Apple Silicon and Team Building

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Yeah , Stef Creed does that a lot. Yes. He's very good at it. It's like when you're about to shoot a product and you don't like air power. It's like it's fake Yeah, what's up people of the Internet? Welcome back to another episode of the Waveform Podcast. We are all of your hosts. I'm Marques. I'm Alice. I'm Andrew and I'm David. And in this bonus episode, we're going to be covering a whole bunch of things, but mostly sports. And the way that we're going to do it is we have our fellow non ball knower. Hi Andrew and David over here guests slash hosts who we want to explain the massive amount of overlap between sports and tech . And we have a lot of analogies and similes and ways of explaining that. And Alex and I ball knowers of the podcast. And maybe we'll get some Rufus and Adam over there chiming in as well. To help anything? We split the storage table . Okay . Rufus on our side. Adams on there. Even better, even better. Okay, so then we're going to use all of this to hopefully get you guys caught up to speed on the incredible world of what's happened in basketball for the last couple of weeks, last months by using tech. I know the last couple of weeks. I just do not know the last couple weeks. David David has quietly become a ball known. I mean, if you actually loudly loudly you were pretty dialed, but there's still plenty to learn. Obviously, there's lots of lore and things to do like my baby. Can I add the first bee for this episode? Can you It's a classic. There's a couple things. You kind of just start chanting when you become a sports fan. That's one of them . Any court? It's a classic chant now. Yeah. Nixon five, if you just live in the area, you just walk outside and say that and people like high five you. That's we don't say good morning anymore. Yeah. Nixon five. Nick five. Yeah, especially you make sure whenever you order breakfast for the next six months, you just order a Brunson egg and cheese. You don't have to explain it, they'll just know what it is. Is it special ? Is it different than a regular egg and cheese? No, it's not a baked egg and cheese, it's just a Bruns and Egg and cheese. It's just named honor. No, it has sirata mayo. Does it? Does it? Are you guys kidding me? I don't know. It all stem from like this kid asked him, What's your bodega order? And he said, Well, I don't actually live in the city, so I don't have a normal bodega order. But if it was going to be that, it would be this. I thought you guys were going to teach us who needs a lot of damn table. Goodness. Yeah, it has siracha mayo on it. That sounds better. Incredible. Well, we're gonna go through all this, starting from the rules of modern NBA and then the team s and the history and then maybe a little bit of like I think I want to end this by talking about the fan overlap because there's so much overlap between fans of tech companies and the tribalism in the sports world , that I feel like we need to just bandwagon on to some team before the end of this. Okay. Apple in five. Five bro. Just like that. Five. No, shut up in five, bro. five. Exactly. One plus is out of the fin . Yeah . The NBA altogether. One plus got knocked down the first year plus we were able to stop the first . All right, so I think we'll start with the rules. Just like what is the NBA? The NBA obviously a basketball league here in the U S and we had how many teams are in the NBA, thirty. twenty four. thirty. There are National Basketball Association? Yes, it is. Yes. Very good. Good job, David. Ball now. Actually wait, there is going to be thirty two teams expanding expansion. Yeah. Expansion Seattle and presumably Seattle and Vegas are about to get teams. And then one team is going to move to the Eastern Conference. Yeah. Yeah, which is a good opportunity maybe to talk about teams in general because obviously there's lots of tech companies who you can kind of think of as teams . And I'm trying to think of what would an expansion team be? It would be kind of like a startup, right? You need to like build a whole thing from the ground up very quickly and then just join the league like a startup so we're going to have some startups soon which is interesting to root for. They don't have any history because you have some teams that have been around for a very long time who have a history of winning in the past ups and downs they've, had rosters, AKA employees who have done amazing things sometimes terrible things. That have caused the companies to rise and fall. And so whenever you watch those tech companies, you're kind of like watching the players for the team affect their outcomes. Can I almost every question I'm going to ask is going to preface with saying this is what happens in hockey? Does this happen in basketball? Okay. And if I'm correct, Seattle had a team at some point. Yeah, right. So bringing it back potentially has like an old fan base coming back to it. This happened to with the Winnipeg. If I may, Seattle got really kind of h osed by their ownership group who decided for whatever reason, I think they I think they changed ownership in the late two thousands and then the owner for whatever reason really wanted to move them to Oklahoma City and just take them out of Seattle. But the Seattle fanbase was really passionate, but it was like an arena issue where the city didn't want to pay for a new arena or something. And so they moved them to Oklahoma City and Seattle has been starved for basketball since then. They now have a they have D aavid WNBA team and are they going to play in the Kraken arena? There's a new NHI. I think so. Yeah, that's I think the most recent. I think they'll play in the new arena. I mean, it's Arena. It's not final yet, but presumably that is where they will play Climate Change Arena. Yeah, it it''ss one of the only arena climate climate flag s. Climate change arena is crazy. It's like one of the only arenas that's down . So if you look from the ice up, you can see this big window and that's actually the sidewalk of the street. Oh, that's awesome. It's like my apartment. Nice. Yeah. Okay. So for David . Nokia . Nokia. Nokia used to be a whole thing, great company, thriving and then kind of just stopped. They do telecom stuff now, but they had to bring it back. Oh yeah. And they bring it back and they've licensed that name and they started making phones and doing things with that name again. That's that's Seattle getting an NBA team again. Okay, so they're licens ing the name. It won't be quite exactly the same team, but it will be fun to root for because we know that name. Because when that team moved all the players moved , so a lot of Seattle fans probably became Oklahoma City fans or were so mad about it that they stopped followed their players but now they're getting a team. It's actually interesting too not to get too into the weeds, but there's been multiple times in the NBA where teams have moved and then come back or whatever and it's created this weird history gap for certain teams. Like so for example, the Charlotte Hornets back in the day moved to New Orleans it became the New Orleans Hornets . But then they eventually added another team to Charlotte called the Charlotte Bobcats. And so then they were like, Well, do we get the Hornets history? And it was like, No, you're a new team. You don't get history. But then New Orleans was like, well, we don't like the name Hornets. We're going to change our name to the Pelicans. they're the New Orleans Pelicans now. And then Charlotte with the Bobcats was like, wait, hornets is on the table again. So let's become the Hornets. That's weird. And now people are like, wait, so do the New Orleans Pelicans own the Charlotte Hornets history or do the Charlotte Hornets own the Charlotte Hornets history. Wait, so I don't understand that what's a technology? I don't know if I'm not analogy. It's not a perfect one to one. But there's not a perfect one to one of everything . Maybe there's like it's like Carl Pay, right? It's like he llo. I never ran one plus and then he was nothing. But again, David is right in this. Well, but then but how Carl Pay then bought Essential , but just the name and now nothing has essential in it. Yeah. So do they get the nothing history because they have they get the essential history? You don't want this the Andy Ruben history? Yeah. So if they made a new company called Essential, like would they get the Essential History or would it just be the nothing? Essentially . Yeah Hey , they made that gem phone. I'm all in on the ball, you know what I'm saying? All right. So anyway, basketball the rules are pretty simple. I don't know if you need a technology, but obviously the teams are just trying to score the most points. You have four, twelve minute quarters, you can pass the ball, dribble , you can't foul or travel. Pretty basic sports . Well, wimby sports fanatics of basketball is fouling people. Yeah, can I ask a question based on what I saw last week ? Yes. When I was a child and I watched the Sacramento Kings play with Mike Bibby, yes. They like you couldn't you had to dribble when you were walking when you were down the heart. When I was watching last week, a lot of people were not doing that. Okay. So this brings us to the core tenets of basketball. Why don't we talk about the core tenets? Give me the rules. The three core tenets of basketball. If you go up to any court in America and you just want to try to play basketball. Yeah. Three court tenants, dribble, pass, shoot, dribble. Those are your three things. Okay, right. No defense. So it's called traveling. No defense. Is it called traveling if you walk with the ball but you don't dribble? Oh, I thought so. Dribbling is if you're if you have the ball and you're moving in basketball , you get three steps without dribbling at some point. Three. Yes, but if you pick up your dribble and you're like going to finish a layup, you get, what's a layout? We'll get there. Okay . Everyone was like, David knows Ball. Yes. No, I'm asking for the audience. But many of our audience members do not know. David is playing a character. He's method acting. That's right. Good safe. That's right. But so dribbling is when you're dribbling down the court. That's how you set up a ball. Bouncing the ball. Yeah. Yeah, dribbling is bouncing the ball and down into your hand. So that is like software dev. So that is like your core principle to basketball. Step one on step one you got to have your software IDE basically. Yes. Okay. Yes, your IDE. Passing is how you get the ball from one player to another. So there's five players on each side. You throw it. And you throw it to your teammates so you can try to break the defense and get inside so passing, that's your testing. It's like your alpha testing, beta testing, trying to get to the get to the end because the idea is to get a basket, right? So shooting, that's your deliverables. And you throw it up. That's when you throw it up and you deliver and you make a basket shipping product, shipping. Shipping your product. These are the same words, deliverables. Does that mean to? . When you deliver a product, we must have a product . Can you imagine a basketball coach is in the in the huddle and they're like, guys, guys, we gotta really hit on our deliverables right now . We got to get the passes and get our delivery We got to ship. We gotta get market fit between the basketball and the hoop is really high. Yeah , exactly. Yeah, okay. Yeah. So the entire time these teams are trying to get as good as possible at shipping as many products as possible more than all the other teams. Okay. I'm dead serious. If you ship more products than the other team, you win. But you only have four twelve minute quarters . The fiscal year, I mean, divided up into quarters Q three and Q four . The more products you ship the better, if you ship more than the others, you win. And there's a single game, you might ship like seventy products. Yeah. And the thing is you are competing directly against the other team who is trying to stop you from shipping products , right? They're going to try to interrupt your testing , your development, right? Your shipping process , all of that. Okay . But there are rules , right? So every team has players that have different roles and different styles . And occasionally a member of the other team will try to mess with your team . We don't like those players very much. You know, some call them like dirty players like Wimby. You're supposed to play within the rules. Obviously, some people kind of try to bend the rules like Wimby. What do we say about Wimby? But we always always know know. We always we know there are , you know, these pieces fit together like puzzles. These players on these teams, these leaders and these teammates are all trying to ship products as quickly as possible . But if they do their role really well, then they can pass it to the next role in the next role. You get through the software development phase really quickly and then you ship it and then you mark it and you do the whole thing really, really fast, then you're successful . Okay . So everyone has to know their ro le. Nick's team as Apple executives go? Great. Okay, that's a great place to start. Nick's team as Apple executives , the captain just players. You probably start with the captain, right? Yeah, tell me about the roles. Yeah, great. So players have different size roles and players have different sizes different appreci ation. Yeah, and different appreciation. Just based on what they're good at. In sports, it might be just because you're taller or shorter or you have a certain skill set that lets you do the thing. Yeah . That's kind of like in tech, you might be a really good supply chain person or you might have a business mind or you're a ruthless leader who's like galvanizing the troops and gets people behind him. So a sports team with a captain like the Knicks, that's Jayalen Bronson . That's the captain. That's the MVP of the team, the best player, finals MVP . He's the guy that everybody recognizes when you look at that company. So at Tim Cook, I think Tim Today that's Tim Cook. Okay. It's also Brunson is also very well liked. Yeah . And so Tim Cook seemed very well liked. Yeah, I'd say I would say Steve Jobs for being a visionary , but it seemed like a lot of people were not the biggest Steve Jobs. Yeah, if we gotta get results, but you know what I'm saying? Yeah, modern apple, we'll go with Tim Cook just because he's the guy who's getting the results and he is ruthlessly consistent and maybe even a little underrated despite his success. So that's Jayalen Bronson, Tim Cook. Okay . All right, who's the second player on the next we should go with? Carl Anthony Towns. Carl Anthony Towns. Yeah. All right. Carl Anthony Towns is, I mean, there's a starting five on the team, so I feel like we should go through the five, but he's arguably one of the most important players on the knicks. So he's like benched until he's not, is that the situation? No. So he plays, he's a starter. Five players play . it Five players start, okay? On the next year , Carl Anthony Towns, who happens to be a seven foot center who can shoot and pass and basically do everything a center should do. Seven foot. Yeah, seven feet tall. You're a big boy. He was crazy about basketball. Everyone looks normal sized. No, that's Jaylen Brunson's two and he looks tight. He looks like most of his head. But yes, he looks small. Yeah . So Carline Finne Towns is seven feet tall. And he's he's very well rounded, so I feel like I would put him in a like executive position as well. I'm tempted to give him like a management. So in the post season I was gonna say in the post season he actually was he became a big passer. So if we're saying that passing is testing, he would maybe be like chief of software. That could be that's Craig Frederick. Yeah, Craig Frederick. Yeah. So Craig Frederick one of the most recognizable faces at Apple, pretty versatile, but everyone knows his chops his software he leads the software team. Yeah . And yeah, that's, you know, Caranthy Towns has his specialty, but he's able to move around in his role and do stuff like ship and tests. So yeah, Carl Anthony Towns, Craig Fedrigi. I like that. Josh , or Josh Hart 's Joss. Josh Hart is I will do Josh. Josh Hart is Jaws. Is that because he's the longest ten ured man? No, that's Mitchell Robinson. I think Josh Hart would be Jos because he's the marketing guy and Josh Hart is the heart of the team. It's like the slogan. He's all over social med ia. He's like the face basically next to Brunson. Okay. Yeah, Josh Hart, his role on the court is maybe not as large in terms of contributing to winning and shipping products. Okay , but you still need a Josh Hart on your team. You need someone who's going to do the dirty work, doesn't get a ton of credit, doesn't have the best counting stats . But he might only he might only ship one product for the whole game. Yeah, he's still going to be a winning party. He's going to ship the product that nobody else. What makes him good Just a simple drive to do the dirty work that nobody else would have done. In a basketball sense that is jumping and getting a rebound that looked like no one was get going or to diving on the floor for a loose ball that either team could have gotten. There's a lot more diving this season than I remember when I was a child . Yeah, yeah. Yeah. People diving a lot. In Apple World, you know, jaws is interesting because marketing tends to get , I feel like they get a lot of credit maybe for shipping, even though they don't actually ship anything , right? Like marketing . But I do like jobs 'cause yeah, it's a face that you recognize when you think about the company. That you need one. Got it. How many players are there again? We're just doing the starting five. We're through three out of five now. Okay, how many players are there on each team? fifteen. What? Well, actually eighteen including two way players. Why do they have that many ? Because it's a long time hired and wow. Yeah, everybody, you can't, you can't be shipping products by yourself. You need help all the time. You need help. We got to take breaks. The starting five are the ones that always start and then they rotate out for the most part. I mean, sometimes the start of change, which is like executive turnover . Okay. Sometimes the executive isn't performing the way you want them to, and you maybe maybe you demote them , give them a little a little step down or maybe you just fully cut ties and like a Seri Agu cut them. Yeah. So I think the John Turnis as a CEO is kind of like benching that would be like benching a we're not going to do this . We would it would be like benching Jaylen Bronson for a new point guard. You know, it could be, you know what? The real thing is it's going to be like in ten years when Jaylen Bronson is getting ready to retire. Theick will Kn haves a new point guard ready to go . And then they'll say, you know what, Jaylan , and he'll make his own choice much like a Lebron Luca. Yeah, I think. Yeah, pretty much. Yeah. Like we're going to see this soon with Lebron and Lu Donkchaic, where LeBron is going to finally hang it up, say, you know what? I've had a great career. Is he still playing? Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Just like Tim Cook. Why didn't he win? Because he wasn't his team wasn't good enough this year. Also Luca, the guy who's replacing him didn't play for most of the post seasons. Oh , okay. Oh, let's go through the rest of the guys. Okay. So yeah, typical AI overview, starting five wrong . By the way, even when you click the images, every single photo is the five people you're talking about, but AI or maybe does not have Josh Harp. Who did it add instead of Josh? What numbers he wear? Nicole. Five precious precious precious wasn't even on the team this year. Oh wait, really? I think it's amazing. That's when I pronounced his name right now. I was like, that's a good sacua man. Oh my god, he wasn't even on the team this year. All right, last two starters. OG . OG . Jack of all trades. Definitely Jack of All Trades and he's the guy that did the tip. He did the tips. Exactly. And was incredibly versatile and useful for them for the entire playoff run . Helped them ship a lot of products . Also helped the other teams helped stop the other teams from shipping a lot of s he' a defense guy. He's a two way guy. He's doing a lot of the good positive shipping and a lot of the stopping the other team from shipping. Okay . In Apple executive level , I got to reach one here. Okay , hit me. Johnny Shruggy. Oh, I was gonna say stinking. Yeah. Oh Shruji. Shruggi. Shruggi is the guy that makes the chicken makes the chips. And he's the like engine behind the reason I like this. I was gonna say Turnis for like launching Apple Silicon. Turnus might be better. I think Saruji is good because not only is Apple Silicon so good that other companies have to like chase that, but it's like it's the reason that Apple is it's not the head, it's not the iPhone like Jaylin Brunson, but it is also a massively important thing for them. Yeah, yeah. I like that. I also like that I've recently found out in recent weeks. I watched a couple interviews and he's like a really quiet guy. Suruji? Yeah, no, no, no, no. OG. OG. OG ? Oh, you seen that yeah. He went on a late night show a couple of days ago . He was every question. He just Yeah, it's 'cause he probably hasn't slept in four days. Yeah. Yeah. He's also extremely quiet. Yeah, he's so funny. Yeah. Or who's the last guy. Last guy's Michael Bridges. I have a pitcher. Ironman. He's he's six foot six seven. Five. Oh, that was six seven person. Yeah. Michael Bridge is like six, five or six six,. He's a wing has a very very long wingspan, which is your how far your arms go. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's great also great at defense, very similar OG Anonobi, but I'm going to say I think maybe he would be I had to look up this. I'm not gonna lie. Sabi Khan, chief operating officer. I knew the position I wanted to give him. I didn't know who it was at Apple, but I think Michael Bridges is a chief operating officer because he is extremely well liked. He's a good vibes guy . He doesn't necessarily always make the biggest impact on the game, but he's keeping everybody in line. Yeah, he's keeping operations going. And we learned that after they won the championship, all the next players talked so highly of him. And his impact on the locker room and everything. What did he do? He bought the Rolexes. What did he do in the games that was like a big deal? In the finals or in other games? In the finals? In the finals, he played really good defense. He had a couple games actually technically the game where Brunson scored almost fifty the final game. He was the second leading score with a whole fourteen points. So kids So he was the he was the second leading shore . Yeah , yeah. He does similar things. OG plays really good defense and he actually he does handle the ball a decent amount. So he did a decent amount of passing, so testing, you know, whatever our NPC is like the executive that gets in the test and actually does some coding once in a while. Yes. He can do a little bit of everything. But isn't really on stage. He also never missed the game. He has not missed the game his entire MBA career. What? Yeah, Jinx, that's crazy. No, I mean, he 's out there. It's nothing. It's out there . There's no jinxy at this point. That's wild . Okay , yeah. So there is obviously some puzzle piece nature to it. You gotta have pieces that fit together. Not everyone can have overlapping roles. If you have a bunch of Jaylen Brunsons, it sounds great, but you're going to be missing some parts of the game . So you have these complementing pieces kind of like different parts of an executive team on a tech company. And they all combine together to do the thing, ship lots of products, stop other companies from shipping products, take competitive wins , give other teams losses . That's it. Can we talk about the positions ? Like yeah I guess the positions? Yeah, we kind of try to I mean, so chief operating officer being like the small forward who's kind of just in the middle of a whole bunch of things called forward the captain is often point guard doing most of what is visible. Yeah, so the point guard in basketball . These are fair questions . That is never understood these except for centers. Should I just list these real quick? Yeah, okay. I'll list them and I'll just give the basketball explosion . Then we can start relating. Okay, yeah. Yeah, five positions. Yeah. And these positions become more and more fluid over time. Like I feel like the these used to be more hard and fast, you know, like each position did a specific role . Now you're having people have to be way more multifaceted flexible in how they play. Yeah. So they in general it's a one through five and the golden state warriors who a lot of tech people may be familiar with because of their silicon valley roots. Oh yeah , let's compare them to Dota . Doda also has five different door. Okay. That actually probably was gonna try and help and we're going to get these as maple lanes. Okay, okay. So you're not we're just gonna explain a niche thing and turns out even more niche things. But so the five positions point guard traditionally is the smallest player on the team . They are starting the point of the other team no they're running a point they're running point, right? That's a common term. So they're running point, which is to say that they are the one bringing the ball down the floor and starting what your team does. So they have the ball in their hands the most. They're setting everybody up. Orchestrating. Orchestrating. I'm kind of surprised that they even like have a guy that's supposed to do that every time instead of just everybody. Teams that don't have that struggle mightily . It's like IGL. Not having a good point . The Knicks for a long time did not have a good point guard, which is why we all love Jail and Brunson so much. So the point guard is the guy who brings the ball down the floor, sets everything up for everybody. Yeah. The shooting guard is the second position. There are two guards. So the shooting guard also generally a little on the smaller end for a basketball player which is slightly bigger. Yeah, which is to say six foot five. Yeah .'m five nine baby Point guard. That player typically high level athlete , good shooter, scores the basketball lot, delivers lots of products. Right. Small forward, so there are two forwardss. There' the three. One of them is called the spot was the second one. The first one was the one point guard. Guard, second one is the two. The shooting guard. Now we're on the three, even bigger. Small forward, which is tough. Are you shorter? I mean, you know, Kevin Durant is considered a small forward, but he's like seven feet tall. We're roughly going in an order of size. Six eleven and Alex the one is the shooting guard is a little bigger. The small forward is a little bigger. Yeah, okay. Everybody keeps getting a little taller. Traditionally , the further you go down the numbers . So the three is a guy who's maybe six foot seven, six, seven. Six seven, you know. And will be a versatile player, defensive minded , usually plays good defense , can shoot well, that sort of thing. And then you have your power forward . Four. Big, powerful . Biggest guys. Right. Tank. OG on the next is the four, big strong man, big broad shoulders. Okay , you know, typically like six ten, six, eleven, six, nine, maybe something like that . And then you have the center , which is the biggest player, the five and otherwise known as the pivot because they pivot in the post and they score down low. Oh, that's they bang elbows and they get not Jaylen Rodson. No, no, I feel like he does that. Did they score the least amount of times? Depending on the center, some of the some of the most prolific scores in NBA history have been centers like Wilt Chamberlain who we'll talk about later. Wilt Chamberlain. We'll talk about him later, but in the modern game, yes, I would say centers generally scored the least. Okay, the players on the team for the most part and be it feels like Jaylen Brunson kind of because he's shorter, he's kind of like shoving people, getting in there, really shoving his way in and then doing the two. That's because Jaylen Brunson is a dog. Okay. That's another basketball term with a W. Right. Yeah. And that's why you sing who let the dogs out. Like the Nick's head coach does. Didn't he say stop that? He did. I think it was wrong. She was like , asked you to stop doing that. Yeah , I think Bronson did that or yeah, it's the layer. That's pretty good. Okay, wait, I have so my terms are from legal legends, but I think it should be pretty close to what are the five legal legends . Okay, so I have point guard is mid mid kay. Usually don't call Brunts and Mid No ides like that . Made is like the most important lane that once you can make it to both lanes, they're usually have the most kills in a game. Like they're okay . They're solo. Okay, so Mid is dominant. It seems mid should be is the same in Dota and League. Yeah, and they can like win a game. If you are a really good midlaner, you can get true. Yes I have shooting guard. We call them ADC or like what that means. AD is they the ones that we have it is like a bot lane carry that generally brings a support with them. They're farming a lot in League it's generally attack damage versus called carry and do. Okay, so carry. So that's like Bot Carrie also can have a lot of kills but has a little more support with them in the and like kind of it's like a damage whereas the point guard scoring all the points. So maybe ADC bot carry is getting eighty six . Attack damage carry? Oh, okay. Small forward, I have his jungle. We don't have a jungle laying in Dota. There's no jungle in Thoda. There is jungle, but do they kind of push one meta ? It's not okay. I'm like fifteen minutes. I could feel my eyes glazing over. Is this what people feel like when I explain sports to them? Have you yes? See us over twenty minutes now , I get it now. Oh my God, I understand so much about myself and others. Okay, imagine old jungle then. Well, like there was never a dedicated jungle lane. Okay. It's just not a lane, but it's a position Dodi. You have mid, carry , you have tank, which is called off lane. Which I know that one. I know that one. This is like when you know one basketball thing. I know tanks. I know tank. But they don't call it tank and don't call it. It's called whatever. Yeah. And then there's two supports. There's hard support , which is like the weakest support that supports the hard carry. Okay, and then there's a soft support which supports the tank. Slash . I don't wanna say this out loud because I'm gonna get destroyed by the Dodo fans that have made it this far into the basketballs. cont Right.ract Also I have a feeling jungle and soft carry or soft support are probably pretty similar. Like jungle in League is they're just farming the middle and not taking farm from everyone else and then they're supporting all of the other lanes by jumping into them and yeah, sort of like soft support and sorry what is farming is farmers farming in these games in order to get money to get more items, there's also to get nonplayable creeps and if you hit them last you, get money. So you are fighting each other and fighting to get money at the point . What did the creeps do to get categorized as creeps? Were they ? They work way for me. They work for the right people. They're kind of creepy, to be honest. They're creepy looking. Okay, so then I have power forward as top which for you forward. Power is a basketball franchise . I've never heard that in Dodo before . I have it as top lane, which for you is off lane or off lane. Yeah, yeah, it sounds like they're very similar. And then just main support, did you call it main support? Hard support. Hard support. Hard support, bot lane support is centered. Center. What is the center one of basketball? Speak boy is a guy in the in mid thed mleid.dle Big boy. He's gobbling up rebounds and playing to get back out. Playing out of the plane Who's the last line of defense in power forwards score more than center traditionally traditional traditions. I'd say a top lane. So the top lane is usually the initiator. So I feel like the initiator has got to be a point guard. Okay , maybe though no . Point guards should definitely be midlane. They're the carry. They're getting all the kills, they're scoring all the points . Maybe. That could be variable in basketball. Could be the point guard. Whoever your best player is Jaylin Brunons's a midlane. Yeah, def heinitely for sure. Here's the thing. Here's the and this might be true about Dota two . You know, and there's there's the roles in the play style from the one through the five, but different teams have a different member of that team that's that super true also if you're a best player is your one, then you build your team around that. If your best player is your three , then you build your team around that. If your best player is a five, you build your team. I don't think how much you compare them perfectly. Like that makes this argument even stronger. Like yeah the top lane can carry as an unkillable tank like sometimes all sports like the same that's what we're saying even sports even eports even e sports can you guys so I play CS and Valorant can you explain ? Oh my God. And how about candy crush? Wait, so really the basketball players are like the different angry birds. No, no . I mean, you're not wrong. I could do that. I'm a big angry birds guy so I could do that. Let's continue with the basketball tech stuff because we are a tech podcast. Yeah . So what's so far away? What's next on your on your talk we about types of sh ots . Yeah. Well, so sure , David did ask what a layup is, so yeah. Yeah. So the basket, you know what the basket looks like and you know what it means to score a basket the ball go through the basket, right? Yeah . So further away from the basket, harder is shot. Yeah, right . Right next to the basket, if you're just laying it off the glass and in, that's called a layup. You just literally go lay up right next to the basket. If you actually jump up and slam it through the basket, that's a slam dunk slam. You've heard that term. I've heard dunk, yeah. You've heard of a slam dunk product. Like something is a slam dunk. It's like the easiest bam, guarantee it's going to be a winner. For sure. Like that. That's Apple made a fitness band. Dunk. Apple added USBC to AirPods Max. Slam Dock, exactly. I don't know about that. As you get further away, sharp missing. All these shots, by the way, are worth two points. Yeah, yeah. Far enough away. If you get far enough away there's a line, an arc on the basket, it's a three point line . If you shoot from behind the three point line and score, it's worth three points. Yeah. You can imagine the distribution being like the easiest shots are right next to the basket. They're worth yeah in Steph Curry. We'll get to him. He makes it look really easy. He makes it look really easy. Okay. Analytically the next easiest shot is slightly further away and slightly further away, but you get to a point where if you're at the longest possible two pointer, okay, you might as well step back and make it a three pointer because it's not much harder, but it's worth fifty percent more points. Okay. A lot of teams study this and they realize, wow, if we want to ship a lot of products, it be more'd efficient for us to ship a lot of three pointers even though they're a little bit harder they're worth a lot more points. Every EV startup ever who's like we'd rather ship the really expensive ones right now. Oh before, the cheap one the ones that feel like they're slightly harder to ship but that you know you will ship way more of. Right. That's the stuff which is like Apple's strategy, right? Like Samsung ships like a bazillion sch es of their phones. And so does Navo and Apple, but Apple's just like, we only make five products, but every single one of them is gonna sell a bazillion. That's a really good. Yeah. So certain companies like Samsung who ship a ton of stuff, they're like, I'm trying to think of a team that just shoots whatever. The hornets, the Brooklyn houses for your hornets. Yeah, shoot. Their shot chart, which is like the graph on the court of where they shoot from is all over the place . And it's fine because they're equally good at everything. It's like and they score a lot of points. So they take a lot of weird shots but they hit a lot of them. So you might have heard of the Golden State Warriors who are maybe closer to Apple conveniently because they're a California team, but they have a slightly more selective shot chart, meaning they're really good at three pointers and lay ups and dunks. Yeah . And why bother with the mid range stuff? Like Apple could add stuff to their plate and ship more products, but yeah, iPhones, Macs that's all they really have. Yeah. Unless you're Stef Curry and you shoot from half court and that's like if the Vision Pro is successful. Yeah . Yeah, you probably heard yeah, there's terms like a Hail Mary or like a like a deep buzzer beater. Yeah, yeah. That would be like deep three . Deep three. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Okay . So yeah, three pointers, Steph Curry is really good at three pointers. That's like Apple being really good at iPhones. Right. They ship a ton of them and they' s not many who can stop it . And why do anything else at this point? Right? Adam and I actually related that when we were cooking up this episode to like a software feature that initially you didn't think you needed , but that then you get it and then you never want to live without it again. It's like it was the three point shot was disregarded for a long time as just sort of a luxury. Oh, wireless charging . Right. And then it became I love three pointers. Yeah . And then and then suddenly teams came around on it and they said, wait, three is greater than two. Why don't we shoot more of these? I don want't to figure that out. No wire is better than wire. I don't get how people can't figure that out. Yeah. Right. And then and then teams just became now it's like you can't live without it. Right. It's the feature in the URL's charging. Yeah. I've. oh Are you still gonna talk about points? Apple. So I have two questions about points. Arm. I could do I want me to give the nerdy math that has defined the NBA for the last ten years? Yeah. I want to make your guys' eyes glaze over real quick. I'm ready. Okay. All right. So accomplished, ladies. All right, so the three point shot used to be a luxury in the NBA. It was introduced in the nineteen seventy nine to eighty season, where before that any shot on the court was worth only two points. What ? Yeah, they used to not. There was no extra line . That's crazy. Yeah . Wow. The eighties. So we're forty years away. It's already gone off the rail four point . Blowing away sorry. When I was watching the Amb ia in the nineties, there was a three point . It was already a three point. Did you hear when I said they introduced it seventy nine eighty seasons? Yeah, that's crazy . That's so wild. Okay, okay. So I'll start from the topic. No, no. All right, all right. Come on. So the three point shot is longer than a two point shot. There's a line that defines where you do it and it's worth as the name implies, three points of two points. Right. So teams for decades still ran most of their offense inside the three point line because that was previously what was considered like real basketball or whatever. And that's just what teams were used to. Yeah . But around twenty fourteen, fifteen, Steph Curry's rise with the warriors and they're getting Steve Kerr as head coach. Teams finally did some math and realized that three is greater than two. So I'll explain how this works percentages wise, right? So the nerdy math that has basically defined the MBA for the last decade is this. Every possession in the NBA is dictated by the amount of points you can get per possession, right? What is a possession? So possession time you hold the ball and bring it down the floor and try to score, right ? A good point per possession number is generally anything over one. If you're scoring fifty percent of the time on a two point shot, that's one point per possession, right . So shooting sixty percent on two point shots has generally been kind of the line considered good for shooting a two point shot. If sixty percent of the time you make it Yeah, that's considered a good. That's one point two points per possess ion. Okay . However, teams finally figured out, wait, if we shoot forty percent from three , right, that's the same as shooting sixty percent from two . It's all one point two points per possession. Right, true. And therefore , teams put a huge emphasis on shooting threes about ten years ago . And it has completely changed the entire game of basketball and made it more focused on shooting threes instead of two s. Would you say that drives are also harder to guard ? To an extent , it's also changed how defense is. Yeah. Yeah. I think the idea is it's easier to get above forty percent from three than it is to get above sixty percent from two. Right . So people are if you can get a layup or an easy two, that's great. But those mid range shots that are like a jump shot and someone's guarding you, you might as well step back behind the three point line and make forty percent of those instead of taking a long to and trying to make sixty percent of those. Do you need the explanation of what a jump shot is? By the way, jump and they shoot it. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. It's pretty self explanatory, but I want to have a name for that. Thank you. Because you could take a set because a layup, you don't have to jump. You can also take a set shot. You can take a shot without jumping. Right next to the basket. Yeah. You just you just sort of lay it up. That's what the layup is where you like. So early also the jumping is part of strategy . Early on you used to have your feet set when you shot, but then but then people discovered that if you jump and then shoot, you can get your shot even higher up so nobody can block it. How long did it take for them to realize that? Yeah, basketball seems like they're just discovering the simplest discovery. Yeah, it's not new. It's a basket. This is all in the sixties, like at the beginning. I think the jump shot came about in like the fifties. When did it start? Wait, when did basketball start? nineteen thirty something? Okay . With a peach, a peach basket. What is that? James Nasty. Oh, they're a basket that you collect peaches on. eighteen ninety one peaches. Oh, eighteen ninety one. Man, I thought it was When I was reading ninety one, the first game was in eight een it took them till the fifties to figure out if you jump, it goes higher More than two. It's not that it took them in trouble. It's not that it took them that long to figure it out, but it's like the whole point of scoring points is you want to be consistent and make it easy. And if you're jumping, that introduces a variable of like, well, if I jump at a different height, I got to compensate for that and it's difficult . And so a lot of training and a lot of people doing it, eventually they figured out how to jump consistently and make shots. It's the same as the three point line. Like that existed for many, many years. It's not like nobody realized it was worth three , but teams finally got good enough at making that very long twenty five foot shot that it finally became worth it if you can finally shoot forty percent from three. Okay . So the evolution of the game has pushed slowly slowly slowly, incrementally better and better of. like K theind chip getting slightly faster on the iPhone. It's not like we didn't know the faster chip could eventually play this game . But we've been working towards this slowly, slowly, slowly, slowly generation after generation until it's gotten to where it is today. Okay. Okay, two questions about points. Yes. Points, points. Do you want the short one or the long one first? Either I guess both at the same time. One , basketball players , why do they miss free throws? Why do they miss? They get the answer to this. Absolutely much money . Why? And there's an answer. It's literally the same thing every time it's called free. It's true. You should always work. It should be a free fantastic question. I mean, do you hit three frogs? So here's the real answer. I'm not getting millions. Here's the real answer. If you watch an NBA player in an empty gym , they basically make every shot they take. It's kind of terrifying . It's kind of terrifying. Like they make bas ically every shot, right? When you introduce the variable of the real world , stuff gets a little weird sometimes. There's a crowd behind the basket, they're cheering, there's pressure, there's a score. There's people who are like hoping you know , there's a whole bunch more to it. This is like shipping software with bugs. Yeah, I was literally about to say bugs, do. In theory in theory, it should work a hundred percent of the time. I'm just pressing the button and the software's supposed to do the thing . Of course it should work every single time. It should be a free, it should be a layout for these companies. It should work every time. It's a really good idea. But for some reason you put it in the real world and then people get their hands on it and it's doing stuff that you didn't expect and it's odd. And it's not so much yet, obviously some of it is a skill issue, but it is just the fact that the real world variables sometimes stirs you up. Why throws some off more than it throws others? Like why did the screenshot tool in Iowa twenty seven just not screen not crop things anymore. Like they couldn't have changed the code where they're like, We're changing the way screenshots work completely. Like they didn't do that. It's the same as before, but now just doesn't work . What happened now? What happened? And that's like , that's like changing your shooting form. Sometimes players they go , I don't, I don't think the way I'm shooting is proper. And then they change how they shoot and then it ruins it. They drag their liquid glass slider. That's crazy. Yeah, yeah. Okay. Okay, I really like the bug analogy. My second question, when do I cheer for a point because they're when teams of them? Yeah. I listen, if you have to cheer fifty times a game, you're not checking the decision. That's like that's a variety. I think this is a supercomport where they score once or twice. So you can't this ain't soccer. The general rule of basketball is you wait the most important times of the game are the final two minutes of each chaff. So why wouldn't you only show up for the final two minutes? Because you're real fans. Well those are the whole game line. There's a storyline. Okay . So it all adds up . There are some more important baskets than others . So obviously, if you're shipping a hundred products in four quarters, not every product is going to get a standing ovation. But we could do an apple analogy for this. Yeah. The bucket that they make in the middle of the third quarter is the polishing cloth. Yeah. Does it really nobody needs to cheer. There might be a junk it might be good cloth. Yeah There is going to be some fans that are going to cheer for that. But that's fine. We're at the toy the buzzer beater at the end of the fourth quarter that wins you the g ame is the iPhone. Yeah, you know. They're going to ship this iPhone and it's going to push them over the edge and the iPhone ultra now at the best they cheer a lot of MYSHIMAY I have another analogy here. Yeah. So staying for all of the points is kind of like going to see these developer conferences at IO . So you can see what's coming down. Like if you're there in the middle of a game and your team makes a bucket that is like they haven't scored in so long, but then they finally make a bucket. You can feel the momentum shift and you can be like, oh okay, this team is now going to from this point forward do well . And that's kind of like these developer conferences. You go to the developer conference and you can see where the company's vision is going. Okay, wait, they're on to something here. And those are the like points in the middle that don't really matter, quote unquote. That's like the filler episodes in anime . Sure , sure Like it means something to the story But you can probably just watch the important . It's like the bonus episodes on the Waveform podcasts Oh my god, this is like inception now. We're on a bonus episode . I just felt the momentum shift, I think . You know how on the Waveform podcast when they do the bonus episodes? They're not really that important to the story, but the fans stay again. This is a film. No, we're going is the filler episode. This is the most anime filler episode of all form episodes. This is our crossover, dude. This is the baseball episode of Dragon Ball Super right here. Yeah. I like the draft because this is a really interesting one. That's unique bas toketball dra draft theft. Yes. Unique to sports there is no equivalent for this in the tech world. So I'm going to give you a what if. Okay, that might keep it interesting. Because we have these tech companies operating competing against each other and you know, capitalism is supposed to say that the best products in the best ones win. In sports , if we leave it like that for too long, you're going to get teams that are just so far ahead of other teams that the other, especially newer franchises will never get any chance to catch up. Yeah. So here's what we do. After every year , every season, we have a draft . And the team that was the worst this past year gets the first pick in the draft roughly. This isn't an exact science , but they get the highest picks in the draft. And the teams that were really, really, really good, okay, you don't need a bunch more talent. So they get the last picks in the draft. Okay. So how the draft is drafting among this brand new upcoming talent from college similar to tech companies. Okay. When they say eighteen, right? Basically. Okay . So here's a what if for you, imagine if the least successful tech companies the last year got the most the highest picks of all the best college talent going to them . And the most successful teams, the best tech companies in the world, didn't get any of that talent. Yeah. They have to pick the scraps from who's left. Just pretend for a minute that money doesn't exist at all . That's almost the exact eating of what tech does because when you graduate college at like top year class, you're probably going to be poached by the biggest and you're going to want to pick the biggest company because you'll make the most money and go to the thing that's already doing really well . So it's the opposite. I guess if college players didn't have a draft, they would leave college and be like , oh, the team that just won the championship wants me. I'm going to want to play the team maybe I want to championship. Maybe this is how we bust up big tech. We institute a draft . And then the lesser companies will become better. Yeah, it makes it more easy to see in sports because the teams are smaller and one high talent can have a big impact on winning . But if you imagine essentially the draft from college, upcoming talent in that way in tech, it would be like if the best companies who are the most successful made the most money do not have access to the best talent. They have to do it again next year with what they're saying Like best guy out of Stanford's like, I have to go work for Humane . Ouch . But sometimes what happens is all of that talent goes to humane and then humane as a great and then humane figures out. And then HP makes a printer that can and you're like, wow. Crazy. See, we have all this competition. It's an even playing field again. Yeah. So people like that. In the sports world really like that it keeps it even interesting. The worst teams get way better. Yeah, I mean, it would be cool if like, you know, instead of Apple having forty percent of the RAM supply every single year, if suddenly that went to like an up and coming company. Oh man, yeah, maybe that's the way we do the draft. We make it random supply. That almost feels like formula one in terms of like wind tunnel time where the worst teams get more tunnel time to develop their car. It's sports too, but yeah, yeah, exactly. Okay, I like what do they call that in Dota? That's a balance patch basically. Oh, balance balance patch. And if tech had balance patches, you know the you know the physics? I don't know how real this is, but you know the video game slingshot physics where if you're in the last place in Mario Kart, you get all the better power up Yeah. . Social. It's like that. Yeah, okay. Yeah, socialism. Yeah . So if the team, if you're in last place, here's a here's a weird thing. Okay. And this is, this is kind of a problem in the NBA and in sports. Sometimes someone will intentionally go to last place in Mario Kart to get the better power up for because they know that that's going to get them back to wow . That's I don't know why you're really explaining it to like your child they do this in the school do. Yeah, they do this in basketball. They won't intentionally. They'll do what's called tanking. Yeah . You tank yourself. Should that be against the rules? So they should and they're and they just instituted new rules to stop wait, what is it? The PWHL has an awesome rule for this action. So without getting too into the weeds on it, basically what the So the NBA has a lottery at the end of the season typically if you're worse, you get a higher chance of getting the number one overall p ick. What they're now doing is they're flattening those odds. So they're making it so that the worst teams actually only get like instead of it used to be like a twenty five percent chance again number one pickage of them. Now you have only like a ten percent chance and then the teams in the middle get a slightly better amount. And then the teams actually that barely miss the playoffs now get like an eight percent chance of gaining the number one pick. So what's that power up in Mario Kart where you just get like the black full and middle bullet thing will yeah you just soar across everything . That's like the number one pick in the draft. It's not a guarantee, but the number one pick in the draft is going to be immensely talented and push you from the middle of the mattress at least . So there will be a team slash Mario Kart player with more than enough talent and skill to come in second or third place , but they see that they're not going to win . So they just hit the brakes and go all the way to last place. They pick up the bullet and then they go all the way back to second or first and you're like that's just so your reaction is the general public's reaction to tanking in the NBA so yeah you nailed it took them this many years to make that against the rules they tried to it's actually hard to force . So initially it was literally like if you are the last place team, you are the first pick in the draft. Right. Then it was like, okay, I will literally lose all of my games because I want to be the first pick the d atraft. They're like,, okay okay . If you are in the bottom five , then we'll have this little lottery system and you'll get more of a chance of last pick, but you're not going to guarantee first pick. Yeah. And it's still a pretty good chance the first pick if you're in last place so the teams are still trying to get last place like all right there ever been a circumstance where multiple teams were trying to tank literally this year but he could win because everyone's trying to lose Yeah. Is that what the Sixers did or are they? They did last year. Yeah, the Sixers tanked last year. And Ellis is a fan of these? Yeah . Well, he's watching. You know? He's on his plane back from vacation listening to this. It's kind of funny because kind of like in tech and in a lot of other things, the worst thing to do is be like in purgatory in the middle. You want to be winning franchise top of your game in your prime like, unbeatable , or bankrupt , wipe it, start it over, right? Because if you're in purgatory like petering and you can't really do anything about it, Guampla. The draft is like a government bailout . Like you don't want to be a mid team bro . So a good draft pick could finally change that for you. So a mid team will tank to try to get a good draft pick. They penalize you if you if they catch you tanking? Allegedlyly . Alleged. But yeah, it's like, hey billionaire owner, that wasn't great. It was a fifty thousand dollars fine. It's like, oh, okay, whatever. This might be we're going further from tech, but I just want to explain to you guys what the women's hockey league is doing. They do something called the gold plan. Well, once you are mathematically eliminated, then your wins start accumulating points towards the draft pick. And then so every time a team gets eliminated , every win they get after that gets them closer. That's so sad. That's awesome. So it incentivizes you to win. Why don't they do that in basketball? Wow, no Adam Silver. Come on, man. Specifically good because a lot of late season games are boring are mathematically irrelevant, right? It'll be like, oh, we've scheduled this out from the beginning of the season, but it turns out this Charlotte Hornets versus Chicago Bulls game is two teams that are already mathematically eliminated and have no reason to win. And so they sit all of their best players and people will go to the game and pay and show up and get to watch horrible basketball not show up at all in the arena's empty . And it's just it's a pain. So that would make those games interesting to watch because those are you. Yeah, because then they might get a draft pick. That would tell the statisticians. That's a really good idea. Shout out to that leak. Yeah, awesome. Yeah. Cool. Cool. Okay, should we take a break? We've gone. Oh yeah. I assumed you were putting a break in there somewhere . Here is a natural spot for a break. Okay , we'll be right back. We've all been there noisy unifl , music blaring , phones going off in the library , but with long lasting battery life on the lightweight and portable Dell XPS powered by Intel Core Ultra , you can get away from the distractions without needing to find a plug . So you can get back to well built for those who get things done, the Dell XP S built for you Dell.co. uk forward slash learning . The Illumination for since minions and monsters You want to make a monster movie? And what are you going to use for your monster? On july first I know the perfect monster for your movie just try not to look too delicious. Quick question. I want to eat one of these funny looking yellow guys, is that okay? Nadians and monsters in cinemas Wednesday July one. Book tickets now. I'm Seth Matlin s. My new show Creator Destroy Reimagining Marketing explores how every decision a company makes, not just the marketing ones, but the HR, IR, pricing, or design, and planning ones, the ones most don't consider marketing at all contribute to either creating val ue or destroying it. Each week I sit down with CMOs, CEOs, founders, cultural thinkers, the people building, breaking and reimagining how businesses grow or don't, for conversations about what creates value and what destroys it? It's a business show, it's a marketing show. Creator destroys the show that argues they've always been the same thing from the Box Media podcast network and the Wisdom is Company . New episodes drop weekly on YouTube and your favorite podcast app. Welcome back. I have a question. What does the coach do? Yes . Okay , you know, Mike Brown, you know, he's the Knicks' co coachach. He ed the Sacramento Kings before this. Yes, got booted off the Sacramento King Wow. Ball . Ball knowledge just saying. You know how many teams he's been fired from? Like half a dozen. It's crazy. And it's because there has to be I think there's a tech analogy for that too. The top teams like trade . That's just every employee of a major tech company look at their LinkedIn. They look like a coach in the NBA. That goes somewhere else. Yeah. Tesla , Google because my question about the coach is like you know, they like call timeouts and then they talk to the players, but like what are they talking to them about? Like how does this work? Yeah . So the coach knows the range of talents to the players really well . And before every game, they do the hard work of looking at what the other team is really good at and how their team compares and what they should do to beat the other team. So the players, they come to the table with their skills and they're like, yeah, I'm a dunk it. And they're like, all right, you're good at dunking it. Okay. I'm going to put you in positions where you get a lot of dunks. Okay. But if you're playing against a team that's really good at defending dunks, they're like, all right, you're going to get rebounds and pass out to theed shooter because they're bad at defending shooters . So they're the brains orchestrating what the players are doing in theory. Yeah, I mean, if we're talking about like a technology if we go to the hardware side, they're like the logic board or whatever. With a bunch of agents at the orchestrator. All the players think they're building this incredible thing, but they need the person from outside to wrangle them back in, right? Like Snapchat could have used a coach to tell them those glasses . r Thatid'icsul ous. Yeah. Yeah. Like okay, so the Snapchat CEO in this analogy who clearly is the one that thought those were a good idea . Well, I don't know about that. I think they're aware of it. It seems like it's out of . But so whoever the person was that was pushing for the snapchat spectacles the most? Yeah, the specs. The specks. That person is like a basketball player that needs to be wrangled in and needs to be told you're shooting too much and you're not making your shots. Yeah. So we're gonna bench you. Okay . So that's the purpose of a coach. That's like the board? Sure, maybe. Because the board can like switch out it. Can switch out the CEO if they're not doing a good job. Yeah , kind of . This is not a pure one to one because there's also some way to say that like the coach could be the coach in the assistant coaches could be like a CEO, CO M, CMO, that sort of thing. There's an assistant coach too. There's like multiple assistants. Mike Brown famously this year was very collaborative. That was part of why they hired him. He was very open to listening to his assistant coaches focus on different areas of the game . So in pure basketball terms, the Knicks had like an assistant that was more focused on the offense. They had an assistant that was more focused on the defense. They had another guy that would sit on the second row that literally his whole job was should we review this play or not because you get to challenge plays if you think that the referees got the call wrong . And the Nicks had a super high conversion rate on successful challenges at that call. Like the legal team. Yeah, that's like their legal team actually this lawsuit. Yeah. Yeah. It's like is the lawsuit worth pursuing? Yes or no. That's basically they have an assistant that's like that. That's like their legal counsel. Yeah. But yeah, the coach makes decisions that it leads to the overall success and cycles people in and out . So a board is probably a good thing. You know, brings in turnover, has some churn , you know, to make sure that things stay fresh manages egos. Yeah. Player is doing pretty well but kind of getting tired. Hey, I know you're good but you're getting tired. Let me put the bench player on . They also set the road map in a way because for example, the Knicks this year played a style of defense under their old coach where you would try to force people to the perimeter to try to get them away from the inside of the so that they could get more two pointers because Jaylen Bronze is getting two pointers. Well, so this I'm talking about what they would do in defense. So the Nicks would try to make the other team not get to the inside for easy shots, right? Right. Oh , and then the Nick during their worst stretch this year tried something new and said, what if we defended the perimeter a lot, the three point shot and let teams get to the inside? And then teams were just getting layups left and right and it was not pretty. So then they switched their scheme back. Okay so they didn't look like outside like a Wemby. Yeah, right . Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Alex just broke a little bit . The spurs. They didn't have anyone to Flagran Fowler the other team. Yeah, Burr as you might know, have a player who's seven foot six with really long arms called Victor Wimbinyama and so they're in a year defensive player the year. And so their entire defensive strategy if you were smart, the coaches would go, hey , really close out on anyone trying to shoot a three pointer, make them stop pump fake and try to dribble and drive for a two because we've got an alien in there who will just block everyone. Is it pump fake where you pretend to shoot and then you don't? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, Stef Creed does that a lot. Yes., he's very good at it It's like when you're about to ship a product and you don't like air power. It's like it's fake Like the street like manifesto of them. We're releasing Let's go . You got pump eggs . Yeah . David just broke inside . Okay, okay, speaking of G A. Rocks are Hard they the best of Pump faces. That's true. Look at this trailer. Look at this trailer. You mentioned you mentioned the ref lect. Yes. So I went to a basketball game with you. Yeah . Well, no we watched it too. We watched it on TV. On TV. I yelled at the ref s a lot. I lost my voice. So there were multiple points for in the game where the ref would come out and he would talk about the type of foul . Can you explain the types of fouls that exist? Yeah , it's good. That's literally the next thing on the document. Oh, are you sure you didn't read that? I'm not on the document. That's crazy . There's two types of fouls. All right, so there's different types of fouls and violations. Shooting . Yeah . So we'll start with just a foul. Okay. So a fou l is when a player prevents another player from taking and or making a shot. Is that what you're supposed to? Well, we should start with the fact that basketball is a quote non contact sport. Yes. Oh. So in the basic sense, you can guard , but you can't make too much contact and that would be a foul. Unless your victor will be a victim. Yes. If you make too much contact, it's a foul. Unless you're the referees are the ones who decide how much contact is too much contact. And the thing is, especially with shooting , you're allowed to affect them however you can without touching their body while they're shooting. Unless you're Victor Romium. Unless you're Victor ian. Yeah, so unless you're aict vory of anyway. But the basic rule of fouling is if someone is trying to shoot, you can do whatever you can without touching their arms. Okay . You can also touch the ball. That's legal. If you just touch the ball that's called, all ball . You hit the ball, that's a block. All balls. Yes. Nice block. A block. Right. But if you hit their arm, then you're affecting their ability to shoot. And that's a foul. Okay, right. Like it's got to be more than just your arms 'cause if I p justunched someone in the gun, no, that also I'm trying to make it as simple as I can, but yes, if you do anything , that's a Wemby Found . It's any level of contact with the player . Yeah, yeah, like breaking their ACL while they're shooting, while they're dribbling . It's obviously more important to not foul when they're shooting because if you foul someone while they're shooting, then they go to the free throw line to make up for it. Okay . So if I go to take a shot and you don't foul and I make it , great. If I miss, oh well . But if I go to take a shot and you foul me, now I can go take those two free throws because I probably would have made it if you didn't foul me. Look if they think someone's got a lot of bugs. Foul them because they suck it for you . You can also think of this a bit like a data breach where a company goes whoopsy, we accidentally gave your credit card information away. You can join a class action suit and get five dollars from us now and that's your free throw. That's why . So yeah, yeah. One point, yeah, one point. So yeah, five dollars, one point. Yeah, five dollars one point. Each point in the NBA is worth five dollars. Now the thing the thing that you were talking about, which is the referee going to the table and figuring out what type of foul it is. Yeah is if you foul someone so hard and so eregiously, you break the rule so hard , it is more than a normal foul , then they'll penalize you even more than just free throws . So if someone goes to shoot or whatever and I punch you in the chest or whatever Andrew said if you do what Wemy would do average . That would be called not just a common foul but that's a flagrant foul. Fl fantra.gr And there was actually flagrant foul level one or level two. The penalties of flagrant penalty is worse. A flagrant foul level one is free throws and you get the ball again. Oh, you get a start with the ball after that. And a flagrant foul level two is free throws and the ball again and the player that committed it gets immediately tossed from the game. The rest of the game the rest of the game. It's a red car baby. It's a red , but you're allowed to have a player sub in for them, right? Yes on, the court. Yeah. Red cards you lose. Red card, you lose the player's spot. Adam . You ever watched soccer before? That's weird. It's called football. It's actually Footy. Wait, so if you lose what do you have to do to get a red card? That would be flag level two. Flagrant level two. So sometimes one less player the whole game. No, no, no, not in basketball. That's only for soccer. Okay. Soccer none of them do lose a player floor game. Right. So sometimes there's some super heavy level of contact and the player falls over , it looks like he's hurt and they called it a regular foul, but they're like, well, actually maybe that was a lot. So they'll go and review it, look at the replay and decide we're going to upgrade that or not a flagrant. A large part of flagrant fouling too is that they determined that it was not a basketball play, that it was just with the intent of hurting someone, basically . So the tech equivalent would be like, see it's a little different in tech again, but there are rules . There are laws. There are laws. There are laws . And these companies are supposed to follow these laws, but sometimes they will do things that are against the rules and they should be penalized for it . And that will come in the form of like you broke the law . Now we're going to sue you. You'll get sued . And BMW chating on gas emissions. For example, yeah. That might even be considered a flagrant fail. Sometimes the things that they do are so obviously cheating and so obviously against the rules that they get penalized above and beyond almost to make an example of them. Yeah. This happens all the time and tech with companies, that would be like a flagrant foul. Yeah, okay. It should really affect you. So physically, what's the difference between flag foul level one and level two? Often it's just intent or follow through. They'll say things like wind up, impact and follow through or excessive . It actually it actually carries sort of a similar thing to like manslaughter versus murder. Yeah. It's like were you just reckless or were did you have malice after God about what you were gonna do . Okay. Did you put you was there a bug in the software or did you put a tracker in the software? Yeah when Motorola happened to where I was that see or was that we're trying to make a lot of money act.ly Ex. Okay . And so that is the tech equivalent. Okay. So you in theory the teams play by the rules the whole time, but it's competition. Like they're going to be pushing the rules. They're going to be pushing the limits all the time. Fouls are expected to happen. Yeah. We would hope that the refere accurately set the line in the same place every time so that the players know exactly how aggressive . Sometimes they don't. And then refes suck is one of the chance that sports fans they don't get it right every time. And am I correct that if you get three flagrant fouls in a season, you get kicked off for the rest of the season? No. There's a couple of rules around fouls . If one player fouls six times in one game. Regular foul. Regular foul. Six regular fouls in one game. They're out for the rest of the game. Okay. Yep, that's the limit for regular fouls. Okay . If one player two flagrant penal ty ones , they're rejected for the rest of the rest for the rest of the game. If a player has a single flagrant penalty two, they're rejected for rest of the game. But the other thing that I was explaining, I know that I know why you're asking this because I explained this to the other day. Yeah , but basically in the post season especially there's you get a certain number of points. What's the post season? The post season is the playoffs like September, October. Yeah. After the regular season is done, then you play for the championship. That's called the post season. Yeah. That's gonna have to explain this. That's busy season. Yeah, it's busy season. When we have our iPhone events, our playoffs. That's our playoffs. Our playoffs, which is our analogy from Yiddle, watch Ital. But yeah, so basically in the post season during the most important games, during the playoffs So the post season is the playoffs? Is the playoffs? Yeah, they're playoffs are when the Eastern Conference or the Western Conference compete against each other and then the winner of each conference faces each other in the final which is why the Knicks just faced the spurs. And all the points you get in the regular season only some teams make it to the player. Yes. So in the regular season, you're trying to make it to the play offs, then matching rappens and then you're slowly working to work. And then you all play each other and then figure out who the true best team is. Okay So So as it relates to fouls in the post season, the playoffs synonyms , if you get a certain number of flagrant fouls in the post season , then you get suspended for an additional game. So Wendby should have been suspended for an additional game against the Nicks because he committed numerous flagrant fouls. But we'll call him like open AI. They get to steal your data, train their models on stuff illegally. And yet somehow there's just a government blind eye to it. And they never really get penalized. Get over the number of flagrant fowls. Well, he should have. He should have had a number of more flagrant fowls. Yeah. It was like, okay, did you Faglrant fowl steal all those videos for? So are you So the play where he shove Runton into the ground was a basketball play is what you're telling. This was a referee issue that you have. Yes, it's a referee issue. It's a regulatory issue. If you are this, and we'll get into fandoms in a second or if you are a fan of one of these type companies slash teams, you may interpret each other was a bad idea . You may interpret the lawsuits that hit them a little bit differently than if you are not. Oh, I see. That's all I'm saying is your dad and I are fans of the same tech company in this analogy. So speak carefully, Pal. I'm just saying if there are there are a lot of people who are, especially like I try to consider myself neutral. I don't have a horse in the race. I've seen lots of fouls that I would think are flagrants that don't get called from both teams , but that's up to the refs. So the referees are humans instead of machines and so they almost act like a hand on the scale a little bit sometimes where it can feel like they're being paid certain referees are almost like only judging one way. They're only enforcing the rules for one company like the other whole series. Yeah, it feels kind of weird . There's famously a couple pills . There's famous . It's a bigger Nick fan than me at this point and it's crazy. There's famously a referee. I'm trying to remember the step, but Chris Paul is like, oh twelve against Scott Foster or something. Like every time this one referee has refereed this one player in a playoffs game he has lost similar to every time this one judge judges this one company in a lawsuit, they lose every time and it's like okay, they're a judge. They're supposed to be impartial they're not and every case should be unique but d,amn oh and twelve against this judge this seems kind of like a vendetta at this point have they ever charged any of the refs for like they're famously a ref in the two thousands was busted for betting on games and fixing games. This is that's probably happening more now, right? It's gonna probably start happening way more. Actually in Coffee Zilles not reps, but yeah, players are like doing stuff like this because they were players that were like talking about betting websites? Yeah, there was promotion. There are some who are like, I'm going to go out in the first quarter with like a foot injury. So yeah, bet that I'm that happened in the under there was an NBA player within the last couple years that got banned for life for doing that. He was a very low level player and he would he would yeah he had a discord green ball saying funny. And he would be like, guys, Betty under on my rebounds today. He's like, I'm gonna he's like, I'm gonna check in for thirty seconds and then say my tummy hurts and so bad. That's insane. He put that in writing? Yeah . That's a good coffee zone. In a discord dude, stupid. That's so stupid. So anyway, yeah, we hope for the refs to be just like judges impartial, but they're not. That is interpreted very much based on where you are if you're maybe working I do feel like we should this is going so long already. I feel like we should start moving, but I have one other violation I want to highlight because I'm so proud of my analogy. Okay. Okay, o therekay'.s So a thing called a shot clock violation. Okay. Have you noticed when you're watching basketball David since you're a huge basketball fan now time the team gets the ball , there's twenty four seconds it starts I didn't have to do twenty four but I,'ve seen the clock go around. So there's when you get the ball, when you're on offense, when you're trying to score the ball, you have twenty four seconds to take a shot that at minimum hits the rim , right? That's what resets the shot clock each time. That's what twenty four to twenty four.. No Or if you get your rebound resets it to fourteen. It's getting four seconds every time you have the ball. Every time you pretty much try to hit it. For simplicity, yes. For simplicity, yes. Four if you're ahead so you don't just keep playing keep away. Four seconds? No, no, no, like if you're the team that's winning , then you can't just play keep you can't just hold the ball forever. And if you don't do it, they just give it to the other team. Yes. So that you nailed that. That's what I was about to explain. So if you go twenty four seconds and you don't shoot, then you give the ball to the other team. Okay. You've turned the ball over. Yeah. It's hard to turn over. Oh , right . So my analogy for this that I'm, I think looking through this is my favorite one. Apple has committed has committed a twenty four second violation with Apple intelligence . They said they were going to release it and they took way too long to release it and now they have been forced to hand the ball over to Google Gemini. Wow , that's good. Wow, that is good. Shockwalk violation on Apple because it needs a shockwalk violation . Rockstar. Rocks needs a channel for Rockstar 's committed numerous twenty four second violation. I could do the Rockstar one and our audience would love it. Street hurts David More. There's been at least two comments about my Street Light Manifest. Well, those two people if they made it this far are very upset. Street light manifesto hurts David More. What's the shotslock violation on the road sir? The Tesla shot . Yeah, Tesla has committed a shot clock violation. I think they committed about . I think they committed about five in a row. Yes. Yeah. Okay, I have one question. Yes, at least. So you know, there were a couple instances during this series where the ball was like over the hoop and then a guy knocked it over and he got in trouble for knocking it off. I know why did get you in trouble for that? I know that explained goal tending. Correct. Yes. Yes tending. Is it once the ball is on the trajectory down, you are then not allowed to stop the ball? Yeah. Wow. So when 'cause players could just reach over the net every time they're so dull, I could just jump and knock it up. So you could just Okay, is that considered like a foul type thing? You it counts as a made shot. Breaking the rule. It counts as a made shot. Yeah, yeah. So if a player goes to shoot it and it goes up and starts coming down towards the basket and you reach up and hit it when it's supposed to give it a chance to go to go in . That is a breaking the rules violation . They will count that as a made shot. They'll count that as a shift. Oh, they give them the point. You get the full two point or three points. So you really don't want to commit that violation because you just give them a shift product. So if you hit it out of the way while it's heading towards the apex of the parabola , then that's fine. That's a block. That's cool. Yeah. Similarly, if the ball is NBA specific, bounces off the rim and is still over the rim , like in the cylinder of the rim. Sure. You're not allowed to touch it. Okay. Until it leaves the cylinder. And actually in international basketball, you are allowed to. Which is interesting. That's a weird. It's such a weird discrepancy of how basketball is played around the world. Yeah, that's the EU . Oh my god. That's USBC on iPhones is being able to hit it up . But then sometimes the rules from international come back to the NBA or they have not they have not adjusted . I think it's more like in the EU, there's different power plugs . So like every power plug here in the U . S. we kind of know is basically the two prong or the three prong . And then you go to Europe and it's like, oh, that's kind of still a two prong that's a little different. Like you have a slightly different rule set. Yeah. But it's mostly the same. And there is the same predictable. We're not even really getting into this, but there's robust other forms of basketball in college basketball, international basketball, multiple international leagues around the world . And in many of the leagues, it's played oh so slightly different. Okay. We're mostly doing NBA rules here. Yeah. But NBA rules is where we're saying two goal tending that you speak. Goal tending. Yeah . I don't know if there's a tech equivalent of goaltending. Like the twenty fourth second violation is pretty obvious, but fouls are pretty obvious. But I think goal tending is just another like breaking the rules thing where it's pretty clear the referee can see it you will get sued. Is there anything else small like that that you're not allowed to do? Yeah, there's little things. You're not allowed to kick the ball. If your foot makes contact with the ball, it's a kick b theall violation. You're not allowed to stop dribbling and then start dribbling again or move without dribbling. That's either travel or double dribble. Unless you're OG and OG. Yeah, Dear and Fox got to double dribble right in the middle of a finals game and they didn't call it for some reason. We'll see on the spurs. All right, now you guys understand the game, we'll talk about some lore after the break. We'll be right back. This episode is brought to you by Coca Cola Zero, official partner of the FIFA World Cup twenty twenty six. Coca Cola has also partnered with Panini to bring fans cl oser to the tournament. Selected Coca Cola bottles will feature exclusive Panini Fifa World Cup twenty twenty six stickers under labels. Collect twelve exclusive stickers for the dedicated Coca Cola double p age spread. Pick up a Coca Cola Zero sugar and start collecting. Peel, sip collect. At HSBC UK, when you invest in your business, we're invested too, whether it's borrowing to buy new equipment , to invest in energy saving or in new technology, we cut through the noise with our sector specialists' regional expertise in tailored finance solutions. So if you're looking to grow your business, we lend more than money. To get insights on how UK businesses are borrowing for growth, search HSBC Business Finance. Lending is subject to status, eligibility criteria and T's and Cs apply . Hi, I'm Rob Low, actor, podcaster, but most importantly, American. And this summer, the USFA is going to show y'all how soccer is really done . We're talking tailgate parties , halimef showts Fireworks in the freakin' sky, baby . Now you're all right, Mike. We'll just watch the actual game, thanks. America's gonna America this summer. But one thing's for sure, nobody does football better than us. Poneypower. eighty plus Kloer. All right, welcome back. I think now we've basically covered the rules and violations of the game enough that the last thing we should do is fill you in on some of the lore that got us to this point in the modern NBA . And there's so many things we could talk about, but I think the ones that have the best tech equivalents are the ones that we should give you guys. I'm going to start with one of my favorite, LeBron James. Have you heard of Lebron James? I know that guy. Great. They call him the King. Do you know how old he is? Forty five? He's more or less forty more or less. He's over forty. You nailed it. He is still to this day at forty one , one of the top twenty best players on the planet. I would say crazy . That is crazy. That's because he came in as a rookie in I'm going to get this wrong. two thousand seven. two thousand three. two thousand three. He was drafted first pick of the two thousand three NBA draft. So LeBron James Brake from high school I was from high with the longevity of his career and being one of the best is essentially the iPhone came out a really long time ago, was one of the best and many others competitively have come and gone since then. And maybe at certain peaks could have been considered slightly better than him, but he was always one of the best. And here we are two decades later, still one of the best. A lot of his competition bankrupt , totally gone. LG, HTC, essential , come and gone. I found OK, still around. No , and come back and probably gone again. Blackberry broke. Still blackberries were big. So why didn't he win the championship? So he is, I mean, it's a team sports so you can't win every year by , but he is from an era where when he first came around, there were like these big dynasties of teams of the past. Almost all of the players that were active, actually, sorry, every single player that was active when he was drafted has retired . Okay. Every single one. Has Yao Ming retired? Yeah , he' retsired a long time ago against I love yabbing though. Yeah . And there's and you know, when you look at that time in the past, it was like, oh Blackbray was really big, no key was really big, Samsung was kind of starting to get big. And you look at all the waves of all the things that have happened since then . And now he's part of the modern NBA and the landscape is totally different and he's still one of the best phone. It's kind of insane his longevity. Yeah, okay. Some people call him a goat. There will always be debates about it just like the iPhone, but that is LeBron James' career. Do you want to know a fun fact? Sure. LeBron James has been playing elite level NBA basketball four years longer than the iPhone has existed. That's insane. That's crazy. He's literally more. He literally has been around longer than Taco Tuesday keeping him going. Taco Tuesday Tuesday . Isn't this that like he's played against forty percent of the NBA ever thing? Probably . Yeah . Yeah, yeah. Like forty percent of all NBA players that have ever played these What? Yeah. He's so good. I imagine if he had kids, they'd probably be really good in the NBA. He has one. And he has a second one who maybe will make the NBA. I don't know. Yeah, is there a tech equivalent of that? If like Apple had like a sub brand that spun off and like became crazy app smart phone company. But there's a lot easier to do nothing in CMF. I was thinking nothing in CMF. Yeah. Yeah, but nothing isn't like Lebron level tightened up. We already put who's the CMF phone pro two ? Oh, was that DJ McCall? CJ . There's also like Oppo and Real Me and like Vivo and Yeah, you know, that's a bad analogy. Subbrands are way too easy to make in tech. It's impossible to have a son in the NBA . Is it really? He's done. It's insane. Wait, what about? Hey, Jaylen Bradson. Jaylen Bradson? Sorry, it's impossible to have a son in the NBA that's while you were still in the NBA. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, he was the only one that ever do that. Yeah. I think. LeBron something . No, no, no, no, LeBron playing with his own playing with his NBA in the NBA on the same tip. Through him and Aliube . I was about to say LeBron has thrown in Aliube to his son to his son. In a real NBA game , that's unbelievable. I'll show you the clip after that. It's so cool crazy. Wow. There's also wait, can you turn your computer towards him? There's my favorite NBA photo ever is Lebron recording the All Star Game on like an excellent phone back in the day. That was LeBron. That doesn't even look like him. His rookie ear. That's how long he's been. That's him as a child. Before his facial hair. Yeah . Damn. Yep.. That's great So yeah, good stuff. Okay So if we want to jump more to the current MBA, which is where Lore drop. Yeah, but this is where I get to speak the praises of the New York Nix. Is there any aboutwhere Mike hasn't happened yet. First, is where it starts. I just need, is there any lore about Mike Bibby? I didn't write any down, but something up. Wait, Mike Bibby is awesome. Are you aware of what Mike Bibby's up to these days? Don't be a crypto scammer No, he's like a He retired as like a very like lithe NBA point guard and then randomly just decided to get Mega Jacked. Yeah, he's huge. Dude, wait, wait, wait, whoa or Mike Bibby? The last time you're jacked . The last time I saw Mike Bibby, he was really, really not linked. Look up a picture of Mike Bibby in the current day. He randomly just decided to get like megajacked, dude. Okay, I also need to know about the guy that did the pomphone. Steph Curry. Steph Curry. Yeah, yeah. What about him? I need to just know his lore because I feel like he's l osing he has a tech product. Did I have a bomb curry down? Steph Curry has changed the game, and I do want to think of a good product that has changed the game in the way that Stef Curry is. Let's brainstorm it. So what's a product that existed for a long time and then someone came along and redid it a little bit and completely changed it for the future. Or Apple Silicon is another Apple silicon or electric cars like that. That's the model . Hundai specifically were like hyund ay they're doing decent, but they weren't and then like they kind of make a pivot with their EV's. Yeah, I like Tesla Model S. Okay . For so we had cars for forever. Everybody could make cars. We had a whole competitive landscape, lots of lore, lots of c ars. Somebody comes along and makes an electric car that's actually effective . Because electric car's reputation before wasn't all that. But then the Tesla Model S comes along and then you look at post Tesla Model S, and there's a vibrant landscape of electric cars . Everyone is doing an electric car. Okay. That is Steph Curry Before Steph Curry, there were some threes. There were some teams that had sharp shooters, Pages Dyokovich. You might have heard that name before. some trees, exactly. I'm just saying that because you've said that 's a story . But you look at post stuff curry , entire teams build their entire strategy around multiple people being as good at three point shooting as possible on their game. It is just a different landscape now that he's done that. It's actually it really works with the Tesla thing too because the Tesla model S. I don't know if anyone would ever say like this is the greatest car of all time , but they might say that this is the most influential car of all time. And I think Steph doesn't often get talked about as the greatest basketball player of all time, but I think most hardcore basketball fans would say that he's the most influential basketball player of all of all time. Yes, wow, because he completely, by his mastery of three point shooting, changed how the entire league played. The Nicks don't really focus on Three's . They do . Every single team now shoots way more threes than they did. The Knicks missed almost every three they shoot. Well, the good thing was that the Knicks were adaptable, but they did they set a lot of team three point records. They set some playoff three point records in the earlier rounds and stuff. They shot a lot of threes this year. The Spurs set a first half, three point record in the game that they lost to the next because they stopped making three. Oh back because they're chokers and like one or two players that can shoot three's . So you would have like a whole team of people that just played regularly and then one guy that shot his threes. Okay. And now it's like the whole team is built around people that can shoot three. Okay. And even another thing that's interesting about this is that now gets you to a lot of the comparisons between old NBA and new NBA where it almost feels like a totally different sport . Like when you look at cars today and how crazy they are versus like the record setting cars of the past were go aded for their time . But it's hard to compare them with modern cars. Because they're so different. Exactly. That's kind of what like the record books look like today. Like you've heard of Michael Jordan. A lot of people consider him the greatest player of all time. He didn't shoot threes, like very much and wasn't very good at them . And so a lot of people would argue if you put Michael Jordan in today's NBA, he wouldn't be one of the best players. A lot of other people argue well he was he was all mental. He would have figured out a way to be. What was he good at specifically? He did add three to his bag late in his career. Very, very late. Not like modern MB. Yeah, actually . For the second three peat, he was a much better three point shooter. Michael Jordan was freakishly athletic and basically made every two pointer he looked at. Okay . And was also the most psychotically driven athlete of all time, probably . He like famously would make up narratives against him. Steve Jobs. Yeah, yeah, sort of he is sort of Steve Jobs because he would be like , he would be like this guy said that I'm trash and that he can guard me and whatever. And it would be like one passing comment that a guy had made five years prior that was like, yeah, I think I could try to guard Michael Jordan. He thinks he can stop me. He thinks he can stop me and he can't. So he would just create motivational energy for himself. Like there's if you watch the documentary The Last Dance , they talk about this a lot. With Michael Jordan making up fake narratives against him self that personally. Yeah, yeah, literally the meme and I took that person Michael Jordan meme? Yes. Okay. That was just him all the time . Okay, okay, okay. Now he owns a NASCAR team, right? Yeah, his post NBA careers a whole lot. He owned a basketball team at one point too. He owned the hornets for a minute. , who's real bad at that? No protest gamned as far as we know. He sells sneakers. I do think Steve Bill is a really good 'cause a lot of the upside is like Savant, possibly the goat , nobody could do what he did, but also some of his mix were kind of insane. Yeah. And maybe this is like post career Michael Jordan, but like one of the worst owners probably because he's bad at judging talent. He's just like, hey, why can't you jump over the other guy like I did? Like just be better. So he's a bad. Oh, it sounds like stupid jobs to me. Yeah , honestly. I know this is physically impossible, but just do it. Like just be better, like be better. Yeah. And that's what MJ asked if everyone around him. Wow at all times. And that's why teammates did not love him. They talk about him now with reverence because they want to get championships, but they hated playing with him. That's like these . Yeah. So I have another one I want to make analogy a technology. I don't have this fully fleshed out, but that's one right here. We were trying to figure this out and we wanted your opinion. Okay. I want to try something. Yeah. Okay . The goal is to ship products as many products as possible. Sure. There are record books for the most products anyone has ever shipped in a single bay AKA the most points any player has ever scored in a single game. Okay, yeah. Didn't we talk about this on the pod? I think we did. Because okay , famously , you know, NBA teams today are scoring roughly one hundred to one hundred and twenty points a game. I was going to ask if that's gone up over time. Yeah , up with the three point revolution and higher gara, et cetera. The most points any one player has ever scored in a single game was back in the day this man named Wilt Chamberlain scored one hundred points by himself in a single game. Against against the next yeah against the next there's a lot of a lot of lore around this because one there's no video of this, but there is tons of eyewitness accounts and radio and it definitely happened. It's just a bit of a mythological performance. And there's a little bit of conspiracy about fudging the score keeping. They get them to one hundred, but yeah. But the idea is this was one of the most dominant players of all time , but it's the nineteen sixties . So what equivalent it's kind of like in tech it would be like the fastest car of that time. It'd be like Jesse Owens or something and you're like, that's not tech, but that's like a different sport but the fastest thing of that time, the fastest computer of that time was so much faster than every other computer. It's like, wow, that clearly is record beating and cetera, et cetera. What a computer the size of a house with one megabyte of round. Let's say the first time they hit one gigahertz yeah, I think the US government put like a sanction on like an export sanction on the first computer that hit one gigahertz 'cause they were so scared of it like going to China or whatever. That sounds about like Will Chamberlain sounds like mythos right now. That's basically Yeah, nobody has gotten anywhere near one hundred points in a game. And if you look at the record books, most of the top fifty performances for most points ever in a game are also Wilt Chamberlain . He also had like seventy something. He had a season where he averaged over fifty. Yes, which is impossible in today's NBA . So it's really is like this record book is like filled with this one guy from the sixties And today , this year, there was a player who got eighty three . Woah, which is the second most anyone has ever in a game. And it's the closest anyone's gotten in a while . And so it was technically a legendary performance , but it was just by this one guy that really No, it's a guy who doesn't really have any other records. You might not even heard of him. His name is Bam. Ardio. You've said that we talked about it. I think we did it excited. Waining that in tech terms as a segment one. Right. And so we explained it as if it was like I forget what we said, but it would be like if the if the LG Wing shipped like fifty million phones or something. It's just like this crazy you're like, well, this doesn't seem right, but I guess it is record breaking. So congrats. Yeah, it was it was an anomaly. And his team, once he got to like sixty five, seventy, seventy five was like just keep giving the ball. We got to try to get this record and that was the closest anyone's ever gotten. Was the other team trying to stop him at that point or were they just kind of so anytime anyone is near setting a record, everyone is trying to stop you from setting the record against you because you also got a little bit of help from the referees. He shot about forty free throws in that game. What? Yeah, yeah, that's crazy. They're free. Take them with if you get fouled a lot, you got to make the free throw. Yeah. You don't just get I think he made about thirty free throws on his way to eighty three points. So yeah, it's hard to come up with a tech analogy for that, but the third most points of all time was Kobe . eighty one. Another legend, everybody respects eighty eight one. Wow. So game. In one single game for a lot, which is crazy. There's a lot of career highs right around the seventy mark , but those are the legendary iconic performances. Wilt, bam, Kobe. What was Kobe specifically good at that made him so legendary? Kobe was Jordan. He was like a Michael Jordan clone with all the sliders set to like ninety percent. Okay ninety six percent. Yeah , depending on the day. ninety to ninety six percent, depending on the day. But he basically modeled his entire game personality everything after Jordan. Okay. Is there a Steve Jobs equivalent to that? Is there like a ninety six percent Steve Jobs like also, a psycho but just a little bit less Saint Altman. Like in the current era . Say Alton. Really? Okay. I mean, I don't know, but I mean, who else is like ruthless? Like I think Sam Alt M'alst prettyon ruthless because he just lies about everything . But also like gets to the point of like everyone outside in Sierra Savant and sees all of the massive challenges. Anyone thinks that Saint Multi Variant. Because Kobe has a much better basketball reputation than Sam Altman has a technique. Yeah, I would say so too. So yeah, maybe like I guess I guess we don't really know until Sam Altman's done though because the same thing with Steve Jobs where was like people at the time like didn't necessarily love working with them but, now we'll idolize that. What about like Linus Torvald That's a little more niche, but yeah, like very positive reputation. Yeah, generally, but he's like can be mean. I think the Michael Jordan Steve Jobson is perfect because in the moment he was like levitating . Like everybody understood that what this guy was doing was only something he could do . And then it would come out to people who know more ball and were like, it's kind of hard to work with this guy , but he will ruthlessly get you across the finish line because he's a psycho right. And you're like, all right, yep, it worked. So it's like a CEO that they pull in when the current CEO's not working just to like get you across the finish line . Maybe. I don't know if that's a tech thing. Yeah , like sometimes like a an interim CEO. Yeah, it's like interns. Oh, interesting. Yeah, but yeah, I don't know if there's a Kobe equivalent in I don't know if there is but okay. That was what Kobe was. So if you if you could find a tech CEO that's like ninety to ninety five percent. Happy bad one. Yeah . Elon . Oh , maybe old Elon. Yeah. Yeah, that's almost as new Elon is not it's kind of even hard to compare winning in the way that Steve Jobs. Right. Like he's winning it a different way. twenty fifteen Elon with Tesla maybe. Just Tesla Elon, maybe is Kobe. When people kind of saw him as a safe time. Interesting. Okay, what's the next legend ? I was going to talk about the current New York Knicks real quick. I think I have a pretty good analogy that matches up actually with exactly with a tech thing. Okay, right. Okay. So let's wrap up talk about the best and worst team s of each conference right now, right? So we'll talk about the New York Nix first. I think I'm uniquely qualified to talk about this . Let's go Nick s in five . Let's talk about Apple Silicon. Okay, right ? Apple Silicon comes out in twenty twenty. Yeah . Apple decides to put everything in their own hands. They're gonna make their own system on a chip. They're not going to rely on intel anymore, right? Yeah. Entire system on a chip. It works with Apple hardware , and then all of a sudden , now it has completely redefined what computers are capable of, honestly. Like not to praise Apple too much and get a cube of true though, it's true. It is true. It removed all the fragmentation, made everything they are designing their entire system from the ground up. Yeah . Another thing that happened in twenty twenty , the New York Nicks could have kind of a different way. hired Leon Rose to be their president of basketball operations, right? Okay . So while they were way worse than Apple in years prior to that , and way worse than Intel Max because Intel Max were still good computers. The Nicks were not a good bathroom. The I nine one was kind of Yeah, I guess kind of like right before the Nicks hired Leon, they were like the butterfly keyboard I nine putting in the in the freezer to cool it kind of not great. Yeah , so they were not doing great. Things were fragmented, things were not working well. Sure. They hired Leon Rose and he made his mission to build a cohesive team like an M chip . Okay . He prioritized first team teammates that play for each other, guys that are interested in working together, being collaborative friendship. The power of friendship. Wow with Jayalen Brunson, Michael Bridges, Josh Hart, college teammates, all that. So they were college teammates. They were college. I already knew this but I'm just for the audience. Yes, they were college teams. Wow. Well college. UC Santa Cruz? No . Villanova. Villanova. Where the heck is that? Vanova Nicks? Philly? Philly? Okay. It's a pretty big school. You know, it's a very big school. I'm from California. All right, well, anyway, so theick Kns make it back to the playoffs in twenty twenty one for the first time in almost a decade. They signed Jail and Brunson in twenty twenty two, eventually brings in a ton of cohesive players, builds them around Jail and Brunson and makes a perfect team that plays for each other and wins through the power of friendship, much like Apple System on a chip. So there's a different guy that does the team organizations that's not the coach. Yes. He's called the president of basketball operations. The PBS manager. There's also a general manager . In basketball, it depends on how you want your team to run. Some teams their highest guys, the general manager. Other teams they go, well, we want someone above the general manager. So we'll have theident P ofresk Betasball operations and a General Manager and whatever . The Knicks have a general manager also basically yeah. The next have president of basketball operations sounds like a title you make up as a six year old when they ask you what you want to do . I the want to be president of the Knicks someday. Yeah, that's me. But anyway, now the New York Knicks are NBA champions before Joell MB has ever made a conference finals. So they all played basketball together in college. Not all the nicknames, but three of them. Three of the starting five. That's pretty storybook. Yeah, it is. That's pretty cool. Yeah. I like that. That makes him the best team in the East. The best team in the West was the San Antonio team. Boo worst team in the East gangs. The Wash Wizards definitely was ten wizards. Oh, was they? In the East in the East. In the Eastast in the E. And the worst team in the West was the Sacramento King. Not really . I don't know if that was actually true, but they were pretty bad this time. They could have been there. We picked it. No, they were when I was there in December, they shot the laser, which they only do when they win. The beam. They call it the game games. They were tied for the worst way with the Utah Jazz. Yeah. The jazz wasn't Michael Jordan on the jazz? No, no, he famously stole their soul year after year on the wizards. But yeah, the wizards were the blues . Okay . Also, I will say that there's probably a tech equivalent to this . The san Pacers . Okay , the Pacers were the best team in the East last season . They lost one player and were now the second worst team in the entire sounds like the devils' the last couple of years. And then we didn't play our player got his name hand cut at dinner and then we just fell apart. How did you cut his clothes? He leaned on a piece of did he mistake his snake for a hand or his hand for a steak? No , it was a steak house, but it absolutely destroyed our team. And Golden State did pretty bad this year. Is it like equivalent to being one of the biggest most successful companies losing a single person and then being one of the worst. Steve Jobs when he left Apple and then they basically tanked and then they brought him back. All right, Tyries Halliburton. We heard it here first. And then Haliburton come back and hopefully they'll be better, I guess. The Nicks need a little bit of competition next year so I would, love if the pacers could come back better because the rest of these doesn't they're essentially the same exact team minus. Why do you want them to have a competition? Because it's more fun. Honestly, it felt too easy this year. Actually perfect. Perfect place to end this. Perfect place to end this. Okay. The playoffs next year . We've been using this entire podcast to try to explain sports specifically NBA basketball in tech terms . And I think the number one overlap, the most obvious similarity between the two is fanboyisms . In sports , you pick a team and you ride or die with this team , rationality be damned. Right. They might be the best team. You get to cheer for them. They might be one of the best teams. You call them the best team. They might be kind of mid. You call them the best team, but as soon as they start to get a little bit bad, you ruthlessly rag on them until you get them back good again. But you're mean to your guys own.'re If mean you to your own guys , we got to get them better. This is and unacceptable. They have to be the best. They have to be the best. Okay. Nick fans famously during bad years will boo their own team. Yeah. To tell to tell them that they sucked. To tell them that they suck . You know, it's the same thing in tech where I mean the fanboyisms of like iPhone versus Android, of like all these different companies Max versus PCs, like this is a tale as old as time. I feel like it's even similar in the sense of like in tech , let's say like the R Android subreddit is the same because it's so many different company fanboys in one place where if you went to the Google subreddit, they would be like, I can't believe Google's screwing us again. I can't believe it's only one hundred billion . But then in the Android subreddit, if someone says something bad about Google, that same person who's like, how dare you ? You are the best. You are terrible . I don't care. What's your problem? You're an idiot. And that is a one to one perfect replica of what happens in sports. Okay. So it's like, I'm allowed to say that. You're not allowed to say . I'm allowed to say that my team. You can't say that about my team. And your team is even worse. They're not allowed to like your team. You're an exactly. You're an idiot for your team. That's a Nick fans were told for years. Yeah. Okay. So I would like to give you guys an opportunity to pick an NB A team now to ride or die with and to defend them and to live with them the exact same way so death to you part. For a technology wait until I feel like you should just root for wherever you live . So that's the easy version of this. We're also conveniently located in a desert where there used to be an NBA team, RIP, New Jersey Nets . You can pick the New York team. You will just warning you to New York. Just warning you, you will get accused of bandwagon. That's okay. That's okay. If you watched for fifteen days before they won, I've taken David the past. Many people do. And the people who are already fans will give you a pass, but the people who are not fans will call you bandwagon. There were some very dark years as a Nick fan. Yeah. So we're in a high. We're pasta. We're past that. We'll never go back there again. As long as you like sort of pick a new team later, right? Yeah, it's like he can just move and get a new team. Later on. David's from Brooklyn, so you should be with the next No . The Netherlands that's true. That's not you. You live in Brooklyn. You live in Brook lyn. So if you want to know it doesn't matter closer to Queens to be honest. Dude, the nets, the nets aren't a real team. You don't need to root for them. I have similar so this is the thing. I grew up in New Jersey and when I first started watching NBA basketball, coincidentally, the New Jersey Nets were an incredible team. I remember I went to this basketball camp randomly as a kid and got to meet some of the players. I remember Bald Richard Jefferson, prime Richard Jefferson comes over and like rustles my hair and it's like, What's up kid? And I'm like, Oh my god, Richard Jefferson . Like that moment I will have forever Kenyan Martin, Kerry Kiddles, Jason Kid, like this team got to meet all night. This was a team that went to the finals I remember incredible team . They have not been the same since. They have thus moved to Brooklyn and have been one of the stinkers who've been tanking and just hor rible to watch. Yeah. That's what happened. A lot of people that moved to Brooklyn. Come a real stinker. I come from , you know, that's the team I used to root for, but I'm not a diehard. They left me. I don't have a team anymore. So I kind of just replaced you know what's hilarious about the whole situation. Maybe there's a tech analogy here. JZ was a five percent stockholder or whatever in the Nets . They do this whole thing to move to Brooklyn for JZ because they're like, yo, we're moving with Hoef, we're moving to Brooklyn, whatever. JZ like one year after they move, starts a sports agency and has to immediately divest from the company. Damn, leaves them hot and dry and now he's back to like jerk for the Knicks again. So okay, here's the thing. I feel like you should for life have to cheer for like the closest team to where you were born . Okay. The problem with that for me specifically is that the kings have not won since nineteen fifty one. Yeah, they're bad. And they were called a different name. This is the royals back then. Yeah, yeah. This is your opportunity to get on your knicks like this is the feeling that Nick's fans have had for fifty years all my life , which is they've been bad for your entire conscious lifetime and they're finally good. David plant your flag right now. You can plant your king's flag now. No, no, not your king's flag . If you know if I mean you can have the Mike Bibiob Bble . If they do win, then I have like some baby bobble head s. That's true. That's a more credible, deeply rooted, like you could celebrate with tears if the kings win. I'll give you this also . People are less mad if you have two teams you really like when they're in different conference. Yeah. So if you have a if you have like if you're like the Nicks are my eastern conference team and the kings are my wife can do that . That's all. It's a flag. I've kind of always had like a Western conference team that I like. Which is the Spurs? Oh, I mean, it's varied . No, absolutely not. Yeah. It's actually varied for me, but like for a long time I liked the Sonic when Ray Allen was there. Where's that Seattle no longer there anymore and hopefully we'll be coming back in the next couple of years. But then I liked when Tracy McGrady was on the Houston Rockets with Yao Ming. I was a So you're doing what I do much is like , I follow a player for a while that I really like And when they're a West Coast team, it's tough because I can't watch many games 'cause they start other games away. See, I like that because I'm a night owl. So I like having a west coast team that I messed with like one AM. So I was I've been a Chris Paul fan for basically his entire prime and he's bounced around a bunch of west coast teams and all of those teams have had heartbreaking disastrous losses by the way. So it's been tough . But I'm trying to watch more East Coast because I also don't really have a Western conference team right now because that was always a coping mechanism for me when the Kicks were terrible. It was like, oh, what other team can I like just while the knicks are terrible? What is your what are your so I was going to kind of bring that up. So yeah, I feel like I have to be a Knicks fan one because Alex then reached for the Devils with me when he watches hockey and he's so I have so many friends that are Nick fans watching them throughout this was very funny. I mean in game four when they were down, my friend was like , that's it. We lost the series. We were losing too far and I was like, that's the Nix fans I know. They were already out of like here . They're gonna win because that's the dejective nature that I'm used to. Yeah. But then I was going to say in basketball , you know, working with Marques for Song, I've never seen a sport where people follow players as much rather than teams. So Darius Garland, who does he play for? He now plays for the Clippers. I'm a clippers fan. Okay. That's my West Coast there. There is growth in all the way. The reason for that, by the way , this well, maybe maybe we can write this back. NBA players are more marketable. They're marketable because you see their face all the time. A hundred percent. And then also an NBA player sing,le a NBA player can influence the entire fate of a team more than a single player in any other sport. It's like any other team sport. It's like if you were a quarterback that didn't have to follow and you can see their focus on team sporting. But even a quarterback with a bad offensive line, still a bad team. Yeah, but it's still like they're still the guy. Yeah, like, it's hard to be the guy in a lot of things unless you're contracting. I have a question I should have asked earlier but is related to the players . What exactly does it mean to be a free agent? Yeah. So basically the way that basketball works is you sign actually this this relates We never really talk about this. Contract employees in tech, right? Companies. A lot of tech companies have contract employees. Yeah. All of all of basketball contracts. They have no competes. Yeah. They have non competition. Non compete until they become a free agent at which point they can sign with whatever team they want. So they have to stay with one team and for the length of their contract. So if tech could trade that would be crazy , so kind of do . They kind of do, but in a different way. Tech actually tech is kind of like Premier League soccer because they allow buyouts. Premier League soccer I'm learning about this. I'm learning a new sport . It's kind of you can pay a transfer fee. So if you see a player on another team that you really like, you be like, Hey, I want Erling Holland or whatever who's player on Manchester City.. And but he's really good So the team doesn't want to give him up. So they say, fine, if you want to even negotiate with him, you have to pay us two hundred million dollars. And then the team might be like, okay, here's two hundred million and we're going to also negotiate a contract with him to pay him Oh my gosh. Hundreds of millions of dollars. Holy crap. So but that's kind of like tech where you can have people get buyouts and whatever. There's a certain number of years that have to go by before you become a free agent . It varies by contract. Negotiated , just based on your contract. So typically a three, four, five year contract. Long contract. Yeah. Once you get ten years of max contract, thank you like mix agents. Okay. Okay. So when you first start out of college, you are automatically in a contract and then after that you're a free agent. Yeah. So how do you start as a free agent when you're right at college? You get and then you sign maybe a rookie contract for that one year with that team. Okay . Then you maybe have your free agent again, you might sign another one or two year contract again. As you get to your prime and your more desirable teams want to lock you down for longer, you might sign a three four, five year contract you're there for a long time. But once that contract ends again, you're technically free agent . But then teams can also arbitrarily decide to trade you. Got it. And be like, oh, actually, you're not as good as we thought. So we're gonna trade you to another team. You have to go live where they want you to live. Yeah. Yeah. Players don't like it. I don't like that either. Yeah, yeah. But I mean, they're making millions of dollars to do it. So they okay. Well, I feel like I know ball now. Yeah. I think this is a great place to wrap it up . Ideally now when we do our smartphone awards at the end of the year, we can have like a sports equivalent like you guys will note like when I give an MVP award to a phone , you'll now have that much more lore and context the Jailen Brunson award s. We call it the J Bayrlenonson Memorial smartphone at the year this year? He didn't know more . Memorializing his season . He'll now yeah, you'll now be able to draw the equivalent. You'll be like, I can see how that phone is Jalen Brunson. The JVP, the Jayalen, Jaylen P. Jayalen Bronson valuable player. Yeah. There's a million more strings that we didn't tie in this episode. I'm sure the comments section will help us out with that. There's many more crossover things between tech and sports. But what do you think the percentages of usual waveform listeners made at this point in the episode? I think we'll find out because zero zero zero I know that if you made it this far , comment , Nick's in six . Nixon five. That's how we'll know because all right now everyone say next and then but then everyone comes into be like, oh, wait for talking about basketball. Look at the comes to be like, they obviously didn't do a very good job. Wait, what did he do Nixon four? That's like another cut because they did four in every episode. Nixon four. So we say Nixon four.