The Future of the UFC Brand

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The Nobel Peace Center called it an excellent way to stay informed, avoid echo chambers, and expand your worldview Go to groundneews. com slash next to get forty percent off your unlimited vantage subscription ground News. com slash next. Use our link so they know we sent you. Groundneews d. com slash next If you're like me You have seen a whole lot of pictures of what's happening on the White House lawn these days. And these images are not being framed in the most flattering way President Trump is floating the idea of making his big UFC arena on the White House South laawn Pment installment. You can see the structure. These pictures show what's being called the claw a massive metal structure snaking into the sky It's got neon lights, stars, stripes And it is where this Sunday President Trump will host a series of UFC fights Ostensibly for Fagdayay, but the fourteenth also happens to be his birthday Your president At the White House is erecting at ninety foot tall. which used to be the East wing I this image right here reveals both the president's priorities while people pay more for gas and we're at war and just the kind of chaotic situation you get when you don't have oversight and you don't have a Congress that has Really enforce anything, so the president can just demol. The jokes about this structure are abundant I'll admit, I chuckled when someone said it looked like there was now six flags at sixteen hundred Pennsylvania Avenue But when I called up podcaster and reporter Luke Thomas He said, for MMA This spectacle is not new People just want good fights They just want good fights. And what they want with good fights is they want big atmosphere. For example, a few weeks ago, one of the very best boxers in the world, a Ukrainian guy by the name of Alexander Usk, he had a fight, a pretty controversial one ultimately from the way it ended. But the point I'm trying to make is in the background was the pyramids of Giza They were literally outside the pyramids of Giza. That's what fight fans like. A show. A show A show. They want a big show. Everybody loves a show. Let's be real. I have different feelings. I mean, I understand that perspective. I real I totally get it. For me though, I think everyone's just making a really fundamental error here. Everyone is focused on the lights and how it looks. I though believe, as someone who's been covering MMA for about two decades, is that the real story here is the union between the UFC and Trump for mutual gain and it is not small mutual gain. It is substantive This weekend is more a wedding between two brands and this is the wedding party, so to speak You cover Mix martial arrts as a journalist. You've trained to fight, too, right? I mean, I'm old now I'm an old man now, but I mean, there was a time in my life where you young. You have that meen though. You look like you trained to fight. I mean, I wouldn't want to you know look like a sh, I suppose. Yeah. likeike No, that's not what I meant by that. It's quite al right. Yes, in fairness. go if you're invited No. no I find Donald Trump to be one of the greatest threats politically of my life. I'm forty six years old. I find him to be irredeemable and I want absolutely nothing to do with him if at all possible I gotta say every description I read about how this event go down. does not make it sound enticing likeike the claw, this structure, this metal structure. It turns out it would be a real liability. in the case of lightning, rain. The whole thing could be shut down because of that. So it's like you could have thousands of people coming in and then if there's like a thunderstorm, you gott to get out of there real fast and that sounds awful Then there are the bugs, like even Dana White, the head of the UFC himself has speculated there's going to be a ton of bugs who might sizzle under the lights and then rain down on the spectators That sounds gross. I mean, is there a chance this goes really badly I think that there's a lot of people My people People on the left who really want to imagine that this whole thing will come crumbling down. The only thing that would get it cancellled is actually not rain. It would just be light lightightning would be the thing. That's the one that they've said, Yes, if there's lightning, that's a problem. But short of that It's it's it's full seam ahead. I'm not too I mean On some level, I'm just like you. It's Are you thinking people on the left They just don't get how durable The UFC is Here I was I am so glad you asked that One of the biggest mistakes that people make is they look at the UFC and they're like These are all barbarians. And yeah, it's a big business, but it's a barbarian business for barbarian people. How smart could any of these people be They are so much more clever than you could ever imagine They've got a McGiver culture like they're problem solvers to the Nth degree And then the second thing I would say is these aren't extremely driven people, the more people complain about this event more they're going be motivated to drive it in everyone's face Tay on the show. Ething you need to know about President Trump's big birthday bash on the White House lawn I'm Mary Harris. You're listening to What nexte Stick around What if a marginal gain unlocked greater performance. What if an insight in data could change everything at a RAMco Our focus on detail helps us deliver reliable energy to millions across the world. Because margins aren't marginal They' where we can truly push the limits of what's possible A RMco. an integrated energy and Chemicals company Lear more at arramco. com Hey, Pablo Torere here. As a sports journalist, I've covered gllobal sports for many years now. And there iss one thing that I can promise you Nothing compares to the World Cup And this time it is even better thanks to McDonald's. 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Trump Um And the UFSC has already done a lot for Donald Trump, and Donald Trump is doing a lot for the UFC let's get into how this mutually beneficial relationship is working as you see it Everyone makes an argument the wrong way about this Everyone will tell you, oh, what did what did UFC do for Donald Trump? And they'll say, you know, in one of the things that commonly gets repeated back to me, for example is they'll say, you know, Dana White spoke at you know, various Republican national conventions and you, he's been Three of them. Yes, three of them. And in fact was the one that brought out Trump rather than Melania at the last one, which is also sort of a special designation. His real wife is Dana White. Y. That's right, Exactly. and that, you know, but there's the big one. Theyll say Oh, yeah, he got treated real nicely at UF events No, no Let me set the terms here so everyone can just visualize this Between the preliminary and the main card, the main card is like if you bought a paper view, that's when the main card starts, right like nine or ten PM. boom, right there. He gets a walkout on the broadcast between the preliminary and the main card with Dana White. He has a special walkout music that's kid rock cover of Metallica. called American badass. He's walking out with We have Tuckle Carlson, Elon Musk, Mike Johnson, Tulsy Gabbard, you name it He goes and gets seated not in the box by the cage. So at a bare minimum, he's right there. The commentators are literally gladhanding him talking about him, how great it is that he's there. And then the fighters quite literally geniflect before him. They'll put their belt on him. Now ask yourself a question If you are a political candidate for office because he was not sitting president from twenty one to twenty four If you are a political candidate and you're looking for third party mainstream validation Where could you go to buy something that can reward you like that? It's not even available for sale When were they doing this after january sixth cllose to Jack Smith indictments when when he was found guilty of the thirty four felonies in New York, like when the long arm of the law was descending on him. That's when they had his back. This event This weekend is a political reward for that for keeping him out of prison for returning this political project power. That's why we're here Um, Shortly after the White House match was announced, Donald Trump bought Up to fifty grand in shares of TKO group That's right He had bought fifty thousand shares of TKO, the parent company of UFC, which also owns WWE. Isn't this a conflict of interest? Of course, it is. There's another sinister element to all of this too, namely The Muhammad Ali American Boxing Revival Act People don't realize this. Boxing has federal legislation that gives the boxers some protection. Protection from what? Like protection from being managed poorly, from too much injury, what? From Fom managers becoming promoters at the same time from being able to audit the promoter to make sure you know exactly who's making money, how much, right to be able to keep them in check. Wild that there's a federal law here. John McCain put it in place, if you can believe it. He shepherded that through because boxing really needed some regulation Cira two thousand TKO. they want to strip this out so that they can run UFC or they want to run boxing like they run UFC where they've been sued by their own fighters for alleging any number of labor practices that they violated He's buying stock at a time where not only Is he having this event on his lawn? but then on top of it, they want to just literally the rebar of the concrete of federal legislation that has protected boxers for a generation All of that is in play here You mentioned like this is one of the first things that Congress took up when they came back into work in twenty twenty six. Donald Trump certainly was pushing it through ere's the thing I'm maybe not getting about this. It seems to me this legislation actually had a lot of bipartisan support. Iilhan Omar spoke about it from the floor. She said, Okaykay, the Senate needs to make this stronger in some way, but it just seems like everyone was behind it. So it doesn't seem like it's a clear story of Trump doing something for himself here. So why does it feel like that to you I was the only media member who attended those hearings at the House Education and Workforce Committee. and what I found was that It's weird Democrats in Congress will get up there and they'll say things like, you know what the problem is right now in modern America? You know, you only got you got Srints, you got Verizon, you got just a couple of carriers. you want to go book a flight, you got just a you, a handful monopolies. That's a big thing. I mean, there are big monopolies in sports, but like TKO is an unequivocal mononopoly. And again, they're being sued by the on the UFC side by their fighters over and over and over again To me, it was shocking to watch the Democrats lay down. but I mean I'll just say, and I'm sure your audience already understands this, the Democratic party laying down is something that they've actually shown themselves to be quite good at ation that Trump himself is making money off of the event on the White House lawn? or is there a longer play here where it's like an investment in TKO And this is a promotional event that will get them a lot of attention. so it elevates them in the industry He wants the shine of what a UFC event like this can make him look like. He wants this. I mean, he wants a broader relationship. I mean, they're going they're going to sign a memorandum of understanding tomorrow as of the time of this recording anyway. between Donald excuse me, between Secretary of State Marcco Rubio and Dana White to as a public private partnership to they didn't exactly specify. I'm guessing treat UFC like it's USAID. I'm not exactly sure, but like Secretary of State, Margar Rubio and UFC CEO Dana White have reached an agreement to use cage fights for diplomacy. So I don't know what they're actually going to announce. What I do know is they put out an announcement earlier this week that on Thursday of Fight Week There's going to be a signing for a public private partnership I mean, again, you got this is what I got need people to understand. TKO's business runs heavily on taxpayer dollars. TKO will go to a city or a state And they'll say we got a deal for you. Here's what we'll do We're going to bring WrestleMania We're going to bring a UFC event and we'll bring some other smaller subsidiary sports brands that we own,' make it a big occasion for you guys. We're going to bring all this tourism here. We're going to bring people in Phillip hotel rooms and you name it. What we want you to do is give us what they call site fees. pay us to be here and we'll be here and we'll make this deal. They do this more than they ever have in the history of this organization. That's just the, that's just the start of it. So I'm try to point out Government large and favoritism features directly into how TKO operates Well, it's a fair point, but I would also say like Plenty of sports teams run like that, right? Like it's like they get governments to fund their stadiums and things like that. they get favorable terms to deliver something that they say is of value to the local community Sure, the These are These are questions for taxpayers in the local municipalities. What I'm trying to just point out is leaning on the government to basically subsidize the business while not new is a growing and important part of how TKO functions Well I guess what you're saying too is that it seems like TKO is becoming very enmeshed with the federal government in a way that maybe we haven't seen before, I don't recall anyway. And you could argue the Olympics is something where the federal government has an interest in bringing that to the country or something like that. But I'm trying to think of like another activity like this that would have had federal involvement in this way. It really seems like what you're saying is like The UFC and the federal government are beginning to have this real hand holding relationship in a way that's new That is this is new. I mean, people have said to me, o, was this the plan between these two entities all along? I don't think so. I think that there was some ideological symmetry between them Circuit twenty sixteen and even more twenty twenty post pandemic. and then there is this, you know, rehab effort that goes into play Understanding what levers to pull in Trump world to skim off the top, to make money, how to enrich people, how to give contracts to those who we want to give no bid contracts to or whatever it ends up being, that became much more a regular way in which they have operated. And I think now UFC is kind of getting sucked into Trump world in that same kind of way Do you have like a theory of the case in your head for why This relationship between Donald Trump and Dana White is so tight. U's that's a more debatable one. that that one's a little less conclusive to me. I'll just tell you my opinion My opinion is that there is more ideological symmetry between them than they let on publicly, notot complete But like for example, I haveve heard Dana say things like Um He's defended Trump's immigration policies. Its not like he does it in a very general sense, but when people challenge him on it, he's like, no, I think he's doing the right thing and he's getting rid of the bad people. And I've heard him say Kamala only won states where there was no voter ID laws, which as a matter of factly not true. So do you think Dina White's a believer? I think he is largely a believer in him What about the fighters themselves? Like, are they largely MAGa aligned? Yes Yes. How did that happen U That's a great question. I've had former UFC champions actually write me relatively recently to tell me they appreciateated my coverage, but they don't dare speak out, right? That's the thing that they don't want to do. Why? What do they fear? They fear Dana White? Yeah. I mean Of course, what else? I mean, this is an industry tightly controlled by a handful of people like you get sideways with them you know, you better have a plan B. That's kind of the answer that I would give To answer the question about the fighters and their political proclivities The best way that I understand it is one, there might be something to the nature of MMA itself or combat sports anyway where this one on one, almost like up from the bootstraps, Horatio alger, overcoming, show of strength. thing naturally recruits them. I think that could be part of it. The reality is the vast majority are either MGa aligned or at bare minimum, center rights is right leaning is the way I would describe it And it's not ambiguous at all. It's very clear and easy to understand If you're a terrible person but you're rich The number one place you can go to is combat sports. Cider. why do you say that? Why do you say that? Let's think about it. Be you like combat sports? I do. I do like combat sports, but like the but I came up in combat sports at a time when the UFC was making a completely different pitch and was acting exact opposite of the way they're acting now. and that's why it's been so disorienting. for me How is the pitch different The pitch was white, black, gay, straight, tall, short, East Coast, West Coast, rich poor This is a sport for you and we're going to prove it to you. We're going to show you dynamic action. Oh, our critics say we're not regulated. We're going to get regulated in all fifty states. We're going to make this maximumally palatable. I recall when Rhonda Rousey was competing, this was a famous woman in the twenty fifteen There were like little girls who were attending UFC events. like that was mind blowing because they were going for maximum mainstream palatability. But then they got it and then just decided, Oh, I guess we don't have to pretend anymore. And now it's just, to me, like an extension of vice culture more than it is kind of any aspirational, you know, mainstream unifier. That is not the pitch today at all, which is why I feel so like What has kind of happened here, It kind of happened underneath My feet, it's been it's been a strange thing We'll br it back After a quick break Sking. Creating Learning, discovery a ramp using the power of data to push the limits of what's possible That's how we deliver reliable energy to millions across the world A RAMco intntegrated Energy and Chemicals Cany. learearn more about us at arramcoode. com ready to experience something new All trarails helps you find your next hike Whether you're looking for something nearby or planning a trip, read reviews from real people like you to choose your trail and know what to expect You can also download the map in case service gets spotty Plan and experience your next hike with all trails. The app for exploring the outdoors. Download it today and find your outside. You mentioned something I thought was really interesting that after january sixth the UFC Welcomed Donald Trump with open arms That has been part of the story of Donald Trump rebuilding his image in the wake of january sixth Um, How and why did that happen? Because that seems like such an important choice here, especially because Donald Trump The story of his election in twenty twenty four, a lot of it revolved around young men, young men are the main fans of UFC It's my opinion that this country not fully prosecuting the crimes of january sixth is going to prove catastrophic for us I firmly I firmly believe him Um And You know, I'm not saying the UFC got Donald Trump elected. That seems really overstating it. But what I can say is in terms of some of the difference makers in reaching hard to access portions of the electorate young men in particular They were, I think, instrumental as well as Dana White himself sort of saying independent of UFC per se, but in his own personal capacity kind of cajoling Joe Rogan and the Rogan feere into getting all of this too. This was deeply influential. Joe Rogan was a UFC announcer, right? Joe Rogan currently still is. Yeahah. Yeah. And you know, obviously has a very popular podcast gettingetting those people on board proved Very, very, very important. and It's just crazy to think, o, we're having a silly old fight on the White House. This is, you know, I'm sure you've seen all the idiocracy comparisons, but when you really trace it's really hard not to make them. I get it. I understand I said Iocracy, there is a wrestler president I understand. I get I get the comparisons, but when you really trace the origin, It's because we refuse to have the reckoning over january sixth in this country that we should have had I get the sense That is someone who has followed UFC for a really long time This moment is a strange one for you Because you've talked about how in the beginning, the UFC was kind of about being a rainbow coalition. Everyone's welcome, littleittle girls watching women fight, that sort of thing. But a lot of people don't know about MMA and their first experience is maybe going to be this fight on the White House lawn in which case UFC is always going to be associated with Donald J. Trump and MGa Um Do you think that's not fair and Given the way the sport has turned, Do you ever think about rethinking your relationship with it? Oh I have had an existential crisis for five years. I mean When they trotted him out for january sixth, I I was like It's been This has been a very strange time in my life I haven't slept well in a long time Um I built my life around this You know, that's it's it's Imagine Imagine finding something that you really love and you did everything in your life around it, not just work you're just embedded into a world And then that world becomes almost, if not completely, but certainly almost unrecognizable. What do you do You know, what do you do? I don't know. Im I don't know the answer to that. I mean, I get a sense you're kind of pissed that Donald Trump has been allowed to co oppt this sport. Yeah. I mean pissed W Is one word despondent is another? I just didn't see it coming. and I suppose on some level I've wondered, you know, like To what extent was where we are inevitable? What was this inevitable U And I don't think the answer is yes. I think that what MMA will probably to the point we raised earlier about the partisanship of the fighters I think it would have always leaned a direction right, but this to me feels like a very, very different turn. of the screw to the point now where it's like I don't In MMA, like this conversation we're having, let's be very clear about this, this conversation we're having. I think it's critical that people understand these details I think people need to know that this is the UFC and the Trump administration. They are now tied at the hip for the rest of human history Um, But for me, it's like It's so disorienting around the things that I actually enjoy to the point where This conversation inside MMA is just not happening It just doesn't happen No one is interrogating the relationship. and to the extent that you interrogate it You're going to get yelled at about it. I mean, my mentions have been unreadable for a long time, you know I mean, I get the sense of that like this isn't just like a left right in your mind that it's something bigger, like how fighting is supposed to work and like what it's supposed to be about. and why what you enjoyed about the UFC. Like plenty of presidents have been interested in fighting. Teddy Roosevelt had a boxing ring installed at the White House., Abraham Lincoln wrestled, you know what? L fighting has been part of the presidential culture for a while but also sort of embedded into being a good fighter is the idea that there are certain things you do and certain things you don't do when you're in the ring And Donald J Trump's association with Fighting in this way It's kind of a rebuke to how a good fight isn't it? I think