Political Controversies and Closing Remarks

This is a Global Player original podcast It's the whereere Politics Meets History podcast with him in Dale, mee Test at Unlock, justust going to get in a really professional trail at the top to say that we're going to be talking about the findings and polemic of Reverend Thomas Malththus. Are you going to think badly of me if I tell you that I have no clue who you're talking about? Yeah, you're so disappointing. If I said Malalthusianism, you would know what I'm mean No, I wouldn't. Yeah, the guy who said that if populations continue to grow exponentially, we will run out of food Just after the French Revolution, he started getting his knickers in a twist because he noticed there were loads and loads more babies and w ho, the amount of food wasn't expanding as exponentially. And it ripped through this idea of thought about population size and growth ripped too't it too much because otherwise you you're quite right, but it's very significant because the United Nations came out last week and said unprecedented global decline population growth rates. This is the first time since old Reverend Thomas Malththus put his pen on paper and said the exact opposite. It's only taken a couple of hundred years plus And we're also going to be talking about the future of the BBC because if you are listening to this podcast before ten o'clock on Tuesday morning, as many of you will be because I know you listen to it on your commute You can switch on BBC Parliaments at ten o'clock and watch my debut in front of a Sillc committee Oh boy, have I got a lot to say? I'm not allowed laugh at either You can do what you like. No, you know, I'm not because you said what did you do over the weekend? Mainly I was cating my younger brother, he of MSP Fame, who believes I'm unpleasant to you. And he thinks I was particularly unpleasant to you in the last podcast I could think of others where you've been more unpleasant to me. So because now he speaks with a newuclear eyed vision, courtesy of his status ased authority. Indeed Dpite being a liberal Democrat. A little bit of manpling more than regularly dollops into my WhatsApp from the family Group and beyond, Splos Slosh I thought, wasas I really that horrible to Ian? Actually, to be fair, one other person said it was a tetchy and tense episode. So I downloaded it and had a listen and within five minutes I was trying to stop you promoting your book brackets again to which you turn round with the retort, I hate you So I' was like, okay, but yeah, it's me that's apparently hating on Ian. and then I realized it's a gendered construct. Of course it is, yes because you're poor, people member of the female class? No, not that at all. it's just the expectations are societally that women will be the diplomats, the emollent, the compromisers. So when I therefore attack you and have no trouble for your nonsense, apparently it's all my fault. If we were having this conversation in nineteen fifty six as opposed to twenty twenty six. I think you would have a Probably a good point there I don't think that really stands up nowadays Interestingly, it was women who counted my younger brother's suggestion that I was the quote bitter and unkind one And they said in response to my Instagram post, Funnily enough, this is from Diana, I find Ian the spiky one and quite patronising at times. Love the pod, she adds We got hearty responses, I got a real hater One man who just absolutely couldn't abide me, but this one's better from Alison. No, we'll read that one out as well, just for a bit of balance. I didn't screen grab it but I'll look for it in ac. I love Ys and Ian's podcast, says Allison. Being born and raised in Liverpool, I get the banter between you. Not saying others born elsewhere don't. It makes me laugh. It's an honest podcast. And as a woman, I understand you Tessa and love Ian's gentleness in his comebacks. Well there you go, Including that I hate you But don you don't put any context into that at all and you don't say that I said that laughing as I said it. No, for sure, but people who are listening to the podcast presumably know, but it was just It struck me that it clearly worries my younger brother that I'm not respectful enough to the man sitting in front of me No, I think what he's trying to say to you. is that you need to be nicer to me because then you'll be liked by more people. which is what politicians always try to do, of course, be liked by it. look at Andy Burnham Please like me, please like me. Have you've seen of his social media now? It's not about politics, it's about how many key uuppies he can do and things like that. You're right, is me vibe that politicians give off. and my little brother's in that space now because he wants to be liked and to grow his socials. It's natural to I mean, it's a natural human thing to want to be liked. I want to be li. I don't want people to hate me, but I have come to the conclusion that a lot of people do for reasons I don't quite understand, but there's nothing I can do about it. I like to be liked by some people, but I've got to say I worry probably less than I should about my likability. The older you get, the less you worry about it. I found the hater, by the way, it's called Andy M Oh yeah, and he's got numbers by his name. Oh, it is a question, this is the question I pose about whether women judge more harshly than men. Indeed, if you would only open your myopic eyes and look at the tsunami of hate that flows towards men every day, that's men getting cancellled for mere words, even as women can commit domestic violence and all sorts of actual crimes and get away with it in the Court of public opinion Scot free females on reality shows committing sexual assault or wanton and bullying and getting away with it. Scot double tea free. even having producers lean heavily on it for further entertainment purposes, you are a thoroughly unpleasant individual. onene who has long since lost the ability to view both genders through the prism of equality and fairness. It's a wonder that Andy is following me on my Instagram. Indeed I do question about all these females who have been sexually assaulting people on reality TV. Who are these people? And why don't I know about them? It's a two tier society. clelearly is. That's a new thing, isn't it? two tier? We have to say that about everything And him asking me to judge the two genders equally. The point is, Andy. We live in a patriarch my friend, and it ain't equal. And you're not equal. you are physically stronger than me. It's extraordinary a fit woman, a woman physically fit, muscularly toned, and a fit man She is in her mid twenties when she has equitable strength with a man in his mid sixties I wouldn't like to see anybody get a physical scrap with you think you the heads off. And nor you, Ian, even on Manjia? I'm just a complete wimp But isn't it funny, though, that people do have different views about our relationship? And the fact is, we've done one hundred thirty one podcast together. If we didn't like each other, if we didn't get on, we wouldn't be doing it, would we? One of us would have stormed out. I mean I nearly did storm out onceol before you remind me But that was more to do with the tech in the Liverpool hotel you were in, I seem to recall. Oh no, this is in the studio. don' you remember that? Oh, that one. Oh Coreia.ed Ashcraft into line. See, Duncan found that one really that's interesting Little brrother Duncan found that one really entertaining and that was you the man stropping on me. but when I strop on you, he finds it awkward. see? Speaking to that gender divide. Oh, thank you, Ian for providing the ammo. Oh any time. It's my pleasure. Now you want to talk about the BBC. I've just come from the BBC where after decades of neglecting the East of Europe, extraordinary really, given this is where you get your normal Romania bit in. No because you said you want to talk about the BBC. Tell me the countries where the World Service is starting up specific language and news services, the three Actually four countries, but two cover the same language. Ukraine No, they've got one there already, don't they? Well obvious it must be Romania It is Romania Moldovver. That's the fourth and Iran No, I kind of gave you a clue at the top there I missed it. They're nesting together, Ian Poland and Hungary So Magia, Poland and Romania V veryy tiny team. It's just digital and social medias And it is all about Russian propaganda and trying to counter it. I do declare, I think it might be too little too late There was a very unfortunate explosion, Ukrainian missile explosion or something near Kenstanza near the Romanian Black Sea port at the weekend and didn't go down at all well with Romanians. And you know when I was in Romania when the drone hit civilian accommodation in Gals near the Danube on NATO. ter rain posted on my socials and I said something using it to prove that British journalists didn't know how to pronounce anything in Romanian actually. but when I was on the post, I said, Oh God, I wish Putin would go to hell or words to that effect in Romanian. And I think I got eight hundred and thirty comments. hundred and fifty thousand views and a sizeable minority, probably nearly half of the comments claim tried to claim that it was Ukrainian force flag operation. You knowain Russian propaganda is working really well over that Really well. But if they're not going to do a radio station, which is what the BBC World Service would normally do in a expense a country or an area. I mean, what can they really achieve by this? Well, I suppose their belief is, and remember that the Romanian election was cancelled because of the TikTok algorithms and Callin Geor Jeskco, the Putin puppet suddenly rising from nowhere. approimately eighteen months ago, I suppose the thinking is that it nowadays all happens online to counter the sewage in the sewer. ve got to get in there with your little canoes and that's why they're starting up these social mediaas. And I presume that's why they reached out to me because you know I've slodding along. posting on my socials, but actually because of the divisions, because there's a whole tranche of people who now seem to glamorize the Caoesku era. It's really bizarre but true. and also the kind of suck in on the Putin nipple this idea that somehow Romania can afford to negate groups like the EU and NATO and we will be safe History tells us they've never been safe under the Russian armpit U It means that I Try, not always, but try and to avoid politics to a greater extent, partly because it gives me a broader audience. And then when I really have to come in on something important, I can But if you go in on a political level as a foreigner, A it's unpopular. Wh does she think she is? be only talk to half the population But you have become the de facto Romanian ambassador to the UK, haven't you? With your profile among the Romanian community here? Yeah, it's got to the point where I find it a bit overwhelming and I'm not sure quite what to do with it And we we're waiting, aren't we for a date from the Romanian embassy so that we can take someone very important to lunch there, but we're still waiting for that date att the embassy. Yeah, you and me having lunch here at the embassy. I feel like that. I've no idea, but we're going to find out. okay. We haven't got the invitation veryy delicate palete. Just you can piss right off. I'll thump you. If you don't I mean, I do want to talk about the BBC when we do it after the break properly. But is it tied into that? Be I don't know who's funding into the World service? No. But I don't know who's funding this new Romanian East European Polish service? It's either the World serervice itself or it'll come as part of the direct grant from the foreign Office. but I had a feeling that that had finished now. I did too, which means it must be coming out of the BBC budget Well Hold that thought, listener and we'll come back to this in a couple of minutes Have you ever wanted to hear some of the biggest names in politics, entertainment and sport properly explain who they are, what they believe, and what's really shaped them? That's the heart of full Disclosure podcast with me, James O'Brien. In each episode, I go beyond the public version of guests like Gary Linakher, Dwn French, David Hairwood, and more to get into the experiences and defining moments that made them who they are You'll hear revealing stories, unexpected reflections and the kind of detail you rarely get anywhere else. So if you're looking for real insight and conversations with substance, you'll find exactly that on full disclosure. Listen and watch on Global Player, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcast On Friday, I spent some time with some charming in Essex In relation to some history research I was doing, I don't want to give away their identities and they would were Ex Romfred. Without exception Reform voters And when She drove me to the station at the end of the afternoon. I asked her about reform voting. and she said, I just want things to be the way they once were And when I was looking up Reverend Thomas Malalththas at the end of the eighteenth century I realized that was how he was feeling slightly when he surveyed the scene and once upon a time there'd just been one big city in England and that was London. And suddenly over this period of a few decades There were cities mushrooming all over England. There was mechanisation, there was the beginnings of the Industrial Revolution. Manchester ten times its size in a hundred years, How would Andy Burnham have coped with that pace of change? B backack to Thomas Malththas because it is fascinating how his equation over the two hundred year period has been flipped on its head. He is a curate. He's just come out of this radical period at Cambridge University. He's got a very interesting father, who's a broad thinker.'s a sort of assistant vicar? Exactly, just so. so he's registering and overseeing baptisms and deaths can't help but notice baptising far more babies than he's burying the dead. He's like, Wha. And he' also shocked by just how poor people are get over it being a middle class man hadn't really been exposed to it before And he's also affected by some of the optimistic thinking around industrial growth and population growth from academic friends of his who are writing the opposite, feeling encouraged by all this exponential growth. And he thinks, no, it doesn't work He says actually and arguably up until that point he made sense and his thinking made sense that when times are good, the population expands, it overve expands. peopleeople can't afford to look after themselves. and then it collapses again. And actually you get this perpetual spiral of poverty because people don't know how to put a spike in their breeding. I either have too many children, there's too many of us. And he did this kind of exponential growth curve where there's two children and two children leads to four children, and four children leads to eight children. So the population is exponentially growing and the equivalent in terms of food isn't possible, which is where you get this malhusiasm. It's the first time that people start talking about population growth And they get very excited about it and continue to be infected by his thinking right through until Charles Darwin about nearly a hundred or so well into the nineteenth century, where then you get the selection of the fittest. And actually, a lot of mouth users' thinking was get rid of paul laws How do we stop people having children? He said actually You've got to resist. Working class people have got to be encouraged to marry later, be sexually active for a shorter period of time and have fewer children. I mean it was bunkum. that was never going to happen. His other theory was, and this speaks to today and the child credit for more children than two, he said we need to get rid of p laws. We need to stop supporting the weakest. We need to let them slip away aturally we need to be more cru to be kind. and that was his thinking. and it infuriated some people. It was certainly massive food for thought and it led to incredible amounts of academic, political and public discourse. He rerote his toem, his book about five times, modifying it continually. trying to make it slightly less abhorrent. to begin with, he was really pretty negative. You know He said either the population is rectified through pestilence, plague and war, there was less of that at that time. And he couldn't see without these major obliterations of the human population. He first published in seventeen ninety eight and then published a subsequent four or five times modifying it. And he didn't die till eighteen thirty four. and he really landscaped all our conversations around population. And what's fascinating is First of all, he was right, population did keep growing has continued to grow right through till the present day, even with major global scale wars It hasn't grown though exponentially. And where he was wrong is he didn't factor in the industrial Revolution and our capacity to make food like never before. and of course that's about to change all over again because now we can make food out of M water and energy By all accounts Two things worth noting. So the UN's come out and they said, we've surveyed fourteen thousand people in fourteen countries. and they said one in five haven't had or expect they won't have their desired number of children. surveyed countries every different economic standing, so developed, developing and thirird worldorld, and the only countries which bucked the fertility trend were in countries like Sub Saharan and Africa Ironically, it was in the richest countries where people said they couldn't really afford to have children. ninety five percent of childless people in Eastern Europe, including Ukraine, said they wanted children, ninety five percent of childless people, but they didn't have them and there are now panicked thinkings There's a whole population department in the UN about what we do concerning this matter. If you think as mid mid twentieth century the likes of China were coming out and saying one child only. they were being very moualthous about the affair. They were taking it to a state level And yet they've massively gone back on that decision making process. Thailand to Sweden, France. In fact, France, Sweden, Hungary, all three of those countries have pushed a lot of money in behind fertility policies, all of which have failed. Hungary tried to pay per baby, had a brief baby spike and then it crashed down w Sweden and France, there's occasionally a brief uptick in the wake of an introductory policy, but it never sustains Isn't it true that India has overtaken China now as the most populous nation in the world? Their fertility levels are also declining, they were included in this survey What's the one common denominator in the world in almost all those countries that's been surveyed, which may help account for the unprecedented crash in birth rates. More gay people? Nope Same numbers as ever, believe it or not,. Just more of you out there, darling Yeah, but there would have been, I mean this is a minor point So There's always been a section of society who are actually gay but get married and have children I think that that section of society is declining in Western countries. My gay Romanian neighbour has two IVF babies made in California. I arrest my case That's not the reason anyway. Gayess is not to blame I've just done a two hour interview with Atitude magazine. the first interview for my that why you're wearing a lemon coloured shirt No, why very attractive shirt. Why would it Why would I wear a yellow shirt to be interviewed by? I was interviewed by a Lesbian y, you look very interesting conversation. OkayK, we'll come back to that. I'm going to give you a clue as to why fertility rates might have crashed. It's in front of you U my phone Yeah They think relationship It's much easier. No, I'm not going to say it. You used say it No. They think relationships are much more insecure than they used to be that society we need still, more than ever, understandably need to feel secure, most of us to go forth and multiply. And you know why that is? because We as a society in the twenty first century have lost that sense of shame that they and I'm just not saying this is a bad thing that they used to be. My mother What do you mean in what context? Well, for example, People split up nowadays for reasons which thirty, forty, fifty years ago, they would have just Breinton Knuckled down. Yeah. and I think P saw divorcees as people who should be consorted with. they were shameful people If you lived in sin as the phrase went, that was a terrible thing. The wrong side of the blanket. Well, exactly. And yet most people nowadays before they get married, they try it out first because I mean you find out whether you can live with someone if you actually try it. That's all gone. We don't feel this sense of shame There have several reasons for that. One is in mobile phones, which is this ubiquitous factor across all these countries allow you to spread your social network for further So you can have relationships with anonymity, I you're not going to be judged by title tattle neighbours or the local community. We are now a more anonymous society, a more lonely society, a more detached society. and bizarrely through that small screen, a more aspirational society. I might want to trade you in for a Bta looking podcast partner who wears a canary yellow shirt and I just need to go online to find him Well you'll find him tomorrow when you go going to interview Rory Stewart. Indeed, we'll come to that the end of the podcast. I'm interviewing Rory Stewart you do a poll on how many of Alisons think I'm better looking than Rory Stewart I think I'd be quite confident of winning that poll. Don't him that either. I'll tell him No. I need it's not tomorrow only I'm intervening on Wednesday. Oh, sorry. Whatever, I've got a day to prepare. I haven't read his b yet but I'm looking forward to reading midle March, obviously So But the upshot of all this was, then they got two academics on us was listening to this fascinating program on fertility decline today and whether it mtered. And they were like, well, it doesn't really matter because we've got AI coming along and the housing crisis will be eased. It should be said, Britain's leading from the front in terms of fertility decline. It's now at one point four. The numbers of actual live births has crashed to an unprecedented l rate the lowest since nineteen seventy seven, but if you think the population' massively grown since then you would expect that number not to have fallen by as much. Isn't it massively influenced though by Um the birth rate for non English immigrants. So I would therefore fall the wrong side of the fence because forty percent of live births have at least one parent who's born abroad, including my relationship. forty percent and therefore my children You know, a little bit watered down ont me Norman Conquest jeans Anyway, or are they Celtic? I don't know, I've never looked into it. But the point being is that these academics were saying, well, actually, I think we'll manage a bit more space. and you know capitalism will adjust and there's AI and all these unknowns and there's so many unemployed graduates at the moment But what they failed to acknowledge is The sadness that therean that came up in this East European statistic, ninety five percent of childless people in East Europe would like a child. and actually many of my friends or younger friends I know would like a child. In fact, one of the women I met on Friday, but such as the insecurity of the world, financial, the debts they carry, but also this relationship insecurity peopleeople just don't feel they can take a punt. on life. Nhing so sad about that year Yeah, I'm not sure though the results of that survey would be replicated in this country. I think there's a growing number of middle class people, men and women just do not want children came and I wonder why not because they are more centred on their careers, they're more centred on the material aspects of life and they know that having a child will turn their lives upside down. But careers and material aspects in travel have been available since the seventies. I go back to not so much. particularly for women to Now I suspect make help fifty percent of the workforce Push probably didn't in the seventies. The other thing that the findings discovered was not just financial concerns, but time poverty Yeah. And again I point to the phone in. Oh go, you're right on that. Yeah, you know I have three days at the weekend Wh I haven't had to do anything really And I've wasted the whole weekend by doing nothing. How much of it was spent on your phone? Huge amounts. I rest my. John said to me yesterday, didid you realise you've been sitting or lying there on the sofa scrolling through your Instagram reels for an hour?, It's wicked. Then I realized, yes, I had It's entertaining, isn't it Well, I look at my metrics on Facebook and they go, We'll give you a bonus if you post a picture, we'll pay anra pound. Literally I'm like, whyy do I got You get money off Facebook Yeah, on my mion Facebook account. Yeah, I do. I'm monetizing it. You see I'm so bad at all of this. Well you've got a proper regular. I used to be a trend setter on social media and now I feel as if I'm falling behind. Stop laughing. Oh know they're going to become horror to you. Exactly. Can I swallow the snare? We're going to in future episodes identify the when Tessla was horrible to Ian moment And we've just had it. I do like your lemon shirt though You look good and yellow Now before we move on to the BBC Tessa wants to make a point about parenting Yeah. Donald Trump has lost control of his children I'm talking about Vib Netanyahu and Iran ud he's just lost it like he is unable to control them. On the one hand, he's saying, putut your missiles away now guys. putut your rockets down. We're sticking with the peace. And on the other hand, apparently in conversation with Bibi Netanyahu, he literally said, Everybody hates you. You are blanky blank crazy. You're the reason why no one likes Israel. And Bib Netanyahu is like, Still boming Lebanon Yeah, Donald Trump not really understanding that he's the reason that a lot of people hate America at the moment Yeah doesnt show lot of doesn't show a lot of self knowledge there, does it?, I saw a video on Twitter this morning. I don't know who it was. I think it might have been a Democratic Senator And he was saying that Just before the twenty twenty one presidential election Pident of Kagzh. Kazakhstan ranged Donald Trump and said, Oh we're going to be building the world's biggest tungsten mine. No idea what tungsten is, but some sort of metal thing. and withithin a few weeks The two Trump brothers were made directors and part owners of the company that were awarded the contract. I mean, take some pretty big bollocks, doesn't it? to think that nobody's going notice that sort of thing. And there was me thinking that the only person to get my net out of Kazakhstan was Tony Blair. But of course, Donald Trump, if he knew his history, would understand that be be Netanyahu who has form. It was Bill Clinton, who I always think is relatively mild mannered who said in nineteen ninety six to Netanyahu Who is the blank de blank superpower in this relationship Which I suspect many presidents have had to point out to various Israeli prime mininisters over the years. It has to be said. I think Netanyahu's in a category all of his own actually at Question Would you say that Bill Clinton was the best American president since Ronald Reagan. It difficult to think of anyone that was better than him desespite I mean, obviously there was all the Lewinsky scandal and whatever. But as a steward of the American economy as being in charge of American foreign policy, I mean yes, there were bad things that happened. Rwanda was one I mean he says to this day it's the one thing that he really regrets. likeikewise encouraging Ukraine to sell their nukes. That's another of his regrets. But generally, I think he's probably the best American president of the last thirty years. I have a very, very vivid memory and I must have been in late teens at the time of Yasa Arafat sort play fighting him on the American The White House lawn remember that? Don't remember that? I have a very vivid memory of it He had an ability, aack He's hugely personable, isn't he personable and a great communicator. Um and also with some intellectual heft behind him That I think is what our present day politicians lack Um And in Kist Stam's case he doesn't have the ability to communicate either Yeah, he's he's he's No charisma the issue with Kir Starmer. Funnily enough, I was on radio five last night up against a standard right winger guy Tory advisor called James Price And we got talking about Andy Burnham, and it's the first time I've heard on record a right wing conservative commentator speaking warmly of Rachel Reeves and Kia Starmer. I literally said, pinch yourself, Stephen You've heard it here first. It is a mess that the Conservative right have helped make this pushing starmer out and they will be hoisted by their own petard when in comes a more left wing man whether it's Wees or Streeting who's going to introduce, I don't know, what Wes or Streeting, I mean, Burnham or streeting, they're going to ratchet up capital gains, they're going to hit second homes They're going to show a load of shit on the right and it's entirely their fault I't think you can say it's the right's fault that Stalmer is being ousted. It's people in the Labour Party's fault that that's happenling. I think from the very get go, the tone, the attack of the right wing press getting ridiculously disproportionately overrexcited about a free pair of specs, for example, from the very beginning out of the traps, they laid into him. Disproportionately so. Well, I don't agree with you. I think if that had been a conservative Prime Minister, they would have been even more vicious. And so would you Actually don't but the majority of the press in this country leegacy press, is owned by the right Well, the telegraph, the times and the mail are The expxpress is bonker. Nobody reads Nobody reads the Exress. I mean, look, do you know what the p not population, the circulation of those newspapers is compared to what it was even five years. We know they have so little influence on things. That's where you're so naive, they still to this day set the agenda for the mainstream media. We know that the likes of the BBC lessV much to the BBC. I know you want to talk about it I'm so sorry they still, when I do the newspaper review, for example, on radio five, they're the newspapers we go to. And we look and we talk about the subjects that they flag up. So it's always about immigration and boats and burnam and whether Kistar is as useless as we. Well, you should pick other stories, then? Well, I do try to but we're stuck on the front page. justust before we go into the BBC Did you see Andy Burnham's newewsnight interview with Victoria Derbyshire? I saw some of it. Did you see West Streeting's interview with Lewis Goodell? an hour and a half? Yeah I went to sleep to it. An incredible interview, I think. And if you haven't listened to it, do go listen to it because West Streeting was in full project mode, wasn't he? I mean he was very amusing absolutely scathing about Starmer I didn't think he was entirely scathing actually. I mean Well I think the bits that you missed when you went to sleep, I think you might revise that. Okay, I heard the bits on Israel. He was quite strong on that. I thought he tried to caveat it by saying he thought the man had extraordinary resilience. Yeah, He liked him on a personal but generally He said he's fit to prime minister and's why'veost confidence.ld that ign But he did this in a way that was so direct, which I was quite surprised at in many ways Wasn't that a brilliant example of the long form interview working Because if West Streeting had been like Andy Berham's interview was twelve minutes, which is quite long for half our program. Um I just thought that contrast between those interviews where Andy Burnham kept getting touchy with the Victoria Derbyshire. He kept refusing to answer her questions. And you just thought Mate you've got nothing there. that you can't even tell us what the fiscal rules are. But the difference is Andy Burnham is on a platform that far more people are going to see with Victoria Darba Show. Well, that's actually not true.. The news agents get around a quarter of a million people listening to or watching their episodes. I mean, News night sometimes get more than that, notot on a Friday night Yeah, but it's posted out across all the socials. It's more heavily posted. I think probably it has more traction and visibility. A podcast doesn't have the same level of agency. We try our best in. We do try our best, but we don't get the promotion that the news agents get. Anyway, let's not scratch that particular wound Um Right, BBC During this evidence sess tomorrow morning, what do you think I should be saying? What future does the BBC have And I mean if we were having this conversation thirty years ago Do you 'cause the BBC charter is renewed Generally every ten years, isn't it? Um, I mean, to my mind, the BBC needs radical reform, and I'm not somebody who's anti the BBC. I'm anti some of the things they do. I'm anti some of the budget decisions that they make. But generally, I think the BBC is a good thing and we still need it going into the twenty thirties and twenty forties. It can't stay as it is, can it I've always felt it's too big The problem is, I don't know where you shave, which bits you shave off. Whenever they try to dont know close down a radio six or something. Up in arms go the minority of viewers or listeners and suddenly it grows and sort of a protest vote becomes suddenly a sort of established party of interest And we talked at the beginning of this show about now they're taking on Romania, Poland Hungry again, Arguably rightly so. we've got giant diasporas of those people in our own country who should be served by the BC. That alone is a good reason. But where does it end You've got the Asian service. So if we look internationally, you've got that. And I think that's where BBC has real strength. It has incredible networks and prestige as an external British brand. But at the same time, you have to feed your home audience because your home audience is paying for you. They have great success stories like traitors. But in order to have the one big success that is, say, traitors, that is a appointment ofiew that links up the nation, that sees everyone have a common talking point at work the next day. they also have loads of duds that they can't afford to make And they continue with the Duds. That's the thing when I mean, Mrs. Brown's Bys is one of my pet hobby horses, the most unfunny programe on television. and yet it keeps being recommissioned for ser the series. Somebody must watch it. Well do they do they really? I'm worried if you're going beiv evidence in front of a select committee that you haven't already got your thesis in. and it sounds rather unfortuny. Well, I don't know what questions they're going to ask She'll be answering their questions. I don't get to make an opening statement or anything. No, but surely you have several pressing points you want to make My main point will be that the Diminution, if that's not the right word. D. a minute Anyway, the reducing and importance of the News and Current Affairs Department has to stop and be reversed. Because whenever there are budget cuts to be made, it's always news and cururrent affairs that gets hit first. And the diminishment toiminishment. I think that that is a disgrace. If the BBC is at least in most part about public interest broadcasting then surely News coverage has to be at its centre. But what news coverage? We've started by saying internationally they're great. they're gold plated and they're. No, they're not great internationally. The BBC World Service is very great and still widely respected But if you look at the number of international editors and correspondents they have now, the number of foreign bureaus, it is a fraction of what.. And also they don't pay their string as properly because there's a funding crisis. Wh is why I don't as often make programmes and commentaries and fus from our correspondence because just so badly paid it's not worth putting in the invoice. I mean, they're not funded. So unless they've got a correspondent over there. so for example, they have one in America, they have one in South Africa, then those countries get covered. But many of the little very important countries are covered by one person. L I know Eastern Europe's covered, I think six countries are covered by one person. But what they've become myopic in their news coverage Yes, they will cover America. They overcover America, I would say Now O Trump's president, so it's always going to be newsworthy. But we don't hear what goes on in large parts of Asia. we don't hear what goes on in large parts of Africa. And when it gets to the point that as a British news consumer, I have to switch on Al Jazeera English to get world news coverage, you realize we have a problem. And I push back and say one of the places where they've really closed and stations isn't international or it is also local. So it's local but also British national I that they have decimated their politics coverage. So we're talking about funding across the board and what's the problem? We are in news and current affairs. I would question the amount of money they spend on buying sports rightes I would question the proliferation of radio stations, the digital radio stations that they create because they know when they tryed to close them down they weren't allowed to. They wanted to close Six music. It wasn't that they weren't allowed to, they bowed to what they thought was public opinion. I'm talking about this like radio One Dance. Now all of those stations exist in the commercial sector. Why does the BBC need to do them? Because if they don't have youth and broadcast then they don't bring up the next generation But they don't understand how to get the youth either watching or listening to their programe. Before you get on your hobby horse tomorrow, you need to look into their listening figures for all those stations. You can go upstairs and ask the boss at LBC to give you the latest radar so that you go in armed with some facts. You can't just waffle in front of a select committee You need facts, stats And then you can make your point. becausecause if you look at you, Mr. Smug, if you sit there with your arms folded and say we should close down that pop music station information to the listeners my arms aren't folded I'm not on the defense of at all. So anyway, so that's one area I want to go into. You need facts. The other area is then starting up operations, whether it's radio television or print order to close down commercial rivals, which is what they have a track record of doing. Oh yeah, that's bad. when they you know the gold all the ones that the old what they called Tony Blackburn and that they all go over to those old gold stations or whatever they're called and then they find themselves in competition with radio. Well, I mean I'll give you an example In about two thousand three four, I used to present a book show on One Word Radio, which is a new digital station And it was quite popular And then BBC noticed that the station was rather popular So they then set up BBC Radio seven. which then became radio four Extra. Within six months, one word radio ceased to exist because they basically stole their entire audience The good news on that front is they try to do the same with boom radio And OffcOom intervened and told them no they couldn't do it. because they wanted to do radio two extra because they've effectively ceded all of their plus sixty five listeners to boom radio. So they want to get them back by doing a new digital station. So O offcom told them where to get off on that. So they need to be stopped to I the select commommittee. I hope they've got time on their side tomorrow. Oh fuck off. Oh we jump to fuck off. Let's go to bed Okay, the select committee is still sitting and I have a couple of emails. This came to me at info at tessadunlock dot com Dear Dror Dunlock, flowers and feedback. Firstly the flowers as we call in Switzerland. I think you are fabulous in the pod Here we go with the brief feedback. The way you hold Ian's feet to the fire is hilarious. You don't let him get away with anything. Well done. Wow, that was well timed. wasasn't it reading out this email? That said, I think Ian is also outstanding. In my view, any faults he might have are mere bagger tell I willingly accept his minor character flaws ere Where's the question in this email? It's from Martin. Sorry, my only feedback about the pod, more history would be neat. That's why I gave a mouth first Also more smart, No, you're not getting smart. No stress. He then comes up with a really long point on Canada resisting Americans and the Guernsy connection. Yes, there's quite a lot of anti you on Canada coming up in these emails I've had,. And funnily enough, I got another message from someone who said you were totally wrong on the Canadian railwways. I got one from someone saying you were totally wrong il Apparently Canadian railways are second to non Ian Holiday. That's not what my feedback is here. Okay, well hit me with it. Anyway, this isn't on candidate. It's from Matthew. Longim fan of the Pod. I'm not emailing about the state of British politics, but something much more important, Ian's potential holiday Ian, you mentioned on a recent episode of the Pod that you were thinking of visiting a trio of Baltic states By bizarre coincidence, I was listening to this as I literally arrived home from a holiday to Latvia and Lithuania I spent a few days each in Rhiga and Vilnius with my partner, first time visit for both of us, and we were so pleasantly surprised with how beautiful the cities were, I don't know why I didn't expect as much. for the architecture Uh Harts. sorry, the architecture, particularly in Vilius, was incredible with all sorts of wonderful museums and historical buildings all around as well as lovely parks and great places to eat couldn't recommend enough I'd happily return to both as we definitely didn't have time to take in everything. PS. Tessa. I'm sure you'd love it too. if you haven't already been a woman of the world. My little brother used to live in Vilmner. Really? Yes, you go. Lithuania, I didn't. He said that the women were very attractive, but he was a young man Okay, now we're going to go to Will. Can A I not allowed to comment on that? Okay, yees, sorry. I'm not actually going to the Baltic States because I'd start my holiday on Friday for two weeks and' Last night I decided I was going to go to Athens for the weekend until I saw what the temperature was going to be like, until I also saw what the cost of the flight was. and so I decided No, I'll stay at home and clean out the garage Al lucky John Okay so We're moving to William now. And host Tessa and her husband for a barbecue. And Sean Williams I gather, and Corey can't wait. Good afternoon, Dr. Tessa, Professor Ian. Unfortunately, I can confirm Ian is wrong about the Canadian train system. I went on it last year from Toronto to Otawa, then Montreal and finally Quebec City. the chains are cheaper, cleaner, free water filling stations, good wifi, more leg room, all seats have charging sockets and Comferats The food is cheaper and tastier, only negative is compensation is less generous if delayed. I also travelled to Toronto, Montreal, Otta Metro S systems It cost me around one pound fifty to four pound fifty compared to Birmingham being normally three pound fifty, not sure the point he is trying to make there. Although the best train I've ever got on went from Czechia to Slovakia inland terms of price and Why don't you go to Czechia U on. the I have driven through a little bit of what was then the Cze no, it was then Czechoslovakia. and my only memory of that journey was driving through forests and the roads were lined by prostitutes Onto your next quest wereere they exported from Romania? Funnily enough, I remember that the Balkan states are not Balkan, of course Czechosovakia, Central European, part of that newew Europe rubric My mother and father had a good friend who left after the Prague spring, went back to Czechoslovakia as it was then and they went to visit them shortly after the Revolution the same summer as I went to Romania andum said, my daughter can't because she's in Romania And they went, Oh bitered the Romanians. This was thirty years ago. Right, this was from Twitter and it's a succession of tweets from someone called RM. I've tacked them all together Is Tessa smoking Canadian dope Our infrastructure, and this is from an actual Canadian Our infrastructure is horrific. Our passenger train system is awful. We are not economically nationalistic, we're tied heavily to the US. We currently have two secessionist movements. Our health system is worse than the UK and more expensive, and the discussion about potholes was hilarious, with Tessla saying it's all about infrastructure Just look at Canada I guarantee we have far worse potholes than the UK, but we do have better snow removal We sell our oil and gas to the US at a steep discount because we don't have the infrastructure, pipelines, refineries, ports, to ship direct to markets in Europe and Asia. But the US does. So the US makes a huge profit because we haven't built the infrastructure. I do find this very interesting. to you're such a liyar To our credit, our public education systems are pretty good, and most of our provincial electricity systems produce a lot of clean energy at low prices and our banking system is really strong So there you have a balanced opinion And finally, from Martin who gave us a personality countdown, but I forgot to read out the substantial part of his email. He sent me a second email. I am Swiss, resident in Switzerland, Paradise on Earth. However, originally, I'm a Gernseyan British but not English, I think that's worth repeating As I'm sure you know, Guernsey is a crown dependency, roughly sixty five thousand population economically successful nowadays anyway. An interesting constitutional link with England. Guernsey's constitutional head is the Duke of Normandy, who in his spare time, also happens to be tight. Come on Guernsey's constitutional head is the Duke of Normandy, who in his spare time also happens to be It's a bit a trick question I don't know. His Majesty K Charles III. Is he also the Duke of Normanday?? Yeah, he is, I suppose. That bizarre. Yes. becausecause if you think William the Conqueror? Was there a question that No, I'm just reading out the bits that interest me Chris said Listening to latest podcast, both couldn't be more wrong. I have always been toory and have been interested but not tempted to vote reform. On Friday I joined reform on the back of everything that has gone on This has really struck at the heart of the nation. People can't be angry and enraged by this, when are we ever allowed to express anger, not condoning rioting, etcet. U I have actually had quite a few other people saying that they've joined reform over the last few days. And quite a few will definitely never vote for reform because of what's happened over the last few days, so it probably balnces itself out. Well, those are people who would never have voted for reform, I would venture to suggest. I don't know. If you look at Scarlet Maguire, the polling woman, she says that there's huge numbers of people who are concerned that voting for reform makes them look like they've got a whiff of racism about them And if they think that there's any possible tint of that they won't vote for the pale blue headed up by Mr. F Teal, I think it's called. Is it? Duck egg blue. Because in Australia, the equivalent of reform is are called the teals. Okay. Final question. Tom, I've got loads here. I know, but we've run out of time. Tom says forty thousand pounds is a massive amount of money when standing for election. forty thousand pounds is an inconsequential amount of money when buying a jaguar. And why would a micr mananaging former ex first Minister of Scotland notice You may like her, Ian, Wake up I totally agree with him and funny enough I was listening to another podcast on this. We should point out that her husband earned ninety thousand, she earned approximately two hundred thousand Bearing in mind that Scotland has far more punitive higher tax brackets, so their take home will only have been about one hundred fifty thousand per hour And I think therefore it would be extraordinary if she hadn't asked questions, what she really enjoyed. No' Extraordinary The marriage gave her. He was the chief exec. she was the head of the government. Well, that is a good point. But the four hundred thousand was over ten years, so forty thousand a year I don't think she would necessarily, given how busy she was I I mean, the salt and pepper things likeike two thousand pounds. I mean, you look at them, you wouldn't think they were worth that. I wouldn't think they were worth that. Why should she think they were worth that? Let's not go back over. Jaguous and motor homes is what I would just repeat to you. It still. I'm sorry, if' if you're in a joint income of over two hundred thousand pounds, which they were Buying a jaguar is not an extravagance Do you know who agrees with me on this? Id tried to think. Rory Stewart. Do you know I'm going to see on Wednesday? Yeah, Rory Stewart. Do you think he ever needs a fill in for Alista guarantee it wouldn't be you Oh you're a woman after all. They don't do women on that podcast. No, veryy sexy. The whole goal hanger setup is almost exclusively male. Well, Marina Hyde does want, doesn't she? Yeah, but It that's showbiz. that doesn't really count. But' why that's why I listen with reluctance because of course they're chummy pushing up against the abrasive opposite sex full of anger and feminist bile Okay, final point with you. Right, Trevor Trollub And that is his name Hello both. In light of his recent statements, prostate scanning and misrepresenting Kemy Badenok, is Zia Yusf fast becoming the most unlikable man in politics The man does have prior behaviour too in this field. A few months ago I watched a daily telegraph live debate featuring Yusuf James Cleverly and James Murray. Murray was an on entity, cleverly very impressive, but Yusuf just came across as so irritable and a bit of a twat, rant over. Have a great weekend, PS, cleleverly for London May. PS, PS that speaks to my point that for every reform voter they gained over the last week, they've also lost one didid you see him on Kounsburg Yeah, I did I thought he was moderately impressive on that, but he can be quite obnoxious, I find. He was on a sticky wicket. I mean there was a strength to what he represents. He's an interesting intersection is he as a man from An ethnic minority who speaks to a party that feels racively racist. That whole thing he did about Kemy Badeno and Black Lives matter. what an absolute disgrace that was and iteems a Hi. shame on him when he was on Trevor Phillips on Sunday. I mean, I've always liked Nadem and still do I'm sorry, you can't get away with that sort of thing when people can easily point out what she actually said In the way in which they redacted what she said and deliberately, they didn't misinform, they disinformed the public. That speaks to nineteen thirt' propaganda. I don't hold bard. It does I'm not I think all this nineteen thirties shit is just ridiculous But it's disgrace for whatever it is. Now listen, I've got loads of other emails here which we will do on Wednesday And also if you'd like to add to our emails, wherePoliticsmeets history at gllobal. com or leave questions on the WePolitics Meets History Instagram page. and we look forward to your company a day early. this week at the end of the week because I'm flirting with Rory, I'm burying the dead and Corey will be back from h. Do you think Rre is susceptible to your fl flirting I'm flirting Rory. Did I was gonna flirt with R?id I just. That was self conscious. I didn't even know I was saying then. Is what you your intend to do? Oh my good. intend to seduce Rory Stuart. By having a fantasy, No, it's not possible. I just remembered it's Rory Stewart. Shut up Anyway if it was Alistair, I'm gonna to see if you give me a free ticket for his book ofvent. I'm doing a book event E Rrichond On the eighteenth of july the How to Academy. General Sir Richard Barons. We're going to be talking about what makes a good genereneral and the world's situation, of course, which I'm a total expert on. Now to prove that I'm really nice to you. And the tickets are thirty five to forty five. Howy hellou.. Time to go And the tickets, a lot of them have being sold. Oh my good people are ridiculous. I know they're mad Shall I him by saying hate you. Anyway, tick us at the Indeles. com slash events. Oh, I hate you. Just let' us conform to stereotype. I hate him. You've been listening to a global original podcast. If you've enjoyed it, please do leave a review wherever you get your podcast from. I host four other podcasts which I hope you might like to try too. Ianale All Talk, which is an interview podcast every week. Presidents, Prime Ministers, mononarchs and Dictators, which again is a weekly podcast covering at the moment sixty four dictators one a week and Cross Question and Ian Dale the whole show And of course, you can listen to my LBC show live from seven to ten PM Monday to Thursday on FM in London on digital radio or all over the world on Global Player or your smart speaker See you next time, goodoodbye