Reflecting on Life and Grace

And we're live on match day as Doug reaches for a buffalo wing He's got it. Oh and he's gone for a can of Bsy too. What a finish! There's no doubt about it. It just tastes better. Match days deserve Bepsy This episode is brought to you by Nordstrom. Whether you're packing for a vacation or dressing for a wedding, Nordstrom has head to toe looks for wherever summer takes you. From swimwear and bold color to romantic florals and dresses that make an entrance. find the right style for every unforgettable moment. shhop new arrivals from brands you love like Farm Rio, Free People, Vince, Waave, and Sd. Plus free shipping and returns and styling help whenever you need it make it all so easy. Shop now in stores at Nordstrom dot com or download the Nordstrom app As I'm getting ready to go in the car to leave, there was a bottle of gin and I downned it and her son walked in and said, Ant to Michelle. you're not meant to be doing that are you? Michelle Michelle? ty X International success, you had ten consecutive top twenty singles. Sciro had this absolute vision to be in a pop band. Richard Branson was watching the TV show we were on. Pop stars. and would love to sign us. It was just so much fun. Who was it that called you all the flop stars? Okay, I believe it was Really? I didn't realize how low it actually got for you. I don't remember ever doing a gig sober I was juggling behind the scenes with my addictions. I would bingeat and then I would go and get drunk and then I'd start again. I was outed by my manager. He said, You can't wait. I was the only one of the three girls in that suit to wear a dress because I couldn't fit into the catsie. I lost everything I thought I knew about myself. and I was really scared. Whaterere we scared of Michelle Can I show you something Hey there, beforefore we begin the episode, I just want to say Thank you for choosing We need to Tal Doing this podcast is one of the greatest joys of my life. And I want to continue to share it with you. So Hit follow and the bell icon. It takes just a second and it helps us to continue to grow this podcast Sheell H Heaten. that we're talking where I think we should begin is ironically Where I was yesterday. Oh is is it Gateshead that you Oh my go, it was in Gatesead? What are you doing G? sorry, so I was close by. Okay Newcastle Newcastle. All right, okay, you can't say that because Gatesad and Newcastle are separated by the River Tine. So you can't say you were in Gatesead when you weren't in Gateshead. It No different. Okay, so help me understand this because it seems like There is a line. Yes. And also there's a the line also means if you are Geordi or not. That's correct. Yes. so the line is, you know, Newcastle, you're Jeordy And then this gate said after the River time and then the Sunderland. If you're in Sunderland, you're a Macem A Macem. We called a Macem. Now Gates is that grreay area where I think most of the people in there would say that they're Jeordie and this Port N Castle United, but it definitely infiltrates into Sunderland. So what do you consider yourself I consider myself a Geordie, deffinitely yeah, no, Ill all my friends will r than this. I'm definitely a Jeordie. Yeah yeah, but I was never really a massive football fan and those terms came because of the football teams. Okay, F fair. But what was Gateshead What was how would you describe it growing up And I mean, Gates said was predominantly councll estate and so I got brought up on a cannlllestate. My mum and dad managed to buy the house off the council, you know, back then, I think it was like fifteen twenty grand or something, you know, we're talking Like nineteen seventies, nineteen eighties I don't know whether I've put the blinkers on a lot of my childhood or not because Can't really articulate what it was like for me I know that, you know, I had two great parents They loved me and my brother, David And I had no problems at home. You know, the usual arguments, my mom and dad consequently broke up But it wasn't a bad house I didn't live in a house where there was addictions or alcoholism or abuse or anything like that. It was just normal. My dad and his family, you know, and my momum, I suppose, you know, we didn't really talk about things. especially my dad's side of the family. he had a really tough upbringing And I suppose he learnnt to when things were needed to be said or emotions to kind of do that. And so we didn't really talk ever so much about our feelings and what was going on My head was always in the land of fantasy Interesting So I was always imagining what my life could or will look like So what served me well I think growing up was that I had this abbssolute vision, like this tunnel vision of what I wanted out of life and it was to be in a pop band My first ever memory was watching Books Fiz Making You Minder where they whipped off the skirt. I'm making you minder And these take the skirts off on your revision I just held onto that, you know, car journeys. I would just listen to music youormal Walkmen and imagine I was in the music video and You know, I was going to have these these amazing boyfriends. All of them were really old at the time. You know, a ten year old girl thinking that I'm gonna to be shaking Steven's girlfriend was a bit weird, but to me, it never felt weird. Yes. because I saw myself in that position Yes Can I show you something? Okay. I have lots of surprises for you michelle. Oh w. Oh no. what? Yeah, lots of surprises. Okay. This is a good one. This is good one. Okay.'. you ready for? I want you to tell me is happening to this person in this moment. Oh my go. Oh Yes. So who is this? Oh wow. And what is happening to her in the. Okay She is sixteen, I believe, because I recognize that bllaze is in the sixth form. And I've just won Miss Haven. And I think and the talential. So so that's Miss Haven, which is a beauty competition. and she is She has a poem She's a perm. She has what looks like a perm and I have red hair. And I remember going to school the awards. And it's a very different reaction and at school I wasn't popular I I wasn't popular. I had I had Good friends that were in the unpopular group kind of a drift there Any boy I dated was in the evvil or the evil or that. So I dated younger boys because nobody in my year was interested. So I It doesn't look it, but I was a little bit big, you know, little bit big, but back then at school They used to weigh us in PE And all the girls had to wear these tiny shorts And we were lined up and I remember looking at the mirrors in what felt like like the greatest big room in the world, but it was probably a tiny little dance studio And I remember looking at all the girls' legs and Mine was like the second to biggest, biggest I was probably about two and a half town heavier than what I am now And I remember us all being wed in front of each other And that shame, like Prob shame is a lot to do with my then problems with eating. and binging going forward. But that pivotal moment of being awayake in front of people and having to wear the same outfit as others, like that that's really stuck in me and so I remember going to my mom and saying I feel really fat, I'm fat. I look awful. I feel fat. and we weren't the kind of family really to sit around and have B meals with each other But my mum was a cook in the Navy and saw She would always make these big things, but I don't really remember us sitting around together Always like shhepherd's pie and everything, you know, massive big pies. pie with everything.. Pie with pie I know And so I remember saying to her that I really want I want to look good. I want to start this fresh new life at drama school and I really want to look good. than it was weight Watchers Yes. And it was massive and you know, a shake, a shake and a tiny little of food And I remember doing it for like eight weeks and I did, you know, I lost the puppy flat and the weight and my mum and I did it together. And so I went to college and I felt like a new person. repress everything that had happened growing up in school You know, they're not getting the boyfriends, the being called Ms. Piggy, nobody wanting to go out with me being last picked for rounders, like everything was lost And then I was this shiny new girl at drama school and Yeah, have the best time. So how do you get on to pop stars Yeah. So I continuously Audition for thingsings throughroughout my late teens and early twenties, I was in numerous girl bands that didn't make it. Oh I was managed by the same management company as Cheryl Cole, Cheryl Twedie back then Um We performed together in Meadrowland. We were on a little stage and performed peopleople at weekend And so my journey before that had been like that anyway. I would work a Saturday and Sunday job, work as many hours as I could in a store, like topop shop or Otushi there was all of these old stores back then, Tamigo. and then I would quit my job because I've got enough money now to jump on a train to go to London to audition at pineapple or wherever the, you know, dance att dance. Yeah, dance attic, dance city, wherever the old school auditions still get held today. Okay And the reason that I knew auditions were on is because I bought the stage newspaper So the stage newspaper was a bi weeekly aper newspaper that listed all the auditions and what was happening in the industry. so I remember It said, do you want to be the next five or Spice girls? I think it said. We're looking for mixed groups He's the Ok Auditians. and I was like, right, right, I don need to save money for London, but actually They came to Newcastle., okay So I went along to the audition I u I had a song prepared I was going sing Everything I do I do for you by Brian Adams, That was like my go to. So in that moment it didn't felt too weird. There was a lot of production around more than what I was used to. Okay. But it wasn't anything different. Okay So the thought of it being a big massive TV show had happen not on our horizon. Okay. Because it was the first one. Yes. We hadn't seen anything like this before. That's true because there's no X factactor at this time Pop stars the first teelevision, what do you call it show that manufactured band. Okay. Yeah And so for me it was another audition And then you got through to the next round and then you got given lyrics to sing. This trs everybody just sing Reach for the stars from Esve seeven. What was different about this? was like we were all singing in front of each other I' I was used to closed auditions whereas this was openub, everyverybody was there sat behind you and people were chewing you along and there was so much talent in that room. I thought I had absolutely no chance and I wasn't a professional anything I was a professional blogger. After that, like I always say fake it t you make it. I think a lot of people are like that. they just don't want to admit it. And then there was a weekend in Birmingham where There was the final fifty and then and then London and then that was a week. and then then there was the final ten. Then the final ten. So now was the show on air while you were going? No. So it's pre recorded. Yes.. So it's all prerecorded. And I had left my dancing gig at the nightclub to do this And so aboutbout a week after they had their final turn. They come to our houses and tell us whether they're in or not. So obviously I didn't get in. And it was six months before they add the first episode So we all signed a contract, obviously saying that, you know, we We wouldn't talk about it. Okay. So I couldn't say anything to anybody and back then, you know, now ass signed NDM might tele a few you. But obviously I was like I was scared. like I was scared about saying the wrong thing. so I didn't say anything to anybody and I had to beg for my job back. They didn't want to give me my job back And I was begging because I was like that was it. Yeah. there was no money, you know. Yeah. was six, five, six months of auditioning just ended and then I'm back to square one. Yes. And I had no job, you know, no career. I was almost twenty one. and those were like back in those days the cut off age at which They want a puil to audition So I knew it was kind of like the end And it was never the same when I got my job back, it was They didn't cheat me did not treat me right and I can say that now. they It was different. There was a lot of ego at that place at work And there was a lot going on behind the scenes that should never have happened security guards takaking their position You know of authority to places with us girls that they should never have Pop stars was shown on TV And so every Saturday night, which was our busiest night, it had just been on TV at seven seven thirty and obviously I'm on it can't say what ideas can't say how far I went or whatever like that. And I'm at work And so there wouldd be a lot of attention and Positive attention from boys because of just seen me on TV. And it would get more and more each week. as the series went on, there was obviously IP had more And negative attention from girls and girls are nasty. Girls are really nasty U And so I had that battle every night as well. And so at that point there was a lot of I'd say wanted, An unwanted attention. It felt good be recognized for something other than just being dressed in a bikini Forgetting I was dressed in a bikini. There was this one time. We all had security men just in case people in the crowd got feisty with us because we were we were wearing bikinis and fififty quid tip. And the security guy turn over and said to me, you' halfing that with me and I thought he was joking and I can laugh it off and then When we close the nightcobe, we have to go up, we have to count our tips and our money because it' all cash based And he got me up against the wall. Annie said I meant it I want the twenty five id now. and I was was there was people around, peopleople saw it turnurned a blind eye, didn't see anything And I remember just giving them the fifty grade And and I had no I had no option but to sh to wait the next day. like I had to go back I don't remember what happened to him. I obviously complained and the fact that I was going out with the DJ. He may have said something to the manager, but everybody was So Clos and Poy. because other things were happening and that. I just cracked on. Yeah and You know, there was a lot that went on then am not just with the men who work there, with the girls Um, Yeah it was the la lot, It was nasty How did that pereriod then change you I settled. I got engaged to the DJ I wasasn't really in love I said yes because I felt important because he was important atwor And so I felt accepted I felt important myself because I was with him Oh my Godd, I've got I've got the DJJ, you know, I've got the main man And so had others. You know, there's a lot of other women who had the main man I didn't know at the time all the while you are appearing on the show and you're getting closer and closer to the finals. That's right. So then on the show then, on pop stars, you get to the final ten. And I find this very interesting because I've talked to Mileene Klass. She was in the final ten, right? And I understand what happens with her group But tell me about what happens to you And the forming of Liberty Axe. because I find this to be really interesting. I'm sure Kell is going to tell me I've got it wrong because I think I have got it slightly wrong I live in a bit of a bubble as well for so I kind of imaginine things Th differently. Okay. So how do you remember it? So I remember it as We all stayed in touch the other five because the the five and hearsay. blocked blocked us. Oh really? But even even But they were probably told that But at the time we were so. But even before that though Because I wasn int here during that. So I've only seen clips. So then the five that are then selected and whenin that group becomes hearsay. Yes. I would imagine they had a contract immediately. and they become quite popular Yeah, yeah. I mean, huge, you know, there was about six months between me being told I wasn't in and when the first one was aired. And in that six months, I believe obviously might would have had a better account of it. That's when they they went somewhere They got this together. They lint dance routines, they recorded music, they did the whole PR thing u, you know, change their phone numbers, which which I knew I knew who was in it as well because I tried to ring them straight after Nasty and Nigel said it wasn't in and obviously they weren't picaking up because their phones were. So this is where you think that they were told to block. Oh absolutely. one hundred percent. Yeah. But why? I know there was a different time period, but why I think it was just all to do with exclusivity and privacy and NDAs flying around and the fact that I don't know. I don't want to put words in their mouths. They can answer that. I don't know if they were told two. you know, block everybody, but we were And so believe or li like to believe that wasn't from then. Right. It was from the voices above mananagement because we all got on really well and And I wanted to ring Szan', you know and see how she got on and say, Ohh my God, well done. and we didn't get the opportunity to do that You know, o. And so I would imagine that wasn't on them. Okay, fair, fair So then you are thinking about what your life is now going to be, what's it going to look like? So how does Liberty X come about You know, we all stayed in touch and then the time came around where ICV wanted us to come and do a bit of press for the show as the five losers. We weren't called the five losers by ITV, but we subsequently were called that. Hence forward And I remember my memory of it is that we got together the night before We were due to do Good morning Britain on one of those shows or Lorraine And we were at Kelly's apartment and Taony pods U arranged an Irish phone interview for radio. and I remember we all started they asked us to sing. So we all sang Vidge Under Troubled Water, which was the song in which we sang at the auditions. They were like, you guys should be bandned I'm This is my fluffy memory of it. And so we were like, yeah Why not And so the next year when we were live on TV and we sang that again We, uh We said we want to be a banned. We're going to be a banned. We didn't really know what that looked like. We was like, why not? We weren't signed to ICV or pop stars. They never retained us. Okay. They let us go That was like that is that is basically the main reason why all of these Participants in these shows hencefward are contracted to intoch of their life going forward because they missed They missed it with us. Interesting. They let us go. So you're saying specifically because They missed group They missed an opportunity to micr mananage and take commission from anybody else from that process or from that specific process. So Liberty X set a precedent. and therefore everyone gets signed. Yeah, because we were, you know, told throughroughout the whole process until that moment that The losers couldn't do anything. It was just the winners. It was just those five people It was not us. We were done and that was it And so when we announced that we wanted to start it as a band, it was news to them and my fluffy kind of rainbow covered memory is that when we announced it Richard Branson was watching. the TV show we were on. I believe it was the rain, but I Kenny said it was another run And he rang Lorraine or got in touch with her somehow and said that he wanted He loved the idea of an underdog and he owned Virgin Records, VT Records and would love des signign us and And that was that day. Oh wow. And so I never left Linton. R you know, over the course of the next few weeks u Lorraine Also, the lovely Lorraine who's been with my personal journey throughout my whole whole time She puts in contact with a manager Gari who Subsequently he became Liberty X's manager that day as well. Okay And u We got management in the next few weeks who then helped financially relocate us to London until we started getting money from our advances. Yes. And we signed, you know, a major record label. That's incredible. And was that Richard Branson like overver the course of just maybe a few weeks. Yeah, that's incredible. All of this happens and'm and I'm like This is mental.. Like we all thought this is absolutely insane. L we are literally in Richard Branson's house. We are at his record label and we're doingress a press conference And he helped me upside down And Jessica, he poured champagne over her head all in this unrealistic, like distorted reality, we are living right then and it was meega That's incredible I don't know about the pouring the champagne over the head. but you get. It all sounds. I mean, what all s make it up. Yeah, you can't make it up. and also Those stories don't happen. It feels like it doesn't happen anymore. Just doesn't happen. Just you're on TV. he sees you. He's like, Hey, hey. I'm asside you to a deal. Okay. Yeah, okay. And he said, you never left London N pretty much I mean, I remember going back and grabbing myself and at this point I'm still engaged to the DJ whichich was a whole whole different thing Excuse me. whichich didn't last obviously I have Yeah. Yeah. So now I want to ask you about this is that I know that Who was it called you all the flop stars Be because that seemed like that was a title that Stuck From my memory, I believe it was hearsay. But I think it was fueled by press Okay. So ultimately, Pice. were the ones who labeled us The names. I see. and almost pinned you two against each other. Absolutely. So there was a war from the get go As soon as we really that we were going to be a band and start to release music. We were constantly battled against each other. in a world that we were trying to navigate You know, we didn't have Th those six months prior, like he they had to adapt to what was coming and a team around them. know, we were signed to an Indie label effectively. You know, we weren't groomed. we, you know, we didn't We didn't have that team. and so we felt like we were almost set out to the lions. you know, We didn't have media trainingerest It was just, I think what What the attraction was for liberty towards liberty, were only liiberty at the time. was that we were raw, and that was quite evident because we didn't know when to stop talking or or what not to say. and we were on the fact that we were able to We were able to bring our creative energy to what we put out there, which was which usually doesn't happen It doesn't happen to manufacturered bands actually, but the press Battled us and HSay off from the get go Flopsars oneannab these the five losers and it was evident that they wanted us to fail not just not just TSA as a team, but the people around them. And so that would have then stirood up the pot with the heSA members in order to, you know, add fuel to the fire when they did interviews about how They were bigger and better and we were not so And that we were running on their cocktails did How did you feel? becausecause you were these were your friends. You know, a few months prior when we were filming It felt, it felt really harsh. We didn't know how to navigate it It felt like it wasn't the five people that we met in the audition process and And along all of this, all I kind of wanted to do was reach out to Szanne because that's like one of the people that I got really close to. and and be like, how was it Like what's it like? Yes. Like I bet it's amazing. Like I really wanted to share that with her And at no point did I see what we were doing is hanging on their coattails And I have to say like my skin's not I say it's thick It was really paper thin. if it wasn't for the rest of the Liberty X members I don't think I would have got through it as well as that I did, but we had each other And and that's what made our strength, I think, as a band C you Take me through some of the highs and lows , you know, if you think about The most surreal moment. Yeah. you know, being in a pop band. Yeah, especially this is in the two thousands Yeah where there's big you know, video budgets and it was it was a different It was just you know, So different and so much fun. Yes. Like yeah, there was dark times and, you know, I was struggling behind the scenes with my hearts and and and just other stuff and Alcohol was present then, but I wouldn't have called myself an alcoholic back thenight. It was just so much fun Uh Oh God, there was so many times like we were in we were in Southeast Asia and we were attending the MTV Asia Awards and we were given an award and Rarah Cri's there and blues there, Pussycat dolls before they before they kind of reduced their size. Y. ye had black IPs Sugar babes, Gareth was there and there was just loads loads of people and we were all staying in the same hotel and we are particular rooms overlook this big pool. So we had a massive pool party night the awwards and like you've got black eyeP here, you've got a pussy cats Aussie and everyone's necking on. Oh My go. I'm not going to say no. I mean, ye, but that's a what.old hold on that Now you know I have to go there. No. D't say names. Don't say names. No, we can't. Don't say names, but let me ask this though. Let me ask there are people in that pool that I will never tell There were never in the That never came out Oh my go. you know there were no camera That's exactly what I was abouted to say. It never came out because we weren't overrun by social media back then. and that's why it was fun. L I'm not saying what we were doing was right. Oh, um you know It was just it was just never captured. What happened and the fun that we had didn't go out because there wasn't people taking pictures of it or discussing it online or it becoming something that it isn't. like, you know, it wasn't an orgy. It was just fun time. Right. But also too is in those moments, what about you know, like managers and assistants and other people, orr do you feel like because we We didn't have social media at that time that even if someone saw something It doesn't spread. Yeah, that's it today. It was quite a close knit community. Okay. Everybody knew each other It was It was when pop was great. you know, we did everything together, the radio shows, there was CDK, SMTV, Top of the popps like Kick in. I mean, all of these outlets of where you showcased your music And you get to hang out with all the same guys like the last show of SMTV were cats andunt cat and Dck. got married and it was on chums. And so it was a theory thing and they got married And Mara Carry's their bridesmaid. Goodness. And you've got Harsay on one side and you've got Liberty X on the other and you've got blue and we're part of this this wedding conongenation and we are just in that moment and then it ended And then I TV ended chums finished Gs, you know, topop the pops was coming to the end of an era. And all these shows kind of like just stopped and dropped out and then it wasn't fun anymore you know, a lot of how we promoted on music was taken away. There was downloading happening You know, you didn't have to go into radio stations anymore, and that was half the fun a radio tour And so the shift in the music industry ultimately, I think ended our career as musicians and as as, you know, as an artist. Yes,. navigating that transition in, you know, the mid to late nauies was difficult. Record companies were Folding, you know, V two was sold We went to another independent label and that didn't happen. And And so it was like a vulnerable time in that moment And and then, you know, when liberbody extended It just just stopped We just we were just together one day in the dress room after a gig and A couple of us had been drinking and it was messy. It wasn't one of our finest performances and We have become lazy and You know, a couple of us wanted to start a family and get married And we were all just tired of each other's bullshit I know a few people are tired of our bullshit and it was walkalized justust the five of us and And then we stopped. I think we had one Or two less cigs to do And we fulfill our commitments and just walks away from each other. And that was it. There was no big dramatic press conference and There was no big announcement. just We just thought nobody cared about us that much. so like Really? Yeah. yeah, we're quite good at playing ourselves down And o well, nobody's going to get a shit anyway You know Do you think they did at that time Looking back here Looking back and knowing what our music meant for people and You know, me and the two girls have been able to go out for the last nine years and perform as a three and still bring that music that we recorded all those years ago to our generation and new generation and shows me now of how important it was to those kids growing up and We thought nobody give a shit. because our last song didn't do so well and then we were dropped and then You know, our performances have became sloppy and we just thought, well, that's That' it That's it. Yeah. That's it. You know, one thing about Liberty X. And I say Liberty X because it was you were liberty. Yeah. And then was it some other group had liberty or some man group got so the subject wanted that wanted their name back. so they were liberty, so I'm sure they've used it well. And so yeah, they took us to court, you know. And then you become Liberty ex. That's right. Now I think And I don't want to even stir up more issues between you and hearsay. Oh no. But as I can see Mileen's picture in my eyeline right here. Because we love hearsay here, right? But one thing I didn't realize was how successful Liberty X was. Right? So Liberty X you have now, so achieved international success So The album featuring just a little, right That single was the ninth B selling single in two thousand two. Yeah. right. That's major. Yeah. Al the group you had ten consecutive UK top twenty singles is is is it or should I say, am I correct in saying that Liberty X sold more Ben Hearsay. Yeah, that would be correct U yeah, we did. We had three albums And we had a big massive sell out t. We won the Brit Awards for our song and what for U two album awwards and We We won an Ivan the Vella Award. And so yes. So putting it frankly, yees Ultimately, Liberty X were more successful thenen here' say I have another surprise for you You ready for? Oh got it h I it was picture. This one is coming from this side. Okay, Oh now. You have to close your eyes on this one. Okay. Okay, you trust me, trust me, close your eyes And when you open it, I would like you to read this You can open. K got upset already beautif You want me to vis it out, please I haven't got my glasses Okay Dear, Michelle. He would have read it. It's only' got the word pop stellars on it Okay dea, Michelle Who would have known when we first met at the Pop Stars audition in two thousand that we would still be pop stars in a band? together all these years later We've shared so many amazing memories together, making music our in the world and write and winning awards But some of the best things are the little things that we've shared The normal stuff, like the gossiping in the car. And the nights out and the time orr maybe not so normal actually We've been through marriages, divorces, births, deaths, illnesses and all that life throws at you together. And the fact that we still have a great working relationship too is nothing short of unbelievable. We've been so proud of during recovery Over the last five years, you've conquered some situations that most couldn't handle. And that's a testament to the strong woman that you are built an amazing life with Hugh Faith in AJ We love them too and feel blessed to be part of your life story. He's too exciting times ahead and bandmates and friends with a you Jess and C whereere those girls meain to you I mean, We've been to do so much together. And like nobody knows stuff about me Th then those gals to you know, even E like my husband, you know, my best friend's The stuff that we've gone through only only us can understand working on a great initiative with IDMobile and Mental Health UK. Sciigns tells us that hearing a voice over a call Lower our stress Boost our mood and even help us to rebuild connections So they're asking you to ditch the texts and make it a call instead I'm going to admit something to you. I'm ronic texture. I'm the worst person in the world to front this. You're not going to listen to me Why would you You might listen to someone you know. So I had an idea Flow with me on this For the next few weeks, instead of ads with me in them I'm giving up this seat right here to those people who've been waiting for you to phone them. And for the next few episodes, you'll be hearing from them instead of me So these folks will have just one ask. Ditch the texts and make it I gotta take this I know that you have had a I say tumultuous relationship with the press over the course of your career. If you could just almost give us the highlight reel of You were and down relationship with the press because There are moments that I've read where It was just It was hideous. what was done to you in the press. Yeah There's always a member of a band that the press horn in on You know, you had I suppose you had Jerry with the Spice girls and You had Rachel from S Club And you had Cerrie from Atoma Kitten. Yes. And you had Lee from Blue. Yes. And you had me from Liberty X And we were in the category of The fun one Mm The pest one And so that would be you know, in my situation, the lack of confidence I have in my ability and my talent. And it wasn't necessarily the bandmates making me feel like that But I felt like that.. And it was evident with produices and and people who we were writing with and recording with that I was Ultimately the bottom of the pile when it came to singing and that I'm not good for that So how to find a place So finding an area of which I was good at, which was going down and getting drunk Okay, I'm boyfriends was a place I felt comfortable in because I felt uncomfortable with my talent This is interesting. So are you saying that You were aware This was the brand that you were known for and you played it up I mean and willingly so. Okay. because I loved doing, you know, acting the way I was. I was I was young, I was single at the time I pads I had relationships with boys. famous man boys that were on my wall growing up Yeah L I mean, I say this a lot and I hate saying it all the time, but like Gary Lucy, for example, like Gary Lucy. Gary Lucy. gosh Oh my gosh, I know Gary. Did you take her? Yeah Well so so Gary, Gary pited me up in a nightclub, Gary did And Oh my God And we were in a nightcub and so I was like, Oh my God, it's Gary Lucy. And it was Gary Lucy. and I said to Kelly and Jessin, God, it's Gary Lucy. And I was like freaking out. L he's like my top three. Yeah. att that moment time. Yeah, yeah, he was becauseuse he was in it was a show that he was doing like the footballer. Yeah football' wives and Holly Oaks and it was just like, o my god Anyway, he made Bine for me So I'm like Yeah, o. And we had a few dates. Okay. And it didn't get too serious, but we had fun And it just didn't work out. Can we talk about Andy? Yeah. As much as you want to talk about Andy. here here's I'm sure Andy you watched this sc, No don't talk about that Yeah, right now he's saying S no. Yeah. and I haven't spoed to Andy since we divorced apart from maybe one once. Because from here's from what I know about your relationship with Andy is that it was quick marriage No A year and a half almost, nineteen months Yeah. It's a very quick marriage. T tumultuous accusations. he said she said. Yeah a lot. and then a cheating allegation. Yeah So on the cheating allegations Yeah clarify from your position what happened Okay Wow, no one's asked me that direct. Oh go. I mean Okay. That's why we need to we need a douck. ye. Okay, okay. You're right in saying that the relationship was tumultuous. It was always there had been cheating allegations do out on both parts U some true, not some not true And that was kind of both knew, didn't know, we just also wanted to be together. It wasn't real love in that aspect, but we thought it was. you know, well, I did anyway I thought it was real love The cheating happened when I was on a holiday in Mara My cheating Not the cheating. My cheating happened. when I was in Marbea. And I was out there on holiday with Briianca Gascoine Nikki Graham and Tatanyia Lloyd you know, the crew that you Remember back then in like the early Nies That all went out, you know, there was the big brother lots and best and there was we were all there for an opening of of I think it was the ocean cllub Oh my gosh Wayne Liticris Well, yeah, ye. So okay. So yeah, ye yeah, yeah. So I was obviously drunk and I snogged somebody on the dance floor in front of the world for us. Like, I mean, I couldn't have made it anym obvious And u We left together and We didn't go home together, We left together. And and so I freak I freaked out. Did you? I had to freak out, like Um like a realll comb down I think that's the easiest way to describing it. I was absolutely freaking out. And of course you know, by the time I got home, Andy and knew something. someomebody from that party tells him that I was seen on danceo snugging this particular person and then I told him we tried to work through it, but didn't try And then I think there was maybe about a couple of months, I can't remember a few months where We just went there, you know. then when we when we broke up I broke up with Andy And I left and I moved in with a friend that I had made in Ireland. and And Andy's a great guy. like I don't want to say anything bad about him because I loved him Did you can I ask a question on this? Yeah? cheating inidelity comes up quite a bit in the conversations that we have here on the podcast. And I think that there's a debate. around whether or not can love your partner and cheat on them Price How do you answer that Wow Well, I would It's a tough one. Like my husband now would say absolutely not, that's it. And I would now say absolutely not, that's it Right I did do that because I honest like, I don't know how I know how I've heard how And describes our marriage And that's not what I thought it was. And I Ths It was real The love the love. The love Yeah. Yeah. And so that thing that happened in Marba was by no means a reflection of me wanting that particular person I acted out. Okay. And it was situational It was situational I acted out. I shouldn't have done it. I was drunk. I was, you know God it's funny what alcool puts you in all these positions that you wouldn't do if you weren't drunk. was just messy and I don't really want to go into too much because it it implicates his family as well and And consequently since then, like I've really I really have A lot of respect for his sister, Lisa. we've remained in contact. Yeah. so how about this? Let's not go into to the messy piece, but how about having had that relationship Mhm What did you learn about yourself that you then took into this next relationship, which is your marriage now Um I suppose what real love is? You know, I had thought I was in love maybe four times before Andy Like I had a real of at school and and then and then and then I met somebody towards the end of that relationship d I'd be quite needy and that never serves anybody well in this industry when there's a load of them people who just want to have fun and move on. Yes Hello, my name is Daniel and I have taken this lovely seat bequeathed by Paul to tell my wife, Lydia. Love my life F my veins me. I don't care if it's you at home asking me whereet the remote is, don't care whether you're on your way back work and you're literally calling to tell me that. prefer a call It lets me know that you love me. Listen, Paul himself Relationship Goover. C call him Ugay. of relationships. He just said that phone calls will boost All the chemicals we need for extra leving, okay If you remember, Basically, our whole relationship was built on phone calls. We started dating when you went to Uni, and so we long distanced for three years We probably fell asleep on the phone together four nights out of a week. whichich was incredible and really formed our relationship. So I'm just trying to bring A little bit of that love and spontaneity back. Let me paint you a picture of the kind of call that I'm hoping that I get. Hey boo Wh are you? Just a quick one Do we have cheese? We've got cheese? Great. Thank you. I'll be home in two minutes. Even that, That would get me It would just be nice. That would just be amazing and it's ten seconds What do you think if I' wr you were not necessarily saying that they're words that you want to hear, but it's how you want to hear them hundred percent. You know, so interesting though is I think you're married to me Because I'm l, right? I'm like Jill Where's the remote? Yeah. You know, yeah, I'm super, super, super textter And you know, all the research supports what you're saying, you know, I'm just c. And sounds like Lydia does too. So Lydia she should just call you Id ofer And you know, you've inspired me I'm going to call Joe att least once today. shake I'm a call her. And shake her. Yeah, I'm gonna call. You know what, I should call her right now And of course, we're in partnership with IDMobile and Mental Health UK. We want you to ditch the text and make it Hey there. I just want to share a content warning This episode includes discussion of addiction and eating disorders. If you or someone you know needs support, we've included resources in the show notes Please take care while watching. Could you? as much as you'd like to us through you addiction in college is when you ed it do you try drugs for the first time in college? Lir speed, yeah. Could you talk about your first time trying speed I remember we were I think we were watching a play from The Allld the Year. And German base was really big back then. Yes And My friends had some and so I tried it. And wow like that when people say I've arrived, right? Pe use that term a lot. I don't really like that term Because like, like later on in life with with, you know, drugs and alcohol, like I didn't feel like I arrived anywhere. Yes. But that moment That's the closest place I can be. to to tell you I feel like I arrived You know, my heart was pounding. I felt awake I could do like study and have fun at the same time. and that was kind of course throughout my life at college along with a battle with Bingeing which I continued throughout my whole life. Okay. And but speed was the first thing that I kind of noted, didn't make me hungry Interesting. Just to clarify for everyone knows it's a street term, right? But it's amphetamine, as you said That accelerates the central nervous system to increase energy,, focus and alertness while also suppressing not just appetite but it also suppresses your sleep Yeah, off course it does. Yeah. yeah. interestnteresting. When did do you feel like you moved very quickly from casual use to regular use of speed? I would substitute one for another So I suppose after college, It wasn't something I went and picked up, I didn't call it in or you know, it was there from friends was then effphigen Ephgen. Yeah. Tell me about the Ephrogen. Ephrogen is a it's kind kind of like a speed amamphetamine.. And it was in a pill called Axanderin An xanderine is a weight loss drug Now I'm pretty certain it's banned now because it contained ephidrine So from speed, I wanted to keep the weight off. and so I went had a bit of research and then at like a local gym. and One of those that had, you know, the the back. door. What about these? you could only get them from America and I tried them and it gave me the same effect that speed did but because It was legal I was like, okay, great. it's giving me this buuzz, this feeling, it's not making me want to eat And and so that was my next thing. And then they got banned. Interesting. what year or how old are? Oh maybe maybe nineteen twenty maybe about then. Okay. pre pop sars. Okay. So I was twenty twenty one pop sars and then they got banned, but then on this corner of the gym, they sold pure effrogen tablets And so I'll then switch to African which was a pure form of what was in the Axanderine. And u and I abuse them. for many years Um Yeah, for a long time maybe about five years and I remember I stopp because I got rushed to hospital one day and and they My heart had stopped, I felt my heart stop and it was going erratic and And there was loads of palpitations and this was like this was a couple years after Liberty X started and I was with my ex husband, Andy at the time and I got rush to hospital and they found copious amounts of caffeine in my bloods and traces of of well, they told me it was trace of cocaine But I had never done cooking actually at this point in life. Okay But that's what's down on my doctor's report And so just I was like, I don't get it. And obviously they were asking, I have' done anything? And I was like, No, haven't done anything because I didn't do Coke. Sure. I haven't done anything. notot thinking about these pills that I was taking. Right. So they were obviously laced with that. and I know it sounds like a cop out, but I'll tell you all, like I did cocaine later on in life. That's why I went to rehab. like this wasn't that time. This was a moment where I was taking these pills, I was buying from a gym And and that happened and I suoped Interesting, but those pills were laced with cocaine. It must That's all I've took. Yeah. that's what I was taking to stop me from eating and And that was Michelle so that was five years. Yeah So that means I didn't realize so you were then taking kills through pop stars Yeah Okay, I didn't know that. But you were not drinking I mean, I was drinking but I wasn't it wasn't It wasn't at all my crok. It wasn't your crouk. No. so How did you move? to alcohol. Um Alcohol was always present Definitely And I loved going out And I always it's really weird like I love to hango. Oh my god because I knew that it was a day of binge So my addictions and my obsessiveness. with food. became So intertwined that it had like this thing going on whereby I would start a new diet every Monday or a new diet pills or whatever it might be, the cabbage soup diet, you know, the what was a one to one diet or whatever it was, whatever it was every single week and by Wednesday I failed binge eat And then I would go and get drunk and I'd go out and then I'd binge on my and then I'd start again and my weight was creeping up instead of getting getting less than And This was early in Liberty X as well. where I was starting to have that pattern Binge eaten. And it gave me comfort And I was outed by my manager The Liberty X video shoot for just a our biggest video. Yes. And u He said, you've f but away And I had, granted, and I knew I felt uncomfortable and Um I was the only one of, you know, the three girls in that shit to wear a dress because I couldn't fit into the cat seat And so I knew my worth I knew I just needed to be hidden. I felt like that's what they were trying to do to hide me. I'm sure they weren't, but I felt that u You know like They just wanted to hide me in this big oversized dress, but in reality You know, that was the only thing I fit in at that time And he said that to me, My Ranjah said that to me, the first night of the first day that he put on weights peoplee are starting to talk. Maybe you want to think about getting healthy or lose weight. And what that does for any addict is you do more of So I went back home and I ordered three pizzas and I bing eight. Did you that day? Yeah. So the day of the video shoot. Yeah. And I had another day the next day And knew I knew I would feel swollen. I just couldn't stop. I could not stop eating. And like I have absolutely no filter when it comes to food. I still have that today. So that the binge eating and You know, that the day of the treat day. I will go phhysically all in and and It's hard to talk about it because when people look at myself, like I know I'm not fat And I've worked really hard on myself be really happy and comfortable with my body. I love going to the gym. I love eating healthy. We don't drink anymore, obviously But I still have that on and off switch that obsession over something that makes me feel good for that split second is still there. You know, I haven't got it with alcohol and jugs anymore But I have it with food And with food, it's very difficult to switch off because it's something to you have to eat to live. Yes And so Working through that is ever so difficult. because I have triggers and the triggers could be a piece of cake One piece of chocolate bar could be another excuse like my addictions of alcohol and drugs party and eents cinema You know, all of these things were triggers for me to either call it in or getol more alcohol And so now I have the same application to feed. Okay. But then at that point, especially during that video shoot You then binged on three pizzas Yeah then do you consume alcohol or no? Not at that point no. Okay. No. So it's the binging of the food. binging of the food. And then you show up Yeah the next day. and I I actually go back on O Eetphrogen After that Interesting. You're back on the pills. Yeah, back on the pills. Okay And the' harder the source And obviously, because they're banned. Um But I didn't feel like I was doing anything illegal becausecause it's found in det poles Right Wh you can still pick up in America Yeah, but it's illegal here. But it's legal here. And you're a celebrity now. Yes. So I'm cur as a celebrity when you are acquiring illegal drugs Where do you get them from Because I mean the Ephedrine was quite easy to find from gyms So still, but but you're known and then yeah, there's pop. Oh, I wouldn't get it myself. Yeah. Okay. I know, I know like like like friends of friends and and whatever I was so unhappy with how I had stopped. this is the insanity of it, I stopped because I have a heart problem, which I have today. I actually just had a small operation And last week. I see scoring. Yeah. And this is fresh. So this is something that I had last week Song and dance about but I' sure you don't know where my thinking is in that. And then I put out all this weight and it freaks me the fuck out. And I'm being told to lose weight. and I don't know how to lose weight properly. I need to use it fast and the only way I know use it with is with drugs. Okay Is this one You start using cocaine as well Coocaine was part of my story later on in life poul It was u It was around back then It had been offered. I think I might have Tal it a few times. but it wasn't something. I was petrified of, you know, after all of this I'm petrified of drugs I'm worried that if I took that I've never done a pill right, I always worried that I'm that one person that gets that pill. and I die from one pill So howm many pill Absolutely not, but I would take efffrogen And it was it's just that's the insanity of addictions. Y. how you can validate have acceptance over one drug or alcohol, which is a drug and Oh my gos, I'd never touch that And then a lot of the time those neververs creep up on you because you're not getting the same high you are from alcohol. Okay. And then that's when Caine Ccame involved. So So it went from effphrogen to then alcohol and the alcohol you were using to basasically numb yourself to go on stage, was it? It It wasn't so much numb myself to go on stage. I just didn't numb myself without alcohol So I, you know, like I was I was fun and I was energetic and at this point I looked good and getting some good press and Like it's in a good place and so when I When I'm in that place, I'm like, well, if it's bro, don't fix it. And at this point, I had no issues with putting down alcohol. I wasn't dependent on alcohol There was no addiction with alcohol. And I say that because I know the difference now. Big drinker I You know, I couldn't perform without a jink Other than obviously five years ago to five years ago, I don't remember ever doing a gig sober a big social drink to But I never went home and drank by myself And I didn't hide it, manipulate for it, and do all these things that I then went onto in later life I'm Cooking came around when I hadad my children and became friendly with community of wealthier housewives in my area And so it wasn't to do with the music industry That moment in time, I I Tal hyerectomy att a very young age and I lost whatever I had built up for myself throughout the years I lost or my identity Everything I thought I knew by myself I had no idea who I was Howld were you well, you were mid thirties, wereeren't you thirty three. thirty three ear early thir thirty three. Yeah you have a hystrachomy and then you immediately go into menopause. Imi day What is what is that like? What were the almost when you reflect back What was happening for you How did you feel You know, when I woke up It's not like you have this severe reaction to not having hormones and you've already like I wasn't instantly different It was over a period of time that I think my husband would have recognized way sooner than myself where I wasn't myself I lost My essence, my craziness, my My get up and go, my libido I am I couldn't talk to my friends about it Not because they didn't want me to, but because I told myself they wouldn't want to I don't want to talk to my husband about it because I didn't want to feel like I was unsexy And I was I would I think the easiest way of saying is that I was just, I was numb for quite a while. on him I still want to get out of bed than one do anything So whilst I wasn't clinically diagnosed with depression The easiest way I can describe it is that before I had testosterone, I felt in a mode of depression. Yes. and I couldn't get out of it And so that definitely had it an impact and still does to this day. I was really scared And I was really sad And I didn't like myself anymore Were we scared of Michelle how I felt about myself. How other people saw me How unrelatable I was now You know, especially to my peers, my friends the unreatability stems down to the fact that All I had in my mind was menopause and how I felt And so when you're bringing that to a night out with your girlfriends It's not exactly a hot topic And I got my kick from drinking alcohol see it. I got it I really got it. L I was licked. I was It was pre COVID, so I was definitely gone before then although COVID definitely exacperated the situation and my relationship with with alcohol and jokes and um and that I found that alcohol wasn't really doing for me what I wanted it to do anymore because I was drinking more of it And how much alcohol were you consuming? U It wasn't yet at the point where I woke up and had to drink But I'd say a good couple of bottles a day of wine. A few bottles of a couple of bottles of wine. per day. W. Yeah.. If you wanted to kind of like roughly estimate it you know, sometimes it would just be spirits and But it wasn't collared with with cocaine at that point. When I say coloud and It was It started to colour it. because It was around in the area where I live. And there were other women doing what I was doing, not working husband was out all day. you know, you either got drunk and took coke or you had affair with a tennis coach at the gym You know who you are. and that was life living in the area at that point or what I thought was life. I thought there was no other option and And I liked drinking and I didn't want to give it up. and And I liked the way that Coquet made me feel U It gave me I've arrived at a moment that I hadn't in my late teens that I got from speed. From spepeed. Yes. Yeah. Yes. Yeah that alcohol wasn't given me. And so you were u addicted to alcohol and cocaine at the same time It was, it was It was, yeah, fundamentally it was. and I think like the last two years two to three years of my drinking It was my drinking and using combined. Okay. But I never saw it I I could towards the end I could see I have a problem with alcohol I knew I couldn't stop when I tried I knew I was dying. I was in hospital. I knew what the doctors were telling me, peopleeople would saying it. You tried to get me to rehab two years pre years. I didn't understand fully what an alcoholic was. I didn't have any idea. like I thought I was the only person that behaved like this. Nobody would understand. That's why I hid it alcohol was Fundamentally killing me but not cope because nobody knew So no one knew about the Coke. It was only your friends. Yeah.. And they didn't know bike really the accent. nobody knew the extent of our drinking. and and you know, and and the pockets at where I where where I could get my cocaine from. Yeah. Yeah. and and this this part intrigues me because You are at this time, you are You're happily married. Yeah. You have two children. that you're raising. Yeah You have a career Now And you're because you're working you're gigging. Yeah, right. We're gigging off the back of the big reunion. Th girls go out, we do a tour in Australia and yeah, we're giging We're working. You're gigging. Life's good. Life's good. you are a public figure. Yeah U Looking from the outside in, you have it all Yeah. Yeah, looking from the outside in, yeah. and that's how I look at other people's lives, right? It's easy to look at other people's lives like that when your is coming crumbling down And nobody can see that You know? No what was actually happening is it was all crumbling. Yeah for you. Yeah. and I didn't realize how low it actually got for you. Yeah And so you were So how do you manage that all. Like how do you consonsume that much alcohol acquire the drugs Do the gigs Be the mom. Be the wife, be the friend. How do you do it all? I was doing it all I don't know I I was doing it all, you know, with the with the cocaine thing. it's like I only I only did Cke. when somebody else was doing it too And so that's why I thought I didn't have a problem. Okay. So in my head because I wasn't using it secretly I was drinking secretly and manipulating secretly, but because I wasn't so much hiding it, like it was certain people knew I was doing cocaine wasn't An addiction in my head. Okay. I didn't see it like that because it kept because because I could almost handle being an alcoholic, even though I couldn't say the word I certainly wasn't a juke addict you know You know, you have this visual of what a dug addict looks like. and These women, you know, a couple of women that were not like that was doing it recreationally kind of meant that, oh, it's okay then becausecause they're not like that. So we're not at it So we don't have a problem And society accepts that. Did did H, your husband, know about the cocaine I No No, but yes, no I am He didn't, but he did I don't think he wanted to admit him to himself You know, I am It must be so awful for him. Beuse he could see myself, he could see that I was killing myself with alcohol And I just couldn't see it. and there will There were moments where you know I got caught Not doing drugs, but there was a wrap or there was a note with some residue becoming sloppy. And it was always because I had people over and there was a barbecue and so I would blame them. But he knew He knew it wasn't them. He knew it wasine. And of course I wasn't going to admit it. That meant face lookook to everything else You know, admitting that that meant that I had to look at my alcohol abuse. and I wasn't ready to give out. I didn't want to let go with my alcohol. And from what I understand, he also he didn't drink. No, nothing. He's never tasted alcohol before. H hasn't tasted alcohol? No, so how It whichich is mad right? I was going say How did the relationship Eespecially during that time How did it play out? Be He, As you said, he's aware that you are literally killing yourself from the alcohol He's beginning to catch you out a little bit on the drgs. gettingting sloppy and I am It's like I want to be caught It's 's the easiest way of saying it is like I'm becoming sloppy, but I'm kind of subquciously aware of it I'm aware I'm sluffy Because if I was just like if my husband or somebody just literally broke in on me and found me in this compromising position, couldn't hide couldn't say the words couldn't ask for help And now we know about addiction and since then It's veryer difficult, extremely impossible to help someone who doesn't want to be helped And so whilst I kind of wanted to be calledght I certainly didn't want to be caught. and I couldn't I couldn't say it it out loud and I was so shameful of what I was doing that likew relationship with food where I get comfort when I'm punishing myself It was like that towards the end was drink and drugs I would feel so so negatively towards myself that I was in this situation and that I couldn't stop drinking And I was being sick And it was blood And I couldn't wake up until I couldn't get out of bed and I had a drink. That's if I woke up. I would offtten not go to sleep. I'm spending money I was manipulating people in situations to get what I needed. I was lying all the time Um And so my punishment would be to drink more And our marriage only worked because he was able to partmentalize what was happening to me? and focus on the kids and himself So he was able to shut that off. And that was the only way he coped. And it sounds harsh And I hated him for it. In my mind, I'm thinking he doesn't love me He's not there for me and so I push him further and further away But the more I push him, the more I hurt him. Yes And so he had no choice W to wait until I was ready What made him wait because it's I find the relationship between you and Hugh so interesting because In many occasions, or should I say many times when you have one partner with addiction, another partner or not is the partner leaves Yeah I know. you know Be you because addiction also lends itself to other pieces and you talked about it, manipulation Yeah. You're lying to people There's money involved, you, right. And so many partners see all that. They say, I'm out. I'm taking the kids, I'm gone Why do you believe he stayed Good on C know me He saw that I was there when I didn't You know, at the time I didn't say any of that, you know, I thought he hated me and we do this a lot. We push When I say we? I mean addicts We push away what's good for us because we feel like we don't deserve it And he was too good for me And u I don't know. I know now that there were conversations he had with with friends that I've asked not to I don't want to know about them now And so there were conversations that he had with other people and my friends. that time. U while I was in the midst of it and I know that certain friends because they've told me that they told him to walk away because they saw what you were doing You know And when you when you talk about things like manipulation. What were you doing? If we knew more about our sleep, what would we do differently? Would we go to bed at a consistent time or take steps to reduce interruptions to our sleep? with Sleep score Apple Watch measures your bedtime consistency, interruptions, and sleep duration And then, every morning it combines these factors into an easy to understand score, from one to one hundred. So you'll know how to take the quality of your sleep from okay to Very high. 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Views us directed was ike, you know how we had bubbles in COVID Yes heavily manipulated to be people that I could in news with Not all of the bubbles But I I cleverly manipulated why it should be those And um And there was always a reason If There wasn't party in the garden, a barbecue, a pub visit or something like that every day that would be Absolutely and extraordinary because I would manipulate things happening to aid what I was doing so that people wouldn't look at me as if it was different So and You know, if there was a kids party say my kids parties I would have alcohol for the adults then it allowed me to drink. That's a great example of my manipulation. something good into is what I needed and manipulating other people around there just to literally do what I want to do That's a great example there. I hadn't even thought about that. Yeah. I see it. Yeah. I see it. So At that point it was all about you. Yeah, totally. Yeah. Yeah, it was all about my needs I am But how dare you say that to me? at that time at that time? Oh, Oh yeah. Oh, you say that to me. I'm fighting back. Yes. I'm full of rage I how dare you make me look at myself kind of attitude And and what do you know, Hugh? Like you've never drank before. You know, what do you know, you haven't gone through the menopause or, you know, whatever I could blame. I would blame so many things. I would blame them I would push you away. I would push my friends away You know, when they stopped inviteing me out to places, I got so angry And it was now I know obviously, you know, looking back it's because they they couldn't They didn't want to be with me while I was killing myself. Right. But they had to do something, which is why they're talking. Yeah. And so But I just saw that as them going behind my back. Okay. now did they eventually try to stage an intervention? They did. Did it work or no? No It didn't work. No. Why not I talkk my way out of it and There was a guy from rehab. There was my husband, there was my manager and And is a very close family friend and This rereatave them with A when I got home one day And there were videos on Hugh's Fm from a best mate which I refuse to watch. Okay. and u they wanted me to go with this guy who I'd never met. and go to rehab. Right there that moment and I remember I didn't like him anyway and I had it a sixth cents and Hugh didn't really like him. either and I'm glad it didn't actually work out. But the reason it didn't work out is because I talked one way out of it and I promised And at that point, I really meant it because I hadn't tried to stop at that point hadn't tried to stop drinking I looved it so much. that I didn't want to stop or try So when I was caught out and this was a real thing And I didn't want I didn't want the public to know I didn't want anybody to know Th of the public know it I was an alcoholic g drug addict was just too much and I thought I'd never work again You know That wasn't so much my thinking then. maybe that was When I went to rehab But it was just Okay I need to do something now I need to worry up. I am dying. L the doctor told me my liver is in a bad shape, but at that point hadn't told I hadn't been told it was failing yet. Okay. So I got told that I needed to reduce my alcohol intake not stop. So I was given all of these little lights And so I was able to, well, actually, okay, if I do what the doctor said Let's do that. I promise, Ill work on it. I want to be better and we kind of worked out. I said, No, you don't need to show me those sad videos. I get it, it's fine And just what I do with everything Let's just crack on. Yes and um I tried tried that half bottle for about a day and And the obsession was So on me. That I just that I think that was the first time that I bought a bottle of ork and a neckar to that point, I was test my stomach good to that point I drank vodka, nise, yeah, sure. but like shots. So then I could excuse it. you know, it's done in a mixer. I take tvels. Y what's the point in having a touble when you can have a trouble U and so I could disregard the amount of vodka I was drinking at that point because it was always mixed But I think that that that week definitely after I started to try to get better. I couldn't. I was craving alcohol and the strongest thing I could think of was vodka And I bought a cheap flask of vodka and I ded it And it hit the spot You know, cocaine was around, but it wasn't every day. It was there sociably if I wanted it, I knew where to get it, if I needed it Vodka In that moment became that next two year relationship with the Vocka Ball. Oh wow. becausecause I got that hit that I had been looking for And I was chasing That hit that I had that day Every time I tried to stop, I couldn't And every time I tried to stop, I was sick I felt better when I drank alcohol absences of not drinking, whether it be an hour or a couple of hours because it was never a day I would feel physically sick And when I drunank it steadied me and I felt better Now that's a drunk That is old school in the AA literature All those old stories from Bill Wilson back in like nineteen forty four That was a real drunk I'm that person But of course I couldn't see it But I'm now emulating the exact same behaviors as what my visual of an alcoholic looks like without being the visual. Yes You know? Yes under I remember there were many points in that where I just didn't want to wake up. didn't want to be here anymore cann see your way out couldn't stop Hs up And I couldn't ask the help I couldn't and I couldn't and I couldn't all these couldn't and I knew I was killing myself, and so I thought one day I'm just gonna die I had no fight left Like It's all well and good looking back and oh my God, I've got my beautiful husband and my beautiful children. But A c'll strip me away of Of all of that It stripped me the ability to care That sounds really harsh But that's what we got idea of what alcoholds it. Yeah, that that's so I mean, you can see how insidious abbsolutely. Alcohol and drugs are because here you are someomeone who You love your partner you Lo your children Dare I say in that moment You love the They would not. Absolutely yah. In that moment, I loved that Commo. That's the best way of putting it. Yeah needed it H I got down on my knees and P to God It was just I was just crying up. then becomes turnurning point for you Yeah, u It was a really rough week this particular week and I had a really b bad night out in London with some friends and it became hostile between us and And it was just I don't really remember much You know, like towards the end every I was I was just drunk One day is the next and it was all a big blur and whether I was going out or not I would have drankk Copious annnce beforehand And I remember arranging A couple of days stay at a friend's house and Katie Price. being one of my good friends was meeting me there and we were going to hang out for a couple of days and Heate's not great at keeping up with promises when it comes to showing up to sings. She's either late O she she just doesn't come. And so I was like, she's never going come. I was like something else is going to come along and I'll just have a phone call with her instead. I was like, Oh, she's going to be late. And I remember showing up to my friend's house and I was in a rough way and him And I continued to drink that day and the house wasn't even drinking. And I was drinking everything that she had. She had an array of things and Okay it's going to come soon. we're going Have a great night, you know And and she shows up. and on time And u I'm like, great, we've got more drinking time and no, no, no, that that wasn't That wasn't what I got from Kate and I don't know whether she hads wrot to Hugh or whether she had a sixth sense, but she had a feeling I needed help And she said that it was a good feeling and she brought her she had written in the priory She had just came out of rehab. That's right, That's right. I remember she was on. we talked about it. And I was a mess and I said, A you're not drinking? She says, No, I'm not drinking anymore. and It was like the old Kate was there in front of me, but I was then this person that I don't even recognize. I see. And I recognize her, I recognize it's Kate Kateie. that's who I was friends with at the beginning in life and that's who I've known for all these years. and This is the cate when she's not drinking and And I was like H had fucky dinner And she's like she ran out all these questions that she got tos in the Priary and I answered yes, yes, yes to every single one of them world crying and drinking. And drinking and u S Ball Roin in what would be then I My last drink So She took me phone off me and Brown Hue told him She was gonna get me and appointments go to rehab And I'm freaked out And and he's he's kind of met in one hand go in I asked her to do that two years ago. Yes. Why now Why with Kate? and clelearest way I can put it now is that He had something I didn't in that moment in time which was sobriidety And I wanted to know how she did it And so that made me intrigued because She drunk like me. Right, Right And so If she could do it, maybe I could do it It was The support I had around me and my husband and my friends was always there. Yes, but they weren't like me So in order to kind of wake up and listen and see what you're doing You have to be confronted with the same someomebody who's like you who's now living a better way of life And that is it could have been Kate, it could have been anybody But I was never in a position where I was with somebody who was an ex alcoholic or an alcoholic or drg addicts. Right I was never with those people because people that I drunk and may be used with Put it down Like that's crazy for me. And from there I had It was a worldld win of forty eight hours. I had three Gardian angels over that forty eight hours. and I don't speak about the other two Kate got the ball rolling. Yes. My friend Jackie kept the ball rolling for me She helped me financially and supported me and my family through a lot of times. And she's still one of my best friends today and I've been able to repay her in other ways And'm then a hadad Vichelle, who's my bestie. who took me into a home knowing the sate that I was in. Noing I didn't, I couldn't go back to my house. For that night before winter wehab because I would have talked my way out of it Wh is it the time I hue So it as M not wanting to go back, I think But my friends saw it as you're gonna convince Hugh, you're alright if you go back home Wow, so you thought you just didn't want to be back home. Yeah. Okay And I thought he didn't want me there anyway. Yeah. But it actually it was my friend who saw that if I went home, she knew I'd talk myself out of it took him out of it and She took me to the priory She delivered me on the doors with her child in the back seat shoes Yeah, she was just amazing And I took my last drink at her house. And it was so sad. I stopped the night before So when I knew I was going into rehab, I actually stopped And I didn't drink that night That's the first time in years. but I just thought the. And I stopped I remember I was so ill that night And then the next morning as I'm getting ready to go in the car to leave pick up it Pink gin, pink gin, I hateated gin D was I didn't even drink Din when where I was desperate For some reason, this shiny bottle of pink gin just And I saw it and I felt like I was going to die And so I downned it And her son walked in and said, Im T Michelle You'm not meant to be doing that. And that was low and u And then I got in the car And and, you know When I arrive at rehab, when I arrive at the prary It was difficult because I never got to say goodbye to the kids or Hgh And he was starting a new job at the time and it was just It was just the most unal time in in married life that it could be for me to have took F weeks out F Oh, four weeks. Yeah. Wow But I was I was very lucky that H He didn't he didn't open U to me the chaos that was happening you know, with having to get my mum down from Gates I said to come look after the kids so we could go to work and And that call that he had to make to my mom, my momum had no idea of anything. That's right. She had. No idea that I was Bad If someone believes they are facing addiction right now. They're battling I'm not sure. Yeah What would you like to say to them You know what? I think one of the most helpful things that I had and I did this after K out of Rehab was I think is on the AA websites or one of the affiliations for the twelve step programe because I followed twelve seep programs. Okay. is there was like this really long questionnaire. It was quite a simple questionnaire and u You know, the questions are things like, have you ever lied of how much you' drank I mean I'm sure almost ninety nine percent of us could takeick that box, right? Yes. And then there's like Have you ever manipulated a situation to get what you want I think if we're all honest,ight,, percent of us have done that. And so and the questions went on and the question was, have you ever hidden alcohol? so that you can drink it. Have you ever drank it alone? Have you ever shut yourself off so that they can continue the party? And then these questions become more relevant to people who are maybe on the brink of alcoholism. And before you know it, you kind of takeick them all that was what happened to me H you had bad consequences And the consequences for me were getting bigger and bigger daily Can I show you something Yeah that I think youll love. Okay, you ready for this? Oh gosh. Thank you I you're going to love this What's happening in that photo right there Tell me about that photo. Um I think this was five days before I got released from rehab And I was doing really well And you brought the kids he had brought them a couple of weeks before that loop It wasn't pleasant for them And I understood that You know, mummy's in this big hospital and But I was doing really well and I looked so much oldldier and these are on the steps of the priory For me this Pets are just everything in my life That's important to me And the reason why I went to rehab I and just it It screams Just love, fave, just love. I think that I just see lots of love Just a heads up, this next part includes discussion of suicide. If you or someone you know needs support, we've included resources in the show notes Please take care while watching With the hysterectomy, there's someone very close to me who is going through trying to figure out if hysterectomy is the right thing for her. Okay. And I'm involved in this process. So from what I know now is that when you have that removed, you're talking about overnight testosterone, progesterone, estrogen. Yes. stops. Exactly. Yes. Yeah, exactly. And while that was articulated to me, I didn't understand it . I didn't think about it. I had just had a so I had so timeline wise, I knew I was BCA two positive, which carries an eighty to eighty five percent risk of breast cancer and thirty to forty percent risk of ovarian cancer I was pregnant with faith when I found out I could have it And then as soon as she was born The midwife in the hospital said, do you have any you know, have you inherited any genetic disorders? And I remember my dad saying, Oh, am I have this from him? put the letter away, didn't even think about it. And she looked at me stony and just was like You could have passed that on to your daughter. you really should think about getting tested. This is the two variant Sorry. This is the Rcket two variant. Yes. Okay. because also too before you coming in and I was doing my research, I had no idea about the Broca One Brca I. Okay. Yeah. And I find this to be fascinating. Yeah. So and correct me if I'm wrong here, but We all have Baca one Braca I. Yes. But there's a variant And that variant, if passed on, then it dramatically increases. That's correct. The likelihood that that to a woman that these cancers are more likely Yes. And they also take into consideration It's The other women in my family had these cancers So you're not just tested randomly, you know, I was offered the test because my dad had the test after his mum died of ovarian and breast cancer And her mom also had them I see. So there's a direct link I see. And that's how I got offered the test because my dad was positive And so I I decided to go for the test. faith was couple of weeks old. and u I remember we me and my husband just a baby and we went to get the results and And it was it was positive. and before before she even When finished her words, I had already decided what I was going to do If it was positive. I al knew it was going to be positive Of course it was was I was like, yeah, of course I've got it. Not like a poor me attitude, but like Of course I've got it, you know And this is just this is another thing And so I was like, rightight, when can I have my double double masectomy And so literally put the motion in track with that. Like I obviously had discussed it was Huue The risks were really great, especially at my age they, um They can't tell you what to do. They can recommend You should be looking at. But the risks, if I can just underscript because this is also I think anything this is such important information for everyone is that so a person who inherits Brokaan or baka two variant. has a fifty percent chance of passing that variant on to a child., rightight And then the Braca variant dream. increases your risk of breast cancer between of getting breast cancer between fifty and ninety percent. So fifty percent fifty to nine percent higher people without Yeah and we're already living in a world where You know So many people are affected by cancer Yes. and then on top of this one in four hundred people have faulty Broka one or Brocka jeans So I can now understand the position that you're in. immediately you find out you think I'm going to have a masectomy, which is the removal of both . But now did you Consult with anyone No, didn't talk to anyone. Now I I mean, obviously like there was pamphlets and when they told me about it, they they They talked through my options And but I was very, you know I wasn't visually prepared For just this, let's just get it done This is before I had AJ, my second child And let's just get rid of the risk. L like I'm in that emotional just given birth moment where I'm looking at faith And I'm thinking first of all, I could have passed it on to her Now and also I don't want her as a young child to go through watching her m. what my dad did with his mom and so forth, what I looked like after it was in no way a talking point of the procedure. It was a new way. I mean, can we spend a moment on that because I understand the risk that you're calculating And I'm not a woman. Yeah. so I can't fully put myself in your shoes, from some for someone who placed so much value external validation. how her body to her to have a mastectomy seems to be a major. decision The time. I think I was You know, there wasn't a career anyway. you know, at that point, I was being a mum and I wasn't gigging There wasn't any LibertyX girls or anything like that at that moment in time And u I think I was just in a content, happy place. oververruled by emotion because I've just given birth That I just made it it on an emotional decision. Okay and didn't think about the consequences and I know I definitely made the histstirect to me on an emotional choice and I definitely didn't think about the consequences in that decision I knew that going in with the double masectomy that M There was a risk that I would wake up without without anything. H they found anything in their like, you know, cancer cells, or anything at all that they thought that they needed to you know, further investigate. So I knew that there was a big risk there But what they did was they were able to reconstruct our breasts And what they used was a small implant And they used something called Status is a kind of like lot's of a wayays of doing it, like Made up flesh is probably the best way that I could describe it so it's they make flesh like substance because after the masectomy, doesn't m sex me, there's nothing there. It's just it's just the skin, right? Yes. So they have to build up around this implant. You can't just put an implant in without having any flesh around it. And so they were reconstructed And so I woke up with what looked like breasts. Okay. and Yeah. so I mean You know, that was That was done and Is that okay I didn't talk to anybody. Faith was young packed on you know, had the had the scars there. And u I had no feeling in my breasts. I didn't even think about the consequences. breastfeeding if I had another child I had it done and then within a matter of months The opportunity for Liberty X to be reunited for the big reunion came along And then I was back out until I So When you had your hysterectomy Did you talk to anyone wereere you aware of the consequences I was u Me and my husband were looking at having it done and what options that we had One of the options was keyhul surgery to get rid of just the ovaries, which was what was going to happen And I remember we were We were deciding whether to try for any more children goo ahead And I think like I had, you know, just I was just so fearful I didn't know which way to turn. anyyway, we were We had a moment on our couch at home M in here One moment And we actively were trying not to get pregnant becauseuse I was on tour Things were going great. I had a Christmas tour going we made every precaution necessary to not get pregnant on I found out I was pregnant two weeks later. with AJ and compleompletely unexpected veryery blessed to have got preent so quickly Both were faith was the first St try and So veryy blessed and we saw as a sign calm things down for a bit and and have this next child and and then maybe look at getting it done And so then I went in a plan mode, which is what I do and just plan things out and I knew when AJ was coming You know, I had to have a C section because I had an emergency C section with faith because of my heart. Okay. And so we didn't want to run the risks So faith you C section because of the risks involved And so then that was told that's what I have to do for AJ. so that I knew when I was happening them, I knew up date And then six months to that date I had booked in my hysterectomy And so I knew even before AJ was born that was that was our plan, that was my plan gettingetting this done, getting that done. and that's kind of how it dealt with things. and I had a really rough time with AJ and They put them on my chest to nuzzle. and I couldn't give him any milk. on him. You know what the most natural thing in the world And I hated breastfeeding faith that anyway, so I was like Sow video But in that moment I totally forgot that I couldn't breastfeed And he stops crying. And I'm like off give anything. And then you know, he was using the bottle and it was it was different and It was really hard on him And he gets sick? You get some meningit S meics I don't want to say, o I'm going to blame myself, but I knew I could fundamentally blame myself for a wnderent So with meningitis, it's an infection of the protective membranes around the is the brain and the spinal cord and if not treated It can cause sepsis permanent damage to the brain and nerves. and now I can connect it with your health history thinking that you are in part, which You know, you're not You know you're not Do you still feel this way today Michelle D do Do you still feel this way today I we would'll never know right? That's the thing Like you can't tell me I was'ons. Okay. Right? Well, well can we unpack something then? What I feel like you were saying here is that You feel as if you were a cause to this um, you know, to to to the meningitis. that AJ had But do you also realize you are the cause of the life that AJ had id you know that Do you realize that? No And When you become a parent, You question every day Right. Yes constantly question myself and agJs No, like he's coming to himself, like he's flying Um, But he has he has dysx here as well And he's got he wears glasses ththough he does wear contacts now And so all of these little things That has occurred in the LJ's life. Yes An Okay, I understand it doesn't doesn't bear down to I couldn't give him my breast milk. I get that I do understand the difference However The meningitis. was more likely to be a cause of these other things And he got meningitis because he had a weak immune system could not give him ultimately the right vitamins and minerals for my breast milk because I had chosen to have my breasts taken away And that's where it stems from. And you chose to have your breast taken away so that you could be alive for your loved ones. and I get that. Yeah. but I u Easier to blame myself than for pity. Yes And I see a pattern slame throughout your life But I think grace is such a powerful misunderstood word, right And it's one of the most comompelling, important things that we can give ourselves And I think the question, the big question that you have to answer, and let me ask you this is When you decided to have the masectomy uh, when you just let's go back to that moment What strikes me is you said you didn't consult with anyone, right Did you? do the best you could the time with the information you had. Yes Yes. Th you give yourself grace. That's it. He you did And I know you did Do you know more now Absolutely Are you more aware of consequences? Are you more aware of what you could and couldn't do Absolutely today. That moment, you did the best you could with the information you had And for that you give yourself grace AJ in faith right now. how old are they IJ is twelve and faith is fourteen. Right Yeah. They are twelve and fourteen thriving Yeah. Can I give you the surprise? Oh Godd, I don't know if I could take anymore I want you to take a look at this Okay H mum' so proud of you and everything you've achieved over the past five years. You're the best muma me love hanging out with you and even though you're crazy.'s sporting You B My God Oh they are so cute. I love it. They're like they're like auditioning for a roll on a silver They haveve taken that request very literally. I can see that. You know I was looking at this I say, you know what They are actors like Yeah that they are actors. They That's what they do. They are actors. I mean, HA is come on so much. Look how can change You know, look how beautiful life can be This is a big week for you. It is. Yeah. Yeah, I turned five years clean is over. There you go. This week, thank you very much. Yeah. And five years ago, I understand, Hugh wrote you a letter. Yes And this is you entering the priory. Yeah for what I understand. Y Uh and that had a profound impact on you. Yeah. ye. And Hugh has written you another letter This is it And I'd love to read it to you if I could because I remember that letter he did in the Priary And it's a 's heartbreaking I become that woman So this is what he has just written to you Okay M Michelle. F years ago I wrote you a letter from a place of fear in pain, hoping You would find your way back. Today I write from a place of pure pride. in love. You faced every demon and every challenge rebuild trust given our family back the warmth We'd almost lost I've watched you come back to the woman I always knew was there Resilient, kind, a little crazy And an incredible mother Our kids look at you now with admiration Kning their mother is the strongest person in the room You didn't just overcome addiction claimed your life and you've made our life full of love and happiness again everyvery day I'm grateful for the laughter we share, the life we live. And most of all to the woman you've never stopped being My soul mate We love you endlessly And we're so proud of you loveove I love how he ended it Y tw Do what to say? Look at this. Your swat Oh my God he did that? I call him a twine, I guess. Oh Oh you do that's the kind of uship that we have, like is's a right twire D he never put his seat down his twat.. That is your love name for him? Yeah, That is so true. I didn't even think about it. my love language for H, you're tat go. Oh my God. look How beautiful is he? I love that either that was a big typo Soer either I find him funny or he's gonna be deastated I'm going to give this to you when you. amazing. Thank you so much. How you like these gifts? Not bad? Yeah the gifts that keep on coming. And I mean right now I can't see straight. So all of the emotion and the tears have there. Yes. It's alling be ride up. I tell you, it's been a lot. Yeah, We have gone on a ride up. Wow Are you ready for the final question then? Oh gosh, God no.'s the final question. There's one more question. Do you want one more question? What do want eat? Olandos me stop Yeah, I know. Are you hungry? That's the question. I'm always hungry. All right, the question is this, everyveryone gets it You've had you definitely, Michelle have had incredible conversations throughout your entire life. whichich one stands out the most memorable Who was it with Did you learn Oh my gos the question is you know, who's What's the most important? conversation that you've had You know, other than like the obvious like with my kids about my alcoholism and my husband about what went on other than That kind of stuff What's been the most impactful and what have I learned from it then I would whole heartedly say this today. Like I've done podcasts before, I've spoke openly about things Undem But there's been moments in here that I didn't even hadn' he acknowledged Um, or spoke about or felt comfortable to So Being in the presence of someone who's made me feel comfortable has allowed me to open up And that's not often You know I'm comfortable with my husband But I wouldn't just you don't just sit there with your partner and and have really deep meaningful conversations all the time. you very rarely do. There's not enough time in the day anyway And And I think what I've took away from this and what I've learned is that It has been a colourful life I am There's a lot that I hadn't realized. that I hadn't dealt with and what that might look like in the future, I need to look at myself on him And also just how blessed I am Like it, you know, all these things that we've listed and all the things that's going on with my heart and whatever you know, like, I I am ultimately've come away from this, not feeling poor me like ye, I've had a shit show, but Like just how lucky I am I? I got to date Gary Lucy and I got to I got to I got to be a pop star. Yes. And I got to marry the man of my dreams and I have two points. wasas a two point two children, you know, and I've got two dogs, I've got two labradors We've got a beautiful home. We've got a gym in our garden And and I've got I'm in a relationship who fully supports me and who still looks like Paul Walker and he's gorgeous. And I get to do this amazing thing. like Iike I'm so lucky I know I am. I'm so lucky. and all these things in life And I say it to people who have gone through tough times, you know, they're all meant to teach you something and it's hard to take your own advice, isn't it So like I can say that to someone and make them believe it. and then I'm like, what's the meaning of that? Yes. However, I do believe everything for a reason. That's one thing I do believe in I believe in those God moments. I do believe in a higher power, whatever that might look like. notot a religious god per se, but as a mother nature as a fate Everything happens to a reason in that order to make you the person that you are today. And I believe I was able to unearth some of those things today because of What's happened in my past? Yes Definitely and I thank you for that tell you, I am honored You just said And I will just add one You talked about how rich your life is because was I was telling you how I consider your life to be a rich life and Um all these incredible relationships that you have but you are also looved Thank you. You know what I mean You are loved and adored by us. and we all want you. to continue to shine your light. Thank you so much. Yeah. Thankk you. Yeah. It's been an incredible conversation It's been a lot. It's been amazing. it's been emotional and I want to thank you for getting some things out of me that I didn't think I need it and But also you show me those little things, right? The surprises, like whilst I've seen that photo before and I've seen that photo for You know, the words that they express in the letters, especially, you know, Kelly and Jess and Hugh. Yes Even if they say that every day you don't hear it Well, guess what? You get all of these? Yay. You get all of them. Oh I can't wait to reing it. Oh by the way, Jessica from Liberty X adores you. Oh my goodness. Ell. Oh my gos. She wanted me to specifically say she loves you. Oh my goodness. And everything that you do. So I promiseed her I would say that. Well I greatly appreciate it Absolutely I knew I would I may not have had the exact struggle. I've had the exact dilemma or friends and family have And so To me, she's such a rock star And what I mean by rockstar is is that She was a rock star, you know, she was she was a pop icon and continues to be a pop icon but she's gone through so much turmoil but become better as a result to me is it's beautiful Now hearing about her life you know she's had some of the most challenging, therefore profound conversations. and for her to say this is one of those among those many is only feel honored You know, And I think it speaks to everything that we do here and we try to do podcast and hopefully people who watch will take this into their lives, especially with it being mental health Aareness Week. It's so important that we have these conversations It's so important that we learn to hold space for our loved ones so that they can feel heard and make can feel seen And that's what eventually helps us to feel whole I walked in on my ex with a famous person on my birthday. My life literally just broke apart very, very publicly. Who was it with? That'll definitely get your lawyers in a old pickle. And it was overnight fame selling millions of records. The music industry is the Wild West. I' been screwed over by agents, managers stole the money. So who do you trust at this time? O each other. And it was heartbreaking because I didn't want it to end. Can we talk about relationships? Okay, let's go there. I asked him why he wouldn't sign the prenup. I was just crying my eyes out.' wedding Why was the divorce so contentious? I was like, just please don't take my money. just pushed this little post it note across the table with the figure he wanted Let's talk about son. your new man. I had a new lease of life. At what point did you feel as if this could be my partner The image of my baby floating down into the dark will haunt me t the day I die. Every year it felt I was pregnant and every year I lost a baby. It's just torture. So many women don't get to hold their babies. In order to make change, it doesn't happen in clinics. It happens in Westminster. Your advocacy has resulted in you having an MB Mileen, you are a national I'm Gyn Washington, host of Snap Judgment the award winning storytelling podcast from KQED. Every week, Snap deals a new card. girl whose sister was a monkey. orr the man who lived in the woods for thirty years, or even the woman who snuck her lover out of prison in a dog cage Any card. T'sap to listen now to Snap Judgment from KQED on Spotify Pandora jewelry brings the sparkle to your summer. Now with even better prices. Enjoy up to fifty percent off select styles, from personalized pieces to must have favorites made for the summer Timeless designs that shine with you through every moment, whereerever the summer takes you. Sop in store or online. now through july sixth. Terms and additition apply. 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