Concluding Thoughts on Masculinity and Elections

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Go to groundneews d. com slash next to get forty percent off your unlimited vantage subscription Groundneews dot com slash next. Use our link so they know we sent you. groundneews d. com slash next Hey everyone, headads up here at the top We're going to be talking about Maine Senate candidate Graham Platner's many scandals. supported this conversation before the most recent allegations surfaced in the New York Times These are stories from a few of Platinner's ex girlfriends who said he made them uneasy But they said that in very graphic and specific terms In any case, This episode is Frank aboutout sex If you've got little ears nearby. you've been warned Weppenstein Daniel Kritzlebin both here for what I am calling a family meeting U gum Ooh, this feels serious Danielle and Ken are both writers I follow online Ken publishes independently on Substack. Danielle reports over it NPR They break interesting stories. they can be funny. Here's what I want to know from both of you This past weekend When news broke about another scandal from Democratic Senate candidate, Graam Platner What kind of texts did you start to get The first ones I got were another one as in like another another scandal, another road bump for this guy And then it became How big of a deal is this gonna be Ken, what about you I heard some cynicism, things along the lines of o They really don't want him to win kind of thing Oh that's so interesting who is the they of that statement Well, in that case, it'd probably be like the idea that the media is focusing on this. They'd probably say something like Well, half of Congress is doing this kind of thing. Look at all the scamals we've seen the last year. Why is this the emphasis or focus of this particular election Okay, so mildly conspiratorial. Maybe it's how I would characterize that. Low confidence in institutions Yeah. I mean, Graham Platner, I'll introduce him for people who don't know him Senate candidate in Maine, running against Republican Susan Collins. he's cultivated this hyper masculine aesthetic I think we'd all agree on that, like early on. It was revealed he had this tattoo associated with Nazis, a toten cuff skull and crossbones. He later got it. He changed it. so it was not that anymore He's had some unflattering posts on Reddit Um, The most recent allegation against him, the one that came out this past weekend is that he'd been exchanging sexually explicit text messages of women outside of his marriage. He's been married for a short period of time Um, I kinda say My chats also popped off But basically it was all kinds of people asking, what do I do with this information? Phaps you too are asking yourself this question What do I do with this information Maybe it's helpful to know Washington is pretty stumped here too Platner himself went to Capitol Hill this week He was there to court the support of people he hopes are gonna to be his colleagues next year It was Weird after spending half an hour with Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer Schumer got in front of cameras and repeated the same line Over and over The line was, we're going to beat Susan Collins and take back the Senate Well, I mean, it conveniently doesn't say Graham Platner is going to help us take back the Senate. He's just saying we will. you know, whether via Graham Platner or someone else, that's what I take from that. The problem is like ignoring Platner's pilile upp of scandals doesn't seem to make them go away to me. Yeah Grab Platner and his wife in the campaign have the best possible wrapping they can put on this, which is, look We went to couples counseling it's in the past, blahazi blah But I think it's just the fact that it adds to the line of, okay, here's a thing, here's another thing, here's another thing And I think it could create in voters' minds this picture of Well, what else don't we know? Who even is this guy? Can we like, do we want to send this guy to Washington Kan, I wonder if you think This revelation does something different I don't know This situation may feel regular Dgular to some voters in Maine. Like, yeah, I've had trouble in my marriage. Uh reallyally pissed off my wife that one time, you know Yeah, I think that's right. And I went back and looked at the polling on his firstirst scandal about the tattoo. And I was surprised to see that it wasn't reflected at all. in opinion about him. So I expect that this will probably be the same not because people approve of it. I'm sure that You know, I hope everyone doesn't think that's a good thing that you're texting people who aren't your spouse Um, but because They see it and they almost see it as like a social proof of, oh, wow, he's an outsider becausecause this is not a typical candidate I mean, The thing that I thought of here and I've written about this before is that or at least in the middle of the Monica Lewinsky scandal Bill Clinton's approval ratings were at there . I remember like there is a quote that I've always thought of of There was a feminist who was interviewed around this time who said, I want a president who's alive from the waist down. Like there's this idea politician who not gonna use the word a politician who forks, you know, That's the kind of person we want. I really think that's true. And I think to some degree, there could be a feature, not a bug thing here for Graham Platinner Is Grah Platner to is he bad for cheating on his wife or How know is he too viral Today on the show. It seems like there might not be a scandal big enough to take down Graham Platinner. Why? I'm Mary Harris. You're listening to What Ne. Stick around There's never been a better time to get outside and experience the benefits of nature. Discover nearby trails and explore the outdoors with all trails. Download the free app today and find your outside Curious about the future of healthcare, Tomorrow's Cure, the chart topping and Ambi Award finalist podcast from Mayo Clinic brings it to you today I'm Kathy Worszer, and in this new season, I sit down with researchers, doctors, and industry experts who are leading the way in medical innovation From cutting edge technology to breakthrough treatments, we'll explore how new solutions are improving and even saving lives. In the season four Premiere, I'm joined by dermatologist Dr. Saranna Weiles, along with biomedical engineer Dr. Adam Feinberg to talk about how three D bioprinting is revolutionizing medical research and accelerating breakthroughs in health carere. It's a compelling look at the tools shaping tomorrow's treatments So go ahead, follow tomorrow's cure on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. I to introduce to you to my listeners before we go a lot further and just like explain why I wanted to talk to the two of you in particular Danielle, I called you up because you write about masculinity and politics. All the time, you think about it, you collect data on it. I knew you'd have things to say about how things in Maine are playing out Can you wrote this Very provocative blog post that I struggled with. I am gonna just like say that. L there were parts where I was like, Gy what But your thesis was that Graham Platner and his scandal It matters in that it reveals to you what Americans want right now, which is a complete rejection of business as usual in Washington. Is that fair, like what you were saying? Yeah, totally. It's a signal of outsiderness. People don't approve of what He did, and I've watched interviews of people in Maine and uniformly people said, that's not good. But I think that again, it has that paradoxal effect of saying, oh Well, he clearly didn't come up through the party apparatus. at a time when The Democratic Party has the lowest approval rating in recorded history But you did that you made this argument, I will say by calling business as usual politicians in Washington smooth groins as if they were sexless Ken dolls. Yes Amazing terminology that has lived rent free in my head for the last twenty four hours. Sing haunted me will haunt me Days to come And to be fair, you seem to know that this kind of terminology speaking in this way is going to bait people. You led with like, I'm going to lose subscribers over this one But if you're okay with this, I would love to start with Danielle just to walk through the basics of what happened this weekend with Graham Platinner because there's just a lot of weird internicing detail that I think is actually important to understanding the scandal. U because there have been rumors for a while now there was going to be something coming out of the Platinar campaign that's going to blow stuff up. Wallreet Journalals is the first to report it. Daniel, what exactly did they report So what the Wall Street Journal reported and then the New York Times confirmed it with some further reporting is that Shortly after Graham Platner announced that he was running for Senate, his wife came to the campaign and said, hey I want to flag this for you My husband had sent sexually explicit texts with multiple women. I want to flag this for you because it might be a liability. Planter was about to have like a big rally with Bernie, right? So it was this kind of like, oh, this big thing is happening Do I need to tell you about this, dude Yeah. And so it seems as if like his so his wife told a staffer, in the interest, it seems of full disclosure and making sure that everything was on the table And what seems to have happened is that that staffer, no longer with the campaign, has since come out and talked to reporters about this whole thing So that is the very short version of this. And what Graham Platner and his wife have said since then, they've been married, I believe, three years right now is that you this happened early in their marriage and that they have since gone to couples counseling and they are trying to move past it. So they are trying to say Open and close. this is our business, not yours We should flag that like this warning from Graham Platner's wife. It was about like potentially up to a dozen women. so it wasn't just like one woman or two women, it was like Potentially a lot of women, we don't know the details. And we should also flag the fact that like this staffer who's gone on the record talking about this, she's kind of in a thorn in the side of the planlner campaign for a while. This woman, Genevieve MacDonald, who had been the political director for the campaign, and she left when Platner's Nazi tattoo was like sort of in the discourse back in the fall. And she was like, this is too much for me, Gott to go. So she's been outspoken about this But it's interesting becausecause part of the reason she says she went on the record eventually about this was because she was threatened by the Like the Pider campaign came to her and was like Uh You essentially don't speak out and she's like, well, fine I'm speaking out. So it's just like a lot, there's a lot of fighting that I I can't quite make heads or tales of. There's a lot of individual people acting here Yeah. and there' the additional there's the additional bit. like one of the things that was revealed was that he was messaging people on this private I think it's arivate messaging app called Kick KI K with an account that appears to be his that shows Um It appears to be a mirror selfie of naked torso down with a towel around the waist. and so This is becoming a sort of Maybe a meme, you could call it among Republicans, a way to poke fun a Grand Platinner I saw a picture of some protes some anti fllatner protesters yesterday with towels around their waist at the protests. likeike this is this is This is where we are. so just thought I'd add that nice. All right, nice picture detail for you Yeah Let's talk about Platner's response because Grandplatter hasn't quite apologizeed for what happened. He said, you know, my wife and I went through something hard We did the work, I'm grateful for her And then Graham Platner from his account released like a five minute video of his wife kind of like taking fire for him and saying essentially You know, I have worked through this in my marriage and I'm angry that this has all come out I find it really shameful that there's a group of Media outlets and people who are willing to spread goossip Um inststead of talking about real issues that Graham is is running on like Healthca and education ten What did you make of this response from Platner? Beacause it's I have to say, if you look at the responses to this video from Platner's wife online People aren't loving it. They're like, why are you letting your wife take the heat here Yeah, I thought it undercut the whole gender frame of him. I mean, is a gender stereotype that he'd be very aggressive and get out there and be like, I have nothing to apologize for And he hid behind his wife, which I also found distasteful Um You know, you watch these sort of things and you don't really know. What's going on in people's heads? Maybe it's true what they're saying that Um, you know, he went to counseling and is addressing this. mayaybe that's you know, something they did so they could have something to say if it came out I don't know, but yeah, I watched it. I didn't think very highly of them for doing that Yeah I mean, but you essentially argue that compared with a whole lot of members of Congress raam Pnner's scandal is Kind of a normal one And it pales in comparison to say, Swalwell, who resigned from Congress earlier this year was running for governor of California and was accused. There were rumors about him for years, essentially and was accused of being incredibly coercive with women, including women on his staff U It's interesting because it's hard to make a comparison like that to me, simimply because Grand Platinner hasn't had power before. this way. You know what I mean? Like he just got a staff. So it's a little unclear from what's happened here What it means for him as an actual leader. Do you think that's fair Yeah, well, another one I think of is the horrible case of a Republican Cgressman Tony Gonzallez of Texas, who pressured his married staffer having sex with him. And she set fire to herself? Yeah, she killed herself by immolation. It's just like you can't make this stuff up And then I look at pllatinner and, you know, see what happened and think that's bad. But then I look at that and You know, you just mentioned Swalwell, Gates had to resign last year and it's like Um, you know, at least it was among consenting adults is sort of my had think we don't just know to say. As far as we know so far, I guess. Yeah. But, you know, people drawn to power tend to have certain personality traits. and I think people are pretty cynical about that at this point I certainly am And so that's the context in which I see this and having, you know, report in Washington for several years, I learned that there were a lot of things that don't get reported where you know, something like this text thing would come out. But there are other things that are sort of culturally seen as acceptable Interesting. And so peopleople see this and again, I haven't seen anyone say it's good that someomeone is cheating on or texting, however you want to call it I haven't seen anyone say that But what I have seen is people look at this and say You know, this sounds like one of the various demons that lots of regular people I know have. likeike I was saying before, whether that's drinking or you know, whatever other vice What are the things you think don't get reported on Capitol Hill Well, for instance, we were just talking about Tony Gonzalees, you mentioned before, Eric Swawell, that stuff that I had heard Rumors about for years I think there are lots of examples of it What do you make of it, Danielle? that like is Washington a cesspool and it's like better that we're honest about it Breath What do I say or I'll be honest while Ken was talking about that, I was thinking about his piece, which people should go read. And here's the thing that I'm wondering is okay, as if there are and We're talking about male candidates here. So let's let's stick to that for now because that seems to be what we're realm we'reperating, I think we're to come back to women. So okay, you got the smooth marines at one end of the spectrum. You got I think the people you mentioned were Pete Btigage and Sb aew, maybe have as Yes, there was a third one. Cory Booker ry Booker Yeah, the people that had briefcases in high school and roller backpacks, that kind of thing. and they they've had plans like Ted Cruz had plans to be president since they were like zygosts Right. Sure. fully understood, I wan to be clear. I personally a reporter, I take no position on whether these guys are smooth growing.ike, I wantanna make that abundantly clear N notot my circus, not my monkeys. but Okay, so you got these guys at one end of the spectrum who you're characterizing as smooth groins who are not showing, it seems like like not really showing themselves to be sexual beings, essentially, right? Like Yes. L the thing I use is like I love Lucy where they, you know, the two the married couple goes to separate. in twin beds. Exactly, that kind of thing. Like it feels very airbrushed for a public that I think maybe used to exist fifty years ago, and it's not really the case now Well I think part of your argument is like, they may be the smooth groins in the streets, but something else in the sheets. That too. Yeah. I mean, this is like, But this is curated image This this is what what I'm wondering. So you got the smooth gs over here and over here, you have Men who are who have scandals of various types from the horrifying like Eric Swalwell to the as far as we know, you know, consenting adults, like other people. okay Is there a happy medium here a politician who is somewhere between you know, the H P politician from a Zygoat thing to the be deviled by scandal Hi. someone who at least, you know, is not Is there an example you can think of someone who's not full of scandal, but who at least is not you know, the squeaky clean dude over here. Well, I don't think anyone doesn't have demons, do you? I mean, I think everybody has some. I'm not saying that it's all the same. There's worse and better, but I imagine everybody has some they're not proud of or ugly about their past Right totally. I think what I'm I think what I'm trying to get at is of course because, you know, Coreoryy Book or Gevin Newsom people to do as far as we know, they have skeletons in their closets too, Who doesn't? I get that What I'm wondering is Is there a way for like like you said, this Graham Plattenner's seexting with multiple women. evenven if it's bad shows that he is A u. that he is relatable to some degree, that he has skeletons like anyone else Is there is there something that is less than A guy who's sexed with people outside of his marriage that still shows to voters like, hey, he's like you But it's, but it's not all the way in headadlines about a scandal territory I would argue someone like Alexandria Ocasio Cortez does this by saying like I was a bartender before I was in Congress. Do you know what I mean? It's That's not explicitly sexual, but it is something that is atypical And I think what Daniel, what you're getting at here is something that like your piece ended so strongly in this way that was so compelling to me We basically said Platner's story is a pretty common one This and other scandals sound a lot like other former Marines, I know. So when Washington acts like it's disqualifying, what they're really saying is that ordinary people aren't fit for higher office. And I think that is true. I think that is like a feeling that people have of being shut out. So I had a very viccal reaction to latinner who I'm actually critical of the story at don' you know, love, I call him a dumb ass in story. but something that I am a national security reporter, primarily, that's what I cover in the newsletter And I know former Marines and his story sounds I'm not going to say like most Marines were like that, but it sounds very common. Like I know several Marines getting a tattoo that Again, I can't read his mind. I don't know what he was saying at the time. But the idea that you're a nineteen year old getting a tattoo and you don't know what it means That's a lot of Marines are like that And then you hear something like this I'm not saying that they're old xting a dozen women But infidelity, you know, substance abuse problems, that's Common So again, that's not to say any of it is good But I think people look at that and they themselves have their own problems and they say Well, this is Washington saying someone like me is not allowed to participate. We're not allowed to be a part of this. It has to be the smooth groins are these people that have been u cultivated and sort of like groomed for a position like this. since they were sixteen and they feel resentful about that And I can understand that U And so I think that's kind of what's going on and the story was taken to be a gender thing, which it really wasn't. and I don't think it is because I look at the polling around Platinner and I was surprised to see that he has a majority support among women and men actually prefer Collins And so when I say something like smooth Gin, I was taking to mean like not a man. That was not my point. I'm saying something without sexuality, without a sexual organ So like, Susan Collins would be this sort of establishment figure who's like very careful on what she says and sort of moderate and doesn't stick her neck out on things And so that would fit that as well And I think when you look at I mean there Obviously someone like Platinner with this very sonorous voice and he's this tough former Marine That is an element in all of this But I think that again, I think it's much more subtle than just gu like him because he's a guy because first of all, polling doesn't show that But second of all, I think it's the unapologetic nature of it that says, wow, this guy really didn't come out of central casting among the Democratic Party that's like, you know, sensitive to gender questions and doesn't want to I don't want to say they punish being masculine, but you know, it's like treated with some degree of skepticism. It's like, is this guy going to be a jerk? Is he going to be retrograde in his attitudes and things So so yes, gender has a role, but I think it's again, Insofar as it signals, is he an outsider or is he not a typical candidate. I guess I think what Daniel was getting at because there' something that I had noted too was that I felt in your piece there was this idea that there was a binary. You're either like a smooth groin in Washington or you're like a grand pllatiner. And I do feel like it's more complicated than that, but I think The issue is that right now in Maine, it is a binary. The choice is Graham Platner or Susan Collins and that's it. And so it's like so right, but Platner's appeal I don't think it's that he's a man. It's that he's an outsider. and then Collins happens to be a woman, but she's also a consummate insider who has been friends with all the leadership and Congress for basically as long as I've been alive. But he's signing outsiderness with all of this masculine stuff. In one way In one way is. and another way. In another way, he's signling outsiderness by having problematic views that he expressed on Reddit, which would be which would have been disqualifying in a previous era Um, he's signaling outsiderness by being a former Marine, he's signaling outsiderness by not having come up through the party structure and defeated a governor a sitting governor So there's all kinds of different ways. Yes, gender is one, but I think it's one of an entire List of different things appeals to people I'm going to push back here and say that one of his Reddit posts was suggesting and I'm paraphrasing here that sexual assault victims I believe the phrasing was should take some responsibility. That is gender. That is. I said gender is one of them But I'm saying that there are other ones as well Right. a large part of Platner's appeal and why he has captured So much attention on a national level. This is I admit, this is my personal opinion But I think it is because the Democratic Party especially after losing two elections with women at the top of the ticket. And winning one with a very old man at the top of the ticket has been looking for a strapping fellow or at least for some sort of person or for more of those. And when a guy came out and said, I'm an oyster farmer and in his ad, he swings a kettlebell The swooning coverage, it was either the I think it was the new Republic that did this like fawning profile of him where his boxers were sticking out of his jeans. Flattenner. grabbed attention by being something that Democrats don't have a lot of which is A A blue collar man or at least a picture of a blue collar man is ready made to put on a pedestal and that is why everybody is paying attention to him. Again, I really don't think this would be happening if he were Jill Platinner. I I don't I don't think you would have this kind of attention at all. Yeah, I mean, I think we should talk about that. Because it's like while we're sort of reveling in Platner's transgressions, I just think it is worth considering whether Anyone other than a white man in particular, would be allowed by voters and commentators to like transgress in quite the same way as Plner has Like, I was thinking the analogue to me was Christine Oome. the on the female side where it's like there's so much chatter about like who's she with, you know, what's up with her and Corey Lewwandowski, blah blah, blah. So much of her is about that And in the middle of all that, she lost her job as like the Secretary of Homeland Security. We We certainly weren't celebrating it for her having whatever the opposite of a smooth grin is for a woman. Well and I would just interject that I think from what I know of people I talk to and so on Christy Nman Cor Lwindowsk it almost became like a side plot that was a joke. I mean, she because she had You know Other issues in her job. She was overseeing DHS when Federal agents killed two people in Minneapolis like that And so but besides that, yeah, you over here and then there was, you know, spending money on this fancy airplane, all of that. But then over here you have her her and Corey Lundowski and And then that story that broke about her husband and his Sexual proclivity. sorry. I off Sexual proclivities. Let's say that I mean, I think it all and those proclivities included, you know, dressing as a woman And I think I mean, which is to just say that That became a very complicated storyline, but it was all just, I think to a lot of people, a circus act to point out, to just kind of laugh about. It was almost more of a, I mean, a sideidesh, I think, is what I'm trying to say here. It wasn't pro cllutching. Yeah, I think that's true Yeah, which is something. I think it was just gawking. Yeah Yeah, progress. yeay We'll be right back After a quick break We all belong outside We're drawn to nature, whether it's the recorded sounds of the ocean we doze off to, or the succulents that adorn our homes Nature makes all of our lives well, better. Despite all this, we often go about our busy lives removed from it. But the outdoors is closer than we realize. With All Trails, you can discover trails nearby and explore confidently. withith offline maps and on trail navigation, download the free app today and make the most of your summer with All Trails Has someone in a black robe stolen your freedom? overturned your rights, threatened your citizenship? you may be entitled to compensation H Not really. But you might want to follow Amicus Stlate's leegal podcast, hosted by me, Dllia Lithwick, and me, Mark Joseph Stern. We're heading into the Supreme Court's end of term decision frenzy, and this year's raft of rulings could literally change what it means to be an American. We call this month of Madness opinion Pallooa And we're bringing you extra episodes, expert guests, and explanations of what's happening at the High Court in terms you can understand Follow Amicus wherever you get your podcasts, That's AMICUS One thing that's so interesting to me about the reaction to Graham Platinner Um is that so much of it is projection simply because he hasn't done anything really yet And so it like he's this blank canvas for everyone to talk about. Like Ken, your piece was referenced in this article in Jacobin magazine, which I thought was really interesting. Like the title of this article was, Judge Platner's character by how he fights the oligarchs which I actually think' like a fair point. like we should be judging our politicians by the metric of like what they're doing for us in Washington. that should be our primary metric But we literally have no idea how he fights how it works. So it's like Right now this is all we have. and u It's just about his character, which is maybe unfair, but it's also just like us trying to get a grip on who this guy is and who he will be. I just wonder if That resonates for you, Ken? Yeah, totally. That would be my chief criticism of him. I couldn't tell you in a sentence what he stands for Um, contrast someone like Zuran Mamdani who I could say you know, he wants to freeze the rent, he wants uh, you know, univervers he wants child care very clear message. You don't have that in Platinir. What you have is I think what's most prized right now, which is that He's from outside of the party infrastructure The party, which again has the lowest approval rating in recorded history, leadership in particular, like Chuck Schumer urging his opponent, his main opponent in the primary. Janet Mills to run, a long time friend of hers and kind of an embodiment of exactly what lost the Democrats power, which is She's seventy eight years old. She's an insider. She's been in office for Uh, you know, again, as long as I've been alive And then here you have someone who is the opposite of all those things. including in terms of the kind of image that the party projects around gender, but also uh, around not having Inn on the hill. when he was younger, not having, you know, worked in the political space Um and I think that this people's willingness to Let's see a scandal like this and say, yeah, that's bad and say, but I'm still voting for them is a reflection of how fed up they are with that system I was describing before and the candidates that it produces Yeah. Yeah. I mean in this Jacobin article, there was this line that was so striking to me, which is like Basically, tattoos, shit posting and marital controversies aren't scandals. Invading Iraq was a scandal, foreclosing on tens of millions of people was a scandal. attacking Iran was a scandal which I think you know, I I see the logic there But I do wonder If that's what Graham partner voters are seeing in him like I don't No. But to be right? There's a lot of project It sort reminds of Trump. When his followers would project all these qualities onto him just because they look at the establishment and they see that they that they hate him And they say, oh, great, well, that means that must mean that he wants you know, what I want? And it's sort of similar in Platinner because u You know, there's all it I mentioned earlier the Senate leader Schumer pushing for the other candidate to run and I believed money towards her. Yeahah. Yeah. And then Platinner is something extraordinary. He said an interview he said, I would not support Schumer for majority leader in the Senate whichich I can't think of a precedent for something like that. Someone running saying, yeah, that the chamber I'm going to serve in. I don't support the gun. I mean, this is really And so that signals to that base like not only am I an outsider, I want to oust the people that constitute the the system as it exists. And so I think I think that's the main appeal and it doesn't seem to have a whole lot. I mean He's had in his campaign ads talking about Susan Collins role voting for the Iraq War, which is compelling. but other than that, I don't have a clear picture of what his of what his, you know policy preferences are aside from I'm not I'm not that. You know what I mean And so risees of Trump in that sense It also reminds it reminds me and I think a lot of people of John Fetterman who notot a perfect analogue because he was in politics He did have a political background, which Graham Platinner does not I think there was also a lot of projection onto Fetterman as this, you know, he He also seemed like novelty, this big hulking bald guy who wears cargo shorts and kind of oozes blue collar manly appeal And I think a lot of people really were like, Oh, He seems like me, sure and For a variety of reasons, he has disappointed quite a few people in the Democratic Party. And I think that And That is not to say that Grand Platinner is going to turn on voters, but it's just to say that like When you are projecting, as people did with Trump at any number of very personable politicians, then you run the risk of overlooking some someome view they might have that you might not like Yeah. I mean I'm glad brought Fteran. becausecause like here's the problem I see Um, think Behavior like what we've seen allegedly from Graham Platner is part of a spectrum, right? It could indicate he's a reckless guy and he will be a loose canon personersonally, professionally, if and when he wins election, right? We don't know. It could also indicate he's learned some lessons the hard way rightight? Like that's also a real thing. He He's not saying I love my Nazi tattoo. He's saying I'm covering it up. He's not saying I love my sexting with other women. He's saying we've worked through some difficult things, okay But we're not gonna to know any of that until he's in office And for me, I'm not a main voter, but I look at this and I'm like, my problem is seem like zero ability for leaders in Washington to appropriately manage bad behavior.