Psychology of Reality TV Competition

So good, so good, so good. New markdowns up to seventy percent off are at Nordstrom rack stores now. Stock up and stve big on shoes, tops, dresses, accessories, and more must haveves for summer. Join the Nordy Club to unlock exclusive discounts, shop new arrivals first, and more. Plus, buy online and pick up at your favorite rack store for free Great brands, great prices. That's why you rack We are talking In this episode, Spencer Pratt and Harry Jowsy pull back the curtain on the reality TV machine. from staged storylines Villain edits the strategy behind turning screen timee into fame this line between Is it real is it' like it it ushered in call now structured reality I think it was like the first prominent show to do that So what I'm wondering is that When you were going into a scene How structured was the scene? how produced was the same. Heidi, her first season, she was as real as can be, no struck doing, you know, maybe they structured her job and put her in the school that she couldn't afford, even though they had LC that paid for LCs and then it made it so Heidi couldn't afford. So she had to drop out and kind of without Heidi knowing, There were structuring being, you know She wasn't in play on it. I mean, this is a blow in my mind because evenven you getting into the show You orchestrated that. Oh There's so many people that you could go right now and go have dinner with them, witnesses, with the whole plan And it went too far obviously because as you get deeper, you You're like, you know You've got to keep pushing the envelope of making TV and as a real person you're now sabotaging your existence. Yes, you know, that's why I never You know, even though when I lost the plot, I didn't lose the plot design It was the same path I always plan to go down. You gott to be the Simon Cowl And I didn't watch whatever Simon Cowell was. I'm like, who, Simon Cow. Everybody hates him. was like, that's easy. I should have known but I was dumb The Simon Cow can be that because he's telling people to suck at something the truth. And sometimes the truth comes off. A like but he's still telling you Don't quit your day job Because he knows you got no chance I didn't have that grounding my behavior, so it didn't let the audience be like, oh He's just doing that because they believe People believe the show is real So when you said, it was the first where people like, is it real? I never experienced anybody to this day. People are finally now like, o Really, but at the time Nobody thought it was So yeah yeah, no, I'm with you. Oh it was like I remember when I used to watch wrestling when I was a little boy you know, WWF, I was like, this is real. It wasn't until much later. I was like, o my God, they're staging all this. I think it was the same way with the Hills. It was. Yeah. People took it way too serious. Also my biggest mistake or not. I never watched one episode until Two years ago, when I was making like some TikTok series where I was showing all the frrank Biting, how, if you don't know what Frank inviting is, it's where Right now, you can film in the back of my head talking to you and then I'll go to a voice overver. And we put a whole new sentence to what I was saying to you in post or I call Heidi right now, but then they have somebody else on the other end in the footage. So I'm saying all this stuff, Oh, Heidi I love you' so beautiful. and they put some other woman in the edit and she's like Oh, you shouldn't be s So that's the type of stuff. So years later, I was like, I'm gonna make a TikTok series. I didn't even know how bad it was you know, what they were really doing. I thought I was pupp and master but I was just full puppet. You wereull. I was getting played. was That was the joke on me. Yeah. And at what moment do you first realize from the public's reaction Oh how they're seeing you show up U I remember once we were sitting at my favorite now burnown, but Cafe Vita and the Palisades early on. and We' cittity, some breakfast case city or whatever and a car goes by. and All these girls are screaming Yeah L likeike and I was like, Oh well. At the time I was like, dang, I'm so famous. know like You know, because it was still that type of That's when you When people are yelling out you out a window, you are You did it You did it. It' the first thing I framed in my room in my childhood room was Star magazine. It was called the Yucko meter and it had a meter and it said Yucko And like it was like a cartoon I had my face and like had it like all max yuck and I framed it on the wall. I made it. That was you. That was you. So you were proud of that Do you know how hard it was to get into a tabloid back then? That's so people forget Tabloids were for movie stars. pereriod Parasm broken as a socialite. just looking like a straight billionaire heiress. you know, skinny little dresses Loo That's how she got in. but nobody was on a show. Just being Joe Schmoe, no pun intended. There was a show Joem. Joe S. Yeah, Joe Smo wasn't inab place place. So for both playand and real life. So I was like, I just hacked in the whole matrix. You made it. Yeah. you made it. Yeah. Now you said previously, you just said, like I lost the plot, but I didn't Walk me through that Yeah, I mean justust the I didn't under because this is an era where TV aired once And if you didn't buy the DVDs, you're never seeing that again So my brain and formula never saw streaming Twitter talk Reels. All these things, my brain never saw that. So I was like, I can do anything. every Monday or Tuesday night. You know, this is going to go away. People I'll be lucky if people remember What happened on this show? in that version of entertainment. So my plan got very sideways, realizing now there's this permanent record of this which You know, I would have made it out like a bank robber you know, if The new media platforms didn't exist. Okay. But at that time two six to twenty ten. So we're talking YouTube is just coming into Yeah, nobody' no one's on No one any socials. No. I mean, I'm sure if somebody be like YouTube is so big, but I didn't have a YouTube account And I'm TV star, famous. Right, you know, right, right. How did how did it feel for you when you were going around LA or traveling the reaction that you were getting. I mean, I was so famous that people when they I always said that. peopleeople can say anything behind, but when they meet you and you got Now they say it the aura or whatever ame power, which was so much more magnified then because of the power of media in the traditional sense because now it's so fragmented and it's all over. There's so many people get there If you're into this little niche, you're in this old pocket. but this was forced on you. You didn't even You were had to see my face. You had to see Clip. you was You had no choice. Now you can choose And so power of fame, that energy out in public at a time. You know, I That's why my ego is my ego couldouldn't be more famous. I could have been. Right. They're putting our portraits next to Obama in the fanciest restaurant in Beverly Hills you know Brad Pitt, Obama, like So I'm I don't care what they're airing on the show. So so you just because you like that feeling You then feed into what's happening on the show even more. Oh, well, I like the feeling of money more. And without that, that was your goal. Yeah. And so the more of that feeling, the more money that comes. So I was like And then And then it goes dark when you find out, oh, the more money, oh, now they're going to cut it off because they don't actually want to pay more money to get that anymore They can get it cheaper with Jerseyhore I see, I see. So So I remember I was once I was listening to some media scholars And they were talking about a term called better villainy Have you ever heard about this And you know what? you know who they referenced in it I love it And they said, okay that you were one of the first people ever on television. to not only Play the role of the villain within the show. but then to manipulate the system outside of the show Well, there was more money actually outside the show for doing these like interviews and you know, comments in the magazines and so they sell your photos. So maybe not more, but a lot of money. So then you're doing it outside of You know, in a perfect world, You know I would have been making so much on the show that I would have no media. No. And then in that managing or e manipulation or whatever of the system. That involves calling the paparazzi I mention. You called your like before Paparazzi was showing up themselves, but it sounds like you were Well I we made a partnership with them fifty fifty. Did you? Yeah. So we work every photo almost from the second hiday night Man. I we were fifty fifty with every phhotos sold and licensed So I want to say like legit millions were made in paparazzi photos. Just paparazzi photos of things that we staged with them. and we'll go get the props and go rent a boat and like do the Titanic shot on the front of the boat and then open the box to shoes and then you know may sell it you know Wow, you were running it I mean, that's why I was That's why I kept going, you know, and then just So that how did you So at what moment do you feel like you you lost Jersey shore I mean, it's that simple. O I knew once I saw Jersey Shortc come, I was like, game over. And why? Because they were unbelievable You know, you cannot I was the only one with Heidi that cared about trying to make the show good everyveryone else It was the early now it's called image crafting. They were all professional image crafterters. They were like, we don't want to be like Heid and Spencer. They did their best to like keep it where then you see the Jersey shore You got a whole cast that doesn't even need to make it up like Heidi andpencer there do I God Tornado sound like the writing' on the wall. Really? Game over. With that being said, where you stand right now, when you reflect back on the hills, just specifically that period Do you have any regrets Oh no. I would have gone harder I would have made it so that Jy Sort never even showed up. They wouldn't even have taken the pilot E' been like, we got We got the Tasmanian devil over here like, you know, I got spe five more. Yeah, I got too cozy You know, I like start phoning it in. you know, even though I look great like I would have I should have hired my own writers I should have, you know wrise my ideas, bring in some ringers in my click, you know, I was like just like, getting whoever to film with me, I should have been You know, like, I had I had the arc. I should have loaded it. You should have gone. I did not think you would say that Yeah, yeah How do, when you look at reality TV now What I notice, especially with the shows that I do is I feel like every not everyone, but there's always multiple people who want to be the villain Well, now it's like a spot, you know, let me tell you I' advise them be careful what you wish for You know, it's here's what the problem of being the villain is The villain, when you're part of like a franchise works If you're just doing a one off You're going to get those hits. you're going to get those views you are going to not get followers because a lot of people do this get followers. People when it really comes down to it. People don't follow people They don't like. Yeah, there's people that are follow to hate and just be like send, you know, the ghost follow you to like troll and be like Gal of fame. is for people that genuinely like you to want to be connected to you to want to live through you through experiences. So if you go on a show, you're going to go on a dating show. you're going to get that boom pop, everyone's back like, Oh, I saw you in the show If you want to keep being connected to fame and attention There's not a You know, and I learned that the hard way. If you are a villain, but it's from like L heartfelt like back to Simon Cal, right. He was a villain. Good exam. but it had heart behind it So Like if I could go back to being a villain, I would have been way more Cutious I You know who did it great as a villain is like a Scott Disick. Yes. People just he just said what he was thinking a lot of times it was the truth. You know, he also didn't have them editing against him. It's harder if there's an agenda to like Literally like there was a deal in place with LlC to make Heidi and Spencer the worst human beings are to keep Elsie going. Oh really? Oh, so that's hard to you know, combat even if you're strategic. So There's only so much you know, but if you don't have that type of situation because that's very rare Like if you're just going on one off. What you just said, I'm literally going to clip Inan because I see it all the time what you just said is the gospel is that when you see a lot of these contributors go on these one off shows They want to be the villain because they want the A storyline But to your point Noone follow us No one likes that I there's no merchandise or commercial deals that come as a result of that Right So why I play that? It's so rampant now that I was talking to a producer not long ago and he said There are people who teach you to be a villain on reality TV shows Like there's literally training for it. You know, again, Go for it I'm also not saying, don't do. Like if you're fine with You just want to work that angle and, you know, you can work and then go to the bad girls franchise. you know Zeus will take you or whatever. You know, there is there's a space There's somewhere but I'm just saying if you you're not a villain It's it's a you know, some people want to be villing our our villains. I You know, You know, you're probably a bad guy. if you want to be a bad guy, you know, I wanted to be rich and I didn't get the choice to be the hero. They were like, you're not coming on You know't, this show's done likeike I was like, Oh, this is what I'm going do And I saw long term possibility alsoso plan work. I'm going to go on this show. M us so good they're going to give us our own show, Brody. And what did MTV do? They gave us our own pilot, but we were so good My again dumb ass was like, now, we're good. We don't want to show that you're giving us on our own. Let's stay on the hills because There was more money now in the hills But I should have been like, hurt by go do my own thing with Brody, build up and Yeah and get that, you know. Yeah. canan I ask if you can how much were you making on the hel Once it got to like peak, I think it was like one hundred twenty thousand episode. episode, Not bad You know, with than one hundred twenty thousand did a lot more in two thousand eight then what one hundred twenty thousand does right now. Yeah, not bad. You know, I was just on my own war path You know, I would have been. I would have played the game. Kim K, another expert at that. and came coming up. seven days a week meetings to, you know, like look at everybody who was super successful that I've watched They work with every I was just our Yeah, and it's like fair enough Study and play come together on a Windows eleven PC. And for a limited time, college students get the best of both worlds. Get the unreal college deal, everything you need to study and play with select Windows eleven PCs. Eligible students get a year of Microsoft three hundred sixty five premium and a year of Xbox GamePass Ultimate with a custom color Xbox wireless controller Learn more at windows d. com slash student offffer. Law S supppplies last ends june thirteth turns at aka. mS slash college PC. Ready to soundtrack your summer? With Redull Summer all day play, you choose a playlist that fits your summer vibe the best. Are you a festival fanatic, a deep end DJ, a road dog, or a trail mixer? Just add a song to your chosen playlist and put your summer on track Red Bull Summer all D day play, Red Bull gives you wings Visit reedbull dot com slash bright suummer Ahead to learn more. See you this summer You don't know what the show is Do you know what So what is your objective though with the show? Is it still My friends live Far name That was that was a goal. That was it. Yeah, I remember just because my friend my best friend Christian, who was also from the first show I did. and we were living together He's like, dude This meme stuff it was like early on, it's like this meme stuff, likeike, if you become a meme That's the goal. And I'm like, okay I'm trying figure out to become a meane So I went in with like, random things to say and like a handshakes for the boys. like it was very strategic. I made the first day with the guys because I was only one there. Oh, I think maybe another guy, but only one there. done a show before. So I knew at the end of this, we're not going to be friends. We're not going to like each other. We're all big personalities. We're all going back to different parts of the world The first show with like an international cast too, so like I don't really care about these people So I totally the guys In the interviews, I'm talking shit about you. justust remember that you're probably kind of feel some type way when you like watch it back. So just remember if Talk shit about me becausecause I'm gonna be going in on you. and they're like no way, we're going gonna be friends. I was like I promise we won't. I'm not gonna to be a friend after this. I've got friends And I'm good on this. So I think that's what helped me too. because then as soon as I sit down in the interview, they're like Harry's dragging. I didn't even it probably wasn't even. I was probably crying about something else. So it was just like trying to plants, like just trying to be strategic to make sure that I was guaranteed screen time. Yes. Becauseuse you don't know what you get on these shows. You know what one is, thank you for being honest about that. You know what I mean? Because I mean, I've done a million reality TV shows now. Yeah, notot as the person, but more so as the host. R. That's way more fun What I've noticed is that I feel as if most come in h Yeah, right. But those who come in most methodical, at least what you do is you set your expectation, you could get what it is that you need out of it. Yeah inststead of feeling like you were manipulated right? Like when you do a movie scripted show, you know the screen timee you're gonna to get. I'm in scene I'm not in this scene My shit I was like Okay I don't care. like I don't care from regardless of the edit, I've got no choice on that. Obviously If I say nice things, nice things will be put in. If I say bad things, bad things will be put in. But I was just like I legitimately All I want to do is guarantee I'm in the show because there were some people there that like fully like and all the shows over done that just disappar and it comes to the last week and they're like, Ohh my God I have to do something. I have to cause drama, whatever else But I also think that If you're gonna to do a reality show If you're thinking like that, you can also ruin your chances because you see it as well. People come in and they go in their interview and they're like, okay thinking about what I'm going to say The difference with me is I don't care what I'm saying. I'm just gonna to say how I feel and say whatever else like, oh that guy's got I remember was a girl I said she got like chalky teeth in That guy go like B fingernails, likeike I would literally whatever whatever I could to like just at least like I want you to get that sound by whatever else I see a lot of other people that come in with the mentality. I think when I did the perfect match, one of the girls was like This is my rebrand. I'm like, goir, you're a hookup show This is reban, It's probably not a good idea, but She would sit there and you could see her like being calculated. And it just looks like you're lying and being deceitful. I think too is that a lot of people don't realize how hard it is to for the contributors. Oh my God, ' to that point is like they take your cell phones, that like they take everything. Yeah. You're in a bubble. You have the producers in your ear You begin to question Am I thinking this? Is it actually happening? It's crazy, Mental warfare? It's and some people really There's some people it's like, you need to never be on a show because it's not Ey because you actually can't trust anyone You don't have friends, you don't have your family And you sure as fought contrast the produices because like They're going to say things with a good or bad It's to benefit the storyline and it's to get what they need out of you. like There is very fascinating. Now that I've done a ton of them that I'm like, oh, okay, like Thankk God, I like was carefree early on and They didn't really like think about anything too much 'use you see other people that like or hear something from a producer like, I don't know if he actually li actually like I think he said something bad to someone else, and then you see him a spiral because The thing is on these shows is you don't have anything to do but think So you're sitting there thinking about everything. It the worst. It's crazy It's the worst. You know what's wild about that is everyone talks about how like we're so distracted in the world Yeah. but when you have nothing it's the most dangerous thing. The most dangerous. Yeah. because I remember being on a show and would sit down. wouldould it all be like chilling and it tell be like The curtain iss different today or like I see that they put an extra pot in it. I'm like yo, what the fug They're like something's happening today. Like there's an intruder coming. I'm like What?ike's a bombshell ' because there's new pop up. And they were like, ye, no, the chef didn't put out orange juices morning for breakfast Someone he someomeone's gay. Culike there's no OJ on the table. Yeah, yeah. They're like, say you didn't put three ice cubes in it You're gonna die. Yeah. It's fascinating. And then you just spiral from there. That's all you do. And then you get someone on board and once you have someone on board with your thought process, The whole place is falling up. It's like guys look at that quick. We have to go over here. We have to go see that. L see this extra camera there. see that cama pointing toward the toilet, someone must have been in there hooking up. Like it was so crazy. Yeah. but it's fun. It is fun. think It's fun. It seems like, well, actually, let me not put words in your mouth. Okay. What do you think allowed you then? Thrive in that environment. I think the thing that led me to thrive is I just Life is fun And like I just have that mentality of like Okay, like this isn't Like that it's like a crazy holiday, you know? like I get to go and have finding it drunken look out people and Whatever else, like sure it to on camera but then, um I don't know, I just never really over analyze anything. Like I'd just be like, okay, cool, like we're here to make a really good show, but also like I'm a fun guy. like I'm not gonna sit there and stress if someone's shoelace is a different color or if there's a new pop part or like this is going on. like I'll just be like, all right, like I'm just gonna be fun here and enjoy it. And that was the best thing is because My goal is like make my friends laugh Yeah, it seems like you stayed with that goal. That's the whole only thing. Yeah. It' like I just got to make my people happy. What do you think would Most shock people, especially about too hot to handle from behind the scenes. I think How many people were actually having sex? So do you know the show at all? Yeah But for anyone who doesn't, Okay. Yeahah, can explain it. So the premise of the show is they have a bunch of horny people and if you kiss, su Every show I guess. You know, every You kiss spoon, make out, have sex do anything, you lose money off the prize fund and there's one hundred thousand dollars up for grabs And yet anytime someone does that stuff, it loses money off the prize fund. So now all the new seasons of Tght the handles People try and kiss and have sex right away to get the screen time. Yeah.s I think whenever you have a second thirird, fourth series at her show Yeah It's almost never as good as the first because everyone is trying to go back and replicate what they saw. H's my idea. This is what I told them. It obviously didn't go anyway. I said If someone had sex, you should delete their Instagram. It's like that means something dude, shhackled, chain, everything, literally every every lock around me tape duct tape, everything I'm like literally, I'll be up in a tree. You're right? I'm not even talking to anyone and And that's what I said. I said, lookook, if you That would be a good curveball, but it'd have to be like a live show like Lve viland or something sh. It's like, look, how many followos you've got now. Well, if you miss this challengeer, It's going to get deleted or like banned for a week. when you tooot to handle Acording to my little research You had about one hundred forty thousand Did you have the most Yeah when you went in Yeah. And and psychologically though though takeake me to the time takeake me to the mind of Harry, okay. Yeah. So psychologically, what does that do having the most followers. I just wanted a social proof. I wanted because On this show, I wanted like people going I wanted my name also to be easily searchable. You know, if you have more followers, you're going to be easy type in Harry Obviously Harry Styles and whatever else, I wasn't really on the list. I'm like, I want to be easily searchable. that was the goal. Like I wanted the social proof And I wanted to be easy to find Smart manen. You know what, the other thing too is do you consider yourself a smart guy U sometometimes it's not my day No seriously. Yeah. Yeah, I think's eelligent. Yeah, I think so yeah. ye. Yeah. because I think also a lot of there's this notion I think Whenever you see someone do extremely well from reality TV ninety nine point nine percent of the times, they're brilliant And you may look at them and say, oh, well, look at what they're doing. No, it's what they're doing behind. It's everything that you just mentioned. Yeah. It's putting yourself in a position so that you'll be searchable so that this will boost. And then the result too was you walked away with, was it like point four million followers fourour and a half Oh You're like, Hece, S the fuck up. You're like, sit down the man. Hey Never get there wrong again, but' fucking updad I'm leaving Yeah. five on it on TikTok, little good. I've been counting. Yeah. I think there's what like maybe five hundred thousand on Snapschat too, but whatever whatever. couple hundred thousand on Facebook. No one' counting any of that.othing. I think like eleven million or twelve million total But that was just someone told me that Anyway, what was the questad again All right, so definitely Stay one. We still got work to do And if you want to hear the full unfiltered stories from today's guest, you can check them out We need to talk page. Drop a like, leave a comment And hit subscribe. See you next week This Father's Day when you ship UPS air at the UPS store, your items arrive on time with your money back, guaranteed at no extra cost. It's like the father of all shipping services. It shows up to the airport way too early, just to play it safe. It's overrotective about all the things that truly matter, and it's always prompt, especially to beiew with family, making your first choice to celebrate your dad Shhip UPS air with our money backack guarantee exclusively at the UPS store US retail locations. Visit the UPS store. com slash air shipping forpal details, terms and conditions apply