A Deep and Lasting Bond

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There was a challenge with you eating during that time. I was just so tightly wound. I'd just sit down to eat and I'd realize that my body wasn't going to let me do it But I secretly auditioned for the voice. And it was a direct consequence of that that Celebsgo dating came along, and then the jungle. I've noticed it with Celebsgo dating. We can just empty our souls to each other. Empty our souls. Empty our souls. Empty our souls. It's time for to leave already, you know, it's time is it. But can I talk about my biggest gripe with Celebsgo Dating? Ep do. My biggest gripe is Oh my goodness me Hey there, beforefore we begin the episode, I just want to say Thank you for choosing We need to talkal Doing this podcast is one of the greatest joys of my life And I want to continue to share it with you. So hit follow and the bell icon. It takes just a second and it helps us to continue to grow this podcast You knew when we met and We went out into Brixton together and First lady buttonhold you in the park. and said I have to talk to you about your podcast because It's changed my life. And then we left the park and you were button hed again by somebody who said, I can't believe this. You're in my ear here And in my retina there? Yes.. And I thought, oh This is either side of the box. I think it's a boon. It's surreal. It's surreal. It is surreal. What has happened here? U I've begun to understand why. we have had the most phenomenal guests Yes. O who have not toold their story Eespecially s I'm a celebr Have you sat down to do a long form interview. No. No No, and I don't really, you know, are desysposoming. I do over use that word, I have to say, but it's just such a good word. It is, it is and no one else uses it. No. And you know, people automatically know what it means that it's sort of getting things off your bosom or your chest and But it's just just wed. It is, it is, it is. you know, so on that though of not being in a position where you have disbosomed before . I mean this is a compliment, but it sounds smaty when you say it. Really? What you say it? When you say it? Desbosomed? Yeah, I think it's something about your basso prorofundo garlie. just It makes me oscillate a bit Oh look. I'll try to refrain. Here we go. say Yeah, you started this. I know. I know. And I told you, I made a solemn pledge on the way here. No smut. It was a pure smut embargo. And you broke it the moment you wk into the studio. It's blown on a zephr Int the Blue mountains, never to return. N. Farewell, smart embargo. There you go, there you go. Somebody on your lovely team just asked when did we? meet and you were saying it's just nudging nine years ago. Yes. And I remember it. It is indelibly seared on my mental retiner because I remember when you came down those stairs into the bowels of that restaurant.es. And we had that first sort of pre filming supppper together to get to know each other a bit and What Can't forget is you have something that I've always aspired to have, which is a kind of a corkscrew gaze, I call it, when You look beyond my countenance into my Very so and it is It's a very disarming thing, but it's also a deeply flattering thing because you instantly feel like you matter beyond all possible measure You know, it's really I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of people I've met that can do that. You know, this is precisely what you do No, no, no. It is. it is, it is It is. You know, I think we have to set a few rules here. Yes, Okaykay Okay. Yes. I think it's important for us to do some rules. Okay. You know I think the rule, if you agree with this. Yes, I think One rule Yeah is that If you are complimented Tom Reed Wilson You must sit with it. All right, but is that two ways for? No. Because it's not your podcast. So you can't do it. Oh my goodness me. But you have to sit with it. I'm not saying that you have to agree with it. Okay, but you have to allow it to sit and percolate. For just a moment. All right, I'll do it. Can we go back Yes, and look at Little Tom. Little Tom. Little Pety And believe it or not, most extraordinarily, Little Tom was much the same as Bak Tom. No way. Which is sort of, I mean It must have been very precocious, it must have been awful. My parents met in rural Berkshire in a school called Bradfield College. Okay And my mum was wonderful actor And then my dad, who was one of the youngest teachers, caught her eye And they sort of Passionate L love Affair and I was the product. Look at that. I suppose When I was about five My parents things were getting a little bit City dicey in the marital unit. So they decided to go to the other really big school in the area which was Pangbourne College. which is a nautical college. Although it wasn't officially a nautical college when I went there Oh I'm fast forwarding now, but we lived there and so they thought it was probably logical that I should go there And u Yeah at slightly dicey relationship with it because You know, I had polished cannons every day and U in March, it's where I became keenly aware of prejudice and the juncture at which I did too. Interesting. And I think this is u The fact that both of us feel that prejudice is anathema to us I think it arrived at about the same age because I know that you know your young life in Jamaica, Queens, you know It was sort of It was vibrant and there was RundyMC and VP records and all the stuff you've told me about. And then then you went to S Carbor and suddenly you were keenly aware of prejudice. And I was about the same age when when I became very, very aware and my antenna shot up because it was Very difficult in a nautical college to be anderogynous and as I was, which is as I am. Yes, yes. So this was this must have been Ely teens Yes, Okaykay. Yes, it was. So yes, so same period for me Yeah early teens were beginning to really think about our identity. Yes. So early teenses, you were in aautical It was. I was And And actually to answer your question, that identity It was very organic, but it was a very curious journey to it. And I suppose it was intersection and the cocktail of influences which were very curious for a boy of my age. Okay, which were? Which were my dad who He couldn't, he just it wasn't in him to talk down to children. You had to sort of try and rise to his heady heights. But what he did do, which I thought was lovely with us, was that U if he did stumble upon an etymological fascination for example, then he would try very quickly to catch up with himself and make it into a story. So you know, if we were in the park and we saw a squirrel He'd say, A squirrel, Siaaura, the Greek of shadowy tail. But then he would say because that Feather bot tale dances in the lightight and makes these neebulous shadows. and so then There was a little story for us to cleave to and I loved it. I absolutely loved it. and it's the rabbit hole I've never climbed out of. Yes, yes. I didn't realize that your love for etymology came from your father. Oh yes. Oh. o. Absolutely. then Couplled with that, he does to this day what I call a sort of dance of the synonym. We recently had lunch and K He said Oh, Sunny Jim, that was lovely, but all too brief, short lived defphemeral fleeting and disket. And it's like And it's what I feel about words. It's It's I'm just gonna chew and chew and chew until I find The one satisfies those sort of untapped pockets of my mouth. you know it's very it's almost sensual It's intellectual at all. it's a It's very physical thrill. It's interesting to me, it feels like I grew up very much as an adult Yes with The exception And I suppose this feeds into the other element, my sort of my androgyny and my taste Um because romantically, sexually, I was very, very Green. and I had no context for my sexual identity I remember Vividly being aroused watching the Gladiators when I was about five. Okay. And I didn't know what I didn't know it was arousal. I just knew it was sort of a nice feeling in my home entertainment center. You know. And I sort of thought, oh, I'd like that feeling again. But it was years and years before I had any context for it. And then what happened was, I think B musicals actually funny enough And here were these sort of wonderfully dynamic, zestful strong women And I loved all of those elements of them, but they were also the recipient of rather delicious men's affection. and I because I had no Q frame of reference all and in my life or in media. Yes. Always imagined being there And I mean, I I You must have watched brief encounter with Divine, Celia Johnson teen times, at least before I was thirteen. Before you were thirteen? And I mean, it was a bizarre frame of reference. Ifra of. thirteen year old has ever wased? No, no. I would get lost. I'd get utterly lost. I'd forget I had a corporeal being. I'd just be completely in it I think we view identity differently as a child than we do as an adult, but it's in that adolescence period all the way through to early adulthood that were we're struggling with Wh Who do we believe we are? Who do we believe we are?? Yes. That's very true. And the word actually that's in that group along with identity and individuality, which I door. A door, but it's only really used disparaging me is eccentric because I'm often described as eccentric and Uh I love the word. And I love its etymology because it comes from the Greek Ec Kentron out of the center or away from the center And I think O silver lining of being at a difficult school where, you know, there there was um There was a lot of bullying and it was uncomfortable But what that makes you do, I suppose is you think, who What must I cleave to here because This is what seems to upset them about me But it's arrived in me. I haven't ask for it to come, it's just sort of bubbled up in me in a sort of Vesuvian way and u And I can't rememove it So Therefore, you have and this was It sounds like it was an epiphany. It was a very long coch tail. but you think therefore, I need to find a way too celebrate it. It's it's It's the only way I can survive is to is to celebrate it. Can I ask though because I find this to be very interesting because you're still in your eararly teens at this point Yes. Okay. so at this point What I believe many teenagers do is they figure out how can they reduce themselves? How can they hide what makes them exceptional How do they? pull back H osed to me celebrate. Especially when you're met with resistance and bullying So as much as you want to say is can you talk about what that resistance was. that you were getting, what that was. And then also, what do you believe it was within that allowed you to celebrate opposed to ide Well Uh The resistance Mercifully was never and Violent It was a constant Constant barrage of Verbal abuse I was very lucky because in my immediate orbit, I had the friends and we were terribly close And we were all oered one reason or another We had strength in that little unit And it really helped us survive. And something happened Um when I was sixteen that kind of made us all politically aware at school and it was sort of hot debate And it was the time I sort of came out really because there was a wonderful Um Anglican Reverend called Reverend Jeffrey John And he was nominated to be Bishop of Reading, and I believe I'm right in saying this might be wrong But I believe I'm right in saying that he would have been the first G. Bishop So suuddenly it wasn't just Rading Ns or Berkshire News, it was national news news So it was through your desire to see this human being treated as a human being. Yes. that that inspired you to come out Yes, and also it was U It was a wonderful that selfishly It was a wonderful sort of f dress rehearsal, if you like for coming out because I could test the water U Let's see with and see where they were politically. I see. And I found to my delight that My parents had had long divorce by then to They were both. pro the Bishop. So when you Reflect upon your teenage years now. Yes How do you characterize them Very muddled, very un comomfortable. Very important because I think all the Really big epiphanyanies about ents of being Again, Shakespeare, to thine own self be true of that and even when it's uncomfortable, especially when it's uncomfortable. Yes. The odds. as my Ultimate safe space. All right I want to show you photo I want you to tell me Not only who is in the photo But how do you feel upon reflecting on this photo Okay ready Oh. T take a look at Who is in that photo? That's me and that's My sister Miranda And my brother he was a baby. Oh was I still think he was the cutest baby who's ever lived Yeah. Jack is a good looking guy He's a handsome chap. Hes Yeah. but I think Miranda is beautiful Yes. And big big brother there is not too bad. He's not too bad It justry See, you accepted it, Thankk. I did didn't? That was very good. did it Well executed. Well executed.. So how does it feel Looking back at that photo now. Well That's That's quite amazing, actually. Iven've seen this for a very long time. Gness knows where you laid your mitts on it and But it' I remember that time so well because we were so excited. I mean, we thought he was our baby. Yes. We absolutely thought he was our baby Rander and I. Because you know, we We've been rubbing along as a pair for such a long time because there was such tiny age gap When Jack came along God, we just delighted in himim I think there's something that we have . common in our familyil is that Yeah. We're all outwardly quet Sunny and I think that there's a commonality in people that have u suunny dispositition sometimes that they run towards the light because they need to run towards the light I I have always felt that I've got it like right here in the solar plexus like almost like an Ox or Obsidian Do that is quite Mlancholic and threatens to doubl in size or quadrupl in size even sometimes And my whole family I likek that And we've seen it where Um You know, it does quadruple in size and it It can't be U controll it anymore and So I think that we haveave a very You lost understanding of mental health And I think therefore, we're very very sympathetic to each other, but also very celebratory of each other and wherever you are on the graph, you know? Yes. And it's that Minicquanons really? I could see it I'll hold on to that, but I'll give that to. Yes. I'll give that to you. Thank you, Darning. Yes. I'm going to frame this because I didn't I didn't actually have this ph. Okay Oh yeah, but I'm gonna to give it right back to you. Let me put it right here so it doesn't I'm curious with U your brother and sister Jack and Miranda. because they were this refuge for you when you were facing the harder times bullying at school Did you share that with them Yes, especially well Jack was so much younger that he was we u at my dad's house We all chose to share a room. So we had our own rooms, but We all decided that There were bunk beds and then we put a third bed in so that we could just whitter away like magpies and we really do You really loved each other. Really loved each other. And my brother was on the top bunk And it he would be asleep because he was so much younger And then my sister was on the l b And speaking of desposoming, I mean, I really alf regret it now because it was a lot to put on Miranda. because I did all my desposoming with her D I V very often I couldn't eat and u sell She was trying to grapple with that too, you know I mean, she basically was just a tremendous listener and it was sort of A the talking cure. I sharing everything really and she She wasn't U staring at me, but she was just this Wonderfully. altruistic sympathetic ear. You know, what she was doing, how you describe it is She was holding space for you Yes, because it sounds like she didn't necessarily have the answers for you She made you feel safe seen Yes and heard. Yes. and you knew that she was always there for you. Yes, Yes that's the premise of holding space. Yeah. Yeah. And that's what she does so remarkably for her boys and actually my My great loves and you're included in that and do that with their children One more And then we move on from this place is I did not know. This is my first time hearing this that you there was a challenge with you eating during that time. Yes, I think. I I was like I was knot really, you know, I was just sort of so, so, so tightly wound And so sometimes that I would struggle with that, you know, I'd struggle with the simplest things. Um Also, food has always been my sort of greatest source of Pleasure and You know, I don't have very much there's not very much tussling of the eider down Sadly, And so like there' kind of lovely hedonistic pleasures. Yes. I don't see very much. so food has always been just this sort of utter joy And I think there this terrible voice like little demonic voice in my head that says do know things aren't right and you're a bit of a shaky craft at the moment I haven't even got a sale huh and What if one of these things that you love also denied you O was it that and keenly felt anxiety prevented you doing it. Yes and enjoying it. And so that's what would periodically happen, I think is that I then I just couldn't eat. I couldn't eat. I longed to eat. you could eat. Back ind eat. How long Would you go without eating? It would be and It would take me by surprise. it wouldn't happen all the time. im Sometimes I think I'd just sit down to eat and I'd realize that my body wasn't going to let me do it and u So and And again, Miranda was really my only confident You know, and it lasted a very long time It lasted about and probably about years to the point that I thought this will never go away. Wow. I just have to live with this. Oh my goodness. What happened in your life? to overcome that But you know, I' never thought about it because I was very fortunate insofar as it melted away And u Held were I think I was ten when it started and I think I was about fourteen when it sort of stopped And actually I don't knowet whether there is interconnectivity Looking back now I started my coming out process at fourteen and then finished around sixteen. Okay And I wonder whether I wonder whether the kn of having a secret and that I knew was a time bomb and had to be shared. Yes. So it was just sort of like being at base camp of Kilimandjaro and looking up and thinking There's no, I have to get to the top. But gosh, what a lot of effort along the way. Yes. Where are my crampons? You know U but perhaps perhaps they were Perhaps they were connected I don't know. Yeah. Perhaps Hi guys, I'm Adam and I want my dad T ash to call me Welcome to A age after the time that I'm looking at some of our texts and They're really funny texted you January that I'm going to South Africa And you said I think what you mean by the thumbs up emoji, at least I hope that's what you mean by the thumbs up emoji is something like I understand and I hear you. I feel like if you called me You could read me a little bit better and maybe you could understand the emotions that I'm going through in any given moment. You like to think that you're a pretty funny guy, right I know I roll my eyes at your dead jokes all the time I still like to hear them. so callall me and Tell me your dead jokes who sends text messages. Okay to his sons em hamed to admit this But I don't recall the last time I called them as a dand. Have you sent a thumbs up emoji in the past year Please don't be disappointed about it And why would that be It's trying to from an emotional standpoint without using words because that's an emoji That Yeah, that sounds like you're trying to cope out No, it is for sure. I mean, you have truly impacted how I will proceed with my boys H and I'm sure that You know, as your relationship progresses with them, they would appreciate it as well. We're in partnership with IDDMobile and Mental Health UK We want you to ditch the text and make it a call. And now because of my conversation with Adam that's going to include me. twenty one roughly what was What do you consider your identity to be That was the beginning. I suppose that was the beginning of my attempting to be real thespians. U myself, which I'd always longonged for And u Theab wasn't very successful. But I did work quite a lot. Okay. So twenty one though, your desire was what? What was the dream I spose I really wanted to sort of Beyond Broadway clutching a tony awward. See, I do it Fment pause. Yes. It was very dramatic, That was perfect We're now as a strruggling, impoverished Tespian. Yes. You must have had some wild jobs Oh I did. What were supp It always to be in hats Be I I played the Mad Hatter and then I did a national tour of the Cat in the hat, which I love Okay. The first show I did after the Royan Academy of Music was a new musical version of Sleeping Beauty and I was essentially malefificent, but I was I was called Fireina in the play. and I always did a word of the day with the company, which is why I ended up doing it That's the beginning word of the day beginning. I always did it every time I was in a Theatre Company And And my prince, who's a friend to this day very naughty boy called Matt Nalton. He's one of the naughtiest people I've ever met Much naughter than me believe him are. No. impmossible And much smatier than me. And in those days I was still quite green, especially where Smaty VoCab was concerned, again, believe it or not this troop. And he thought that he would Match my word of the day The Lexican of smart. Oh, interesting. on opening night He taught me the word Buaki. You know, I've only as an adult I learned I mean, like, when I say it as an adult like within the last maybe eight years, I've I heard about this wor Sney reached you. Yeah, it's new. Yes. For me. Yes, Yes. Well, it was very new to me then And u actually, I've subsequently investigated it and it's not sounds You did. didid you enjoy that? I love it.est I've investigated the etymology. Okay. And it's very innocuous because it comes from the Japanese verb Bkakaru, meaning to splash And they have a dish in Japan called Bakaki that is a noodle dish where the noodles are liberally splashed by sares It's very unfortunate for the word that it got marooned in Cn here. So how does that how does something like that happen How wasaki? Well it's timing b you really? I think it's all timing. How is a word like that hijacked Becauseuse I feel like it's awful, isn't it? It is, ' you're talking about a dish. It's probably unpleleasant. Yes.. it could have been marooned in meteorology. We could say, gosh, that's Bakaki. Exactly Look at that. You coming from the skies. But But how are words they're hijacked. No maybe it became Maybe it became Porn casgary in the east and then it jumped to the west. I don't know. Okay. So then how do all of these jobs these odd jobs if you will, but they're not odd because you're building your resume, you're building your chops How do you go from there to the voice Oh Well, I suppose in a roundabout way it was because of those jobs because I was doing at the Theatreal Windsor which I love it horrible kind of cuckoo clock of the theatre. It's just enchanting I was doing a play sweet revenge. I was getting these sort of pleasant. supportpporting roles and I thought I need to do something bold because I'm nearly thirty and I need to I really need to Think of something And so I secretly, I don't know what made me think of it But I secretly audition for the voice And it is all vag. Gesteine tntil you get on the So, you know that none of the auditions are filmed, It's all very secret. And they were so lovely to me. I mean, it was the best first exposure to tellelly, I think one could possibly have because you were handled with kid gloves and so well looked after And you were ascribed a vocal coach that befit your style. Interesting. And given a beautiful original arrangement. But you had to ition prior to Oh, that piece, right So even that process Uh, wasas your idea? I need to do this because I need Mike, I need to move my career to another level. Well, when I did it, it was I think it was around the time that some of my theater heroes done it. People like Cere Ellis and reallyally it really helped with accelerated the work theatre career. Okay. So that was my thought and that's why it was that show because that show seemed to me that it wasn't about getting a number one or anything like that, which I never could have you know, not that sty of singing at all. So do you know, I went back Yes and I see this clip. And I watched it with Jill and the voice. Oh no. did It's not very good. No, no, no, no, no. can I so first, let me just set the stage for for the voice because I didn't realize The voice was this time This is one of the biggest reality shows in the UK I remember them saying to me on the day. they said, o, you know, because you flopped, I mean, they didn't say that because you didn't get turned And it if you're lucky will Okay. The bit of your song, you know and And what they actually did was they Kood seven minutes of you know my backstory and my interview and my song and my exchange with the judges, and it was a direct consequence of that that You know, celebso dating came along because Frankie Nickel, who probably rem Yes. A lovely Frankie. Yes. watched it And u said, Oh we want somebody that's sort of Joarlly hockey sticks. to serve as the welcoming commommittee and they didn't really know what how it would work Tim She thought, o that would because he's You name. Sunny. Sunny, yes. So Can we go back to the ice Yes, Yes, you love it. You were on stage. Yes. And do you remember what song you were singing? Yes. It was the oldest song of the series. It was written in nineteen forty seven called accentuate the posositive And I love I love that that lyric is Two of my favorite songs I love for the same reason because they sort of describe my outlook cockkeyed optimist and accentuate the positive. It was a perfectly placed song. Yes I love that song. And I thought you I thought it was a It was a beautiful performance. And so I watched the judges Yes. and The judges seem to be, have you watched rewatched a clip of this? No. You've never watched. Well, I did I watched it when it came out The judges appear to be I mean, they're bobbing their heads, they're snapping. boy George was going back and forth. He was doing this I'm thinking They're all going to turn around Oh to you. I thought they would all turn around. Yeah The judges then unfortunately or fortunately because of how your career then goes on Yes. They did not turn around. No However, when they do turn around, do you remember what they said? I remember what would I am said R. I think he said which has happened to me many times. In fact I have to have a note on my Bang that I put in place with the manager because I kept getting past the fraud team saying, has's the voice of an octoggenarian lady U and I think I think he more or less said that He sure did. And to because sometimes I have to act as a translator and interpreter for you, you're saying the voice of an eighty year old woman. Y. Wh everybody at home. ye. I mean, I've had Angela Lansbury on the radio, I've had Fenether Fielding, I've had Anna Blackman Yes. and who actually, when I had them I think we're all nonoggeenarian Aadies. Adie is quite young for me. But this is what he turns over. Yeahah, he says And he says, are you, I think the first one of the first things he said is, are you serious He's like, Are you for real Is this serious? And I noticice that was the common question But this poor thing, you have it every day. I get this question All of the time All of the time, I remember when when you were I'm a celebrity., I went on this morning and I also did the Aor show from a celebrity in support of you. Y. The first question was Is he for real? Is this him? Is this his voice? Is he, you know, is he acting? Yes How do you feel knowing that this is s typically the number one question about you Again, I go back to that word eccentric. I delight in being Kentron out of center. Yes. And I don't mind if I'm a moon sort of orbiting the planet in a way. I don't mind that at all. The only slight downfall, if I'm reallyally pinning my colours to the mas and because it's you I well is that it's not an Aphrodisiac,' he anything It's like I think that in lots of ways It's a help because it sort of contributes to ones Sinhouette Uh but does not romantically Because his fate. I don't know. it's to People don't want Angela Lansbury's voice coming out, you know in a steamy setting I, uh, however far, but I will say this is that I truly, I'm not just saying this to say it is is that this is where I disagree with you Now I know there's lived experience. Yes, yes, Yes. I believe becausecause we are all individuals. Yes. we are all extxtra orordinary. Yes. That There will be And there is group of people. to will Just devour that That is true. I do agree with you. It's like I think I haven't got Bake Ontario, I've got a little puddle Kutla Kin Yes It's just that, you know, it's quite hard sometimes to locate the puddle Yes, that's true. That's the only difficulty. That's true. You helped me of course, once, Darning, and you discovered how puddlely the puddle. Oh my gosh. canan I talk about this? Yes, please do. Yes. I mean, I'm not embarrassed because I know, you know, I know from life. So I think it was I went to Instagram once, right? Instagram. didid. You were like, you were incredulous about my lack of good fortune in that department.. So I'll row open I said I'm going to find a partner for Tom Yeah. I was like, you know, I think we were having so much conversation. I like, Oh, this is easy. Yes. This is nothing. Yes. just I'll go on Instagram. So I go on Instagram and I'm trying to remember what I posted because I know I didn't close who you were. I don't believe or did I I think it was. It was a bit Nebulous. Yes. Yeah But I essentially was doing online matchmaking. You were for you. You were. had And incoming number We had a group come in I don't mind, Dany. This is an honest space That number is indelibly seared on my mental ret and. Right We had four, four four come in. but However You know, once again, it's the pool. I didn't have Lake Ontario And there was one in particular that I think we had discussed that that I thought was I don't remember this. was I thought he was a little old though I think it was a little old. R For you, right? Be because you're very youthful. Right what I realized in that process was that I was also ultra protective So I was saying, no, won't work. Nope, it's not going to happen. No. Yes. I don't like. And that's when I realized that I would not be I hope for you. Also why when Jill and I had our matchmaking agency, Yes, we hadd a strict no friends, no family policies. Yes We have to talk about celebs Oh we do, really. We have to talk about celebs because it was the voice that got you to celebs. Yes. And you said they were looking for you Well So this was beautiful. Well, they didn't I don't think they knew really what they were looking for. Okay. But they knew They were going to have and agents that needed sort of strict occasionally. Yes and needed sort of knownow their staff So then as a juxtaposition, they wanted somebody that was never streched and didn't know anything And that was me. And then and I was very worried about it because I thought, you know, Ps, it would be sort of produced. Yes. And And I went in Tal and I just had to talk I had to talk to the man that created it who was just sitting off camera and I just chattered him for about an hour about kinds of things and u And then that was it. So then Tom, what year was that that you started celeubbs goo dating twenty sixteen. twenty sixteen. Yeah, I think so. So ten years. tenen years. And I know there's been over three hundred episodes I believe. Yes, I think yes, and then some. And yeah, then some. because it's interesting. I remember celebrating one hundred episodes with you. Yes, and that was shortly after you arrived. And you must have amassed nearly three hundred yourself. You're right. I I've done you're right. I think I've done over three hundred. Yes. So then that year, so twenty sixteen and slleubbs go dating the premise is in essence there's an agency. Yes. celebrities are matched with quote unquote, civilians in the public. Yes, that's right. It's narrated by the fabulous Rob Bell Odd, I met him at the first rap party I said I've got, I've got to see you. on stage and then I foollowed him around G G Dt you show. G to live shows Because I mean, I find him sideid splittingly funny. Yes Yes. It's that it's the intersection of like left field wit with observational comedy and the whole cocktail. It's interesting because I think the show is Very, very good And he takes something that's very, very good and just makes it extraordinary. Yes White inc Ch. Yes Do you have a celeb or multiple celebrities? who've stood out to you. And why over the years Oh. I loved. I absolutely adored Uurerika. Yes I loved her because She So longed to surrender to a romance And yet she in lots of ways, we were sort of similar in that we'd sort of very happy with where we'd arrive. Yes And yet she had this beautiful way of sort of saying but U I'm going to go on these adventures and that's really what she made the dates kind of little Adventures and be so and Really invite whatever comes my way very warmly Yes. And I just loved that. I loved that. And I thought she was witty and erodite and Lovely. Also very kind. You remember veryer kind. She I remember she baked bread. She baked us bread. And she brought in, Yeahah, just just so off camera Off camera. Just incredible. Yeah. ye I and uh Oh and I loved I mean, ones that come back, of course, you'll get to know them much better. Yes which is heaven, because especially for me because I comparatively short scenes with them So then I kind of clock up more time if they if they repeat. So Sam, of course. Yes Yes. I I got to know him very well and U and we met outside several times and you know lived lived locally And u You know, I have to say I've never disliked Anyone. Yeah. I I've always and 've always been very drawn to the characters however divergent they A's been that's been one of the loveiest s really. Yeah. I think that's super Can I show you a photo Oh yes. Allright, close your eyes Close your eyes. Oh. All right. Oh. I want you to Tell me what is happening in this photo and who are you with Oh This was Just before your time was? Yes. I think that's probably twenty seventeen. This was on the plane going to or coming back from Cap Verde. Okay. And It and it's Jem Collins. Absolutely.' You guys are knocked out. But this is like This happened in phases because in the end I think she was sleep on me. I think this was the beginning So now I come into the picture of Celebsko dating in twenty eighteen I'm going to hold ont to that one Oh, Dwnning. Now we meet twenty eighteen. Yes And You know, for me, it's twenty eighteen. I'm living in the United States. I'm given an opportunity to participate in a reality television show. in place that I'm Unfamiliar withes. a format I'm unfamiliar with with a group of people I'm unfamiliar with I've brought my family with me. Yes But There still is a lot of stress and anxiety, if you will, around this It was also a unique circumstance that I was being brought into. And so to have to meet You know, this person I'll be working with and do you immediately feel safe was very, very important for me for me participating And then that feeling of safety that's you being the safety blanket for me just continued. You know, it is one of these where I truly I attribute My time with you I attribute. I put Anna, you know, our colleague Anna and this is that It was through the two of you. that I fell in love with And in particular, our first year together It was magical. And and and I was I was introduced it was in I was introduced to British culture through your eyes And I think that I'm so privileged to have had that opportunity So many people say, o gosh, I wish I want Tom in my life, right? And I say, well, you know what I've got him in my life And on top of it, like this would be bragging. Not only is he in my life, I was introduced to the UK through you And and and and that is so like I can't even describe it. to the point where so many people will say Really, you're making the UK your home. Really? you wantna be here My response absolutely. you know how incredible it is? You know, you think about Um whether it was just us in Liverpool Yes Yeah. And our time Liverpool we're filming Liverpool, but just spending that time. I thought we had day dates We did. we did and you know, and I feel so sorry for you, Daring, because I Vy often when we're out, temorri couple. But the thing is the undergiring the top layer of that cake is that It's a nice fantasy The bottom layer of that cake is that This is one of the great romances of my life and it's platonic, but it's I fell in love with you then And I think that's maybe why I thought initially Cash. But I think I did have a crush for a while. but u But I think maybe the reason that it had a little sequel was that all of these things were conflated in my mind because I was like, I love him who know I'm So to be in love with him Bch U No longer to know. consonsummated. and I'm also in love with his family and u And so I knew that I was like, o, this is just a love affair. actuallyctually Everything shifted for me in the dust eighteen months to two years because I and I am rubbing along so happily as a single person. And I'm so happy with my lot and I think becausecause I always had a and romantic sl, and I think I do in terms of art and in terms of My sensibility. Yes. Uh I think that I always thought that the thing that was missing from my life was a gentleman Now I don't tumbled into my life, I'd be happy as a clown I don't I don't seek it. But you don't seek it. No I'd like to know Fing at some stage You know. I found my person, you know, that that That would be nice and to be be in a kind of real romantic Kay is where kind of put on your Och alli roser and everything was slightly better. For doing it with the person, you know Do you feel like you don't have to answer this at all? Yeah. Have you ever had? that feeling. No, I don't think so, not not no, not really Really I got near to it with one person A that U Now I No I haven't add it yet Okay. coming coming It's coming. I mean, this is what I do. I think it's very naughty when You know, when I'm out and about with you and I'll say You know, I pretend you are my spouse and things. Well, so I mean, connecting this even to celebs is that you have made me offfficially naughty You know, I am My level of naughtiness. has now just Even the boys have noticed it and they're like, Dan like, what happened to you? I'm pure than Chven Satch Absolutely not. and everyone knows you knows that is the biggest lie in the world I to the point where When we're film in particular, I've noticed it with with Sleubbsgo dating is that I feel as if We can just empty our souls to each other Empiasos Empty our souls, you know? Empty our souls You do it It's time for you to leave already. You know, time is it hold on, it's time for leave. But but but but, you know, its it's it's so u Also, can I say this on this is that? This kind of banter is My biggest gripe with celebso dating. Can I talk about my biggest gripe? Yeah, I do. My biggest gripe is that So Once I got to the show es Anna comes in the following year, Anna Williamson, who we love. Yes. Dr. Tara comes in. Yes a few years later. Yes We have scene in the morning morning at the agency. We do Right, where you are in the agency doing something Y We all walk in, the three of us walk in.. and collectively it's improv It is really, isn't it? Yes. It's impro And we improv a scine together Yeah Those scenes are my favorite sccenes. of clebs goo dating Do they ever make it In the edit? Yeah. No, no, no,. They never make it in the end. We've done some incredible things What has been your favorite? My second favorite Zes. I have to just bring up because Be they your least favorite se. Oh my gosh, Okaykay. what we call and master in shes and I'm ashamed of myself for loving them so much because they're very masturbatory. Be you sit in a room and you're down the barrel of You know They whip out the cannon. in an unnosy way. Yes And you go down the barrel and you say whatever pops into your head and it's I just love it. As it sort of make the grreay cells dance.. And the synapses snap exercise. I love it. Yeah, you do. I don't know why, why don' you do You. L love it, don't you? I despise it. despise it. We have conversations just like this one every week. So if you haven't already, hit follow and the bell icon, and I'll see you for the next one hadad you always wanted to go on I' a celebity Truthfully, and Ant and Deet used to tease me mercilessly about this. I hadn't really seen it and I am an adventurer by nature. I've never been very good at sport you're going to think I'm joking now, but My ball skills aren't very good. But I do love climbing a tree or swimming in an alpine lake or Um And going on a hike or a ramble, but all of that outdoorsy stuff I love Okay. and So when it came up, I thought And I and this is a real life manter for me. if there's no reason to say no, except that you're fright things You must do it. And I was frightened about things that I hadn't great knowledge of like I don't know if I'll be frightened of creepy crawlies and rodents and things like that. But I was more worried about toss in my cot and things like that because I because I'm Uh Al scared about not sleeping. Interesting. So you were more scared of not sleeping. much more scared than anything else. much, much more. Much more scahead of that I Ch The most it was shortest. it was very truncated But the sleep quality was out of this work It was. Oh, it was so deep. It was really a very hypnotic environment. is the environment like actually because of course we We see it from the audience's perspective. Well part is very small and it's smaller than it looks. But the actual camp side, if you will brawling is it? And I spent a huge amount of time Becauseuse we had eighteen waking hours, really And I spent a huge amount of time communing with nature and there was a spot at the bottom of the creek where we would sort of collect wood for the far. Okay. and It was tranquil there, but it was also very noisy, but in a delicious natural world way. so the creek would babble furiously. a Bush turkey that had like I mean extraordinary like borlla kind of not what you'd think would come out of it, sort of B prorofundo. and then and Laughing cuckab barras in the canopy. Okay. And and then I had a minor bird that imitated my whistle. Yes, yes. Just amazing. Which I will Definitely testify. I've been on a trip with you. I forgot where we were, I think Dominican Rublic and I watch I observed you ose little terpins. Yes, communicate with animals and literally have them Communicate back. Yes, I would sing getting to know you and all the baby came up today. Yes, yes. on cue. So now What? Did you love the most about Experience. I love that level of socialization because I live alone And U and and a lot of my life and actually quite a lot of my work is solitary. Um And so that intensive Bell in my life of socialization was Really loveovely. U and then the communing with nature. Yes. But the the impact that had on me is the thing that I longed to kind of take with me forever back into life because Because of living alone and because of having somethingomet slightly melancholic inside me I can be introspective, quite introspective And you can't be there. I believe it's a physical impossibility because We had one little mirror which I never looked in because it was just too ghastly And we A There was no way to be aware of self, you know, of having a face and a body there was just You forgot it. you became a kind of floating Phantom. was ingesting everything, ingesting, ingesting, ingesting, and therefore, one's lens when utterly out. Yes. And I thought, o, Be like to live this way if you could just Just ingest just delighted. all that was in your orbit and and lose track totally of the Ego, I suppose. And I remember thinking to myself before we left the symbol of this, I'd be happy. Just a thmbol I find that so interesting because I have heard this before, especially about I'm a celebrity. is there is something that happens there where you evolve. Oh, Oh, it's extraordinary and I think that's why a lot of people Um an intensely vulnerable moment which I did about halfway through Just I couldn't stop Weeping I just couldn't stop weeping for nearly a day actually And u And it' because my body was going through a transition, I think of' losing the ego and living just looking outwards. But it fits it fits almost poetically within this een months of transition this transition period for you. Yeah. because I would imagine that you have been able to maintain more than a thimble of your outlook from from the jungle as you've now come back. Yes. I mean, I wish if I'm really truthful, I wish I had retained more. because I think what happens when you come out is that All of those other things spike actually you know, the things that very much root you into into the civilized world. all we all actually made a pact We would stay off our devices for another forty eight hours. Oh really? And we all adhere to that because we so loved what it had done to us, you know? So everyone agreed to this. All agreed. All agreed. And I think every I think everybody did it. Look at that. lookook at that. whileile in the jungle. Yes. wasas there person or two that you felt that you formed and especially strong relationship with Oh gosh I felt So very close to age. I'd love love him so I love him so and we You know, his siblings Al his his best chums. Yes. and H. There so much that we had in common actually and like He loves playing with language and bending words and twisting them about and sort of seeing what shapes they make He' inspiring with The lyrics to his pieces are Oh my goodness. I mean, he' he's Keith. He's he's He's remarkable. Yes. and So And and Sona I that we sort of shared a soul in a way I was so impressed by her and She was discovering herself in that setting. and discovering How much power lay in her talents And that was just lovely to be close to that and and watch that gradual Epiphany And you gave her some phenomenal ice in there Oh, did I? You did You did. Oh, what did I say? Your relationship advice in particular Oh was yawning. Oh yes, you were on it You were on it But in essence, you were helping her to understand power that she already possesses and how special she is. Oh, I believe that because you know, I think that U She had to have a measure of time after the jungle and she really has, especially where Platinum larynx of hers is concerned where she celebrated that and saw what happened, have to have um The zenith of her artistic ambitions be realized as a singer. and that was that was thrilling. I thought there's no cloud in this clear blue sky for her, you know, this is this is This is a boon And you could see she believed, in my opinion, she believed more in herself because she saw that you believed in her Oh, well, I hope so I hope so. Yeah Oh, yeah. Oh yeah. Idess it. Idess it Anyone else you felt really h did it for you? Oh yes. I mean, I know everyone did to a certain extent. Yes, everyone did to a certain extent. and I think that was what was so special about it was that We were so harmonious and we had a conversation as a group Led I think, by Jack, who was just the loveliest soul loveveliest. Gentless soul. This is Jack Osborne. Jack Osborne Somebody built to be a father because he's like you. He's just generous of spirit and just giving and and his antennae are always up and very sophisticated. nuanced emotional understanding And he said, Dan And Ruby said it too at a different time. Okay. Isn't it special that we've made a microcosm that's entirely harmonious when You know, we know, well we don't know in that moment what's happening outside, but we know what was happening outside when we came in Yes. And we have been given the tools In this Microcosmic world to make what we'd like. what we'd like to see And we all decided that what we'd like to see is It is harmony. Wow And And so it was a conscious it was a conscious thought ated by more than one personers I felt by all keenly felt by all And those two actually were I was very close to them as well. And the other person I are you saying Jack in Ruby E. Wax Y. Yes Yes. and the other person I I have to mention is Martin because Oh my Godd. Martin is Fascinating. He can speak pololari And Palari is was Secret gay language, pre decriminalization. of homosexuality And people could speak it so that they mainly, if u killed handcuffs, which was what they'd called the law were around and to go under the radar and still say what they'd like to say And he said to me one day Bona Lally is t which means Great legs And in Polari, I said you don't speak Polari And he said, Yes, yes. In fact, I wrote a thriller in one of my characters only spoke Bari and he said, I grew up listening to Round the Hor, and Kenneth Williams and Hugh Paddock used to speak C on that. Okay. And He said we'd listen every Sunday. and Uh He said, then and He said, I believe that Political acts are often felt about ten years after the fact and he said, if you think about it Decriminalization happened in ' sixty seven And he said the romantic the new romantics as a musical movement happened in ' seventy seven. Yes. And he said we were all congregating at Blitz where there was no gender, there was Orientation. And we called ourselves the newew Romantics because we loved Byron and we loved W, look at that Wild and we loved those Androgynous Poets Um who Occupied myriad spaces and identities. Y. and special man and we had so many so many conversations about his life and those revelations M in his life as they happened and how they always happening at the same time as the arts and there was therefore a movement. Yeah. Oh, I loved him. Oh my goodness. I loved him. You know, I can see that this u I'm a celebrity was. truly was about community It was about community. And it's interesting because we're watching you on challenges and eating wild things and having to put snakes and all things all throughout your trousers. one got very friendly with my own snake. Yes. I think he's sort of saw a fellow traveller out there I there's something familiar up there. I'd like to know you. They said, Wow, look how big you are. I'm so sow A sweet d There's nothing to write home about. It's got the right amount of vascularity Right That's the key is vascularity. That's key I like.. I think that's probably why we find it attractive becausecause it's sort of reminiscent of a man. But it's interesting. It's interesting.eresting It'. But we're watching we're watching all of this But for you, what's actually happening This community Yes, absolutely. So the challenge where you were, I think this was your final challenge where you were eating a Cosine volver Yes which is like a bacony radish. It Adie it's not bad The one that was hard, which was actually because it was their silver jubilee un know When I went in. Okay and Therefore There were a lot of Virgin appearances of all sorts of things, I think challenges and foods. And I got one of them and it was Camel's brain Yes. and as And I said to Anton Deck, I think you must never do this again Because that was that was like foie gras that had been left out in the sun for a year It was just and it stuck to the roof of one's mouth. Did it Oh was hard. Where involved it was a walk in the park? wasas it? Compared to camel spray? Really What was it Because you're hungry though Right somewhat Yes. you are very hungry. So because you're very hungry, does it make the camel's brain Does it go down easier I think I think perhaps it made and other things that might not go down as easy. Okay U likeike you know, a huntman spider or a pore involver. Yes which I had in stent in solid and liquid form. Oh, interesting. And you had the spider. Did you have the spider hole? Was it alive or no It wasn't a lie, but I did have it home. I think. It's quite texturally arousing Rom quick You know, it's quite crunchy. Crunchy. Okay. you placed secondecond Yes. Okay.es. And what was interesting is were you aware at all of what was happening outside of the jungle because there was a concerted campaign for you. I think Jack and Miranda, your brother and sister were just phenomenal on that campaign. And they were so naughty because I said to them for I went in I left Jack in charge, my brother. Okay My Instagram And I said, don't do anything you know he's got a job. He's got a full time job. Yes. And so touranda. Yes. And I said, donon't do anything except, you know, ITV ask you to Share something. You know, if you get those requested tag things. Yes Yes. to collaborate on a post. To collaborate, then do but otherwise don't do anything discovering I mean, it had become a full time job for them in addition to their full time jobs. couldnt could not believe it I couldn't believe it. And to answer your question And no, I had No idea. And also the funny thing is that when You I at least was completely unaware of the cameras. I mean, genuinely completely unaware. uil I went to bed each day. Okay. And then when I went to bed, I thought, o my night watching a car rust And then it's only after the fact when you Leave and you see montages and things that Anton deck do. and then and then You know It brings back a flood of memories and you think, o yes, I do remember that happening. Whereas the trials and the challenges, I remember almost frame by frame as they happen because there was so much adrenaline coursing through Your veins? Yes and that, you know, it heightened your recollection But the days they they were one sort of long Yeah, um sort of undulating channel and it was very hard kind of the floating bits of debris out of them, you just couldn't You could do it. and had and you had no awareness of the I would say the Falling in love with you. that that the nation was doing. You were complete utterly unaware. Oh Oblivious. You must have felt the love. Now now feel it and it is White Tumbling and staggering. when you're first out and about, that experience because I think people invest in that Eperience so much emotionally Pbably because everybody in it is so vulnerable and so naked and so exposed. Yes. And so then when when No. immediately afterwards They are almost compelled to say You know, I lived through that with you. Be because they really did, you know? I they really did because if you're in a cage with fifteen snakes and their hearts in their mouth You know, it' the journey of watching that show, I suppose is almost almost as physically taxing in a much more condensed wayes as going through it, which is why whichich is why you get such physical reactions when people are asked about it, you know, they go, o, I could never do that. or, you know How did how could you do that? And how could you face that? And so Um I think that's why. I think that's why People get so very on board. Yeah, I think it was a Clearly it was a life changing experience for. He was life changed. and you met some incredible friendriends. Yes, that you'll have for life. Yes And On that note I have a letter from one of them. If you can take a look at that and read that for us This looks like parchment Oh To my liege and servant I blash to my very cuticles, I must tell you I am with Challenge. Unbeknownst to me in the inky blank of in the inky black of post crepuscular darkness One of thine lordships sp Hast invaded my corporeal womb Twice, Nith Rice But it was definitely thine. Well, I did have contenders, that's for sure I noticed this may come at a wrong time is sc Wry not? I shall crouch and deliver in the thistles or miner I'll not bother ye, but with a simple lawsuit. Do not blemish thy perfect visage with we. It will only be for a farthing and a small island. Baly climbs Yours to the death, Queen Rubella The lady in waiting with great expectate Perfect That is perfect. Oh, she's so heavenly Oh I love I love her s Yes. I know that's it Breakfasted Ca Ruby, you made? Oh, really? I tell you, I'm gonna I'll give that back to you as well Oh yes, please. Darling, I'll give that back to Treasure chrove you've offered me So Oh my, what a special thing. So that is the wonderful Ruby wax. The wonderful, wonderful Ruby wax. Yes, it seems like these experiences that you're having now, these opportunities. Yes You are Eolving a human. Yes, these experiences are shaping you Yes. What you're doing is you're continuing to then give actually I remember when I when I U stopp doing theatre and my work. more or less became Kenny and Um I thought, Oh that sort of sad in a way that I can't sort of tell stories anymore, you know then we do, don't we, you know, We do instinctively and intuitively, we tell stories all the time no matter what The medium is. Yes. That's in essence what you have done for us today in this conversation. I say this with no whatsoever. And but you already know this is My sons, they I feel as if Kingston is very happy go lucky. He can be around anyone' fine. Yes. Liam is highly resistant to many people. but the moment that he met you Obviously the moment that Kingston met you is You you change their world change their world There's so many things that I see they have become because of you U there Dance. on quQeerness. Tumes from seeing, you know, their Uncle Tom. You know, there their desire to step outside and see value in the arts comes from you That really doesn't come from me. That comes that that that it originate the seed planted from you to the point where That's career path that they both are heavily considering comes from. And I think they will, I think they will. Do you remember in Basstersey Park when Again, in the name of showing off to the boys, I climb to the top of the tree. Yes. I've got to impress them. That's the awful thing and I always do this with children. I've got to impress them. What can I do? That I would never do. It is I mean I have so many phenomenal memories with you. Like truly, I think I think that is almost the underpinning of a great relationship is is that there's an endless number of phenomenal memories. because you know, it was through you also that you taught me the different accents. around Really? Oh yeah. Oh yes. And I love them. I mean, thing is etymologically and it really means a regional song Yes. And I love that because when I hear an accent I tune in to the melody really first. and even though the there might be obvious differences in a vowel sound or stress It's the music that that comes from really draws you into it. and I think that's why I find them so attractive. You know what we should do. We should do somethingve I think no, no, we have not done this, but all right, I have a game Let me know if you want to do this You Deliver a regional accent you guess And I guess it Right Let's see, please, please. I've been talking so much about. I know Okay these accents. I'm gonna and I'm going to put a bit of regional Lexkan in there as well. Okay, yeah, go deep on the region that you're a Bt Lang meer lum breach We're north. We're way north. Well done. Yeah, we are we are so north Are we so north we' in Scotland? Yes. Okay Scotland. Pravo Thank you. Thank you. And Lum is so it's like I' wishing somebody a really happy home and heart L May or long week. Okay There you go Okay. All right, give me another one. All right. what to know. what to know. You know what? I'm feeling musical. Let's bash out a song on the old Joanna You are Essex slash East London. Yes And Joanna is Cockney Rhyming's slang for. Piano Oh my go Ba. Thank you. Okay I wish you and this Cast All the luck and success Ds My little accouushla Okay I know We are And Ireland or Northern Ireland So so we're in that territory I look at there Irish and a Kushler Its You're my cushra The Kushler is from Irish Gaic And a Kuchleer means pulse and it's short for U Pulse of my heart. And so it's a ccher is just o pulse. and It's the notion that somebody is So vital to your very being that they're like your pulse Yes. Isn't that beautiful? It is beautiful. I mean, it super seeds beloved it, doesn't it? It's just like It's heavenly. It is. And this is why I love etymology Yes, rightight. because then I think what you end up doing is your vocabulary changes once you understand the origin. You see it through that prism. Yes, is absolutely true. I've never heard you actually do mine Oh Wh which which I'm scared to. there's one there's one example which is when I suddenly realized Normally I wouldn't dare do yours, but I have to do yours when I tell this story because Because because I suddenly see myself through your eyes because it was so awful. Oh my go. I did to you I think you know were coming d? Yes. So one day you and I were out and about in Brixton, I think, or perhaps somewhere in South London. You had a lash on your cheek and Um I pulled it up. And I said And I've held it out before your eyes And you said Because you're so polite, you wouldn't say whyy are you fingering my face and pulling off my hair and you went Oh wow, tea Oh wow, look at that Bo T And I was like And then I said Bow And you looked even more agghast. and yourre like like, oh . juncture, I realized that People in Washington Don't pull off people's eyelashes and tell them to make a wish. No, no. I don't think that's a A US thing No No, I don't think No, I don't think so now. No. But that's it is that that's a full British situation. I think so. Interesting. Yeah, it's very lucky. Yeah. But you did blow it off and make a wish, didn't you? Yeah I think I did. I think I did. You know what I think you got me though Baby. Those are my preferred Choices or should I say, selection. off words. Wow when Kingston or Liam impersonate me, that's exactly what they do. Oh, the other one that you love, which I love that you love is That's wild That's wild Yes, that's wild Oh, that's wild tea that as wild. I didn't think I can I didn't think can do very well. No, yeah, you did it perfectly You don't, you have, I don't have that ability I think there's a separate muscle to impersonate C you No You can't do me then. I wish I could. Do you know how much money I can make if I could do you? If I could impersonate you, know do you know what I would be doing right now? I would be touring. That would be quite anonely fans if you could do me come Read Wilson I Adore you. I love you so I you are truly, you are one of the most kind Beautiful. Majestic wise witty F. You're gonna go into like And then I say you can't, Dning, you can't. You have this truly, truly, one of B You are you are also onene of the most influential people in my life. And I am so thankful to have met you I amm so blessed. to have you in my life, It is a privilege to have you in the life of my family. I am going to be one of your biggest protectors from, you know, throughout eternity, even when I pass away I'm still going to be out here prrotecting you U I think you were placed here on this earth to make us all reflect make us all better human beings And it is a blessing actually know An Angel. So thank you. justust thank you. And I love you and Beyond this conversation, I'm just truly, truly blessed to have you in my life. So so thank you. Well I feel I feel the very same. And I knew isn't that isn't that Amazing. I knew the second We met. I mean, Neither of us really believe in love at first sight but in a funny old way We did have it because I knew there's something. Yes. there's something here that If I am given permission I will Pive to me fver Yes, ever. es, Isn't that something Isn't that something Look at that. I do that happen. I love you too, but you're doing my eulogy. Remember that Yes, I am. But it's whoever it's awfully Macabbur, isn't it? It's the perfect way to end. Whoever gets to the grave first? Yes. We'll do the oerss eulogy. My money is on me. No,, no, l Hs ist We shouldn't finish. No, that's the perfect way to finish Fog popping No, I'm dying first Marie Wilson, byy buddy. Yeah. I mean, there's so many things One is, I think probably the most important is How C hold space for everyone in his life We saw it on I'm a celebrity. You see it on celebs Go dating you see it in every interaction, every television show that he does. He's a master at it, but it's something that he doesn't practice or rehearse or preach. He just does And I think that's something we can all take from him and from his story. He mentioned, he said, you know, we both don't believe in love at first sight. And I agree. I always say I don't believe it, love at first sight. but Actually the first moment that I saw Tom, we became intertwined indefinitely. It helped me redefine love at first sight. in platonic relationships. you know Tom is the person who taught me. how to hug someone. Before I met Tom, I was What I call standard hugger. I would hug briefly And then He taught me You give it time. And my hugs with him are a minimum of thirty seconds mininimum. when you hug someone for that long, you can actually feel a difference You can feel cortisol levels droppings you know, you could feel the connection with the person Taught me how a hug This is exclusively not told anybody this. The story is the same thing I've been telling for years. It's just like the cameras are now in focus and people actually hearing it differently. I just think about little Keror upsets you now Can you believe that we're doing this again? It just would it love me, Bal. Here he comes. He's coming in. As a good interviewer, I have to ask you this. I don't want to besociated with it. When we together It's amazing, but we are very different people. Do you believe you two will get married?