that they focused So they' been stable Yes for months now They should as stable as any beta one could have possibly been, right? becausecause the whole point of the operating system is stability. So stability. You should be even in your least stable state, you should still be stable. You would have exactly. Exactly. I had like two big picture thoughts that I wanted to share One, like when thinking about everythingverything from the weight I feel like Apple has some confidence about it right now So you know in that the keynot was slim, they focused on what they wanted to focus on. They could have spent more time talking about the platform improvements if they wanted to because there's so many of them. They could have made a few more of these things feel like features. They could have done some demos of some stuff and like you know if they wanted to kind of make the keynote longer. but I think they really wanted to just do what they wanted to do and keep it as like slim as possible The operating system quality is at a level that they really want to shout about, right? Like I got that sense talking to people at Apple last week. They are very proud of the system also the systems right now and they seem excited about it. And also The response to Siri AI has been very positive and they want people in the media to use it Like Yeah, I got the sense of like like hey You know, why don't you try Ba one? And like in a way that I'm not sure that really gets across as much, but they seem Very keen very keen for people to try it. This feels like a very different company to the last two WWCs, where twenty four, they were kind of on the back foot because it seemed like they had to get some things together quickly twenty five, they started with an apology And now in twenty six, I think they've got their ducks in the rock Yeah, real attitude adjustment, a bunch of changes in personnel I think that all helps. real like Look, I don't know if I said this last week, but like But The thing I talk about about how when you're riding high, there's no reason to change. L if you're succeeding at everything and you think there's and somebody comes to you and says, well, there's this one area where we're not doing as well as we could. There's almost a If it ain't broke,' fix it. It's like listen, look, we're on a roll. Let's just keep doing what we're doing And once you have a moment where you hit a bump where you know, something happens that's bad. you finally get an opportunity to revisit and question and have open the conversation about what we could do differently. And Apple has been on such a role as a business for so long that it feels like it really took them you know, a punch in the gut Like twenty four failing for them to actually say, you know, we need to make changes. Pople need to go newew people are going to be put in, we're going to change the structure, We're going to change our priorities. It's a great opportunity to make something positive out of a negative situation. I also had another theory on why parental controls took up so much time. So The screen time stuff and the parental control stuff has apparently been broken for a long time. I know screen time's been broken for a really long time Basically, since it's shipped You know, I would often get like twenty four hour screen timee days because a web page on aMac for some reason was counting as twenty four hours in complete use U And then also, you know, we I said this to you, but somebody wrote in like a week before the keynote was like, if you speak to anyone at Apple this next week, please ask them to fix parental controls because they're so broken. And it seems like, you know, people that are using this stuff, they've been having issues with it. So in their year of wanting to improve OS stuff I would assume they realize similarly to Siri only way to fix the bugs in these features was to start over again with the underlying architecture, which turned into a big job. So I figure this maybe was one of the things that ' got the most complete reworking So then they just kind of att that point was like, you know what? let's go all the way, right? Let's start consulting people making some points. We're going to have a point of view and a stand on this now and then it kind of just balloons to being in the keynote You combine the also the government Um, yeah issues around this and realizing, I wonder if they had a moment where they realized governments were going to ask things and screen time was totally broken And they're like, we can't even comply because our feature doesn't work right. And they have no good answer for why it doesn't work. you know? Yeah. you could argue that this portion of the keynote was very much just like the Apple intntelligence portion, where it was We actually have to make good on a promise that we kind of failed to deliver on. Yeah. But Apple's never going to say We're sorry. We know screenim has been busted and we fixed it. They're going to say, hey We have a new focus and some great new features in sccreenime that we're even calling not even mentioning the word sccreenime because it's so embarrassing, which I thought was also kind of funny. Yeah, yeah. Oh, this is a little tangential, but I wanted to mention. I talk to somebody whoo used to work with John Gian Andrea. Okay. And I just wanted to say that I got confirmation from them that our theory that he was a he was always a more academic B thinking kind of guy who was about research and development Hh. and that He was the wrong person to be in suddenly having to rapidly iterate and ship products to customers. role that When Apple hired him, he was hired as a deep thinker about AI development. Then he got turned into a product manager. That he was fundamentally Miss past in the role of shipping products to customers at Apple, which Apple suddenly found itself in. And I just thought that was kind of funny that we were extrapolating all of that, but I talked to somebody who used to work with JG and he was like, oh yeah That's that yeah, he was very he was very much which kind of academic guy. Rayy would show that Apple leadership failed him They hired him for a certain thing. he was doing that work. and then they turn around and say, no you have to lead a product walk. And it's like Yeah, maybe somebody else should do that part. I dont like build features that are not the features that you like or are interested in building and you know maybe poopooed and now they're the ones that are the most important. Anyway there's a new of AI and ML now who also came from Google and worked on Gemini. and I imagine that that guy is I forget his name, but he was on stage at the Tch T talkk. Amas A Rromania Yeah Um, I would imagine that he came in well aware of. He was a very good presenter. focus he was. Yeah. So yeah, that was a great that was a great crew up there on stage. That was a really great some set of people explaining what their strategy was. So yeah Oviously we all took picture sitting right behind the two CEOs. Speaking of which actually, I wanted to just point people to something Federico wrote just because it's so beautiful. So Federico wrote an article. M and you both called it an essay in the links because it was much more of an essay on Max stories called betweenetween seeasons. This is just really, really, really good. like a reflection on where Apple is and also whereon Federico is in his career. it's really worth reading. so I'll put that in the show notes. Yeah, he was reflecting on his ten years covering WWBC, which I thought was like that's very impressive and also it was thirty for me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Let's not even talk about we often say you're like three Federicos. We do say that Yeah. yeah. it's good that you're you're you know, you've the T Federico theorem There's also I want to talk about I want to get into the details and talk about some of our experiences. but I do want to note, there is some drama brewing about the Apple, the EU and the DMA all over again I want to try and get into that maybe next week because Just in reading this morning, it's like, oh, there's like seventeen different points of view on this one. And so I'm hoping that maybe if we give it a few more days, maybe it will become a bit clearer, but want but I also do want to dig into it. so Hopefully next week some point in the next couple of weeks, we'll get into this a bit more. It's more than we have time for in today's episode, I think. This episode of Upgrade is brought to you by Dekagon. 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We're happy to have it back Jason, what beters are you running? and on what devices Oh Um I am currently running I have a I have a Loner MacBook Pro that is running Golden Gate. I have a loner iPhone air that is running twenty seven and the Vision Pro Lonaner actually and M five is running twenty seven and I don't have it on an iPad yet. However, hearing all the positive response, you know, I'm starting to already get the you know, get the the itch to use this with real hardware that I actually rely on I had the I had the realization the other day that I have am currently not I've been planning on doing something with it, but I haven't P those plans into effect yet. I still have my M one Mac studio Just sitting unplugged And I thought That may give me the strength to update to Golden Gate on my onn my Mac becausecause if I need to record podcasts And something is bad in a beta. I could always flip over I I can use that for the podcast side of it. while living with the beta. So that's that's where I am is I have not used them very much. I spent time doing some seri stuff on that iPhone because the iPhone has all my data on it. It's it's a migrated version of my phone from last fall. so it is not up to date like my main phone, but it's got most of my data on it. so it was usable. So that's where I am. It's early days yet. What do you have? Where are you? The only deate that I'm running right now is IOS on my iPhone Paya one on my seventeen proro I did a day that I got home I did not want to do it before I left just in case of disaster Yeah. and This is I have never, I don't think I've ever done this. I don't think I've ever put beta one on my iPhone before. I usually wait to about three But I was hearing people over the few days, you know, like, talalking about the beta feeling pretty strong. and I realized I really wanted to try out Siri AI. and realized, you know, if I'm going to do this, it has to be on a device that I'm using every day that's got all my stuff on it And I was thinking, well, I could put it on my iPad, but I don't have my iPad with me all the time and I want to get into the habit of thinking of and asking questions of it. So it's like the answer for all of this is I have to put on my iPhone I've been very happy that I have honestly. I've found the beta to be very strong. I've not found an app that isn't working overall battery life feels as good. My phone's been getting hot, but it's also doing that indexing. Um which apparently I've heard can last like weeks, depending on how much stuff you have on your phone and I may be in your iCloud. I don't know what exactly it's indexing It took about twenty four hours for the indexing thing to show up for me. I also had to do a bunch of tweaking to get Si AI to show up I don't know if I needed to do any of these things, but I did them like setting my region to America and doing that kind of stuff. I think canan it helped kick it all into gear? So don't ask for a tutorial because I don't know how to do it. But I've been spending a lot of time using Syria AI. And this has been for different types of things. So I've just been asking some questions just to see what the answers would be like, right? Like, what does Jason need from me? And it will go and tell me I asked it like, what do I need to catch up on right now And it said you've got these messages and you've got these two emails They weren't the most recent emails, but they were the ones that it deemed most important. I One of the emails that it gave me was a contract, like a sponsor contract And I said, Okay, tell me more about that contract and compare it to the last three deals And it went through foundound the last three contracts over the last year table and then gave me a summary about how budgets have changed over that period of time This was like maybe the second thing I did. and I was like, o my Godd It's doing it. It's not perfect yet and maybe never will be. Like I've like earlier today I asked it to find me a message that I knew had been sent a couple of years ago, but couldn't exactly remember the details of it. It couldn't find it. But I found it by searching manually unbelievably in the messages app It's still indexing, so I don't want to pass full judgment, right? So like I'm waiting until that's done before I say like you can really like say like one way or another how good it is at mining that personal context. But it's doing it and it's doing it well. Like another example of a thing, you know, I know that Idina sends me shopping lists sometimes And so I was like, well let me just see if it can do this. And I said, findind the last shopping list that Adina sent me. And it did. And then I said, addd all those to reminders. And it did. put them all in as individual items in my grocery list Yesterday, Ddina sent me three Ie messages that were a plan for the day So she she took the day out because, you know she's looked after the baby for a week So it's like, you'd go take the day, but just let me know some things that you want me to do because Taking a week away from a baby of this age. She's a different baby now. She has completely different needs. And so it's like if you have things you want me to do at certain times in a day, you let me know what they are. She sent me three ey messages, separate eie messages of things And I just said to Siri AI, grab those grab the three most recent IMS uss from Edina, admin to an Apple notote for me And then I was like, can you take these bullets and add and turn them into checklists And it said, I can't do that But let me tell you how to. And I thought that was actually pretty good. for whatever reason, it couldn't turn a bullet list to a checklist, but it said Just select all the text. and just hit the little icon, you know, they explained the process of turning it from one to the other. And I was like, hey, I like that. If you can't do it, tell me how to do it. you know? So I thought that was pretty good I the first thing I tried was something it has never been able to do Siri has never done this for me. I said, what is the time in Cuatino? gave me the accurate answer. This is when I'm in London and I asked. And then I said And what's the weather? And it did it. gave me it's like did it correctly. It's like these are just simple things and it just does them Um So I've been very happy, but also The World Knowledge queries are really good as well. stuff that's not to do in my personal context at all. I'm just asking it questions Um I'm asking it questions about network attached storage because I'm back into that world again where I'm realizing that I now have a whole set of new needs that I didn't have the last time that I looked into the network attached storage world which was only a couple of months ago, but now I Jason, I'm about to hit the max of my four terabyte dropbox And I can't increase it I think I still believe what you might want to do is just get a raid or something and attach to that mech. This is what I'm ask This is what I'm I'm going to do something, right? Like but I but you need storage at the studio. I was asking Sira AI, like what is it think? And it was giv basically the experience a lot of the experiences I've had are as good as any chat bot experience I've had. Yeah. No, I see what's happening. I mean, you don't need my advice. You've got your new friend to give you. Yeah, yes. mean Yeah. I have my What do I need What what do I need from you Mike? I need you to need me. that's what I need. Don't put me aside for Sir AI. I try not to. Please try not to. I beg you I wanted okay, I'm currently considering a synology Um One of the key reasons for this is like at first I was like, o, I might just get like a raid or just some kind of drive enclosure But I need to be able to share files with other people directly And so donon't think something that is just like Rves attached to my Mac ' going to easily let me do that Right, whereas syynology's got some sharing stuff built into. Exactly. You would have to find some sort of app. I'm sure there's some utility or synology has that up. Yeah. I've been looking at synology has has these things. and so it's like So this is I'm dealing this is like a whole separate topic But I've been asking Si AI. And interestingly, like I also had to ask Jet Jet chat GPT about this a couple of weeks ago And Siri AI gave me different recommendations and I actually think they were better Like I gave I've been doing this thing where I've been copying requests that I've given to other chatbots and asking them to seri And it doesn't they don't give the same answer because these systems never do But I have been consistently impressed with the answers that it is giving me So I don't know, man. L I think I think this might. I think they've done it I think they've made a good system and all of this is actually I had a shower thought I actually think in the end Siri AI is a good name There's always been this question of should they rebrand series, should they come up with something else etcera etcet One of the reasons that we said like donon't is because they've built brand awareness, right? People know whatory is So now they are benefiting from that. And by putting AI at the end, they are saying this is smart. Like that's what they're trying to say to the world. L Syria is smart now that this name kind of gives that off especially because in my experience so far over the last four or five days or whatever. It is. And so I think it's going I think it might work out for them. L I've been very impressed. I'm going to continue using it. I am increasingly in I'm going to put a link in the show notes to Stephen Robz' video. He did a video kind of showing off a bunch of things that he'd done. And so you can see kind of more of this stuff in action. you did a really good job with that I think it's I think it's good By the way, we' talking about indexing If if you haven't heard this advice, here's the advice. If you're not ready to go to the betas yet for twenty seven, go to the twenty six six beta It's available as public betata. twenty six is out yet Wd on the street is the twenty six six starts the indexing process in the background That's why it is said to do that then. o ye That's the that's the word on the street, which is that Apple very cleverly is going to push twenty six six out to people this summer and their devices are going to be able to very slowly do the initial spotlight index for twenty seven. when you don't have twenty seven, so that when you get twenty seven, the index is there and you don't have to wait That was just super smart super clever because, you know, I'm I'm expecting this is going to take a really long time And it's a very intense reindexing and they have to start from scratch because it's a new spotlight and all of that And so it sounds like they're priming the indexer in twenty sixty six Um which is super, super clever. Also my my one moment of Siri AI kind of like appreciation. U I do this silly podcast with David Laure and Philip Michaels where we watch old episodes of Magnet PI and we do it it's like summer of fun. in it summer of Magnum instead. We just have fun. TV show, detectives, eighties, Hawaii, It's great. And what we do is we record two at a time And At the end of our recording, we have to decide what the next two episodes are.. And we have a little group chat and it goes way back And we, you know, throw other silly stuff in there too. And I was I thinking I need to watch one of those too. I need to do my homework And I was like, ah, this is a thing I do all the time. All the time I switch over to the Magnum podcast, text chat and scroll back until I can find the episodes that we're doing. And I said Siri AI What are the next two episodes of Magnum podcasts that we're doing And it said, you're doing this episode, which is season three episode fourteen and this episode, which is season seven episode eight And it was totally right. I was like, ah, right? Like it knew enough do the right search to find the right information to give me the answer without me having to go and do a thing I could do, but like go to messages, find that thread, scroll and look at all the text in the thread until I found the one where I said, this is what we're doing And that was my moment of like, okay, this is something this I like this. I you know My challenge is going to be third party apps like Is Fantastical going to supply its calendars to Spotlight or am I going to have to add all my calendars to calendar Is MimSream gonna Is there a way for Imcream to even offer search stuff in spotlight Or can it not? And if it can't, does that mean I also just need to run mail in parallel so that Siri AI knows about my email. I don't I don't know the answers to all of those questions. These are things that we're going to have to figure out this summer. but Um But right now it looks like this feature is useful enough that if I have to build parallel workflows just for spotlight to feed spotlight information. I will if the benefits are like this One of the features that is only coming to the new phones? because so The newest phones, the twelve gigabyte RAM phones they get access to a I think a bigger model Right? Like there are a couple of different model sizes It's been a bit confusing, but I know one of the features They the newer phones are getting is a new dictation system And it's in beta one, but you have to enable it explicitly and it's in a weird place. It's in the keyboard settings. It's called advanced dictation preview I have had very good experiences with this system so far I am able to talk faster and more naturally. I'm not speaking like like I'm dictating. if if I try to dictate a message, I talk very carefully, you know, like it kind of slow down and enunciate but I'm able to speak way more fluidly And it and it's doing a much, much better job. So I've been impressed with that too I am incredibly unsure about the new photos features So They work really well, which I think is what makes me so uncomfortable about them Um, You know, like I've done a few of the extending things and it just adds in stuff obviously that's not there, right? So I took a picture of me at Apple Park and I extended it put me in shorts and I wasn't wearing shorts, I was wearing Chinos that day I took a picture of Edina and it arm off and I extended it and put her arm in and gave her a round analog watch, which is not a thing that she And it's like, off course it's going to do this because what else is it going to do It does it really well And so then it's like I It needs to do it well if it's going to do it, but the fact that it does it well makes it much more complicated. The way I've been thinking about it is Extend is really cool. The further you extend, the more problem I have with it. Yes. just because the more opportunity there is for kind of confabriulation. I think it's very different What you said, like If you're extending someomebody's pants and it turns out they're wearing shorts even though they weren't. And you know, if the context doesn't matter, then maybe it doesn't matter.t But you can't rely on that as the memory of what actually happened because it didn't actually happen So I just kept thinking this would be a great feature to use judiciously. You know, use it judiciously you know, the further out you go the weirder it's going to get. And so just be aware of that. But if I want to give a photo more headroom to use it as a as a lock screen. or I do a lot of stuff where it's I need it a little bit wider to put it on six colors and it's just not quite wide enough. Or the example Apple gave is when you rotate a photo, you have to crop it becausecause there's a portion, there's a little wedge. that has been revealed in the rotation top and bottom that don't have anything in them. So then it snaps closed and now your photo is not as as big as it was And you can generatively fill those little wedges now. keep your photo the same size. Like this is all good. I just I just keep coming back to the fact that like you could you could really overdo it. Yes. And that's true. cle it's true of cleanup as well. Like, you know, this is one of those things just because we give you these tools, you still need to think about how you want to use them and what you get out of it, which is not You know, not saying these tools are bad. It's saying just you need to You need to think about it. I did have a really good conversation with a photographer, I think you I don't know if you were there for that conversation or not. I think maybe you were. I was at WWDC I don't know if we should say who it was because he was talking to us privately, but A photographer pointed out that The challenge with the spatial reframe is When you're using the spatial photos in Vision Pro You know, there's a base photo that's real and then you're just kind of moving your head But with spatial reframe, You're moving your head essentially to do the low resolution sort of like set And then you press the button And it goes out to private Cloud compompute and renders the image for you And as a result, what you're getting back is based on the original photo, but it's not quite the original photo. And he pointed out like faces don't always look right. L it's okay as a kind of like a cheap parallax effect, but when you're actually doing a full render, it can look Uncanny because you're taking a also you're taking a fairly rudimentary depth map that's been created by machine learning on your device which is how they do the spatial stuff. And it's very impressive as a trick But like that depth map is not the contours of that face, I think. I think it's lower resolution than that. And then it's moving the face and then it's re rendering it. And again, it's using the pixels that were there, but it has to generate new ones in order to fill it in. And I can't disagree idn't look quite right. No No, So I feel like these features Good for utility, but bad for memories and Then it's like, what's the picture for in the first place? And so like you you gave some examples of some great utility things, right? You want your lock screen. so you know, you extend it up and a tree appears that wasn't there. or the top part of an airplane, you know, you're on an airplane and they like the roof of the airplane is there. It's like an image that I did, or you want a bit of extra space for a podcast cover up for an image because it's not square, it's a rectangular image or whatever And you you know, you're doing this stuff for utility and that's great. You're extending backgrounds and stuff. But anytime that that important things, i. e. people, pets, all this kind of stuff are any way involved in this You've broken the memory of it. L now it doesn't feel right, It doesn't look like the person. it's like if I do one of these things and then Save this effect and then look back in two years time Now I've altered the memory of that situation. And I think at that point That's not a good use of an image Speaking of image generation, Jem Moji is really good Oh I haven't tried it. That's great. I love Jimoji. The output is good and the system is way better. So now Well, one thing it does is make suggestions when you send messages So I sent a message today and someone and it recommended like do you want to make a genoji? of this phrase And I did it and it was a good jemoji. But when you go to create your own, the UI is quite different now You give it essentially. and it creates one And it doesn't do that thing where you swipe through to get others. It says, describe a change And so if you want something to change, you describe that change So that is a much That is a better system, I think, than what they were doing before where it would only take a couple of words or a couple of emoji or whatever I've combined two emoji and it looked terrible. So like it still has the ability to look terrible, but the quality of the images is better even if the output isn't always great It can also take images and create genenoji of images And it also suggests different styles I gave it an image of me and you at WWBC And it said Why didn't you ask for pixel art? And so I made what I think is a very good pixel art version of me and you. In the clothing that we were wearing, but it gave us emoji heads, which was an odd choice, but that's what it did. But I've done other ones where it didn't give emoji head. anyway. It's still doing its thing, right? It's still like imagining things This version of Genoji is better than the version that came before. And also you can do more with it and the UI makes more sense So yeah, I think That is better I wanted to mention because we got some feedback about this, our dislike of image playgrounds? Yeah And, you know, somebody called us Leddites for not like just for criticizing image playgrounds. It's like just get with a program. It's here. It's great. It's all settled And I just wanted to say Like somebody sent me an image that they used and they said they'd never used image playgrounds before and they used it on the beta and it was like line art for like a invvitation for a home backyard barbecue. with like a pig and like text in it and like I don't really have a problem with it. A thing that, you know, is just I need some simple imagery here And it's just kind of text in shape and all that. It's like As a utility, I think that's perfectly reasonable. Um My biggest issue is that Apple is even using as examples the idea that you're taking a friend's image without consent and posing them somewhere. Yeah. And I don't like it. I don't like the idea of using people's images without their consent. I just don't I don't think to completely glide over it and be like, yeah, here's your friend, and you're going put him in a chef's outfit and put him baking a cake If a friend of mine did that and then sent that to me, I'd be like, that's really kind of gross And reasonable people can differ, but I don't like the idea that like you're just making images of me and then sending him around. And it's not me I don't I don't love that. There are also lots of other issues involving like training and are they knocking off artists styles so that you can replace the artists not use the artists and not pay the artists, but we've stolen all of their work and used it to train. I don't know what the training set is here, but I'm just saying it can be an issue Um And so I would just say, you know, officially for the record. We don't We don't like it There are aspects of it that I think are actually fine and there are aspects of it that I think are kind of gross And there's plenty of room for debate, disagreement. What I would say is certain is that It isn't just a settled issue that This is fine and that anybody who has issues with image playlayground is just fighting against the tide and a leddite and opposed to a settled problem because it is not settled I don't know what world that person is in, but in the world of people that I'm around, including a lot of creative people, it is most definitely not a settled issue. Personally, the one that bugs me the most is the consent issue. like using somebody else's image, even if they're your friend, like it doesn't matter. L you are ropriating their face for your art project. And I don't like it. It makes me really uncomfortable. While we were talking, I just sent you a Genoji pixel art version of yourself. So good that's something for you to have. I think that these are better than where you're creating these like things that aren't supposed to look like a person. if you're going to do it, but I still St by the like you shouldn't be picking people. from images and creating like brand new things. So like one of the things in Genoji now, the thing that I just did is I gave it an image that I had of you and it made a version of that image I don't like that, but what I really don't like is what you were talking about, which is we're going to take someone's face and you're going to create them in an environment that they were never in You know, we do realistic because ye thought real we all hate this so much. We also do this to each other to troll each other. And so the day after the keynotes, Ste even sent me an image of myself juggling. It's like Oh I so bad. And and like I know why we do it and we did it two years ago and I know it's going to continue to happen. but I'm just going to be honest. I don't even I don't even like those No, I don't even like those. Even those make me uncomfortable. And I think that's why we're doing it to each other, but like somebody sends me a generated photoreistic, generated image of me and I am repelled by it, right? Like no I mean that's exactly why we make them and send them to each other. But like is doesn't that say that maybe this isn't right if like the response people are having to the image tools that you're giving them is that they feel uncomfortable by it. Thank You know? U yeah, I I'm I really don't like it. I would I don't like I now like it even less because they've decided photorealism is where they want it You know, like I would prefer if if they're gonna do let's make it full cartoon, right? Like Yeah, let's make cartoons. like not even the Moji things that are trying to look like people in a little bit. I actually know, more mimoji than the weird thing in the middle that they had before, right? Right Pixar characters or whatever. Yeah. look and I can I can see the utility of it and like I get it and you people are going to do it, but I don't love I don't love it and I don't love that Apple enables it and makes it very easy and demos it and doesn't seem to even give consideration to the fact that taking your friend's image and putting it in him in different clothes, doing a thing, and then mailing it to all of your friends might be problematic in some way The example that they gave in the keynote, right? I think an example that was given was like Here, you know, it's Frank's birthday party and Frank likes to bake So let's make an image of Frank Baking L, if Frank likes to bake that much, you probably have a photo with Frank. use a photo with Frank on the on the flyer or whatever that you're going to give in the invitation you're giving to your friends I don't know It's just not for me.. I only ever use image playgrounds to make fun of my friends directly to them. and I just don't think that is a good use of software Because the reason we do it is because it's not good Oh like it it o now it's like quote unquote good. but not right. I would say A couple of extra parts I want to mention. I want to finish in some highs. few little things that I've been very pleased about. These are the little details in the details If you copy a screenshot to your clipboard and go to iMessage, a button pops up on the top of the keyboard. This isays paste from screenshots. Amazing Because that's what you're usually doing, at least for me, I'm usually taking a screenshot and sending it to someone and it knows that You now have the ability to set independent volume levels for ring tones and alarms For some reason that I will never understand every few weeks My ring tone level gets set to zero And so my alarm doesn't make any noise. I've never understood what I'm doing I don't have change of buttons turned on. I don't know what is going on in there, but now you can set these things independently, which I think is awesome And In twenty six, they made the Apple Pay card selector when paying online significantly worse And they kind of There used to be a button that you could tap to change cards and you can still do that, but they moved where the button went and it stopped making any sense The UI now is amazing They a big image of the cod that you're using. And you a big button that you can tap, it shows you a visual of all of the cards that you have in your Apple Pay and you can select any of them And the first time and when you first open Apple Pay, It shows you the card that you selected, but then has the other ones kind of stacked behind it, like Cverflow and they disappear So you can immediately know, I can change my card. and then it's incredibly clear for which card you're going to use loveove it. That was a big annoyance of mine that they fixed And they've actually made theUI so much better. And these are little things I'm noticing throughout the system. Things that didn't feel right or were buggy or whatever have been fixed and been made better like twenty seven is on one. L it's a good operating system This episode is brought to you by ExpressVPN. A few decades ago it was easy to be a private person. The internet changed that. Think about everything you could have browsed, searched for, watchhed, or posted. The sad truth is that this data can be crawled through, collected and aggregated by third parties. 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So I just returned from California and I was able to use and was using ExpressVPM whenever I was connected to public wiifi, which I was often, because I don't control those networks that own those networks and hotels and airports, that kind of stuff. And then I can also reroute my traffic to continue watching things on the streaming services that I'm using at home in the ways that I want to Secure your online data today by visiting expressvpN. com slash upgrade. That's Xp RSSvpN. com slash upgrade to find out. and you can get up to four extra months. That is expressVpN. com slash upgrade our thanks to ExpressVPN for the support of this show and all of relay Thiss time for some ask upgrade questions Jason writes in and says Apple has announced that the new more advanced on device models for Siri AI for more expressive voices and improved transcription require devices running the most recent silicon with twelve gigabyes of RAM. It would be disappointing if the base iPhone eighteen and maybe iPad mini revision would be locked out of these features Do you think this likely means that this year's A twenty based processor will also meet the requirements for these features I mean, it is a good question. I'm sure Apple I mean, look, those features still work. They're just not as good. That's the way that they've handled this, right? Is that they better Better processors get the better mod And then and well and yeah, it's like in these features exist, but they're not as good. So you get transcription, but not the gr good new transcription. It's not like the Apple intelligence features where it's like you don't get it. It's that we are entering a world where we're going to have multiple models And you will get a better model if you've got a more powerful processor. where that's where we're going. And this will go into the future. where they will have new models. that are cutting edge that don't come to older devices, and it'll be almost like a hardware feature where you'll be like, what do you mean? It's just a software update? It's like, yeah, but it's about the hardware You don't have the hardware capable of doing this whizzy thing. So you'll do it worse or it'll go to the cloud or you don't get it Yeah, so I think Apple has a motivation to make new iPhones get these features But I would also say I don't feel like it's Apple intntelligence, where they feel like they have to put it in every single product. So Maybe They would try to get the chip that's running to support it, but the bottom line is like I think the chip design precedes the existence of these features Yeah, and it's not It is not like Aple intntelligence version one where it was like you just get nothing if you don't have the base chip level. is there are just certain features that aren't the big ones. On the cheaper devices, older devices you just don't get as good transcription, as good of a voice whatever else features they might use in the future with those models. Yeah. that So I think there's I think it gets againgain, gives them some pressure to try and have more devices work with the latest and greatest cool models because it kind of raises the bar for new models But I don't think it's like a All hands on deck kind of thing like it was with Apple Intelligence, and I think that there will be new products There will very likely be new products that come out that just don't support this, right? That aren brand new, but just don't support it U mayaybe, you know, the low end iPad doesn't support it Maybe the iPad mini doesn't support it. I don't. it depends on what the processor is Maybe the MacBook Neo never supports this model because it's just not there U I don't know. but so I think there's a motivation, but I don't think it's enough for them to say future You know, every product after we make this announcement must support this newer on device model. I don't think that's ical but I do think that there's a little bit of pressure to make it work if they can for as many new products as they can If they can't, I think they're going to be okay with it because you're not getting that feature. you're just not getting a good version of it. Simon says one of the reported challenges of AIing Siri was to add the open world LLM functionality without breaking the more prosaic Siri turn of the kitchen lamp components. Apple addressed this at all when talking about SirI AI? and do we know yet how successful they have been in integrating the two You've provided in our in our ye document they put this on stage at the Tech talks. Yeah, so they they showed us essentially a flow chart of what happens when a request is made and like how it can go down the stack the very top is something they called system experience which has inside of it a box called Assistant Eperience. But what I think they're getting at is when you ask for a thing to the system It is then starting to decide the whereere is this being kicked on to? And it feels like from what I can remember and what I worked out from this image Essentially, if you request something like that, the system is going to say, oh, I can just handle this and do it becausecause it's a basic on device thing. And if you can't, then you start going out to what they called later the system orrchestrator, which then starts to work out how complex of a thing is this? Is this something that I need on screen awareness for? Do I need to start querying the spotlight index? And then do I need to kick it out to the on device models or actually does it need to go to the So there's like a bunch of things going on here and it feels like the very, very top level is Can I just do this thing? So set a timer U the weather this kind of stuff or turn on the system. I think it's I think it is like volumes and timers and a bunch of stuff that's just very simple. local requests that need to just happen immediately and this is the stuff that they've been doing forever That's how they've built it. Yeah. That's the idea. Paul asked, did Apple make a mistake to include an AI subscription within the existing iCloud subscription Should it have taken the opportunity to create a new subscription service or is there more value from defending the iCloud price point I don't think they've got a product here I really don't. Yeah I think iCloud Plus is a great example of apppp gating things behind, Do you give us money already so that there's the money, the features you get, the functionality you get from buying our product and then you get a little bit more if you're also paying us on an ongoing basis And I just don't see how it needs to be more than that that they need to they need to work their business model so that using an iPhone is something you do You can do freely. without adding more subscription like you do you want more Siri AI you have to pay? I don't think's a thing they want to do. And then you want more times of doing image generation or whatever. then IiCloud pllus is a nice way to just kind of throw it in the in the box. It's like literally, do we have an ongoing services business relationship with you, will then That's good enough. It doesn't preclude them from saying if you wanted to buy more, although at this point, they don't really want to even make that a product I like it I like them doing it like this. I think that This is their system level way of selling kind of enhanced access to existing customers who are obviously generating more revenue for them, which means that it pencils out that the added cost of AI queries will U we'll basically be covered And then everything else ends up being wrapped in a product, right? So like there's AI query stuff happening in the creative studio But that's a different subscription, but that's a very specific. It's features happening in apps that you are paying a subscription price for So that that's how they handle it there I don't think there needs, I just don't think there's a product here I think it is difficult to. suggest you should pay more like you should there should be a specific plan or subscription available for something that is showing to be a core operating system feature Yep Yeah, I don't I don't I mean, I I got some iCloud Plus gave me pause. But I do understand that for features that are that are above and beyond and have incremental cost that haaving it be that way, but what I like about iCloud Plus it is the lightest touch It's like literally, what? if you pay ninety nine cents a month for a little more storage, I think you're iCloud pllus at that point, right Yeah. I don't know. I mean, you basically have to have to be giving Apple some money and then Apple's like, okay,'re're you're good. you're good. And that's the way That's the way to do it, I think, for stuff like this. I wouldn't want them to go down the path of here are a bunch of features that are in our operating system, but you don't get them until you pay us. I just I'm really reluctant to do that Yeah, I u I don't even know what pllus includes because I just do the Apple one thing. It's literally It's literally if you pay them for something So if you pay them for ninety nine cents a month for fifty gigs of storage, you are iCloud plus or anything above that If you've got more iCloud storage, if you're in the Bundles, you've got that too then you're in thenen you're in. Like basasically it's do you pay Apple For some subscription that includes iCloud in some way, you're good. and you get stuff like relay Custom email addresses, hide my email storage and stuff like that. Yeah Yeah. And as Zoe points out, I think I think there are levels of iCloud pllus where you get more But they seem to have just gated this as iCloud pllus, which means that yes, you could play one pay one dollar a month Well, unless they ter it, right? So different ples But that amount. Maybe give you more limits M maybe but they haven't communicated that and I don't think they're there yet. Ian says you've mentioned a few times in prior episodes to look for canaries in the coal mine at WWC for features that foreshadow future hardware launches. There's been a lot of talk about how the ability to change the simulator width a precursor to the folding iPhone But there has been there has been little talk as far as I've seen about port to refresh being a precursor to a touch Macbook bra So yes, Safari's getting pulled to refresh But there is also support for drawing in free from on the Mac that they say used a trackpad for. come on as well as touch support for sidecd display. Yes. The real canary in the coal mine here is SideCar is a feature that lets you use an iPad as a Mac monitor and they had like pencil support in it and stuff so that you could do things like draw in Photoshop and it was like you were using a graphics tablet. Now they are adding a whole set of APIs where you can add touch support four sidec to apps, to like app kit apps, to like Mac apps. You can add touch support now and Right? Like for all those sidecar heads out there But we know what it is. That's like really the message that they can't say, but that everybody knows is use Sidecar as a way to experiment with how touch interactions will work on your Mac when we do a touch screen MacBook We all know it. this is how they roll it out. It's nice that they've got that feature that it's perfect for this.erfect But that's very clearly there. And then like I mentioned earlier in this episode, the four K cameras thing feels very much like They're going to have a security camera or a doorbell camera And that's why they added that. as they want If you would like to send us in a question for a future episode of the show, please go to upgradefeedback. com. You can send in your ask upgrade, your snll talkal, your feedback, your follow up all by going to feedback. com Please go and check out our Kickstarter at desesign.Fm. Stay tuned for our second preview episode on Thursday as we continue the road to the Apple two series Thank you to our members to support us of uppgrade pllus, go to get upgradeplus. com to learn more You can find us on YouTube by searching for upgrade podcasts I wouldd like to thank our sponsors of this week's episode, that is Century, Deckagon and ExpressVPN. but most of all, thank you for listening. until next time, say goodbye, Jn by my curly.