Writing Dear Bishop for His Son

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What happened The scary part is I had somebody following me and taking pictures, and then that's when the blackmail happened. So it became much easier for me to take more pills to not have to look that direction. Was it Ausing painkiller drugs? Every day, I was taking Xanax during breakfast, lunch and dinner. Meeting Jordan, getting married, having a kid, all of those things change you. But you were on celebrity traaders. Yes. And what I understand is that you literally received death threats What I would say is that is fifteen versions of M ago. These blatant lies have to stop. Would you do another reality TV show? Before we begin, hit follow and tap the bell icon. It allows us to continue bringing you this show that we all love We can go anywhere in the world right now. I'm in LA and we'll bring you the most phenomenal guest And the only thing it costs you is to hit follow up and tap the bell icon This is where I want to go back to So your parents, what I understand is they were both athletes. Yeah I always jokeed that I was bred not born. Like my parents knew what they were doing when they got together. Like my mom was an all American volleyball player. my dad was an all American football player And my brother and I were both full scholarship football players So like we always look at we' like like we were built for this. like this was literally literally like they didn't even they never saved for college education because it was assumed we were going to be on scholarships. Really? Yeah, fromom a young age. And it's just, you know, like I remember my dad, my sophomore or high school is like, I'll buy you your car because like We don't have any money for your scholarship. Like if you're going to go to college, you have to like you have to get that scholarship and figure it out perks of it too, right? Like I was always in a sport But they never saved up for our college because it was sort of like an understanding. It was assumed. Yeah. know So over the course of this conversation, I'll have a few surprises for you. Okay. All right. so I want to show you my first one. Okay. All right. because I was looking at this. So this is on this topic is Tell me what's happening in this photo right here. You remember? Yes, I do. Okay. So this photo is, oh gosh, I don't have my teeth either I think it just feill out Either that or it was one of those u my dad took the string and tied it to to the door and shut the door and pulled it out because I hated pulling my own teeth. I had to have him do all of them almost But anyway, this is at the homecoming parade. I was in we call it JFL Junior footall Lague. I was in the JFL and we were riding on a float in the parade go So much fun. There you go. So that was your team. That was my team My JFL team. and then we were yeah in the small town, we had a float for homecoming. And that was I was on on like the hay Bales on the float. On the float. Yeah. Now Now were you were you all champions at this level? No, God, no. No I didn't like I didn't really develop into a good athlete until my sophomore year of high school. Really? Yeah. Yeah. I was always the chunkier, uncoordinated, goofy, awkward kid This is interesting. Yeah. So now the reason why this is so interesting to me is because so I was playing football. at that age. Yeah. And football was my entire life. American football. Yep. We have to say American footb I know I know. You know, I feel weird Hving in LA, I know. But American football, Yeah.. So I was obsessed with it I would watch it all the time. I would I lived and breathed it. And what I distinctly remember is that best player on our team was the quarterback Who was the coach's son? Right And I remember that there were a few players so I grew up in New York And there were a few players who were U their dads play for the jets. Yep. and they were exceptional. Right. And so we're all all so there was this competition between them. Yeah. Now your dad was all American. Football player. Yeah. But you're saying that you were not that great No, my dad was my coach too. and was your coach in for our JFL team, but I was never treated like the coach's son. If anything, it was the opposite. likeike I think I tried to quit every week. D you? Yeah, I just was like frustrated and I was never the best player by far, You know, even as far as talent goes, my entire career, I was never the most talented player. I was always just somebody who worked really hard And like, you know, studied the game and knew where my like strengths were, knew where my weaknesses were Um But at that level I just, you know, I remember I used to have to duct tape my pants becausecause like the strings and the belts wouldn't it just was like I was a big hefty awkward goofy kid. How does that feel? knowing that you're probably assumed to be super talented like your dad, but it's not showing up for you. Yeah. I think that's like that was where like the push pull of like me trying to quit every week is because I would be so frustrated of like, why am I not good You know, and I think, you know, he as a coach would always try to push me perform better and to work harder and to just push myself U But it just how young I was, it just I remember it always being so frustrating. and then all of a sudden And high school just clicked. And I grew three or four inches. My body started I started feeling more comfortable in my body Um, It was also confusing too because I remember like physically Everything started to click But then as I was going through puberty I just was like, oh my gosh, like that was when I had my realization of myself that like I'm gay. So like everything on the field was clicking. And I was like You know Breaking records my sophomore year junior of high school and then like finally performing at the level that everybody sort of expected, you know me for my parents to perform at But then I was like internally, was like really just not in a good place you know It's so interesting that you began to outperform as you went through pberty Yeah. But at the same time, you're realizing you're gay. Yeah, right, which you're in the Midwest This is what year is this to? This is two thousand six to twenty ten was my high school career. Okay, so two what I distinctly remember is that same sex marriage wasn't even It wasn't even talked about no at that time. Eespecially in Illinois. Y. So from a representation standpoint Was there any type of gay or queer representation that you could at look up to Look up to no. we had one gate kid in our entire town. Okay, kid. Okaykay. And he was sort of the The joke like everybody, even our coaching staff and O players, it was sort of you didn't want to be that You didn't want to be called that. And people were when they did things that were softer Bad So I just that that was always something that just stuck with me Like that poor kid's name is like etched into my soul forever just as far as like, you know coaches and people using his name of like, don't be a, you know, you're taking it up the ass. that was sort of like words used in You know, you're like this of a human being still being formed and still learning things. and all of a sudden you put your like coaches on a pedestal and then they're speaking to you like that. It's just it was like really jarring But I didn't grow up in a town that had a lot of representation. You know, there was like, you know, like I said, one and there was only a handful of black kids in my town So You know, there were times that I was faceding. I didn't really have like you know diverse group of friends until I got to college So like that's, you know, that's where like for me. thingsings really started, you know coming together was once I had college. Did you college, fair, yeah, fair. So then in in high school, is so your parents did they split up? They split up onnce I was in college, in college. Yeah. they stayed together through both my brother and I in high school. High school. Okay. What I know from the relationship space is that many couples know years prior to them breaking up or getting a divorce that It's not working. Yeah. There's arguments. there's friction. And then oftentimes the kids know And the kids often place blame on themselves When mom and dad are arguing sometimes they say themselves, you know, it's because of me, right Were you aware? of any turmoil between your parents when you were at that age. No. And in fact, I actually took the opposite approach where I didn I didn't say like, oh, this might be because of me I sort of blame them and you know, I was like, how dare you sort of practice? Like I said, I grew up in the Catholic church. like divorce wasn't really a thing You didn't do that, right? Like that that wasn't That wasn't something we spoke about. So I just thought like, how dare you guys sort of always preach to me finish what I start in my life. You never let me quit a sports team. You never let me quit anything in my life and then all of a sudden you' just going gonna quit your marriage. So for me, I never took any type of blame in that It more so humanized my parents for me. I always sort of put them on this pedestal of like these elite athletes, these great parents, be and they are. they're fabulous. I just remember vividly when they got a divorce It just shifted like the just everything sort of changed in my head of like, oh These are human beings too. They don't have it all figured out. They're going through a hard time. And they, you know, like they've sort of fallen from their pedestal And My relationship with them changed bothoth in a very cool way, but it's just it's a much different relationship now. than what it used to be when, you know, they were my parents and married And like now we're both I'm friends with both my parents individually. My dad's remarried. My mom's single, She's an overshare. It's TMI all the time, But like I love that about her. it's like it's such a fun relationship now with both of them. Yes. All right, which is good. Yeah. the So the impact, it sounds like what you're saying was It was it was her hurtful you were you were in pain the moment but it ended up being positive impact you. Yeah I think it relationship evolved with your parents. Yeah, I think it just it taught me how to what I don't want out of a relationship Like I think, you know, there were so many good and great parts of them as a as my mom and dad and then also just as like in their relationship that I got to witness But then at the end to It really sort of took a lot of notes of like, okay, like this is not how I want you things to go down. So I would rather have be a straight shooter and have open and honest and hard conversations throughout my relationship. So that I never have to like let them like fester and become this big thing. Yeah, which I think like that's what I saw happen. Yeah. No, and it's a great lesson. It's great that you were aware Yeah to pull that away. T. So then right before that being in high school, I'm curious about this is C Do you believe you were trying to impress more Y coaches teammates Dad or yourself I would say my coaches and my teammates are my coaches and my dad Like my teammates were maybe like up there too, but I more so is doing it because like those Those were like the people from such a young age that' sort of always where the people that I needed to perform for I were like That was just sort of like the structure and the hierarchy that I grew up in in sports culture. These are the people you're supposed to make happy These are the people you're supposed to perform for and like You have to make them look good. so like you have to go do your thing and like shut up and just take part in it Um, So I would definitely say You know, and like now like looking back on it, I spent more time with my coaches. you know, I was lucky to have my dad as my coach too, but like most kids spend more time with their coaches than they do their parents growing up. just at sports practice. So like that's like the That's something I try to remind a lot of coaches, especially youth coaches that have They have a responsibility in front of these kids to watch what they're saying because oftentimes you have a bigger impact on that kid's life than their parents do And I just remember that so vividly of all of all of the coaches in my life at some point saying something homophobic And and sort of saying it with this like, matter of fact tone Always it was always a negative connotation So it was like only when somebody messed up, only when somebody looked like a fool, onlyn when somebody looked weak is when they would say something along the lines of, you know being gay And that was just like so I just remember for me, I was like it just like People talk about being like shoved into the closet. I just like have this like feeling of like just being pressed like down into myself. He was Roth. you know, Colton, I have to ask wasas your father? One of those people. Oh, yeah, I was I mean, that's the thing too is like I'm just as much at times to blame too. like I was at a certain point in my career, I was a captain of these teams and You know, at times, I let it go and participated in the locker room banter just because I wanted to blend in. I wanted to fit in Um So yeah. I mean, I think like that's, you know It sounds terrible, but like that's like part of sports culture right now And it's sort of like one of the last frontiers it's going to take to like sort of get over that hump is trying to figure out how to handle it. just because You know, I just remember I was like, I can't really take a stance here because if I do, then it opens me up for questioning and then I Once they ask why I'm defending this, I don't have a girlfriend to back up the fact that I'm not gay. So like I just didn't want to I didn't want to open myself up to that critique Did you perform in other ways outside of the locker room to try to continue to cover Oh yeah, you did. okay. I had a folder of I had a folder of boobs on my phone just because that was like a common locker room thing of like sort of the guys peacocking and showing who they're dating and seeing like, look at what this girl said? like I had no clue where I got them from, like the internet somewhere And they weren't like real, anything. But like I just always remember if anybody asked me I always had that to go to just to cover. like That's that I think was one of the more challenging parts about being in the closet is just like the sort of the spider webs of lies that you sort of build in deceit and not only from Everybody that is in your life, but from yourself too, because you sort of like lose yourself in it I' just like You know, there were so many defense mechanisms that I had that I put up. But now how did you handle done. relationships because By the time you're what seventeen years old, you're capaptain of the football team You're outperforming, good looking guy over six feet Blonde hair. What color are your eyes el. they kind of look pil the light the light, right? You got haazel eyes, right? You are Consider the quintessential all American Boy So How did you handle women poorly. I mean, And I think like, you know, sadly just everything you describe is like why they end up probably making me the Bachelor is like It was sort of like you know, I think even my college football coach called me like the poster boy of our football program. Like he was was like, this is everything you want. like because I didn't date and I intentionally just wanted to you know, spend time with my sport and training and education. Like those were like the main things that I sort of hid behind in a way But u It was really confusing for me because On one hand I knew I was gay But on the other hand you know, I was still a member of, you know, at that time, FCA Fellllowship of Christian athletes I was still going to Bible study. I was still really trying Pray to God to like help me out. takeake this off my plate You know, and it's just like I'm a big believer and I still am a man of God and I still am a man of faith and I'm a big believer that He works through us and these just really cool ways And so I got that confused with, oh When you became the bachelor, that's him working for like helping you out become to become straight. You know, so so so then are are you saying that that you were asking God to H I just wanted him to like make me straight. I didn't want to be gay byy any means, like I just I just knew that for me, like the path of sports faith wanted to be a dad. Being gay was a much harder path to go down than just trying to figure out how I can live my life as a straight man Um knowing now like that's that was It's ridiculous to like keep saying bel like it. That was it was truly a way of like conversion therapy for myself I have to like keep doing this because it will make me straighter So I'm sure you've heard of internalized homophobia. Yeah. Okaykay So When I look at internalized homophobia, I often think that I think many people think, okay, it's a one incident thing. Yeah. but in actuality, it's chronic stress Yeah living with it and chronic stress does all kinds of things to you Um . all kinds of terrible things to you, totally. So What were you feeling at this period of your life? eighteen, nineteen How are you dealing the levels of stress. that you were going through I mean, I just like I remember I would lock myself in my room and I would watch Ellen truly like Ellen was my therapy at times just because not only just of her story, But just like she just always had like a happiness to her show Right? Like to like just people she had on and like her little bits and all of that. Yeah. So like It sounds so silly, but like that was definitely a way. staying rooted and grounded with my family Like just, I was thirty five minutes my car. I went to Illinois state It was thirty five minutes away from my family house and so I would drive back on some weekends and go fish Just being in nature. I always like found a way to just distract myself and like dive, throw my identity into something else. becausecause if my identity was in something other than myself, I didn't have to sort of look myself in the mirror you know, identify as a gay man So I was always trying to you know, throw my full identity into whatever I was doing. Okay, fair enough. Do you ever try to then continue the facade by dating women at that time. Yeah, I would go I would go on dates. I wanted to be seen just enough so people couldn't question me So that was always something is like, you know There was like a few in college, I think two or three girls that I li to and would be seen with every once in a while just to like keep the pressure off. But like I just remember in college, I would never let my college friends talk to my high school friends and I would never let my high school friends talk to my college friends. because I would, you know, I would tell all of my college buddies I'm dating a girl back home or I'm seeing somebody there. And then at home it'd be like I'm seeing somebody in college, sorry. So I just never wanted them to cross reference each other and be like This is not adding up I see it So it was hard because then I can't really have a, you know, full friendships and relationships with my friends. because like they never really got to You know, see all of me. Yes, yes. And you haven't told your parents at this point. No. You haven't told your brother? No, R. And I would imagine you and your brother were close Yeah, we were very close. And and we played against each other in football. I mean, he was one of the very I think he was the He was the second person I told But in my family. In your family. Yeah. Yeahah. but at that time, he didn't know. No Okay didid anyone At that time? No. No, I never I was very careful for, you know, even when I was physically experimenting with guys and trying to like figure myself out I would never I was so careful on how I did everything. Okay. can you walk me through that being careful? because what What I feel when we are telling this story. is I feel Sadness. Yeah becausecause well it gets sadder. mine Carefulness, the only way that I can think of to protect myself is I would only hook up with married men straighten. Straight married straightan So that was like, The only that was sort of my my My rule that I would never break is I only when I was in the closet, that would be the only time I would ever hook up with men was if they were married, you know, these straight married men because they they had more to lose than I did So if they tried to you know, ruin my career and my life for football they had a whole family that they'd be you know, risking as well. So It's a messed up thing to think through but like it was a form of selfion like is for me, it was just like a way to protect myself and just sort of assure that like things, you know, wouldn't get out outside of my control. But also too is, you know, if you're having relationships with anyone there's an emotional connection I was very good at taking that part out. Really? Yeah. And to be honest with you, like that was a really hard learning curve even with my relationship with my husband now is like I'm very, very good at I can cut my emotions off like when it's just it's sort of a skill that I don't like that I have But like I'm very good at separating my emotions from myself when I need to to make decisions. Okay. And you feel like that was almost an adaptive behavior Oh, it was definitely a learned trait for sure. Yeah. Like it was sort of just like a numbness that I can sort of just throw through my veins whenever I need to and I just like because I had to do it for so long So it's just like one of those things that sort of like was a learned skill that I hate that I learned how to do. Yes. So then by the time you graduate from college You are such a phenomenal athlete that You can now go to the NFL. Yeah U which from a I mean, I mean, for anyone who's not familiar with the American for Right? I would imagine that to become a football a professional football player is Like it's like single digit. less than one percent. less than one percent So it is it is it is incredibly, incredibly hard. Yeah to do it The moment that you find out because there's a draft. I didn't get drafted. So Yeah. So if you could walk everyone through this because I think it begins to show how hard you had to work What you're getting? I think a lot of people say, oh, you're a professional football player. You got drafted. you're getting paid millions of dollars. No U I mean, I had an incredible junior season of my college career. Broke Reords, all American for every list that you possibly could be in And I stayed there because at that time, college football was different, right? And especially at that level, I was division one AoubleA and I returned for my senior season, you know, had an injury. One of my teammates got kicked off the team who was like not only a brother of mine, he's still in the league U, but was the reason that I was as good as I was. L we just worked really well together. It was my defensive tackle and I was at the outside end So I lose the guy who's somewhat responsible for me being as good as I am and then I had an injury on top of it And you know, I still just out of respect from the coaches in the league, they still made me an all American. And because people gameplayed against me and prepared for me in a certain way that changed how they played against us. Okay So There was like That level that felt good, but it definitely tanked my draft stock So I end up going onndrafted Um, and I think there's two hundred and Just shy three hundred people that get drafted every year. Okay. I was not in that top group, but I had a much offers to go sign a differenting on different teams My signing bonus that I ended up taking was, I think three thousand five hundred dollars three thousand five hundred. Yeah, I remember it was a tough decision because I think the forty nineers offered me fifteen thousand and I just remember my agents being like, you have a better chance of making it on the charges roster and you know, the nineers so we think this is a better move So I said yes. Even that Colton is blowing me away. I didn't realize this I mean that is money, but it's it's for NFL. I know It's nothing. becausecause then once you're in it, like my practice squad like because in once like once I was on practice squad, it was like thirty eight hundred a week. 'a you're on ak weekly contract on practice Squad. so you don't sign for the year They can cut you at any point Um You know, but still like at the end of the day, my first, you know, my first year I made six figures. which is hard to do on any other job coming directly out of college. Yes. So like at least like that perspective is there. And also like I had to remind myself like I made six figures playing a kids game You know, granted, yes, we're all grown men playing in the NFL, but like playing a kids a game that was designed for kids to play And I only had to play for four months out of the year. Yeah. rightight? So like the perspective was always there that like this was cool and So different like, you know, this was my job Yes. But wasnt it wasn't a lot. I was doing it at that point, especially on practice squad more just because it was a dream of mine All so practice squad for anyone who's not familiar. So you are on the team. Yeah but you're not playing in the games. Yeah. so there's an active fifty four man roster And so that means fifty four people dress for the game And then there's an additional I mean, The league has changed so much even since I've been out of it now. I think it's like ten or twelve people. I don't even know But then those players are there on the sidelines for games, but they are only there for practices So we, you know, we get the team ready. So like when we play with the Patriots, I would be Gronkowski on the scout team Or if we played somebody who had a good edge rusher, they would move me, you know, to the edge rusher to go practice. So basically my responsibility on the team was to prepare my teammates for the game. And I liked it. I took a lot of pride in it. Yeah. Yeah. and you're living the dream. Yeah You know, you li didid it feel like you were living the dream I think so I think there was times where I was like, okay, this is really fun I think like I just I have bittersweet moments of the NFL because like it is it was such an achievement to get there. But then once I got there, like the smoke and mirror started to like you know Go away And I started seeing, you know, more of like the business side of things. Okay. So that was a little like confusing for me. All right, and probablyably disheartening Yeah, a little as well. Y dad. Yeah You must have been incredibly proud th Very Yeah. My parents my parents were so proud. They came to all of my preseason games. It was yeah, it was a lot of fun you were still maintaining Yeah. you were still closeted. Yep. where you still on the side of participating even in homophobia in the locker room, et cetera. Less when I was in NFL. Okay. And I also think like people in the NFL locker rooms kept in themselves a lot more. Like when you're in your twenties and you're in college and you' sort of partying together and you're all single But like, you know, I remember I'm in there with like Philip Rivers, who has eight kids at the time and These are like grown men with families and like no they're not sitting there, you know, shooting the shit and talking about their personal lives. There was of course, a couple people who were' like the single playboys and like wanted to talk about girls and who they're hooking up with So there were some performative aspects still there for me but it was less of the homophobic. I would say I still like I still witnessed it Um, My case specifically, I was the same draft class as Michael Sam. So I just was in a different locker room than him. So like, you know, everybody in the press was sort of signifying like, you know, we're ready for this. Look at this. This is so great. like we accept him. We love him But then I'm in a different locker room that's like shitting on him behind his back Can you can talk about Michael Sam for anyone who's not familiar? and I distinctly remember Yeah this moment. Michael Sam was a SEC defensive player of the year. Like he was one of the most outstanding We played the same exact position and he came out as gay prior to the draft U And I don't know like what the stats are, but I'm a, you know, I'm a betting man that if you go back and look back at the SEC defensive player of the year They're mostly drafted in the top three rounds he after You know, coming out, hes slid to the seventh round U and signed with the RamMs at the time and then got cut And then picked up by the cowboys briefly just to sell some more jerseys. You you know, I just it's just That story to me, it was so obvious what was happening Can we talk about that just for a second? Yeah if we can nerd out on this topic because I distinctly remember Yep that I thought He was going to go higher in the draft. Yeah. I thought he would be picked up and he would be playing immediately. And so He went lower than everyone predicted. Y. And then he went to the Rams. I definitely remember Yeah. but he was cut Before he played, correct Now to this day, when I look at News articles is the statement I believe coming from the team is They cut them for a variety of reasons, none of which deal with sexuality what do you believe actually happened I believe that the NFL doesn't like people becoming a distraction in the locker room and or a distraction to the team specifically U And I think you see that. like there's only a handful of players who can get away with it. The Tom Bradyies, the Patrick Mahomes, the Travis Kelseyys. players who their brand becomes almost as big as the team they're playing for. And so they're somewhat safe, right? But at the at the core of the NFL They don't like when players get bigger than a L league They sort of like suppress it a little bit. they don't like that. and they especially don't like it when it becomes a distraction And that plays out in the media They want to talk about their wins, they want to talk about stats, they want to talk about Jersey sailed, like they don't want to talk about somebody's sexuality So I think like that at its core had a little bit to do with it Um You know, my heart actually goes out to him as a player too because like You know, I was playing closeted, which is like different, but like playing with that pressure of being the first out gay player on top of just like the pressure of the learning curve even him playing in the SEC and then going to the pros you know, it's a pretty big jump from skill. So like you have to really bring your shit every single day And I can only imagine like the pressure he felt, you know, from having Because you know, he pretty famously kissed his boyfriend on draft day when he got drafted And I just remember that meme went everywhere and you know, all of the sports, you know, the sports media was running with different headlines there So, you know, I just he had a lot of pressure on him. He did He did And and to your point is, um You know, he And and he never played out No know he's never never applied played out his dream. So you're witnessing this. Yeah. So what are you thinking as you're observing this I think it just solidified my decision was the right one of not coming out. I mean, sadly You know, it just I think I can look back and say like this was a man who was supposed to enncourage me to come out and be myself. And if I had, you know, the courage at the time to raise my hand and be like, I'm a gay player as well you know, maybe that triggered another person. Maybe, you know, so like there's always those what if's in my head of like what could have happened just like strength in numbers, right? Yes. But unfortunately, I just I just saw too many and I also like It might have been different if I was a second or third round pick, right. Then I might have had a little bit of leverage or a little bit of safety and security in my job But at the time, I didn't I didn't want even I didn't want people knowing my name outside of the coaching the coaching staff, right? Like I just want to be there. I want to work hard. I want to do my job, keep my head down and just go to workay under the radar. Yeah. currently There are no W There are no openly gay players. in the NFL. Yeahep, right. And this is Currently, right knowing everything that you know. if you could go back that moment Michael San He's out Would you have also come out then I mean If I'm sitting in this position now where I'm at, yes, I should have, and I would have if I had known my life would look like this But I think there's Like that is part about being closeted that is like hard to sort of articulate is There's this overwhelming fear. that your life is over as you know, which is sort of true Like once you come out, your life is over. you're starting from scratch And I think there was a fear of like, I just put seventeen years into the sport. Why would I do this to myself and come out and jeopardize and ruin Yes, I'm still the same player. Maybe I even become better because I play looser faster quicker and like I just I don't have like this heaviness to me I just think there was too much uncertainty. Like you know, my job as a defensive end was sort of calculating risks and like trying to figure out how to like you know, play chess against this offensive lin manan, go sack the quarterback and make tackles. Like the calculator risk of coming out, like the cons outweigh the pros Unfortunately. So I think that's a poetic way to describe it is that your job, your entire Life was about calculating risk. Totally. And I' I' very conservative with how, you know, I went about that. Yeah. So And I've always been like even, you know, playing the position I played. I always played within the system, but I was always A gap like this is my gap, this is my responsibility. I'm one eleventh of this defense right now. I have to do my job. Like some my teammates will make the tackle if they need to, but like if it comes my way, like I got this. Yes.. I see it Can anyone tell me why roaming fees are always so expensive? 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And if you want fifteen percent off your first purchase, make sure you use my code WNTT at checkout. Details are in the episode description NFL to the Bachelorette Like how does that happen I mean, I just I remember my cray ring over, I hurt my shoulder I was going through this arbitration with one of the teams and It was a year long process. It was brutal. I had to get surgery and then sort of come to terms that like I was done And so I like in a somewhat joking way, but somewhat serious way, I said to my dad, like, I've been playing football now for seventeen years. I was like, can I just take a year off and just like This is the amount of money that I got from my settlement. They paid part of my contract out I said what I'm going to do As I'm going to take this money, I'm going to put it in a bank account and I'm just gonna like try to see if like anything like if this works, like Just I'm going to just go follow, you know a passion of mine. and I fell into the Bachelorette franchise. and I didn't really realize The magnitude of like filming all three shows back to back to back. Yes. It was life changing in a crazy way It was sort of a running joke and sort of how it started. was like, I just want to take a year off. Like I've never really done this. and For me being closet at the time too, I was like, this is perfect. Like If I end up getting on this, maybe I'll find my wife, right? You know? So is wild wild experience.'s it's very wild because you then join Three of you you join one of the biggest franchises in the world in the three shows. She did the bachelorette, bachelors Paradise. and then the Bachelor. Yeah. Okaykay. Yeah. So when you look at that Was it how many years of your life was that One What Yeah, I mean, was? It was two thousand eighteen And then I filmed, I think Yeah. and then my bachelor' season aired in twenty nineteen. That's what a lot of people likeike I filmed three shows back to back to back. So when I was in Bachelor in Paradise Bachelorette was just airing So I never got to watch that And then by the time I got off Paradise I was already in like fittings and meetings for becoming the Bachelor And so like I didn't really have a lot of time to figure out how this was changing my life in public because I was But like working. I was back in front of the camera doing a thing It was funny after I wrapped Bachelor I went to Vegas to some of my friends and we went to a Kane Brown concert and hisis team invited us backstage for it and I just like was curious of the venue and I like popped my head out on the stage and The crowd went crazy And like I remember That was like the moment. L his manager ran down and like, what the hell was that? And I was like, I'm just like looking at the crowd. And but I was like, oh, my life has changed. L at that time, like it was at the bachelor was at like an all time high as far as like viewership and ratings and stuff But I didn't like I was so naive like of like what this show is, you know, gonna to do to my life and my career Yes. How does it feel to hook your head out and see how many people are in there? It's thousandousands probably. Yeah. There' a lot. It's thousands, right to have them go wild How does that feel I just I don't know, like now like I loved the fame aspect of it for about eighteen months. Like I just thought it was so fun and cool and different. And like I was like, this is exhilarating. And then now looking back at I'm like, it's so famous so silly. L No human is meant for it. like I think at that time it was twenty five, twenty six. and I I just like The fact that I had to process that like every conversation that I had with fans or people in public was so one sided because like they knew everything about me, but I You sort of lose this art of getting to meet people justust because like they're like sort of pressing you with everything they know about you from reality television. Right So it was really it was sort of challenge. I mean, and on top of all of that at the same time, like I'm like internally trying to figure out if I need to come out or like what how like how I'm going to come out now at this point or like what's going to happen So it just was like a really confusing, weird time for me. Right. And to your point is I think the audience, its what I've noticed with reality television is it's parasocial relationship, right? For sure. audience believes they have a relationship someone Totally. But they only have a quasi, a pseudo relationship with a sliver of you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. and not all of you. for sure. So What were some aspects to you that you wish The audience actually knew and they were aware of Oh, I mean, like looking back on it now I wish I wish I would have been a little bit more vulnerable about just talking about my struggle with my sexuality I think there could have been something just interesting in that conversation. I mean I don't know if it would have been possible just with how, you know, I grew up in the church and how conservative my family was and just like all there were so many complications to that theory too, and to like the way that I could have gone about it. But I think even like opening up that conversation would have been a It would have made my path to coming out a little easier of'm just like saying like, you know You know, I remember I always got asked like why I was a virgin. So that was like the storyline that they wanted to run with and I hated it because I just I didn't want that pressure and then I also like people digging in because at that time I had hooked up with men. So like I didn't it just put me in a position for people to come forward and discredit or give another reason why I'm a virgin. How did that even come up? Be I do I distinctly remember at that time Before I knew your name. Yeah, I knew. I was a Virgin Bachelor. Yeah. I I went into it. I went into it my whole heart was like, I am not going to disclose to them that I'm a virgin no matter what I literally told them I was a virgin on Night One, a Bachelorette Like these producers are so I've never like You know, I had just, I had only gone to therapy my last year when I was with Oak Inrators So I had like, I didn't really understand the psychology of like one Hollywood. But then two, just like these producers are basically just very, very good therapists And so you're sitting in like this chair Tell me about the had to be hard. What is it like that? And I'm just like, I opened it up like immediately and I was like just gave them everything whichich they loved. Thank you. They loved. So that's unfortunately how it sort of came to be. And then it became my entire storyline. But there' so many complications to it too. Like there were so many reasons why I was a virgin It was my faith. It was obviously like the one that I didn't tell publicly was my struggle with my sexuality Um, so yeah. and then also like I think there was always like in the back of my mind a little guilt. of like, why would I do that, you know, why would I go down that path with a woman if I know in my heart that I'm gay then there was a part of me that was like, I think I need to try this or like maybe once again, like the silliness of like Maybe if I have sex with a girl I will become straight. Like you just like convince yourself like at some point, I just was so good at convincing myself that The next step I will become straight I need to get engaged. I need to get married, I need to lose my region. likeike all of these different things were sort of steps to becoming straight So when you were then Bachelor You. belieelve that. You believe that I believe Yeah to get married have sex with a woman And that would change your sexuality I thought so. I felt like that was like Like Why else would an opportunity like that fall onto my lap if not like sort of put there to sort of help me And like what I was telling myself is like, this is going to force me. I'm going to be so publicly straight that I will never be able to be gay again On one hand, it was like, okay, even if it doesn't work in like this conversion therapy or this way of like convert like doesn't work so trapped because I'm so publicly known now from being the Bachelor that I can never do gay things again So that was sort of what I was like telling myself. something. Yeah And even Wow on the show Were you scared that someone without you Oh, I always think in the back of my mind I had so much fear that somebody' going to try to outmight But then like I was very careful in how I went about that And I had sort of my My rules and sort of just like this layer protection I always like it's, you know, it's why I got my first tattoo just so I could become identifiable Oh really. But then I ended up just wrapping it when I would go hook up with guys and be like, I hurt my wrist, you know? What I'm sorry, Yeah. So you got it specifically. Yeah, I got it specifically I tadted my entire wrist just basically. Once again, like these levels that I was going to to sort of just like try to force myself to not be gay becausecause that's across across. Yeah. So you're saying with that Yeah. some I mean The thought process will one like You know, obviously, my faith is important to me, but also I just I wanted to be in a position where somebody could be like, yeah, I hooked up with a guy had across. I didn't, you know, I don't know where I was exactly going with it, but I was like at least like now, peopleople will be able to identify me outside of just like This dude. So okay. Yeah. okay so now Um onn the bachelort, can I talk about you leaping over this six foot fence Yeah Okay And this is this is really what I want to say about it. Yeah is u very impressive Thank you Very impressed. And it's not only the leadite It's the fact that you did it with a jacket on You had like hard shoes on. and had boots. You had boots.ot and jeans. And you had jeans? Yeah Can I ask walking to the? As you're walking to the fence In your mind are you thinking, I'm jumping over this thing No. I I didn't know what was happening. I just like I knew that I just needed to get out of there I just I didn't know if it was going to open or not. And then by the time I got to it, I was like, oh yeah, I could clear this. So I'm just gonna do that And so I cleared it It was like like adrenaline is a powerful, powerful thing. I was coursing through my I just remember like that night Bically when I did the Bachelor, I had I don't want to say like a rule, but like I think and I also think my directness is what got me the gig in the first place As I said, like, look, I'm down to make a great show with you guys My only rules just don't mess with my top three Be like I knew a certain level of production at that point. like this is my third show. So I had enough context of how they did the other shows to know there's a little bit of producer manipulation. There's things that there's bombs that get dropped in to like affect relationships and dynamics and conversations. So I basically just said to them I said, Hey, just do me a favor and just don't mess with my top three So your top three choices, you said Yeah You' say, just don't manipulate those. Just don't manipulate those. Okay. And like I'm good. L entertain, do everything And by that point in the show somethingomet happened where I figured out that they manipulated it. and I was like, like And also like weirdly at that point is like the only time where like the lead has really any power because they have millions of dollars invested in this show and they're not going to restart. So it's like you finally sort of have the leverage that youve never had the entire time But once again, like that was like a learned skill for me just like I don't know, I just felt like all of these aspects I sort of developed just from being so good at controlling situations because I had to in my life and of my sexuality Yes. like I just became like this master of being able to like figure out how to, you know, position myself in a way that protects me So then wasas your intention to leave in that moment or just get Oh, leave for sure. I went I went back up to the room They they take your um they hold that but I had my wallet which had my driver's license. So my plan was just to go get a new passport. and dip out on my own cover my own flights. I was like, I just want to get I was in Portugal at the time So I had to go back to the go to the U.S. emmbassy, get a passport And then I was lost. I'm bad with directions. So I jumped off fence and I was two hours out just wandering around So you walk for two hours. Oh yeah because I saw they were trying to find Oh yeah, they tried to find me for a bit Um, It was it was interesting Yeah. You know also when I looked at that. I watched it with the sound on first And I washed you with the sound off. And I watched she come down the stairs and I saw how you look? and I wonder Were you trying to escape The show Are we trying to escape the facade Colton that you had built over the years I think it's a mix of both I think like they're just like that was like the perfect culmination of like Hell am I doing? Like It just was like like this is so silly Like I'm like upset because of like making this TV show, but then I'm also like upset with myself that I'm like going through all of this. I think there was always sort of that like level of shame that I carried throughout like You know I do think There's a reason why I was the Bachelor. and like for me and my life and my path, like it was one of the only ways for me to come out Like just how everything unfolded and played out in my life Um, I truly believe like there was a reason and like that was one of the only ways that I would come out. I should have never been in that situation. I should have never been the Bachelor. I should have like there's a There's a bunch of different ways to come out, not in that way, and I should have done something differently by That wasn't in my cards. That was sort of just like the life that I sort of fell into. and I think there's a lot of frustration in that in that moment that you see that that like makes a lot more sense for people, you know now when they rewatch it. Absolutely, absolutely. Now now from that show you then went on to do several other shows.. So there was a show that was a documentary of you actually coming out. Yeah, right. You also were on Mask Singer. U you were on my wife's favorite trraders, celebrity traders. Yes. withith Ma Higgins, who was who was She's the best. She's awesome She's awesome. You know what I love so much is I love to see her Sine globally now. Yeah I told her that after the show, I was like, you're about to be a star She like, what do you mean m you know She's pretty well known in London, but like the US. based in I was like, you are incredible. like you're just so genuine and authentic and You speak from your heart, like and it's not always proper. And that is like the best way to do it Yes. I was like you were about to, you know, have the time of your life Look at that. Look at that. And I'm with you. I'm with you. I think her story just continues to rise. Totally. Yeah, toottally so now Across these shows though. ye place that we have to get to is Audience, opinion. Yeah offll for you So what do you perceive audience The audience view is of you Especially, I mean, I think traders it's fresh, but ively across all of these shows because you're well known And we know that people love people have opinions. Yeah. So what do you believe the Eually opinion is of you I think there's probably quite a few that are just confused. like You know, the Bachelor of fandom is pretty conservative. U You know, and most of them stuck by me and supported me and you know, loved me through my ups and my downs I think most people are just sort of like unsure like who is this guy? Like what like what, you know, I've been You know, I've been on their screens since I was twenty six So I'm Really like I've had high highs and I've had low lows in front of the world at this point Um I think like The shows that I've done have always been so serious and so like I've had to like, There's always lighter moments in them, but like the Bachelor is like a dating in love and you're supposed to get engaged and it's like has a serious tone to it my documentary and coming out and what I was going through at that time of my life Dark and hard and challenging. So then like when these fun opportunities to go on the mas singer And all these like, I jump on those because I get to like I'm not a very serious person and I'm also like not Like of course I played football blank, I'm not a super aggressive person either. I just like love to have a good time and I'm like down to like just go, you know, shoot the shit and put myself in uncomfortable, weird positions. like I shot a show called Beyond the Edge in Panama where I survived in the jungle. like that type of stuff is fun to me. Yeah Just like trying new things and like being a little bit more lighthearted It's like that's when, like, you know, traders come up and'm like, o, I'm going to like Give it my all. I'm play this game really hard But like I'm gonna have a good time and I just sort of want to like you know, fuck with people on here because like that's it's a such a psychology like it's a You just have to like throw yourself and that mindset when you're playing a game like that. Yes. So I bet people are just confused. They're like, who is this? Who's this guy? Yeah rightight and I'm with you, right? So the here's how I view it I think that the majority, I think the majority are with you. Yeah, they're like, you know what? tootally C we like we like him. like, you know, we see The struggles We've seen him, you're right from twenty six to thirty four. Yeah, right. We've seen him on the screens. We love him That's majority. I think there's a group Most recently from the Traders. Oh yeah T gotot super upset. And I'm trying to understand exactly why. they were so upset because I was trying to ask my wife this too. becausecause what I understand is that You literally received Death threats. Yeah. And There was so much Turmoil within the audience that even the show to state, look You know Chill out, basically. Yeah. Right. So there's that group And I'm trying to understand. and actually even if you can help me understand What happened? cause what do you believe happened to cause people? I mean, there's no reason to give anyone a death threat. Right. But what inspired that? I think people associated time in my life from something that happened at this point six years ago to this tightened character of I can call myself a character on this on Titers They sort of drew a direct line of This is what happened six years ago in the ending of a relationship that like really was publicized and I was in a really dark place in my life And they sort of drew a direct line to how aggressive I was playing the game and how I really threw myself in there. and they're like, oh, this is a pattern Okayassie. And in reality It's not, I don't I would not call that a pattern at all. It was more so just like you know, I was playing the game really, really hard and the people who I targeted and who I went after you know, just happen to be fan favorites from very big franchises, like The Bravo world and you know, Big Brother world, all these like They love their people. And, you know, just like, you know, people there were people definitely rooting for me too. But like that's what makes that show so polarizing. But I think like that's my sort of my reflection on it is You know, I've obviously had to deal with my past and I've had to take accountability. I've had to apologize over and over and over and over and over again, I always will, I always will Um But what I would say is like that is so far fififteen versions of M ago Like that's like the best way to put it is like I've I've lived so many different lives. like you know, meeting Jordan, getting married, having a kid, like all of those things change you and like this really fun, beautiful way, coming out change me Going through, you know, like intense therapy, you know, coming out to myself, it took me two months of therapy just to come out to myself So like All of these things changed me and the audience was not a part of that right outside of the Netflix show, but even then it's like, that has a gloss to it that isn't always as raw as what I was going through. Like I was quite literally doing therapy in my closet. My dad's because I moved back in with him because I was abusing my medication So like I was doing My therapy session from my car outside in the driveway. or his closet. Just to have privacy because I wasn't ready to tell him that I was out yet and I didn't want him overhearing me with my therapist on ZIimM. because it was all during COVID So no place was open for in person. So it was just like They weren't a part of that So I could easily see why they just want to make their own assumptions, but I will say like, I will go out and say like I'm definitely not Like I I liked how I played the Game Traders. L I really liked how I played really, really hard. That is not like an accurate representation of how I show up every single day as like a dad and as a husband I'm not like that in real life, but like when I go to play a game and I'm there to make TV, like that's just sort of that's, you know, what I do. Right. So and to that point of there could be a level of being upset because of past incidents. that was Almost what I was going to get to with the third group is I think that there's a third group to your point haven't gone through on this journey with you. R Right Yeah. And so they're seeing these snapshot moments Yeah. and they're saying, well, you know, look how we showing up here Has he taken accountability And you're saying No, no, I have but more importantly is I've changed as a human being Yeah. I mean, I'm also just, I'm not really in a place of my life where I'm like I know who I am at this point and I'm not going to sit here and try to convince people to like do it. And also I just think like you know, there's Plenty of places that people could look to see me talk about what happened six years ago. Like there's plenty of information out there to see where I've spoken at length on that for for that to come up again. so, you know just so heavy for, you know, when I'm with my kid and you know, my husband and he's receiving these messages and threats, like that's at the point where I'm like, this isn't cool. right? Like, you know, it's one thing if you don't want to be a fan of mine, don't be a fan of mine, but like You can't be, you know, the death threats have to stop and like adding fuel to a fire or this false narrative and just like Just blatant lies too that we're you know, sort of spreading It just was sort of like a dogpile effect that was happening. and It was like a slow motion train wreck that I just like didn't know. I was like What is going on? Yeah. Like it was my favorite show that I've ever filmed. I loved filming Traders It was my hands down the favorite my favorite project. Wow. off all the projects you've done. Oh, for sure. Wow. I'm a big like I love playing games. Yeah. And so like have that. I mean Also just like the show is so gay at its core. Right? Like I mean,'s the most campy you're in Scotland playing dress up and Alen Cumming as your host. and somebody's getting murdered, you know, it's so gay. This is very cool. Very, very, very cool show. Kate And James, you better call me. Welcome to A age after the town James, you know that I worry about you all the time because I'm your big sister. For me, there's no better feeling of relief than hearing your humor I can't hear that in a text message. I can't hear your exxcitement, These pictures are great that you're sending me, but I want to speak to you. Rather than just getting all these onslaughter photographs of this that and the other, tell me what it's like, how gorgeous the place is will say You're great at communicating person Yeah Gina A came I'm not a caller So what are you then No way, I'm shocked Oh you're very nuy And you kn Consider who you are, come on I feel like I need to give you about fifty lines. I will call, I will call, I will call. I will not text. it is bad. Yes it is. We have to do these things to make Those connections with people It might be a colleague at work, it might be a friend, it might be a family member. But unless we make them connections And what is it all about You have said it so poetically We are truly here to connect We're in partnership with IDiMobile and Mental Health UK. And if we take anything away from today, it's the P positivity of making a call. So we want you to stop texting And let's make it a call. I promise I'm going to do it Will you I have to talk about You hiding from your dad doing therapy. Yeah while also having Was it ab using painkiller drugs? U no, it was yeah, it was a mix of Well, I was on Alexap Probe that I wasn not ab usinging by Xanx. I was struggling with my Xanx usage in alcohol. Okay. Are you open to talking about? Yeah, ye, yeah. Okay. so this is was this coming off of Bachelor Yeah. this is coming off of the bachelor I've been on and off Luxaro throughout the Bachelor taping Llexapro Lexopro' is antidepressant. So that was that was my antidepressant. There was some gnarly side effects for me that I didn't I wasn't fully like you know, like honest with my doctor and even myself with like how mood swings were happening and it just made me like The best way to explain it like the combination of medicine that I was on between the Lxb and the Xanax and then alcohol as well was I was like playing myself through a video game So it was like this Um I just was like, I just sort of had this like, overhead view of myself living my life And it was just like this weird feeling of I had no consequences. So I just had like this I'm blinking on the word that I'm looking for, but it's a disassociation. Yes with myself. Okay. So like that was the state of mind that I was For a stretch, I was in that for about two weeks at my worst stretch So it's like every day You know, I was taking, you know, Xanax during breakfast lunch and dinner. Really? On top of, yeah So Okay, and you were A back at home No, I was in West Hollywood at that time. Oh my God. I just we just ended the relationship and It was like a confusing time for me because like once again, like at that time, I left throw my identity at whatever was not me coming out So at that point, I was the bachelor. I was like this guy who ended the show and did this cool thing and didn't end it in the traditional way And then all of that sort of goes away. And then That's when like the blackmail happened And once that happened, the It became much easier for me to take more pills to try to just like, not have to look that direction. Okay. Okay. And so the blackmail is this what ultimately forced You'd have to come out In a way, yeah, I sort of credit it. I think that's like a little bit of me trying. I'm a glass ale type guy. So like Of course, like it was a dark and weird time but it was the push that I needed Yeah, there was a letter set in the email set But I had to for it to my publicist. So I had to come out to my professional team before my family So my public assist, my manager, my agent, all. I had to tell them that I was gay before I really even had the opportunity to tell my family And this is because someone sent an email. Yeah, I denied it for a while, and then my pubicist is a gay man. You know, I credit him for really helping me come out too. and then also the guys who ended up being the executive producers of my Netflix show. They were there sort of there from the entire thing So they were sort of the ones that put me in a position to to allow me to come out to them first Okay. And and and I would imagine so the email What did it say? What did it contain It contained factual data of actual date and time of when I went for one of my hookups with the guy So at that point, like I had known that I had you somebody following me and taking pictures goodness. u So that was like the scary part is like, you know, I built my life up to that point being very careful And then of course like the one time where I sort of just was like loosey, goosey with it and like didn't really you know I didn't really myself, I was wide open and Now, so then you were followed So what was that? would do you believe that was They claim that they had images, but like the I never I had never saw them. I don't know if my team saw them. I was sort of at that point I let them handle it. like that's what, you know, why they're on my team and why they help me. And my publicers specifically He basically had a lot of the The details of what was happening, you know for my prior relationship, just he put all the pieces together and called me. I remember this. I was in Illinois. I was on at my grandma's house in the driveway and He's like, I'm going ask you a question. and He's like I just want to let you know like whatever the answer is, it's going to be okay I was like, okay And he's like, arere you gay? And for the first time in my life, I immediately answered yes And I just I don't know why, I don't know how like because I'd never really been able to like say that, especially And it's like everything's going to be okay, but this makes so much more sense And then eventually, you know, it was time after all the conversations happened about like, why should document this that I was able to come out to my family Okay conversation with your mother and father. Yeah It was great. I talk about it in my book, Dear Bishop, but The only person who I came out to notot on camera I did on camera, but we I don't want to say reshot it, but like I didn't even tell the producers, I was like, my mom had such a hard time with Bachelor. So like, She cried one night because like one of the producers said something like she just had a really hard time showing up for television It was not her and like I didn't want to put her in an uncomfortable position. So I took her to dinner And I told her at dinner the night before we were supposed to shoot the scene I was like, I just want to let you like I'm coming out And you know, she thought she was getting punked at first and then it was just like, it was really cute. But I just You know, just out of respect, like you learn like my mom would not have done well I would have sprung that on her You know, and I like I know I should have probably g my dad the same heads up, but My dad's so good on camera and like he's also like He's very composed. He just is like a good person too. So I trusted him with that. And like he had a good time and had, you know, positive experiences on the Bachelor. So I sort of knew him well enough. but yes, yes. Yeah. And how does it ? How did it feel that night? your mom to be able to allow her to see, you know, all of you It was great. So she was the first person in my family that I came out to. And my brother was the second and then I told my dad. And what's what's the emotion when you tell your Your mom, your brother, and your dad I just think like You know, I think there was like a little bit of a hesitation of like, okay, s like What do you have to say about all of this? You know, because You know, like I put my family through a lot. They had to be on bachelorette with me and they had to be on bachelor with me And so they sort of like were like, what is going? This is like it was like whiplash for them a little bit But they were so loving and so supporting And I think like That was sort of my experience with coming out. I know this is not common out there and I know there's like somewhat of a privilege to this, but It was so beautiful because I kept gaining more confidence. Like everybody that I came out to, for the most part, was just so loving and accepting and It was great Yeah Um I think too, I think about your dad Right? And I've got this photo here. Oh yeah. That's from a bachelor Bachelor. Bachelor. Yeah. So when I see that What strikes me most is How much respect and reverence you have for your dad. Yeah. So I can't imagine that was easy at all to then Tell your father this. Oh yeah I'm curious. what was his his reaction immediately, what was his reaction You know, he's, like I said, he's said all of the right things. I mean you people got to see it on the Netflix show. like, you know, he It' basically like, who can I tell for you Like how can I take this off your plate? Like immediately, justust stepped up and like he like That's something with my dad like You know, I I credit a lot of my work ethic and my problem solving skills to him. just because I watched him do it throughout our entire lives and you know, had him as my football coach and my mentor So like I felt that is, you know That was something that I had always sort of trusted like goodness in him with coming out Yeah U But then it was funny because as soon as the cameras went down, he said to me, he goes I love you. I'm so proud of you Dot be gay, J just don't become a Democr And like tr true to like that's exactly what he said to me. And I was like, okay, like don't know what that means yet. but like sure. But at that time like politics for me wasn't really even like a massive thing. Y. Obviously after coming out and learning about, you know, different marginalized communities and rights and all of It's made for some very interesting Thanksgivings and conversations And then it didn't help that my husband is a top democratic strategist. And so that was An interesting thing to navigate But I just like like that that's my family though, right? Like Those are my people. And like that's what I try to tell people too is like, I'm It took me a long time to find my lane in our community and the gay community And I take a lot of pride and joy still having a pretty conservative following just so that I can be patient with them. I could hold their hand, I could teach them You know like even today on social media, there was somebody who wrote a mean comment about my son saying like I feel bad for that kid And, you know Instead instead of just, you know, firing back some high, I just want to take the time to educate this dude. Like let's break this down. What do you mean by that? My kids happy and he has two loving dads So that's my role. And like Marn, it took me a long time to figure that out, but it's like And I sort of credit him too of like just helping teach me And like me teaching him of life Hey hey, let me just you Okay, noted on the Democrat thing, but like let's look at some of the Democratic politics or policies versus the Republican ones.. See which one supports your son. you know? There you go. So You know, that is beautiful Yeah. And you're underscoring actually one of my biggest lessons being a father And that is is remaining teachable Yeah. So being able to teach also learning along the way. Right. You know and that gets me Yeah to another surprise. Oh. All right So I want you to take a look at this photo. Tell me, what's happening in this photo? What does this mean to you Oh gosh. We were in Mexico. Okay, who's the Wi? who's the W? My husband and my son Bishop and we did a a photo shoot on the beach with this photographer that is based in P of vert And it was just so much fun. We had outfits picked out for all of us and we just wanted I just remember like We're gonna to do like let's, I want to remember this vacation in this moment and He's just the happiest kid And so we literally just got to run on the beach and run around the resort taking photos. H' in this is this is him Literally ninety nine percent of his day is just with a big smile and curiosity And he's I'm just like I learn so much from him every day perspective. You know Par joy. Yeah, it is pure joy. You know what, Thank you for that. You know what's so interesting to me is you could see how you know you have probably never saw yourself at age six or seven or sixteen or eighteen or twenty four as Colton the Dad You know. Yeah. and and here you are But you're Dad with Jordan Yeah So can you tell me about When did Jordan enter your life Jordan entered my life. The first night I met him was at the rap party of my Netflix show Um I remember saying to Gus Kenworthy who helped me on my coming out I wass like, hey, Like, thank you, this is great. I just don't have any gay friends Like I didn't like, you know, whether it was by design or accident, I just don't have any giftrs. It's like, Well, let me like, throw you a party Um So we had there was thirty gay men on a rooftop in downtown LA. and he was there But we had like, you know, we just He talked a little bit. I just remember, you know, him talking about, you know, I just remember leaving the night being like, okay like I sort of aligned with him And two months go by, I go back to Denver And then we're on the same trip to Provinceown Massachusetts is a P to. And it rained the entire weekend And so we just had so much quality time And I really got to know him and understand him and we just like hit it off and fell in love in a weekend. And it was like You know at the time I was on all of the apps. I bought premium everything. Yeah because everybody in my life is like You just came out G go go med, go wild, right? Like just go hook up with whoever and I was like like I had already done that when I was closeted, right? Like that and I'm not a grasses greener type guy So after that weekend You know, I was coming back out back and forth and we were seeing each other and You know on one of our first dates, he was like, you know, like I want kids and I was like, so do I? And so You know, that's not an extremely common thing for gay men to talk about on their first date. So I was like, okay, like there's definitely something here And u There sure was. it just was it was like perfection perfection. Yeah perfection So now How long have you and Jordan been together Five years this weekend. F years this weekend has when our first we first met. We met on Memorial Day weekend in P toown U and then married for a little over two. Okay, Married for a little over two. All right. So one is congratulations. two congratulations. Yes on that. Um But yeah,ed we started the baby process even before our wedding. Oh did you? Yeah, because it took it took us about two and a half years. Okay.. so the process, this surrogacy process. Yeah, I've noticed for I Gay men Incredibly challenging all over the world And from what from what my research tells me is that U easier in the states, but still challenging. Right. So easier in the states versus say the UK. Totally, which is why so many people come from the UK over to the U.S Um, How was it How is it still challenging? laws do you believe need to change Well, I think I could like speak specifically for the US right now. Yeah there's this organization I work with called Family Equality. Um It is legal in thirteen states in the United States to openly discriminate against same sex couples for adoption. So they will not place a kid U in adoption you know with a family because they' same sex and like legally they can do that. So that discrimination is still open U littleittle things in other states as far as having mother and father on birth certificates. So you know, it changes, I think in certain states, but some This kid will have either his egg donor or his surrogate's name on his birth certificate, his or her birth certificate for the rest of their life. isn't really the parent. So like giving birth to the bishop here in California, we had parent one and parent two We didn't have mother and father. I see. And I think like those are just they feel little but they make a big difference for how our day went. of like welcoming our child into our lives. I mean, we hear You know, my line of work, I love advocating for IVF and same sex couples and talking about my journey and what we've been through. and that's why I'm so public with Bishop and I don't hide his face and I'm so proud to sort of represent that in our community Um, You know, we've heard horror stories of certain nurses and even hospitals not letting, you know one of the dads or one of the wives in because the real dad's already in there. You know, like that's the language that they use. So Um That's something that I think like not a lot of people fully consider in all of the states here. I would definitely say the number one barrier is financial. likeike it's very expensive. Most insurance does not cover it Um you know, there was a couple things passed here in California that make it a little cheaper now U with IVF assistance to help But we still have long ways to go. It's a very expensive process Um And you know I always try to explain to people too that sameame se same sex couples. that want to build a family. they are quite literally doing one of the most intentional things you can do. to bring life into this world So That already should tell you everything you need to know about them as parents.? Like They're being so intentional about Go through this, it's so expensive, it's so time consuming, it's so emotionally draining But it's so worth it And those are the type of people who should be putting kids into this world. So that's like What I always try to remind people. Yeah. You know, I entirely completely agree with you Yeah. And what I believe should be the litmus test is who is going to provide emotional safety to our children. That is ultimately it. Right. And when you look at the hurdles that same sex couples have to jump as you're describing Yeah It's proof And that's why when someomeone gives you that comment Um I I admire you for not going in on them, but instead. Oh, I have. Oh yeah, just depending on the day. Okay. Most of the time, I like to be calm, understanding, patient But there definitely are fery days where I'm like, fuck no, you're not doing this to my family. Right, You know, and I'll fire something back ye Yes So so do you think Jordan has has balanced you out a little bit Oh yeah. We're very much ying and yang. Yes, like in almost every aspect of our lives Like I couldn't tell you What airline or flight or hotel we're at, My husband handles that But like when it comes to, you know, other like just we pick up, we're really good at picking up each other' slacks Okay like where like he excels, I like need help and vice versa So we're very complelimentary just not only in our life as life partners but as fathers too Love it. love it. I have a final surprise for you Okay Ready for this one? Let's do it. Okay. So this is it's coming from this side now H Mck could open then up Yeah and give that a read Brz Colt Oh Colton is the embodiment of what a husband and father should be He works so hard, he plays so hard. He manages to juggle a million balls and always seems like he's having fun When he makes a decion decision, he never looks back. He's all in There's no grass is greener instinct in cold. As a partner, it's the best I always knew that whatever big life decision we made, Colton is in if Colton is in, he's in Watching him become a dad was almost as great as becoming a dad myself It helped me relax into our life together revealing the good times, moving through the hard ones with grace together and always coming back to gratitude In short, he's the best person I know and Bishop and I are so lucky he's ours My sweet man He's way better with words than I am his That's incredible this I'm going to give that back to you. I'm going gonna to hold on to a temporary. Okay, okay o Yeah. and then I'll give it back to you now I am I know that u you now well, you haven't actually for the last few years because this is your second book Yeah, but you're an author. Yeah and your current book is really I would say a love letter to your son. Yep He tellld me about it. Yeah, I think You know, the first book that I did I was really proud of it, but it had direct sort of safety. I call them safety lies. Like I you know, I didn't really want to, I wasn't ready to talk about my sexuality and struggling and growing up There were some things in there that just like I always knew like at a certain point, I'm going have to redo this Um, Writing a book is a daunting task and it sort of you have to be in the right mindset to really sit down and like get it done whether you work with a ghost wrriter or not, like it is a very intense process Um, but My husband and I do this thing where we write emails to Bishops So we have a email address And so every time he hits a milestone or does something cool, or we catch ourselves being like, that was awesome. It's my favorite thing when he does X, Y andZ. we look at each like write him an email So we will go then, you know, we spend so much time on our phones anyway, we might as well make it productive. We'll sneak off to the corner and And I'll like snap a picture or a video and be like, Hey, you know, today you rolled over or like you know the other day We do this thing where I say nooggin and then he gives me noggin and He goes, dude. and it's from finding email. And It's my favorite thing that he does right now. L But the other day he did and he head bututted the sht. And then he goes, dude, And I was like, I couldn't be mad. I was like in so much pain, but I couldn't be mad because like I taught him that and So I found myself I'm like, okay, I have this like collection of emails that I have What if I did like just a short book and like just made it a letter to Bishop So that's where dear Bishop came from. and then you know, the trend of everybody moving to audio you know, having you know, the partnership with Het, you know, audio to do this in my own voice And I also like love the fact that it is It is meant for everybody to enjoy, but it is directly to my son Um which was a challenge because there was obviously some things like I wanted to talk about that like I'm very well aware that he is not old enough to hear that yet. but My plan is when he is old enough, I want to present this to him. I want to present the emails to him for him to listen to because I want him to know from me who his dad was. Yes. what I went through, what I'm going through with him and like My goals and dreams for not only myself as a father, but for him As my kid Um So I wanted to share that with him in the letter and that's what I did. Yeah. ye, it's beautiful. It really is. I mean, even the concept of it being an audio. You know, I think it's it's brilliant. And also I think it's inspiring. all parents I think all dads should sort of do. I think this needs to be like a little, it's like a little bit of like a time capsule I think like a lot of dads And I say dads, I mean, moms could do it too, but like I think dads because you know, sometimes We're not always known as the most emotional ones in it.. When we do have that capability and we actually are, we just don't show it all the time I think like it would be really cool for a lot of dads to start doing just like these audio, these voice notes. It doesn't have to be anything big or grand like what I did with Dear Bishop, but like Just having something that sort of serves as like a vault for you like go back and reference and like, oh my gosh, do you remember that? It's just this perspective.. It's a brilliant idea. Yeah. brilliant. I had a lot of fun Yeah in writing it. Um I mean, I can see it. Yeah, yeah, I can see it But when you Relect on your life. What's One thing you hope Bishop will never have to go through that that you went through I think I would say I hope that he would never have to compartmentalize his life to the extreme measures that I did think lookingoo back. that was something that really hindered me and still affects me even at times today where I'm just, I'm not I just like I like having my life so organized and tidy and clean and control, right? So like I think like giving up letting, you know giving up that control for me has been so rewarding and so just like my life has been so much better So I would hope for him He wouldn't feel like he has to compartimmentalize his life. He could let everybody in at all times I see it Yeah, I see it Uh, and I could see how control was Maybe to a certain degree now, you're right was this adaptive strategy tootally that you use to in essence, keep yourself safe. Yeah R It was for sure, I think like I don't wantan to ever make excuses for poor bad decisions that I've made, but like A lot of the time when my control came, like the control freakaking me comes out It's out of self defense And it's just because I don't want to go there either emotionally or I'm protecting you know, I was protecting a big secret for the longest time. Yeah. with something that you've lived through in life that you want Bishop to experience. I think I have two My first one is playing footall Oh no. It''s a constant batt. You passed it down. Really? It's a constant battle with my husband, whether he's going to be able to play or not Um So Jordan does not want him to play. No there's too many injuries for Jordan to sign off on that Okay. I just once again, the pros outweigh the cons I think, you know, the teammates, the camaraderie the melting pot of what the locker room was for me. and like I took so much away from the game of football So I would say that one. And then also just like I hope that he He knows that he can grow up to be whoever he wants to be. And his dads will support him Yes, Yes.. I love it. I have to ask though, because so many people do know you from reality TV. Yeah would you do another reality TV show Yeah, I mean, I think what I've learned is I never speak in definitives now. So I will never be like, no, I'm done. U Yeah, I think the answer is yes if it's the right project and That answer, the right project could change on a daily, monthly, you know, yearly basis of what my soul needs U I just I love doing what I mean, I it's I always jo I'm still in my year off. Like this is my this is my ear off And I've found made a way to make it work for almost ten years now. How was you to say you've had ten years off. My one year off, my fifteen minutes of fame, whatever you want to call it. I'm still here having a good time U Yeah, I think like even like a show like I would do Traitors again I would do another another season. likeike that was it was so much fun Um And that's what life's all about. L these fun crazy opportunities. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. Yeah. All right. so then final question Yeah, everyone gets this. When you think about all the incredible conversations you've had throughroughout life Which one stands out as the most memorable So who was it with? And what did you learn Oh gosh I think like And my head immediately went to the first time Jordan said, I love you And it was just like this feeling I was just like looking at him and I was like, it's okay you can say it And I don't know why like it just was like a gut. like we were just connected And he goes, I love you. I' like I love you too. I was like almost like waiting for him to say at first Um, But it's just like I've never felt more connected to a person in them mom So so what's your lesson then from that moment. I think that was like my lesson of I can let my guard down finally in my life and be who I was born to be. Like that There was no conditions, there was no guard rail. like It was sort of like in that moment, everything sort of just fell. and I was like, okay, like, you know, here I am. this is what you get for the rest of your life Um And I learn a new lesson with him every single day Like I truly mean that. Like it's just were were're so similar but so different in the same in this like weird way that it's just like so well Yes, Yes I am You know, it's so interesting because I would imagine that your parents when they thought about who you are spouse would be. Yeah, right. Jordan has no characteristic in what they thought your spouse was going to be. Right, right. down to politics toly, right But here you found someone who turns your light on. Yeah. Who makes you feel safe? Yeah who you're able to co parent with ye And I can imagine They insanely happy because of that. they get it now. They didn' it at the beginning, but they get it, they understand it now. But they understand it now. And I think that your journey is incredibly inspiring to many people And what I say to many people, it's one of these where you have to be willing to be curious enough lean into it and not stand on the peripheral Be ignorant and not lead in But when you lean in, it's incredibly inspiring. Yeah. And you look at what you've had to go through wouldould you have had to fight through and that you're still this work in progress Right? But you've found this space of safeness. Yeah. And I love most importantly how you light up Bishop. Yeah And I've I did this long scroll down your IG And what I've notice and you you've said this at some point in the conversation. I said, yeep is that bishop is always Massive smile And that in itself tells me everything about how you parent and how Jordan parents So long, long may continue. Thank you. Yeah support system. I have the best support system in the world. Yeah. so Well, thank you, sir. Thank you so much think that he's literally and figuratively in a closet. and he's abusing Drug He is praying Be straight U, he's talking to a therapist and he doesn't want his father to hear. It's just sururreal because He's just come off of the bachelor. He's now a household name in the United States. He's so famous that, you know he unveiled himself at a concert and everyone went wild But yet He's at pererhaps the lowest point in his life I think I'm most surprised at how he owned up to being a super contontroller So the one thing that I didn't want to bring up in this interview. is that the two positions I played I was a running back and a defense event, the same positions. that he played Clearly, like my skill level is nowhere near where this guysy is, being a defensive end As he said, it is truly about calculating risk You know, every position is different and every position, I think, calculates risk to a certain degree. But I feel it's disproportionately what you do as a defense event Isn't it interesting that that was the position his father played That's the position that he played. And that became his life. was trying to calculate risk. You would be the first openly gay player of a top flight team. The world was silent. That's when I saw, okay, that person that pat you on the back for coming out didn't mean it because when it counts, they're not there. I never knew little Joshie could even play football and be gay. It turned to a point where I won besth young playff of that season. and having to act and hide from these people when I'm getting such a privileged award, it killed me We had a huddle in the change room and I announced who I was. too the team. And I thought that I'm not going to have a football contract. That's me hanging up my boots. So it was incredible to see how much love and support was coming my way What happened next? It was me just at a petrol station filling up my car and was someone approaching me from behind tryrying and hit me Have there been times where you have felt unsafe on the pit. I channel all that into being the best football that I can possibly be. and it's basically to say a you to all the haters. Finding myself in a club was so welcoming. It made so much sense for my proposal to be there. I'm in a football pitch and I'm kissing my fiance. This is nuts. I can't imagine what it's like to walk in your shoes. If I had to go back My one messageer day