History of Nova Scotia Whiskey

It's time for Windows Weekly Paul and Richard are here. So are you? We're glad you're here. There's lots to talk about it. It is a weekday or week D. Oh, it's a week Dah, I see, I got that wrong with a preview of July's patch Tuesday as well. Cory Dr's got a new book out. Paul doesn't like one of the terms he uses and it is a big Xbox segment including a look at the cost of the steam machine. Will you buy it? Find out next on Windows Weekly . Podcasts you love from people you trust . This is Twitter This is Windows Weekly with Paul Farat and Richard Campbell. Episode nine hundred and eighty nine recorded Wednesday june twenty fourth, twenty twenty six Dear Hate MSDN . I don't know what's happening exactly, but it's time for Windows Weekly. That's what's happening. Paul Thorada is here . Richard Campbell's here. The whole cast has assembled , which means it's time to talk Microsoft. Hello, Paul. Hello Leon. Beautiful McCungie, Pennsylvania. And it looks like Richard Campbell is for the moment back in beautiful Mad Park, British Columbia. Hello , and there's a slight haze on the sky. Beautiful day. A bit of a forest fire nearby up in Nelson Island. So is there excitement over the impending Canada Switzerland very much so yes. Because you know, Canada actually winning their very first World Cup game ever . It's kind of a big deal. So if they if they even tie, they go on to the knockout. And they go on thet knoockout. Congratulations. Kane. Everybody's excited. Yeah . Is that game during our show? Yes . I'm sorry forty five minutes. I'm gonna be fine . Oh, it's forty five. Oh, you know what? You could tune it in a few hours. It'll still be alone. It'll still be good because those games never end. It just feels like that actually they're only ninety minutes, technically technically . Let's let's get into the meat of the m as they say . We were talking earlier about strong tea, Yorkshire gold. This is Weak D . How about that for a segue? Yeah, it was pretty good. I mean, you had to set it up because most people were not privy to the previous comment. It's a strong T comment. It is with T, though. No, wait a minute. Is it june twenty fourth? I guess I guess it is. So what does that mean Paul, i? I had to look at it. What does it mean? Yes. So unless we have scheduling problems, week D eTuesday of week D is when we get the preview update that is a preview of the next month's patch Tuesday update, right? And you know, this is a good one in the sense that I wouldn't say there are any major changes, but there are some nice changes or some nice additions, maybe it's the way to say it. One is a feature called Point and Time Restore at Microsoft actually has started documenting separately. So this is part of the Windows Resiliency Initiative that they announced about a year and a half ago at Ignite and it is a modern replacement for system restore, which a lot of people watching and listening probably remember. It's still in Windows actually, if you can go find it, but this is a modern slash better better . This is a weird ad for Brad's book in the middle of my article and I don't know why. Anyhow, Brian . Yeah . So there's that. So that's cool. For individuals, if you're on home or pro when does eleven home or pro there's not much you can do to configure this thing. It's automatically on by default. You can turn it off . You can control the amount of storage it uses, but honestly, it manages that automatically. There's almost no reason to do it. It only holds seventy two hours worth of restored points . One of the well there are a bunch of improvements, like I said, but one of the key ones is that it actually includes the user files now, which was not the case with system restore. And you think about the way that things are in kind of the modern world, a lot of people are going to be doing Cloud Sync right with OneDrive or some service . There are two inconveniences. One is that you cannot launch this from within Windows. You can get into settings and see the couple of settings. You can turn it on and off and you can change the storage it uses, but you know, administrators in managed environments have more options, you know, for configuring. But you can only restore as of right now. I think this is going to change eventually, but you have to boot into the windows recovery environment to do or restore . There's a bunch of different ways to do that. But the, you know, in settings, you go, you know, system recovery , I think it's like advanced or something, you know, whatever advanced reboot the computer and it gives you a set of options on that blue screen that still has tiles for some reason because some things never get updated It's still out there and misses you terribly. Yeah, exactly. Just in case yeah, it's like lurking around the corner like a serial killer . So anyway, you go into troubleshooting. Yeah, this right. And we'll be full screen eventually, trust me. There is now a point in a point in time restore option. You can choose the option from there. But the trick, the other inconvenience is you have to type in a, I think it's I guess a forty eight digit bit locker recovery key. Yeah, you know, assuming that re thecovery key, rather, assuming that you've encrypted your disk, which I do, I did, and I've got it stored on the drive I can't log into . Yeah. That's not going to help. You know, for most consumers, it's going to be up in Ovene.D Ifri you did it yourself as a power user, maybe you did like a local account , you stayed you saved it, however you saved it. So I staffed bit warden and so it's I got it pulled up on my phone but you have to, you know, you want to have it on some other device next to you or print it out however you do it . Because you can't copy and paste into the recovery environment. You have forty eight characters is so much fun . Yes, it's the only thing it's got going for it is it's not alpha numeric, it's just numeric, but still it's like forty eight characters, you know, it takes a while. Anyway , it's pretty quick as a process. Like I said, there's no configuration. It's basically it's once every twenty four hours only do up to seventy two hours of restore points over three days or whatever that is. And it doesn't seem I mean I wouldn't mind if there's a total of seventy two hours but I could space it out. So it was like twenty four of those hours are a month ago and twenty four of those hours is two weeks ago and twenty four hours is like the past twenty four hours right . Like that would actually be useful. So if I don't fit something bad for days if you're in a managed environment, you can change all that You can't as an individual. I feel like this is going to change. I also feel like we're going to see this get into windows proper like you do reset. You start it there and then it reboots and does the thing. So who doesn't need to hop back to an older build just because hey, I missed this bit of corruption and I've been ignoring it for a week. And you tell me you've backed up over everything right . Well, this is also one of several recovery tools in Windows eleven now. And two of them, and then soon three of them are actually brand new, right for the past year . Let's see what? A quick machine recovery is now part of Windows eleven. By the way, that also shipped in a slightly different kind of weird state originally and now it makes more sense . Meaning in that case if it was actually triggering a reboot because something was wrong with a driver, it would look for a fix. And then if it didn't find it it, would re andbo lookot for a fix it would, reboot, look for a fix, and it would reboot like it would just keep going. And it's like what? So not only does it once and then it checks every, whatever the time frame is . And then of course, the other one is administrative protection, which is not there yet. They've taken that out or had taken it out and it's coming back. But you know , this is kind of this is some interesting stuff. There are options to kind of fix problems with Windows that don't require you to reset the PC , you know? I mean, I'm the way I am, and it's probably just my age. I mean, I'm just going to reset the PC all the time. I just don't care, but you can try to fix problems using Windows Update. There's a new tool for that. There's this thing . There's the quick machine recovery, which is an automatic recovery feature. So it's got, you know, I mean, honestly, that's, you know, for all the kind of surface level nonsense that's in Windows eleven, like there's some pretty good stuff in here now from this perspective. So that's cool . Ty the other two big ones are among those things that Microsoft announced as part of that pain point something they've been working on this year. So the new version of Windows Update, we can now pause updates for thirty five days using a calendar control , but then repause them as often as you want pretty much forever. I mean, those just means every thirty days you gotta reset the counter for another thirty days. Yeah, I mean, if you're crazy enough to be bothered by this, you know, you're going to want to do this so like whatever. I mean , this is not something that bothers me, but okay . And then the other one, of course, is the widget's thing, which is actually dramatically better, but I'm not sure how dramatic or better it's going to be excuse me for existing users, right? So what I mean by that is my advice for widgets has been you install Windows eleven, get in there. And the way it's configured by default is if you mouse over the icon on the task bar, the widgets thing comes up, which I'm moving the mouse thing around like a spaz all the time anyway. So like, I do that by mistake. I hate it. So I was turning that off. And then it displays a weather forecast, but it will display notifications of different kinds. So there are notifications tied to the widgets you have in there. There's also notifications tied to the news , you know, the Microsoft Discovery feed or Microsoft Starf, whatever they call it, I think whatever the star the Microsoft feed is . You and I turn those off, right ? But right sometime, I don't know a year and a half ago, they also gave you , actually, I'm not sure this is true anymore. I feel like we've gone back and forth on this, but at some point Microsoft has also provided a way to turn off the feed, right? You could just not have a feed. I don't remember the time frame on that one. But the default configuration for this thing is now going to be what I just described. It's the thing I do on every computer manually , but now will be the default. You won't do it on Mouseover. You have to click it , you won't see the feed. You'll just see your widgets and there aren't any notifications. For the most part, every once in a while it can actually throw up a small notification, but not like it does now. It's not super like communicative about whatever. It's a windy out or whatever, you know, there's some stock price thing going on, whatever it is . The reason I'm not sure if this is going to make a difference for most people is that I don't know that this, I don't think they're going to revert a configuration to this on an existing install, right? So if you get this update and you get the widget update , I think it's just going to be the way it was for you. Like you still have to go in and change those things if you if they bother you. If you do a new install or do a reset, you'll probably get the new widget experience. So I've been kind of testing this among other things. It's not really clear, but just based on the way things work, I can't imagine they're going to force that on people maybe have configured it however they want it, right? They're not going to change that. And there's a bunch of other stuff that you know this is not the new task bar, but there are some tasbar fixes around some of the visuals with badges that appear of our icons. There's that right click setting we talked about previously on touch beds because it was in a release preview improvements to Bluetooth , voice access, voice typing, Zoom, in magnifier, et cetera, et cetera. So there's stuff . But sorry, my father is calling me, so every device I own is spazing out. Okay , yep , so that's that. So this is coming to this update is available if you have twenty four H two and twenty five H two. It's not on twenty six H one and I don't think there is a twenty six H one preview update yet. So that suggests maybe we'll get one of those soon . We're two weeks away from Patch Tuesday, right? So it's probably going to happen some point. And it's possible and probable that twenty six A twenty is like a month behind still out in the public release. So we'll see what happens, but that's where that is now. Okay , just I'm going to mention this here . I don't want to take up back at the book time for this again, but you know, I'm updating the Windows eleven field guide and I want to make this as short as possible because I spent approximately eleven months figuring this out. But I originally wanted to do a different edition of the book for twenty five H two, and I wanted to make the book shorter. So I spent a lot of time working on formats and layouts to make things shorter and writing parts of it and it just never came together . So I just started updating the existing book and I kind of pushed that off to twenty six H two, the next release right . And now I'm like, why didn't I do this last year? Because now this book, I'm consolidating chapters, I'm doing screenshots differently . I'm simplifying the layout. It's not the new layout I want to do, but it's already significantly shorter than it was, right? It used to be over I think it was like twelve hundred pages long. It's just under it's like nine hundred and ninety pages now . It's much smaller on disk and that will keep happening because I have a set of chapters I'm going to update very soon includ,ing a consolidated chapter about Help and Recovery where that will include a tool I just talked about , which will be one chapter not five or six chapters or whatever it was before. So I'm kind of doing that throughout the book and it's it's nice. Yeah . It's really nice. It's mostly nice for me because I realize no one's ever going to read any of the things I'm doing, but it's just so it's just so great to get this done. I'm more excited about it than I should be. But so you might get it down to a page count and actually fit in a binding . Yeah, maybe. And then well, I mean, you know, like send the Kindle works, like that's there. I can't like host the files on my site for my like for premium guys. This is the one book I have to put somewhere else because it's just the files just too big and I'm kind of hoping I can get it down for that reason, you know, but just to make it more manageable I still have the binders from the MSDN. I think there's ten or six yes they would do. I could just put it in there. That would come in. Yeah, we would definitely need like one of those solid three ring binders that has like a spine that's like four inches thick, you know . It's better. It'd be a whole seven foot shelf of MSDN. Oh yeah, I used to like that in the day. All the ADHD going to getting those discs every whatever a month and then replacing them in the sleeves is like the greatest activity for my broken brain that I can possibly imagine a month I just sit down and s ort disks a lot . It has ruined some things . It's ruined a lot worth of expired DVDs. It's like, what do I do with these? Do you shred them ? Yeah, I think you're supposed to shred them. I would never shred a disc like that. I have shredded. I did get an optical disc shredder like my, you know, the data disks because at one time you were backing up on these things, right? I think the Microsoft license, you know, encourages you to destroy them after use because they don't want you to bring it to a , you know, you know what? I'm actually sure it does . But I don't it's I don't know. It was a different we weren't happy to them. We didn't we didn't care about recycling in the two thousands or whatever . I mean, we did, but I don't know. Dask AOL. It was a lot of disks. Yeah. That's when we had lots of plastic. That's right. That was before it was all in the ocean. I feel like they would make good , you know, coffee and tea mug coasters, right? There you go . Anyway, so I use it for my Christmas tree actually. It's frankly excuse me. Oh there you go. That's nice too. Sprinkly . I know for them to put them out on their lawns to keep the crows off 'cause they 've got a deer lawn the deer. Yeah, yeah, fl theag deer hate MSDN. They are absolute enemy. Yes, they're immortal enemies . Yeah. So there was one big , well, one set of insider releases, right? They don't do these one at a time anymore. So I think last week we had the record that was seven builds this week or this past week it was five . There's nothing really notable in any of these, but the updates well, well,, with one exception, just notable from a news perspective , beta, twenty five H two , minor improvements, like reliability type improvements, start taskbar settings, et cetera Experimental, which is twenty four and twenty five H two . We're going to talk about that one in a second, but some of those same changes and then minor changes to some of the sub the secondary windows and file explorer that make them work better in dark mode or work at all in dark mode, I guess . The twenty six H one Beta , same kinds of things as reliability small things, and an experimental twenty six H one. And I who and then I'm sorry, an experimental future, but who cares? You can't take none of this makes any sense. It doesn't make sense to me reading it. It won't make sense to you hearing it. It's just ridiculous . But the one thing they did say, which raises some interesting questions , is that I just want to get I want to say it the way they say it because it's not it's still not completely clear because Microsoft, you know, you get to stick with what you do best , which is communicate poorly in this case dot dot dot, where is this? Devices that are enrolled in the experimental channel, right ? Now, in Microsoft's new scheme, there are two main channels, beta and experimental. Experimental used to be dev But also there' resle ase preview and each of those channels actually has at least two sub channels. So they don't actually address this. But if you know what experimental is, you know that there's twenty four and twenty five H two . I don't think we wrote about this day, but I believe Microsoft is this month starting to people always write this like it's dramatic in like force upgrade computers to twenty five H two, but that's ahead of twenty four H two exiting support in October, right? Right. So these systems are the same. They're not they don't just look the same. They don't just have features. They're literally the same. It's just a build string number. So they are doing that now . But anyway, they don't address that in the post, but if you have a computer in running Windows eleven twenty four or twenty five H two and you put it in experimental , this is going to shift over to twenty six H two testing. soon In fact, it technically you already did if you install the latest build because it just changes the name , you know, the version name or whatever in the about box in Winver, however you're doing it . They also said that this thing is built on the same code base as twenty four twenty five H two, right? Which is nice because that means this will be an enablement package installed would be super simple, fast, it was to reboot, but it'll be quick. The bit they did not say was , well, what about the people on twenty six H one, right? Right? twenty six H one technically is only for Windows eleven on RMPC s that ship new with Snapdrag and X two based hardware . So okay, that's right . So where and where does the X one folks end up? Are they ? The X one folks unless they put their computer in the Insider program, which maybe is a contorted way to answer your question , they will get twenty six H two . Right . Yep. Okay, so it's only the X two folks. It's only X two, right? Literally X to H one. Now there could be well we'll see. So, you know, one of the things we've speculated about this is whether this is going to become Windows twelve, right? Because it could just be called Windows eleven something, Windows eleven version dot dot dot, right? Someone I do a weekly thing called Aspol and Friday. It's kind of a write in , an yous knoww, answered question er thing. And someone asked me like what's going on with Windows twelve? And I it caused me to go back and look what I had written about this. And there was a period of time in it was early twenty twenty three, Microsoft was at first rumored to be bringing out this AI stuff that was going to come to Bing, I think was the first rumor. In February, they announced that . And there were rumors that Microsoft, they didn't talk about at the time, but there was they talked about AI , which became co pilot in Bing and in Edge, right ? And you know, my initial write up about the Windows angle was like, it's interesting they haven't talked about windows, you know ? Such an adult gave some interview around this time separate from that event where he talked about bringing AI, which again, at that time were not, they were not calling co pilot to all of Microsoft's products, you know ? And the initial thought there was, well, this must mean like Microsoft three hundred and sixty five, right? Which of course it did. They in March, I think they announced Microsoft Microsoft Windows three hundred and sixty five. Microsoft three hundred and sixty five. In other words, like them bringing the AI capabilities like when you think about AI capabilities across Microsoft's, you know, platforms, you're like, well, they're talking like Microsoft three hundred and sixty five to me was the most obvious initial, you know, kind of thought . But we were saying that because we figured the windows guys couldn't get their act together, but that was previously yeah. Yeah. But then there were these things. Remember, you know, Panel Spine , there were two events. He stood on stage with Lisa from Lisa Lu. Lisa Lu is that her name from AMD, Lisa, whatever her name is Sue, Sue, thank you. And he talked very vaguely about how AI was going to change everything , you know? And I was like, okay, so he's AI's coming to Windows obviously . And then there was that weird event where he went to Bill. We talked about this last week, I think and just completely blew it because they took away his know got hijacked. Yeah, his big announcement was gone. He had nothing to talk about. He fumbled around Steve people in front and go somewhere else. He don't know the audience . People like the stage, you know? I don't know. But Stevie Bvenat Micheteish it did a drive by, literally. I mean, on the way to the airport, stop by build and talk for fifteen minutes about AI and how we're going to have this stuff in apps. And it was awesome. You know, it was still to this day, I think the greatest presentation I've ever seen in this area . And you know, Qualcomm announced that they had solved the problems with armed chips, you know, for Windows, but this was still six months away before they actually announced those chips and then a year before they announced the computers, right? So it was like, yeah, maybe we'll see all this stuff was happening, you know ? So at that time, I was thinking, well , this must be this will be Windows twelve, right? This AI and Windows thing, this is going to be the break, you know, has to be. But it wasn't, right? Because history shows us that Microsoft was preparing twenty three H two at the time, the release that set the stage for everything we're experiencing now , where one month before that thing would have shipped in October , they released the final monthly update for the previous , well, not really, but the final one before the new release in September, I guess. And they just every feature but one from twenty three H two was just splashed out to the whole world in a monthly cumulative update. And it was this was Microsoft forcing us to get that co pilot up, right? I left out some of the history there, but you know, announced Microsoft three hundred and sixty five co pilot, I think in March, they announced the co pilot naming thing at some point. They announced that co pilot would be coming to Windows at Build that year, right ? And then they announced, well, then they released this stuff out in the world and they kept moving the icon around, the app kept changing. Remember we used to freak out about this. Where's it now? Yeah, you know , it's as confusing now as it was then actually . But so when twenty three H two didn't really kind of happen the way we were thinking and then it wasn't Windows twelve , I was like and we knew there was going to be local AI, but we didn't know how good it was going to be . It seemed like well maybe that will be Windows twelve. But that became CoPilot plus PC, right? That was that was like the next time they could have just gone with a brand but didn't . Co pilot plus PC is really just a set of features that can run on Home or Pro . And you know, if you have that hardware, you get additional features in apps like paint and photos and notepad and and you know, the snipping tool you get like new apps, you know, things like click to do and recall, which everyone still loves so much . And then that year kind of went by, you know, like twenty four H two happened. There was the weird thing where like Copilot Pussby C guys got the Snapdragon got twenty four H two early, right? It shipped in June, like an early version. They kept updating it, shipped to rest of the world in October . It they had the, you know, ARM and AM or sorry, AMD and Intel came on board with their own versions of co pilot plus PC chipsets, et cetera, et cetera. But this whole time it's like, okay, but what about like what about Windows? Like Windows twelve? Like when's this gonna happen? The thing is, since then , we have this high end spec for Copy Plus PC, which I think is the right spec for any PC . But we have a component crisis. And now we have low end ship sets from Intel and Arm from Qualcomm now and low memory sets. Low memory. Right. And we're going to talk about that in a moment. And so computers are now starting to ship again with eight gigabytes around RAM. They're not co pilot plus PCs. They don't get that local thing . But we just went through a build where they and I don't know if it was last week, the week before, but I've kind of talked through this notion that hybrid AI, which as a term makes immediate sense if you know anything about this stuff because you're like, yes, it's going to be some combination of local and cloud based AI. I actually think it's way more and not nuanced, but I think it's way more to it than just that, but that's a simple way to say it . And it will have to orchestrate between these things. The agent stuff is actually happening. I mean, they talked about it last year . They shipped it sort of in Windows fairly recently. You don't really see it doing anything yet , but this is kind of the year for that. And now I'm thinking, well, I wonder if this is going to be the , you know , you know, does CoPilot plus PC transition into what I think of as Windows twelve. Does someone on an X two base computer today who has twenty six H one, do they just get some cold pilot plus PC version of twenty six H two or is that Windows twelve? Like I, you know, we don't know. They never They never said like we're doing this, you know , I do look at time frames. I mean, you know, Windows ten came out in July twenty fifteen. Windows eleven was announced in june twenty twenty one but released in October that year . So that's about what six years, right? We are now five years from that . So a six years is release of Windows twelve would make some amount of sense. I mean , of course, if you go back further in time, those time frames don't make any sense at all. Windows twelve to fifteen was sorry, windows . Windows eight to ten was three years . With some big updates in the middle, by the way, windows seven to eight was three years . Windows vista to seven was three years . And then Windows XP to Vista was what, like, seventeen years? I can't remember, but it was a long time. It was so here we are five years . Yeah. So it's like twenty twenty one. You know, not that these things always have to line up. I mean, that's not the way the world works. A lot of times Windows versions can and should be about new hardware innovations. And what's that dividing line? And where does that make sense? And we also don't want to float three versions. So obviously ten had to go by. Yes . Right. Yep. Yeah, are now in a position to have a twelve. But I think you're on to that point here where you can't put out a hardware spec that people can't buy . Yeah Yeah, it's, I think from Microsoft, I wouldn't be surprised if we discovered at some point there was at different times a plan for a Windows twelve and that some sequence of events, whether it was just a terrible reception of AI in Windows eleven, the poor performance of that stuff, the I don't know the local AI versus cloud AI hybrid thing not coming together. So maybe we'll just do this co pilot plus PC and that at least will be a way for PC makers to sell more expensive premium products and maybe that helps the market. We don't know. Yeah. And then the component crisis happens and screws a you know, throws a grenade in the whole thing. Yeah . Well in the AI bubble deflating too. Like why are you going to start designing an operating system based on an environment you know isn't going to be around in another year? Yeah. Really? You think that's the case? Well, I think the prices are going to change. Hybrid's gonna have to be more essential. Like there's so much shift going on and the hardware is constrained. By the way, regardless of component crisis stuff, hybrid AI was always going to be the biggest inevitable. I mean, yeah it was, it was just always happening. And you know, we talk about this a lot. Like, you know, just as is the case in the cloud when you look at locally it has improved so dramatically . And you know, what you really need is some system where whatever it is, the operating system you're at, whatever you're using is going to do what it can locally . Does that make sense for you? And then, you know, in the same way that you might go into whatever system you're using if you like use GitHub, you're like, well, I have anthro anpologic cloud key or whatever it is. I could put it in there and use that. You know, you might do the same thing in Windows. And maybe you're getting, I don't know, maybe through a Microsoft three hundred and sixty five subscription, you get some stuff like you do today actually . Maybe you can point it at a third party AI, you know, whatever it is. Like there'll be some system of orchestrating which AI is used when I just think it's not there yet. Like I think this is going to take some work. And so, you know, Stevie Patich again, like the hybrid AI, I'm not even sure you use that term, but I don't remember, but I think of it as hybrid AI, whatever the wording was , I think, you know, my thinking now is that if there is a Windows twelve, if we actually do go to this, that will be the dividing point and that Windows eleven will continue to exist. They're doing that work this year like Apple is doing in their platforms to make it work better in lower end systems or systems with well yeah, lower end systems with fewer resources, whether it's RAM storage, CPU power, whatever it is, MPU, et cetera . This is going to be good for people who have computers that they want to keep using maybe or will have to keep using because they'll work better. So no matter what computer you have, it will just work better . That's neat. I mean, whether it's good in eight gigabytes or RAM, we'll see. But then you get to this idea of you used to build the next operating system on the next generation hardware . Yeah . And how do you do that right now? Or do you dial it back? Do you well so by the way, so we have the existing program . We are improving, like I described. But the next hardware platform, I believe Nvidia just announced it, right? This is the one if you think about the difference between a computer just as a CPU , and it probably has an integrated GPU of whatever variety, they were often very crappy and today they're actually going to be very good, but they're in some range. But they don't have really MP. There was no intel, twelfth, gen anything that had to MP U like they just was not a thing, right? So you come up with a CoPilot plus PC for us with Snapdragon and those you know, for forty tops MPU compared to no MPU is fairly impressive. I mean, we didn't do a lot with it , but pretty impressive. For the second genex two stuff, it's eighty or eighty five tops, I believe are the numbers. So double , you know, all the tasks you never do will always run twice as fast in hours. I have no idea how that works. But the NVIDIA thing is the conversation we keep having about GPUs, which is like, this is not tens of tops. This is several hundreds of tops or even thousands of tops . And that's I think that's the next hardware platform. So you know increasing, I think tops is an oper ated measurement. Listen to me hertz myth. I disagree with that. Yeah, just like the memory. Memory bandwidth, memory capacity . Yeah . Because a lot of the local models you'd like to run need a lot of RAM, and RAM is, of course, of scarcity. Your RAM is the bigger deal. Yeah. Yeah,. yeah And so that's why I sort of think that well and that's why that, you know, the initial systems they're talking about, one hundred and twenty gigs RAM those things, right? This is bad timing for this product. It's not going to be a mainstream thing this year. But the way the world works regardless of component shortage is prices come down , you know, things will happen. So this may force them not to talk about it this year and maybe we look at it next year later. I don't know. But I feel like that is the next platform. Like this is the it feels like a workstation right now but is essentially what will become the mainstream computer for hybrid AI at a time when Windows will have that sophisticated orchestrator to handle rooting of where things go and the stuff you do locally is going to be the other thing fricking great on that thing, right? Since they blocked Fable is a lot of people are looking at local what's the best local model I can run . And by the way, and you know, we talked, I think we talked about this last week, but in the sense that I'm always looking for the positive and everything, you know me Light. I am of positivity . You know, I did look at the component crisis stuff and we're going to talk more about PC prices going up, but you know, the silver lining in here is the stuff related to Apple and Microsoft improving those platforms. You know, when you are forced to make do with limitations, you can actually innovate in ways that are pretty exciting. You wouldn't bother even trying otherwise . And again, I'm not thanking AI for ruining everything , but if this is what puts local AI over the top . If this is what makes Windows and the Mac and whatever Apple makes and Google Stuff, whatever it is, more efficient and more respectful resources on the device, et cetera, et cetera. I mean , I'm not saying it's a net win for the whole world, but for this part of the world it is. And you know, I'll accept that, you know, it doesn't matter why they did it. We're all going to benefit from it. Whether we buy a new computer or keep the computer we already have. So I think this maybe this is the little push locally I needed, you know? Certainly NVIDI's working to make these more efficient, but I don't know, I think there's a limit. I mean really do. , one of the things people are doing now is running GLM, the GPU from ZAI model. But to run that locally, GLM fifty two, which is a very good model. It's almost opus quality. Right. You need two hundred and fifty six gigs of RAM. Who has that? And if you went out and said, Oh, well, you know, it's all about tops and bought a fifty ninety for five thousand dollars , that's thirty two gigs of RAM. You're going to be running gemini , but you're going to have lots of that do this you can do the specialty version of the five thousand nine with ninety six gigs, but that's out of the end I think that was ten thousand dollars if you can find one. There's this tier regardless of names and brands and whatever . there is Like this tiered system that has existed enough for two years between what I call like normal PCs and co pilot plus PCs. This new Nvidia thing is another tier on top of that and maybe they brand , you know, one the top one is twelve because that's what makes sense. But the, you know, like I said, I think Windows eleven will continue for, you know, until his ten years, whatever it is for some period of time. And be the one where you know, it's funny because we all pitched and moved when this thing came out like about the hardware requirements and now they seem quaint and you can have a computer that has eight gigabytes of RAM and two hundred fifty six gigs of storage and good luck, but you're not going to be running , you're not going to be neo. Well, but and this is the world you want to bring Windows twelve into . But you're also not going to this is a weird thing. Like in other words, you have to pay a lot of money to get a good machine that can run local AI really well. A two hundred and fifty six gig computer like you were talking about is unobtainable for basically everybody, but there's yeah, right now . But if you're using an aching, you know, Windows laptop and a year or whatever it is and you know you don't have an MPU or you don't have a powerful MPU and you don't have enough RAM anyway, it doesn't matter. You're going to be using a lot either exclusively or mostly cloud AI, in which case you may find yourself spending money every month on that thing, right? And so if you think about it, you know, what's the difference between or does it make sense that there is a difference between you have an existing computer or a cheap computer you just bought ? And you have to pay, let's call it twenty bucks a month to access whatever the AI thing is , or you spend three thousand or five thousand or whatever thousand on some super expensive local AI wonder thing , and you can actually do a lot of that without having to pay monthly for AI . So it's still cheaper to do the first thing . It spreads it out, which everyone well, not everyone. A lot of people do anyway, plus it's like a subscription thing, which we're all stupidly familiar with . And it so it kind it does kind of bridge the gap for now, if that makes sense, right? I mean, there's two ways to do it. And I think eventually it will tilt very heavily toward local AI, but for now the world is what it is. Well, let's talk about hardware in just a second. You actually have some machines to take a look at . Yeah. Let me just so sorry, Joe Sposito has a question in here that's kind of interesting. It's like , you know, the driving innovation thing, yes, you know . But what about what's this going to do to smaller players, right? Like in the market, whether they're hardware, software, you know, whatever it is. And this is actually a big deal. I don't care about nothing. The phone maker, but they just announced their next phone is not going to happen because they can't afford the RAM , you know, and that if they did pay for the RAM for their phone , the phone would be too expensive, no one would buy it. And that's a really good example of like an independent, well not independent or Chinese, but a small company, relatively speaking, very small , who just can't afford to live in this world now because of these problems . And that's absolutely going to be part of it. This is if you look across, we'll talk about the video game stuff, of course, later. I think we're going to see this in the PC market. And I think we're going to see this in electronics generally . There's going to be a lot of consolidation because there has to be. You know, this is a downturn. There's no doubt about it. Yeah , it's unfortunate, but that's definitely what's gonna happen. Hey, it's one of the better reasons to delay Windows twelve is we got to wait for the hardware to sort itself out. Yeah . But I would think the thing you want from a notion of Windows this world that you can use your GPU as an NPU , right? You know, just open that whole model up. So I keep looking for some hint that that's going to change. Bill, remember they announced, I think it was just three APIs, but three major on device local AI APIs that were previously exclusive to CoPilot plus PC will now be available to different types of computers that have a good a good CPU and our GPU, which can't include integrated GPU . So that's one thing . But one of the hardware things we'll talk about in a moment after the Atigus is what happens when Microsoft comes up with a surface that only has eight gigabytes of RAM and every one of those devices for the past three I guess two years has been a co pilot plus PC . What's going what happens then I'm thinking the other five is going to shock you. Yeah . And there's another question I have and I don't this may be too general and broad, but why does Microsoft release a new version of Windows? What are the what are the forces that impel it to do so? You know, is there? Don't answer hold that thought. I'm going to give you a chance to actually , this time, think about your life. I'm picturing a monkey with an organ grinder and a little like a little puppet thing comes out of it. I think that's how they go through it, but I'll get into it. But it's an interesting, it's a real question. It's like, is it just to sell more computers? I mean, what is it technology driving it . We had the argument that eleven was purely a response to the new MacOS release . Yeah, and I think at the time we also said and it's to help the OEMs sell computers in a more abundant market because the market had understood. So by the way, I do think a lot and I think this that was what CoPilot plus PC was. That's a modern example of Microsoft, you know, doing a thing. I don't know if it's like an initiative. There's a brand, there's a, you know , a logo and , you know, Intel does this a lot by the way. They don't have not evo pieces. Yeah. I mean, you see Intel Intel has specifications for things that meet certain whatever, you know, they coin the tederm AI PC and you know, that is as exciting as Copilo Plus BC It's like a political action committee. Yeah, just but abortions were okay, right? So it's like a you went there. No it's it's a sorry, it was an intel joke if you can believe it. So I'd just say like it's not a bad thing that Microsoft will try to drive unit sales growth in the market. That's no, you know, their ecosystem, those are their partners . I'm not saying these good or bad. I'm just curious. Yeah. Anyway, but I think that's a big I know. I'm sorry. That is I think that's a big part of it. Part of it. I'm pricing now and fifty six gigs of RAM. I think it's coming up about five grand right now. Oh jeez . Okay . Just for the RAM. Just for the DDR. And that's DDR five. Yeah. I'm gonna start just selling people a laptop so they can strip a RAM out of it, you know? Save your old computers, kids. They're going up in value. Well, you'd have to say the computer just the RAM Our show today, we're gonna take a break, come back. You're watching Windows Weekly with Paul and Richard, our show today is brought to you by Webroot . 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Yeah, hardware in this Windows twelve mode. Actually , do you want to answer that question that I posed before we do that. Like why? Yeah. Why would you want to release Windows twelve? So first you get a roulette wheel and I don't know. I mean, it's, you know, I think there are different reasons at different times and there are combinations of reasons, right? I mean, if you go back to the nineties, one of the things everyone would have said about Windows at that time , one of one of the things it was like ahead of the hardware. Like this thing will run awesome when we have better hardware with the next hardware. Yeah. We have not had this problem for a long time, right? No, I mean it's been true essentially since two thousand . Yes. I mean, and if you, you know, in this place, I have dozens of like Intel, core, twelfth gen, thirteenth, gen, eleventh, gen etic, varying amounts of RAM, hopefully usually sixteen, I would think . Those run windows great, you know? It's a weird thing. I mean, I'm always moving on to the next thing that's part of my job. But I bring up some of these computers first doing screenshots and things. Of course now with the stuff they're doing Windows, you kind of will look at that, whatever. But that hasn't been a reason for a while . Sometimes there are hardware innovations. Sometimes there are competitors like Apple. You know, Apple comes out with OS ten in two thousand one or whatever . They're doing hardware accelerated graphics. Windows is doing bitmap graphics where the icons are literally a specific size or a small size pretty . So they look terrible when you scale them up. We've got high DPI screens, we've got multi touch screens, we start doing smart pens , you know, whatever the thing is, you know, you would sometimes Microsoft responds just to look at them to market things. Sometimes they actually are on the leading edge of it, trying to push other makers or PC makers or whatever to adopt new things, things they see as being kind of interesting for the future . Sometimes these things fall flat in their face. Sometimes they go absolutely nowhere . I would say, you know, like maybe I'm an outlier, I don't know, but the way I use a computer today is not that different to how I did twenty twenty, five years ago, really. Right? I mean, we have thinner, lighter, faster computers, there's more RAMs, more storage. The Cloud Sync thing has been really nice. Like that's a big deal, I think . But for me, multi touch table t smart pen is kind of came and went. If you are someone who likes to take notes or write by hand, that's not true. If you're an artist, that's not true . So those things are still out there and they they still, you know, they still work really well. Obviously, of course, they do. They don't decline in functionality per se, but you know, Bill if you would ask Bill Gates in, I don't know, two thousand three, he would have told you every computer in the future is going to be a tablet PC computer. And that's not the case. You know, that didn't happen. So they know the panic in twenty ten, twenty eleven to make Windows A to counter the tablet just overestimated the impact the tablet was going to have. Yeah, I think yeah, so you know, the thing for my I mean to be fair to them. Apple can't that was the third of three enormous innovations or however you want to say that out of Apple, right? You know, the iPod first , which is a classic Apple product in the sense that they did not invent this technology. No, they just looked at the market and said, you know, we could do this better . They did the same thing again with the the IPO profound was the ninety nine cents song , which, you know, largely jobs convinced them. Well, yes, but it was that music industry did not. But remember, it also had a one like a what was the size of the SSD Toshiba had made it? Yeah, yeah, so they had a terabyte drive that actually was a hard drive. If I'm not mistaken five inches never set at capacity, they only said a thousand songs in your pocket, which was big. Yeah, but we could have I mean so it must have been a it was a terrible it was a terrible yeah we know so in that size and something that could make sense in a so you're going up against flash based devices that are clunky that have only, you know, sixteen gigabytes of storage or some stupid amount . This was an attractive proposition. You could put every song you own on a thing. And then of course, yeah, like Richard said, they came to the store. They legitimized digital music purchasing and so forth. It was great. They did that. It was like, okay, and that, you know, there was a period of time there iPod was over twenty five or sorry fif,ty percent of their revenues. I mean, the iPod, they were the iPod company, you know, until they weren't because they came with the iPhone. And iPhone was stratospheric. I mean, that took it in a different direction. But changing it's a phone. Yeah, it's not a a comp compututer. I mean, it is er, right? It is but it's not a desktop computing device for most people. Yep. Yeah, which is something they were talking about this in the discord, which and this is something I bring up all the time , which is, you know, is it better to start with something simple as a platform and then build capabilities on top of it? You could make the argument kind of Apple does that sort of with the iPad maybe? Or is it better to start with something complicated? Which Apple also did by the way with MacOs ten, which came from Next Step, which came from Unix or Mac Kernel Unix, whatever, or free BSD . And Windows, you know, we did this in, you know, we have NT, we have like regular Windows, NT Windows, and then we have like Windows CE and Windows Mobile and you know, we're cutting and cutting and cutting and trying to get to this thing that makes sense . You know, there are different ways to do it, right ? And then, of course, now we have AI. So now we can just tell AI to do it. I think was what someone was trying to say, which is kind of funny which is, you know , yeah, you know, we'll see, but I don't know. What I do know is that for some unknowable period of time, we're going to be suffering through this component crisis. It's raising prices dramatically. And it does derail the need for new us . And I would double up on knowing that AI is going to go through major transmitter rations in the next year or two , why would you try and design an OS against the current state of it? So this is a pick your parallel to the past kind of a contest, right? So Microsoft at any given time has had a couple of different versions of Windows in the market being supported at the same time, right ? The most dramatic version of that maybe was when they had NT and DASPA windows at the same time. You know, there was this you could, you know, you could see how they differentiated it. You needed a really powerful computer to run NT . And so they nine X and whatever the DOS versions of Windows were for consumers. And then this other thing was for businesses and workstations and servers and that kind of thing. And you could make a pretty good argument that this is an environment to do that as well, right? If Windows twelve becomes the thing that was NT , we keep selling Windows eleven and improving it, and it runs on normal computers as we think of them today We are counting on just as they were counting on with NT, that prices will come down on this expensive hardware, the capabilities will continue to improve. And hopefully that doesn't happen in five years. Hopefully it happens in a year or two years maybe, but we don't know, you know, so look it, there has to be a reason Microsoft has been so weird about this. That's the thing that kills me . they L'ikeve, just never not been vague about it. So I don't know. We have twenty six A twenty one and they're like, it will get something. We're just not gonna tell you what it is . Okay , I don't know why. Like what could you just tell us? I think it's tied to the Nvidia thing, but anyway, we'll see. So Microsoft a couple of weeks ago announced new generation Surface laptop and pro based on Snapdragon X two plus an elite a couple of weeks or three, four weeks, whatever it was before that , they announced the new versions of those products for business, based on intel chipsets . They said this at the time. No one paid attention, but they did say there would be eight gigabyte configurations of these machines in the future. Remember these things came at the gate three to five hundred dollars more per model than their predecessors, right for the same configurations . And because of this component crisis because Microsoft is essentially a boutique PC maker , they They said, look, we don't have them now, but we're going to we're going to release these things at some point. And I have to be honest, I thought they meant in the fall. I didn't think it was going to happen, but they just quietly added those configurations to their surface dot com website. So if you look at the latest surface laptop in Pro , you can now buy eight gigabyte configurations with two hundred fifty six two hundred fifty six fifty six . two hundred and fifty six, he says, learning the language . Gigabytes of storage . If you're buying a laptop, it's nine hundred fifty is the starting price for that. And if you're buying the Pro, which by the way, does not come with a keyboard , eight hundred and fifty dollars . To go from that to sixteen gig , you have to do two things . One is, well, you have to pay more, sorry. You pay three hundred dollars more, right? But you also get only the eight gig configuration in a single color choice, which is one of the other weird problems with surface, right? Like when I bought my surface laptop two years ago, what I wanted was a platinum colored fifteen minute surface laptop with thirty two gigs of Ram and one turby storage and that was not they did not sell that product. I could get it in black or I don't know if they had a dark another dark color. I don't remember what it was, but it was a color I did not want . And that's what happens, you know, and they don't sell a lot of computers. So you don't really get a lot of these choices which is kind of terrible. If I didn't make this point last week, I do want to make it again. Lenovo has I think it's a fifteen point three or fifteen point five inch laptop, Snapdragon X , plus sixteen gigs of RIM, five hundred and twelve gigs of storage that you can buy right now from their website for eight hundred and forty nine dollars That. is the same price as a eight gig surface pro with no keyboard. It's one hundred bucks less than an eight gig surface laptop with no keyboard. And it's an awesome computer. That's a that's, you know, and that's just one computer, but it's a but it's a really good example of a rare deal that exist today. It's been here for months. I don't know how it's not disappeared, but there it is . That's a better computer. It's also made by a company that knows how to make computers. You could store that out there . But the one you know, I keep holding up Tim Well, Apple, but Tim Cook really as the company slash leader for lack of a better term, who has the firmest grip on hardware component, availability, pricing, etc , right? They sell in such huge volume, they get preferential pricing and consideration. Except now they don't, right? It turns out NVIDIA spend s more at these at TSMC and wherever else and spends more with the companies that are making memory and spends more, you know, in a couple of other places. And now Apple is they're on the bench. And Tim Cook gave an interview with the Wall Street Journal where he said price increases are inevitable. There is some thought that that could happen before the next gener ices come out in the fall . There is a prime sale thing going on right now. If you have your eye on any hardware and it's on sale, you might want to you might want to think about it because I think these things are all going to go up pretty dramatically. And if I remember correctly, the Wall Street Journal had a nice well this I do remember , there's a nice chart where they show all the components in the phone. And if there are fifteen of them, the price doesn't change on thirteen of them, but the RAM and the storage go up not exponentially but dramatically like five X. And so their estimate was that new iPhones, for example, are going to have to be at least two hundred dollars more per model for the same configuration this coming year compared to last year . That's Apple though. And that's the thing. When people People like look at like surface computers and like, this is out of whack. You know, what's going on? It's like, you got to remember they're not getting preferential pricing. Apple is and those prices are going to go pretty dramatically I'm really curious to see what this world looks like. It's going to be ugly. If anybody can get a deal on hardware is Tim Cook. That's his claim to fame, right? Oh, yeah, yeah. I mean, look, I get I get notifications on my phone when my dad calls and my daughter texts. He gets them when the component price of something goes up by a cent and some spreadsheet changes. You know, this is where his head is at. He's really good at this. Yeah , and Apple has the, you know, the scale now where they can just do what they can do, but Apple suddenly is not number one in this capacity, which is kind of interesting. You know, maybe that NVIDIA computer will be cheap. They're getting good photo prices. I don't know. Yeah, but I don't know why NBI would bother building a computer right now. When they just need to ship their cards, which is what everybody's demanding of them, right? That spark. I mean, right, they have well, that's a self reference model. Someone I'm not outing anyone for I'm sure they're making a good point of some kind, but the headline was something like Nvidia's real advantage is in hardware it's software and it's like no it's hardware It's hardware. No, it's I know it's no. That's what I'm at. It's anti law bug into their hardware. But you have to like they have so many units out in the world that this is this has become the lock in, right? It's the it is yes it's CUDA but it's yeah, I mean they're so popular that having CUDA compatibility which I believe is essentially what they're doing on the client, right with this new generation of computers and chips is interesting. But I don't see any I mean, you can't do CUDA on like AMD hardware, right? No, and there's models can't run because I have an AMD Halo Strix computer and it doesn't do Cuda . So that is a lock in. I mean, there are there are models that work best with CUDA . I mean, we've never heard of a hardware company doing lock in through software before. Apple's working as fast as they can to do the same with MLX, right? That's their version. Of course . And people because they there were a lot of Mac minis in Mac studios sold because of their bandwidth, memory band, it's quite good on yep silicon. But geeze I mean, yeah, I think that actually is the primary advantage there because I don't I don't actually think they're silicon is particularly good. You know, compared to the best MP's and GPU's in the world, I mean whatever, I'm sure they're good good.. It's very But I don't I don't think they're like, Normally we never press against those limits . So it's only because of this particular workload that suddenly we care about memory bamwidth rates. You know, we've seen little things like this from time to time and these are going to become more pronounced. Like I'm not going to get this exactly right. It might have been as recent as last year. No, but it wasn't. No, it might have it was either the pixel nine A or the eight they had just come out the previous December with Gemini Nano , which was their on device model, which they made a version of that went in all their phones at the time, whatever that's either p nixineel it was probably pixel nine or pixel eight series. They don't remember. So the standard pixel, the Pro, the Pro XL , maybe, I guess the fold, whatever they had that year, right? They later this by the way is the same model that went into Chrome that caused a big curfal there a couple months ago, a month ago, whatever that was . This is their own device model, right? But the pixel eight or nine Again, I forget, which comes out a few months later early the next year. And the original announcement is this is not going to have Gemini Nano on it because there's not enough RAM. And again, I'm just going to guess, I don't remember, but I bet it had eight gigabytes of RAM and the other pixels had twelve , and that was the line. Like they were like, it's just not going to work. And people complained and they put the nano on there. It's reduced functionality. It doesn't work as well. Obviously, I think it doesn't do a couple of the features. You get another pixels, but they didn't make it work . And Apple is doing that right now. So when they announced the new series stuff, whatever Apple intelligence stuff, they just announced it WWDC. If you look at the dividing line, there's like this good news thing over on the left where they're like, we're going to support an astonishing range of iPhones in IOS twenty seven . But if you want to do that stuff, you actually have to have last year's pro or better. Like it's not even going to work on the iPhone sixteen, I think was the one from a year ago. Am I right with that? Something like that? sixteen or seventeen. Like if you got to iPhone that they marketed as being designed for AI is not going to run their AI and it's either a year or two later with a timeframe. But this is going to happen everywhere, you know? This is the dividing line between a Windows eleven computer and a co pilot PSPC and soon the NVIDIA thing, right? There's always going to be this kind of back and forth and push, you know, when it comes to these AI things. And a lot of it has to do with RAM . So this is a tough time to be scaling back to gigabytes of RAM. It's just so weird to me . But I blame the AI data centers. Of course. As you should, as you should . You're watching Windows Weekly. That's Paul Therat to my, let's see, to your right, my left and to his right left up down . It's Marsha Brady. No, no, I'm sorry, that's Richard Campbell . What's he doing there? From Run is radio dot com I think we have to get Corey Drow on pretty soon. I didn't realize he's got a new book. Oh, you're going to have Monsoon because it's just like you get I pre ordered his next book , you know, months ago, right? And ification was such a big thing. But I did know because I watched a lot of interviews with him and he just says the same things over and over again. He's a very good public speaker in that way, right? He has, you know, he latch es on to these kind of terms and phrases and things and whatever. That's whatever. It's fine. I'm not complaining, but you hear the same thing again and again . But as he's moving to the next thing, the whole time I'm like , this is not it's not that he's wrong about anything. It's just that he, you know, every once in a while , someone will come up with a term that's perfect , right? And let's give Microsoft a little credit. Co pilot was that term for AI , you know, at the time , especially it made sense. It's like this thing that's gonna work next to you. It's Gidhood Right. Okay, but they, you know, they beat us at that. Did have termed before Microsoft acquired them? No, but it didn't know how to get a independent entity, right? Right. Yeah . Yeah, and then they someone over there obviously , you know, was looking at this and was like, you know, this is a good we should use this term. It's a great. It's a good term. And shitification is like that. It's a good term. It's one of those things where some people offend some people. I guess it's a little crass or childish, however, you know, but I'm sorry. It's plain spoken and it's immediately obvious what it is. And as soon as you understand what it it is, you see everywhere, like it's perfect, right? But now he's looking at the what he thinks of as like the post AI world, which is not really the right way to describe it, but we've shifted into this. We're in the AI hype cycle. It's a bubble . It's going to burst, whatever's going to happen. But as was the case with previous bubbles, there's good and bad things that come out of it . But the term he came up for this is just like it's like how, could you be so wrong on this when you were so right on the last one? We understand it's not going to be hit like you can't you're never going to duplicate it. But the term he uses is reverse centaur . And I am not in line with that term. No , it's terrible. And the reason it's terrible is the same reason that ancientification is so perfect because hey, you have to explain it . It takes a bit. You have to explain what a centaur is mythologically, but in the of automation is where this comes from. And then you reverse it and that's reverse centaur and you're like, No, I understand it. I'm just telling you I hate it. And I hate it. It's because it's just not good. I don't mean well, you know what I mean? I mean, you get like injurification, you're like, yeah, no, I get it. This one you like, you know, you explained it. I still don't get it. It's still terrible. And when I do get it, I don't like it. I don't like it. Yeah. So but I've only just the book came out Tuesday. I had gotten a well actually what happened was I was on YouTube and I saw there was an interview with Corey Dr. That was new. I'm like, oh, interesting. He started talking. He's like, Oh, you're reading new books coming out soon. Okay, great. And then I don't know Apple Newsplus. There was somewhere in some news feed thing and there were a couple of interviews with in print with him. And I was like, oh, we're going to go through a cycle now. I'm just going to get a bunch of new Corey Dr. O videos. And then I checked Amaz on and it came out Tuesday. So I think when I saw this, it was Monday. But so I just started reading it. It's very good. He's a great writer, and he's smart ideas. He's on the right side of history about just about everything. But and he does he breaks down the open AI Microsoft relationship in a way that I found both amusing and gratifying because I've been kind of complaining about this forever. And the way I would have said this at the time was like , I want to call this a pyramid scheme, but a pyramid is too basic of his shape. And but it is that kind of, you know, scam . Yeah. And very early on in the book, he's like, you know , Microsoft and there's a lot of quotes, you know, it's like invests ten billion dollars in open AI after their initial one billion . But the investment is like it's two billion in between those two . Yeah, but they it's like an exchange of things that have no discernible value, right? We're going to give you tokens. We're going to give you ten billion dollars worth of tokens that you will then spend on Azure infrastructure we are going to book that as revenues , even though we're the ones paying for it. Right. And the old AI value is a billion dollar investment and a billion dollars with the sale. I'm not going to get this exactly right, but he compared it to having like an ice cream truck and some kid comes up and he's like, I can't afford the ice cream. And he's like, No problem. Here's the two dollars to buy the ice cream. I'm going to invest in you. And then the kid gives it to him and he s backays, I have the C ouldice cream? He says, Yes, you can. And then he walks away with the ice cream. And it's like, there you go. This is my two dollar investment. That kid now is ice cream. It's like, I'm going to book those revenues. But you gave him the money. Yeah. You know, like it's like it'd still have the investment . But I have the investment. Look at that, kiddie so happy. Anyway, I'm going to, I'll get through it. We'll see what else comes out of this. I will say, you know, one thing that always intrigues me, this was like Neil Stevenson's like this , Corey Dr O. as I read more and more of his stuff, I'm thinking to myself, I wonder like, what does he use? You know, because one of the problems with his injurification book was he never talked about like what we can do as individuals to kind of fix these problems, right? So I'm going to talk a little bit about some of this in the back of the book today. I wrote that DINSURT IF I WINGS LEVEN BOOK, which is my attempt to address that in that space , but he never really did that. And you know, every once in a while, I'll see something where he alludes to let me like a specific tool he uses or app or something, whatever it is. And he does talk a little bit about that in this book because he actually uses AI. You know, he's not you would think he would just be a complete anti AI nut job or something. And he is not. And this is like the internet bubble thing where it's like, look, it's not all of this is terrible. Was it stupid that you could have someone deliver a candy bar to your office at three o'clock in the afternoon in Manhattan and not pay a fee for that? Yes, that was stupid. But that was part of the reason that the bubble burst, you know? And then the good stuff kind of continues on. And so, you know, he doesn't use it to write like I won't use it to write, but there are things you do around writing which you can use it for. And he has a good example of using it for , you know, he wanted to find a specific quote from a podcast, but he couldn't remember the person who said it or the podcast a little on the episode. And so he fed the transcripts to some dozen or so podcasts and in then found it that way. And I was like, yeah, that's okay. That's cool. Grammar spell checking type stuff, you know, whatever. I mean, there were good uses of AI, of course, you know, regardless of what you're doing. So I kind of appreciate that he's even killed on that , but I credit for he's not just criticizing blindly. He's criticizing from real evaluation from Oh he is he has the history and examples to make his points. He's done he's not pulling ideas out of the sky. You know, but he also does tend to do when you do hear about his stack is a lot of offline stuff and open source stuff and he does try and minimize the yeah. And that amount of surveillance he's undergoing. Wherever we're at in the privacy, whatever , you know, thing, like the fact of the matter is we have a couple of choices on mobile that are mainstream and then a couple of really far out there choices . On desktops, you know, the choices that used to be really far out there, like Linux are now much more mainstream and more approachable. They're still not the type of thing I think my wife or brother or mother or whoever would use, but those things are better than they've ever been. I think that's really cool . And so the thing is you have to make this we're making this little deal with the devil every time we do anything. If I get in the car and I want to drive somewhere and I'm using Google Maps, I do that with the understanding that this thing 's tracking me . It's selling that information to advertising. This is part of what it's doing. It's putting me in front of advertising. You see in the map surface itself . We all understand it to some degree. I don't think we all understand how bad it is, but we do we have an understanding it. I think AI is causing the same dynamic , you know, where people are like, at first it was just free all the time maybe or some low monthly cost and now they're like, oh no, we got to actually charge you from just in cost . And yikes. You know, it's like, oh I see this this is a problem. I mean, the interesting part about this is should open AI collapse and that investment becomes worth nothing . They still made ten billion in sales . Also I would just say from Microsoft's perspective they didn't just throw away thirteen billion dollars. They have the assets. I mean , they have, you know, they are building stuff off of that today. They're busy building their own models. They've learned from open AI. Yep. They're so it's dependence on open AI is largely, I think, gone at this point . Well, even if it isn't, I mean if OpenAI just closed up shop, I mean, they still have the models. You know, they could, you know, at that point, I suppose they could do what they wanted with them. Maybe. I don't know, but what they would do is get a whole lot of comp ute back . Right, right . Which by the way, they spent two years doing anyway, right? Like through various re well and it seems pretty obvious to me that M Dash is just trained off of Claude Mythos too. So like Microsoft's done a good job of getting their own versions of everything Welsh was trained the way so they've not said eccentric. They've not said that. What they have said is that maybe M Dash is basically an orchestrator that works against multiple models. There's no doubt that Fable or Methodist or whatever is the center of it. I mean, there's no doubt. there's also no doubt that they're working on their own models. And look, in the same way, look we just talked about this . So as long as that API from MDash that's calling Mythos has an American passport , it should be fine, right? Your understanding of technology astonishes me. Yes, the answer is yes . No, but I mean like as models improve because of the nature of this tool, it's going to evolve to work with whatever the better tools are at the time. So I think a big part of their initiative to have their own foundation models will include having models that are for security . Like when I was talking about like the most recent one was Apple did WWDC. There's an update to X code that's in beta now you can install. It has an integrated AI functionality. It's not just a sideb ar. You can plug in your own AI if you want. You can build an app with it, right? And it works really well. And part of the reason it works really well is the same reason that what Microsoft announced at build and what Google announced at Google IO, same exact ide a, which is we have a model that's specifically for coding , but we're also using the terminology difference, but it's a it's a way to ground it in only the document ation for that language and or framework . And you don't get the mistakes, like I used to see like late last year when I tried to use Anthropic to do Windows App SDK programming, it kept making mistakes. Remember when I ran out of my free allotment in November and it was like, No, you ran out of my free allotment. Like all you did was make mistakes and then tell me I had no more space left . It was because C sharp is the language. It's common, Zam's common, but Windows app SDK and WPF look a lot alike . And so when you're just blasting out to the web looking for answers to questions, you're like, Oh yeah, you just use this control and you're like, No, you don't. That does not exist in the WebSAP esticate. It's making that mistake. So when you ground it in the actual documentation , it works really, really well. And I think that that's kind of the model they'll follow for M Dash and for whatever security models , right? Same kind of thing. He says confidently like he knows anything about anything . Yeah . Anyway , so lastly that Great Bloomberg graphic talking, how would Media, you know, took the page off from Microsoft and doing the same thing. Only they're picking little AI startups investing in them who then immediately turned that money into orders for NBIA chips when if and when they ever take delivery of them, which is a separate issue I is the word term circle jerk to cross I mean this whole thing this is this reminds me of two thousand and during at the towards the end of the Dog Comboom. Like it was the same thing. The companies with the money were investing in the companies to make purchases from those companies. Yeah. Well, and to the point, I think it was Joe Esposito when the discord was talking about consolidation and companies disappearing . Not every day, but there was an announcement Qualcomm is buying some small startup NVIDIA's buying startups, Apples buying strips. They're a little more secret about it, but they do . They're not against big acquisitions. They just haven't done any. Microsoft obviously has been very aggressive in this space . Google's doing their virus at giving all their executives to other companies, but they are also, I think, are buying companies here and there as well. I mean, this is going to this is what the rich get richer. I mean , if you're lucky as a company and your goal is to kind of cash out and be successful, this is not a bad outcome. If you're an end user and you want to have variety and choice and open and closed alternatives, et cetera, et cetera , this could be a dark time, we'll see. But I do think the whole I think the one thing saving grace for all this AI stuff is that we'll always have open options. The local stuff's only going to get better. You know, Leo's living on the bleeding edge of this right now . And it's going to go from being a kind of weird , esoteric thing that almost no one does to just being very normal and you know, typical I think as it becomes better and simpler. Well, you know, you to the preliminary area on this about how workflows largely haven't changed around software. Why do we need new OS? Workflows are in the process of changing right now substantially right . I mean one of the little kind of asterisks is to my conversation earlier about what is the line between eleven and twelve when it comes to Windows is that I actually said it too, they have released the Aegenic capabilities into Windows already , you the know first, version of it, the thing that allows agents to appear on the task bar as buttons that look like apps. And you interact with them as you do with apps, and you can bring up a menu off of that button and then see the status of things or it can not ify you with a standard toast notification that we get in Windows when it needs your feedback or wants to tell you that it's done with something or whatever it might be. So this is, you know, when you're hammer kind of a scenario like you, you know, we're going to make AI look like a nail , you know, in Windows Apple's doing the same thing on its platforms, Google's doing the same thing on its platforms just to meet the, you know, the whatever the user experience is. So that's kind of weird though because why would they put that in Windows eleven if that's going to be twelve , you know? And it's not in Windows eleven in a beta or something. It's like it's actually shipping. It's in there. It's not doing anything. It's like a sleeper cell on your computer, you know, waiting to screw everything up . But it is an eleven. And that makes me wonder because it seemed like the local AI stuff with MPUs might have made sense for a twelve , just co pilot itself and all the AI capabilities might have made sense as twelve . And now I'm thinking they were going to have a window to do an AI edition and call it twelve. It was over a year ago . Yeah . Now as the market clearly evolved and we see the change in shape and we know it's going to be different than this, by the time you get this thing out the door, you're going to be wildly wrong. Yeah, so you do and you don't have any hardware. Yeah, you just triggered an idea . Way back to the last break, why are we making a new version of Windows? Because we need to sell new PCs. Well, you can't sell new PCs . Right now, right, right, right . Yeah, I mean, well , yeah, we're going to hear cashing on the win eleven wave, right? Like the force to win eleven by retiring ten last year did kick off some sales before the tariffs and all the stupid showed up and now it's on a rebellion devices now and yeah you get, you know So you know that mission accomplished you can take some time now to kind of answer my own question and this is triggered by something you just said they did add the code for agenic, whatever interfaces in Windows eleven is there . The dividing line, though, maybe is not agents, because we're going to have the thing that triggered last week's conversation about hybrid AI and how nuanced it was about agents. It was actually it was the agent sessions of Bill that kind of put this into my brain, which is you will have cloud based agents in Windows eleven broadly, but maybe the ones that are local slash hybrid that are more capable will be twelve , right? That you that maybe it is the two hundred and fifty six gigs of RAM , you know, NVIDIA or whatever next gen advanced hardware from whatever company , it's not happening tomorrow. This is a slower boil, maybe it's not mainstream till next year, the year after, we don't know. But maybe that, you know, maybe that really maybe that is it. You know, I'm always looking always like I want to I want to answer a question no one has ever asked or whatever, but I'm trying to figure, you know, and we'll five years now we' bell like what, happened to twelve? Yeah. No, I think the whole thing's derailed until the hardware crisis ends. It makes no sense to spend that much money putting out a version. And I'm talking about the marketing dollars until there's stuff for people to buy Yeah. Who wants to make an upgrade version of an OS? That's not beneficial for the companies . Yeah, I mean, there's so many market forces and just changes that have occurred. You know, yeah, the final one here is it might be the hole to which a better OS and I'm not really taking oper at,ors but a better approach to AI gets inserted and they miss this opportunity entirely. Like I'm kind of going to delight in that point. You dumped so much money of this. You overinflated the market, blew up the entire supply pipeline , and then miss the window for the right way to do this. So this is an interesting risk here that , you know, we look we live in a world we're concerned with PCs here, I am, you know, but PCs are the smallest platform in this ecosystem now of personal computing in many ways. And it's certainly the least engaged part of it, right? Meaning we're not sitting here in an app store in windows looking for new apps every day. You're like, well, a lot of people still don't have phones, right? I gotta tell you, I know a lot of devs fully in the engentic mode that are doing most of the development by negotiating with agents over their phone. I was gonna say going to use the phone anymore. I wasn't sure if it's going to use the word phone in there, but that's the important part of it, I think, because there's always going to be that like half step to the future you have to have, right? Which is the excuse me, the computer use stuff that you can use remotely from your phone. . Yeah So you have a Mac or a PC now in Linux, I'm sure where it's on somewhere into your home or whatever, but you can from your phone because you're in, you know, integrating with it, whether it's a separate app or the same app, you know, like I think cloud uses the same app and maybe reversing this, I don't know like OpenA I think has different apps. I don't remember but it doesn't matter . You know, you can be out in the world and you have an idea and you're like, oh , and you have that conversation thing. And this is again, this is something we actually did talk about not in this context exactly, but a month two months ago , where I think it was Leo was saying that you know, he and a lot of developers are turning to a mode where they're conversing with a chatbot essentially, not typing code into an editor and having that thing be in the side . And that's what this is, right? Except for whatever it is. You still got the local aspect of this, but now it's going to be a headless machine possibly in your home stuff full of GPUs . Yep . You know, it's not going to be your workstation anymore. We're splitting the load. Your interface is the thing with you wherever you go . I'm already but it's not doing any of the products. Promoting services into my fifty eighty do work. And I'm not even touching that machine. I can only tell it's busy because the fans are humming. Well, it's so great that Microsoft spent the past fifteen years ignoring and nerfing the remote desktop stuff in Windows. But you know what? Whatever. I'm sure we'll get started. It's all API calls these days, dude. Right? It's all these running crypto's and servers The only part of open AI that might survive this whole thing is the bloody API because everybody uses it . Yeah. This is the picture I just saw on Reddit. Look when Lead Engineer just got rid of his keyboard. There is no keyboard. He's sitting there talking into a microphone . And of course, he's vibe coding. He's doing he's doing it all with AM. I'm sorry, but I think it wasn't nobody has I think it's a joke obviously, especially it would be a headset my prosper max. He's like a like you ever see like a you're watching like a like a hard rock concert the guy puts the guitar behind his head and he's like playing like a solo that's how I type my keyboard. Now I' nowm just like yeah I don't, need the keyboard that much but he needed it with his tongue yeah stupid . Anyway so look I hope it's obvious to anyone listening or watching this that you know, we're, we just questions like we don't we don't have answers, you know, we have pints, we have ideas . We're kind of navigating this as a happy familiar patterns . Yeah. I mean, we can look to the past and maybe that gives us some answer or some version of an answer, you know, this what else can you do? But yeah, I don't know, I don't I don't I this I'm still distruck by how quickly this improves and how you know you got to, I don't know, you have to be open to doing things differently, I guess. It's interesting this is not an important story, but you know, Google last fall when they announced the Pixel ten series announced this Google Home speaker that would replace their Nest speakers . It's arriving tomorrow for the first people who bought it . The first reviews are out . This thing is about somewhere right between a Nest Mini and a Nest Audio, which was that one they had for seven or eight years and never improved once. I don't know why anyone would buy this thing, frankly , unless you just need a thing in your house to talk to when you're a Gemini ecosystem person, right? Because if you'll have it on your phone, you'll have it on your watch I'm not sure you need another place to have a matter hub that's a microphone or something, but it would do that. I can assure you the sound quality is not going to blow anybody away. And I'd love to know why Apple and Google both don't make home theater setups where you can have five speakers or something and have it be some awesome dobly atmosph thing, but both of them just do stereo pairs, and then some version of AirPlay Google Cast where they're just playing the same thing, but they're not, you know, working in concert, right? I don't quite get that If you care about audio quality, you're not buying the Apple or Google products. You know what I mean? You're buying a whatever it is, a Sonos, Edifier . There's a lot of third party stuff now if you want an actual smart speaker, I guess it's out there. But this is the Gemini thing. And the thing that's interesting about this to me is and I bought one, I'm going to review it and look at it just to find out what's going on here. And because I hate money . But this is the difference between Google Assistant and Gemini, right? Writ large. Just like if anyone's been using like IOS, especially twenty seven beta or iPad O S Mac OS I'm probably going to write about this soon, but like, you know, Siri, which I hesitate, shouldn't have said it loud, but is , you know, the sad stepchild that everyone was embarrassed by for the past fifteen years, I'd say it's pretty good now. Like you know, that's an interesting thing . Yeah, it's often by mistake, you know, that's how Seri works. But I also yeah, because we were yeah, exactly. It comes up all the time, but we were away last week and I used it to find things to do a couple of times. I did it just to, you know, you do the standard hey, I'm going to this place for this amount of time. Can you give me the top, you know, whatever there's ten sites, the top, you know, best places for local food, blah, blah, blah, whatever. And you know, these things, if you've ever done this, and I think everyone kind of has, you get like a nice report and it's really nice looking and whatever. And it did that. Like it's , you know, it's writes very confidently and happily. It's just sometimes wildly wrong . Well the stuff I've done has been fine. I would say my interactions with Siri prior to this were universally terrible and were always some version of it coming on when I didn't want it to, or it telling me it couldn't understand anything I wanted it to do. It was one of the two, pretty much. I mean, I didn't use it to set a timer or tell me a joke or any of the nonsense people do with their little pringle can things, but I did , you know, I look, I use an Apple device. You're going to interact with this thing unless you do everything you can to turn it off . And I can tell you like on a Mac, I turn this thing off all the time . But the version in whatever twenty seven , this is pretty good . So that might surprise some people, I think. And then we could just do an Adobe AI of the release show stand alone if we wanted to. But this and one's a little confusing, but I think people understand that Adobe has this creative cloud suite of applications. They have the big hitters like Photoshop Premiere, etc , Illustrator, whatever else they have They have Firefly AI, which if you're a creator is super important because this is built on the content that they own and they indemnify you that this is not going to be a stolen idea like this is we own not the IP but the content I said, you know, basically it's built on the right now what they have and they're going to be and they're going to hold you protected if anything weird happens right which is, you know, that's and what that's what those guys want and you know you pay them a lot of money for this right, and it's whatever, that's great. It's fine. But it's weird. They don't they capitalize this like a brand, but they now have this thing they've been talking about for a while, which is a creative agent that works and again, it should be like Capital C, you know, I don't know why it isn't, but it's a creative agent that works across all these products I just mentioned and others Firefly and Photoshop, et cetera . And it's a way to do a gen etic workflows either in the app you're using. So if you're like a Photoshop guy, you're going to be in Photoshop and using it for that, where you have these natural language conversations to get it to do things , or using it from outside those apps, and it is orchestrating which capabilities and which apps to use to get the thing done that you asked it to do, right? Which can be multi step workflows that are all going off in different directions and working side by side, et cetera. So, you know, my own little space, I kind of I kind of focus on, you know, Windows productivity. It's not so much creator, but this is if you think about it, the stuff we've seen from Anthropic, Microsoft Open AI, actually in their own sphere, Apple too, for whatever that's worth , adding these capabilities to their apps, anthropic open AI, adding them to Microsoft's apps, right? Google's doing it for Google S ight. But they're doing it for theirs. And their apps are, you know, their premiere, Photoshop, Illustrator, or whatever they have, in design, et cetera. So it's not my space, but if I was a creator , I would pay attention to this. Like this, it's rather astonishing . They're moving very quickly and seem to be , you know, they don't seem to have they've had some stumbles, but they don't seem to have had , you know this major problems like Google has run into, for example, where they have to pull a model or pull a capability from a model because it's creating these crazy racist images or whatever it is. Like they don't seem to have ever suffered from that kind of thing. And you know, this is we can complain about how much this stuff costs, which I would, or whatever it is. But if you trust this company, pay them, you want, you know, this is, I don't know, it's kind of amazing. So there's a lot going on there. This episode is brought to you by Accenture. When your advertising operations fall out of sync , everything else follows. Spotify and Accenture are working together to reinvent the rhythm of ad sales, using automation, analytics , and smarter workflows to simplify campaign delivery and access better data across the business. The result? Less time spent on operations, more time connecting brands with the moments and fandoms that matter most. Learn more at Accenture dot com slash spotify . Okay , there's a lot going on here too, ladies and gentlemen, you are watching the Fabulous Windows Weekly. That's Paul Th rot . That's Richard Campbell . And we are glad you're here and you've been very patient . So I think you deserve I guess this is the kind of the lollipop at the end of the show. It take to get to the middle of the pop? Who's at Tootsie roll now? Is that what is that what you decided? Yeah, get ready for the center because here comes the Xbox segment It's like how many lectures like one two and then he bite it and said three. The owl, if I remember? No, it's the child. Yeah, it's the owl. So Xbox, which we must now yell because it's all caps and gaming a couple things going on. One of the things that isn't going on, although I sort of got I'm like pins and needles almost with this. I keep expecting any second there to be some news or whatever. So it's june twenty fourth, as we record this, june thirtieth, less than a week away is the end of Microsoft fiscal year. There is a day or some number of weeks of reckoning coming. We all know this. They've been pretty clear. It's coming, you know, they just haven't said exactly what it is. So there hasn't been any movement on that. I'll just put that there. I was, you know, I mentioned the asspaul thing I do on Friday. Somebody asked me last Friday about this and said, you know , given that Microsoft is probably going to let a lot of people go, get rid of some studios, definitely cancel some games, is there some scenario where one of their competitors like Sony or Tensent or whatever could buy any combination of those things, like or some of them or whatever it is. And the answer to that is like, yeah, of course. I mean I think one of the best outcomes here given that this has to happen in a sense. In other words, or I should say, given that this will happen , is that you don't just these things don't have to just disappear, right? It would be great if some other company and there are companies I didn't mention, you know, that are out in the world like EA or Nintendo or whatever the whatever companies are out there making money or smaller publishers that may be , you know, another form of consolidation would be smaller companies that kind of band together to make , you know, a game studio that has instead of two or three games has nine or ten games or something. I mean, there's different games. Yeah, I mean, the pattern for many years has been when you want to make an original game, you take your team out of the big company, whatever it may be. You set up a little studio, typically on the back of the money you already made from the last time you did this , you crank out your game, and if it's a hit, the big guys come and buy you back again . I have friends who've done that like three times . Yes . Those people probably refer to themselves as serial entrepreneurs, which is one of my least favorite phrases of all time, but God bless them because they're probably rich. You mean like Crunch and Tony the Tiger? I don't know I thought we were going to say Captain Crunch and Tony Tenill. And I was like, yeah, the captain . It is the Captain and Tina. The other Captain and Tinel. They're just game devs, you know, and they like making games and they do their two year vest at EA or wherever they may be and at the end of that they sort of look around and go what do I want to make and if they can make it in the shop they'll make it there and they usually can't so they leave again . I mean this ent,ire market in many ways started when some programmers from Atari were not getting credit for being the people who made whatever games were like, Sure you were leaving and they created activision, right? Right. And the bigger part of this is that you just don't need that big of an arg to make a lot of games these days . You know, you can do pretty well with smaller games. The indie market's doing just fine, even if the tier ones yeah Yeah. Yep, and you know, again, not to keep being this to death, but I really do feel like AI is going to, you know, AI is a democratizer , like in the same way that you can with an iPhone or cheap equipment make a, movie essentially, right? You don't have to be in, you know, no one's going to see it per se, but you do have ways to get it out of the world. You're already doing frame filling, it's just going to go further. Yeah, I mean, AI's going to help these people a lot. And I know there's a weird thing with this AI and gaming. I'll never understand this. Like this is one of the most obvious places where AI should be used in the operation of gaming. I also know whole studios that are like AI free And those guys will be that's the indie route. That's those are going to be the artisanal handcrafted , you know, some of them will be like eight bit graphics and we rendered every pixel, you know, by hand electron with a promium tweezers up on the desk, you know? Yep. Yep. They had the giant eye, you know, the eyepiece thing looking at , you know Look, that's there's nothing wrong with that. But but in the same vein there's a between that game and the latest Call of Duty, which is some multi , you know, billion dollar extravaganza, there's a big area. You know, there's and you know, for people that kind of want to level up as game makers , so to speak , you know, AI can be a can help democratize that. I think it's I still think this is going to be good. So I don't I don't think there will be good outcomes for everything, you know, that Microsoft's getting rid of , you know, we should be honest about that or realistic or however you want to say that. But I do have a hope that, you know, they showed off that Chinua game, right? It was clearly it's in a good place, it seems. I mean, I could be wrong about that , but it would be, you know, it'd be horrible for that just to disappear, you know, and I hope it doesn't. So we'll see. But they haven't said a thing yet, not yet . You know , like the magician that is trying to take your eyes away from where the magic is happening, Microsoft has got a lot of bad news going on in the Xbox space . And so sometimes you'll see these announcements that are clearly like , look over here, not everything is terrible , you know ? There was an I think it was people no entertainment Weekly. You know, that publication I subscribe to and know really well. Is this still around even? I know please someday we'll talk about what Newsweek has become and dear God what has happened. But I don't know anything about this publication, but I guess they spoke with people the atx Xbo and they were told that Xbox as an organization has over twenty franchises that have made a billion dollars lifetime and that they want to get those things that IP out into the world in the form of movies and TV shows, which duh . And they have over a dozen movies and TV shows in various stages of development or playing with treatments, right? Like one hundred percent let's be clear, you know, fallout and Minecraft are the exception . Most video game movies are terrible . So as a huge fan of the rock and of the Doom games, I have to disagree. No, you're no . So I mean, I'm saying nothing bad about the rock, great movie in its horror, right? Look, I'm telling you is it had the first person view for a few minutes and I was like, that's amazing. You know, the of Last Us TV series is very good. You mentioned follow up. What was the other one you said? Minecraft. Minecraft. Minecraft movie. Minecraft. Yeah, I mean you could have you been too much the mine? No, I'm not going to do that. But Nintendo has you need to go to a Saturday Matinee of the Minecraft. The woman new rocky , there are not enough drugs and alcohol in the world for me to ever get to see this thing. You come out the other side of that , you'll feel high. It's nutty. You're saying don't see it though in your home privacy room. You need to know you're not there to watch the movie so you're there to watch the audience. I didn't know why that was the place in terms of the kids. I don't know if you've ever made this kind of deal with like you know, if you're married we're all married. So we have these wives and their wives have different interests maybe than these wives. Yes. And well, you know, you know, you make compliments, right? So one of the like when we were younger and I mean like literally late nineteen eighties young , my wife wanted me to see Ghost movie with my response. Okay, so this is Patrick Switzer. My response to that was they will never make enough Friday and thirteenth movies for me to ever see that movie . And I, you know, and I feel like Minecraft is there for me to look, I like Minecraft. Jack Black, could would push him off a cliff if I met him but and I actually have met him so actually but it's beside the point. I just couldn't do it. Anyway, look, video game adaptations are terrible, but terrible the ones you cited have and also the last of us have , you're right. Last of us also are really good good pretty. Did you see Fallout was great? Yeah, Fallout's, I think might be the best one of all. Yeah , for me anyway. There are other forms of media that make their way into this world, like, you know, the Walking Dead TV series started as a series of graphic novels, for example, which are actually very good and a little different from the seven started out as a novel then a movie and then a game franchise. There you go. Yeah, so look, there's no doubt that Microsoft has a lot of good IP that would and look, I've been talking about this, you know, how is there not a series of call of duty games? You know how I can imagine Halo. Halo was a TV series I only saw bits of it. It just kind of didn't interest me that much. I feel like it just kind of went nowhere. I believe there were two seasons and it just kind of came and went, I don't remember, but they do have some specifics in here. The Game Sea of Thieves, right , which is not an indie title exactly, but kind of a lower, you know, like low end, you know, not a big game, AA title, right? It was big They did a great job popularizing it. They put it on multiple platforms, they kept supporting it with new content . That is going to be adapted into a live action movie. You can believe that. Hopefully with Gina Davis. , there's a Minecraft animated series in development at Netflix , there is a live action Wolfenstein show at Amazon, which totally makes sense because Amazon's where everything good goes to die. And Fallout Shelter is a reality competition show currently being filmed with, you know, based on fallout sort of, right? I assume they're not actually going to irradiate anybody, but you know, whatever There could be a new halo, something . I don't know if it means a movie or TV show. They haven't really known they're being a little vague on some of this stuff. But I think we can all agree that the one Microsoft property we're waiting to see turn into a movie or TV show is Candy Crush . Or maybe clippy, one of the two , you know, but I don't know, we'll see what happens. But this makes sense to me, right? By the way, Nintendo has had one year where their finances were dramatically improved late in the original Switch life cycle from the first Mario movie, not the first one. I mean, the first recent one obviously had did they have a Mario? Yeah, they had a Mario movie a long time ago, right? John Fedum when in the modern era , there have been two now . Those movies have both done fantastically well, I guess, like Minecraft and have lifted those companies and this could help Microsoft Xbox, right? I mean, why wouldn't you do this? This makes sense. Why wouldn't you try to be? Will Hollywood push back when it's just a bad idea? Yep One thing we've never talked about, but this way my brain works is when Microsoft was buying Activision Blizzard, trying to , obviously, everyone was like call of duty, but Microsoft kept making the point, well, hold on a second, yes, call of duty, but also mobile. Like we just don't have a good position in mobile. You couldn't point to a single thing they've done in mobile since they required activation blizzards. I don't know what's going on. Like they've just let that sit there. I don't know what they're doing. I 've long felt that a lot of their big game franchises should come to mobile. Well, in all of that argument in the Blizzard Activision about we need a mobile story . And it's just amounted to nothing . It's literally, as far as I can tell amounted to nothing, I can't think of anything they've done. I mean, other than layoffs , what have you done? Right. The only time, right? The only time King ever comes up, yeah, I don't know. I don't know what they're doing there. Nothing. That's what it seems like to me. Yeah . So I don't know. The Xbox Insider program seems to have changed recently . And I don't know if it's tied to the new leadership, if it's tied to the kind of underlying need like we have in Windows to kind of improve the platform or something. But it seems like there have been a lot of insider updates lately and not always big ones, you know ? Microsoft obviously, well maybe not obviously, but Microsoft does do like what they used to call a dashboard update, but just like a Xbox system update every month, they for a while they were kind of commingling these updates across console Windows mobile, right? You know, different updates in each side. These days they're focus ing a lot on the console stuff, right? And so there one just went out today. This is Xbox Insiders. There's changes coming to gamer tags, game hub, wish list and probably some other things. I didn't have a chance to look at this very big very much, but it just happened. But so this is basically these are just features that are going to come later in this year. Well be treadwater praying to God that there is an ex console and that doesn't cost two thousand dollars you know and we'll see what happens but seems very unlikely but this is a great time to delay shipping a console . It really is, yeah. Yeah . You have every excuse in the world , you know. Yeah I'm going to jump ahead to one thing because of that. This is fascinating to me. So we've talked a lot about GTA six, right? This thing was delayed. It was supposed to come out, I think originally last year early this year. Yeah, it was twenty twenty five. Yeah, it's been a while. Yeah . It is coming out in November . It is going to cost seventy nine dollars ninety nine cents, which is fantastic. Obviously one hundred dollars man could eat order tomorrow. This is exciting. If you want to spend one hundred bucks, you can. There's a version that costs one hundred bucks. So you can do that. Here's what's interesting about this . And the first half of this make perfect sense, you know, it's like it's only going to run on mod like current generation consoles, right? There's not a version for Xbox one or PS four. It's going to run on the series X and S and the PlayStation five. You're like, great. What about the PC ? That's coming out in a year . So this thing's going to it's not coming out in November, it's not coming out in February . It's going to come out the following fall. The PC version of this game is not shipping So in a world in which there are component crisis happening, video games shutting down publishers shutting down layoffs, you're going to ship a game more expensive than most only on the two latest versions of consoles which aren't really selling that I mean, PlayStation is a lot better than Xbox, but still and that should go to market plan. It's like okay. I mean on the other hand they're still selling copies of GTA five. I know. Like I know. The release date just isn't that important . There's no way to leg it is in a distance. I mean you got to get it out for one thing, right? You gotta get something out. You got to get something out and it better work , although you know, I know. Cyberpunk was a disaster on its release and still made a pile of money. Yeah, but Cyberpunk also wasn't like a follow up to one of the best selling games of all time that everyone was eagerly waiting for. You know, like this could be a Duke Nukem forever. And I'm trying to think what's an example of something that actually came out was awesome even though we waited forever for it. I can't think of anything actually, but there must be something . We'll see. I mean, there's no way this thing surpasses GTA five. He says confidently he might be AI , but I just don't see won't know if it GTA five was in GTA five when it was released. It became GTA five after a decade . Right? GTA six, you're not going to know how big a hit it is for a long time. Yeah, we're going to one day we'll be talking about how it found its legs on some next gen thing we don't even know about yet. Yeah. And maybe that's true, I don't know, but we'll see I don't know I wonder the vision pro was what made GT. Wouldn't that be ironic ? Sarah excuse me, this show's not on Apple TV plus. I don't know why you just said that I feel like this came up before, but I had heard that I guess activism or whatever, it was making remakes or remasters of Call of Duty Block Ops one and two, which is very exciting to me . But now they've revealed that those games are in fact coming to modern PS consoles being PS five thing. And the indication is that these are just ports. Like they're not actually doing anything to make them work particularly good to look better or anything like that. So I was kind of hoping on PC, especially I could buy like a modern version of those games with better graphics. You know , in the way that like, you know, Valve has done this with like the half life games or you could get ack like Bl Mesa for , you know, for half life two , you know, where you can make the thing that came out in this case, you know, what ten years ago ish, you know, whatever that was maybe longer and have it look awesome on like a four K stream with HDR and whatever sound system you have. So I don't it doesn't seem like that's happening. That's too bad . GTA yeah. And then dot speaking of Duke Nug um forever. Valve steam or valve yeah, valve announced that the steam machine is coming June, what's the day twenty nine, I think it's coming this month, late this month, starting price is ten forty nine . This is for a six, I guess, I assume sixteen gig machine with a five hundred twelve SSD Like I said, three people via text and our WhatsApp and then someone else via email. But it's interesting to me that people have been reading and then actually Raphael also was talking to me about this. I would say not universally because Rafael's like, I don't care how much this cost I'm buying this thing immediately almost universally people are like, this is really expensive. And yeah, I mean, it is, but then again , you know , when you look at that eight gig surface laptop that starts at nine hundred forty nine, which is pointless or a MacBook Neo, which is only six hundred fifty or five of the price six, seven hundred bucks, depending on the configuration, which I think is mostly pointless unless it's just a secondary device you barely use. It's kind of in there, you know? I mean we know there's a component crisis. We know this company doesn't have favorable pricing anywhere and we know that Newell doesn't care. It's not important to him at all. Well, this is going to be an interesting test of the fan base and the market for this thing, the resilience they may or may not have in the face of what's going on in the world right now . The one thing for me though, like I get it. I look at this thing and I'm like, I really, I like it, I like the whole idea of it. But I also am very much against anything that has to sit in one room in one house with one TV or whatever screen . And that's the only place you can use it. And one of the neat things about moving to the PC for gaming is that I can game anywhere, you know ? And I can, you know, I went to Nashville last week. I played Colle Duty a couple times, you know, on a really nice laptop from someone else's like an Airbnb type there or VRBO, whatever it was . I you know, I don't it doesn't bother me that they're doing this. I'm a little surprised this isn't being accompanied by a steam deck revision with more powerful innards and better screen etcetera. So I wonder if there is, but a same problem with the hardware situation worse . Right. So I don't know. Anything you haven't promised in hardware right now, you should push back. Just kiss your way. Yeah. Duck, don't don't start talking about . Yeah, exactly. I agree. But that's face it. Like they're probably selling this gear for exactly costs . Oh, I should job is just to sell casine games. So by the way, though, the so five tw hundredelve , I'm sorry, the base configuration , this does not include a controller. So nobody's going to do this. You're going to spend thirteen hundred and load it up. Like why would you do anything else? You into the dealership situation. But look, when phone companies started getting rid of the power brick, you know, the argument was well, you know, everyone has a bunch of these, but this is just digital e waste, like whatever . And then, you know, sometimes you don't get a cable, you know, they got rid of headphone jacks, however , whatever you want to compare this to, I'm not sure everyone has a controller, you know, that would work out this or like controllers work. A Xbox controller work. Yeah, I think an Xbox entice controller would work. You don't need to spend a hundred dollars. I suspect others too. Yeah, no, you don't need the thing that they have, but you know, it's a it's a little piece, it's Linux, right? I mean it's just work, but look, I don't know about you guys. Brad seemed confused by this, but I go through , I think I ruin a controller, an Xbox controller at least twice a year , meaning by just ape forcing it with my hands or because I'm clumsy and I throw it on the ground by mistake or it hits the whatever it does like one of the mistakes mistake yeah I said what I said ashes here. The point is there a' qusality control iss ue here and it's not my fault so but I mean like a steam controller or whatever they're calling it throw that to the ground. No it's a hundred bucks. You want to be like delicate, which is by the way so the first elite controller, I got one of those. Super excited about this thing. That one was fun because when you dropped it by mistake, like I would, it would explode like a Lego factory into a million little pieces . And it's like like what the fuck you could put them. You could put them you collect them all you collect all the pieces, you put them back the wrong way, maybe whatever. And then but I still ended up breaking the damn stick and it's like this thing was one hundred fifty bucks probably at the time. I was like, I'm never buying an expensive controll er again, but wise . Yeah, I just I'm like the gorilla jumping on the Samsung luggage in the ad or whatever back in the seventies . Controller network . Yeah . Stupid Xbox. Like maybe you weren't standing on it, you know? Like what are you doing? It's We're gonna take a little pause , but guess what? The back of the book is just around the corner in moments, Paul will tell you how to save one hundred dollars a month. And I know you want to stay tuned for that. But meanwhile , let me tell you a little bit about how you can spend ten dollars a month and get a superb experience by joining Club Twit . You still net ninety dollars, okay? So it's still a good deal. Club Twit gives you ad free versions of all the shows. We have lots of excitement going on in our Club Twitter discord where all the smart people hang out and special programming that you only get if you're a club member coming up Friday actually. It's the return of the crazy man cod ing horrors Jeff Atwood . We will it's it's got a great programmer joke name off by one is Friday at two PM Pacific , five PM Eastern the june twenty sixth. That's going to be a lot of fun. I hope you'll tune in for that. Our AI 's group is on july third at two PM Pacific . We also record shows like IOS today and home theater geeks this week in space in the club, Mike is crafting corner , photo time with Chris Mark . Mike is doing a media club. We have a Stacy's book club. We're also doing a media club. We just did the fifth element. We will be doing, well, we're voting on what the next media club thing will be . I have my faves, but you get to vote if you're in the club. You also there's some other benefits. You also get because they're ad free , the club Twit versions of all the shows, including this one have chapter markers so you can jump around , which is really handy . We have to we can't do that with the shows that are not ad free because some of the ads are inserted after we produce the show and they are variable length. So we don't know exactly where the chapters would be once that ad hits. So we can't do a good chapter markers, but if you're a Club member, that's a nice benefit. If you want chapter markers, join the club and do the ad free feed. You'll get a special link just for you when you join . Most of all, you get the good feeling in your heart that you're supporting independent journalism, high quality independent journalism with no we're not owned by a big company. That's why we need to have a club, frankly And I'm pretty proud of what we do. So you should support independent journalism. You should support Paul's website throughout. com and any blog or podcast that you really appreciate. I think it's important to support it . And I hope you will include us in that list twit tv slash club twit. And thank you in advance. Now, ladies and gentlemen , boys and girls, children of all ages . It's time. It is the back of the book, beginning with Paul's tip of the week, Paul . So I think it was back in May . Yeah, we were still in Mexico and and I got an email from Netflix about a price increase and I was like, yeah, I'm done. I think I'm done. And part of it was just the irritation of net flix continually bothering me because I go back and forth from Mexico to the United States, right? So I'll be there and it's like, it looks like you're not home. Like I am home. It looks like you're not home. And then my Netflix subscription, which was probably fourteen dollars ninety nine cents at one point and is now twenty seven dollars ninety nine cents, I think . They're being very aggressive about not allowing my kids who do not live in the house , but in at least one case is financially dependent on me from using it as well. And what they would like to do is charge me another ten dollars per month for each one of those kids to use this service . So I was like, you know what? I No think I,'m going to be done. So I didn't want to do anything in kind of a knee jerk way. We knew we were going to see the kids like we did last week in Tennessee. So I figured I kind of prepped them for this. I want you guys to think about these the services you use primarily entertainment, but also things that are productivity related like Microsoft three hundred and sixty five, Google, you know, whatever it might be . And I want to go through this list and kind of talk to you about it and see if we can't save some money because I just I'm just tired of this, you know , and I do think there's, you know, Leo was just talking about Club Twit, which was a good example of not big tech, you know, small company making content that people like and that's a good thing to pay for it. But ask you if you're home, notice . Yeah, you're not like, Oh, I know you're in Mexico. You owe us another three cents or something. It's like, what are you doing? You know, like so there's like a it depends. You know, there's all these different strategies. We've all had some of the same ideas. Like maybe I'll use Netflix this month and then kill it and go to Hulu and then kill that and go to whatever you know HBO Max or whatever. That's one thing may,be maybe you know we'll see. But it was interesting stepping through this part of the problem is like where we are in life because my kids are sort of adults, you know, in one case is more than the other, I guess. But my son lives with friends and they share certain things and they do certain things . And so like he's not using my Netflix account anymore. No one is actually. But anyway, but that's beside the point. But at the time we still had this. And you know , anyway, we weren't on the list. It was interesting to me what people felt strongly about. Like, if you just do it alphabetically, this is not the way it came out of my mouth, but like the first one is, I believe, is Amazon Prime and my son's like, please do dare God did not get r Aidm ofazon Prime. And this is like one this is like the one example of a service that they can use even though they're not in the same house , which is astonishing. You have to think they're going to that's interesting. I think they're going to put it. They're absolutely going to put a stop to that. But right now that works fine . We go to Mexico, there's an Amazon prime in Mexico as well. It's actually a separate account. You can use the same email address. And let me tell you, that was a huge mistake on my part. It's super confusing. It's incredibly cheap in Mexico. It's something like four dollars a month. And the only reason I never thought to pay for it there, but I paid for it because I was I think I bought a monitor for the computer and I saved like almost fifty dollars by buying it that way. And it was like, this is going to pay for the whole year, almost. Like, of course, I'm going to do it, you know, so it's cheap, why not? In the United States, I want to say it's one hundred thirty nine hundred forty bucks . I do wonder though if everything' delre thingsivered fast, right? I mean, does it much of a difference in speed of delivery ? Look, in I don't know. That's a good question. We're going to have to be capable to find out. Yeah, we're going to I wouldn't where they well, so the thing is they will tell you you saved X amount of dollars or something if you had to pay for delivery But to your point, like I did I don't I actually don't know, but prime has escaped the chopping block for now. I think we're gonna be okay. The other big one , it's Prime Day. This is a national holiday, my friend. Thank you. It's not I mean, it's no flag day. It's no flag but yes, fair enough The other one of us isn't going to have a US UFC octagon installed , but it would be in space. Yeah . Apple one , I paid for the most expensive one they have and it sounds insane. And this is a tip, this is a great example of subscription service because it starts small. It's like two bucks a month for iCloud plus storage and suddenly it's forty bucks a month and you're like what happened? But I have all four of us use it to some degree . Apple has family sharing and it works great. And again, geographically does not matter . So the two kids and me are backing up devices, multiple devices, two iClouds. So there' that. My wife and I both read Apple News. My wife now uses Apple Music because one of the things I got rid of kind of necessitated that. We watch Apple TV every day and might be missing something, but there's a lot of stuff in there. So you kind of do the math. And of course, they structure the subscriptions in such a way that you couldn't do exactly the four things I want anyway, but whatever, it's going to be more expensive, et cetera, et cetera. So that one that one passed. I'm sad to say I'm getting rid of my audible pro bscription. I don't know what it's called. Whatever Audio Premium plus fifteen bucks a month fifteen bucks a month used to be ten bucks a month, but it's not just the problem is I don't have enough time and I often build up credits . Exactly. And I have to pause it, which they do let you do, and it's easier today than it used to be, but I just I just don't use I have so many audio books and one of the things I mentioned libraries at some time in last year. I'm going to write about this again . Between audible or ebooks and audio books , there is an astonishing range of ways to get these things free through like libraries and related programs . And most books, not all books, and I'm maybe a weird example, someone who has read many books many times , You only listen or read them once, right? So if you're going to do that by it, I mean, then you know you spend whatever you spend on the book, but I'm spending fifteen bucks a month on something. Sadly, I feel bad about this one. I don't use, you know? So I've been playing paying for this one didn't affect my kids at all. Actually audible didn't either clip champ. I've been paying for that. You don't have to pay for clip champ. But this is a premium thing. It's twelve bucks a month, but they've changed it so that some of the benefits of that thing are now go through if you have a Microsoft three hundred and sixty five family subscription, which I do . So I got rid of that . There's some Google one Google AI Pro , something, you know, we'll see how that evolves. I've gotten a lot of free stuff through buying having pixels and things, and eventually that will end, but I will say their online storage thing makes much more sense financially than Microsoft, so that's out there . Hulu was like , Hulu shocked me how much it's like basically twenty bucks a month. It's so expensive, yeah . And it's like my daughter, this is the, this is the one my daughter piped up. And I was like, You're have going to to figure this out, kid, I'm sorry. Like she can still get EDU pricing on things. They don't have a hulu no ads version for students, which is kind of bizarre , but she can get the version with ads for like nothing. Like I want to say it's two bucks a month like so you're gonna have to watch the ads or you're gonna just pay I can't do it. Netflix, like I said, dead. The biggest one pay for YouTube premium, you must. That's the last one. I'm gonna get that. So that's the big one. Spotify , I've been I've been wanting to kill this forever. It's not quite twenty bucks. It's eighteen months. I hate Spotify. I don't use it. My daughter and son always used it. My wife moved to it at some point. She doesn't do a lot with music, but she had been on Pandora and I don't remember what it was, but we had a good pandora replacement, I think. Yeah, we were using it like whatever. So she kind of uses it, whatever. So I talked to the kids about this and this is this is the thing. You got to talk to people like when you're paying for things that other people are using, you gotta check in from time to time. I know . My son moved he moved to Apple Music about either last year or the year before and the reason he did was because they have really good I don't know if it's you know he's deaf, right? So he but he can hear what their cochlear input. But there's something in Apple Music I don't know if it's live captioning or some capability into there that he loves and he's just switched to it. So he just used . And they had something like that. Yeah, I don't remember what it was, but he's super, he loves it. So I figured my daughter would be the holdout here again. And she goes, Oh, I don't even use this anymore. She's like, I get this through my student thing for nothing. And I was like, Oh, thanks for telling me. So I was like, All right, this is going. And then my wife's like, hold on a second. She's like, I use Spotify. I'm like, No, you don't. But you're going to use Apple Music. She's like, I have an Android phone. I'm like , Welcome to my world, honey, it works. You'll be fine. Yeah. So I just switched her over. She's fine. That one's that's, you know, whatever. So YouTube Premium is the thing that's emerged as what I would call a glass service stand . This is just an entertainment space, but I don't know why this is so cheap for me. When I look this up , it says this is for an individual thing. It's sixteen bucks per month, according to YouTube. I'm paying less than eleven dollars per month and I don't know why. I don't know if I was grandfathered at in because I used to pay for YouTube music premiums. I have no idea, but if you ever watch YouTube without this and then you try the premium and you don't have ads and you can skip the sponsor segments and stuff . You will never want to use YouTube anymore. Go back . It is, it is the one if I had to kill everything, this is the thing I watch and I watch it more than I think I watch anything. I know, I definitely do. I watch YouTube more than anything. But don't you get YouTube music with that? Yes, and that's what I use for music. So you have a lot of music subscribers. I used to have three. I used to have three. Spotify is a standalone one I got rid of . Apple music is part of Apple one, which I'm not getting rid of, but I use it sometimes. But my wife now and my son use it, that's fine. YouTube music and YouTube premium to combine for me is ten fifty nine dollars a month. I mean, it's like it's worth it.. I'm not getting rid of this Like a must. And I look, I'm just telling you for music, if you're a music lover, yes, they do not have Dolby Atmos sound. They don't have lossless audio . But what they do have is the entire YouTube collection of videos, which includes many songs that are in no services other than there . And they work in audio playlists and YouTube music. So you could have like a live song from a concert that's on YouTube. It's in a playlist of music. It's very it's a unique capability and I love it. Like I love YouTube music. And see how it works. I'm not a fan of it. I use it because I have Google devices . And when I ask for an album, it almost always says here's a YouTube playlist . Right. And it's not an album. It's somebody made a playlist. And that bugs the hell out of me. I feel like I'm trapped in sure why that is this is like the dedicated YouTube music app. Yeah, it's not really like it's not like the others weird looks like these things getting albums. So many people I'll criticize Spotify and people like I, don't know what you're talking about. I love this thing and it's like , I hear you, I hate it. I mean, I hate it so much. I do not want to use it. I don't I hate it. But there's something about YouTube music that works for me. It just makes sense to me. I don't know why I have a hard time using Apple music in some ways because it's not as the same way. It's weird. I know it doesn't make any sense. It modifies public the best. I hate to say it . I hate it. I'm not, I don't care the guy. Just in terms of like getting the music you want, getting the radio station or the album . Look, this is I actually I think I'm rare for my age group. I'm always looking for new music. For new music. Don't you think that Discover channel? Well, you don't have it anymore. I don't have it anymore. But at the time, I thought no, I don't care about Spotify discover. YouTube and Apple both do this as well. I think Apple is actually very good playlist for bands, for example. But if you're out in the world, depending on the phone, like a pixel that has that thing built in the home screen, which is wonderful. If you have an Apple device, you have a show what the music is. Yeah . And so I kind of click this stuff. We'll be in a restaurant, a bar it could be an Uber, you know, this mus ic playing. And I'm like, oh, what's this? And then every once in a while, I'll add a bunch of songs to a play. I'll listen to him again because sometimes they don't fly right and sometimes they're like, That's why there's so much mariachi music on your playlist. Yes . I'm a big fan because you said that because you said that, I will just tell you, this is an embarrassing fact about me. I hate Mariachi music . I am friends with people in Mar aioja band and they are really nice people. They come by . They come by this bar we are at all the time. We always it's great to see them. They came and sang on my birthday, for example . I really am not a fan . I love that big bass guitar that they play . I just love the trumpets, the tight butt outfits. I just think in every way. I tried to he didn't understand enough English for this joke to be funny for him, but I was like, you guys are like the opposite of Minudo. You only do this when you get old enough, you know? And he was like, he's like, I don't know . Not a boy. I'm like, you're eighty years old. That's what it's like. It's so happy . Yeah. So happy man. So look, the stuff I just mentioned in that list, that's ninety four dollars a month that I got rid of. Like that's astonishing. That's amazing. There's a whole other world out there though, because there's also things like newspapers which I pay for some of which, are really work to, be I got care ful here. There are Microsoft three hundred and sixty five consumer and business subscriptions and also well the Google stuff which I have to sort of rectify get there and game pass, ultimate, right? But the thing is in the Richard is the only one who'll sort of understand this . I have all these friends who used to work at Microsoft who still work at Microsoft. So I get like entry into their kind of ability to buy those things less expensively sometimes. So I have racked up years of Microsoft three hundred and sixty five family, Microsoft three hundred and sixty five business not basics, I think it's business standard or whatever . Game pass ultimate.ly These are things right now me I would not pay for. But I paid for them in much smaller increments, like smaller amounts and bought, you know, years out, you know, so they're just there and they're they're going to occur . L Iike'm just you know, my wife uses some of it. You know, I rarely use Xbus GamePass ultimate. But when you add that stuff up , those three things those Microsoft subscriptions , I mean, this is like fifty bucks a month just from just to micro soft, you know, or it would be if I was paying the full price. I'm just lucky I don't. So whatever. And then I'm not going to get into this day. I'm already I'm running long, I got to be careful, but there's more to come here because obviously in some cases you can be like, okay, I'm paying for three music services and get rid of one. Great. That's pretty simple. But how do you make up for you don't have Netflix, you don't have Hulu? What do you do if you get rid of the New York Times and the Wall Street Journal or whatever ? And so I'm going to this will keep coming up, you know, next month or two. So we'll hit that when we hit it, I guess, is the isn't easily turn on the sports service when the curling events are ones . Well, that's not what I would choose. But one, yeah, so we don't pay for we don't have live TV, right? So one of the issues that this has been for years, right? So we have people over on New Year's Eve and we want to watch the ball drop or something. So my brother in law will bring over like a fire TV stick and he has his thing and it works fine. Or you know, my son and daughter will be home over Thanksgiving Christmas or whatever, not for the whole duration, but they come for Thanksgiving and then leave and come back for Christmas. And it's like, well, Mark, especially is like, well, I want to watch the basketball games on Christmas Day or the football games on Thanksgiving Day, whatever it might be. So it's like not every year, but often I will pay for like a month of two of YouTube premium, which by the way is like a car payment . But I won't pay for it for the whole year because you know I, wouldn't want it. I don't watch it. That's just wasted money . So we were already doing a little bit of this. There may be a thing, like I said, and again, this is not a unique idea, but maybe there's some big show on Netflix. You're like, All right, we'll just pay for Netflix this month and then we'll use it. Like we'll watch that show you binge it. Yeah, we'll binge other things and then we'll get rid of it and we'll move over to whatever service. You know, so we'll see how that goes. When a new show, you know, a new season of Earth the Moon comes up. So you sign up for Apple TV, you binge it and you shut it off again. Oh yeah. So I didn't mention Apple TV because it's part of Apple one and that's just gonna continue because it's part of it. But yeah, I don't I wouldn't pay for Apple TV myself either. Apple TV plus. If that was a stand alone thing, I yeah, we do watch it. You know, we use the Apple TV. I have an Apple TV device and we have whatever apps on it and I have my NAS that has content on it. And I can play that on the TV. I do that stuff, but the actual Apple, well I do, you know, like shrinking and Ted Lasso will come back and there's good shows Earth to the Moon, or what's it called the Mankaide? Frawlman Kind. Yeah, there's great show's on there, but I don't have to give money every month, but I do because I'm a good apple cut. I do anyway. I do. That's how I do things. Okay , anyway. The epic will be considerably shorter. Sorry, I think I might have mentioned this recently anyway, but I have two markdown editors I go back and forth all the time as the one I prefer the most. But IARITER is one of the two. I had mentioned them recently or the past counselles because there were some changes there where they allowed you to buy the app directly from them, not just through an App Store, which I think is kind of cool . If you buy it on desktop , there was they brought the well they did the two point zero version of Windows, which is a big improvement. It's still not quite as good as the Mac, but still a big deal . There's authorship on there now, meaning you can see who wrote what and color, you know, whatever. If you're collaborating on document s,ites. I'll never use it but kind of cool. And then they had separate search outline views and still do on Windows actually. But now they've integrated those on the Mac, iPad and iPad, I wrote in the notes. Mac iPad, and , iPhone . And so this is, you know, depending on where you're at and where you work and where you do things , this is if you're going to move to markdown, which I do recommend , this is one of the two best apps for sure. Well, it's time for our hydration break . This took all of the penalty minutes up . So we're just going to have to get right to Richard Campbell and Runaz radio this week's runaz is with Tenya Jenka, otherwise known as she hacks purple so yeah it's her handle on Twitter and other social media is she's done a couple of great books, but she very much focused on helping developers do the right things as far as security concerned. But this particular conversation was more aimed at the administrator, hence on Runes , where we're talking about what administrators can do to help secure developers . So the black hats, especially with the new LLM tools, are getting good at targeting developers. You know, they're still running in very privileged accounts. Most developer tools need high privileged accounts just to operate. And they're often touching secrets, getting into various vaults and things. They have access to high privilege accounts and the cloud for deployment . And CICD pipelines, while sort of essential to modern development also have huge vulnerabilities. And the ability for the LLMs to parse data and then quickly create a response had meant a whole new class of attacks on developer pipelines . And so this was the conversation we focused on about dealing with how these supply chain s, these different forms of supply chain attack are emerging , not just that they're hacking open source software and it's getting deployed, but rather that that the pipelines themselves hold so many privileges and it's very easy for devs to make a mistake that a phishing attempt against a Dev account which can be successful often leads to high privile accessged that can be moved on very quick ly. And so we start to work through various scenarios of how we can contend with these problems and help developers secure the process a bit more, lock a few more things down and just trying to make it harder for the bad guys to have success . Nice . Well, I'm going to it's actually spun up a bunch of shows like over the next month, you're going to see me revisit these topics of the role of LLMs in hacking. Oh yeah because it's just the environment is changing. So we're talking about it a lot on security now for sure. It's big or it's a big, big deal . Well , I'm glad that the cheering coming from Vancouver did not drown you out . You can now continue don't look at the don't look at the TV What's the score? Do you know the score? What's the score? I'm not going to tell you the score. I'm just going to say score. There are about it's five ones five. No, no, no, no, no, no, it's much closer. In fact, it might get closer still in a moment and oh I'm just going to say that there's about twenty minutes left and yeah we're gonna have time to watch the final moments of that game. That's where there's just about twenty minutes left in this podcast. Whiskey segment right now well and I'm not going to rush this one because I've been putting together a story which I'm going to actually use later sort of on how Canadian whiskey has evolved and in the process of doing that realized there was this weird exception and I happened to have had a drink of this this weekend although, I don't have the bottle with me . And it's Glen Breton, specifically the Glenn Breton rare ten . So we have to go to Nova Scotia . And Nova Scotia's one of the Atlantic provinces or also known as originally the Maritime Provinces along with New Brunswick and Newfoundland . There's a little Ismith that can between Nrunswick and Nova Scotia, the main part of Nova Scotia called the espus of Genecko that connects the two together. And then the third is Prince Edward Island. That's, you know, Anne of Green Gables, that's where is she from just north of Nova Scotia , which is actually connected to New Brunswick now via the very shiny Confederation bridge, which only opened in nineteen ninety seven before that you had to take a ferry . Cape Breton specifically is an island right adjacent to Nova Scotia, just on the northeast, it's side part of Nova S cotia now, connected via thing called the Kenso Causeway, which also has a canal and so forth for ships to get through. But this, of course, is an ancient land, the Mikmac people had been there for millennia and they called the island much more appropriately A Nuamaki, which means the land of the long fog because this is Atlantic Canada right on the water and it is foggy there a lot. It's on that Francisco, yes. Yes . This chunk of this particular this is a seasonal island. The Mick Mac would fish the coasts in the summertime and hunt inland in the wintertime, although the McM ac people spread all across the Atlantic provinces, Labrador, Newfoundland , across Nova Scotia down into what would be northeastern Maine as well . And those they've been there for milliliterally millennia. The Vikings didn't make it as far as Nova Scotia. Very famously, there's Lansda Meadow, which is of northern Newfoundland around one thousand AD . They set up a site and there's actually written documentation from the Vikings of that era . They didn't last because the native peoples that were there were tough and fought back . This great piece I read in one of the historical references about a Viking describing an Inuit, or okay, an eskimo. These were the people that used that that lived on seal primarily and had kayaks . And so the Viking was confused because it had he's found this upper body of a human wrapped in skins but wearing a boat . And so but it ends with poked it with a spear and it bled just like a person. It's like gee, how do you make friends ? Anyway, if you fast forward a bit there's a famous fellow by the name of John Cabot, an Englishman who sailed a boat called the Matthew up the Atlantic coast in fourteen ninety seven . And he very likely went past Nova Scotia but did not land. His official landing site is an area called Cape Bonavista on Newfoundland, although that is debated somewhat. He wasn't good at keeping records. He didn't do a lot of documentation, but he did in a letter note that the waters in that area were quote teeming with cod , like cod to the point where it was difficult to row through it . This is that area now known as the Grand Banks and within a few years French ambassque fishermen were working those banks. So food first . The French were the first to colonize the area in the sixteen hundreds. This is Samuel de Champlain as in Lake Champlain and Pierre Dugot , who initially settle in sixteen oh a settlement in sixteen oh four on a little island in the Bay of Fundy called Saint Croix. They last a year after a bad winter and a bunch of disease they move over onto the land is now known as Nova Scotia into they called the town they established Port Royal, although today is known as Anapolis Royal and we'll explain why. This is the beginning of the Acadians . Now Now, shortly after that, by sixteen oh eight, Champagne goes down to St. Lawrence and establishes Quebec and really becomes the center of new France . And so Acadia is largely neglected. It's its own farming and fishing area and the new St and the. Lawrence Valley becomes the more important busy spot. There's just a lot more opportunity there. There's a lot more land there, the access to the Great Lakes. That all became a big deal. So the Acadians are largely left to themselves, although they are interacting heav ily with New England because Maine is right there. You know, it's just not that far . And in fact, the English keep pushing up into that land and in sixteen thirteen ones captain Samuel Argal of Virginia Burns Port Royal to the ground, which kicks off a bit of a conflict with the Acadians. In the middle of all of that, in sixteen twenty one, a large group of Scottish colonists arrive and claim the region and that's when they call it Nova Scotia as in New Scotland . Although the French are like, what the what? And they had a treaty called the St. Germain and LIE in sixteen thirty two go no, this is French land. Get out of there. But a few years later, during Cromwell's England forty in sixteen fifty four , they seize Acadia and they hold it for sixteen years, but don't colonize it because they're busy fighting their own fights, the Civil War in England . And so with the Treaty of Breadhead in sixteen sixty seven, it is French again . And the Cadians at this point are like, you all just do what you want to do. We just want to farm, like, leave us alone In sixteen ninety, what they call the King Williams War and Queen Anne's War resulting New England forces. So this is coming up from the colonies , attacking Port Royal . The French and the McMac are working side by side . In French law, the McMac are just subjects. They're part of the population. They're treated equally . And so the McMac are very pro French and they work to fight against New England quite success fully until finally the British role major troops in it in seventeen ten, take Port Royal once for all, rename it Annapolis Royal, which is its name today. And that ultimately results in the seventeen thirteen Treaty of Utrecht , where France cedes all of Mainland Acadia today we called New Brunswick and Nova Scotia to Britain , and that leaves these Acadians who are French Catholics now under British P rotestant rule, and the Mick Macs aren't having any of it because the British don't consider them humans . They're just natives . And so they fight the British steadily . But the French being forced off the mainland part of Nova Scotia focus on Cape Breton, the island just to the north there. And they call it Il Royal . And they also have what's now known as Prince Edward Island at that time known as Islam St. John and will later be known as St. John for the longest time before it becomes PEI . They built a town called Louisburg in seventeen nineteen and they built a large fortress which isn't complete till seventeen forty, but is one of the most powerful fortresses in the area. This is the eastern side of Cape Breton, it has an excellent sheltered harbor with both the town and the fortress. It's an effective guard to the Gulf of St. Lawrence, so it is supported by France, whose again, most of their activ ities are further west down the St. Lawrence in New France . And it becomes a major commercial fishing hub. In fact, it's competitive with Boston and Philadelphia at the time as the major ports on the east coast of the Americas . Now the Acadians are not happy that all of that mainland is now controlled by England, although they're largely neglecting it. So some of them are hanging more in Cape Breton, but they're mostly resisting. And actually, they played the trade game fairly well where they trade with both New England and Louisburg , while the French are saying don't trade with the English and the English saying don't trade with the French. So they just do both. This goes on for a few years until seventeen forty four when war breaks out between England and France. Again, and this time the English come through. They take Louisburg and although a few years later, the Treaty of A ChL appelle heads Louisburg back to France . And that's when the English gets serious. They set up the city, the town of Halifax, which is on the main part of Nova Scotia. This is now the major city of Nova Scotia to counter Louisburg . Now they bring in British troops, they set up a naval port, lots of settlers fled into the area. And it's actually the Mikmac that start to resist. There's a priest called Father Leatour. It's known as Father Leatour's War , where they're actually actively resisting the British . This peaks in seventeen fifty five into what we call the Great Upheaval. This is the mass deportation of the Akadians. B Theritish military roll s into an Acadian village. They take control of the roads and braces, they use the church's assembly point. They require all families to gather for registration. That mostly means the men go in to do the registration. They then lock up the men and then round up the women and children , burn down the farms and the houses, destroy the dyke system seize livestock and or slaughter it, and then force march these families to be loaded onto cargo ship s and dispersed. Many go to the thirteen colonies , some actually end up in Virginia flatly refuses to receive any and they end up diverting to England, some go to France itself, many end up in the Caribbean St,. Delmanique, Guadalupe, Martinique in Jamaica, and some just plain flee all the way to Quebec, but otherwise other locales in Newfoundland and Labrador . By seventeen fifty eight, Ca Breton and PIA fall into the British as well , and this ultimately ends in the seventeen sixty three in the Treaty of Paris, which cedes maritime provinces entirely from France, except for the two little islands , Saint Pierre Milton off the coast of Newfoundland, who will be very important during U. S. prohibition because that's France . And so you can export out of Canada just to these little islands, and then what you do after that doesn't matter to the U kanadians . Fast forward a couple of years in seventeen sixty four, Louisiana opens up to the Acadians and a bunch of the Acadians that have been displaced in France and elsewhere come to Louis iana. This is the origin of the Cajuns . As the British have asserted control over Nova Scotia in a large way, they basically say, hey, if you know colonists are just rare, right? This is still a time of really low populations. And so they do offer that the Cadians can return to Nova Scotia if they declare unconditional allegiance to the British crown, but also can't go back to their original farms, but they can establish new ones. And a bunch do because they know how good the land is and they start to set up other towns in the area . Another big burst of colonization into Nova Scotia comes in seventeen eighty three at the end of the American Revolution, where the British loyalists, you know, as opposed to the traitors , escape from the American colonies and move into the area . And so by seventeen eighty four, Cape Bretont and, Nova Scotia is functioning as its own colony, although they'll be unified in eighteen twenty. And in the midst of all of that, with the Industrial Revolution going on, coal is found on Cape Breton and a bunch of Scottish settlers who have been doing mining in Scotland but rather rather not be there anymore emigrate to Nova Scotia. And so through the eighteen thirties you have a relatively prosperous time . The ports there are very good for building out ships. This is whaling time. There's lots of resource extraction going on, although productivity tapers off in the eighteen sixties as more development is moving west and the development of the railways drive things . And the terrain of Nova Scotia is not conducive to building railways very easily. So the power of the railways moving elsewhere means the money goes there. And so we get to eighteen sixty seven , which is the Confederation of Canada. And although there is much debate, Nova Scotia, New Brunswick do join right at the Confederation point at eighteen sixty seven, where other provinces join later, the latest being Newfoundland just to the north, who doesn't actually join Confederation till nineteen forty nine . Now what has this got to do with whiskey? Well , nothing because the whiskey needs grain and most of the grain being gr thatown' ats that time is for food. And so most of the booze's being made because it's British controlled is rum. They're bringing up molasses from the Caribbean, and most of the distilleries operate out of Halifax, but they're making rum for the most part. And so you don't get a lot of whiskey industry there, although further west where you grow more grain, and that's another story, one we've told at times in and around Quebec and Toronto and Ontario is where you get all the grain growing that turn s into whiskey . But that lands us to nineteen ninety and this place called Glenora. So whiskey came and went, you know, it was popular coming out of the out of prohibition, did and then World War II was an eruption and did all right in the fifties, but in the sixties and seventies and even in the eighties, it slows down a lot. And then there's a resurgence in whiskey and I've always argued that it was that great class ic Malts of Scotland moment in nineteen eighty eight. This was United Distillers, which would eventually become Diagio, where they bundled up six whiskies that they owned, Glen Kinsi, Dalwinny, Cragonmore, Obon, Talsker, and Lagavulan also ordered in sort of strength of flavor, Glenkinsi being the mildest, the lowland, and Lagavulin being from Ila being the very speedy strong one . And the expectation was the middle, Craigenmore, the spaceide would be the hit, but it turned out that Laga Voolin was the hit, that the very strong flavored, and it sort of fed into the culture at the time and suddenly single malt whis key was a big deal again . And right at that time, a guy named Bruce Chardine in nineteen eighty nine decides he wants to make single malt whisky in Cape Breton. He thinks the conditions are much like Scotland, Cape Breton looks like the Highlands of Scotland, but he's also the first to talk about making single malts in North America full stop . So he travels in Scotland to learn more about whiskey making and ends up setting up a relationship with Beau More of all places who ultimately train him and even equip him. They ship him out with a couple of ex Baumore stills and nash guns back to Cape Breton. They even provide some whiskey early on. He does a blend with Bomore in it . So the distillery's up and running in nineteen ninety, very small operation. He's got a limited amount of money, but now you got the real problem making whiskey, which is a distillery is the easy part. Waiting for it to mature is the hard part. And so Jardin tries to make a go of it, he sells a white dog called Kenlock Silver, although it doesn't do particularly well and does do a blended with some bow more in it to try and create some other options . But by nineteen ninety four, he's about out of money and makes a deal with a very well to do family in Cape Breton, known as the McLanes, specifically Laughlin McLean, who does buy Jardin's concept of making a great Canadian single malt . Jardin largely bows out at this point and actually passes away in nineteen ninety nine. And by the way, I could not even find a photo of this guy much, less much of his history, but he figured if he passed away in nineteen ninety nine , he missed the Internet revolution for the most part. He just never was actually online . But when the McLane's take over, they recognize the tourist opportunity this is and build out a big visitor center, a pub , even a set of chalets. There's a bit of a hotel complex there. So it's a destination as well as a place to make whisky . And so by two thousand , so roughly ten years in, they start to produce a version of their whiskey. They call Glen Breton Rare . And the whiskey the Scottish Whiskey Association freaks out because they always associate Glen with Scottish whiskey. That's not Canadian product. And you know, Glenn Or's response, of course, is the bottle is labeled very clearly product of Canada . So they actually , the SW A files suit in Canada, and the Canadian Trademarks Board rules in favor of Glenora. It's clearly a Canadian product. Glen can't be an owned word. That's not a thing. The SWA does not give up. They actually go to the Federal Court of Canada. Who overturns the decision and basically tells Glenor they have to rebrand Glenor Candra whose again goes to the Federal Appeals court in two thousand nine, gets it overturned again in favor of Glen Aura . SWA doesn't give up, goes to the U Supreme Court of Canada, and they refuse to hear it. And so it sticks. You can use the word Glenn. In fact, they responded that by in twenty ten releasing a bottle, a fifteen year old called The Battle of the Glen , but the other side of that whole battle was a huge amount of free marketing . This made the news every where of Scotland trying to defend the idea of making single malts . And it really established precedent that single malt is not just a Scottish thing. And we've already talked about the fact that single malt is a completely made up thing. It was made up by the Glen Livitt guys in the sixties as a marketing strategy. It's got nothing to do with anything . That being said , Glenn Breton rare ten is very much a Scottish whiskey. In fact, they use Scottish malt . They do a sixty hour fermentation in wooden washbacks. They have these two five thousand six hundred liter four sized stills from Rothes. They are the ex Bowmore stills they, got back in the nineties and they even build Scottish style rack houses. Earth floors, wooden walls, barrels stacked horizontally . They age in American oak, ex bourbon barrels. They also do some specialty barrels includ,ing some ice wines, which are very distinctive. They make a main line production that looks like Scottish whiskey. A ten year old, a fourteen year old, a nineteen year old, and now a twenty one year old. It gets pricey though. The Glen Breton ten drinks like a spay . It's mild, it's sweet, it's fruity , and it's about ninety dollars Canadian. So it's not that cheap, and you can get it in the US for about one hundred and twenty bucks . And that's all I got to say about that was like two minutes just banned . You ended so roughly I wasn't prepared. I just came in. Okay. I didn't run you at a time, friend. Bretton. Everybody. Glen Breton. And you know, I have this whole story of the Canadian whiskey and like Glen Bretton doesn't fit into it because they've done their own thing. Yeah, they're just well funny. They're funny car off. They literally were the first single malt in North America . Wow . Mr. Richard Campbell's done it again, ladies and gentlemen, our hydration break is over and you may now resume your previously enjoyed broadcast, whatever. Thanks for watching . It looks like game is almost over two. So we'll just we'll end on this note before Richard burst into tears . And oh no, you know what? Canada's going on anyway, aren't they? They're going to go anyway. You need to tie, right? Well, if they tied, they got to play their games in Canada. They've lost now they're going to have to play the games in the US and who wants that ? Nobody wants that. Nobody wants you stole my joke from me, but yes, that's your point. Can we just play in Mexico? I mean Campbell is at runers radio. com. That's where you'll find his podcast. Runner's radio in eth rocks. And yes, there's a new geek out episode of Dot Net Rocks on Data Centers. Yeah, did the data centers in space as a dot net rocks? I hope you set it as space in space. I think that's going to be great. I can't wait to listen to that. I was watching NDC talk on AI. That's up there on YouTube now. So that's great. Everybody can see that. Paul Thorat is at Thorat. com become a premium member. You get all his books too. If you're already a premium member at thrott. com, you can go to lean pub dot com and pick up a copy of the field guide to Windows eleven Windows DNSIDifying Windows. That's a bit of a word and Windows everywhere, a history of Windows through its coding frameworks . Together, Paul and Richard join us every Wednesday, Levan Pacific two PM Eastern eighteen hundred UTC for Windows Weekly. You can watch us do it live. If you're in the club, of course, in the Club Twitter Discord, but also on X . com, Facebook, LinkedIn , Kick , YouTube , and Twitch. Six different places you can watch live. After the fact, on demand versions of the show are at our website. We have audio and video at twit v slash mbw. The video also lives on a dedicated YouTube channel for Windows Weekly. But the easiest thing