Historical Perspectives on Empowerment and Equality

a line that jumps out to me that you may remember from that speech is when he said referring to Butler I was saved by God to make America great again. And that is someone announcing to the country that he doesn't have to play by rules I'm Jane Kiston, and this is W Aoday, The show wondering if we will ever see the limits of Republican subservience to President Donald Trump Here's Texas Republican representative Troy News, for example. Donald Trump is the best thing to happen in this country in a hundred years He was born, he was born a very special baby This is for a president who has an approval rating of thirty four percent, according to USA today thirty four percent On today's showow, we talk to Ben Rhodose about Iran, Trump, and Ben's new book on how famous speeches show us how America has progressed since its founding Before we get into all that Here's what we're following today. Thursday, june eleventh Will it be more bombing tonight Yeah, there will be more bombing tonight. It'll be a Bigger, bigger, more powerful President Trump called into Foxing friends this morning a threatened more military action against Iran O the afternoon, maybe after taking a little nap and cooling off, he came to his senses In a post onntruth social, Trump wrote in part, quote I have, as president of the United States of America, canceled these scheduled strikes and bombings against Iran this evening Someone get this man a bike because he's backpaddling Trump added that quote Discussions and final points have been in both concept and great detail approved by all parties involved That includes the US, Israel, and other countries But I won't hold my breath. We'll talk more about why was Ben Rhodes later on the show Today, we just offered a simple, clean, three week extension of the FISA National Security laaw The Democrats, one hundred and ninety nine of them voted against a clean three week extension for political purposes. And when the bill went down Aought it They applauded it Yeah we de. House Baker Mike Johnson was up in arms today because a key surveillance tool that allows the U.S. to collect intelligence abroad without a warrant appears certain to expire. That's because both the House and Senate failed to temporarily extend Sction seven hundred two of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act Democrats said they will not support the renewal of the program in protest of Trump's temporary pick to head the nation's intelligence agencies Federal housing finance reggulator, Bill Pulti They want Trump to withdraw Poultty's appointment and nominate a permanent replacement And maybe Trump is feeling that pressure After the votes, Trump coincidentally announced he was tapping Jay. Clayton as his permanent pick for director of National intelligence. Clayton is the U.S. atttorney for the Southern District of New York and a former Securities and Exchange Commission chairman In a true social post, Trump encouraged the Senate confirm Clton ASAP writing, quote Few people anywhere in the legal community are respected at the level of J Say it with me Sure In the meantime, FBI Director Cash Patel is gearing up to chug Brwkies with the boys. I mean, take care of World Cup security challenges Pell told Reuters last month, quote, It's a huge lift, probably the biggest lift in FBI history, in American history Really You can't think of A single other big lift for the FBI in American history? He added, quote, literally the first week in office when I got to the FBI. I said we have to prepare for the Olympics, the World Cup, two Formula One races and the Super Bowl I feel like the FBI has some other things they could be focusing on And that's the news Let's talk about Iran and America Trump's war on Iran began in February, with Trump claiming that America was giving the people of Iran, quote the prosperous and glorious future that is close within your reach regime change message faded pretty quickly. and for the last three months, Trump has whipsied between ideas like paying Iran billions of dollars and bombing the nation into submission. Trump has changed a lot about American foreign policy and in my view, America I thought about that a lot while reading Ben Rhodes's new book Always say the battle for American identity, a History in fififteen spepeeches Trump tells the story of this country through speeches by figures like Ben Franklin, Martin Luther King, and yes, Donald Trump So I wanted to talk to Ben about what he learned writing the book and ask him what Trump's actions in Iran can tell us about his presidency and our country He Ben, welcome back to W todayay m Glad to be here as always So your new book, always sayay The Battle for American Iidentity uses fifteen speeches to outline centuries long debate over what it means to be an American And it feels like no one in the last fifty years has changed that debate quite as much as President Trump Your book closes with one speech from President Trump, and it wasn't the one I expected. You chose his second inaugural address What stood out to you in that speech I think what stood out is there are things when you go back and do two hundred and fifty years of American history in the debate we've been having about identity from the beginning There are things about Trump that are actually common to U. S history, and then there are things that are a departure And that speech encapsulates both of those things because if you go back the Racism, the xenophobia the kind of populism of the white working class that is targeted both smashing elites but also I'm suppressing others. the radical kind of America first isolationism the anti immigrant feeling that you know, rears its head every so often in this country, like all of those things We're in Trump's second inaugural speech. and they're also things that have obviously been prevalent through American history There's also something that's a departure, which is Trump's kind of singular focus on himself as being exempted from any of the agreed upon rules of political competition in this country. The line that jumps out to me that you may remember from that speech is when he said referring to Butler I was saved by God to make America great again. And that is someone announcing to the country that he doesn't have to play by rules.s he's operating in a different level. likeike the competition of stories of identity is over and he's won. And so therefore, he can start wars without asking for permission, Enrich himself and his family and his kind of cronies without permission or frankly, regard for laws and norms he can Igore the law when Iice is disappearing people without court orders and on and on And I think that's what's so disorienting now is that Trump is trying to declare this competition that we usually fight out in politics over. and he's also exempting himself from the rules. And by the way, his click, I start the chapter with the tableau of oligarchs from Elon Musk to Jeff Bezos who were giddily sitting behind him at that inauguration I think you know we're obviously at a pretty low point here in our two hundred fifty year history as we're about to experience with a UFC fight on the South laawn marking date Yeah. In that same speech, he also said, quote, We will measure our success not only by the battles we win, but also by the wars that we end and perhaps most importantly, the wars we never get into which has aged like milk startarted this war with Iran in Late February And back then, among the seventeen different reasons we were given for this war He said it was about Iranian regime change. He wanted Iran to take back its country and have that glorious future Thursday morning Today, he was talking about Kard Island, which is crucial to Iranian oil exports. So what is this war This war is something that I don't even think Donald Trump could tell you what it's about anymore. I think at the beginning he was talked into it by Bbe Netanyahu, I know that not just from the fact that that was reported widely, but Bib Nenanyhu tried to talk Barack Obama into the same war when I was in the White House for eight years. I think the reason he talked Trump into it is that he made him believe that it'd be easy that the Iranian regime would collapse. that you could kind of destroy their nuclear program, that this would be a great triumph And the reality is that every single justification they've given, they fail to measure up to. There's no regime change. That's clear. If anything, the Iranian regime is more entrenched and more hard line The nuclear program that Trump said is obliterated is still there, or else we wouldn't be desperately trying to get its stockpile of highly enrich uranium out of the country The military that they keep bragging is destroyed. Well, if their military is destroyed, how come they've down the straight of Horm mooz the Ballistic missile program Reports suggested up to seventy percent of it remains in place. This has just been a catastrophic waste of resources, lives, time impact on the global economy And he's just desperately looking for something to grab ono to claim a victory. but I think everybody can see that The costs are clear The benefits don't exist. and he can say all he wants about Carg Island and opening the strait, but I think people know that the strait was open before the war and Americans don't want to colonize Carg Island with U. S. service members Yeah, it's interesting because earlier this week, Trump said we were just days away from a deal with Iran. But that's becoming like the two weeks thing Trump has because he's been saying this for months now How can we get to a deal if he keeps moving the goalposts And Iran doesn't care I think that the problem that we're in is that everybody knows what the deal would be The Iranians open up the strait The U. S. lifts this blockade we have on Iran Iran is going to have to get some revenue from sanctions relief, billions and billions of dollars worth. And then you try to negotiate some nuclear deal that probably looks something like Obama's nuclear deal, where they still have a program But you know, they ship the stockpile out as they did under the Obama deal and they accept some restrictions on their program as they did under the Obama deal And I think what's happening is There are three parties to this war Israel doesn't want it to end. Netanyahu kind of needs a war to justify his political survival. Iran feels like it has all this leverage because they've taken our strongest punch. They're still there and they can close the strait of Hormuz And Trump desperately wants to make it appear. that when he does make these concessions and give Iran a bunch of revenue from sanctions relief that he somehow won a military victory And so he's periodically trying to bomb them and make it look like whatever deal happens happened because he's so tough. but I don't think anyone buys it. You know And at some point because of the economic impact of this war on the whole world he'll just have to accept that It is what it is. He'll try to spin it. Um, but I, you know, every one of these, you know times that we hear that deal's imin it feels like it's meant to kind of impact markets more than is an imminent deal. But one of these times the stop clock will be right and Trump will spin it, but you know, it won't change the fact that this war is onene of the dumbest and most catastrophic things that have happened in American foreign policy and that's saying a lot given our track record We'll be back in just a moment with more on Ben's new book highlighting some of the most influential American speeches in history. If you like the show, make sure to subscribe, leave a five star review on Spotify and Apple podcasts, watch us on YouTube, and share with your friends. More to come after some ads What a day is brought to you by zebiotics? Let's face it. After a night with drinks, I don't bounce back the next day like I used to I have to make a choice. I can either have a great night or a great next day That is until I found pre alcohol Zebiotics pre alcohol probiotic drink is the world's first genetically engineered probiotic It was invented by PhD scientists to tackle rough mornings after drinking Here's how it works. When you drink, alcohol gets converted into a toxic byproduct in the gut It's a buildup of this byproduct, not dehydration that's to blame for rough days after drinking Free alcohol produces an enzyme to break this byproduct down Just remember to make pre alcohol your first drink of the night, drink responsibly, and you'll feel your best tomorrow Every time I have pre alcohol before drinks, I notice a difference the next day Even after a night out, I can confidently plan on working out without worry. Go to zebraatics d. comashWad to learn more and get fifteen percent off your first order when you use Wad at checkout. Zebiotics is backed with a one hundred percent money back guarantee So if you're unsatisfied for any reason, they'll refund your money. No questions asked Remember to head to zeiotics d. com slash Wad and use the code Wad at cheheckout for fifteen percent off This podcast is sponsored by Kasper er makes reliable, high quality mattresses designed to deliver consistent, comfortable sleep night after night Casper's mattress are highly rated by consumer reports and out of ninety nine mattresses, consonsumer repeports named Casper's The one mattress, their top rated all foam mattress of twenty twenty six If you're in the market for a new mattress or a mattress upgrade, head to casper. com and save twenty percent off on the mattress you deserve Caspper's mattresses are designed to be durable and long lasting, so you're not replacing your mattress every few years Their products are designed to withstand the test of time, maintaining support and comfort over the long haul And Casper has their one hundred night risk free trial, so you can give Casperper's mattress a try risk free although with hundred and ten thousand five star reviews, I'm sure you're gonna love it like I do I've been on vacation for the last week and I had an amazing time But you know what I missed my Casper mattress There is no show sponsor I use more than my casper mattress, and I am so happy to get to share them with you Right now, save up to twenty percent on mattresses when you go to caspper. com One last time. at csper. com and save up to twenty percent on the mattress you deserve. Let's get back to my conversation with Ben Rhodes Turning back to your book, one of the speeches that you chose that I was really interested in was by Maria Stewart She gave it in eighteen thirty two. And you'll write that it is the first recorded speech given by a Black American woman to a mixed race, mixed gender audience I qun't stop thinking, Ben about how her demands for black empowerment. She says, quote Where are the names of our illustrious ones? They're being made in the midst of slavery. H demands for black empowerment and for a conversation about the black community Sounds like something that could have been said in nineteen sixty five or that Jesse Jackson would have written in nineteen seventy two Why did you choose that speech I chose it for a number of reasons. I mean, first of all, this it's such an extraordinary person in story. She She loses her husband, she loses all of her money She loses her pastor who is a very famous pioneer of the Black Church, Thomas Paul And she shows up in the office of William Lloyd Garrison The most prominent white abolitionists, the publisher of the Liberator, an abolitionist newspaper. And she just has something to say. and Garrison sees this immediately and she has four speeches that are recorded Clearly were like a bolt of lightning in the black and abolitionist community in Boston. People knew at the time This woman had something worth listening to. It was reprinted in the Liberator And so I think in the first instance, her message, which combined The demand for black rights and black empowerment with a demand for women's rights and women's empowerment through education very contemporary. It felt like, you know, she was talking about intersectionality before That was a word. She was talking about women's rights before Seneca Falls. She was talking about abolition in an uncompromising way before Frederick Douglas. And I think American history is full of these people who've been forgotten But who are quite impactful. because her words clearly entered the kind of subconscious of these movements and then help inform peopleeople like Frederick Douglas and those that come after And again, I also included it because Those words would have been forgotten except for the fact Late in her life, Maria Stewart is living in Washington, DC, and she finally gets access to her husband's pension because he had fought in the War of eighteen twelve. Black people were fighting in America's wars before the Civ War And she uses all of that money to reprint her own speeches. And I found something so poignty and powerful about that because we probably wouldn't have them, the record of them without her doing that And I think that if we want to figure out how we got here and who we are and where we might go We can't just look to the Lincoln's and Benjamin Franklins, although I have them in my book We have to look to the Maria Stewarts too because these people have something to tell us from history. And these people had an impact on history that has been too often whitewashed, which is a word that has many meanings Yeah, it was striking that throughout the book, like with you using the cornerstone speech from Confederate vice president, a noted loser, Alexander Stevens, which defended slavery as a positive good onn the eve of the Civil War It felt like each speech and I know this is a strange term for it was kind of rehashing, the same conversation from different views. Who's an American? whoo gets to be in charge? Wh matters? Do you think we will ever stop having those conversations I don't, you know, and I'm glad you saw that because that was kind of part of the intention is that We set up this country We compromise about identity, right? The Constitution left slavery in place. It did not really define who got the full rights of citizenship. It was pretty limited. it didn't really deal with immigration. and All the debates we've been having have been different versions of the same argument. that Maria Stewart makes her case Stevens is the next speech in the book and he's saying no, no, no no actually not just slavery, white supremacy is the cornerstone of the Confederacy. and the mistake of the founders was to talk about equality. and look, the issues change. it goes from You know, if you're just talking about race, it goes from slavery to segregation to I don't know, anti DEI but actually the arguments are eerily similar. and I think there's a lot of value in going back and looking at how different Americans made those arguments because on our side of it, the kind of progressive exceptionalism that America is a struggle to actually live up to the words in the Declaration of Independence And we can learn from the people who made those arguments before and built movements and how did they overcome circumstances that in some cases were even worse, you know, many cases actually than where we find ourselves in today. And look, I guess I will say as a hopeful note evenven though the arguments continue The country keeps getting more diverse We do get rid of slavery, we do get rid of segregation. immmigration does continue U The demographics of this country look different that kind of universal notion of American identity being available to anyone despite what Trump or Jie Vance might say That's actually the story that tends to win over time U so there's a positive trajectory, even if there is a kind of repetition of progress, backlash to progress, repeat, rinse, repeat Ben, as always, thank you so much for joining me. Thanks, it's great tal me That was my conversation with Ben Rhodes, co host of PodSave the World, and author of All We Say The Battle for American Ididentity, A History in fififteen Seches. We'll link to his book in the show notes Before we go Left wing political commentator and streamer Hassan Piker has been banned from entering the UK, but not from podcasting with our UK crooked media host Nish and Coco Pod say of the UK is your weekly fix of political news from across the pond This week, they're talking with Hassan about the current political fragmentation in the UK as the Labor Party attempts to unseat their prime minister and as far right politicians gain traction with hateful anti immigrant rhetoric, Tune in to new episodes of Pod Save the UK every Thursday on YouTube or wherever you pod That's off for today If you like the show, make sure you subscribe, leave a review, celebrate the clearly good vibes offered by the Wu Tang clan, and tell your friends to listen And if you're into reating. and not just about how the Woo performed at halfftime at game four of the NBA fininals, inspiring the Kick to come backack from down twenty nine points to win L like me What today is also a nightly newsletter. Check it out and subscribe at crooked dot com slash subscribe I'm Jane Koston And the Wu Tang cllan inspire victory And Donald Trump inspires defeat It appears that just one of these entities is Nothing to fuck with Water Day is a production of croukedia Our show is produced by Kitenlummer, Emily F, Erica Morris, and Adrian Hill Our team includes Hay Jones, Greg Walter, Matt Bg, Joseph Dutrra, Joanna Cay, and Desmond Tayor. O music is by Kyle Murdo, and Jordan Canter. We had helped today from the Associated Press. Our production staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Gild of America East