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. From Relay, this is Upgrade episode six hundred and twenty seven. Tod's show is brought to you by Dekagon, Squarespace and Factor. My name is Mike Hurley and I'm joined by Jason Snow. Hi, Jason H Mike Eurly how are you? I'm very good. I have a snow tot question for you. Oh comes from Joseph who wants to know. I've now been to WWDC twice and so have therefore received two Apple branded water bottles as a result Does Jason have a shelf in his house somewhere with thirty assorted Apple branded water bottles You know They didn't used to give water bottles out. I do have some apple water bottles and I don't have any place to put them because they're They're so tall. Yes. and most of my shelves do not are not that tall And I have better water bottles is the other thing. I have like good water bottles and these are like They're like recyclable. They're like thin aluminum water bottles that feel like they could be single use, but they could also be multi use, which is fine. but I have other water bottles that are better. So right now they're actually over byy my And people watching the video version of the show will see me gesturing over by my washing machine. Okay right next to that just in a pile with a bunch of other junk where it's like, I need to put these somewhere and I don't know where to put them. And I may end up just recycling them honestly because I just don't need that many water How many water bottles does one person need The problem is, or not the problem. There is a situation that I' been in the two times that I've been to WWC which is being in the podcast studio. So yeah When you go to the podcast, they give you water bottle. They put a water bottle out for you that is full of water, which is very kind and thoughtful of them to do. Yes. But because of the fact that they're putting them out, they say, please take it because they don't reuse them because they don't want to contaminate. Germs are. So I in both twenty three and twenty six left with three water bottles. U. I have two from this show. So this year I have three of the WWDC ones and I have one behind me and I have two sitting over on the little table that I have that you know that exists when you come in. They are now my guest water bottles. So when people come to the studio, they can use those. In twenty twenty three They did not give away extras of the water bottle that was in the tote bag, like the little gift bag It was a different bottle made by a company called Swell. Oh are those and those are incredible. Those are really good. They're like those areulated water bottles.. where like I've recently where it's been hot, like I'll leave the house in the morning. onene of those in my bag with water and ice in it It's like thirty five degrees it was one day or whatever. and I'm walking down the street with that in my bag. The ice is still in cubes at the end of the day. So I was very happy Yeah. thoseose are good. Now Now what they give away is these super thin. they might as well be. they're basically the same thing you'd get at like a sporting event for a beer. Yeah It would be in an aluminum can shaped like a bottle That's what it is. Yeah. But those bottles, they didn't in twenty three, they didn't give away those. In twenty three, they gave the little fellow coffee cup thing, which is also aor thing. Also a great. Yeah. No, this is, I mean, it's fine. They don't need to give us anything. No, honestly. Merch wasated. say merch. The little gift bag My little max. They were a thing that started post COVID, right? especially for the media Um Yeah for the media, I mean, what I was going to say is I don't know because the challenge of my memory of WWGC is for a while there At Mac World, we just bought WWDC badges. Yeah. They weren't that expensive and you could just buy we bought a five pack and literally they sold it as a five pack.. And then just distributed them to people and take a badge and go for a day or go for the whole week to the event and they all get gift bags. Yeah, right? they're developers And then we started getting like, do members of the media get the same little little Chachkib bag or not U and I think it varied from year to year. But yeah, since COVID, they've had this thing where it's a small event and that everybody gets a little bag when they get there. Yeah just, I mean, it's nice and all I mean, it's mostly just like I said, pins But we got the the LowMac Little M guy, We'll find a guy. We'll find a guy. Got his Y got his pen, which was qu cute. very nice. And a water bottle which is which is practical, right? because you're there and you need to drink water and you know, hydration break. I believe one year But maybe the second year, they put sunscreens. did because a little that was the first the first year back there was sunscreen in the bag, whichich is odd that they haven't kept doing ex or. Well, they put they put up a they put up a larger canopy so there's almost no sun and the sun exposure you get isn't very much. Okay. But they did they gave a sunscreen and a hat which is a good was a good I think it's a black on black Apple hat too, which is not ideal for the No, but it's what they gave us. It's cool It's a black hat with a black appal on because I got that to even though I spent that WWBC in a hotel room because somebody took pity on you. Apple sent fel so bad. A like a gift basket full of things to make me feel better, including like Dakequill and it was very which was very helpful. And it makes it feel better It did Okay it did. it did make me feel better. Lots of snacks and medicines I like to think about that as the as the WWDC where we got to record an episode of Upgrade at My House oututside Yes, where yes, that That was really nice. that part of in an Alberurger. Oh man That was one of my favorite episodes of about Gade E because somebody treated me like a human being. Yeah. Be understandably, everybody was avoiding me like the littleital plague that week. However, you and I were at the opposites of a long end I insisted that we did that because you were like, oy, we're outside, and we'll be fine, But I was like, no, I want to sit very far away from you because I feel So it was kind of Putin like it was all the way down here. It was the end of this table But yeah, and the birds are, you know, there's a lot of time. My neighbor feeds birds so there's bird chirps in the background. That's a classic. I would do that again. Mbe maybe when I come for I would love to do another Outdoor episode. We were gonna to do it. The last time you were here, we were gonna to do it, but it was just cold and foggy and so we didn do it we did it inside instead. And I think they were reroofing the house next door or something. It was terrible. Yeah. That was a bad noise was twenty three wasn't it? afterfter the Vision Pro the episode after the Vision Pro. That's it That's right. Yes because you're Your wife was Um hadad to watch our our new our new dog. Yeah and Maisy being basically l control licked her all over Jeremy Birdge as well. Jeremyd.. Yes Good. goodood tim. Anyway. If you would like to send in a Snll talkalk question for us to open a future episode of the show, just go to upgradefeedback dot com and send yours in. We have some follow up, Jason Snell. The kickstarter is now done. Thank you so much to everybody that supported design in California. We finished at threez three zero three zero, which is incredible. I don't know how that happened The two of us actually got on stream for the countdown to the end So that's on YouTube. If people want to watch that, we're kind of reflecting on it and talking about some of our plans in the immediate future for designing California. So that's available to you. I'll put a link in the show notes in case people want to want to go and watch that. That's the thing that you can do spepecial Glen the guest. Yes. Gen Flash Gen Kickstarter whisperer. Yeah Yeah for this whole whole process also joined us for a little bit too. And so we were kind of like reflecting on on what the kickstarter how it had gone and that kind of stuff so that's available. So we'll talk more about designing California again later. just for now. we're heads down Yeah, a new podcast is going to come from us this fall And if you didn't get a chance and you still want to sign up for a membership, if you go to design. Fm, you can still it's called the late pledge, but it's basically just the Memember price and at some point when we get stuff up and running on relay, that'll be where you can get a membership. But also, yes, there will be a regular version with ads and stuff that will be available. and we'll tell you when when it comes out. An anonymous feedbacker wrote in and said, Regarding AI helping Apple fix bugs in the new OSs, I can confirm from various friends at Apple that most of their software engineering team is now heavily leveraging clawed code specifically I'm a software engineer too, and the workflow of engineers in San Francisco and Silicon Valley has completely changed in the last twelve months. from AI sometimes being useful to being the expected first step or the primary tool I have zero doubt that Claude heavily contributed to the bug fixes and performance improvements, as mentioned, it excels at those. And I do remember there was a report A while ago, I think from Mark German saying that Apple was encouraging people to use Claude in their work And this was what was leading us to believe that they may go withanthropic for helping with their AI efforts, but they ended up going to Google They're using they're partnering with everybody in different ways, which is kind of funny. I did a story last week on Six Colors about U security fixes. they released a twenty six five two Date that, um It's actually the features, the security fixes that were in the twenty six six public beta, but after a month, they're like, can we just release these? because the public beta is not over yet. The beta cycle iss not over yet, but they want the They want the fixes out. so they released it as in a twenty six five two And talking to them about it, they made it clear that one of the reasons is obviously AI makes it, you know, a new beta comes out. It's got bug fixes. People can use the AI analysis to figure out what what bugs they're fixing. And as long as those bugs have not yet been fixed, they can use them for attacks they can add them to their library of tools U But the other part of it that they said to me and I asked is Absolutely Apple is usingont you know frontier models to search for security flaws. And I got the distinct impression, you know, they make these announcements of sort of like, here are the credits for all the security researchers who pointed out bugs that we fixed But they don't generally talk about the bugs that they fixed No researcher cant and that's the impression I get is they're using AI tools Um very much. to find security issues, so it's not surprising they're using for bugs. And yeah, I think as this anonymous person points out This is just a thing that's happening now in software professionally is you would be a friend a friend of mine said to me, every time a new model comes out What you need to do is point it at your code and say, look for bugs. Yeah. and then just keep doing it. I mean I'm kind of at the feeling of like, why not? like why would you not do that, you know I mean, Marco Armment did a beta of overcast and he said, lookook, I had four bugs that have been intermittent that I couldn't figure out what they were in my code base and I pointed the AI at them and it found them. Yeah. And I fixed them. That fix like' been dealing with overcast since the redesign. Yeah littleittle suble, little subtle bugs that the developer can't figure out. And then it gets pointed out to him by the AI. and he goes Oh, right? L, but It's a different, you know, it's a different Logic enngine looking at your code and that's yeah, that's just how it's done now Allen wrote in and said, An important factor in new iPhones and price increases are carrier deals and contracts. The two hundred dollars price increase spread over the thirty six month cycle Just five fifty five a month The iPhone Pro on Apple's homepage is currently advertised at forty five dollars and seventy nine cents a month, so that it would just be fifty one thirty four cents Apple may begin to lean more into the monthly pricing rather than the base. There was also that weird thirty dollar thir deal during the iPhone twelve launch where it made these it appear as seven doll ninety nine cents instead of the actual eight hundred twenty nine c price, maybe a similar thing like that or things like this could happen again I think it's a fair point that iPhone pricing is complicated by carrier relationships and carrier marketing And while a lot of us think of iPhone price as, what does it cost to just go to Apple. com on the day and pay for an unlocked phone or pay for a phone that's attached to your carrier for a discount, but it's like you don't have a commitment. Um But so many phones are sold And they talk about this in the in the analyst calls every quarter So many of the phones are sold sold through partners on installment plans and then Apple also has its own. Honestly, like it's kind of ridiculous to do what I do, which is to buy the phone outright. I'm paying every month with my carrier anyway. Like ye, but I just like to to know I can get my phone when I want and not have to jump through the hoops, it's important for my job It makes some if you're on the plan, which you're going to be on anyway, beond that plan for a thirty six months, forty eight months, twelve months, whatever and pay it monthly, you know, it spreads it out Yeah and yeah. I know people who are on the annual plan and you get the new phone every year And you get the new phone every year You pay monthly And at the end of it, you hand it back and you get the new phone again. Yeah. And that's it. likeike there and your carrier will give you a free, whatever. I keep seeing You know, during the World Cup, there are all these T mobile ads that are basically like we will give you a free. iPhone seventeen Pro if you switch to T moobile and we'll yeah, Like, yeah. so And regarding the changes now, like I'm sure that the price profile of the iPhone is going to change But one of the reasons they may not have changed it now is because It's not as easy for Apple to change iPhone prices because it's not a traditional channel. That's the part right now that I think is probably relevant is it's not a traditional channel because you have carrier partners. And the carrier partners, the carriers have a deal for what they're paying for that phone and then they're obviously reselling it to their customers essentially. And like there's got to be a whole other layer of complexity and different carriers and different markets. And so it's probably gain, I'm just guessing here, but it may be that Apple looked at it and said, no, the way we need to do this is set new prices for the new phones in the fall with all our carrier partners. And then those will be the new prices. if you think like, you know, even all of the posters, all of the materials that every carrier around the world would need to change, where they would naturally have new ones in September. So if you can hold it off, hold it off. Do you go back to TMobile and say, okay, we're going to charge you fifty dollars more for every iPhone and they're like, well, we're not We have a contract and we have these thing where we're giving them away for free and we're not going to pay you an extra fifty dollars and like it's a whole thing. So I think that I think Alan makes a good point here that this is probably one of the reasons why the iPhone is a more complex thing, but that's also why I would anticipate in the fall. That's when you do it because you've got a new price that you set. And every year they are setting a price with all their partners of like, this is what the price is and this is what you pay and whatever those all those deals are are then based on that price that Apple cuts with them. and they may be able to find some way of dressing the price up so that it doesn't seem to be so catastrophic say So Jason activated a selection of punsters on the last episode. when I said punsters assemble. when they did. He mentioned the location of the install base, which is in regard to us talking more about maybe software in the future than hardware because all this pricing stuff So Sonny said, install base, is that next to Dongledtown? Is that where boootcamp is They probably trained to the east of the blue screen of Death Valley. And on the weekend pass they vit jailbreak Ridge, which overlooks Sandbox Beach or go rock climbing at the notch No. Okay someone that was with you you And then you lost me kind. That's a pun run too far. And Connor says, I believe you're thinking of software by the Sea, a small village north of Donongle toown It's where the web surfers purchase their softwares. wears Yeah I just want to stand for the record. Sny and Carno got in. door is closed on this. Yeah. Like you can send your puns to me and I will read them. I'm not going to keep reading them on the show. All right. Just no, we have no Thunderb Thunderbolt Dck. very important Mhm Um And then you know, we're going to leave the rest to your imagination until our next t shirt sale. Exactly Yeah, we might ask for them that we need to make merge. Until then give it to yourself Apple has announced that its next quarterly earnings report will be on july thirtieth. This is notable because it's going to be Cook's last public commitment by Aple, most likely. I can't imagine there willll be something else between now and September. You never know But this is set to be the last thing. There will surely be a lot of conversation about pricing strategies on this call. would be my expectation. I'm sure lots of analysts will have lots of discussions. You can look forward to that conversation at the beginning of August on the show Yeah, yeah, yeah That may be a we doue to travel, that may be me and a special guest. Yes talking about. I'm not playing the money Jingle on that that episode. So Jason will be sating in a special guest. I know how much you like it. I do really like it and and I had lots of consideration as to how to change it, but I just can't. we're going to be on the East cooast and We need to leave for the airport before we would finish recording. So There's just no way of doing it This episode is brought to you by Decagon If your team is dealing with more support tickets, more channels, and higher expectations from your customers, you've probably thought about using AI for customer support And you've probably seen how limited or time consuming most options are, and that's where Dekag Gong comes in. Deckagon helps companies create personalized concierge style customer experiences with AI agents across chat email, voice and SMS They're available twenty four seven, feel natural to talk to, and can resolve customer requests on their own Businesses can keep up with requests without losing a personal touch. Deckagon plugs directly into your existing systems so agents can get live quickly And because workflows can be updated using natural language, teams can make changes themselves without long engineering cycles. That means less time spent managing workflows, more time focused on customers and return on investment in weeks. Once li agents once live agents could pull up to date information, take actions on requests, and understand the context behind any conversation. Plus Dchag Gon gives your team full visibility into why agents make decisions and what's happening across every conversation, so it's easier to spot trends and improve the experience over time Dakagon helps power millions of conversations for everyday brands you know and love like Avis, Affirm, Fanatics, and Ura Are you ready to transform your customer support? Go to Deckagon. ai slash upgrade to get a personalized demo and see what Deckagon can do for your team Check out Deckagon at D EC a G O n. Ai slash upgrade. That is Deckagon . Ai slash upgrade thanks to Deckcaam for their support of this show So it is the summer of fun And for the summer of fun today, summer of fun Double follow up. We got more follow up for you. Wha. B Bloomberg has confirmed that Apple is indeed trying to buy RAM from China But they're saying that Apple is actually in talks with two companies that are on the Pentagon blacklist. Bloombergs say it's expected that this RAM, if they're able to if they do secure it, be used for devices sold in China, allowing Apple to allocate their other RAM inventory to devices sold outside of the region. Again Apple R. Within their legal rights to do this. like they could just do this if they want to. Nothing is stopping them Be especially if it's for Chinese devices However, without the blessing of the government, the U.S. government, they will face significant political backlash. like it won't go well for them. If they do it, even though they can do it, They're not importing the RAM or anything like that, but things would get messy for them However, I was reading this report. even if the president's like go for it, I don't think it's they're not I think they're still going to get a lot of significant backlash politically. L Just if Trump says it's okay It's not going to make the rest of everybody else happy about this. So You know, it kind of feels like if you do d if you don't, like I don' You know, it's like, okay, if if the Pentagon's like, yeah, don't worry about it. you can do this. It's not like Every senator and every Congressperson is going to be like, we agree, you know? It has been a fraught thing Be it's perceived as being like Chinese Communist partarty and People's Liberation Army related and it it becomes a source of like National security arguments and are they subsidized and unfairly competing arguments? And really there's a lot of it that's just this is an easy way to beat up on China kind of arguments from various Politicians from both parties in the U S. Um Then again What I've been saying all along is If this is a deal You know, the president of the United States enjoys making a deal. if this is a deal that he likes where it's like Apple's going to make some firm commitments to, for example have chips made in the U.S. at Intel in exchange for something like this. if that deal comes to be, He'll just do it Right? Like he'll just say it's fine. I say it's fine. and I'm not sure anybody's going to stop anybody doing that. I guess the fear is that There is a chance that Apple would make a deal with these companies and then Congress would basically step in and say No, these are barred now or some other organization would say these are barred completely and Apple seeking a guarantee that they wouldn't be barred I look at this and think in a moment like this where it's so extreme in terms of RAM availability Us some Chinese suppliers to make some RAM for the Chinese market and allowing Apple to then use the existing RAM supply elsewhere I don't know. I mean, seems seems okay to me in with these very limited issues, but the argument would be, yeah, but you're giving money to the to these Chinese RAM companies and that's what they want you to do, right? Like they're you're propping them up and giving them an infusion of cash and that's the last thing that we want for these unfair, you know Communist Party and people the Liberation Army tied organizations. So there's politics. it's all politics, right? This is but you you Hashtag Mike was right this is what's going on here is Apple would really, really like access to some more RAM And it's right there Is there a deal to be struck? And that's In another era, I would say this seems like it's not going to happen just because of the political opposition, but I don't feel like I can say that. I think that if the guy in charge says, this is a deal I want to make, then Everybody's going to say, yes, sir. Y John Prosser has finally filed a response in the lawsuit Apple brought against him J. Peters at the Verge has written a good breakdown of process response, but I want to go through some key points This is a quote from Peters Prosser denied that he planned or participated in any conspiracy, or coordinated scheme for the purpose of injuring Apple Prosser admitted to recording a Facetime call showing unreleased IiOS software He says he did not pay Ramotes, his codefendant upfront but agreed to share revenue from the YouTube videos he made as a result of the information being shared of him Now I'm not a lawyer, Jason that It feeles like six of one half dozen of the other to me I mean There are some legal reasons why you would make this argument. Right because Prosser. is not Prosser is protected by the First Amendment. First and foremost from reporting, you know, He's allowed to report about information that comes his way The question is about Um Did he induce this to happen? Did he offer money to pay for this guy to surreptitiously access his friends deevelopment iPhone That's where it gets messy. And so I can see why they're making the argument they're making here. It is absolutely throwing the other guy under the bus. Yes. But at the same time, the other guy, you could argue cooperating is throwing John Prosser under the bus. And we know so like I want to be skeptical about this, but we know that Apple really wants to punish John Prosser Right? ultimately Ramasadi doesn't matter, right? Like, I mean, maybe they'll prosecute him. I mean, he's if he really bribed an Apple employee to share secret information. That's not good. But like what makes this An interesting story and what makes I think Apple more inclined deal with Ramasadi is that there's John Proser and they want to put the hurt to John Proser. So of course, so so I think You know, where' the truth here is a little bit of a mystery. I'm not sure I understand Prosor's defense here. I'm not sure it makes sense to me. that this other guy would be like Oh yeah, I was talking to John Proser And he said, you know, he could get me money if I would do this. And John P was like, Oh, I never said anything like that. I just said, Ohh, tell me more or whatever. It's like h, did that I try to play back those conversations and I'm not sure, but it's possible. and the argument the process' attorney will probably make is that Ramasadi assumed that there would be a benefit But that Crosser only implied that he wanted the material and did not offer money for breaking the law. But like at some point like because they say he like Proscess admits that he agreed he would share YouTube revenue. When naturally would that come up You know when that would come up after like no. afterward. You would you would bring that up before you receive the information. This is what I'm saying is when I try to emulate this conversation in my head I have a hard time believing Prosser's series of events, but I understand why he's making those claims And I want to be I just want to be aware that Okay. wants to put the hurt to Per. and Ramasadi. cooperating presumably for less a strict punishment benefits Everybody who's trying to put the hurt on prorosser. Yep proosa claims that Rosoti is completely responsible for the disclosure of trade secrets. process said he was unaware of how Ramasoti got the information and that he disconnected communication with him once he learned how it was acquired Yeah. I mean, yeah, again, he's like, look, I didn't know. I just I just I' here with a big bucket catching rumors as they fly into it That's all. I'm just catching them. Yeah. They they come. I don't know where they come from ' not my business, which on one level is defensible. That's the whole idea is you're not inducing people to break their confidentiality agreements or steal. their friends phones The information you get And you can, I mean, I hear from people about this a lot where it's like You shouldn't do that. That's secret. It's like o But legally Legally If somebody gives you the stuff using a report on in the United States,'s First Amendment whereere you get into trouble is with inducing breaking. contracts and laws That's where it becomes, you're now a participant in the crime, essentially inststead of just, publishing information given to you is not a crime inducing somebody to go steal some stuff and give it to you is a crime.. Not the publishing of the information, the inducing of the crime So that's that's what this hinges on here We're going to see how it goes like I'm intrigued. Let's see where it goes. Apple Cateor Studio, the Apple Creator Studio apps got a selection of enhancements and new features. I think the top lines are Pixel Mer Pro is now more tightly integrated into other apps. So if you're editing Fal cut, you can grab a frame, edit that frame, bring it back in. There are better tools to create thumbnails and stuff like that in Pixel Mer Pro There are more AI powered tools in Final Cut, like generating captions automatically and auto masking. Yeah, I've heard good things about the masking. People were saying cool things about the masking And yeah, everything got a Pixelmor Pro like open in Pixel Ma Pro get from Pixel Ma. they like they they put in all of those connection Yeah I made a joke on social media about how What about all the great updates to keynote pages and numbers that are a very important part of this suite? And I got a very polite email from somebody at Apple saying just for the record, there are things that are updated in those two from the pressake Keynoteag and numbers are also adding some highly requested features. Keynote gains stunning new transition and builds, pages on iPhone and iPad, adds auto hyphenate and show invisibles Numbers makes navigating complex spreadsheets faster than ever with the ability to hide or color code individual sheets And then there's some features that are tied to the Creator Studio in terms of like Pixel M a Pro connectivity and stuff like that But they did add features and this is just, you know This is their challenge as they have to communicate now what features everybody gets. and what features are only in the studio bundle for keynote pages and numbers And I just want to say again, that It's incredibly stupid that those things are in that bundle. And as a user of a bunch of these apps, I continue to be eternally frustrated because I keep getting told I need to update to a new version of an app and I just haven't done it yet. and it's like it's a nightmare across all the devices that I use. I hate the way they did this. I think they completely bungled the launch. It's adding too much overhead into my decision making when I just want to use numbers. like I find it really frustrating the way that they did this. And now it's too late. even if they come up with a solution. it's just too late now. they bungled it in my opinion. And I understand why like I've seen I've seen this decision making, right? that like the team at, you know, like the creators whoever would be responsible Apple for being the Creative stududio team They really wanted to do this, but they could not get the engineering resources to launch it in a different way. So they just had to kind of bolt it ono the existing A store infrastructure and it just ended up being a mess It's I know why, you and I know why they did it. We can understand completely why they did it and why they had to do it the way they did it I would just say They shouldn't have done it. Yeah. I just in the end, I don't think it's worth it to include productivity apps in your creative bundle, if, if it has to be under these terms if there was a separate like bonus bundle for keynote pages and numbers that was optional. I'd be okay with it If it didn't mess up the existing apps I'd be Okay Because it seems like keynote pages and numbers are the ones that have been most impacted by this. Like when I open final cut or logic, I'm not getting these pop ups telling me to go get the new app order because well that's because you can buy that, right? Like so they're not they're not trying to necessarily exactly allow you to go get the subscriber version. Exactly. And yeah, it's just like I know at some point I'm going to have to do this if not I need to do it now because there's going to be features. No you should, you know, It's like I will get around to it, but it's like, I think I did it on one Mac, but not the other and it's like, I'm just trying to live my life, you know? L I have a spreadsheet to fill out. Leave me alone. But yeah, that's just the way it goes Every Mac Turned thirty. Jason, what is every match It's a website that has Um ofvery Mac ever released? Along with iPods and iPhones and all this kind of stuff too. I mean, you gott to move with the times, you know, thirty years ago, it was just every Mac. This website hasn't, which I do kind of love about it if I'm being honest. I mean, you build a site and then you just go with it. Y. It says established nineteen ninety six. so yeah, it looks like a site that was established in nineteen ninety six Um I always like these things because when I was at Mac Uer, we had a product called the Mac Catalog. and it was it was a guy named Mark Simmons who compiled it Um And it was a file maker database of all the Apple specs. And then the way it was distributed was He saved out a version of it. You could do this back in the day. You basically could save it out as a standalone app You didn't need FileMaker to run it. FileMaker let you save out like a database as an app or FileMaker deeveloper dition did or something. I don't. The license has changed over time. Filemaker has gone through so many different lives So I was going through my catalog of magazines and it says, you, go to our Copy sererve, and then later was you can download this from our website. and it's this app that has the complete Mac catalog and then Mark would update it I come into the story because I thought, because I was in charge of Mac Users's website We should get this on the website did but I did it through what in hindsight is the most ridiculous. It was the way to do it in the at the time, but it was the most ridiculous way possible because this is the early days of the web So there was in app. that bridged a web server with File mak I think I gott to go back because this also evolved over time. Ultimately FileMaker became its own web server. Ultimately, there was a whole standalone product. called Lasso. that did this. ultimately, there was also a product that would rip out, like modern static generation pages. Youre you thinking of Bento Be F M makea made that right Yeah, well, that was just an organizer. Okay. No, there was there was an app called Lasso that did this FileMaker did their own web server And Ultimately, yeah, there was there was also an app that I can't remember the name of that did a static generation. thing basically where you could point it at a filmaker database and it would generate a website full of pages based on your rules And I use that a lot My fiction magazine from the nineties Inner teext, that was how that site got generated was it got generated out of filemaker Be that was the way backack in those days, that was the easiest way you weren't running live databases on the internet or anything like that except that when Mac user launched the Mac catalog on the web, that's exactly what it was. It was a web server running on a Mac running classic MacOS in the Mac usser lab And every time somebody clicked on like, sort this or click give me a detailed view of that particular Mac. It would make a request to that Mac web server, which would make a request to fileemaker to go to that record in the database and it would get the data out of it and then it would and it would put it in a webpage and return it Every single request. There was no caching. It was a single, single threaded Mac Running classic MacOS, running MacOS eight baby And it worked because the web wasn't that big back then and there weren't that many people on it using this then. This is funny because I just got to the part of Jobs in exile when they talk about Tim Berners Lee using the next cube to set the sun. And it's like a similar thing where they said he wrote on in like red ink on the side of an nextcube, Do not turn this off. But yeah our server at the journalism school at UC Berkeley was a PC O no, it was a Mac actually in the PC lab in the corner and it had a big sign on the screen that said, do not use, do not turn off Um, And so Yeah, that was that was It was just I was essentially it was my experiment in what would it be like to have a more dynamic database driven website, which today seems like so obvious, but that's like Web two point zero, this was not web two point zero. this was web one point zero Yes. And it was a really fun experiment It would have created enormous technical debt problems down the road. but the good news is they shut down Macyser in I went to work at Mac World and all that stuff got shut down. and so I didn't have to deal with it anymore. We just shut it all down Anyway, so I have fondness for a thing like E Mac because that is absolutely a project that I worked on At almost the same time that every Mac started, I was working on that at Mac users. So that was pretty pretty great. But yeah folks don't Don't run I wrote a whole book with Carl Steedman about running web servers and other services on classic MacOS. and I think about it now and I'm like, don't do that. Don't do that, but there was a it was the style at the time run a web server on MacOS eight. likeike why would you but we did it We did it and we liked it Um I also, while we're talking about file maker, I want to have a little file maker tangent to just say that last week U So I'm on a discord of people who played on jeopardy Oh, look at you. Yeah. and it's fun U, there's a lot of it's very high volume But I'm doing Learned League now, which is like a online trivia Lague and there's a bunch of fun conversation among trivia people in there about that. I've really been enjoying that. And then there's comments about like the Dayss Jeopardy games and all of that. And somebody posted the other day They're hiring a writer at jeopardy full time We'll put a link in the show notes if you'd like to write Jeopardy, but you better hurry because you have to write essentially two complete game boards plus three final jeopardy questions and you have to get them all into Sony and it all has to be submitted by The end of the week is like really fast, really fast Um july tenth. So you've got very little time if you want to become a writer of Jeopardy and move to Culver City California But you can if you want. I'm not going to I got I got two I just got a new job designed in California so I can't do it. but Here's the part about it that I wanted to mention here I'm scrolling through the list. I'm like Be I almost did it, I almost applied for the job just for fun because I think it would be fun to assemble jeopardy boards and just to see. And then maybe they'd be like, well, Jason, you know, you're not going to move to LA. but maybe we'll use you as a freelancer or something like that. I thought about it, but I'm not going to do it because I got too much going on I got aateign in California episodes. I got to do a public betata preview. likeike there's all this stuff going I'm scrolling And I get to preferred qualifications for this job and there are two One is Membership in the Writerss Guild of America, which I do not have. So that's be a TV writer. And in the union preferred Great. It's a union shop. If you got the job, you need to join the union The second bullet point is familiarity with FileMaker Pro And I was like, dang I can nail that part. I'd be like, whoa What you really want to hire is me. Be I used to be a Jeopardy player And I like trivia And most importantly, I have developed so many filemaker databases over the years. Oh my Godd My other reaction was You know, every so often I ask myself when when Apple mentions that Claris is a wholly owned subsidiary of Apple and they're still in business and they're still doing FileMaker Pro. I think to myself Who's still using FileMaker Pro And now I have an answer, which is apparently the jeopardy Database is in FileMaker? I expect there's lots of stuff like this still floating around because they used it twenty years ago and they continue That's the answer.'s why why is FileMaker still around? I think in large part, like so many of these products Um they have a they have a installed base with deeply integrated to their systems. This is like it's like a version of the why is there still Kobal code running on a server somewhere from the sixties. The answer is There's a thing that is deeply integrated into a production workflow somewhere. And to remove it would be an enormous amount of work And it still works. So why would you change it And there's a business to be made supporting those people And it turns out there's a business to be made supporting The producers and writers of Jeopardy who use FileMaker for some aspect, I assume the questions and answers and all of that on on their show using Filemaker. So Shout out if there's any Jeopardy writers out there I swear I'm not going to apply for that job. so you could talk to me and tell me about this. But anyway, Filemaker at Jeopardy made me laugh. So I really fell into a filemaker shaped hole. last week. And it was fun I had to do command shift D to define my fields. I had to do Cand one to look at the scripting interface And then I did command Q and got out of it Is there any possibility that there will be an episode about File Maker and design in California one day? Maybe if we've run out of stuff to talk about No there Mike put it on the list. There is one hundred percent a series about Claris Claris, whichich includes file makers too, right? I know that was maybe a biger deal Yeah, Claris emailer I just added it is underneath shell loocking now in our long list of things. G This episode is brought to you by our friends over at Squarespace. They are the all in one website platform that is designed to help you stand out and succeed online Whether you're just getting started or scaling a business, Squarespace will give you everything that you need to claim your domain, showcase your offerings through a professional website, grow your brand and get paid all in one place So I lo that Squarespace grows and it has so many different functions that's added over time. So no matter what type of website you have you can build things of it,? you can keep sorry, what type of business you have, you can build the right website for it. So like you know, I have and have had various projects over the years. like right now, I have kind of like an about page that's on Squarespace. but you can also have like businesses that use it. You can offer your services and get paid for Squarespace from consultations to events and experiences. So you can showcase your offerings of a customizable website that are designed to attract clients and grow your business Think about built in appointment scheduling, email marketing tools and more. you can keep everything cohesive of on brand invoices and get paid easily with online payments. So it's not just about selling physical or digital goods, you can also sell your services. You can also upload video content and have a video library. You can showcast these all and beautiful video pages, but then you can sell access to that video library of payall to your content, which is perfect for online courses, exclusive tutorials, and premium workshops Go to squarespace dot com slash upgrade and you can sign up for a free trial today. and when you're ready to launch, use the code upgrade to save ten percent off your first purchase of a website or domain. That is squarespace d. com slash upgrade and the offer code upgrade, that will get you ten percent off your first purchase and show your support for the show. Now thanks to Squarespace for the support of this show and all of relay Room aroundound up time, Jason Snow. Yeah, Let's do it. Nine to five Mac is reporting via Digitimes saying that there will be a quote major redesign coming this year for the Apple Watch Ultra four with quote significant upgrades to sensing functions And Mac Rumors is reporting, according to Lka Instant Digital, that the Apple Watch X rumor is back saying that a big redesign is coming for it into twenty twenty seven for the series line of watches. kind of that would be what series the twelve thirirteen teen Yeah, because the last one was eleven, twelve is this year, That would be thirteen. Yeah Instant Digital implied that it could change the way that bands connect to the Apple Watch, which would mean compatibility of existing watch bands will finally end. Mark Goher's original reporting for this big redesign, which was that he was expecting would have came at the ten year anniversary, but it didn't come would be for a magnetic band attachment, thinner case and a micro LED screen Mac Rumors points out that historically Apple has revised the design of the Apple Watch kind of around every three years. So next year would be the time for a change of some kind if they're going to finally pull the trigger on this bigger design By the way, I I got an email from somebody who wanted to pedantically point out that Watch bands magnets in them I don't think they do I don't. I got that emo too and I think that person's wrong. I don't believe the Apple Watch ban has a magnine in I don't I mean, I don't care because what it does is it slides in and there's like a little tooth and it kind of clicks and then you have to push it back out again. So it's primarily a physical attachment to the watch and what this report is suggesting is that it would be primarily a magnetic attachment to the watch. the difference. The challenge there is that if you don't have any physical guuiding principle there U you risk having your watch pop off. under force, which is not great. Yeah, I wonder how they're going to do it. Like I've always been dubious of magnetic, but the Nintendo Switch two has isag the joycons magnetically attach and those things do not come off. So, you know, there is there is a way to do it, but then, you know, like Nintendo has this big like physical switch that you kind of pull and it provides enough will come off Um I'm intrigued of how that's going to work and if it's going to be better. Y I want to hear, I mean, I heard you talk about this unconnected last week. The idea is What's the reason to give here And honestly, it could be as simple as We have a new design And so it, you know, we weren't going to be constrained. We've we've designed a twelve of these with the exact same thirteen of these with the exact same And we're not going to do it anymore becausecause we wanted to be unconstrained so we could create an entirely new design That's enough But I do wonder There have been lots of rumors about forever about the idea could you put some intelligence in the band And if they that would be a real reason to do this, right? to have a new band format that allowed them to potentially put sensors in the band, notot necessarily even I know we always talk about like the blood sugar or whatever, but like if they can make For example, what if they can take some sensors out of the watch or change sensors in the watch because they'll be supplemented by sensors on the opposite side of the wrist I'm sure they've experimented with this and maybe they've just decided it's totally not worth it. Current format, you can't do it because It's just not. It's not made for that Could there be a new format? There's no way to transmit data it just doesn't or power. Yeah. I mean, you could create like a powered band, but then you're like charging your band and it's just not going to make any sense. But they could so that would be an interesting thing they could do. But they could also just simply say You know what It's time to do something new. And we've built so many of these based on I, if you think about it, that original Apple Watch whichich was announced in twenty fourteen A band from that fits in a current series watch So That's a long time to be designing slightly different versions of the watch And it constrains their design. It undoubtedly does. So if they want to they could break compatibility, When these rumors were out there a few years ago, I was a little more bummed out about breaking compatibility, but as the years go on, I am less and less concern about it because it's like It's been a good run, everybody Right? Yes. It's been a good run. And if we get a significant redesign for the Apple Watch, I will happily let go I I want it to look different like in a meaningful way and because I just I I'm very tired of the the overall look now I'm really intrigued about The Apple Watch Ultra four Like what is that going to be a precursor to this? or like what are they going to do with that? right? That's coming this year expectedly. Right. And what is a significant upgrade to sensing function? L what does that mean Yeah, what is it better sensors? Is it different sensors It's a big watch. so packing them in there, it sort of makes sense for that It's funny because I wasn't sure that I would be upgrading my App Watch this year because I'm expecting to buy two iPhones Um but maybe they'll get me, you know, mayaybe they'll get me. This is look, Apple didn't become a company that's worth a gazillion dollars by making products you don't want to buy Exactly. I mean there was a period, but they learned their lesson Last week, Indian based supplier Tata Electronics suffered a large data breach that with it has exposed imagery and details of the upcoming iPhone eighteen pro These images have been spreading across the dark web, JOason with some leaking out more broadly. One of there is a video that's got circulated a bunch of a drop test of a silver version of the eighteen Pro Among these leaks though are details on suppliers, parts and specifications of the upcoming iPhones which Apple is really not happy about. I think they seem to I would think that they care a lot more about the parts information and the supplier information than the images because like It just looks like the iPhone seventeen P Yeah, not great, but I was surprised like keep reading this's like, o, this doesn't happen. Like I'm surprised this doesn't happen more. They've got so many companies they're working with. Well, it I assume that what this is is since This is a different company in a different country that this is going to get a bunch of people yelled at. about Why they why this happened there and it doesn't happen in their other factories. Y And somebody will get in trouble. And their policies will change and they'll tighten up their privacy because they know that Apple is mad and I that's what I we accept some amount of leakage, but you're right. There's certain kinds of things that leak out and certain kinds of things that don't And this is unusual in that way. So we'll just have to see how they deal with it. but that was my thought is that somebody's Somebody's going to get yelled at. It's an investigation, somebody's going to get fired. That's what's going to happen. Mark Garan is reporting on Apple's spring twenty twenty seven hardware lineup that includes new iPad pros and a new MacBook pro The iPad Pro update will mostly focus on the internals. There will be faster processes, presumably the M six And the vapor chamber cooling will be coming to the iPad, I think for the first time. So that's cool. I think My iPhone did not get hot until I put the bit on it When I put the biter on it, it got hot. It' the first time I it got really hot So that vapor chamber cooling in the seventeen Pro is the real deal. likeike they did a good job there. The MacBook Pro that we're talking about here in spring twenty twenty seven We'll have a revamped design. It'll be the entry level model. So the fourteen inch is what we're talking about here Well it's a fourteen inchase model. Yeah, right? Yes. sorry.'re tal We're talking about the M five one MacBook Pro. So this will be An M six or maybe an M seven, depending on timing, but it's that base model that doesn't have the Pro or Max chip in it. Yeah. This design, it will be more in line with whatever the touchscreen model of the Mac Pro looks like whenever that may happen. someome months before it will be introduced I think in his reporting, Mark is being opaque about what processor will be in this redesigned base model. So in the report, he mentions, quote, that Apple had already finished work months ago on a refreshed entry level MacBook proro which has been planned for this year with the current design and a new base M six chip. Then he talks about Apple quote aiming to debut its first M seven processor as early as the first half of the next year as well. It's targeting a fast transition from the coming M six generation Assumedably this means there will be an M six this year and then an M seven, maybe six months later And that is what would be in this M Pro redesign. but I don't think his reporting is clear. and I think that is a function of the fact that maybe ople doesn't know. I think maybe what they're going O at least the people it's unsettled enough that the people that Mark Eerman is talking to don't know or they don't know if what they've heard is the latest My guess would be that it would be an M six and then put an M seven in it, but they don't necessarily have to put it in it like right away because they will have just turned that one over. Yeah So You know I don't know what the timing is and maybe the MacBook proro just It doesn't get the base M six. It just goes to M seven and maybe there's M six pro max chips that go into the bigger ones. I don't know. No M six pro Max chips. they don't then they just jump it completely I forgot about that part. Yes.. Oh, it's the I'm thinking of the M five ultra is still assumedably coming, right? There was in the That would be that would be for the Max studio. I just I knew there was a hangover chip of some description and that is the one It's very hangover chip. confusing right now It's a much a less popular movie. Maybe mayaybe the base M six just goes in the iPads and they just move on fast Maybe, you know, maybe or maybe it's they put in the in MacBook Air and I don't know. I mean, I think you could do it. I think there's no reason not to Unless the M six and M seven are coming so close together that My feeling is that probably some of these products have already been designed, right? Like the M six iPad Pro and the M six low end Maco Pro and maybe the M six MacBook Air have already been designed. He maybe the reason about they haven't killed the M six entirely Be they could right? There's like a scenario here where you just kill the M six And the thing that you used to call M seven And they're not doing that. That's what I'm wondering. Yeah, I guess I guess they're not doing that. but it's They're not. It's not Clear I mean, obviously because we don't know, but and I could like this this MacBook Pro with an M six chip. And what's the point doing this if you're going to bring out the M seven one within like six months, like I don't Why do that? It's a good question. I mean, my answer would be they already designed the M six versions here and it's good enough And it takes the pressure off of whenever they have to ship the base M seven. And maybe they've got a contract with TSMC for these chips on their line and they need to produce them Yeah Obviously we't know the reason They could have swept the whole generation under under the rug if they wanted to and they didn't. So they've got a reason Yeah We'll see. Macroom is just reporting that developerint designer Sam Henry Gold discovered some code in IOS twenty seven that could be referring to the airPods of a camera The code mentions a product code named B seven hundred nineero that can relay two images from cameras on either side of a user's head Of course, this could also be for smart glasses, but feels more likely to be AirPods based on the timeline we expect this product Mcrumers also reported though that alak her by name of Kotsumi says that this product, the airPods of a camera, has now been suspended But no more information Yeah, I think Germman also reported that this product was originally targeted for the end of this year and now it's being talked about for next year, end of next year. Like they pushed it back a whole year. I'm starting to wonder if AI wearables of cameras have a future in like I think There's a there's a there's a stigma forming again, right that I think we got away from it. peopleeople were excited about the meteta Raybands and now everyone's upset about the meteta Raybands. you know? So This is why I think it's interesting that that the airPods with the camera thing recently resolved to be like, well, these are not cameras for taking pictures their cameras to feed information into AI for data purposes And I do wonder if that is foreshadowing a future method of selling these devices as like, no, no Those aren't cameras. You can't take pictures with them. They're just sensors. I just don't know if that's a thing you can get people to understand. I don't I don't know. I mean, Ale Apple could try. Apple could say we're different. We're not letting people peep but They're just fe These aren cameras. These are just cameras for AI is like maybe these Th are not Mike theseese aren't cameras. theseese are sensors. Yeah If they look like look. I mean, marketing is all about selling people on things that they don't want. So we'll we'll see. But you you may be right. I mean, I think right now the big issue is First off, we all have cameras in our pocket. I know. So you you could take those you could take those. Well, no, but the counter argument would be, I've got a camera in my pocket. I can take it out if I need to Do I need something that's always hanging around on my face or in my ears? Or is that good enough? As an owner of them. It is an incredible technology to be able to take pictures in moments like that However, I now don't feel comfortable wearing my meta ray bands anymore. because tide has changed on it, which is very upsetting for me because they were expensive, but like I've just kind of led Yeah, so so I think that's the question is If you're Apple or anybody else, you've got to kind of like See where it goes. right? You want to you don't want to be left behind if it turns out that it's okay And again, I wouldn't put it past Apple to try to kind of say tell a privacy story, right? And like we're not using these for those reasons. But I think the bottom line is The way you get people to wear those is by providing real benefit. from having them like serious benefits from having them And what I've seen So far of like visual intelligence and Apple sort of navigation stuff and all of that uh, when you're in GPS shadows and I'm toall. city. Big city with tall buildings Like I just don't know if it's there. That's Okay. Sell me on why I need to wear those glasses or seell me on why I need to have those airPods that have the cameras in them What's my big benefit Again, if the best you can gin up, if the best that the wizards of Silicon Valley can gin up. is I'm going to ask this dog what kind of dog it is when their owner is standing right there If that's the best they can do That ain't it's going to happen. Take a picture of this band poster and add it to your talent. like no like yeah. Well at that point. Yeahah. and again Again If you really want to do that, take out your phone. Like why am I buying a whole thing and charging it and all of that? What is the ongoing benefit of feeding It may be that they have an answer, which is like, we're going to log who you talk to and make notes so you can go back later and say, when did I talk to that person in the real world like it like it was a note or a message on your phone Do it in a way that Apple says is private and secure and contextual and consensual and all of these things, right? They could try that But like That's what it's going to take. It's going to take something like a major benefit for society to accept this. Just saying, oh, you can just look wherever and snap a picture is not, I think, enough and it thiss time the lawyer up Ss fuck We haven't had a chance to get back to this. I promise we'll get back to it and we're not going to talk about it in enough detail today, but Apple and the EU They've been exchanging a war of words with Siri AI in the DMA. I'm going to put a link in the show notes to a really good post that Michael Si has been adding to over time kind of like as this story has been unfolding, so I'll put that in to the notes. But essentially, Apple is saying that they want to work with the EU and are willing to create a new technology to allow for secure interoperability with AI agents, right? It's like the technology is called Trusted system agent is the technology they proposed Apple said they don't want to put the work in to it until they're told it will be approved by the EU The EU is saying they cannot approve it until they see it working and they will not just allow Apple to bring Sira AI to the region in the meantime, which is what Apple want to do. Apple want to launch Siri AI, spend a year and a half to make this technology and then ship it. I'll get to this in more in a second The Financial Times is now reporting that Tim Cook had a quote constructive meeting with Henna Verkenen, who is the executive Vice presresident of the European Commission for Technological Sovereignty, Security and Democracy. Business card. Henah, I feel like Yeah, you've really gone for it. According to the FT, quote, the meeting included a discussion of how Apple can launch its reinented serory in Europe while avoiding millions of dollars in fines for violating the bloc's flagship competition rules, according to two people familiar with the talks Who knows where this leads, but Cook is settling nicely into his diplomacy role for Apple. Someone at the European Commission told the FT that the trusted system agent technology that Apple proposed was not presented to them in a way that they considered to be any more than just a concept And they believe that Apple wanted to get a green light on this to allow them to delay getting full compliance and that they would then have kind of like nearly two years of competitive advantage of its users esssentially rendering the competition useless by the time they shiip the feature which is In reflection, kind of like alternative app marketplaces, right they're essentially useless because peoplee choose the app store. and I think Europe want to kind of avoid that. but who knows where this is going, but it's interesting that There's been a war of words, I would say, between Apple and the European Union over the last month And at least there is some constructive conversation going on between the two entities currently. And it seems that the UK be the next in pushing Apple to offer alternative payment methods The CMA, the competition Markets Authority has now said that this is something that they want. We'll see what comes with this. It doesn't appear that they're asking for alternative app marketplaces, just the like give people different ways to pay Nevertheless, though, from my perspective pointless because continue to levy the convoluted fees that they have in every other market. that they're forced to do this, so it kind of amounts to nothing other than maybe some massive companies saving zero point six percent, right? Like doesn't really seem to do anything for competition because no one No one's got the guts to make them do something more The only person who has had the guts, I think so far is Jeorge Ivon Gonzazz Rogers But that's That's all kind of like filtering back through the Spreme Court. We'll talk about that The the Spreme Ct now, yeah yeah exactly. Exactly. was That was the thing that actually happened last Tuesday. so we didn't talk about it. The Supremeourt took the case in Apple versus Epic. and what they what they wanted only and they was very specific only thing that they're going to judge because Apple wants to be like, this whole court is out of order. Thrw it all out. You're out The Supreme Court was like, we will judge this one thing, which is Can Judge Gonzalees Rogers hold Apple in contempt? Remember, that was what she did. is she said, look, you have been in contempt and now I'm going to set the rules She ruled them in contempt because she like they're response to her order was not reflecting the spirit of her order but instead got very technical in a way that minimized what they had to do And Apple's argument that the Supreme Court said they were willing to hear was essentially What do you mean the spirit of the law The letter of the law is the letter of the law. If you didn't want us to do it, tell us, but we can't like You may disagree with what we did, but to hold us in contempt when Everything we did was to the letter of your order is is not right which is just weasly enough that it might work ' see. But that's the only thing that the Supreme Ct is judging in that case. They're not. Apple again wants them to be like, throw everything out. We're fine. And the Supreme Court, even, you know, even the S sure courourt was like, no, no, But we are intrigued by this issue of Can she Is Apple's obvious contempt for the ruling not contempt of court if they're still pedantically following the letter of the law, even though they know what she's asking for. and they refuseed to give it to her I don't know if this will go the way Apple hopes, but it's interesting. and so that means we're going to get a Supreme Court argument from Apple's lawyers, which is also interesting So that's all to come in the next court term. I don't know why this it feels weird to me, but it does about lawyers arguing about how lawyers interpret Like how Judges arguing about how judges interpret law There's just like something Ver like Yeah circular about this. That's that's the A lot of the Supreme Court stuff is that though. It's like was this was this judge right to judge it this way? We would judge if the judge was right judge jud is the judges judgment of all Yeah. And then and then what they'll do, I mean, if I had to throw out just a quick prediction is they'll say that Apple has some merit and the Supreme Ct will remand this back to Judge Gonzalees Rogers. with an instruction and the instruction will probably be like, why don't you tell Apple, you know, we're going to say that Apple isn't in contempt And why don't you give them a new order Yeah and then and be basically be more specific And what that, I think would do is it would mean that her order of Apple having to take much less percentage would be set aside And she would have to give them a new chance to make a new Um a new way to follow her orders, perhaps based on a new set of orders from her Um That's my guess is it's kind of going to be a big nothing and that's just going to extend this and run out the clock even further This episode is brought to you by our friends over at Factor It's been a long day and then the hunger strikes. 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Jason, can you tell me a little bit about You know, how factor help save time as well as the, you know, what you like about the quality of the ingredients? Oh, well I mean The way you save time is you make it something you can microwave.. So these things are microwaveable in two or three minutes. And so you know, it's lunchtime and you need to eat or maybe even work at your desk and get back to it. And the last thing you want to do is you know, heat up a pan or heat up the oven or you know, do you have something in the fridge that you can make a sandwich with or whatever? And with this, you know, two or three minutes later you're done. and like there are other meals that you can microwave that will be done in two or three minutes. But the other thing that impresses me about Factor is the quality of their ingredients. They have it out about how to get microwave stuff, even meat to taste good after two or three minutes. And that's the trick, right? Like like Lauren doesn't eat microwave reheated chicken because she hates the taste. but she will eat factor chicken meals because I have some theories about what Factor is doing. I don't think they cook them all the way. I think they let them finish their cooking in the microwave. That's just my theory But like whatever they've done, the stuff that comes out tastes good in a way that reheated leftovers, for example, do not And u And so yeah, I'm very impressed and that's why they they don't stay in my fridge for very long Head to factactorMeals dot com slash upgrade fifty off and use the code upgrade fifty off to get fifty percent off from free daily greens per box with news subscription only while supplies last until seeptember twenty seventh, twenty twenty six. See the website for more details. That's factorMeals dot com slash upgrade fifty off and the code upgrade fifty off. thanks to factactor for the support of this show and all of relay. It is time for some ask upgrade questions John Wrightsiner says, Do you think the rising cost of storage components will cause Apple to raise the price of iCloud storage Believe it or not, no, this is a no. Storage components aren't really going up, SSDs are going up and cloud storage in bulk is spinning hard drives, I think still and I think those are not going up because they don't use RAM. Really, and they don't use processors, really, they're just spinning diskss. and I don't think the spinning hard drive. industry I mean, I haven't checked the prices on spinning if the prices on spinning hard drives are going up, then sure. I think maybe. Well I've been looking at some spinning hard drives prices because I'm looking at technology stuff. Jason, they're so expensive. Yeah, and some of that maybe they're like,h, we got them where we want to get and raise the prices of spinning hard just putting them up because they can't. I know spinning hard drives have RAM, but they don't have very much RAM. likeike okay John, here's the answer. Yeah If they can get away with it, they will because they just want more money I think about that. I think We can expect little increases in lots of places to try and offset the increases they're trying to stop from happening, you know? Like They want to do what they can do to make sure that they don't have to put up like the iPhone as much as possible. So they increase the price in the Apple TV by twice. And then you know, it's like put iCloud up by a dollar. You just made millions and millions of dollars, you know, I think it all go in. know the margins are really huge in Apple Services business Um they're varied Yeah like Apple has not been afraid to raise cost of its services. and so perhaps that will continue It wouldn't surprise me, but that's not just about components. it's about inflation and about finding places to get your profit margin to go up. So You know, Anyway, I If the prices of hard drives are going up, I would say it's probably more about opportunism than actual physical costs, but Why not make it more expensive everything else is? Chris says, I have an archive of pre iPhone digital photos that I want my wife and I to have access to via Apple phhotos. I've been procrastinating about uploading them to a shared library for as long as shared libraries have been a thing I haven't because I don't like having my photos split across two libraries I'm wondering if the full resolution shared album feature in IOS twenty seven. makes having a shared library mostly redundant Is there anything I'd been missing out on by using the shared album approach I want to start by saying, I don't understand I don't like having my photos split across two libraries That's not how shared the shared library works The shared library, you have a library and it has photos that are in two states.. One of which is it's just in your library. and the other is that it's a shared photo. It's in the shared space. This is what Chris is saying though, right? Depending on so okay, me and Aa have a shared library and everything goes in the library, right? Yeah. So we have one photo library, essentially and we share it I think that there are some people who are like, I don't want to share all of my photos with someone. even you don't have to do it that way, but I think yeah, I think that's the thinking. But that's what I'm saying is there's a setting for that. Yeah I have it not contribute to a shared library and you can choose. I just want to be clear here I don't like having my photos split across two libraries is not the right way to phrase this Yeah. I don't like having to maintain which ones are shared and which ones are not. L I get that, but like it's not like you have two different libraries and you open one and the photos are over there and you open another. Apple has made it so that you can view one or the other or both of the photos that are in those states. And the advantage of that is that your partner also has access to the ones that are in the shared state and they can contribute and they can choose to not contribute some of them. And it all works together because they're all kind of shared and you have access to all the features between them. If you use the new Everybody updates to twenty seven when it comes out. The new feature of shared libraries is where it's full resz Yeah, it's full res, but it's in the shared in your partner's library, it's in the shared albums thing because it's a shared album and not a shared library. And if they want it in their library, they will need to import it into their library in order to do things with it at which point there are now two photos in your shared iCloud space if you're doing that. And I don't think that those dedupe, I think that that's just more ICloud Space And it creates that now your partner has to choose if they want to import them or or just look at them and what do they want to do with them? So like I think they' very different features. I don't think that this makes having a shared library redundant at all. However, if you're somebody like Chris who is like, I just don't want to do shared libraries because it's too complicated for me Even though I would argue it's really not that complicated. But if it's too much of a mess for you and you don't want to do it Yes, the beauty of the new shhared albums is that they are high res, they're full res so you can get those photos, share them with friends. We did a we did a boat ride when we were in London. for relay ten And everybody who was on the boat ride on Jeremy Burgge's boat. Uh There was like a shared album And like, it's great, but it's not Fz or you know I have other events like that where Apple Sappy people and I have done something and we've made a little shared album I love that because now I know that those photos that I can get out of there are full resolution and it's not a person I'm going to share my library with. That part of it is good. So you could use it this way. It gives you another tool in the arsenal, but like unless You and your partner have very specific ways that you want to handle your photo libraries. The shared phhoto library is, I think, for most people, M better solution, certainly. This does not make that redundant at all. I'll say for me like I you know, saying about like just just the kind of the shared phottal library thing, you know, like why would you use it? I love that it's automatic So because Edina and I want to do this, I really like that I don't have to work to add photos to a library or to an album in this case that Chris is presenting as maybe a would want to do Um I like that what you know, both me and Adin know, it's only about just removing the photos that we don't want to have in the shared library Owise it's like inccredible. L we have all these photos, especially since we had a kid, right? But we were doing it from before anyway because we were doing things together, right? goingo to places together, doing things together. It made sense to just We'll just share all of our photos. And I love that it's in the camera and all that kind of stuff. So I think it's great. but You know I would say go for it, but if you don't want to do it, then I don't know, create your Ched album in full resolution. It depends. I mean, if this is a bunch of old photos that you're you're Your wife might want to look at but doesn't need to do anything with and doesn't need to maintain it in any way then it's probably fine, right? Like I think it's But But the question is, does it make it mostly redundant? And I say absolutely not There are going to be this may be a case where For this particular set of photos, You don't need to bother with that because you can just toss them in here. But I think the ongoing photos of your life and having family members be able to take photos at the same place and at different places and have them all just kind of come together I think that is that's great. We used to have to do a photo merge at the end of the year when we would work on our calendar for next year, where Lauren would have to import all her photos that she'd taken over the year into my photo library so we would have them all in one place so that we could build a calendar. And that's so dumb And yeah, now you could make it like a two step process where she creates U shared library of her photos for the year that she wants to put in consideration and then come to my computer and drag them in and now we've got We've got that, but like Our system is better because we just throw most of our photos in the same bin together and You know, I only turn that feature off when I'm like shooting pictures of people at WWDC or something like that where it' like, no, she doesn't even need this and we don't need this in the shared library. But So I think it's got a lot of benefits, but not necessarily for all instances Next question comes from Jason who says N me, not you. I've read that twenty six point six will pre index the iPhone so that when users update to IOS twenty seven in the fall, the Apple intelligence features will be ready to go. Is the index included in an iCloud backup? or will my phone need to be reindexed when I upgrade to the eighteen Pro four days after IOS twenty seven release? Yes. When you get a new device, the index has to be built again. That's just how it works. That's because they do all that stuff on device and they don't want to has to be done again. It's not in It's not the backup. Not to my knowledge It's never been before. It's never ever been before I assume it would I just assumed it would have to be. So like I know that I know the indexing was the thing, but this new spot like spot like indexing takes over a week. to do They've got to findal way to do this, to have it transferred I mean, this is a thing they worked out with faces, right? Like faces in photos was like a no problem No. I mean, this this is the thing with photos is anything you manually tag is marked. So if you manually tag a face as being a person Yeah. That stuff crosses over, but theial facial analysis does not I don't understand the difference. The way Apple's photo stuff works L last time I checked, but I don't think it's changed is they rescan your entire photo library on a new device. Every device you own has a different scan But if you Mark a photo being If if you say Um This is a this is this person because it'll ask you like, is this this person That Han interaction, identifying a face Sinks is my understanding. But the actual like mass scanning data does not sing. They need to work out a way to syninkc these things over from device to device if you're do inline Cld backup. Like I'm sorry, this is ridiculous. This is ridiculous. Like there's something in here we don't know about that makes it more portable this time. But like right now all your devices because this is the problem is like is your new device. Does it have access to the same information? If you if you Let me give you an example Um If you don't have all that email on your new device, but it's got the transfer of the data from the email that you had, now it's got things that are not on the device that it thinks it knows about And then it has to go get them. And like but this, I agree. there is also a privacy thing here where Apple's decided we're never going to let all this intensive metadata off your device. And if they put it in the backup Th then it's off your device. And I know and encryption or whatever. But they've found ways to deal with that with health, right? Like the health information is in the backup And that feels much more private to me than my for spotlight index. So I hope they work this out because That will be Re annoying. Well, it's this is the balance between Uh, functionality and speed and feeleeling, I think philosophically like that stuff shouldn't leave your device because it's device specific But yeah, so this pre All twenty six six, not just IOS. And so Obviously what they want is If it's if it's a brand new device you get that week, you're going to have to go through the whole thing that we already have to go through where everything gets indexed. Like that that will continue, I think, as far as I can tell. that will continue. But that MCU update to twenty seven will pick up that should pick up that index and be fine and you're probably not getting a new Mac that day.s This pre indexing is really for devices that are going to stay are going to just update and it'll be available. If you replace your device you're resetting the clock, basically zero days since the last accident at the factory They need to work this out in my opinion all this information should be encrypted and shared from iCloud backup to iCloud backup. Even if Do something where you create A device to device Connection to move this information over. Well, and you're saying it's devices of a kind too. So it's like one iPhone to the other. So all the apps with all the set the issue we're trying to do this from the iPhone to the Mac for what you mentioned, right? You're not going to have the same apps. You're not going to have the sameat Exactly. But like what generally my I should not be getting a different experience if I'm choosing to do a backup. Right. My new iPhone and my old iPhone should basically be the same. so they should be able to transfer that information. Yeah. They should get away. I just I think I think I have heard, I think somebody I know asked Apple about this and they were basically said, you know, that's not how we do it. U I would love to be proven wrong if they've invented a new way to do this that will solve this problem, but that's not what I'm hearing Please I'll find a way Find a way. There is a will from me, so I would like you to find a way, you know? Great. tennis how that works It'd be so much better and ofhing to do the indexing every time. Beause also it's like a bad experience for users, right? Be their battery is bad, like the phone works slow. like it's not a great already not a great first run experience and I expect that this indexing is much more intensive than the one it's replacing. anyway Finally, Amar asks, with Apple focusing heavily on resizable iPhone apps in iOS twenty seven? So landscape apps on iPhone, resizable apps in iPhone mirring on the Mac. Is it safe to assume that the foldable iPhone will not run iPad apps in full screen on the inner display, but in fact, iPhone apps? Yes. Yeah Most iPhone apps are iPad apps. Sure. So I just don't think this is I think this is a It's a distinction almost without a difference. I think though the idea is, yes, these are going to be iPhone apps that have new size classes and new size resizing functionality that will allow them to adapt to these smaller screens that are smaller than any iPad has been in the end, I don't know. like These are all iPad apps are basically iOS apps with larger windows, right? Like they're all the same. So I'm not too concerned about this detailed, but yes, if if If they didn't need to do anything because they were just going to use the iPad stuff, they wouldn't have rolled out a whole bunch of new technology to do this, but they have, which implies that what they're really saying is And there's a reason for that too, right? whichich is like there's still apps that like they prioritize the iPhone or they're only on the iPhone. Apple's basically saying, no, you need to do this too now It may benefit the iPad as well. I think it will because now a bunch of other apps that just didn't bother before are going to have to deal with Bigger. sccreen sizes But yes, I think that's one hundred percent true that this wouldn't have been the case if they were just picking up iPad apps. This is not that. This is going to be that iPhone that iPhone, think of your iPhone app getting bigger, not your iPad app getting smaller. Yeah. And if there are iPad only experiences they'm going to run on this foalding iPhone whichich I think was a thing that people hoped, right? It would be, you know, OS on the outside, iPadOS on the inside. That's not that's not It's not going to be's not Well, yeah, and the multitask is going to work the same. like or there's if there's split well, there's going to be like split view probably there will be some multi app features, but they're not going to be Pad multitasking. Its to be a new one what we need or the old one? another new w is what we need a new multitasking thing because hey, they didn't do this year. so, you know, heres here's another one. Let's do that instead. They did do it this year. We just haven't seen it yet. That's how I geta. That's how I geta. You can send us your questions and also your feedback and follow up by going to upgradefeedback. com I would like to thank our members who support us every week of uppgrade pllus. go to get upgradeplus. com and you can get longer ad free versions of this show. eachach and every week You can find us on YouTube by searching for the upgrade podcast. I'd like to thank our sponsors of this week's episode that is Deckagon, Squarespace and Factor. But most of all, I'd like to thank you for listening. Until then Until next week, I should say, say goodbye Jesus now by my curntly