The Cost of High Performance Computing

Support for the show comes from Plaud. If you're an executive, small business owner, project manager, journalist, or anyone whose work depends on getting the details right, you can't afford to have information misquoted or forgotten or taken out of context. Plaud is designed to help. Plaud combines dedicated recording hardware with AI powered transcription and summarization helping create a searchable record of important conversations Whether you're conducting interviews or leading meetings, or managing clients discussions, Plaud makes it easier to find and revisit key information when you need it. Visit pllaod. ai slash Waveform to learn more and use the Waveform code to get up to fifteen percent off Here's a question. What if women's healthcare was actually built around women Mount Sinai is proud to answer the call. announcing our new Carolyn Rowan Center for Women's Health and Wellness The future of womomen's healthcare in New York City, O destination where leading specialists, evidence based medicine, and a whole person approach come together under one roof to support your health and wellness at every stage of life No more fragmented care, no more dead ends, just seamless transformative women's health carere designed around who you are and where you're going We get you And we've got you The Carlyn Rowan Center for Women's Health and Wellness at Mount Sinai We find a way Wouldn't it be cool if we had some sort of protocol All the games could be hosted on. Stop line. There we go. Stop Everyone's computers could run this protocol to help seed these. Yo what's up people of the Innet? Welcome back to another episode of the Wayform Podcast. We're your host. I'marque. Yo what is up people of the Internet? Welcome back to another episode of Way Fform P podcast. We're your hosts. I'marque And I'm Andrew And that's the chair where David would be sitting if the brid if the bridge wasn't closed. So he is on the way and he'll be here soon. And at some point video users will just see him appear in his seat. And I guess audio users will hear him. Yes, we're at a tricky day where you have a game tonight so we have to leave early and also it is going to be one of the hottest days of the year. So we decided to record a little early That got screwed up with traffic, and the goal of today's podcast is to not melt by the end because the AC is off. I don't think people realize or maybe we said it, but maybe they've forgotten that we turn the air conditioner off in this studio every time we record because, you know, for you, for your ears, we want it to sound good and our micses, you know, no background noise, all that fun stuff. But that also means that if it's one hundred three degrees outside, like it's going to be for the next three days That means that the temperature of this room slowly goes up as we record And there's a good chance that in two hours it will be Way different in here. We turn the AC on before we come in so that it's cool, but you know We do this for you. This's what we do for you. Isn't there a saying like slow boil the frog or something like that? just frogs O the frogs. The frogs. Well, but we still notice it get hotter. The thing is the frog the frog, if you change the temperature slow enough, doesn't notice that it's getting hot. Have you guys not heard this? No. Really? Yeah, I it was like a thing. like you slow there' like a frog. So a frog, I guess is not particularly sensitive to temperature changes if it's slow enough. So you can slowly increase the temperature of the water and the frog will not get out of the water until you're literally boiling. Aarent Jeff said because he you felt bad that you were boiling frog. I just googled it and it is a myth. and It's a my we can escape the water if it gets uncomfortably hot. Okay, that's good That's really good to hear For anyone that was thinking about boiling frogs? Well it's still a common saying community today. Still a common saying, defeinitely a myth. good that's good that it's a myth. Theres difference is We can't stop recording this podcast. So we will boil and cannot get out. Yeah, for sure. Okay, in today's episode, we will have Apples inccreased prices across the board. I know they tried to sneak that out on a Thursday, but Jokes on you guys, we record every week, so we're talking about it this time. But there's also a first look at the new galaxy Fold wide Pol Star leaving the US and PlayStation killing physical diss, and we're wrapp it all up with some AI companies that we don't really understand Very confused But first, Did they even test this? Yes, they did Yes, they did. It was funny. we had a sort of a a mini tech support this morning with Google Docs, which is how we organize all of our podcasts docs and notes and stuff And I don't know if you've used a Google product in the last couple of months, you've probably seen like a lot of Gemini logos everywhere Like maybe too many. And one of them was really annoying at the bottom of Google Docs And I don't know if you've been annoyed by that bottom ton for Foating button that covers up maybe the last three lines of all your documents.. And then when you go and try and select something there, it widens into this big search bar essentially. Describe any changes you want to make. Looks like you're trying to write a document. on some clipp isues So so if you want to get rid of it, you can. There's a Gemini button at the top of Google Docs and you go down to bottom barb preferences and you can turn it off which is I think they added that probably at some point because they did test it and realized you should be to turn that off. Yeah. I mean, I've hated it for a while and I Loki didn't notice the Gemini menu bar thing. And then I saw Hank Green tweet about it yesterday. and I was like, I do really hate this. Yeah. And then Marquz this morning went Look, you can turn it off and you both collectively turned it off. There's still a Gemini button in the top right corner. There's still Gemini things all over the rest of your Google products, but that one, you can make it go away. There is still When you click the image button, The first menu option is still generate an image new instead of upload from compomuter. and I still click it every single time I try and put a photo in our pod outline and it dries me insane. It's very, very sad, but I'm sure that bottom thing, plenty of people won't turn it off and they'll get plenty of hake clicks to make it seem like people are using it But for all you listeners out there, if you didn't want it and you didn't notice that. You can turn it off I know. Now you know. All right, let's get into Google price likekes. or sorry, Apple Apple price What you know that we know goobs, thats software Yeah, Apple price. So last week at some point during Thursday, Apple, which they'd warned us about this, but they just went through, the Apple store went down briefly, and then it came back up and there were a bunch of new prices basically all of their products, almost every single hardware product that they sell Is this like The top three worst apple store went down d The tweets were so funny. It was like Apple stores down. What are they cooking? What's coming next? And then there's just like, tweets right above it like Price store hightes all the different changes. It's back. Yeah, the store comes back live and base prices, upgrade prices, tons of prices for all the different products that they sell have gone up iPhone prices notably, are unchanged. That was one thing that people were thinking would go up But the things that did go up are Macs, iPads, Apple TV's, H pods, Vision Pros, across the board, prices are all higher. Now I looked at these price increases And they're kind of interesting. They're kind of spread out across the board. Some of them I mentioned on Twitter, someome of them are higher than I expected them to be. someome of them are lower than I expected them to be. We know that the price increases are because of the RAM shortages and just how expensive it is to put memory in anything these days. And some of these products do have a lot of memory and some of them don't. But that does not seem to directly correlate with how high the price went up. It seems like more about Well, it's sort of an efficient balance. I meanbe this is a Tim Cook thing of Some products are higher volume and the price didn't go up as much. Some prices are lower volume, but the price went up more. someome prices went up I think more than they had to in order to make up for other prices not going up as much as they could. Would you say it's the opposite of higher volume possibly went up higher because like The one that sticks out here, right? Like Yeah there's some big ones. there's the the M three Ultra Max Studio went from four thousand dollars to five thousand three hundred dollars. thirteen hundred dollars price increase.. We saw the M four Max Studio, two thousand dollars twenty thousand five hundred dollars five hundred. That's crazy. Vision Pro Oly went up two hundred dollars. Yeah So that has to be because It's flopping so hard. No one's going to spend an extra doll or obviously ight It's like a compute. I think there's lot of factors. I think Vision Pro is already priced really high and the two hundred extra dollars might be fine to cover that. but also maybe if it was four thousand that would look really bad. Like there's optics they have to consider. there's supply chains stuff they have to consider Also, yes, Vision Pro is not selling very much, so maybe the price increase there doesn't do much for them. Whereas something like the MacBook No, which they're doing a ton of volume of, goes from five dollars ninety nine cents starting to six doll ninety nineents starting. Which means it's no longer like the crazy flaming good deal that it just was. It's still up Pretty good deal U But that one hundred bucks per unit will probably go further than the two hundred bucks per unit on the Vision Pro because Volume is totally different. U alsoso with things like the Max Studio, like the M three, what was the Ultra that went up by thirteen hundred bucks? I feel like people buying that that's like a business expense. like. e people doing that expect to be making their money back somehow by using the professional workflows with that. so they're willing like Apple' like those people will spend a little more and not it's fine. And we I think it was also pretty obvious we were going to see those specific price increases because Mac mini and Was it in March or May already got a price increase because you're seeing them sold out everywhere because of how' like price ratio of what they are. Y. So like this kind of, I mean, I think this obviously all comes down to compute again. It kind of reminds me of how we were talking about steam machine where like If you price something and subsidize it to where you're giving such good bang for your buck of just pure power in this RAM shortage, you're probably going to eat it because people are going to take it and use it for machine learning and not necessarily all the things that you make money off of. So that's one of the things I was wondering here is like, Does Apple see these price increases as like What is our best chance of People still buying the products but buying the products to use them as actual personal products, not AI machines. because Apple clearly is making plenty of money on hardware, but they're also making a ton of money on subscriptions and software people physically using the products. That's a commentary I've seen a lot is Ale's already been making a ton of money. Why do they have to increase prices at all? Why can't they just eat this? But one, I think The memory shortages and the price increases we've seen are re prettyt unprecedented. I don't know what Apple supply costs are, but I feel like they They just decided along with a lot of other companies, we have to raise prices Um, But yeah I don't know if they're thinking so much about what people are doing with the machines. I don't think they have much control over that. I think it's more just What do we think is a reasonably acceptable price increase for the target demographic of the product U someome other ones that stood out to me were iPad air goes from five doll ninety nine cents to seven do forty nineents for the eleven inchi padairir That's That's a different price bracket. to me, it feels like. five hundred ninety nine was like, All right, I can stomach this. This feels like I'm not going to get an iPad Pro, but I could get this nice mid price iPad air. Now seven hundred forty nineents starting is quite a big difference there. That doesn't feel like a good deal anymore. Yeah the iPad air went up more than the MacBook No. Yeah. ye. Yeah. So that's one hundred fifty bucks extra there U something like an Apple TV. This is my favorite one. Apple TV was one hundred and twenty nine. They were selling that box. Now it's one ninety nine That is a pretty I think percentage wise, might be the highest increase. That's close to like a forty. percent increase or something like that, that's pretty big. That's a totally different price bracket as well. Home pods though You know, not a lot of people buy home pods, Home pods are already expensive. The regular home pod goes from two do ninet nine to three hundred for nineents and the Homepod minini goes from ninety nine to one hundred twenty nine So some smaller, some bigger, just kind of a lot of cfts the board to consider. And I'm sure the supply chain meetings to decide all these new prices were super exciting. Maybe it's just Tim Cook with a spreadsheet just walking around going, do this, do this, do this, do this, do this Why does the Apple TV need to go up at all? I don't know. That slide need to go up at all? It's for of people that are using local AI on their Apple TV, right? I think that's another thing that people noticed is a lot of these products that don't have very much RAM at all were going up in price when they feel like they didn't have to, which I agree. But then a lot of the products that did have a ton of RAM were not going up as much as they feel like they could have So I think some of these price increases are literally to subsidize other lack of price increases, if that makes any sense. I also want to note that saying everything we've said so far Do does not mean they had to make price changes. does not mean that the price changes are clearly not for Apple to make more money. We all agree with that. There's just like the reasons why they're making more money' still trillion dollar make wants to make as much money as possible. Yeah. So obviously that's why they did it. This is I think it's like It's more, it's interesting to see what their reasonings were for things and how they were because this is just like such a broad or a all over the place in terms of where they increase prices. I still. So the number one seventy dollars is freez. That is a big one percentage wise. The question I've seen the most chatter about on social media is Are these permanent or temporary price increases And I have my thoughts. I think I actually believe that they are temporary, but I do see valid on both sides. I see both sides of this argument. I think I'll explain why I think they're temporary. I think a lot of the conversation, and we haven't gotten very many quotes from Apple, but a lot of the talk about these memory price increases has been like, this is unprecedented. We've literally never seen anything like this before. We've our hand has been forced this is like a spike in pricing This is not how we want to continue to sell our products. We want to get back to eventually regular pricing someday which all to me kind of implies like, We are rising prices here as long as this memory shortage slash AI data center boom is happening. And then once it's finally slowed, then we would love to go back down to regular prices which is, you know a good way to market as well But I think the other thing people are saying a lot of is Yeah, these are greedy tech companies O of course, they're going to leave the prices. not just tech as There' plenty of greedy companies all over the place that's just happen you know They're making tons of money. And if they aren't like negatively impacted too much by raising the prices, why raise them why lower them back down again Um And It I I see both sides of it. I kind of see it as like gas prices. It's like very closely tied to supply and demand. And if demand goes too far down, they can't leave the prices this high, especially if other competitors start lowering prices again So I would like to be right and say that they will bring prices down At some point months slash years into the future Who knows? History probably doesn't seem to be on that side. I don't I don't know a lot of examples of things going and coming back down when they see they're still selling. So there's a couple interesting examples there. And I used the price of gas as an example because like gas did spike And then it has started coming down, but it is more of a commodity But we've seen we've seen some products once in a while, like the Qest go down in price again. We've seen occasionally a smartphone model will go down in price again. Qest or sorry, Qest didn't go up Quest uil it did. until it did. But I'm talking about older devices. older devices Yeah I'm trying to think of like phones that dropped in price by like fifty to one hundred dollars. wasasn't there a Well I guess the iPhone doubled in storage but didn't go up in price. So like things happen sometimes where you're like, oh, I could see them increasing the price, but then they don't. U, so I don't know, there's not that many precedents for price spike and then price drop again I have never this. I think my most optimistic assumption is may I don't think any of these prices change on these specific items. I think Maybe when new versions of them come out, we could either see deepending on the global economics of what like pricing is they go back to their own normal or we see them doing the game of like H You know, now the the MacNo two starts at six ninety nine. but starts at a higher storage or whatever. like and that's our like This is higher. It's still a higher base barrier of entry, but we have more compute in it or like it's a more powerful machine. Therefore it's worth that price increase probably really could have went back down to the other. I dont that's like the the capitalist way of going back, but not really going back I don't see this going down at all by the first still happen. Welcome It's definitely just New Jersey and not New York City.. It's not like a World Cup or anything. yeah, definitely never traffic in New York City. Well, hey, at least the New York City traffic is generally predictably bad Well Jersey' like, are you in hell or are you in hell plus plus? Yeah, I was gonna to say, I don't think that These prices are we're talking about Apple prices, by the way. prices going up for context. Yeah ye. I don't think they're going back down just because Well, one, if it is temporary, it's temporary for a while Like it's going to be a minute because of how everything is right now. It's not like temporary for another c like another month or two. This is like it's looking like a year or two more so. L cycles Yeah. like it's going to be a while. And then on top of that Everywhere else in the world, technology is fairly expensive The United States has been pretty like hidden from those calls for a long time. And I think that like barrier is kind of coming down now I also think probably one of the best arguments that prices will stay and only continue to go up is just inflationary. Like if this lasts years, then by the time the crisis or whatever you want to call it is over. That's just the way that's just the new norm, I guess is the phrase people keep using. Like the prices of everything have gone up and now the NO iss sixllars ninet nineents That's just the way it is. It we made that video like a couple of months ago and it's already completely different. Yeah Yeah. that was yeah, the sentiment is like, remember that Three or four months when Apple had several of the best priced pieces of tech in the world. That was fun. I felt bad for Quinn at Snaazy Labs because he just made a video a month ago about how like the whole premise of Apple devices being more expensive than their competitors is just completely gone now. It was, It was. He was correct briefly for a moment in time. And now here we are, a beautiful moment in time. There was a long time when Apple things were just regularly priced. And now they're going back to being expensive Yeah, some of these MacBooks, oh my God, they added like tw thousand two hundred, four thousandteen hundred dollars to the pricing. It it's a lot. Yeah, it's a lot. meemory increases so We'll keep an eye on it. Obviously, other companies are probably going to be increasing prices of tech as well. This also makes me think that that folding iPhone when it launches later this year Yay ye be cheap. Not gonna be cheap. That thing was already gonna to be like twenty one hundred. now it's gonna be like twenty six. We can probably rewind and find an old podcast episode where we werere debating if it was over under two thousand I think it's definitely over two thousand. Oh, it's a one hundred percent over two thousand. Okay, question for you guys then, and David, this is perfect because you just got here. So you need no other context. Okay. Do you think these price increases are gonna to hit iPhone Will it be the same price as last year's iPhone or will they all be one hundred fifty? They could do the little magic that they do or they just get rid of the bottom tier. You know Yeah, pretty much whatver is. likeike the new version of things are going to be like The more expensive price but a little higher in power, so that will be their excuse when really? Yeah. W kind of iPhone?, it's kind of hardihone. They already cut the lower storage tiers from the iPhone, right? Becauseuse that was your whole thing was that Google was still offering low storage phones and Apple wasn't. Well, it was that their lower tiers got better instead of cutting G their lower tier. right now with the iPhone The iPhone seventeen had doubled the base storage to one hundred twenty eight And didn't go open in price So they got rid of the lower storage tier and they kept the prices the same, which is good. Yeah, I guess when I think of it, I think of the price tier. When I think of lower tier I think the lower price tier. So in my eyes Google just upgraded the lowest or sorry, Apple upgraded the lowest tier where Google got rid of the lowest tier, which then made the lowest tier more more expensive. Right I tend to think this kind of goes along with the rest of the price increases, which are sort of all across the board. I think Apple realizes they can't increase the price of certain things by too much. And I think the iPhone is one of the things that they know they don't want to have dramatic price increases on. So I think they're willing to do bigger price increases on other things to keep the iPhone competitively priced. I still think that ultra, that folding one is going to be expensive, but I think the base iPhone eighteen and eighteen plus, for example, will probably not be hundred dollars hundred more expenseive. Yeah. It's hard because they're already at two hundred sixty fifty six gigs for the base tier. Oh two hundred fifty six. They moved it to two hundred fifty six. Yeah. I hope I don't eat my words. They can't cut that and only offer a five hundred twelve gigab by iPhone. So do you think next iPhone will still be seven hundred ninety nine iPhone eighteen. I don't know if it'll be se hundred and ninety nine cents but I don't think it'll be nine ninety nine. I't think it'll be dramatic a huge increase. I could say eight hundred forty nine. I don't think any subsidizing any of these things on this list will make up for what they would. losing theiPhes on keeping it at the same price. They just sell way too many iPhones. The seventy dollars Apple TV change isn't gonna to cover That's true. The things that they should really be pushing the price on are the things that like businesses and enterprise use, like the Mac studio and which they did. Yeah. That's they very much did. But even the MacBook Pro, I mean Regular people still buy MacBro Pros and they still jject the price a lot So I feel like the cheaper things like the NEO and the MacBook Air, they should be trying to keep as low as possible. Obviously the NEO, they had to try to be really careful with that. Yeah But yeah, it's interesting to even see a Homeod mini price increase just because there's a little bit of RIM in there. J little do something. cop a little bit around. I just bought an M five Max full spec one hundred twenty eight eight terabyte about two months ago. Oh my God. That would have been. And I was saying, I was saying, I don't think I'm gonna be able to get this computer in a year And you know what It's fair I hope I can. I hope it comes back down, but it won't. Yeah, they're supposed to release the MacBook Ultra at the end of the year. and I was like, I'm just going to hold out for the ultra because it's going to be so different. You know, it's going to have a better screen and all this stuff Now I'm like,'s gonna be a so expensive. That might be a seven to eight thousand dollars baseline computer. Base, you think? No. I mean, six I think it' yeah, six something base. ye. Yeah. But for any upgrades, it's gonna be eas. Yeah, That's expensive. Yeah. That laptop, if you give it some RAM is probably gonna be over ten K. It's gonna be insane Ive So if you want to max out a MacBook Pro now, it's getting up there. Yeah. It's getting up there now. But yeah, this is, you know, new screen, new design, all this new stuff. It could be pretty pretty spicy. Yeah. and that kind of feeds into the whole rumor that they're basically going to release the MacBook Ultra with an M five ultra chip All ultrhip Was it that? or was it the M six? I think it was the M six. M six. 'a I'm trying to remember what it was. I think the rumor So I think the rumor I've seen now is they're going to have an M six and then skip all the higher tier versions of M six and then M seven every version again. So the Mriculttro will come out next year now. withith M seven. M seven That could make sense. So maybe they're a reason I whiteboard out. Maybe one of the reasons they're doing that is because they are hoping that within the next year, year and a half, the RAM crisis kind of peters out a little bit and that way they don't charge ten thousand dollars for MacBick Ultra Like they might scare the market a lot if they released a MacBook Ultra starting at five hundred dollars. You say Yeah This is the base MacBook Ultra is going to be six thousand five hundred doars. I mean, it could be it's gotta be. H It's going to be up. in itself is basically saying like let's start towards the top of a MacBook pro Yeah startart I think the base version is going to be Really powerful. Yeah also. Yeah. Yeah. I'm looking at a nine to five MAC article. and there's a couple of people sourcing this, but basically from Bloomberg saying, Apple will skip M six proro and M six max. It'll just be the base M six. so the stuff that gets the base chip can get M six. and then they'll start over with M seven by doing the whole lineu again. M seven Pro, Max, ultra, all that st. That's crazy Even when you name things easily, they're impossible to find. This M series chip is really hard to understand. I've been waiting for a new ultra chip in a Mac for so long They stopped at M three Ultra And the Mac Pro and the Mac stududio, but then M four happened, no ultra. M five happened, no ultra. M six is gonna to happen, no ultra. Yeah. So I'm gonna be waiting uil M seven ultra for a new ultra chhipip. That's crazy. That's why it's funny seeing M three ultra price increase being so much more than the M four because confusing that. Maybe I'll do an Mp five V ult I don't know It seems like they're holding back on the more powerful stuff, right? If they're not planning on trying M six pro or M six. Oh I did Yeahah okay, I remember seeing this also on Twitter because there's also rumors of an M five ultra coming out with up to seven hundred sixty eight gigs of memory. Oh R. And everyone went, Oh, that computer is gonna be you could buy a house instead. Really expensive. Yeah. How expensive I'm gonna just throw out a guess just to make myself look stupid. afford. seven hundred and sixty eight gigs of memory. That computer is gonna to be nine thousand five hundred dollars. Probably more. I think it could break the tenth gate barrier. No way. that's like eighteen thousandars If you speck it that high, somewhere between that much Ram is obscene. fifteen to eighteen thousand. I bet. Let me look at the Max Studio pressing right now. But yeah, it's not gonna be cheap My conspiracy theory, which were probably shouldn't talk about conspiracy theories on this podcast is that Open AI and Anthropic are intentionally make having the RAM crisis happen because open sourced AI models are getting more and more popular, especially running on Mac hardware And if it's affordable to buy enough RAM to run your own AI models, you don't have to use open AI or Anthropic for your AI stuff. This is a really compelling conspiracy. I'm just saying just say So you have to go to the model provider you're only twenty dollars a month as opposed to seven hundred and ninety six gigabytes of RAM. I think you're on to something Without checking Apple. com voiced out Without checking Apple. com if you want to buy the most powerful, most expensive Mac stududio with just ninety six gigs in memory and sixteen terabytes of storage How much do you think that would cost today Okay, Is it over ten? I don't know those prices at all It's the most powerful M three Ultra. M three ultra nice twelve fourteen thousand. God, I was actually gonna you can't check. You did start to say I started I did say that fourteen thousand. fourteen thousand two hundred and ninety nine dollars for that computer today. So if you're thinking M five, Ultra with seven hundred and sixty eight gigs of memory It's gonna be really expensive. Not That's why I said what I said. W two or M five Ultra. Not to give Apple like too much credit here, but remember when we used to buy Mac stududios for fifty thousand dollars each. It was the M The Mac pros The Intel MC pro Intel That's what I mean. Yeah, sorry Remember when we used to buy the Intel Mac Pros for fifty thousand dollars that just spe for yourself. It lookook wow Yeah, not we the company. But Now, you know, we got so used to the price being so much cheaper for so much more performance. Unified memory Still Nobody should buy a fourteen thousand dollars computer generally Um Yeah, how will I make my TikTok videos That's true. This is the thing now. If you are capable of doing the work, like I've found that the amount of computer I need to buy to edit the videos that I make has gone down over the years. Especially when you consider how expensive that Mac Pro was, We had forty thousand dollars specs and the Intel Mac Pro and those AMD radon GPUs and it were Vega GPU's and a ton of memory. When those were forty K, then I started going down to a Mac stududio and then down to a MacBook Pro. I've been editing videos on this MacBook Pro, which cost less than eight thousand dollars, which is expensive But compared to forty thousand dollars, it's like reverse inflation for how much I have spend to edit. So I'm pretty excited to continue to spend less. Well don't get too excited because I'm just gonna to edit on this. I'm gonna to edit on this as long as I can. Continue to spend less by not spending anything. Exactly. I'm also curious to see how the competitors respond to this because just recently, Dell and a couple of other companies came out with their MacBook No comp it dev,xS thirteen. Exactly Yeah. And are they going to raise their prices? Are they going eat it? Because Apple's the most well positioned to actually eat all of these prices. That's I'm very curious. and I fully expect them to. I think the more volume you do, the more insulated you are because of your order sizes, et cetera. I assume XPS thirteen is selling less than MacBookano and therefore is more likely to require a larger price increase unless Dell is willing to subsidize it by increasing other things, whichich I just don't think they will. I don't think they will. I think that's due for price increases. Yeah. They don't have like twelve different products that they can just slightly update the price on Yeah Interesting. So we'll see. All right, we'll see. I'm sorry to everybody who didn't buy a new computer yet. We'll have way more galaxy stuff and others to talk about after the break. But before that, let's do trivia Ruy, do you want the Ellis question first or the me question first? Who's Ellis? You mean Ruiffus? Never heard of him N never heard of him. Wh's that? one on his birthday by the way. actually a happappy birthday, Alice. If you made it to the end of the podcast, oh' not the end of. You made it at this point in the podcast, S say happppy birthday Alice. I would like the Aom question first because I feel like I'll have like more I'll like have my hopes up, like I think I might get one right, you know? It won't be as hard. All right, so I'll do my question first and then Rufus will read Ellis's next timed bit I have in front of me a well, not actually in front of me, but I have pulled up on the website a maxed out MacBook Pro inspired byar Marquez just digging around on the Apple website. How much does it cost? sixixteen inch, sixteen inch out. I'm try to do all of the because the Yeah, ye, yeah, all that stuff. The eight terabyte SSD, one twenty eight gigs of unified memory, all the good stuff. You said M for. M five Max Chers Yes is I know how much I paid for this when I got one a little while ago They added like so much It added like twenty six hundred dollars or something. one hundred twenty eight gigs in I think you guys could have answered this like four days ago, but now with the new price increases, how much is it? Oh boy? Well, I think they added twenty thousand three hundred dollars, but I don't know how much it costs to begin with I guess I'm gonna do delta for this Yeah, closest delta. as closose as delta. Okaykay. All right, I bet. All right, we'll think about it. answers will be at the end like usual. We'll be right back Be for the show comes from Shopify. Landing on a good idea for a business is basically catching lightning in a bottle. What are the ods it willll happen more than once? You have to jump on every opportunity to make it work, and the last thing you need is to get slowed down by clunky logistics. You want tools that are ready to go right out the box. And if your business involves e commerce, you need Shopify. Shopify powers millions of businesses worldwide from household names like Mattel and GymsShark to small businesses just getting started. You can choose from hundreds of beautiful templates that let you customize and match your brand. Setup is fast with Shopify's built in AI tools that write product descriptions and headlines and help you edit product photos. And if you've been sitting on a business idea Shopify makes it easy to make it happen. Everything you need to start selling is included and ready to go from day one With Shopify, nothing stands between your idea and a real business. So go make it one Start your free trial at shhopify. com slash Wformorm at shhopify. com Sashay for Shopfy. com slashait for Supp for the show comes from Framer. So if your team wants a website that looks and feels hand crafted but is still fast a ship, Framer is built for that. You design on a visual canvas with responsive layouts, hosting and a CMS built in so the work is production ready from day one. agents work alongside you to draft pages and polish sections, then you review and publish what goes live Framer is the pro site builder for creators, teams, and businesses that want a professional site and care enough to get every detail right. Agents solve the gap between AI generated ideas and production ready website work The agent works in the same place where the real site is designed, managed, reviewed, and published. It lands on the canvas, stays edible, and can be published when the team is ready Agents and Framer work alongside teams to streamline collaboration on the same canvas build custom code components, create and manage CMS content, optimize SEO settings, and ship everything all in one place. Learn how you can get more out of your site from a Framer specialist or get started building for free today at framer. com slash wave for thirty percent off of Framer P ango plan. That's framer. com slash wave for thirty percent off. Framer d. com slash wave, rules and restrictions may apply. Wore for the show comes from Quintince. One of the great things about summer is how easy things can feel and when the days are relaxed, it's nice to reach for those loose, go anywhere, do anything pieces of clothing you can wear again and again For elevated summer wardrobe pieces, check out Quints. They're offering European linen pants and shirts that are breathable, easy to throw on, the perfect summer upgrade for your rotation, starting atty four dollars. Their tees are soft enough to live in all day and the lightweight cotton sweaters are exactly what you want when summer nights cool down Plus, everything at Quince is priced fiftycent to eighty percent less than similar brands. They work directly with the factories to cut out the middlemen, so you're paying for exceptional quality, not brand markup With the summer heating up, literally, it's probably ninety degrees in the room we're recording in right now. I grabbed a couple of their breathable shorts and tees so that I'm not a sweaty mess every waking hour of my day. But also they have a bunch of awesome kids clothes. and like a true dad, I wound up buying more things for Lane than I did myself. Most importantly, a dinosaur swimsuit because Lane loves dinosaurs now and I could not be happier Her favorite is a broe source, by the way. Anyway, make your summer wardrobe easier. Go to quints. com slash wave for free shipping on your order and three hundred and sixty five day returns. now available in Canada too. That's QuiNcE. com slash wave for free shipping and three hundred sixty five day returns Qint. com slash wave All right, welcome back. We gotta talk now about a different company Samsung Samsung's been on this interesting tear and we kind of have some expectations for them, but they've started teasing this new Samsung galaxy thing U they like deleted They wipe their Instagram account and like started posting these new teasers basically of a bunch of different things with new aspect ratios Yeah like you know, like a candy bar has all the pieces you can break off. so it was like four by three and they popped the top off. so now it's like yeah three by three, which doesn't actually represent the aspect ratio very well. but But I think a lot of what they're teasing is this sort of smallall wide. passport You know, when you open your passport, that like aspectike ratio, it's like that And I think we're all expecting some sort of a foldable that is a little more squat, a little more wide and like passport shaped Uh similar to what we've seen in the past from like the remember the first pixel fold?ixel fold Oo find N. Yeah We're gonna see that again. My favorite thing about the Ts real quick is if you open it up on browser because it's they deleted like the grid, so the grid system comes up to show the pieces snapping off on top. by being six in a row. It's four wide on a desktop, so none of the things match up and full screen Beuse I have I have a well yeah, I'm like a browser and that aren't using a dying browser. He Hey, hey just because something isn't been updated of me. I would argue it probably is debatable. I only have a couple problems But yeah, we we're expecting new Samsung foldable and I'm curious to see how they're going to market this as being particularly new or different because we have had this already. and then we kind of like moved on from it But now we're going back. Yeah, it's funny that there were a few brands that did this, but then because everybody else was just doing regular phone that opens even bigger Yeah, everyone switched over to this. Because of Samsung essentially. L yeah. Samsung was so good at the folding phone. Yeah. Everyone was like, well, that one's working. Let's do that one. Even Google like used this at first and then moved on from it. And now everyone's like, o, well, Apple is kind of setting the trend, so I guess we have to do it first. Yeah. this is kind Almost along the same lines as the air. Remember we all knew the MacBook, we all knew the iPhone aerirror was coming Yeah. And then in the middle of the year, Samsung went Oh, but yeah, here's ours. This is the Samsung Galaxy S twenty five edge. Yeah. And it was ultra thin phone, better than the iPhone er in a lot of ways likeike had dual cameras had bigger battery and all that, but was their own take on it before Apple to preempt Apple. Now all these rumors are floating around that this folding iPhone is gonna to come out first folding iPhone, and it's going to be a more squat aspect ratio similar to the phones we've talked about And so Samsung's in the middle of this year are going to go, Ohh, well But we could do that too. Yeah. And so they're going to keep doing the Z foold in the candy bar style and shape and aspect ratio. but this is a new foldable that is like, I think they're calling it the wide. I think that's the rumor I think so the rumor is that it's no it' sorry, that's just how I wrote it to. No, I think that's the rumor I thought the rumor is Galaxy foold What. The rumor I saw was just that it is the Galaxy Z Fold eight and the the other one is the Galaxy Z Fold eight ultra Oh. so ultra being the one that we're used to? Yes, which interesteresting. To me reminds me of note ten which kind of worries me because in note ten land, we had the note ten and the note ten ultra, right Yeah. And everyone really liked the size of the note ten But the Note ten also got a bunch of downgrades compared to the Ne ten Ut. It was like plastic was. It was like plastic back, it had worse RAM, like it didn't have as nice of cameras. Like if I remember correctly, almost everything about it was slightly worse. and the leaks we got from Android headlines show The I'll call it the not eight, but I'm still going call it the wide just for audio listeners to make sure we're talking about the same thing. The fold eight wide version, the bestquort version O only has two cameras in the leak that're seeing. There's some case manufacturer that probably leaked it and that's cleou. It looks like a like three by two aspect ratio, but two cameras. So I'm wondering if everything about this is going to be slightly worse than the candy bar style ul Fld A ult. Three by two is cool for previewing photos justust saying This could be extremely clever positioning from Samsung I can Because if you look at all of the rumors of what the iPhone fold is going to be That's all the same. Dual cameras, squat aspect ratio. And if you're Samsunging and you're marketing, wow, I feel I feel like you can get really clever. You can go, hey, All right We have had this Candy bar style phone, which is really great to use while closed and you can open it up and have a big screen But oh if you want like a sort of a compromised experience where it's not that great to use while closed, but you can at least have a bigger like screen open, here's a less premium version. It's only dual cameras, it's only this smaller passport shape And then we can have the ultra, which is actually more fun to use while closed. And then when Apple comes out with theirs, you go, oh, Apple made one of the compromise shaped ones with dual camas. I didn't know that's tr. We were Samsung and we also offer the Big bad ultra. That's interesting. I think that's the clever like at least that's how I could see it comp Yeah. Look at the compromise. you only get two cameras, you have to do this. That would be That'd be pretty messed up. Yeah That'd be some chess I think my issue with it and why compared to the note ten is like It makes me wish they were both just ssentially the same thing, but you as the consumer get to pick which size you prefer.. But if it does wind up being an I haven't seen any specs other than the camera, so I don't know if it's gonna to have like slightly worse materials, slightly different. battery or, I mean, it'll probably a different battery. I batteryized. Yeahah. But Like Then I just wanted to pick my size and still have the same performance. This feels like AB testing titles and thumbnails where the Two thumbnails are completely different. and what did we learn out of that I don't really know. instead of two thumbnails that are the same, but one has an arrow and one doesn't have an ararrow, it to be like, okay, people really do prefer the bigger size, Well do they prefer the bigger size or do they prefer the better specs out And you're spending that much money already? Scientifically, the ultra sells more for Samsung because in America we basically do carrier perllans and everything is the difference between eighteen dollars a month and twenty dollars a month So yeah Yeah. interestnteresting. I could see that. I mean, you do want to isolate one variable and see if people like one thing over the other. but in this case, there's going to be a bunch of things different about these phones. So maybe not. hopefully it's just the cameras and the size and maybe they're running similar. I't know that's assume that this ultra will be more expensive and the small w Yeah will be less expensive. And they're going to want to put enough of a gap in there that it doesn't feel too close. Yeah. yeah Y Well, we'll see in a couple of weeks, I guess, because that's supposed to drop sometime in July. Sime in July or August. I don't know. something like that know Speaking of drop he said he was going to drop in July Polstar is dropping out of the U.S market. kindind of being pushed out in a way. Yeah. And this makes me sad. Yeah I well, it's funny. I like A lot of the Volvo EV's and I actually like some of the Pull stars And it is unfortunate to have that competition leave the US market because I thought the Pul Star two was a solid option. That's the most realistic one to recommend to most people. It's by far the most popular one. The lineup gets a little confusing after that because it's a mid sized crossover and then another mid size crossover and then another mid size crossover, but that's okay. They looked nice, they drove nice, they had nice speakers, they had these Spartan super clean interiors But the Post Star twoI is solid, and it's a shame to see going away. Yeah. So effectively what's happening here is the US government kind of issued this order that you cannot have cars that run software from China. If you didn't know, Pulstar is a subbrand of Gilei, Gilei is a giant Chinese automaker. For some reason, Volvo, which is also owned by Gilei, was given authorization to sell cars here. I think this could be one of those things where the U.S government's like, Volva, we've had Volva forever. Pul Star' a new thing Get rid of it. It is confusing because like Vola is a Swedish company, right that then got bought by Killy. And then but what's even more confusing is don't both of them run Android Automotive for their software? Yes Google Yeah, I'm not sure there might be some like code in the way that it the card Well, I guess like where's where's data going back to Yeah. I don't know. I still think it's one of those things where the government just doesn't understand the difference. And we've seen a lot of companies do this. like people don't like DJI, so they launch a sub brand, you know? The government doesn't like One plus, so they launch a sub brand. And then then they're allowed into the US. So it's very strange. But they're going to be continuing to sell all of their leftover stock in the US, but they won't be able to sell after mododel year twenty twenty seven and forward yeah, it kind of sucks. I personally did not like the Pulstar two that much because the interior felt like very, very cramped even though I felt that they were one of the best looking cars on the outside. But either way, it's not fun to see are options disappearing, especially because in the United States Our car brand options are already very limited compared to a lot of other countries. Yeah. sounds like New York City just got a bunch of new taxis. J like the yeah, Just like the Fisker. Okay, next quick story. WhatsApp is launching usernames is my least favorite thing It's your least favorite., whoa, way, way, way, w wayit G me Be every time a company launches a new thing and they let you pick a username, the second I go to pick my username, it's already taken And I never get my username. That is quicker. I'll it to you got toa be quicker. Yeah. I'ven been many new for you. tell me, you haven't already been testing this for two weeks. I wish yeah. So this is pretty straightf fororward Basically previously it hooked up to your phone number, now you can pick a username. I think in general, this is a good thing. I understand that for you, this is probably not. and kind of sucks. Honestly, I think what they should do is because it's hooked up to your if you're hooked up to your Instagram account through WhatsApp, it should automatically park on that username for you and then you can decide if you want to keep it or not. And then if you don't, I saw people online saying not to do that though, because then if you have a very public social media now they can just message you on website. They can't though, because they did add a feature where you can Only people with a special private code can message you through your username. So when I signed up for my username, you know And when I when I did it, it said there was an option that was like, Let only let people message you if they have your private code and it gave me a private code So basically you send it to someone you say, Oh, I'm this on WhatsApp and here's my code. And then that's how they constuct So're embarrassing with you He, hey friend If you wantan to message me,'s there's a code to let you message me. You know I don't know that feels. I would also assume that if they like scanned your QR code or something, like when you first give them your your one account, Yeah, then it would automatically. Doesn't that kind of defeat the purpose of having a username Well, I wish it was more like Instagram where I just have my main inbs like own secondary inbogs. Yes, but the other half of that is impersonation because if there's someone out there with the official MKBHD us'name on WhatsApp and it's not me. Yeah. What the fuck is that? Yeah, true. That's like the most obvious like maybe they're just doing this so that they can do a unified verification system Even though metaverified is not actually verification, it's just I also wonder if they play like Twitter. donon't want to connect Instagram as much because Instagram getting banned in the EU, but WhatsApp is not part of that and they want to keep those apart as much as possible. They let you, though, when I signed up for the username, I said, do you want to just use your Instagram username? and then it did a little lock icon I think it's very important Very important I also just want to point out that six years ago me this time was Adam. Adam made a video. you were going to bring this up. When him and I used to work at Android Authority, Adam made a very controversial video at the time, which he was right all along about how we shouldn't have phone numbers anymore and we should just have usernames. I could get on board. Yeah. I did have Multiple people reach out to me afterwards and bring up some very compelling reasons why that shouldn't be the case. But overall, I do stand by it. I think it would be a better world if we had Just usernames or something set of phone numers. And to be fair at the time, we were trying to revitalize a dying YouTube channel. so it was just kind of th the wall. It was a hot take at the time. I mean, it was yeah. So we're like, Adam, can you make something Anyway, he did hold my beer. I think it's good. I think it's good. All right PlayStation is ending physical disc production. Also for everyone reading this, I'm sorry how often I wrote disc like a Frisbee and not like a disc, like a PlayStation discm pretty sure that's okay. Marquez didn't even notice untilt even I didn't notice You can tell you can look, it swaps back and forth because I realize sometimes anyways Sony just announced that january twenty twenty eight and on. they will stop the production of physical discs for new PlayStation games. onlynly digital versions will be available. This, I think, has initial reaction from almost everybody. So before we get to that I'm going to play bad guy or good guy or Sony and say a couple reasons Why they're probably doing this. Okay. Physical games are sold way less often. Most people don't want to wait for delivery or go to a store. Game diss for PC's have been dead for ages.. We download things I'll throw out the little apple Look at us, we could environmentally beneficial because that's a lot of waste, plastic and discs that probably get thrown out And Giant profit margins in capitalism When you don't have physical things. That's good Probably the main reason, let's all be seems like Yeah, yeah, yeah. Daboo you now or. I just want to point out that Sony put out a video a while ago for the PS four that I just need you guys to watch. Okay, I'm gonna to have you watch this. Okay. I don't know if you already watched it, but it's very funny. It Came out thirteen years ago, to be fair, a lot changes in thirteen yearsally This is called official PlayStation U game inststructional video. R remember this the PlayStation account. I remember this This is how you share your games on PSp B this done as a retort to some other console that Xbox they stopped. Probably something like Xbox. Yeah. And so I also and I also need to point out that last week, Sony removed a ton of movies that people had already bought from the PlayStation store because they ran out of their licensing deal for them And they just people cannot watch those movies anymore. Even though they bought them, there's no refunds offered unless they have a disk. We are living in modern Digital Sfdom. You do not own anything, you are renting a license by paying money, and it's bad And that's a reason why the discs should still exist, even though most discs are just kind of ways for the console to actually talk to the internet and say, oh, hey, nowadays. Yeah nowadays Anyway Well, well, well Here we are again once back in our digital serfdom. President Gamer Mariah is in the House. I just want to say, I saw this article this morning. I got so mad it gave me a headache immediately. I'm an avid Physical media consumer for games And I don't trust companies And probably good there we go. Pably. In fact, I was actually researching this for a video recently. And In the short term, I personally, in my personal opinion, I don't think it's bad to reduce e waste and all those kinds of things coming from disks and streamlining the process and making it cheaper for consoles that don't need to have disk drives and all that kind of stuff. But do support resale and fair competition and As you will note recently that the let's see. We've had a bunch of different online digital stores actually closed down within the past five or six years since COVID. We had the W online store shutdown. The Nintendo E shop, the Wi U shop, Nintendo three DS shut down. I Um Xbox three hundred and sixty stuff became limited over the past couple years. so trust companies with preservation and like availability to games. And so there's a really great foundation if anyone actually wants to research this called the Video Game History Foundation who would like to provide access to researchers and other people who would like to be part of video game preservation. and I suggest following them and we'll see happens with Sony in the next couple years. Very nice. And that's my rant. shut up Iill it I know I mentioned like PC games don't have discs and haven't forever, but like consoles feel like like a time capsule. There's like this like this is six years of video games on one thing and the fact that all of us now can go out and buy the like systems we grew up with. like if I want to go play spyro on a PS one, like it's probably not the hardest thing to find. It might be a little pricey, but not crazy or N sixty four cartridges are still kick an ass out there. I mean, they're expensive, but you can find them and you can play those games and like I can show my kids the games that I played back then because they don't know that crisis looks almost identical. this going to happen Th then they're going to play golden eye and be like the aiming in this game sucks. Is this the same thing that happens to music where We all used to buy albums. Oh ye And now in the future, kids are not going to know what that's like, but we'll have our albums and we'll be like, this is this is the one I bought. Yeah Yeah. It'll be like a like a relic of former times. Yeah Yeah. It's that. I think it's in my opinion, it's also all the indie games on the storefronts. And once the storefronts disappear, access to the indie games and the smaller developers also will maybe disappear with it as well. There's a really cool video from a YouTuber called The complepletionist where when the Nintendo, Wi U and three DS store shut down. He downloaded every single game in the storefront every single one before it shut down. and then he donated it to the foundation for research purposes. Very cool. Very noble, very sick. I hope we don't have to do that again in the near future. Wouldn't it be cool if we had some sort of protocol All the games could be hosted on Stop line.. Stop Everyone's computers could run their protocol to help se theseike. Yeah, well. That would be nice. It's surpressing. yeah, I don't like digital Sfdom. Anyway, that video of them is like the quintessential big company make stand Rerets it It's a lot it gets put against them. Yeah.'s it was literally the Netflix sharing password tweet Yes, like Yep, that's this is fun. We're all for this. agedon milk. Yeah. And also the Samsung haircut. Thech The notch haircut. That one aged so It was like two years later. It was something like that. Yeah like that. So well, speaking of gaming, Last week we talked a lot about the debrand companion cube accessory for the Steam machine. I don't think we talked about it at all U N mind, but it did exist. Well didn to talk about it. I just it. I really thought we did. I had it in there and we just talked about the machine That's crazy. Well, Dbrand made this really cool companion cube accessory. I say made because they're not making it anymore. Basically what happened is they didn't ask permission from Valve, which is crazy. Didn't we talk about the video they made for it? We did And we were just watching it Are you kiddy me? Okay, Well, this apparently wasn't the podcast. Debrand made some incredible launch video for this where they used like the Cave Johnson voice and a bunch of companion cbe stuff and some portal guns and like the robots from Portal, Atlas and like those guys And everyone's like Wow This is crazy. This feels like an official valve video. It's wild that DbRan was able to do this. Turns out they weren't able to do this I also know. I mean, we're close. Okay First off, Dbrand is a major sponsor of the channel. so everything disclosure. Major disclosure. I find of I never thought that And I hadn't talk to them before or anything about it. Dbrand's always kind of been a they kind of go rogue all the. They go roue all the time. They did the dark plates with the ye the marketing term of like S us Sony and they've had logos in the past that they had to like stop including. it's just kind of there whichich is a fast and loose vibe and I'm sure they're. Sometimes they'll like show a case for an unreleased phone before the phone comes out. Yeah which I' sure the company is not happen. They just kind of wing it sometimes.. Yeah, this is maybe backfiring on the winging it part. Yeah. They made a big apology post on Reddit and they said that they definitely should have asked first. They did try to plead with Valve to work up some sort of licensing deal. They said no. they said that was fair. Unfortunately, not going to see the light of day. However, I'm sure that we will see a bunch of three D printed face plates and stuff like that because the entire point of the same machine is to be able to be modded. Eysically. We have one of the cubes. Does that make it sick? sorry to say for all the people who don't get to I want to look at it. Ially. the podcast? No I will. I saw a lot of people saying Hopefully they'll release the is it STL file? is that a three D P file? which a lot of people appropriately responded, like this' doesn't just have to do with the fact that it's like something they're selling. It's the distribution of copyright trademark material. Like they're definitely not going to be able to release that. But yeah, it's a bummer. they couldn't or. It's obviously a huge mistake that they made that they know because D brand's great at being transparent H Yeah They also said it was our second fastest selling product ever only behind the Kill Switch case for the which is great which which actually tells you a little bit about steam machine demand Yeah, that should imply that steam machines, despite all that we said last week about how expensive they were, are still pretty in demand. Yeah to the point where people are buying accessories for it. It sold out instantly in Japan. Alex got screwed over with his steam machine because he put in his reservation for the like five twelve gigabyte model. and then like the day he was supposed to get his place in line went, oh wait, I'm going to do the two terabyte one And then got launched like months back in the line. And Ouch isn't getting one. Okay. Hey, speaking of sold out, did you guys see that random headline that the Ferrari Luce, despite all that we talked about it, also sold out in China? seegue In China. How do you know how many cars that was Ohait to find out? Yes. Oh Is thirty five, more than twelve one hundred. moreore than thirty five. More than one hundred. Not more than one hundred, twelve. All eighty eight Lu chase for that market They made ADA for all of China. Yeah own little country. How do with eighty eight? I don't know how many they were planning on making, but that's what the article said eighty eight. So you just like you take orders for six minutes and then you cap and you're like, we sold that. Yes We sold that they They came to that market with the number eighty eight and they were like, this is how many we' going gonna sell here? You know what? I think? Is it important in China? I think it's like Probably yeah I think eight are important. Oh yeah, 'napsragon eight That's what they called it snoundtack in eight because in China eight is lucky number. Yeah they figured if they they had a saptrake in seven series didn anything., But that wasn't lucky. fl The flagship one was eight. Yeah seven and six were just cut. Yeah but yeah All right, well, that's just off. You just wanted that Lu jab in there. I just wanted to throw that in there. Yeah. How many did they sell out in America U That I don't know. I just saw the Lu sold out in China and I was like, Wow, what does sold out mean? So I clicked the article and that was that was the number. Very nice. Instant sellout. Ver. Instant sellout. Yeah. okay Well, we have another trivial question company that has always overcharged for RIM is now charging even more for RAM. True. That's true. But What Apple offering has increased price over two point five times Since its's launch in twenty nineteen Cs she class What Apple offering What Apple offering? So this is an option or a they're saying offering It is a product Okay. so what digital product? What Apple product has increased in price two point five X since twenty nineteen Since it launched It launched In twenty nineteen And since it's launch Its price has increased over two point five times. I have an idea. Air timee. Air power. No one's been free time. It's free and priceless at the same time. I think we should go to the break. Okay. C we spoil it? It's break time, break. be right back. Bak Fourth of July savings are happening now at the Home Depot with select appliances starting at three hundred and ninety eight dollars. Plus, get free delivery on appliance purchases of three hundred and ninety eight dollars or more no membership required. Upgrade your kitchen with a modern and sleek GE profile refrigerator featuring hands free autofill for the perfect pour every time. And make laundry day easier with two in one washer dryer combo innovation that completes laundry in about ninety minutes shhop topop brand appliances now at the Home Depot. offer about june seventeenth to July at US onlyn Store online for details I'm Mr Manning. I'm Madison Sinner, I'm Vv Yov.'m Coria Moo. want to train like a Red Bowull athlete. Tell us your fitness goals this summer to enter the Red Bull Athlete challenge. You'll get to try each of our workouts for a chance to win an ultimate Red Bull experience. They you have what it takes This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome, that's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a fifty page restoration block, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online makes sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responssees setup required compatibility and availability varies eighteen plus Oh you're welcome back. I have one more thing. for the end of this podcast because I've just been confused on Twitter. Nice. And I'm generally confused about AI, but these ones are specifically confusing to me. What's the natur state of being on Twitter is confused? That's super fair. Hate state, but I will be on Twitter a lot today because hockey free agency starts and I'm very excited for it. I think LeBron's going to go to the Buffalo Sabers. Anyways. U Okay, we've seen a million different AI things, but there are T that I've been just bothering me a lot. because I don't really understand what they're trying to do The first one is more recent I think it's called Poke pooke? Is a poker pooke. Poke. pooke. Okay. Poke. Okay. Poke. It was already an AI that lives inside of things like Message WhatsApp Telegram.. Essentially it is, you know, an AI chat bot that lives inside your messaging apps. Yeah. I believe so. I've used this. You have used it. I have used this. Okay, well their new version of it It's called Poke Humans And they have this insanely confusing hype video that's just a bunch of messages going back and forth that I can't really follow, but it seems like essentially When you were talking to your chat bot If something gets toooo confusing for it to do for you. It will bring you to a human to start doing that thing This is just customer service Aual intelligence. Yeah, like this is just your personal assistant But like you're on a call with Comcast customer serervice, where like you have to go through twenty different AI recordings to try and just tell you your bill instead of actually figure anything out And then it brings you to a customer service agent who also has no idea what they're doing. Yeah. I'm so confused by this because I can't imagine the humans being paid to do this. are making enough money that it's not just a call center again That probably doesn't really know what's going on, especially in your personal life because I assume this is supposed to be y Yeah give it all of your data personersonal assistant. Yeahah. Yeah So like, they definitely can't afford to have really high quality training. I mean, what was the, um what was that phone that had the or the one mark Ohre theant What's it called? can't I think the air ph Caviar? No notot Virtue but what's it called at a hotel when somebody concier Concierge, Thank you. U It reminds me of that because that was like cool personal concierge is instead random person from across the country who switches every couple of minutes and doesn't really have any idea what they're doing Do you know how much this costs for poke Ultra the version that has the human assistance part? I assume it's a subscription. Yes. take a. I mean, it's right there on the page, but I'll take a guess monthly. No I haven't looked.. Wh is a few hundred. Do sho one hundred ninety nine cents a month hundred bucks a month Also you can get onto it and then go human an Can you just say human? Han Type zeroan Talk to a human. Talk to a human. basically Tk to a technician asking for personersal assistant basically. Yeah, but assuming sl just like the virtue concierge. presumably one really doesn't want to do any of the things. Of course. Yeah. in the hype video they were doing things like Can you Ask David if he wants to go to a restaurant in San Francisco and what his preferences would be or like what his dollar amount? Well stuff like that. Yeah whichich feels so hard to send to another human that's potentially, I, they're at a call center no matter whether it's in the US, whether it's in another country. Yeah, like a type center is true. Yeah, let's make this slower. Let's make customer service slower sounds. Yeah. I just That the whole this is confusing. I want to try to explain this product to you because I did I did use it for it like a day. Poke or poke human pooke. I didtize the human version Okay. Yeah. So Poke is an AI assistant app that lives inside of iMessage, also can live inside of WhatsApp, Tgram, etcetera The whole shick of it is that it gets access to all your information so it knows like pretty much everything about you And it's very sarcastic. It kind of ribs you And instead of you having to go to it and ask it questions, it'll just text you periodically throughout the day to like remind you to do stuff or like ask you a little questions, stuff like that U It was kind it kind of launched in the same era as like the friend pen. was this was like the friend Pen, whichich again, I don't know whatate ever happened to that Who knows they spend a million dollars on the URL. Anyway, so that's been out for quite a long time famously When you set it up, you actually have to negotiate you negotiate with the AI to try to set your monthly price So it tries to set it at like a certain monthly price. and then you go, I'm not paying that. And it goes, okay, how about this? okay, how about this? And you just argue with it forever Yeah, it's very weird. A lot of people got it to like ninety nine cents. someome people got it for free I argued with it for like an hour to try to get for free and then I uninstalled it. So you have toggle with your AI. You haggle with the AI. Yeah, with the human one, it's not that way, I assume. So I should just get my AI to haggle with it for four That's true. J just get clawed to haggle with. They'llggle with each other. I'll get two poke instances and they'll both get each other down to free Anyone rememember Sarter Child on Aim bought you a message and now it like responded back to you, but our child. It was called smarter childild, but like that's weir. As a kid, you would be like, I mean, the typical aim, hey, sub and M you and then you just be like you smartter child and then it would just be like it's not saying anything. you'd be like that was fun. And that's all you would do. That's what this poke sounds like. L this is an AI that you can just Rb it and fantastic and maybe screw around with it and be like, I'm deleting this. The one positive thing I will say about it is that for the like day that I was using it, it was kind of like scarily accurate about things about my life that it was bringing up. You know, where with like Gemini, you'll tell it like one thing once and then it will just fixate on that, you know Like like how the fitbit air just fixates on the burrito that I ate at know things about you, though. If it's just plu It plugs into your Gmail. L you give it access to your Google accounts. Oh o. Yeah. So you have to plug into everything. Yeah, you have to get it. Okay. So now when it goes to a human Yeah, humans can't scan through an entire Gmail account in milliseconds like an AI can So I guess it's being a little more targeted and getting the information, but it seems like it's going to slow down significantly and also human get a bunch of information. Well what I would guess is that the human, yeah, the human element is because they trying to make it like a pure personal assistant concierge. And so for certain digital tasks that the AI can handle for you, the AI will do that, but then there's things like and booking flights that maybe they don't have access to yet. And so they want it to be able to eventually do everything It's kind of crazy that's two hundred a month, but that's how much humans cost at a minimum. I guess so. So this also seems it feels like, you know how there's like digital wellbeing tools in your phone to help you use your phone less. Yeah. feeles like the opposite of that kind of. L you're just texting it all the time, basically. Yeah Yeah, that's true. But it's almost like you're talking to a person because it uses a lot of slang and it uses a lot of Ites't use a lot of capitalization. No uses like no capitalization. That's cool, man. It's trying to be more oomer, very zoomer. Yeah, I don't know U I feel like we're just going back to actual intelligence again, so I guess I ask get a personal s I. I don't want AI. I want I, just intelligence. Okay, I'll go with my second one. This hass been out for a little while, I feel like I've not included it in the podcast because it just felt like I was going to make fun of it. That's kind of the section right now. Taste labs. D you see this? I saw this. Okay, a new data and infrastructure layer to give AI models and agents taste. sorry. I know it's perfect. I saw this whole huge tweet and this ninety second video When you got to the end of that sentence, that's when I left. I saw the first sentence of we're building the data and infrastructure layer to give AI models and agents taste. And then I closed the tab But go on that's probably what I should have done. inststead, I got really angry. Their CEO tweeted, they're on a mission to end AI slop which feels like the most tone deaf, stupid thing I've probably ever heard of. It actually sounded like a company Ellis would make up for one of our trivia questions. Unfortunately, it is real What So this is what I'm confused about What are they talking about? Because in the world of AI slop, it's because Yeah, stock go up. It's just like We are funneling everything into AI so that it can create the things that it sees all the time. Taste is something that like, people have because they're genuinely creating their own things. So is this just going to be a curated amount of stuff the model is getting fed into? Probably. Therefore then just turning that curated stuff into the same thing thousandousands of times over. Destroying the tastes from the thing they dested. I'm gonna play Minor Devil's addvocate, but then also play Angel's Advocate again. Nice Usually A design is really It's bad and it's all the same and there's kind of this like AI website look now where everything has these rounded corners with these certain gradients and like eventually when you get the net average of everything, it kind of just ends up like that. and it's pretty lame. It's happening, sorry, with that YouTube thumbnails in smaller niche communities right now, I think the tell is slightly dark White, slightly dark background White and yellow text that has like brush strokes and this like slight black grunge tint and black outline. Yeah. In the disc golf world, there's a bunch of them right now. You can tell they're using the exact same program because all the thumbnails look exactly the same. Yeah for sure.. So I can see where they came up with this idea because they were like, well, AI has terrible taste, so we have to make things look better Angel's advocate for the problematic part of this is that the way that design works and the way that everything works is that everything works on a pendulum cycle. So if the average of everything becomes really good, eventually that starts to look dry and bland and like old. And so then people start using ugly stuff again and that becomes hip So everything's like this pendulum. And so if their company is just based around Okay, we want to make AI design look better now. That'll work for a little bit, but eventually it's probably going to start looking old and drab. If if they're successful The quicker they turn the The Mne tasteful design into the slap. for sure. So it's just like we're not ending AI slap. We're just making different This is AI sllap with a little garnish on top of it for a little while. and then the garnish gets all wildy. Exactly. It's yeah It's stupid. It also almost feels like they're straight up saying like We want to make sure we're ripping off the best designers. Yeah. They're quing their stuff and definitely not paying them for it. I mean, yeah. The other thing about taste is it' subjective. Yeah it's subjective and the AI is inherently based off of someone else's taste and work. So yeah, it doesn't Well's kind of like how everyone was using the Chiobanni font, you know We talked about this a little bit. The yogurt font? Yeah, the yogurt font. L everyone has been using the Chiobani yogurt font for the last like year or so because it's sort of like it' sort of like New York Times really high quality And now every single brand is using that. And so it's like, yeah, it looks good for now, but I think that pretty soon Yeah. It's a good ass font. notot It's a great font It' good. No, it's a great font. I think there's a reason everyone has been using it buy him Yeah. anyyway, that's gonna get it's gonna get long in the tooth pretty soon.id they make thisot? Did the yogurt company make this pot? or did they Y Gobani sererf. did they make this? Giobani sererf. Is way better than their own products? This is kind of sick. Yeah. Shout out to. I need him to use this on a thumbnail. This is ral. It is called Chobani sererf. Wow I mean, hey, they cooked cook. But everyone's using it. I swear to God, everyone's using it. It does look familiar. Yeah. And then there's the newsprint stuff like anthropics, logos, very newsprints, very New York Times, gothic anyyway They all have like very slightly rounded corners. Yeah. All of the new sereraphonts are all Because all of these new AI companies need to feel more human, you know know. Yeah. That's the reason they're doing it. They want to feel's the problem? relelatable like yogurt, you know what I mean? I don't want my AI to feel more human. I want it to just do the small Yeah, but they want people to feel like their're A. human. I the person for this. You know the best way to feel like a human being a human Breat Yeah, yeah We didn't job. Okay. I don't want to go any further. it's just going to be hate That sounds like I'm confused by these things. and I'm not surprised that I'm confused by with them, but that just seems Wild. I think we're in the st I mean, we've been in the stage of the AI boom where Everyone is still trying to find a unique idea and even if it's not good, people are still gonna try it. This feels like why you're confused. Taste Labs feels like the needle that is currently popping the A. Like this is like we've reached to that point where She blowing E hatefully. Every time you think you've reached the top, there's another mountain to climb. Yeah All right, well, what's trivia? I think it was trivia. Here we go. Question one. Yeah. I have in front of me a webpage. On that webpage is a maxed out MacBook proro from Apple. comot How much does it cost It's one of the things where I'm worried I'm going gonna be like so drastically low, it looks like I have no idea what I'm talking about. It's a sixteen inch with nanoexture display, M five max chip, eighteen core CPU, forty core GPU, one hundred twenty eight gigabytes of unified memory, eight terabyte SSD one hundred and forty watt USBC charger. I have. I heard they upped the price of the Nin texture because it uses so much RAM It's nice, justs kidding. They didn't actually do that I don't know that to be tr. I actually don't know it to be true. because I didn't Flip ' them and read what you got Weast it all math equated. I tried U I can break mine down since I showed my work, go for it. So I have the sixteen inch M five Max MacBid Pro starting at three thousand dollars I think the nanot teexture adds one hundred and fifty bucks. I think the one hundred and twenty eight gigs of memory adds twenty thousand five hundred bucks, That one I'm not so sure about. And then I think the eight terabyte because I think it starts at two So you go from two to four to eight. So that's four thousand dollars more for that. So I ended up at nine thousand five hundred and fifty dollars All right, Andrew. I'll break mine down. I put a eight and then a five and then two zeros for eight thousand five hundred dollars Okay Okay, My logic was that it's probably worse than I think. so I put twelve thousand dollars The closest is Maras? Oh Marquez gets the point. Well what was it actually? ten thousand one hundred and forty nine dollars. Wh I almost a attese. So with that, Marquez, you now have thirty two points. Andrew with twenty seven and David with thirty two. No! hide up My age. No. That's wild Uh, okay. That's great. Oh You know, sometimes people stop on the street and say, good job with Tvia. You're k it feel they're gonna to stop now. Now they're gonna stop me on the street. Really? It's good job catching up to David. Yeah. that's exciting. Apple. The company that has always overcharged for RAM is now charging even more for RAM What Apple offering has increased its price over two point five times since its launch in twenty nineteen. You know Marquez may have been tied with me for a brief moment.