Psychiatry and the McNeil Household

T like blood love them Sy because nothing's more relaxed than the ces of te and love. So spend ten hours quly and r Welcome to the Eer season of With Gourly and Rust. I'm Matt Gorlely. And I'm Paul Ros. Oh my God. Oh no. Well, Paul, you are the Catholic in the duo here, so that's very true. I should see this guy. He's hideous Hi, Matt. Hi. Are you okay Yeah, I just had a well, not a frog in my throat Satan in my throat. Oh my Godd. A realz. I've been playing operation with Glenn and now it's like all expressions. so like frog in your throat butterflies in your stomach and you have to pull out. and she asked what a frog in the throat was. And more interestingly, they mentioned very briefly in the new version that that guy's name is Cavity Sam. But she calls the game Sam Cavity Iate. Yeah. When did this? I don't always been a Maybe But I don't know, but now to her, she's like, can we play Sam Cavity? Oh my gosh, I hope this isn't like a Captain Howdy in the Ouija board with the exorcist is Sam Cavity on the operation game board. bring Sam Cavity backlered idioms from the nineteen thirties and my Ats and feelings. I had a lot of nicknames for Glenn when she was born. One was Captain Howdy Lipso Pouty. And I will just just get this off right away. There were times when Glenn was going through a period of real like tantrums and stuff and she like I've mentioned this before, does like a force push thing when I'll try to like help her. She'll go now Just like Reagan a little Yeah, yeah. I'm sure. Oh my gosh, I mean, that resonates with everyone, every parent on some level. like Is my kid a little devil? No She's a little she's a little little stinker out of whatever a priest notot for your daughter, but just for one's daughter's possessed and they come over and they're like, we checked out and Daughter's not posessed by a devil,'s just a little stinker. She's possessed She is a little stinker, she's possessed by Possessed by a little stinker, not the devil. J just a little stinker. And that's why she's been You though painting on the walls She's possessed by the spirit of alfalfa from the little rascals or sppanky or something. Now you know there's now a curse of alfalfa Be of two actors who have played Wait, what happened in the second one? D't By the way, this is our little rascal season we're doing here on with Gorle and Rest Yeah, let's not confuse little seekers with little rascals or little shits. I mean that's entirely. I know the first Alfalfa was shot and killed and he kind of devolved into a life of petty crime and stuff like that. He's buried at Hollywood forever. The time I went and saw his This grave was the time that I've also mentioned, I believe that out of nowhere I turned around. The time I went I spit out his grave. Yeah, I hate that guy. That was when it happened. I was just there with a couple of friends and we turned around and out of nowhere. A little boy was just sitting on a tree branch going by himself. He wasn't there before. It wasn't a ghost, it was just circumstance. I that's scary though. So what happened in the second alphaa? And then I swear we'll talk about the exorcist. Oh all just sorted details out would probably I'd get it incorrect and it would be a bummer. So look it up Look it up.s what you're saying. Look it. Look it up. All right. But Matt, I'm so excited and happy to be here with you to discuss the Eorcist movies. I know. And if you're a new listener coming in because you're a fan of the Eorcist movies, welcome. This is the show where we talk Ls in a cozy manner. It's easy Listening horror thriller intntrigue podcast. I'm again, Matt Oarley. this is Paul Rust. Yes. and I've been listening to a lot of Ciskco and Eberts. Yeah. Aain, they're just so cozy. If people love cozy Um You know Those two guys also love to disagree. Yeah. So I would say if you like A Ciskco and Ebert Episode Four times the length with no disagreements. Yeah then come, welcome, welcome. Yeah, that's well. It's so funny too when I watch the Cisk E Birts because I'm so accustomed to how we talk about movies and stuff. I am so shocked that neither of them quickly acquiesce after somebody makes a point of why they liked it I didn't like this. S somebody goes, why I didt like it. The other person has the nerve to be like, well, here's why you're wrong. This is why I' right. And I'm like, No, no, no, no, Cisco or Ebert, like honor that they had good feelings about the movie. Please see our last episode on Dead againg to get a feel for that. That's true. That's true. We had a nice little Patreon only run there with some scissor movies. Yes, and we should mention on that patreon, which is patreon dot com slash with Gorleian Rust You can get our three episode mini season, the Scissor season, which has Play Misty for me dress to kill which has no scissor kills and it was our mistake. listen to the podcast and dead again. You can also Buy those as individual episodes. you just go to the patreon. The other things you get on the patreon, feature length film commentary. That's. mail bag episodes. monthly, cozy tournaments, cozy bracket. That's right. O special episodes solo commentary, I just put up a wonderful little episode because Braantley Palmer who is our Invaluable and wonderful wonderful researcher for this show. Thank you, Brandley He was in town shooting for his new documentary about independent repertory theaters. Double amazing. And we did a mini podcast just for the Patreon for the trustees we call them. and they got to learn about his process of doing research I can confirm that he truly is a gentleman and a scholar. The nicest guy, Oriana and Steve his filmmaking companions. So nice, everybody. Wonderful time. Wow., you hear that term thrown around a lot. Gentleman and a scholar in kind of a cheeky way, but Brantley is a gentleman and a scholar. I tr is a genuine, authentic scholar. And of all our boys that help us out Umar did a Dust and Craft Brantley, we've never met any of them in the flesh before. This is my first time re Brantley. and it was just a wonderful man. That's very's Exquisite. I love that. And then also on the Patreon, we have the live stream that we're doing right now. Glad you mentioned it. If you subscribe at the baby Xenomorph level, you get nam shouted out. J email us with Gorly and Rust Pod at gmail. com or with Gor I think it's just with Gor and Rust at Gmail. com Yeah. and let us know that you're a new baby Xenomorph subscriber and we'll shout your name out. And you get to watch a live stream of this recording Yeah, you get a link can you join us so we chat along. It's fun. Yeah, so like welcome, people, Eorcist fans, welcome back with Gorian Rust listeners. The let's talk about this. C do one quick bit of business? Oh, please. Sorry No, no, no. Just that my first podcast from twenty years ago that went intermittently through all these double decades called Super Ego, which is a lliodast has put out a twentieth anniversary new season seven first episode. M first, thank you. thank you. May first R. And it's out now so you can find it on all your regular podcast players and apps. And we also have our entire back catalog available for purchase. You can find it all at G superEgo. com. Fantastic. And like Let it be said, I mean twenty years ago You're the first guys taking bites of the internet, podcast comedy, sketch Apple, which still to this day I feel like hasn't been as like Um Hm It should explode. Yeah, I don't know. We't know We didn't know what we werere doing and we still don't, but we're continuing to do it Well, you guys are beloved. I mean, I feel like so many with Gorly And Rust listeners join the podcast, mostost of them just because they're super ego fans f and of course, fans of Mag Gorly. Well, I don't know. I've had my toe dipped into too many podcast waters, a couple of which we'll also talk about during this episode because I had Eileen Dietets on a former podcast of mine called I wasas There two. And she was the stunt double for Linda Blair in this and was also when you see the face of Pazusu flash up in the black, she's the person wearing that makeup She's the Reagan part or she's the pazoo. She She's Reagan's stunt double But also did the makeup test for what the original Pazuzu demon was gonna look like and they used that for the quick little interjections of the Pazuzu demon. Yeah.ot notot the sculpted demon, but the face you see. Oh my God. Wow. And she was trip and a half. I bet. I mean she's probably she's still alive? She's still with us believe so And she not only did like some of the actual physical stunt doubling, but the like crucifix masturbation and things like that. And o boy. as Brantley states in his notes for this You know, she and Fri can evidently had a detailed conversation and she was like, no it's different for girls because you have torque your wrist this way and stuff. So like there was a level of accuracy that Eileen Dietets brought to the Crucifix masturbation. Wait a minute That movie Torque, is it about them shooting that scene? I never saw that I've never seen Trque either, but it has to be. It has to be. I think the only conclusion is it has to be. Well, congrats to Super Ego. Everybody check that out. That's awesome. And also yeah, listen to I was there too. Yeah, and enough of that plugging and I appreciate you of Let's talk about this. We're getting into this This has long been coming for us. I think we resisted covering certain elements of this franchise and other things they could have fit into, like Exorcist three or this one because I think we always knew we wanted to give this season, it's a full season due to this franchise. to the franchise. giveive it give it its real due about like what we u Yeah, because oh my gosh, it's a bigiggie. I mean, we've been doing the podcast for seven no friend, eight, eight years. Ye goodness. G this fall. Yeah. Wow, holy mooly. So for we waited until we could give it its due. Yeah. So Matt, what was your first experience with the Xoris? Well, it had been so present in the culture for so long. You know, I'm a little older When I was a kid, everybody always talked about excist, the exorcist, how it. You know blew them away in theaters. I think until the shining came along, there wasn't anything like that. And previous to this, it was psycho, theseese were these things. and maybe the shining wasn't even as resonant in the culture as a moment in the theater as the other two were. So I never saw it until they did the special extended cut edition in two thousand and I would have been Uh twenty seven Hell yeah. Is that right We're eight years older than me or as I call it, it's one with Gourly and Rust. Yeah of our p. Yes, that's we planed it that way. I think that's how they refer to the presidential terms. It is in a senatorial. Obama had one with Gorlean Rust and for now in twenty twenty six. And any senators shall serve one with Gorlean Rust duration in the year of twenty twenty six, that's kind of weird why we're betting it down to those a But uh Yeah, Oh and you It said right now that its like it was a different version. We did watch the original Theatric. We did so people just so, but it's cool if you watch the other one, of course. Yeah. No judge. I don't know. if that's just your kink,'sally fine. So what you saw when you were twenty seven, were you at twenty heaven or twenty hell? It's interesting this movie on so many levels or the One thing that was very formative for me in this first time viewing this is my girlfriend and I at the time saw it in a theater where no one else was in there. And then right when the movie started, I may have mentioned this before, but it bearars repeating A lone man walked in with a severe limp and just wouldn't sit down And he got up and he left out the right. and then, you know, ninety seconds later, he'd come in the left. and then he'd l. And so a real Pac manan skitch there you guys are the Dots It was so It was so like was he? I don't know. he was muttering to himself. So it made the whole movie in ways enhanced and detracted from the movie. But yeah, if you guys are like watching like failure to launch, it would be like a different vibe, how about a guy In that situation'd be like, he's cute. Yeah. L at, he's looking for love. Yeah Yeah, I suppose. Yeah. Or watching usual suspects and you know you like, oh, he's zbulating a big character. So what was did he eventually leave or He was for a while. He might have left at some point. So it did enhance the creepiness of the movie I don't think that I at that point in my life appreciated the slow burn of this movie. and I wasn't steeped enough in like cinema of the seventies to understand the context. There's so many things that are amazing, but when you don't experience them firsthand like people did, when they first saw this, it must have blown their minds and it obviously on record did. But because I had seen so many things that were born out of the style of the exorcism that had moved and elevated, not elevated, but like almost in a way like accelerated It it felt a little dry to me and I also don't think I was in college and I don't think I had like Enough of like the cinematic empathy to fully appreciate it. Then I watched it again for the I was There I podcast, which probably would have been around twenty sixteen or something I appreciated it more. This time,' you know, I've watched so many slober and seventies thrillers and stuff This movie got me so in the right place this time. I literally got chills the first time Regan kind of gets possessed. I got goosebumps. I was so I closed the drapes, I shut the blinds. I was so into this movie this time and it hit so hard to For the first time I had that feeling like I could have imagined what it was like to see in this theater. You and I were talking about before we started, just how is it our age that does almost seem more shocking when you get older and it's not us clutching our pearls, I think it's the ability to have empathy for being a parent and stuff like that. we wouldn't have been able to empathize with it before, but it just man, I loved watching this movie. And at the same time was so obviously like as its intention is put off by it, you know? Oh, yes. I mean, all well said. I mean, yeah, I was like same u watching it just really in the clutches of it. It's But the thing you were saying too about Um way that it would be appreciated When you saw it the first time and it being like a slow Burn Um, It is interest. I wish to your point of like, Ought to have been twenty two. Yeah and seeing this in theaters after consuming a diet of movies that's like Join to the theater Sometimes on TV, late night movies stre like and then going to this I think that or psycho. it would be youd have either one of those would be like the mind blowing Wow, you got to experience this in a theater. And it be fun. I know Star Wars is, but just putting it in a category of like terror, I guess. Absolutely. There's no way that Oh man. so When you're watching it, our age range, when you're getting catching up to it U, and I hope this isn't like boring for the older genX or baby boomer listterers who are like, ah, fuck, don't talk about likeike I would feel that ache of like know, you're talking about your like thirdh experience of like, but it is what it is. It is what it is and it still shows like how powerful it is. but it was like the lore of course was like When you're a kid, it's like You know To watch this movie is the same as putting like a loaded gun in your mouth. It's the most dangerous thing you could do. It was too. And if it's already dangerous to watch a horror movie or an R rated movie or an extreme movie, because you could get in trouble with your parents if they find out, this was the ultimate bind because There was a story about a kid who was like a couple grades older than this class. He was like, Brad saw it and he had to sleep he's in seventh grade and he had to sleep on the floor in his parents' bedroom for like a year because he was so scared. Hearing that My first thought would be Oh, it's scary that he got that scared by the movie It's also scary that he had to tell his parents he broke the rules and watched the exorces. That'sere's my fall rust So that was like the lore of what you did It's like, can you like not freak can you not like lose your mind? And then can you also like keep cool about it? You have to break rules and tell white lies to go see this movie in the first place and then you have to deal with the repercussions. And the only way to get a little help as a kid would be to then admit what you've done The slow burn that hindered it for me when I saw it in two thousand is what boosted it for me in this because it's so elegantly leads you up There's an element of real coziness to this too in that house in Georgetown. Oh, without a doubt. and the season in Georgetown and that period Uh, I'm not like u Yeah, that that house, it's like U The coziness is like a wealthy person's carpet in the early seventies. Like there, But before seventies had turned like rusts and browns. And it's not shag It's like they're so it's rush poweredue. Yes, yeah. And the image when the two priests walk in And like these are like Jesuit priests who have like Their line of work has been around for ages. And then when they're standing there to go up the steps and behind them is just this like kind of chic modern art. It's like what a mind blowing little touch of coz does. The priests make me that Jesuit tradition feels cozy. Yeah And then like a chic Georgetown Brownstone also makes me feel cozy. has this I wonder how many movies there are you could do this with, but I immediately thought, because what year was all the Pentss men? seventy three, right We're seventy four. but I think maybe seventy six. Oh, is it really Oh, you're right. it would had, of course, I'm thinking actual Watergate was seventy three. Oh okay, so yeah Yeah, I can do this still. So in I would love you Aid. Right Yeah. A world where in ' seventy six, when you're watching all the president's men There's like a year old Regan walking by in the background. She's just got faint little scars and the mother is with her and they're just like, because they're in the same exact area. That's true. And My set dar goes off, you know,' something I love moovie going experiences be like location set, lo.. It seems like everything is basically on location with the exception of the house. Yeah. And I love then how the set is used like you know in an expressionistic way, that means like now you can like light it and freeze it and like do all these crazy like as the movie changes and the shadows like start growing darker and like scarier and stuff like within this house I was reminded of all the president's men watching it because I was like, It's how they created recreateed it's the same lot. I think it's the Warner Brothers lot of the old Burbank Studios lot is called But that's where they recreated the Washington Post offices. And so like Warner Bothers, the like kind of Tiffany studio doing this big like lavish adaptation of a best seller Exorcist and all the presidents men. I was like, man to like roll out the red carpet for a Georgetown brdstone interior and like, you know, there's it's famous. like Washington Post you could reach into the garbage of that can and there would be garbage from that day with the date on it of the newspaper my my God. incredible. Anyway, yeah, so when you saw it with the on that first it wasn't a first dayate. It was just a No It was a long time on and off girlfriend. What was the like reaction afterwards would you guys I think we appreciated it, but we' like it's slow and it had been hyped too much. Yeah so it was good that I could kind of like not think about it forever and then really steep myself in the contextual cinema that it belongs to, that helped so much because that is now my favorite type of movie to watch is a slow movie period. Yeah. Not a period piece, but a movie from another period. Yeah. What was your first Well, I was just gonna say with that slow burn, people should listen to this really amazing podcast called The Movies I Mbe co hosted by Joe Dante And Josh Olson. I did an episode of Pople to cheheck it out, but like what was your movie that made you g just You did I picked like Joe Dante? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Why did I don't feel like I knew this. Oh yeah, it was really fun. I got to talk to Joe Dante and stuff. but I picked like six movies and we talked about them and stuff. But they had William Friedichin on as a guest before he passed away And it's amazing. You know how like Comedians will give respect to any comedian who is like brokethrough or famous or, you know, like people love them the mass audience loved them before that person themselves like tried to break in. Yeah. Like Joe Dante, William Frekin made movies before Joe Dante started doing it. And Joe Dante, who's like, I mean, top three filmmaker for me, love him. H talking to William Frekin like a fan is like really beautiful. but he's like, what I really liked about the exorcist, and Joe Dante', I mean, he's seen the most movies that anybody thinks about them all the time. I thought this was so well said He was and listen to it because he'll say it better. But he was saying like The slow burn of the exorcist is like It's just slowly getting You unconsciously, you're not even realizing it believe and just to buy into the reality so that by the point he's like seventy minutes into the movie, the audience is like Uh you skin is ready just to be pulled off. you're so ready to buy into anything true because the movie takes great pains for not only the doctors, but the clergymen to say like this isn't real. Y do this. The process that you have to go through both in medicine and with ch in hospital or a church is basically like the same amount of burearatic red tappe and proof Particularly the idea of like, there's always a specialist who's a little bit better and you have to go to the person and be like, okay, I could kick it up to them and they'll take a look at your weird elbow issue or you know ellbow issue? Elbow I after the shink But when I watched it rewatched it this time, I did watch it particularly with that eye of like, what are all the like the Tricks basically of like getting you to believe so that at the point when like she has to be the demon has to be exercised, you're so like in right? But to to answer your question. I did I think I saw it in the first time in high school. rented it with some friends you know, I was going to say it's funny that yeah, not getting to see it first time means you see it after the legend has already been set. like you said you have to cut it like then like register the legend as you're watching it, which is so funny to me to imagine then that at sleepovers, For years now, people have readed kids have readed the exorcist to get their minds blowed and the first twenty minutes is like desert shit Like it's such a funny little thing that have to go to a mom and a daughter. Yeah and some house housekeeping stuff. Yeah. Oh God. aries yeah. But yeah, I remember seeing in high school feeling like the kind of same thing, restless, then being like grossed out Yeah. And then college re watchatching it in a living room with a group of friends one night and Remember that? Second time watching it, the medical stuff was like really hit me.ike that also primes you for the other stuff later. 'cause you don't question that at all Eactly. I getting your Will's raised and it's It's part of the trick, right? It's like that like weird getting I thought too The lengths that they go to show the procedure in the hospital with the putting the tube in and the blood splurt, it's like wild is kind of mirrored at the end with the priests how they kind of like use a cloth to clear her mouth from vomit. and then another doctor comes over and takes the cloth for him and then like washes it out and brings it back. Absolutely. That was so medical. I was like. Oh That length of time in the hospital is like The same amount of time they're spending here in this bedroom trying to treat her. Yeah. But uh, And yeah, I watched it like Ten years ago Gripped me more And then This time Wing it Not with a group of people, first time probably watching it by myself. too Yeah, that helps. Yeah, and which I wouldn't do. Like I'll be honest, notot 'cause I don't like the movie I love the movie. I was just like,, this is good I got to get this ain Gremlins I can't like have funnder them No like and it might be the most Not fewest attempts and failures at just like the fewest moments of levity in any two hour There's a There's light heartedness at times, but you're right, there's very little. Yeah. so it's just like a grim watch. You know, the audience, the public probably is pretty ready for this in terms of like, you think about how like groundbreaking. Rosemary's baby is an influential that was like, S, five years before this, before the Eorcist, It's a novel. That's about because you know, the devil in sort of like shei East Coast settings gets adapted into a movie. It's a big hit. likeike it did like put out a blueprint for the exorcist U But whereas like Rosemary's baby is really fun because you're sort of like ould this really be happening? We don't know. this is like The oppose it's like, oh, this is really happening. Oh my God. like nobody's believing them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But this is like The audience, I feel like you're not supposed to be like going like it could be, couldn't be. It's like, you know it is. So it's just like the dread of like waiting for like them to like work through all this like It's not unbearable. It's entertaining. It's just like It makes itorr movie backwards in this movie. it reframes it kind and you know, like there's the version of working back like sixth cense and putting together and saying like, oh, he wasn't no one was talking to him. Yeah yeah. This one You kind of go, wait Is it as simple as she just played with a Milton Bradley store purchased Ouija board And is that coincided with the fact that Max Von Sidau's character pulls a pazzu. little amulet out of the dirt to that release Pazuzu into the ether and then the first thing that come into wasas Regan because she was playing with the Ouija board. They don't explain it. It almost seems a little silly And then to find that piece at the bottom of the stairs in Georgetown Su? Yeah. ye Oh, that the outside stairs. Yeah. Yeah.it that the detective finds Yeah there in the bottom of the steps And she was playing with play and making like little turtles and stuff, did she make Braazuzu demon. I mean, the movie probably is built in a way that it wants us to be asking these questions. so it's cool. best kind of ambiguity. Yeah. It's notal little story in my head was sort of like peace somehow traveled. Yeah. And it somehow went its way from like Iraqi desert to this like place in Georgetown or whatever like whatever that gap is, but also maybe I mean Nobody There's so many things where you're like, well, it is the devil and nobody was in on this So what the fuck was happening? Like when she finds the cross In Reagan's room, I believe the staff when they say They didn't put it there, but why would the demon put the cross? So then I'm like, oh, the demon is How is it it can m materialize item. I mean, why not? it's materializing people's voices? So I'm like, okay, it has the power to like materialize the item That was why I was bringing that up in terms of the other, what were we just talking about? that it would explain Oh oh The pazzu piece. Yeah. So is it like It can Do this is so dorky, but like could it take The Bazzu pizza. Out of the Iraq desert out of wherever it was being contained and then just like place it in Georgetown when it needs to be like Yeah, that is all unexplained and yeah, it's cool.st. Even the fact that Lee J. Cobb's detective character is looking at her little sculptures as a way of like, well, did she Yes this because or did someone? Well, in her handy work with the construction down that the mom looks out in the basement is also similar to the what how the statue is defined. So like it looks like the same materials and paint Um Again, I Then you wonder like, so Reagan sneaks out at night? and goes down of the church and desecrates the statue and then comes back up to her room U O is Demon just sort of like has his little tool It's so great either way The kind of metaphysical question we're asking reminds me that The quQeen of eightes metaphysical talk was Shirley McLan. Yes, who was originally supposed the part was written for. I mean, this is fucking crazy. backack to the book, right? ' the cover, the photograph on the original book is Shirley McLan's daughter that William Peter Bladdy took a picture of on I think the set of a The the miracle go. that's not right. But believe me on all the other stuff. it is if I'm wrong and this is just more exorcist lore that I but like it is true that William Peter Bladdy did base they were on her. Yeah the staff, the French staff, Shirley McLan, there's an interview with her on the internet where she confirms all this H her daughter is who Reagan is based on. Um But the u It began because Shirley McLan William Peter Bladdy wanted to tr cononvince her that evil did exist in the world Surely McClean needed convincing? Yes of spiritual. And she's like and now later with my, you know, I kicked into this whole other thing. Is that what got her going? Well, that's what I wondered. I was like, did it lead to this these like questions? or was it just she was always primed to ask questions about spirituality or whatever I guess that explains why she's an actress. It's interesting that John Casveettes is an actor at Rosemary's baby. Is a suggestion that like actors are portals to the devil like with their trickery? Which is also interesting because father is a dwer or Dyer in this? Piano playing. Oh smoking cool was an actual and not an actor and these are the only films he ever did was the exorcist Oh my God, he seems like a movie actor because he lookss like a movie actor. That's why I looked him up. I was like, this guy's great. I'd like to see him in something else. Well, he's not in it anythingore. And he's at the piano and he's slightly like just like having a priest, all these priests are smoking and drinking and just fun loving cabaret playing. I'll tell you, I mean that was u this is my first time. I you know, I've said this now since we started recording. As a Catholic, I can confirm, but we got all the priests, I remember like They smoke cigaretes. They just like you'd catch them like love smke priest. I love the priest and Godfather three who's just nervously always smoking. Yeah. And also the way they talk I loved like the seeds of the exorcist just like where it' sort of like, well, who do you think we should get on this? Well, he's good at this and he's smart about that. And I think he could probably, well, should we have a guy exist him? Yeah, because we need this, you know Yeah. L that those conversations, political conversations exist It's like of course they would. Yeah Of course the cardinal is like tryed But u I love too, it' just that the priests are like Even more the voices of reason than the doctors in this Right? And convincingly so, it doesn't even it doesn't feel like with an agenda, it just feels like they are the ones that are closest to world of exorcism, so they're the ones that are the most cautious and know that it could be abused or isn't real or could be or Well the specificificity of what you were saying of like A Milton Bradley Ouija board is what brings in the devil. So it's like, okay, so you still need some corporate authorization. It's the same way I mean, Pally Kale makes this joke. She's like the exxorcist is like the greatest commercial for the Catholic Church that ever existed. The Catholic Church that normally would put like a huge anti decency a sticker on a movie to keep it from coming out gave a thumbs up to the exorcist, and of course they would. Yeah. Pople probably converted thousand I' watching this movie. O at least Laps Catholics went back Yes. So Brantley's research, he mentions that Audrey Hepburn was was not only sought after but interested in playing this, but she needed to shoot in Rome. They couldn't do that. Anne Bancroft wantanted to do it. That would have been They went to Jane Fonda and she said, I'm not going do this capitalist piece of shit. such that era of Jane Fonda. Oh my God. I love Jane Fonda. donon't get me wrong, but I just love that Its you've got Audrey Hepburn An Bankcroft, Shirley McLan, and then Jane Fnda just nope, Nope, but giveim me Barbarella. There's also that really funny story ike about Mike Nichols, they offered, they asked him. He would usually like at this time at Warter Brothers get like first look at like the big things. him and like Stanley Kubrick each past year exorcist, right? And Mike Nichols then was with him and Elaine May were like driving by a theater for the exorcist that had a huge line up front. And he was like, o man if had made that movie I didn't know it was gonna to be a huge h. I didn't want to do it because he didn't think there could be a child actor that could carry it. Interesting. And for him to say that, you know, working on stage probably with a lot of actors, But he said to Elaine May, oh, if you know, if only I had made that, I would have had a big hit now. And Elaine May said, it's true.'s like No, if you would have made it would have been a hit. So don't worry. it iss true. Mike Nickolas directing the exxorcist would have been shit. I mean liken't William Frekin is such a crazy like sensationalist. I mean, he's like obviously the most gifted you. But there's plenty of stories on this set of firing a gun next to Jason Miller to get him to react And the movie is so classy in all of its presentation that if it was just done a little bit more of a B movie, there'd be so many things that you'd be like, this movie is just so crass and trying to shock us every ten minutes. I mean like it is true. for that It gets not desperate, but there's a point where she just like, while she's getting interviewed by the shhrik, she like squeezes his balls. and I was like If this were in any other movie, you must have missed this. She I know when I saw it, I was like, if this were any movie, this would be spoofed so often. But because it's in a movie with so much other crazy shit to spoof, this scene never gets smofed. Th about like sccary movie two could have I don't think I realized she grabbed his ball. Maybe she did. I know Mbe That'll be right. I'm remembering the moment now. But it is so like Gee, like cruising, I don't know if you've watched that. Cruising is like the version of I've seen cruising and cruising is relevant to this film. Do you know that story? Okay. Okay This is otherure. Okay. Explain. this is soild. Reagan goes in for tests. A lot of you probably know this story. didn't need test Test every test, Mummy. Mister Gorbachev grade that test What? I don't know. Anyway, that's the story. no, no no, please. So when Reagan goes in to get Teston in the in the hospital, there's that first one where there's a male MRI tech, blonde with a beard. He's just in the movie. I believe he was an actual. Yeah, that's a, you know he's not an actor.'s G, like all those um Th those opening scenes in Iraq that are like so convincing because It's real people doing real like r' dire, yeah. What's that? Like the priest, the piano priest. ye. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right, right, right. So yeah, it seems like same thing. We're in a hospital. Let's use the real guys who do this and you feel it. like it looks like a He doesn't look like a movie, like a background actor who got this like dream job of getting to be the EMT technie. Like he's just this kind of like well trimmed beard and kind of like, I don't know if it's a comb over, but he's sort of it looks like it could have been one of the rebel soldiers on Hoth, you know, perfectly Yes Eactly. So this movie, he's in it, it comes out and then He's arrested for the murder of a film critic Then he's in jail and confesses to his cellmate, I believe, that they're after a series of murders in the gay community in New York called the Bag murders. So the Bagman murders were Men have been believe seduced and dismembered and their parts spread in bags elsewhere He has confessed to be that killer. He's never tried or convicted, but he confesses and says that he is that killer. And the film critic was sort of killed in a similar way, so it be. So later, a movie comes out inspired by those murders in the gay community in late seventies, early eighties, New York, called Cruising directed by William Friedkin, who had no awareness that no one had any awareness at the time. Yeah when even no awareness at the time when the exorcist was made and no awareness at the time when cruising was made. No, I don't believe so. I don't believe it was ever crruising. I mean, the opening shot is a body bag part floating in the like East river or whatever. and like so it is directly So yes, that is so scary. Think of just put it in context that when Friedkin was directing cruising, and there's a killer in this movie He never knew That very likely the guy in that MRI scene had already killed The guy wasas that guy and probably already murdered and was like That's other with the Frank Sinatra Dieh story for me for like crazy movie Yeah stories, you know? Yeah, that he was like Like he probably rapped that day on filmy and then went out and murdered Maybe yeah, o my God. But with the The murder of the film critic was only Circumstantial had nothing to do with him being in movies and like murdering him for a critical reason. I don't think That would be Ohh my god Um And like an angry actor takes every all that kills film critics and takes all their thumbs. so they can't give up and down And he kills critics on Rod and tomatoes, he takes their tomatoes. Well, you know, John Wilkes Booth, was an actor and also an assassin U And I have a friend who's that's like a funny theory. He was like, you know, up until like When Hollywood, the Hollywood star system could kind of like glamorize acting U until it was kind of known for disreputable folks. like her yeah. You're performing in theaters, they go from town to town like booths were revered, but the profession was not. Yeah, and you're attracting them I mean ue to this day, a lot of like very talented actors, it's because they got a little wire crossed upstairs. Yeah. So the fact that this like Um Profession has now gotten to the point where you know, uh We're a trustee that's hopefully a celebrity will Say something about an environmental cause to help save us. It's like I know. Whoa, where did? Presidents and governors. Yeah,s right right. Well I'm back Heyy hey, did somebody mention Hey Reagan. Also that his name is Damian, Damian Karis. Man, that's like second only to Adolf of names you can't name a kid anymore. I know. Damiian. And the priest were entrusting to take away a devil his named Damian. U, inside job But there is all this like movie stuff, that acting stuff that does run through the movie. like how the detective when he meets with the actor, compares him to John Garfield. But then later Sal Mino. Yeah. She's an actor. He wants her autograph. It's amazing that they put the I mean, you you become aware of both characters. the Priest is introduced because he's watching them shooting But what a curious Choice What's the name of the movie that she's shooting? I was like Yeah I want to see Crash course. That was the name of the b. Crash course. But it's like made by Warner Brothers. It says that on like the trucks And then so it's like, okay, curious. I guess they're just dealing with the novel, like the novel said she's an actor and stuff. She can't be an actor in I mean, it was because Shirley Mcwain at the time, I think was living in Georgetownot. But you go like, oh, it couldn't be an actor in L.A because there's not this kind of like rich community of like churches and priests or history, you know? so They're setied up for Oh That, but u H that then the movie is about like student demonstration, like student protests. And she's playing like The teacher who's trying to like Bring people together in the movie I don't know. I like We you get two hours, whatever kind of Things you're presenting to the audience, they're like deliberate. I'm not saying like that has a meaning. but in the book, I was just like There has to be something cool, kind of I like when they start contrasting their lives And he's dealing with this like shit of like, you didn't have enough money to put your mom into a hospital. so we put her in an asylum instead. And then it cuts to her at like a dinner party A dinner party I would have loved. Oh my God, please, now that I know that priest was real. But the comparison you know, what are there contrasts between like their two lives? but I also thought like, I guess it's like G Her profession is sort of like Fantasy based. Interesting. Make believe and you're making the argument that Yeahah and she doesn't wrestle with it though. Yeah. And she's sort of be through her fame, she doesn't really have to face like hard realities like walking through a street with cars on you know, whatever the priest has to walk through to get to his house. Th then you're like, oh yeah, on his side It's like You have to imagine what he's talking about. There's some sort of and that he gets compared to an actor too. There's some sort of like, you look as good looking as it. like some comparison between They're two professions and The level of like how much they have to accept like what's really happening in becausecause then by the exorcism, it seems like his thing is like, oh, Jesus, I do have to accept that the devil is I was bad awayay with this But the movie I do think like a slight flaw is that Ellen Bursting gets like the first like ninety minutes and she's amazing in those scenes. And then like the last twenty minutes, half hour, she kind of like doesn't get to be there for the big showdown. Also when you think about the title, the Eorcist, truly, the exorcist in this is Maximan Sidos character Right And he's in all of eighteen minutes, maybe. Yeah, right. It's an interesting title. I wonder why it wasn't called the Exorcism You know, rightight. I maybe the book is more about him, but yeah, this really is all Allan Burston and then not When you said it should be called the Eorcism, I mean, also like let it be said. This movie is so crazy. Did it birth likeike an entire genre sub genre of exorcist Exorcism movies? a hundred percent. So like they didn't exist before the Eorcist and now since then like, I would say once a year since the exorcist came out Not just a possession movie, but how do we get the devil out of this possessed person movie So what's really cool about watching the exorcist is like they're building the formula, you know, as the they're building the plane as it's flying or whatever. So like those scenes that are like, You know we're going to see in every exorcist movie, but in any exorcistm movie like I have to go and tell the priest that I have a problem with a family member who might be why don't we get to the Pope's exxorcist friend if we make it that far. I mean, it's fantastic. With Gly R And Jason Miller, who plays Father Karris in this Damen Karris, Fascinating because whenever I see this movie, I'm always reminded about how I'm not reminded of this guy because you never see him in anything else. He died fairly young. He's I believe in exorcist three. Really? Which I'm curious to see how that happens. But yeah, it's not like Jaws where that act Roy Scheider exists in other movies. No that's kind And you know Max Von Sit on, you know, Alllen Burston, but right. So the story of his involvement in this is that Stacey Kech was cast in this role. and then Friedkin saw Jason Miller's play that he wrote believe directed, maybe even acted in He must have been acting in it that championship season, which is also a play that was always throwing around when I was in at theater school But I never put it together. this was him. sent him the script and he never read it. And then the production went on, and he finally read it and called Friedkin and said, I gotta do this part. And he flew out to L.A on his own dime to screen test. Wow And they had to let Stacy Geach go. Wha, I know So if he hadn't like paid his own way out to screen test, Yeah, it see Kich would be in this like And he is so good. He's just so Oh yeah engaging and Yeah, his face whether deliberate or not is like statute like Rigious shaped Well he'sazzu shaped too. He's got these like cheekbones and he's got something an ey line Roman nose. Yeah. The Pazzu statue head is funny because it's just just one degree away from like a Mario Brrosers eight bit video game boss, you know, or something like that. It's almost comical. Yeah. shoot three pellets in its center, that goes away, then it drops and then you have an easy way to shoot three pellets into its eyes and then it's dead. Yeah, he's amazing in the part. and if it right He gets to just kind of exist as the priest in this. Maximon Sid was forty four years old in this, which is a real testament to U Dick Smith and Rick Baker doing the makeup on this, but in seventy three I swear, the only time I doubt Sidow's age because he's such a good actor too, the way he carries himself is in certain scenes where you can see the lighting and it isn't even the Latex, it's just the powdery white. hair makeup I think, but otherwise it's so convincing. He' It's really just gold standard. He's one of those few actors and I would put Ian McDermott in this too, where you're so used to seeing because you've only known them from a young age kind of playing older people.. But you're always surprised they lived as long as they did because you think they were older. And it blows my mind that he's playing an eighty year old in this, but we saw him as recently as the Force Awakens Yes. sameame with Ian McDarmed play. And I had to register that strange brew came after the exorcist. So that was the same back on one side. I was like, Oh, that's acting and that's makeup work, man. L Dick Smith, I mean, yeah, in all the makeup effects he pulled off. the old age stuff is like extraordinary Um But then The demoniz demonization, the demonizing of Um I mean, if you're a monster makeup pound Exorcist is sort of like The thing is probably the best, and just in terms of mostost bang for your buck But like with this, it's u to see how it progresses is like so cool. Like she could have been at this full exercise state by the time Uh, uh, Caris first goes and visits her, but to have it be, like each time they come back, it's more like progressed further. If you were to expect this, you're like, I get to be the star. L the makeup is like the star for the last like hour of the movie. The only thing that just gives me any hesitation and it's hindsight, it's not the movie's fault is the vomit because it's so green that it just reminds me of the Nickelodeon gax. It looks like It's so green and thick and The priest is like, I didn't say I don't know Oh God,ice. What am I Ross? the stagehand of getting that on television? I heard that. That's what voice comes out of Regan. Oh we should also talk about Mercedes what's her last name? The woman that plays the voice Yeah of Puzuzu who I guess was a lifelong alcoholic and for this was like, well, I need to destroy my voice. A, I'm going back into the bottle and Fried can kind of encouraged her.am was on the way. sober yeah. Oh my God. And I guess was quite a character. and she didn't There There's been some real controversy and I can't really get a clear sense of what's what with both Eileen Deets and Mercedes, forive me, I forget her last name, notot being credited at first, but then wanting to be credited later I think once the movie got its popularity Yeah, u No No more cooks then with the success, huh? that's when we find out a lot of chefs came in and made that soup I loved. Yeah. The pea soup. Yeah, the split pea soup. That soup. yeah, the puke is very like I mean, the thing that kept me until high school before I bared down and like watched Not so much anymore, but I really don't like vomiting in movies. And when I was a kid, I would feel like gross out, yes, but also like tricked I didn't know throwing up was gonna happen in this movie. You trick me movie. I don't like you movie. And so I knew I mean, the Berbs has a shot of Reagan puking on the TV U so I that's how I first saw the exorcism. It was like on the TV and the burbs. And I was like, oh, there's puking in that Hm. And then now you watch it and it is like it's funny. I didn't I was going to say when I re watchatched it, I was in the grips. But for me, this particular when I rewatched it The last half hour, like the showdown stuff was fun Yeah. Like I was scared Yeah. but I was like it was like a ride or I'm having like Really, it's like a rock show. It's like a stage show. It is. Like's a stun spectacular. Yeah, you can tell that it's like It'd be like if you went to an Alice Cooper show, which is like first the songs, then the stage starts moving, the bed starts like rocking. And then there's like smoke. And lasers and lights. I mean, that part where she's like, I think when the devil leaves her or something, when she's like up arched, it looks like, you know, and like A stage light comes up in the act, you know, the performer when they start saying The devil compels you what it Power of Christ compose. Power of Christ compels yourist compose you. That's like an audience chanting encore Yeah. Even to the point or chanting a log with a song saying the man's name, even to the point where by the end, they kind of do that big where they start don't know if they should taper off. Yeah. then they do a little bit then they can't tell if it's the actors or the characters. Yeah So that last half hour is like ride, concert. This is William Frekon is like, I got to compete with like Rock concerts now. I'm gonna bring this like cool spectacle. U and not to the movie's detriment But it was up until the crucifixion scene where I was like really in the movie's grips in terms of dread And honestly, that scene was so, I mean, I've seen it before, but it and it's always been, you know Starling But like For me in terms of the movies like What it could Um outrage me because it's what could scandalize me or what could like Cutch my pearls or whatever you That makes it sound like I was against it. I'm not. like the crucifixion seed is like Oh But after that, I kind of felt like, oh, the movie doesn't ever reach that level again. It is then just kind of like projectile practical. So it's not that scary. It's like ooh, the idea of the crucifixion thing is like In life, obviously, it's an insane thing. But like in a movie we were talking about before we started recording, I was like, can you think of any studio movie that has had the power to like scandalize people No, especially in seventy three. And I think another reason this movie hits so hard is Even though you were raised Catholic, I wasn't raised religious. We we had a different version of what the movie going audience of that time would have been raised in, even if you weren't religious, there was a forum and a understanding of like a biblical myth that was sac sacros sanct And so and sacred. Yes. and up the up ending of that, the shock value of it, the It must have just blown people away. I mean I just when I first saw this, like None of the blasphemy really registered with me. Now I understand it more culturally, but yeah Yeah, it crosses What for my count, four lines in movies. it's like, A sexually explicit Like it's hard in movies to show a woman masturbate like, you know, especially in this country. Yes, right. So it crosses sex. It crosses violence because it's like blood. Oh it crosses Yeah. what you were saying, like religion which's like Still to this day, good luck making like a Jesus joke on like primeime TV L it's still like you're like, wow, sex Violence Uh The sacrilegious And then The one thing still pre post psycho, you still hold sacred as like Movies aren't gonna fuck with like kids. They're not gonna do something horrible to a kid or you're not gonna have to W it like And then it's a Child. Yeah I can't imagine seeing the theatater seen four lines like crossed in Ten seconds I would love to go back with back in time and see it without my current understanding. the time frame mode of the timefame. Oh yeah, amazing. T not see it where you first saw it as like A spoof on Saturday Night Live with Richard Pryor where it's already been me. Yeah. And my parents saying, her head spins around. Yeah yeah. I mean, the along with the lore of like on the playground of kids saying, you know, don't don't watch it or you'll go insane was like And as a kid it was like a Like I would have the little quarter and I could put in the jukebox so my parents would tell this story. which would be like, So what about the time you guys saw the exorcist? They' like, well, rememinds me. I'm gonna ask my mom next time I see her what? ' I know she's told me before, but I was young and I want to Well, my parents too, you know, Catholics, raised Catholic my Dad has passed away, but he died, you know, a devout Catholic. My mom is living as a devout Catholic. So they the story they told was that like they saw in a matinee Uh And when they left the theater, it was still daylight And as they drove home in daylight, they were terrified.. Like that was the impact it had on those. So that was also part of the like, oh my God, this movie must be so scary if it could like scare you in daylight. But then my mom read the book in order she would hope that maybe It would give context in a way then that she could like work through the she said it made of word, it was scary or something. I kind of wantan to read the book, but I always read at night by myself in the dark and you know, Amanda's asleep Well, now you have two kids, so there's no possibility. The devil only possesses one kid. Only child. On children. Well, why do you think Yeahah, so it's the Ouija board invites Captain Howuddi in was let's say that maybe, but also like It's interesting that the mother daughter relationship is so close and communicative. So they don't like the movie doesn't or the book doesn't lay it at the feet of like Well, when mother and daughter have a schism Escuse him, the the devil. It invites a door for him to come like they're like tight and close. Yeah, they're good. So then you kind of go is This would be the movie's conservative agenda or whatever O a metaphor for this trauma of divorce too. there's a lot And then there's a strong stronger maybe even case to be made of no, it's random. It's you don't get to choose. the devil will go to the I don't know. I think that's where the movie like ends up at. Like that's what I thought too. was sort of like they're more trying to like Even if she's an actor, which is not a job everybody has, it almost even maybe underlines like this could happen to anybody. Yeah, even if it' likeity thing. Yeah. It is ' she's friends with the Catholic church. Is she even Catholic herself? I don't know. Wh she's a No, but yeah, when she hears she has a curiosity about the priests before. so it's not like No, at that scene, she's asked Do you believe? and does your daughter believe? She says no Yeah, which like u It doesn't, the movie doesn't seem to suggest at all that like there was some sort of lapse in morality that like caused this. So I'm so curious to see where these sequels go. I know the second one is much derided. But it's Linda Blair. So ye they aren't out of the water yet. This is like Jaws is coming back to Amityville. Is it Pazuzzu? What's going to happen? We got Richard Burton. maybe the most looking forward to this movie in a weird way because I've heard it's so bad and so strange. Yeah I'm excited about three. I'm excited about all of them. I'm not even trying to wrap this up. I No yeah. I'm just curious. I want to talk about score Tubular Bells by Mike Oldfield.es. whichich I was just watching for another podcast, I was watching a documentary on Prag Rock and I never realized Mike Oldfield was a. Pg rock musician and a reclusive one at that And so he wrote this. this was a big music hit and it was used for the film. Whoa, when did he write this? And not long before. Holy, I never knew this was story of just music. It wasn't written for the movie But also I just imagine it was like a needle drop of like a weird eighteenth century. No, it's a newer composition. And then when you see it first used when Een Burerson's walking down the street with the fall leaves in Georgetown and Yeah. You see how much of Halloween's DNA is in this to the point like when you watch Dune, you go, oh my God, Star Wars Do we need to slap a lawsuit on this? And similarly with Halloween where you just Yes, Matt. I thought this and when she was walking down that street and the b a cold wind to Jamie Lee Curtis, who also, by the way, was att least asked to audition if not offer the role of Reagan, but her mom turned it down. Interesting. Yes, yeah. I mean the Right. I was just gonna when you brought up tubular Bells, I was like, do you think in a world with no tubular bells does John Carpenter not write the Halloween theme and I don't think so. No, I don't think so at all. U That's cool though. They should do like a mashup This movie also a plus for children's drawings and children's art. W to go. W to go. Well done, well done. I have or had the exact Re to real real player that Father Karis uses in this And I wish it Don't know if I still have it But I wish I still did and that microphone and that case over there is the microphone Same exact Oh my go. Who and sack. So did you just have this like response, just hearing the button being buttons being pushed down? You're like, o, the memories of plastic buttons. Yeah. Yeah, I love that part where he has to like record for proof and stuff. I was kind think it was like a likeike your college essay to try to get into the college Oh yeah. he's tryed to like get the exorcist, get the church to get him exorcist. like, hey, I'm trying to get ask the board to like accept me into your college because the way he like addds in the holy water During the recording and her going, oh. It's like it's him being like Holy water, H? Come on guys,' your holy water. That's your holy water working for us. So come on, come on down. let's check this out. But also when he's playing the recording and people are listening to it, did you notice? there's like one part where it kind of does hit like a little Pavaradi feeling. Perry Sandler esque. But I was imagining when the person plays it, it also sounded sort of like a New wave demo. Like if you were playing up for your buddy, was like check this. I was like, G boring. And the guy's like, yeah, it's great. That's cool man. Right. So you thinking about going back to college? Finishhing get that degree. No, man, I'm thinking I think I really I think we're really heading somewhere with this. Two college references in room there no Yeah. Oh no, I gotta get back to school, man. He, it's my kid They gotem fucking taking towels from the swimming team, eh? I don't like that shit Rody Rodney Dangerfield without the wit. Fucking they bost my kid around. I gotta go over there and show 'em what's up. They moved into the Gaza street The Gaza Strip Can you believe this I've That's not a good. I'm Jackie Mason apparently. Jackie Mason is my favorite star of Caddy Shack too. Well, okay. I he you that. Did you yeah, the u So now his tubular bells like that guy's big hit, huh? But he's recluse. Mike Oldfield. Yeah, I guess he had a lot of fame his way and he kind of didn't want he just wanted to make the music. This is what I learned from the documentary Hm Uh I mean, uh I hope he's Do remixes and stuff of it like the kind of like is somebody who Th doesn't Chubby check are always kind of like with a new version of the twist eachge does if it was like a R right Jangular bells, radical bells, gnarly bells, Gnarly bells. Rat bells. Yeah, the exports the X ges presents gnarly bells, fire bells I was surprised when you see the shot of Max Foncido arriving at the house and the iconic shot that Brndley points out in his research is also seems to be based on a painting And it's the poster the movie does not linger. Like they had to just take a quick frame of that. You don't get we all know it from the post The movie doesn't know it yet. And so it's not it's not it's not a moment. It's just He stands there for a split second and that shot's over. I expected they would really linger at it. I love the Bvity of that whole sequence. It goes from him. and walking in the woods. And like somebody comes up to him and gives him a note dissolves to eyes thenen it dissolves to him pulling up Yeah, which is another famous shot movie that And then it goes to her eyes and he's there. Yeah. likeike In twenty the length of a TV commercial, you get that they reached out to him, get it he came, he's good. And then it's awesome because then when he gets there and he was like, do you want to know details of the case? He's like, what's the point? I don knowt. It's like, that's how we feel too. It's like yeah just he's like she's possessed. I don't know there's nothing And I could see how yeah, these prequels or whatever, the spinoffs, there would be great interest in The movie really leaves it open to what Backs of O Sido was up to and doing and so Well that's what's going to be really curious when we get to Paul Schradder's and Renny Harlan's versions because they're prequels, right? Right. It's like what He was up to before before this movielays Max von Sitau. U Junior Von Sida Minimalist von Saido. Mini M what I don't The power of Christ compels you I mean the power of grass compels you Could you give me a ride home? I am not yet old enough to drive Yeah, the uh u Wait, why were we talking about Little Maxbon Side out? Who plays him in the sequel? The pre? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. L what's the story there? Jake Lloyd. Uh, because Right. Maybe he's not even in this sequel. I don't know. that character. Whats that character's name Father Mirin. Mirin. But Maxonido, you mean? Yeah, yeah It's interesting because the book came out in nineteen seventy one. The movie seventy three So when they say They're like, well, where is Matt F, Where can we find him? And they're like, he's retired. The priest is retired in woodstock. It's like, that's like where Bob Dylan was like retired in like the late sixties, you know, That's like why they did love to get around,? So it's so amazing that like Father Mar is just like down the street from Bob Dylan. I also like to imagine that in the beginning of the movie when they're opening the when they're Breaking the caves down and stuff and digging holes. Like if they came by like thirty five years later, came by like the Well of Souls. Oh yeah And they find like U Marion's like shoe that the snake went through? Oh wait, hold on. we gota linger on this for a second Even though the exorcist came out before Raiders lost Arc. No, chronologically, you're right. It' in film in moovieland where we live. but they're in Raiders is they are. That's okay. Oh man. that's okay It'd be cool if you looked in raaiders and saw a little Pazoozoo because if the pazoozoo like can travel around little Pazzoo. Yeah, little Pazzoo's pedals. That's something Is that a band or something? Did I make? I always wonder if I don't think I I think I thought of it independently, but I' since looked up that Pazoozoo's pedals is something else Pazuzu's obviously a portmanteau of Zuzu's pedals. from's a wonderful life and then Pazuzu to look that up. I wouldt An what a Great iteration. Pazzoo petals. Yeah. I mean Better than Zuzu's pedals, which has no alliteration. Sorry. Somebody finally said it not coming up in a Google search. Really, Matt. I got a oh, we're starting a band. Wow Oh, Mary, Mary, I'm rocking about. I'm a Bzoooo's paddals, baby? Well Oh no Hmm Zeus Petals No, even that Wow, okay. Hell yeah, dude Don' donon't anybody take that. I gott to do something with it. Yes, you do I don't know what. Even if it's a song or a book. or a prayer U Matt, what do you think about the two Williams G got two Billies behind this. Billy Freakkom and Billy Peter Blady. Billy Bladdy. Billy Bladdy. Yeah. and Yeah, Yeah. when you see the credits come up, aren't you a little like, hey it is I didn William Yeah' crazy. What are you going to have a score by William Eilish I'm out of notes. It does feel like Epics though, if you wanted to be an epic You got to like be in like different continents this time period. like it's kind of I was David Lan style first saw this that it starts in Iraq. Yeah. and like how in the gofather, you know, that little jag to like Italy he does Yeah. Like a movie doesn't feel like got sweeping in geography. Absolutely. Yeah Jump in geography. Re U yeah, just getting to see all those people working makes me believe it's the same as like the with the medical technicians do later and what the priests do later. It all looks like so u Documentaring makes it seem like it's like handheld and veritee ' it's not that, but it just seems like it's like a it does feel kind of captuuring. Verite though. Yeah. The movie does The u, u Do you just looking over my notes here. Oh So the Pazuzoo, right? U mostost of the stuff we've already talked about, but U, not just with Bazzu but everything, but the um The different version, we watched the original in the new version, they added some more pazuzoo faces as.. There's one that I distinctly remember from the first time I saw when she's walking through the kitchen and I think it's on the hood of the range that it flashes there or something near the oven or stove or whatever. Yeah There's of course the famous backwards spider crawl down the stairs that the stunt girl did it. Yeah. That was very controversial because No one knew if it really existed and even Blady said, I mean, Friedin said they never filmed it. Whoa. And then Mark Kermod found it in a Warner Brothers vault. Wow. And they bur stored it ye. And it happens during the when she's peeing at the party? The dinner party? Oh, I think it's later. I could be wrong. It would have to be That would be two huge things. Oh, she walked down the stairs backwards like a spider and pee. Maybe I'm wrong though. O re The reason they didn't put it in is because she had a safety harness, even though the stunt actress didn't need it And they just you could see the wires. So it wasn't until two thousand when they could remove them digitally that they put it in. Oh, okay I thought it was like a um Like a jump the shark like they felt like or two was a lot too too soon. Yeah, a lot too too much too soon. Yeah. Yeah. Somebody had too much too fast, you know Hm Grateful deead so. No. what is it? Shakedown street. It's like their' little disco Oh Dco dead. Okay. because I saw a Pazuzu face not the kind that the movie entered, but it just in a Oh, it looks like it. That homeless guy, the guy who's asking for change might definitely going for something with his eyes and stuff there for sure. So what he's like Come on, give me some money. You can like to think that's the devil. likeike and what his position, if he's like, What he's on the battling with is like Is the world worth saving The fact that the devil would take like the sign of like somebody asking for change to kind of like provoke him is like little crafy of the devil. The u It is funny how long the movie takes before they suuggest psychiatry? I know. And even then what it happens is they're like resigned like, okay, we've done two MRIs and a spinal tap. I guess it's fine to now take her to the psychiatrist I know have they already suggested electrode shock there? Yeah this point too because I don't know How much Casual psychiatry, for lack of a better term, there was instead of institutional psychiatry back then I have no idea. I mean I'm sure there was some, but you're right, Also drugs back then, what did they have them on lithium? They mentioned Ridlin, I thinkes to and now. I mean, I think if a kid witnessed a murder in nineteen seventy three, they would have somebody there to like talk to the Yeah, but that's psychology, right? Or Yeah I guess psychiatry. Well, yeah, I know. Like they would be like Well This is like the uh And I'm saying this as tasteful as I can be When I was watching it, I did think like And I went and read online and somebody shared like a perspective that was really who's seen the movie, read the book that I thought was really well said and I'll read it, but it was like, u The way Reagan is behaving you A you would Not even in twenty twenty six, but I think in twenty seenty, you would Bring a psychiatrist in Yeah, for sure. And if that child was doing sexually explicit things and behaviors Your first thought would be this child's being sexually abused. Yeah. you know, with what she's saying and behaving, but then also like urinating in front of a group of people. That would be like a child's way of Like Something's going on at this house. I don't know how to say it. Yeah. I'm doing it this. I know. So it's And then when the um I I am The director friend, which is just kind of a weird part of the movie, the Denning's guy. Burk Yeah. Bk. that he's the one who falls out her window and dies, but like, N a flaw of the movie, it's just interesting that it's like it is all off screen. You don't You just hear later that that all happened. You don't see him even at the house watching her Yeah You don't and she's the one that they're talking about. Do you like him? Would he not as much as your dad? It's you know, like Yeah, he's a potential interloper in their relationship and but you get no scene. where he's there at the house with them as a like a domestic space and the movie tries to explain it by being like Well, they don't because they say he's around a lot So in a movie like this, you would think like Oh, you'd have maybe in a conventional movie, you would just Eestablish he's around sometimes. He's kind of like a surrogate dad. And then its skipped over so quickly, but it's like She comes back to the nanny and the nanny's like, I had to step out. so I asked Burke to watch And and Burston's like, oh my God, Burke, what are you thinkin? and you really did that And so You're like, okay, so it was weird that Burke was babysitting Yes, it was weird as an audience member, imagine D Burke who is this drunk like And then this is like I hate these kind of like fan theories things, but I did think like In the book as Burke like Ausing her I know, I am curious to read the book because this idea of like the mom being like, you left her with Burke And then There's this thing that she's acting now anyway. Pe have brought this up. Yeah. And somebody wrote online I thought a very thoughtful response to Ething I just said, I'll read a realick H on Reddit I'm not sure about Burke specifically. In the novel at least, it suggested that he only went up to her room because he heard a commotion. But it has always struck me as odd that this isn't something the many many specialists she visits in both the novel and film at least raised as a possibility that she was being sexually abused. evenven if they ultimately ruled it out I'd imagine that the extreme sexual nature of her behavior would have immediately raised the possibility that someone was sexually abusing her. It would be one thing for a disturbed kid to let loose profanities she'd probably heard adults use countless times, but the kinds of inappropriate action performs would immediately raise a thousand red flags. This is the part that I thought was interesting The total emission is even oddder in the novel since so much space is dedicated to meticulously ruling out every possible non supernatural Uh uh u cause for her behavior except for the very obvious one So I think it's completely fair to see that as a subtext, whether or not it was intentional. That's fascinating. Yeah yeah I just googled the difference between the book and the movie book Bladdy did not wait to introduce the creepy in the Exorcist. from the first pages readers are set into a situation of steady, escalating tension and fear Whether it be the strange noises, moving furniture, Reagan speaking with Mr. Howdy or her sudden change in behavior, there is no question that something sinister is looking in thecN lurking in the McNeil house. That aside, Bladdy also does a decent job in establishing and developing the characters of Damen Karris and Detective Kinderman. Karris through his investigation into Reagan's situation and Kinderman through his dialogue and interaction with the other characters Readers see more of Kindermman and Bladdy's sequel, Legion. The one thing I did notice is that Bladdy recycled anecdotes in this book and the Exorcist three movie. I suppose he really liked the bathtub fish and the rabies bits, okay. The other thing that really stood out to me is how psychiatry was viewed in the text Chris McNeil asked multiple times if she should take Reagan to see a shrink and almost every time she was shot down by medical professionals shunning the practice. I just found the contrast between how mental health care is viewed today versus the avoidance of it almost fifty years ago But in the end, it was a Jesuit priest with a background in psychiatry and psychology that aest would trust with her daughter's everlasting soul It could only be Kars who like is modern and contemporary enough to be trained psychiatrist and also have faith as a Jesuit priest. Right. And a reluctant priest at that. Yes, it's key that in this movie he's like really most of the time skeptic. Yeah. ye Um, but uh It's also interesting, you know This is just a sad, dark coincidence, but I do wonder too, when Burke dies, they say in the movie like, oh the newspapers are thinking it has something to do with witchcraft. He was involved in witchcraft And I wondered if that's a reference to funny enough, Rosemary's baby that when after the Sharon Tate murders A European director Pro probably hated Nazis, like the director in this movie In the newspapers, there was a lot of speculation like, o, it's witchcraft related. Roman plant' into witchcra. So I just wondered that too, when Burke died, that I was like Now then just is kind of a weird coincidence the Oh was he a child abuser too, but I'm not laughing and then Id just be like, oh, then if that was Polansky, then what's the movie? but I yeah, the came later. so the weird Intentional, ambiguous and unintentional parallels of this movie to the Zeitgeist in real life in Hollywood at the time and beyond is crazy the cruising murdder is in the same movie that the director made seven years before that movie is wild Yeah. For a movie that's like satanic. I mean, like the devil's always been around, but I wondered the particular execution that this movie did that was so profound for people Is it like responsible for a lot of the satanic panic stuff? Like people saw this Oh, this is basically a documentary. This could And same with Rosemary's baby I'm sure. I'm just curious about The actual pazoozoo And it's history. Yeah Yusu is a major Mesopotamian demon. the king of wind, demons, and son of Hanpa who embodies both destructive and protective aspects. While bringing storms, famine, and pestilence, his fearsome image was used in amulets to drive away other evil forces, particularly the demoness Lamashtu In modern pop culture, popular culture, he's famous as the antigonist in the exorcist There willll always be no no So what did he do? He brought Storms and famine. Oh, Here's a better picture. I to guessy went over. He's always got his little Willie out Little Willie go home. As she can't? ake Willie. Willie won't go. The ye, Pazzu he's a You got a old ding Dong, huh? Yeah Aazuzu, God bless you. Um the u when Chris McNeil Shirley McLan goes up I didn't think I forgot that like The demon makes the candle go poof You know, Yeah, like flame. And then they never talk about that. Yeah, I forgot about like Uh that that happened. So she was walking around with a candlestick and a nightgun was like Where's your old nightcaap? I. And there's no birdcaage in the attic I said. Oh is Eileen Detzays. That is so scary As Pazzu. Live screamers, Matt just put up a picture of a pazuzu and it terrified me in that world of like, okay, it's not a conspiracy to scare them. It is the actual devil who's doing things. in that spirit, it's, so to speak. It's interesting that she Later, when she goes up to check on the attic, the scratching Now the scratching ain't rats Right. It's the devil And has this happened It has not happened before the It happened. The first scene you see her, she wakes up from scratching. and then the second time she hears it, she decides to go up. But We haven't been revealed that she's been playing with the Ouija board yet, but we know when she reveals it that she's been playing with it previously. so. Yes. right, right So when she goes up, She does find the weird handyan there in the attic. No, he's just peicking up he's had come he followed Oh. Okaykay, I'm so dumb That helps. Thankk you. Thankk you. If this makes you feel better, here's Pazzuzu with a fully erect Bazzoo What do you think the differences between he's always got inter? Look at So Pazzo always has this one's just sticking straight out. Jeezuzo. come on, man. Tell the time off that one that's a snake around it? Yeah. The snake is around always around it. E one. I feel like this one it is a snake Pazzoo's snake penis. Oh my Godd Oh Imagining that thing like, you know, when a snake loses itss like scale skin like immagining posuz his penis every little like skin and you can peel up. He's got his own natural condom No I The u Whenin win, whenin u u um You mentioned that you would w to be at the party. Yes, for sure. Matt I just I don't think I've been to one and that's not like the movies lie. likeike I know they exist in real life. I want to be at a party with somebody at a piano we're all sing beatles songs or And it's gott to be the right person though. because there's plenty of parties where someone gets a guitar out and it's all the wrong. It's weird. the guitar has kind of And I've had those nights and those are really fun. Like somebody knows all the chords to fun songs. We're all singing along But not a Not a piano. That seems one or two ' back in the old improv days, we had piano accompaniment and they could play anything. It was amazing. Yeah. That's great. So like what the audience would leave and you guys would like maybe stick around and have some laughs. No, at a house party. Oh fun. Yeah. Yeah. An't the Parties after opening night, really fun. when youre doing a play. Of course, yeah. pressures or you know,. Hey, we're still doing the play. We can't go the nerves, the nerves. It's proof of concept. It's done. Yes, yes. Yeah. when I was in high school and we performed at the community theater, there was an actress who was like probablyro only fifteen years older than us, but at the time, you know, she was fifty years older than us, but we found a picture. she went to our high school and we found a picture of her earbook singing a Hit me with your best shot. It said like so and so is hitting them with their best shot. We' like we saw this in the earbook. She's like, yes, I s it to a talent show.' like, you gott to sing it for us and Rick got like the she my friendsick the sheet music and stuff. And we were like seeing it sing. She's like, no, no, no, I'm not going to And then we're like,. And then the party of opening night, we were at a house and people were like, come, come, come. And somebody's on the piano and starts playing. Hit me with your best shot. She sings it.. Oh, that's the greatest. Oh my God Last little thoughts here. Oh In terms of the formula of what we're going to see, I imagine that we're going to see some more creepy dreams in the exxorcist. There's only kind of one here and it was really cool when he's like in the street and he sees his bom here the subway. that's good. But if we're keeping track of how this formula is like coming together, I think we might want to keep an eye on like Oh, right I've never seen part two or three. so I don't know. I could be full shit. had I've never seen four. Yeah. so I would going blind in all of these. I'm just saying my hunch and my love for franchises, particularly poor franchises tells me that this is a thing that movies sequels really start to rely on Yeah. And it's interesting that Bladdy's first screenplay was full of flashbacks and dreams and Friedin said, no, no, no go back b make it just like the book. and interesteresting. ye. The u Mm Yeah, the thing of cruising, of course, of course. I do like how the Demon seems to sort of operate based on like people in the house or not because like when Reagan comes down and pees And then everybody leaves That's the first time that the mom sees the bed move And it's almost like the demon is like this teenager. who was like, try to ruin your party What? I didn't get in trouble. Okay, then I'm jumping on the des. Same thing with when he opens the drawer and Karis goes, couldould you do that again? In time. Yeah. Oh you'd Cetul asshole. But I also it raised a sort of more theoretical or whatever or I don't know. this theological like When the detective comes to visit, U the Chris. Yeah He's there trying to find out Did your daughter or was there something fishy about Burke, how he died And the kind of suspense in it is like, is she gonna say my daughter is s thatess right now and she's upstairs and she's trying to just get him out. And I noticed like before the crucifixion scene is like the nicest moment in the movie where they the two characters literally say like, I like you.ice you're a nice person. He's like you're a nice person too. And I was like this movie's being too soft right now. Like it's gonna bludgeon me. But that he It isn't until he leaves the house that the demon then starts making noises and stuff. and it's like Does the and I'm not getting frog? Yes, yes. is the ooh, that's interesting that it's to torment Im family. Yeah. I thought it could also be like Does the does the devil in some way have to recognize like the law? And like If he makes a noise and the detective comes up and is like, something's weird about this. Well, then Reagan goes away. She leaves the house Somebody else has her hooks. like is it a better way to just be like, Yeahah, gotta keep it quiet until the detective leaves and, okay, that he's got and I could be loud and interesting Or is he angry that the detective was there? and that's why the crucif also begs the question of the aftermath of this movie. This often happens in films where We talked about it in some film before I can't remember, but Father Karis throws himself out the window Father Mirin is dead h Lee J Cobb shows up at the end But he's still to see no evidence of supernatural anything, spiritual, anything. So He has to treat this like homicide or a crime scene or something, right? And so what's the aftermath of this both with arrests Court You know like, there's going to be a Yes, becauseirinirin did he die? He did die. yeah. So he had a heart attack he died. But they would be like, so what the fuck happened here? Like Priest had a heart attack and then the other one threw himself out the window. L because your daughter was possessed, but she's okay now and she doesn't remember anything. Yeah. So you would probably point to Chris is the murerer of all these people. I was the only person saying this shit happened. Well, we haven't se the sequel. Maybe it's a two hour courtroom drama about her G it to me Now you say you were in the fooyer during the time of this so called hold on. I Now the audience of the court, particularly the men and the women of the jury will take a look at my poor little client Chris, but she's really just a standing for sad defenseless little erect penile pazzu. Oh, is it up? It is up and there's a serpent tangled around it. Mbe put that away. it's just not a good look here in God's Ct Okay, well, arrest your case I put your erection down. I think Of all the monsters sitting in a courtroom, Pazzzo was the funniest to imagine sitting at like that defense table. And Your Honor, and ladies and gentlemen of the jury, Pazzuz who was of a certain age and had to take a certain amount of male stimulant viagra and suffers from the longer than a four hour erection. So not only is he innocent, but the poor guy can get his Heck a wood soft. Stop sitting up from the table. you're banging on the underside. Okay, but you really do inhabit a character that when you were playing the southern lawyer there, there's many euphemisms for Petus. and you went with Peckerwood, which is like character specific. That's good. I love it. Id love any time he comes and makes appearance. I'm gonna say this like Who's the inside of the actor studio host? Yeah James Lifton James Lifton. I'm gonna to do like a James Lifted thing Southern's Lwer Can you join us for the next episode? I would be so Id like that. Have you seen that cringe thing where the Simpsons like voice actors do it inside the actress studio And so like he's like Excuse me. Pomer. Oh, it is like yees. It's like Can we speak to home or now? but they don't have like Harvard writers writing the material, so it's like. Yes, I just came back from the radioactive plant. I mean said Cin seems like a very sharp is.. I should have pickedber there I should have picked something. Oh gosh, how did I get into acting? Let me see. I just we have my perackass. That's hard Oh yes, that's very might. Yes. Every season I tried to make my hair a little taller. Okay. Fascinating. Oh, now can we please talk to Mr. Burns in my favorite? Also the little You talking about the kind of weird constellation of like these people's lives and the crime scene and stuff The movie You know, uh As classic as exorcist is There's a reason why Jaws is maybe more now remembered as like the big seventies thrill ride because I think there's some stuff like this that's like not You know, Jaws is the like perfect screenplay. It's like written so like every scene just you're advancing There seems to be something with Peter Blati like adapting his own work that there's some stuff that If a screenwriter came in, they would just kind of clear out. I feel like. And it's the one of the things is like That, uh Karris knowns the detective And they have their scene where they meet up. The detective comes to the CS and he's like, I don't want to talk to you. The detective talks to U Chris, the mom They have their own thing Even though Tarris and Chris are kind of aware of each other before then And without any sort of like the detective telling the priest or the priest talking to the detective or anything Priest eventually goes and meets with U. U Chris. Yeah. And maybe it's like somebody recommends somebody. It seems like that kind of happens off screen Yeah, But it just says someone referred herurt to him It's just a weird like F do? non streamlining that like Harris never knows that the detective is talking to Chris and Chris doesn't know that the detective was talking to Karis, the whole detective dropped from I think so too. Iirely. I think it's like a seventies kind of like I get There French connection sort of has more in in the book because it is not You don't either. I mean, you would in real life that there would be a investigation on the fall and the death, but it factors into the story in no consequential way. she could have Not to say that the detective even is the connection. The movie goes you know, doesn't say that. Be you She would the power of her like always kind of like, what's up with him? He seems really involved and people are telling this story about him. Oh yeah, he's like an amazing priest. He just lost his mom and then you kind of become like Interested in who this priest is, and then finally you have this kind of like spiritual thing. you're like, well I hear this priest is great. You just make it kind of like a cool little ye, the two hander. All you get is his wife won't go to movies with him. the u Fighting the figuring at the steps. Oh, when she sees that big team of doctors around the table, I do like that the doctor smokes so much in the hospital, like that's such an old buddy for the time. I was hoping that that room with all those doctors around the table, they'd all be smoking. everybody. U the um B. The Yeahah, whatever that formula is of like going to the priest to ask him, willill you come and see my daughter and be like, okay, I will Just seeing how that'll be in other exorcism movies that we ever watch. but Also, it is funny to imagine, like she's a movie star.ight. And she's asking him like, can you please do this for me? Bat my eyes pretty please? Like it is a little bit if like a priest today was like Jennifer Lawrence was like, I know. It is Hey do this for me. He's like, Yeah, of course. Yeah. in the name of God You bet U,, but the u Yeah, and then I guess the last all the stuff that comes out in the end here. The Foreign language stuff that uh devil wouldn't maybe a demon wouldn't necessarily call itself the deevil. But then Max Vonsid was like, no, there is only one. like you gott to trust this. L when a person says they're the devil, you gott to, you know believe them or whatever. Um But then like, I mean, there's just so many, u great things like the Help M being written on. I mean just so many classic moments But Matt, I gotta imagine you gotta love some priest mission prep, buddy. Oh yeah. Oh yeah, getting the holy water out and putting on the vestments. Oh my God, it's beautiful. Yeah Would you join the priesthood just so you could do an exorcism mission prep? Sure I mean, I'll be right there with you. Okay. But the u Haris going in alone And him hearing His mom speak to him. I guess that suggests the devil does like know all. like he sees all and knows all. And that was his proof that Reagan was possessed because ye, he was talking about his mom. But that the devil can do like impression. I know And also. Well, Hell Hey Reagan, this is also Reagan. like then it would have been. I am not at de all. Yeah. Well, we got a really big we' got a big position, Jim mean, a really big shoe H Uh and then u U I'm surprised that with two priests, they don't do kind of like a good priest, bad priest thing. They're both like, it's really one, no nonsense and one, let's explore a little bit more here. But I thought Yeah, seen u This is the first time I appreciate that you are watching the exorcism through Karas's eyes. as like he's slowly like It isn't just for spectacle. they're not just trying to gross out the audience. It is like you're watching somebody have a religious experience. Absolutely. It makes it great. Yeah. Well, I know you gott to get going. So what do we want to rank this baby I'm out of thirteen. I'll give it a thirteen. Me too, the devil's number. six six So the unlucky thirteen. Double thirteens for the Eorcist. We'll be back with the Eorcist to the heretic. The heretic with D and Linda Blair Uh this why do I alwaysm want to say Linda Parl? Who's Linda Par U Blire. Blair Linda Um, It's Linda Blair, right? Linda Blair. Oh yeah.kay, am I doing Linda? Blair U, Blair from Facts of Life. Yeah. Right? am I Ma Welcho pase Regan Well, Matdty, fun talking off to a good season. Thank. Thanks everybody. Bye bye. For more Gorle and Rust content, head over to patreon dot com slash with Gorly and Rust to get episodes ad free and a whole week early. Plus monthly mailbag episodes and feature length watch along film commentaries of your favorite horror classics. That's patreon dot com slash with Gorley and Rust. Email us at withgorleand Rust at gmail dot com and your questions might be featured on a future mailbag episode. With Gorlely and Rust theme song by me, Mat Woo, and performed by Townland. You can find us on Instagram as Townland Band, as well as Paul's fantastic band at Don't Stop or Will Duie And why not rate and review with Gorle and Rust on Apple Podcasts? 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