Philosophy and the Meaning of Life

Lemonour You made it weird with meet Holes. What's happening, weirdos? This is Dan Mintz. I've known Dan for decades and you may know him as Tina Belcher on Bob's Burgers, which he is brilliant. He's also a brilliant writer who's written on so many amazing shows. We talk about that. We also talk about his new special, which is called Well rounded Entertainer. Dan Mintz, well rounded Entertertainer and it is on YouTube and it comes out. If you're listening to this the day drop comes out tomorrow. It comes out on june eighteenth. He is so funny and the special is so unique. It is animated, which suits his style perfectly. But really the best thing about is the joke writing and his signature sort of Deadpan delivery. I guess it's not really Deadpan. It's fllat and hilarious. Flat and hilarious So check out Dan Mintz, follow him on all the things and we're so glad you're here. There's not much for me to plug up top This is my spepeaking of Animated. This is my kids book, spepells to Cast on Y parents, which I did the art for. I would open it. This is just a dummy copy When I have the real copy, I'll open it for you and show it to you. but I did the art and I'm very, very pleased with it. Obviously, it's a kids book. It's perfect for all the children in your life. And also my tour. I'm on tour, the Pete Holomes Pete Holmes. Pete Holmes. com I'm not going to go through all the cities, but there are a lot of cities. Chances are I'm coming to a town near you. So go to pethomes. com and thank you to everybody that came out. Also silly silly fun boy and I'm notot for everyone are two full length comedy specials that I just uploaded to YouTube. Hope you can check those out I'm very proud of both of them. In the meantime, enjoy my chat with my friend, the wonderful Dan Mintz Get into it When twelve year old Julel stumbles into a time machine, an unexpected journey begins Turns out, our planet looks different in the year twenty one hundred Cyclones, poison tides, and LGOs for breakfast But how do we get here Can we turn back the clock That's up to you Pl it safe or risk it all as a member of the Midnight Rebellion, available wherever you listen. I'm Husin Minhaj and I have been lying to you. I only pretended to be a comedian so I could trick important people into coming on my podcast, Hussin Minhaj doesnn't Kn to ask them the tough questions that real journalists are way too afraid to ask. People like Senator Elizabeth Warren. Is America too dumb for democracy? Outrageous. Parenting expert doctor Becky How do you skip consequences without raising a psychopath? That's a good question. And astrophysicist Neil Degrras Tyson. I have never done drugs ever in my life. Okay. You mustt? No. Okay. we love to have you. Listen to Husa Minaj Do doesn't knowr from Lemenadea Media, wherever you get your podcasts Dan Mint. Hi. The new spepecial animated, It's not that kind of show. But we can say it Yeah The new special animated. It's wonderful. Great job. Thank you. Yeah, yeah. do you watch other people's specials and you're like This guy like wrote eight jokes. And're like I wrote three hundred and seventy six jokes. It does take longer for me to write an hour or. You know, technically, it maybe more closer to forty six minutes of ial Yeah. I'm not even saying that as a roast to you. I saw Mitch Hedberg when obviously years and years ago and after forty minutes, nobody one of the best to ever do it. and it's just so much Channel changing. It's too much. or let me ask you, do you feel that that's like a one liner comic shouldn't go an hour in twenty minutes? It's not Yeah, I mean, I don't I'm always trying to go what however much I'm doing, you know, I'm trying to do as short as I can get away. So if they say seven to ten, I'm like at seven o one, I'm out of there. Yeah say ten to twelve. So I kind of feel like For a special it's got to be at least forty five minutes. So I ended up with, I don't know these will drop those fifteen twenty. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, it's all all the rules are in my head. I mean, if I'm if I'm headlining, att a club, it's like exactly fifty minutes. Okay. I'll stop. I feel like Yeah, that sounds fair. I feel like a lot of clubs might go okay at forty five. It's your show. You can see wh you want. I mean, I'm always worried about them being mad at me, but you know No one's ever I don't know if anything officially says a time amount, but yeah in my head. that's Are you do you have notes on stage or is it like, I think we had Stephven Right on, which was awesome. Yeah. And I seem to remember he would find little ways to cluster them together Are you in ar school Yeah, I mean, I u no, I don't try Well, I don't, they're not actually thematically tied together at all. I mean, you try in your head to make up. So memory mnemonic device. Yeah, memory palace. Yeah, it definitely if I do that if, you know, I was just like on tour for a couple months and like by the end I pretty much had it memorized without really trying. It's it definitely is like U it yeah, I definitely don't always have memories. I always bring cards on stage to look down on and Yeah. I mean, it definitely It definitely is better if you don't. nototice me looking at that cards I mean, it's just a different type of set than it's like It's a difference between Like, I'm This suspension disbelief that there's this character that really. Well I actually meant that. It's like when Kevin Hart is on stage, she's like, I'm just your best friend. We're just messing around. I'm just telling you about my day. It just so happens to be hilarious. Yeah, that's not is different what I'm doing. No like coin magic Yeah, it is. Dan it's a little more like coin magic. I mean, you don't mean to deliberate. I'm not teasing. No, no, no. I mean It's also I noticed kind of early on like a lot of like everyone's a, you know advice for startaring is get up as much as possible. G, you know, one show two, three, five shows a night, whatever you can do. You guys have to get as possible. And I kind of realize I don't really have to do that because I think the reason comics have to constantly be on stage and the muscle you're constantly working is Is it exactly you say like trading that that illusion that this is just a casual conversation. Yeah, which it's so not. So it's like so hard to create that And if But for someone like me, it's more of a character. L I'm not trying to do a character. but it's more like presentational. Yeah. I don't do that at all. That's almost like the opposite of that. Yeah. So so the delivery side, if I go a long time without performing, I'm a little rusty and my time is a off, but it's basically after a couple of times fine Yeah. Most of the time prepare in your hotel room.? I mean, you know what I mean? You're not really trying to like surf the reaction as much as you're like, can I say this without fumbling it? Can I communicate this clearly? Can I remember the order that sort of stuff? Yeah. exactly. ye. That makes sense. Yeah. And how did that started Alaska? I No I started my life in Alaska when I was born. Oh, did you not do comy? I didn't do. Did you not do comedy there? No. I started in college.. I've only done a couple of times in Alaska. Did you start at the comedy studio Not my very first time. My very first time was like an open mic, but yeah, that was like the first was open m. ' I went to school in Cambridge as well. Oh cool. Grade school. I wonder if we went to the same school. The way you can't brag about it. Oh, I went to school in Cambridge. Gade schoolool ' you went to Harvard I That was my haunt. I know Harvard Square quite well. Oh cool. And the comp at MIT. I was at MIT. Yeah. I built a robot that took most of my classes for me. so I was mostly just loitering the what the pit? didid you guys call it the pit No. you know that where you get on the train, there'snd part. I feel like I've heard the word, but we didn't really peopleople callhe. whereere out of town news was. Yeah, ye. and formerly the tasty burger where goodw hunting was that was there we were there. No, nothing notothing was there. Ething was already like gentrified Really? Yeah. Oh yeah, I guess it did go away. while. Goodw hnting came out in like ninety nine something. All right sounds right, Bmer. Yeah. But I still we probably went to the same Newbry comics. I mean, that was there. Yeah You didn't go there I think it was I walk by it. So I know I remember it You didn't go to New Ray Comics? What a supreme bumper. That's all I have. All my notes we're just asking you things you remember about New Ray Comics But I do know the area and you and the comedy studio, Rick Jenkins Yeah was one of the places Yeah which is where Stehen Wright started Oh, I didn't know that. I know there was like catcher Rising star was there before our time. Oh really? Okay I didn't know about this there was the studio. Okay, I could be wrong. I'll be embarrassed if I'm wrong but I think The comedy studio was one of the places that sort of like folded in Stehen Wright in. I know it was amazing. Yeah, that sounds right. Yeah. And so where was your first openinging Dick Dy's Comedy Vault. No way. On route one. wasn't that on route one? On one? I mean, I think you might chain of places. That's a different one in like a Boston Cedy. Okay. And was that You tell me how it was because given your style, I've always been Frankly, to this day, Boston can intimidate me. Yeah. And like a guy like you, I could see going either way. like the thing they love more than anything Yeah. or like what is this? I mean, definitely did go either way from show to show. Yeah I mean, also you're starting out. so it's different. I did really well on my first set. really No better than the N few. Do you remember not any of those jokes U. I remember I I know I like And this was maybe why I did well because it's a little bit pandering, but I said it was like my first and I was just like, I don't go with it. even th know why I'm doing this. I'm like I don't like talking in front of crowds. I don't like making people laugh. I don't know why I'm here. And then I think I got them on my side. Yeah, but then and then it was good. And it was definitely like a a really amazing kind of experience, like life experience because I am like very uncomfortable with public speaking U And, you know, my I did like debate in high school and I was always like pretty good at like I felt like I had good ideas, but I was like very bad at like thinking on my feet and you know, wouldd be kind of stumbling through stuff. And I was like, finally it's like working for me Like I was so nervous and I was freezing up and like more awkward than I am notot on stage. Yeah, but is somehow like that worked for worked. Yeah. Yeah absolutely. I mean not We've been talking a lot about this lately. I don't know why But we had u Shen Wang on the show, which is talking about how there's a joke in to Mitch Chadberurg, for example, coming up he talks like a cool jazz musician, but he's like this white guy. Yeah. that is a joke. Yeah. there is kind of, well, tell me if you agree, a joke that a nervous guy who doesn't want to be the life of the party doesn really want to be the center of attention.' doing stand upp. That is funny. Yeah. I mean, I guess yeah, that's kind of what I'm That's what I have to go for becauseuse it's all I can do. Right. But But you probably didn't know that. I mean I imagine that's all hindsight. you go like, oh, it's funny that I'm doing that. You're just trying to do who stand up. Yeah. It's like when Paul Thomas Anderson made punch drunk love He wasn't trying to make a quirky romantic comedy. He's just trying to make a romantic comedy. Yeah. That's like I've heard that. Like he doesn't know that it's like considered a weird Yeah. He's like, that's just what that's I have I think that looks like. That's really funny. And that's like you So you went up. And the first time it went well. And I didn't mean to put you on the spot with your first joke. just sometimes it's so adrenalized Yeah the first laugh. Like I did the comedy studio. Bro. I got a laugh by accident, like it was during a setup And anyway before because the Spranos was big, I was like before the mafia What we had for organized crime really, was pirates. and everyone laughed really hard. And like I thought that was the setup. And then I went into this like awful routine about like instead of like, ye, I'm walking here. We had like it was like garbage But like it was such an awful feeling when you're starting comedy and you actually get what you want, but it wasn't for the reason you wanted. you weren't in control of it. you heard that it was possible. And you can't just be like just forget the last one minute and pretend I after the Right, Wht ye I was in an I was thinking about this yesterday. I was in an improv scene. with a bunch of pandas. Like it was the audience suggestion was like what animal and it was pandas. And everybody was going crazy and I was like, relax everybody. It's pandemonium But I didn't mean it It got this huge laugh and then I realized what had happened and I kind of gave this like Like ye like I did me like Yeah. What a horror that happenens's kind of is the best feeling. It's like finding twenty dollars in the ground. It's exactly the same feeling. Yeah. Except naughtier. Yeah. likeike somehow naughter. Like I really felt like I was getting away with something. So Dick Dord' And you you tell me about like overcoming because I also started the comedy connection in the comedy studio and I felt like that scene was so With respect to not Rick or anybody, nobody we know, but like a lot of those clubs were very coked up, very tough Comics had this like real more than it is now, but like, you know how Bill Burr, it's like, oh, how novel like a working guy that's like tough and ls weights and like knows how to like get in your face. I felt like everybody was Bill Burr. Yeah. I love Bill. I'm just saying I walked in This sweet khaked like, you know, corny guy I'm wondering what your experience like when you think about those early years, walking in, what did it take for you to do it? How did it feel to do it? Why did you do it I mean, well, first of all, I think I think in Boston, there's like two different scenes. There's the people that have been there forever and there's the like college students that are starting up There' so many starting out. There's so many colleges there. so I didn't really feel like I was like a fish out of water where it' all birs because there's a lot of other like people in kind of my boat. But yeah, I know I do remember, I mean, the interesting thing about about the first time that I went. it's like I mean, open Mic it was a Bringer show. I don't know if that's technically different from openen Mic, but it was it was anyone could do it. I saw commitment. Yeah. I think it's a different show because everyone's like risking it all for their five friends. Yeah. I mean this was like so this to bring a showide, but you know, I was in college it was easy to get, you know a couple friends to come And but I remember just like It's just the disconnecting what I know now about open mics. And in my head and like as it just is like, you know, there's no gatekeeper. And so it's like any any random person that want that wants to do it and like people that don't have to do it mics don't do it. in my head, this was like these are like Oh because they're these are professional comedians. These are like just like comedy gods basically. I was like kind of intimidated to be in their presence.. And also, you know, the thing that like you learned quickly but I didn't know yet is how It's not it's not really a meritocracy where you they actually like randomly decide the order. It's like putting up their friends and putting up random people in the order. So it was like I just I was so nervous. It's like that you know, when my Barmitzvah and my first ten were like the most nervous I've ever Yeah And saying it It's so unfair. Yeah. I know it's like a hack premise, but like yeah, your voice is changing in the in Hebrew Yeah like it's brutal. I think I think I was just safe in terms of either before or after my voice trans. Okay. The ones that I went to I was like, this is during the transition. Yeah. I was like this's like a hazinge. That's true. That's probably why they have you saying that wasn' suppos It's to humiliate the voice. There are a lot of like coming of age rituals. I don't think Barmzfuas are one of them But designed to break the boy. Yeah I don't know if that's what's going on. I'd be very interested in. I wonder I never they don't say that's what it's for. Yeah. Are you think you're hot shit? Let's have you sing in this language. By the way, it goes this way. Yeah It's like, come on. Yeah, it originally was like just left or riot. It used to be the one you're used to, but we really wantna throw you But yeah,, you know, I was so and it felt very unfair that I was the one that was nervous that every minute I had to wait was like pure torture. and why like you should let me go first so you can get over it. L no one else cares about You know, how long they have to wait? But I was I think I was the very last person after like three hours and I kept asking that I was like, am I going am I going to go up soon They they're like, Oh in a couple and a couple Yeah Oh, they didn't even tell you you were closing No, closed out a three hour bringer. I might have yeah. And it went okay. And it was good. This is an amazing story. Like could you do that now? Like, I don't think I could do that now as You thir hourgin beginners' energy that people can sense Yeah. they can smellass. Yeah. I heard Chris Fleming on Beriglia's podcast say you can smell the freshness. The audience can sense different things. L is it a new joke? Is it a new comedian Yeah. And it does charge it. Yeah. That's why I think if I went up, it would be like, why is he doing this to us? Yeah. like I just want to try a few things like let us go home, but a new guy first time and you had jokes Yeah Like I'm remembering when I was studying like no one had jokes. I mean, I didn't do this really one liners the same way. Oh really work kind it. Yeah. But I have to imagine, correct me if I'm wrong, that you had some writing. Yeah, it was all written down. It was written yeah. I brought the whole printed out papers to like read. Did it say like good evening everybody? Yeah, like just every word for word. Including the like hello Probably. I mean, that's how I used to do it Yeah. I used to write in hecklers. Yeah. I'd write quuiet down Slappy. That was my big rhetor. I was like, if anyone hecklles, I'll goQuiet down Slappy. I thought that was I must have seen it on the muppet babies or something Theyre calling someone slappy as Wa slappy is like a reference to a person, a character. It's just like I think it's an extension of your slap happy. You're a silly goose. Yeah. It's very mild. Shut up slappy. Pret mild, yeah It's as mild as it get. As far as like the rule of consonants, it's like slappy. Yeah. It's got some papzz. Yeah. But as a salsa, it's ketchup. Yeah. It's almost nothing. So we're not that different. I used to write out like nice to be here, good And but you had some structure againgain, it's a leading question, but I have to think you stood out. If you were watching a three hour essentially open mic, you just see a lot of grabass. You see a lot of guys that are like, I'm just going to get drunk and just be weird. Yeah. You see people that bring props. I remember a guy brought a bagadildoos at the comedy Connection once And then I went up and I did a very You know, it was fine, but kind of corny routine about free samples at the mall And like, At least I was saying a thing Like the host after me was like, at least he said a thing like he kind of like said it in my defense. He was like, that's how he had a beginning a middle and an end. And like were you that way? Were you a little bit more structure? Oh, yeah, definitely. I mean I didn't do like one liners, but I definitely had discrete bits and jokes and had to be like a reason I could explain why this is supposed to be funny. Did you know it was interesting, for example, to address that you go to Harvard Oh, I definitely didn't talk about H that. You think that would alien? Well, yeah, I mean, anytim, like sometimes like a host will introduce you as out and it's not like It doesn'till. Is that right? Am I hearing you right? Like it's not a chill, it's not a benign thing to put on you Well, yeah, I mean it just carries it carries like people are just very quickly figuring out who this person is Yeah. and it carries like an expectation. of something that's like not what I'm trying to be on stage. Like almost oppositional to it. E E people say like I'm from Alaska It's always like a little weird because people are like, o, he's gonna, you know, come up in like yeahation. Yeah and tough hands. and the tundra. He's gonna say tundra. People have like an overre on how many times you're gonna to say tundra? I don't, yeah, I never have said tundra on stage. Not And you drive a tundra, which is weird. You cruise around. Yeah, I make up a car it isn't there a Toyotas Anda? Yeahah o Okay, so I don't even say the Tacoma. Because it's like Tacoma, Washington's close to Alaska. Oh my go. Yeah Why do some work and some don't You know the Nova story, Chevy Nova sold zero in like Spanish speaking countries. it means doesn't go. Oh wow. I Nova. Ohs Oh, I think I heard that yeah. But then there's some that work and some that don't Yeah We don't have to go into that. I'm surprised that the Sorrento has been such a hit. I see a lot of keia Sarerentos. It just sounds like a pimented like c That's the word that's what I'm thinking. Pimento Sernto. Yeah. It's like naming a kid. Yeah. Prius Prius is telling you what it is. It's I'm a Prius. Yeah. It is it's that. Yeah.. Can you roll with this word? Yeah. You'll like this car Yeah And so as a dododge charger, it's like exactly what it is. Yeah. These are rifts. Haveve always thought like it's not a car, but like Amazon is the perfect name because it sounds like amazing And but it's like its own word too. Am my God' amazing. You're right or even like Epedia with exciting. I don't it's like you want a word that like I'm sure they've already been all expedition a word that sounds like a positive word, but a word that sounds like a spepeaking the Soppranos, remember Vesuvio, he was like, we're gonna change the Italian restaurant Vesuvo, was like, we have to change the name if we make a change because words that start with V make people think of vagina. And then she goes, getet out of here and he goes, Vaseline I mean, vaseline is vagina Yeah. like not even a bit.. It's just like free associated Vaseline vagina. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Right? Yeah. And you're so right that Amazon, I've never thought of Amazon amazing because On the surface, you're like, why? Yeah, just it's like a jungle. and It's a jungle. another. There's a Bizarro comic where it's two guys in the Amazon and he has a laptop and he says dang ammazon. com is taken. Which yeah, they would be looking But I never thought I thought it's a surprise to me that Affleaffle is so popular because it rhymes with awful. It sounds awful. But that wasn't a brand. That was just like a type of food. You can't do it But do you think there was a meeting where they were like shouldhould we call it fall ammazing or like something? but it just or full deccent at least. Full deccent. O. do better. Yeah. Which if I'm being honest, that's how I feel about it. Yeah. It's all right. Kunan beef is also very close to human beef. Oh wow, yeah. These are the things.ue Yeah. These are the things. Okay, so o, well, sorry to hit you on the Harvard thing. As someone who grew up in Lexington and Harvard always loomed very big, it's interesting to me Be I feel like as grown men, that is the joke. You would go like, I'm from Harvard, you would go right at it. You'd be like, I'm from Harvard. I think when you tell people that this this and this. Yeah. But the risk reward, it's too great of a chasm to put like do people think you're better Do people think you think you're better than them when you're like, I went to Harvard? Is that just? I mean Yeahah, that's what it's addressed, I guess. yeah I know it's weird to have you agree with that, but I'm just interested in the social dynamic of 'Cause the joke is I went to school in Cambridge. Yeah, like, right? Exactly. Yeah, yeah. You have to say that. I went to school in the East. went to school outside of Boston. Outside of Boston. Oh, really? 'causeuse that is like seventeen schools. Yeah I like what you did where it's like MIT. L another incredibly. Did you like living in that part of the country U I've always felt a little like the East Coast feels like a foreign country to me. Yeah And in what way? It just is Well just I don't know, I mean, just I'm from Alaska. like obviously LA is different, but it's still the West cooast and everything. it feels like America. and just I mean, just like the like I mean, it's not like I mean there's not no cars in Boston, but the way it's not as car centric and the build buildings are close together and it's like there's there's so many things that just, I mean it is. it's like more like Europe than the rest of Europe is. No, it was built by people that J just were looking at Europe. Yeah I forget whos no, I know who it is It was Timothy Levit. She pointed out that like New York, Uh, like, Chicago obviously has an inferior I would say, I love Chicago, but feels inferior to New York. Boston feels inferior to New York, but New York feels inferior to London Because like if you look I never looked at it through this lens, but when you're in Union Square and they put those arches up, that's the most European thing you can do Yeah. They're like, we have it We have it too. like it's like take it easy. Yeah, New England fuck can relax. Yeah. So I know what you mean. The roads are made for like horse and buggy. Yeah. They can't really withstand the cold. Everything's very tight and close. Yeah. Looking for parking in Harvard Square is one of the greatest nightmares of my life. Yeah, I'm glad I've never had to do that. Yeah Nice bro. Yeah We were on campus n. Yeah Nice. So okay, your first show And This is I've never asked somebody this, but because you have this stage fright and this aversion to sort of the The juggling quality of it. Why did you keep doing it Did you like the way it felt? Oh, no, I loved it. You did love it. It was great to get. I mean, I'm like I'm afraid of attention, but I love attention. Look at me, leave me alone. Yeah, exactly prettytty much. Yeah. ye, yeah That's not unique to you. Yeah. I would like to control how and when Yeah I'm very I'm only saying this to get your reaction. I'm very particular about how people compliment things I've done or I'm going. And my wife teases me endlessly about those. Yeah. Like someone will say like You were on it's funny that I picked Hollywood Squares. You were on Hollywood squares. And I'm like, M. And Val's like, they're saying Pete Tell me more about when you were on h Like she has to like translate for me because I'm like, why is this asshle just saying this to me? And it's like, no, they're trying to connect. I really Nobody except Valerie gives me attention in the exact way that I'm looking Yeah. You relate to that? Yeah. I mean, it's it's, u I think it also is like it's like a quantity thing. And I mean, the nice thing about Um being like doing voice server. U is for a cartoon is like the main thing is like you don't get recognized that often. so when you do, it like makes your day Yeah. But I've seen so many people who I'm sure I'm sure, I don't know how often you get recognized, but you know, I've seen some people that get recognized enough that it's like they they obvious have to act like it made their day it doesn't Melady Oh wow. Thank you. Yeah, he's good at it. I haven't seen Melane get recognized in a very long time. I imagine he's very gracious. Yeah. Conan too. Yeah. Conan's one of those guys that It's like seeing with respect, it's like seeing Ironman around. It's like what? Yeah. It's really bizarre. Yeah. But I'm more in the camp where it really does brighten my day. Yeah. And it's funny, your voice I'm with WME and you're with WME. Yeah. And I was there when I saw an early I don't know why. I just happen to be in the office. You know how rare that is Yeah And I was in blanking on his name must been your agent And there was or maybe I wasn't Laurn Okay maybe it was Lauren's agent. Yeah. Lauren Buchard who made the show. And there was a board on the wall. It's so funny to think that this little printout would be like valuable. because Bobs wasn't on yet. And it was Tina was named Dan, I think was Yeah and there was a boy. Yeah. And they were like, and that's Dan Mens. Yeah. And then somehow I was like like your agent. I was all over this. I don't know why I was all over this. It looked like a good show, but then somehow I found out that they were making it a girl and I was talking to my agents. I was like, what are they gonna to do? And they're like, they're keeping it dan Yeah. tellell me what was your experience of that? because I don't know if a lot of people know that Tina was a boy. Yeah, it was I mean, it was very stressful because I thought I was like getting replaced. I did too, and I was re rooting for you. Yeah, obviously. Thank you. Yeah that might have been what the have me being like, have you considered? because now it seems so obvious now Yeah, that Tina is your voice. Yeah. But like at the time, somebody had to and this is so rare at an executive level be like, no, I think that's interesting. We should do it Yeah, it was, I mean, it really was and I didn't know any of this at the time. I didn't even know this to like five years ten years later. But like really they didn't someone, I think whoever was like the head of Fox at the time like didn't think my character worked and wanted to cut it. And Lauren was like, well, can we try some stuff And like that's one of the things they tried And then they didn't didn't cut it. And just thinking like it's so funny to think of that show withouta Not to butter your bread. We love Bobs and we love Tina. You do an amazing job Well thank you. They write for you very well just to give full rounded respect, but like When I'm like if somebody says, do you want to watch Bob's Burgerers, like the flash is in my mind, I love Bob. I love every character. It's not fair to say, but I really think of Thank you. Like she really blossomed and It became like a huge part of why I think that show works. so keep going. Well to me, I mean the way the way placeays my mind goes is like, what if I had been cught and I have to watch the show be successful about this whole fifteen years later, I no I could have been. This was right about the time you got married because I think it was at your wedding. Yeah. and all I remember was you had just gotten. Yes. It started in January twenty eleven and we got married in May. Oh, wow. H you. Yeah, yeah I remember it was like just like Like it was like when you were inviting people, I fel like I didn't know the boss people well enough Yeah. And by the time the wedding happened, I felt kind of bad that I hadn't invited any of them. That's so funny But you didn't know that was first season. Yeah, that. And also that that was the feeling too, like Ielt I really feel like maybe more at that time, but I don't know. I felt like shows were really coming and going. Yeah. and they still do, but Nobody was like, o, Den's on the newew Simpsons. You were No, No, I was very I thought, you know, anything I've ever been on, you always assume it's like the last season O if it's one thing, it's like a one season true. And you start going, I'm the through line. L I'll do that. Every time I got to a club andew work it would clothes. Yeah. and I'm like, it's me Yeah likeike I'm in the face of ye. It might be Yeah but with ye But I was like I didn't I didn't care because I I had my like life going with all my goals and, you know, things I had happened and didn't happen and whatever. And this was just like a nice little bonus. I wasn't it wasn't like I'm not on this plan to be a voice oractor. I was like, o, it's cool that, you know, with the other stuff I'm doing also For like a season, it would be this funny thing that I'm playing a girl. Yeah on a cartoon. Yeah. And then how many seasons later? Yeah, it's like, I don't even know like sixteen or something ' crazy. What do you pull down I just go very hard It's one of my go to jokes. I just think that's really funny. Okay, so it was going to be a boy and then you were nervous and then they tested Tina as a girl and everybody was like, okay, this works. Yeah, essentially.. Do you ever get forgive me if this is an obvious question, You do have such a unique voice. Do you get like you're talking to the TSA agent and someone's like Tina. Pretty rarely.erest I mean, more often I'll have talked to someone for a while and then they'll be like, what do you do? and it'll like come out and they're like, Ohh, I see it now. Oh, interesting That's funny. I wonder how when I feel like people should be putting this together. Yeah, I mean, I don't change my voice. They do pitch shift the pitch up a little bit. quarter tone. Would you say I'll have a medium popcorn and a diet Cke? justust let me see if I could. Is that a Latina line? No, this is you at a movie theater. Oh. Okay. I'll have a medium popcorn and a diet Coke Well, they're not closing their eyes. But you're I'm behind you. Oh. Oh I thought you were the popcorn guy Oh, no, no, no. I would never think so highly of myself. I'm behind you. Yeah. I'm behind you. And I feel like if I'm behind you, that used to I did the e trade baby and at the height of that, sometimes, like three times though. That's a lot of times someone would go, what? Yeah And it was when they were behind me you would hear my. Yeah. maybe. I mean also you need to have more people. I don't see they're behind' I don't see it what they're You what? I don't see them that they're behind me, so I don't know. Maybe they. They have to turn and then they go Data Yeah. 'cause I did an episode or maybe two of Bob's and I think you were there I know Eugene was calling in. Yeah. Why do I think like you were calling in? Maybe I might have been call. I mean, if I was out of town that week or something. Yeah. But it's cool that you guys do that. I think the Simpsons does it too but like an ensemble ording and I think you can really tell the difference. Yeah. It makes a huge difference that you guys are interacting with each other and improvizing stuff So much. And when I watch Every other cartoon Let me phrase this as a question because I love your take. It's like When I watch so many cartoons, I'm like, oh, these people never met Yeah. like they don't like sometimes someone will say something like You want to give me a ham sandwich? And then the person goes Yeah, I want to give you a ham sandwich. It's like why they just said ham. Like they're clearly concerned about the ham and you're concerned about the sandwich. Like no one Sometimes I feel like cartoon like cartoons are just going like, well, nobody's even caring let's just run the roost and not give a shit. It seems fine. I mean, I've never noticed, I've never like noticed that jump it's sounding bad. But I do notice like with Luren shows Like I you know, I can't really watch Bob's objectively, but like home movies and, you know, the stuff he did before does sound especially Ogan orrganic. Yeah I always think it's like for like a kids show or like bigger energy and stuff, like it doesn't really matter. Right Yeah I think This is from me watching stuff with my daughter. Yeah she was little. and I was like, noody gave a shit about this how to Train Y Dragon TV series. I don't know if it was that shhots fired how to trarain your dragon. That's just something we watched Um Okay This might be a weird one, but Can you think of a time you improvised or something that was improvised really elevated the show I really cannot. I didn't expect you to be. I was I mean, I'm one of the I'm less improvi than the other actors Yeah on the show. Sometimes like if they're improvising, it kind of pushes me into it. It's funny like when the show started, I was like, I should finally take an improv class. And then I never did. But I was like I really should learn. I remember, especially in the early years, I was like E every week we'd we'd get to their court and I'm like, o, I should have like prepared you know, jokes to pretend to improvise. I should have worked on that like this why not do this? Why did I not I did nothing I I did nothing to do this week and like that would that could have made such a big difference Yeah in you know, where I go in terms of the show and I and I never did it. But but yeah, and the other thing is like the other actors like improvise a lot, but the shows are the script is already so tight. There's not a lot a lot of room. I mean, there's so often like when you're on the writing side where It's like the actor says such a funny thing, like we got to use it. and then you're like, well, actually, There's a reason why we didn't have a joke at that line it pulls on this thread. Yeah Yeah. Yeah. and it spoils the next scene. Yeah satisfies what we're trying to leave hungry going into the rest of the show. Yeah. So I think the one the I think the most common improv to get in would be Eugene Eugene's references. L that's why Eugene has such funny references of a guy that was born you know, I don't know Maybe it's supposed to be like eight, seventy five or something Yeah nine Yeah, yeah yeah, but he knows yeah. ye. he knows Mr. Wizard. likeike why is these why is this kid say? But of course that becomes part of the joke. Yeah. Here's a really specific I really when you agreed to come on the show ' it's called You Made it Weird. Yeah obviously. And I was like The conceit used to be like, what is weird about you? Okay. But we don't have to talk about that, but I am gonna lead you to this one thing. There's nothing weird about me. So I couldn't Just absolutely not. I love that the first thing we talked about is how neither of us, sometimes we don't want to be touched ye But then we both walked in the lation Nhing really different about me. I just remember I did warm up. Do you remember this? I did warm up for important things Yeah and I ye it was just that in San Francisco. Yeah New York. Yeah. I still tour San Francisco and there are people that are like, that's how we found out. Isn't that crazy? Yeah. It's one of my It' weird when when you just stand up a long time, you can see like the ripples of like how you built a fan base in a place. Yeah. and you never think you are, but it's like S surprise surprise it's by going to that place for a really long time. Yeah. But I was there Yeah Uh, was Malany there No he only worked on first season Okay, that was second season He and I actually, we were in that little office and we both submitted and I think he got it I remember The packet was fire. The important thing was fire. Do you remember this? Yeah. And he Manei figured out that Trump was funny way before anyone else. Do you remember this Like like I remember talking about Yeah. we had fine gold hair and when my number comes in, all that. But he had this cold open where there's fire and then Trump walks in, it's a cartoon and points out and goes, Yfia Yeah. And that was like his first joke. And I remember just being like, I feel like we're doing different things. Yeah.ike he was just playing three D chess doing a better packet But when I got to the show It was kind of the first time I had seen It probably was the very first time I saw a writer's room This is all leading to your weird thing, hopefully interesting thing is that they were like, I open the freezer and there were all these packages of frozen broccoli. And someone was like, Yeahah, Dan takes the FDA five servings of broccoli every day or five servings of vegetable incredibly literally. and he eats five ser heats up frozen broccoli five times a day. I just thought that was interesting.''s Like we were writing a character, Dan Mas, forty something, the kind of guy who reads you should have five servings of vegetables a day and then brings in frozen broccoli to the writer's room and heats it up intermittently. We know a little bit more about you. One, do you still do that or two do you remember doing that? Walk me through it. I do not remember ever at a show bringing it to the show and cooking at the show. It's crazy that that happened. It's admirable too. WitersZoms are notoriously the place where you gain seventeen pounds. I mean, that also I think was the time there was two times we went up to San Francisco. I don't know if you're at both of them. I think it was just one. But there was the time it was like right after I fell off my bike and got a concussion Oh no. And so I was in like a really weird place. The like just like cree me on the floor and stuff. Yeahah. I had a concussion. It took me out of my normal life for months. Yeah. And you wonder it was like It was not too soon after there's all the awareness about how it's bad for you. Yeah, which obviously is very stressful. but I wonder if that's also there's psychosomatic component to like if it had if if you still thought that it was like not that big a deal like could shake it off, maybe you could have in the eighties. Yeah I think in the eighties there was just a much bigger allowance for like, I'm just gonnaa fuck today You know, and now, I'm so with you. I was hypertuned. Yeah. It I'll say this every time it comes up, it turns out my eyes were knocked out of alignment And a fan named Abby Emily Facebooked to me. I'll shout her out every time. She said, it sounds like you have convergence and sufficiency. I was really, I thought I wasn't funny. Wow. I was like about to get my talk show I think. Yeah. And I was do you remember this Katie, I've talked about a bunch over the years. So forgive me, I'm actually checking in. How bored are you, Katie? You're not. I know To me, it was life or death. Like I lost my ability to be f. I thought thean was like do pencil push upps with your eyes and it fixed it in like a day. Wow. I didn't have an eye thing, but I remember, you know, it's very stressful. Yeah, because I was out there and I just had a ccussion and like had to pitch pitching jokes and I felt like like stressed that I couldn't do it. I remember Nathan Fielder, I met him on that season. with he was wr on that And he wrote on season two. ye. wow U That was his first kind job in America coming from Canada. Nathan for two Nathan for. Awful. If you weren't the guest, I wouldn't have tried for T. I was like, there's a chance Dan might like. You could call the That's what they call the second season. Petam Mark. It's a joke that only works for the second season and then never again. That's why they didn't bring it have a third season because it would. Was there only two seasons? only two seasons. Is't that funny who made it Becauseuse was Canadian show. Oh, Nathan's showow? Yeah. You mean Are you talking about Nathan's showh before in Canada Well, he had Nathan, it was something else. It was He worked on this hour's twenty two minutes. Yeah in Canada. Which I segment on that. Which I love that. But then he got his own show called Like Nathan. Nathan for you But it wasn't Nathan Free, was it I believe. I don't remember anything in between. Oh I thought there was something in between where it's called like Nathan Oh, no, that was the segment segment. Yeah had to do had And then how many seasons of Nathan for you were there? And I don't know. there's maybe. Okay. because if they' only two, I'm like Yeah, they're kicking themselves. Yeah. And like they wanted to do more. I think he was just like, you know, wanted to make sure He didn't get to the point where they He ran out of, you know, you want to quit before he runan out of ideas. Yeah, yeah I came home last night from a big tour and I was really having a hard time shifting from tour mode to family mode and just unwinding, relaxing, and merging back into my everyday routine. 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It's the perfect time to wake up and think about everything you can't control. So if you're done with all the usual sleep stuff and still feel wired, Apollo was a huge help for me. Go topollouro dot com slash weird and get ninety nine dollars off. That's Apo LLo anduro dot com slash weird and get ninety nine bucks off Where are we becausecauseuse I do wantan to talk about Nathan for you, but you I feel like you talking about concussion., the con broccol and the bcoli. So yeah, but Nathan would How we you get out of your concussion? Oh, sorry. How did I get out of it? How did you recover? I just took time, I guess. Okay. But But Nathan, he would always talk to me be about how my personality has permanently changed. That was very stressful. What a nightmare If there's only if there's a certain kind of face Yeah that could deadpan tell you your personality is irrevocably changed. it's Nathan Field. Like he's who would show up in a coma to be like, I don't know if you're going come back from this. L that's I mean, to be fair, I had previously said mean things to him. so it's not like he's psychopathic just You guys are famous Yasters just constantly getting each other It's so crazy I Like I watched a Roseanne documentary onTube YouTube and Gory was in the writer's room. It's kind of an un exxplored because how do you do it region of show business, which is like Melaney and Nathan Fielder and you were in a writer's room. Like that's really funny. Like yeah, I was in a writer's room with Josh Lib. Uh, um, Can you bear us? like these people that really blew up? It's super funny to think uh, like, you know, just seeing them showing up for their job, like ming superstar. Yeah. was like nervous, sorry late I mean, he wasn't a superstar. this was before SN out. That's what I'm saying Yeah before he was a superstar. Yeah. That's what I'm hinting at. I'm teachinging you before they were stars' ition. Yeah. Not that, you know, it's just funny to think of them in service and nervous. likeike Mulanei submitted to that show. We were both like Really hoping we got it. Yeah I think that's very funny. Yeah. Okay, so concussion, a five servings is of broccoli. Yeah. so yeah, but I do, I don't remember that ever bringing broccoli to a show. Maybe I did, but it was in the freezer. But yeah, but I do, but I definitely try to make a point. To me, it's like it's like a low hanging fruit of health things It's like, it's hard to eat, it's hard to stop yourself from eating too much It's hard to get more exercise. It's hard to get more sleep. It's easy to just eat more fruits and vegetables. So I don't know if it's as important as the other stuff Yeah, but it's like one thing that and it's also just like It's also means you're kind of less hungry for other food that you should' be eating too.. So I've I get that logic so hard. Yeah. You're like, you want you want to eat like somebody gave me a tip a long time ago. I don't really smoke that much, but they're like, if you're stoned hk into a watermelon. Yeah because it'll still satisfy that sort of like, Oh man, I'm going not Yeah, but you ate like forty eight calories of watermelon. And that was, I guess an unintentional pwn because I said it's the low hang fruit I like vegetables. So many things we think are vegetables are fruits. so that's fine. Yeah so it works Yeah I actually think That might have just changed somebody's life because you're right. Carving out more time for sleep, certainly exercise. but you can. And what brought the watermelon thing to mind is like If you like eating H. It's like, how about all the donoughuts in the world? Yeah. eat All the broccoli. Yeah. and you're just like, I guess I hate eating. It's like methadone for yeah, methadone for food addiction. Are you still that way? or you a careful, thoughtful person? I still do try to eat a lot like an A lot of vegetables a today are or not f the vegetable. Yeah. I still have frozen broccoli in my freezer. It's I mean, it's so easy. There's most most Fruits and vegetables in like fresh form, you know, trigg bad before you eat them. Before you get home. Yeah, it's awful. Nos I mean, I feel like this is the area that I'll have to move on even though I don't want to. because I actually find this fascinating. Things that are frozen. like frozen blueberries are like a real this I almost said a rockin dessert. I'm like a youth pastor. They are though. I give it to my daughter. She's like begging for ice cream and I give her a bowl of frozen blueberries complaints Yeah. These are the tips. These are the tips you didn't know you'd get from a comedy podcast. Yeah. Tell me about working on Nathan for you. wereere you on that show D Dumb Starbucks is right around the corner from where we are right now. Yeah. Were you there at that time? You know, it is Comedy Central, so the writers were not kept on for the production. Oh. So I was there when we were writing the stuff. I wasn't there. It's funny, like I think like Margy was like, to he about this dumb Starbucks thing? And I was like, o, did they, oh, they're already airing Nathan for you?. She's like what are you talking about? Yeah Because she did seen it BeCcauseuse it was on the news. Yeah. So it caus funite I lived here at that time. Yeah. It caused quite a stir. Yeah, my friend's mom was just randomly on Nathan for you. Oh really? She was one of the people at that A comedian that I started with named Jason Fver pretended to work there. He kind of Nathan for youow Nathan for you. Yeah prettended to work there and did an interview. Wow. I mean, like the hunters become the hunted. Yeah. But like To your point, nobody thought Dumb Starbucks was going to be like a runaway sensation. There was a rumor that it was Banksy, which I think really helped. Yeah. ye. It was, I mean, that was the whole point of the premise was to make it was like it wasn't it wasn't worth Well, I don't remember. I guess it could have worked. I guess it could have worked if it didn't go viral, but it was better obviously dead. But yeah, we, I mean, working into the reiew was like, u It was interesting think creatively because it was like in some ways, it's like the perfect thing for me creatively because of the like absurd absurdity. It's like the kinds of places my mind goes. Yeah. But the but in terms of being real people, it's like like I'm saying, I'm not an improv person. and it's like it's hard for me to like think about like what well, like Nathan is so good at instantly being like, how will this actually play out when Iact people. When I did stuff in the field again for my talk show I realize that is the skill Like you're not getting a laugh. Yeah. It's not even funny. Yeah. but you know it will be funny later. Yeah Yeah I did not have the best sense of that. It's really hard to do. Yeah. I think What I didn't know is when you're if you watch someone shooting Nathan for you, you wouldn't be like dying laughing necessarily. Yeah meaning he's going in the editing Yeah will cut to me just sitting here saying nothing Yeah. and that'll be so funny because it's a TV show. It's wrong. Yeah. But in a room, it's just what's happened. Yeah. Yeah, right. And he would we would write this is just what Nathan's process was, write full scripts. even just because he wanted to know and in the script, you're just counting on each person Being like a character in the office rolling their eyes at Michael Scott basically.. You're like not counting on getting a lot and you want to just be funny J be funny with Nathan and knowing that their people aren uncomfortable. Right And knowing that all the escalations work. Right. Right. And then he'd go and like I said, the writers weren't there for that much. so I didn't even get to see this until it aired thenen you get such like interesting reactions from people, sometimes in a way that just totally changes the premise. where you have to change it. And sometimes sometimes in a way where it's like Lake It doesn't change it just adds to it because it's such an weird nursing person. Right. But I don't know if you remember the is like the real estate agent ghost. Yeah. And it was like, I think when you wrote the script, point of it was supposed to be that this The real estate d and got sucked into saying that it was haunted I forgot the exact premise say and like didn't want pay more for apartments that had been haunted, I think was the setup. to pay more pay less. I thought it was pay more. Whatever was. because in New Orleans, it'll say like, okay, haunted apartment. Well, whatever it is, it was like for rent. It is like you want you were expecting a real estate reent to be like most people, which is like Why did I like say there's a ghost here or have to go along with it because I'm on the show? Yeah. But instead, you got someone that was like fully into it and it' like such' like just as good but in a totally different direction. Yeah I feel like that is Even listening to Dan Mint's animated a new standup special Like so much of what you and we were talking about being neurospicy on the way in. and one of the ways neurospiciness shows up is at least for me, is like there's five ways what you just said, I could interpret it five ways. And I know the way I think based on the context you mean it But like So The one that really, if I'm being honest, and I'm not holding your feet to the fire, I think it'll be fun to talk about There was an episode of Nathan for you that was so uncomfortable. It was the box for people to have sex in and their kids can't hear I mean, I was only there for the first two seasons. Oh I think that was on it. Yeahah. But my point that I'm really just speaking thematically, that is a very spectrum me solution. It's like parents want to have sex. kids are there So they need a special room inside the room where they can have sex. Yeah. The reason it gets uncomfortable is because they have a kid sitting on the bed. presumably.'t I'm guessing they didn't really do it. Yeah. But while porn stars had an orgy It took me a while to consider that that was probably editing, that it probably wasn't in the box Um, but like it's that like I guess what I'm asking you is, do you feel that question? What do you mean by this Why is this allowed and this isn't allowed? Do you feel that a lot just in your day to day life Do you mean having like like like an autistic sensitivity to like unfairness or like unfairfairness making sense and not making confute an autistic level or a sensitivity that's I'm trying to speak of this with respect a spectrumy, I don't know why that feels less Yeah pointed, a spectrumy appreciation for confusion and also fairness. yeah. I mean, I think so. yeah. I think I'm always like I have a very hard time accepting littleittle things that yeah, that don't make sense. Yeah. Lake I mean, one thing is like, You know, like giving Giving a gift to your spouse when it's like both of your money Like doesn't make any sense to me But like, thank you. Maret is a great example It's like That makes a lot ofense What's that? No, it makes a lot of sense when you're dating and you're actually giving them. Yeah from youral F your resources Yeah are being extended in another direction. but now we share resources. Yeah. Val teases me I don't understand. I've kind of learned to understand But if I got Vala gift, I never thought I should save this for Mother's Day I'll give it to her day I got it. Yes, because I'm excited. I know. And I'm supposed to wait for you do this? Yeah. And then like why did I waste it on that? Yeah She went on a What was it? It doesn't matter. Let's say she went on a long weekend, like a getaway And it was awesome And then I realized she was coming back on Mother's D. And I was like, I should have said, but she knows me and she loves me. So I'll just say like, I should have said that was your mother But because she understands me, she'll go like, that's fine. Like she's not bothered by that, but that's a special kind of person that can appreciate my Wh would you it' like, can I ask you this? like Doesn't everything just kind of seem made up? Do you have that voice where you're like, this is made up Yeah. Like you say, I have a policy or there's a day called Mother's Day. You're just like, yeah, can't we see that this is just made up? Yeah, right? Yeah. well, or're just I mean like you know, Margy has like like This idea that you eat breakfast, food for breakfast, lunch food for lunch, dinner. Like you know, you got breakfast for dinner is a treat. but I would just eat whatever you want. I'll just give the kids anything for any meal D drives are crazy Really, just as like spaghetti for breakfast. I mean, I couldn't be more with you. Yeah. sure But what what was your real example? Well, spaghett That's like doing more work than you need to. It would be more the other way around. It' be like waffles for dinner. Waffle for dinner, but not as like a special breaks or dinner treat, just as like, oh, that's food in the freezer and they'll eat it. And we have it. Yeah. You know why we did it? We have it. Yeah. And they ate it. and it's delicious and we're good. But this is reminding me of win When I was first dating Margie You were dating Jamie Lee a little maybe a little later, but overlapping. Yeah and they were your friends. Yeah. And I would always hear about all the like amazing gifts that you got, Jamie Really? Yeah, that is so funny. That's an episode. it's this kind of mind that this is why you've been on so many amazing shows. I immediately, first of all, I didn't, well, I don't think I knew that, but it's also like that's a funny scene where you confront me to please stop Because it's inconveniencing your life. Yeah. This is why Kurb, which is obviously a neurospicy show. Yeah. These types of conflicts are very funny Yeah That is so ny. Why can't you be more like Pete? Let's just say it. Why can't Pete P gets all these wonderful gifts Um God I'm trying to think of other Nathan for you things, but really I'm just interested in like what else seems arbitrary? That's a nice cooking area for me Like I often find like when people are like can't the submission window is over or anything like that. Yeah We're like I When someone pitch is a show and it's in development. and then that network doesn't make it I'm like, we should be able to just take that show so That's the worst. Yeah. And for some reason, This town that only cares about money has this almost superstitious belief, almost like I don't know if it's superstitious or like Totanical or just childish No, that's done Yeah Why I had that, I submitted cartoons to the New Yorker. I would resubmit cartoons. I'd be like, you were wrong Yeah, this this is good. You should see it again. Like are you sure They're like, you already submitted this. I submitted one There's two angels with huge wings in heaven and he says, I miss back rubs. I submitted that Twelve times I'm like, Are you sure? Yeah. Have you seen the stuff you're printing? I miss backackrubs is good. Buy it. And they never would. Do you know what I'm? Am I igniting anything in you when it comes to like Can't we just admit this is make belief Um, I mean, I feel like I have a little bit more of a sense of like, I just you just have to accept that like There's like a corporation is not a rational person. It's a bunch of people each making their own rational decisions Yeah. And the like if someone does something, if someone like takes a chance on something that's kind of not done, that that's like a the risk is not worse the reward because it will make them look worse if they fail and they won't, you know, get the right amount of credit for us. So that's why like there's so many like rules that don't make sense because it's like people want every everyone wants the it's not even egos. It's just like like I mean, think about like it if you had It's like a ball bearing company, a ball bearing factory and you like If you'd make the wrong kind of ball bearing, it's not going to be plastered across every blog. like this is the worst ball bearing ever. like what were they thinking? It made it made like five dollars the first week. Yeah Like it's like the failures are so high profile. People are like too risk averse That's really interesting. Yeah, I tried to do a joke about that where When you walk drive around LA in awward season It'll just say like who won seven Golden Globes or something. Yeah this would be like being in a town where everyone's an accountant And there's just a billboard of an account that's like nobody crunches numbers like, bam. And like but it really does something to how we were. Well, you were on Millania, That's one of the few examples of it went away on NBC and came back to Fox, isn't that right Yeah, it was right. they MEC didn't pick up the pilot And then I was at that tape. and it was called Malane, Don't Drink. Yeah. rememember? I remember Yeah the blow of the cold open was everybody cheers and then he went, Ohoh, this is what I'm trying not to do But it was a premise remember The premise was John sober That was like kind of the engine of the show. You were involved at that point Well, I remember You know what? I don't know if I was I remember going mayaybe I was as involved as already at Fox but I do remember going to like a like u table like a writer's room just for the pilot like an uno official thing. And then I remember Yeah, and then and then actually being on the show when it got picked up. And I mean, that's what, you know, that that was one of those. I've feel like I have several of these that like it feels like when you get it, it's like a very has it's a very hot like buzzy show. Do doesn't live up to that. And I mean, that's what I left like Nathan for you for to write on that. Oh really? Yeah. Interest wait, are we saying Nathan for you was about to become huge, Is that part of what you're pointing out? No, I don't think I I mean, well I don't know if I left it. I mean, Nathan Reiew was like in between seasons. and that was more like I took a like it wasn't like a controversial a big decision right I took a job and I couldn't do. The timing didn't work for Nathan And Nathan Riew, I feel like it was like I get like I I get as much credit for writing for two seasons as for for seasons I don't feel like I. I don't like like regret It was fun. It was also really fun working on Melani and But it didn't really it wasn't as successful as we hoped it would be. Right. Was that What was that like for you? Like what I read this Who did Harry met Sally when Harry met Sally who wrote Is it Nor Efron? Yeah, o.ry. So Nor Efhron Val and I have been talking about this a lot lately did another movie. I think it's called War of the Roses. No, it's not called War of the Roses. I just watched them forget that I said that It wasn't called War of the Roses. But it was Jack Nicholson and like I don't know. So it might have been Diane Keaton, like just a killer. and it was right after when Harry met Sally, So like hot script cast and she wr wrote in her book or something. She was like, there's no difference between the feeling of making a h and making a fl. mean while you're doing it. Wh you're doing it.. Everyone was dying Yeah on set. they were having fun. They couldn't wait for the release and then it just tanked And what was I guess I'm priming you with like, what was it like on Milani? Was the vibe in the room like here we go We're doing it. We're doing what we're trying to do. They' there. Yes. The vi was very it was very fun, very exciting. It felt like it was a really good show. And this was the second time I also worked on Lucky Louis and both of them were very similar where it was like was like reinventing the multiam or making a smart version of Multicam. Yeah. where the goal is You get you get the you get the people who watch multicams and then you get like kind of young hip smart people by having like be a cool show. Yeah And then it turns out that both people don't like it. They feel like it's not for any of them. So So I feel like I should have been prepared for that the second time around, but it just it just seemed I couldn't really you just kind of you take it as an If you take it as a given that is going to be a success and you work backwards from there And I remember at one point like hearing fromr someone like, oh, it's like tracking really poorly. I don't really know what that means. What does that mean? I don't know if it means like testing or or just like asking public like public awareness of it. And then I remember kind of like feel like they're I feel like there hasn't been a lot of press out about this. Like I was like in my head I I feel like ' there's, you know, it's only like a week before and came out. And then it was just like and then there were I don't even remember if they if the reviews were like terrible or they were like mixed and by compared expectation, they felt terrible. but right, there is something I remember, I think it was no, it was Jim Gaffkan. he goes, just never be on the cover of Rolling Stone. It's something he told me because he goes, once you're there, you down. Yeah. It's a weird time in television. Again, we were watching it every week at this house And to watch the fervor, people love an easy story and the story of like Golden Boy gets Golden Sh. It's called Mulanei. Yeah. It's going to replace Seinfeld. Yeah. It kind of Like if I The way that Seinfeld started smaller, do you remember Seinfeld like Elaine is a smaller k Yeah. Like Malaine really jumped into the deep end. Yeah I literally speent because I love John. like I've spent time thinking about like Can we as a culture be eased into a show more? Beause I did feel like season one there was a pressure. L I remember you guys did like a body swap episode essentially where it's like Uh Noodles is now Jody and Jodi is Noodles. And I'm like, nobody knows Jodody. like we haven't had enough time to know Jodody. I'm not making fun. I'm saying like ye it felt like there was a we got a rush into the beloved shows you're saying you're starting with like season six starting on season six. And I'm not saying that was a mistake y'all made as much as I'm saying that seems to be the appetite. see that across a lot of shows.'s like Well, where's the loud episode you're like Well, Seinfeld did two seasons Yeah, where it was really just Jerry and George and their friendship and Kramer wasn't even doing the thing yet But we're like, what's his thing? Yeah. what does that make you think of? I mean,, does that are we talking about the same thing? I mean, yeah, that I mean, that makes sense. ike I said, like it was working for me all the way through. and so was, you know, I can't watch something I worked on objectively anyway. so I'm always kind of guessing what how I would respond to it. but Yeah. you know, like you said, I felt like it was it was killing Um, and L, ye, once yeah, there's there's like a million like kind of postmortems you could like out there, but yeah. And is there anything stupider or lazier than me being like, I know after the Well No off course I do that at all That's what we everything I watch. Yeah. Well, hopefully it can inform, you know the next And isn't it funny that I feel like if Mulany put out a multicam now like The f would be higher Yeah. L people would it probably would never do that, but yeah. I do wonder if just the multi cam it's kind of a dead medium because I do think that you're there's There's such a like suspension disbelief peopleople stopp talking to wait for the laughter lies down lies down Yeah that like you're people were okay, people would would accept that and not think about it when they had always watched multiicams. But it's like it's like once a fire starts, like trying to restart it. It's like it's hard for I think it's hard for people to get unless they've been watching them this whole time. right. You know, and it's different when you mean like the young people who weren'tised on them, they watch them. I mean, even us who were raised on it, but just aren't used to it. Like if you go back and watch Seinfelder Friends, it's different because you you're suck back into the memory It's like a song. But it's hard for it's hard for any any new multi cam, I think. I know what you mean. And I do. I remember like there's a different when like single cams first started, there's like a different suspension of disbelief because they'd have, I remember like, you know, Malcolm Middle or Bram Mackro, they'd have like the talking to the camera thing. Yeah. And there's like, who are you talking to? I mean, eventually with the office, there was like a film crew or whatever But we didn't really most things don't have that. And then by the time So right. Bernie Mac. Yeah, who are you talking to? Yeah. But at that time Nobody said, who are you talking to? You I'm saying it's the opposite. Yeah. I'm saying it's opposite. At that time, I was like, who are you talking to? Now when I watch W gam, I don't think about it because that's the idiom. Oh, interesting That's funny. I When he was talking, I can't remember if I thought who you werere talking to, but it is funny. Well, it's just a little it's just a new thing that you have to accept. Yeah. and it makes it hard. I mean, it took a while for like for a while, it took a while for single candid to get going. Yeah. It felt like a less fun It was multic. I remember modern family being a slow burn and then before you know it, everything was modern family Yeah It still is. Yeah. L new shows are still coming out. And those tropes are like Hard, man where it's like someomeone comments on how Dan always does this thing And I'm like he raises his eyebrow like those. And then it cuts you doing it and then it cuts back to my testimonial. Like, we have an insatiable appetite for that joke, apparently Yeah, that's veryice I will never in a million years do X in this next scene is That's right. whatever access. And boy do we love it? Yeah. I guess it's very interesting. Given your choice of anything, what would you like to do? Like if I was just like Captain show business And you could do anything a hybrid of reality like Nathan or a sitcom or even if a mult. I couldn't. I mean, I don't have the tras to do anything reality or or like Nathan Prankb. So it wouldn't do be that, but I mean, I guess I like I still because it's what I grew up on like the idea of a multiam despite what I just said.. And then we cut to it then cut. But we do it Yeah like the trope I was was like You get it. You get it. You have the budget on this podcast? We can do that. We only need one scene. You need audience full live audience, but yeah We actually have a GoPro room So it's black and white. Yeah Hey, it's Julie Louis Drefist from Wiser Th Me, etcetera. Just popping in with a little reality check Food waste shouldn't exist. There is no reason that our leftovers should end up in a landfill, but that's the final destination for about a third of the food we grow Our ancestors would be confused. They use their food scraps as compost, or as animal feed, or in weird soups, all the stuff we did before garbage was invented Composting is hard work. Living with a bucket of rotten food on your counter is gross. Most food goes in the trash because It's easy And these days we'll take any easy we can get But now there's something easier. Pop your scraps in a Mill food recycler It looks like a kitchen bin and an iPhone had a baby. It takes nearly anything, even meat and bones. It works automatically. You can keep filling it for weeks and it never smells When you finally empty it, you've got these nutrient rich grounds. Use them in your garden, pour them in your green bin, or have mill get them to a small farm. so the food you don't eat can help grow the food you do. justust like it should be It's why I own a mill, why I invest in mill, and why I'm still obsessed with my mill. If you want to get obsessed too, go to mill dot com slash wiser to get seventy five dollars off. That's mill dot com slash wiser for seventy five dollars off But I've worked on multicams. I've been writing on multicams and I had my own multicam very briefly that even the biggest Pete Holmes fan doesn't know about, which was super fun. meaning doing it was super fun. So you did a talk show Wong Yeah, but a multicam is like a talk show where every guest has a script and you Yeah and you just it was like yeah, I've said this a million times. it was like summer camp. It's like Even though you know it's going on TV, there's this feeling like we're only delicious for these people. Yes, it is more It's definitely more fun. It's so fun. yeah And so you would do likeike a high concept, like a I know we're talking about Louis and Milane Do you think there's a white? likeike I remember Chris Elliot had this idea U where it's a ob And he lives in a multicam. like he lives at home and it's a, you know stududio audience, multiam. But then when he goes to work, it turns into NYPutD blue So you see him like in a gritty crime drama and then when he comes to m Yeah, that's so funny. Which is funny, but it's like I'm not putting him down at all. I think they shot the pilot. they didn't do it. I'm like so many things And we never know which ones are which, but are funny sort of the first time you see it. Yeah. Like he's finding the body and they're describing all the awful things that happen to the body. And then he comes home and he's like, boy, work you know, like that is funny. Yeah. It's more of a sketch Yeah than a season. I don't know it seems. Yeah. I mean, a lot of those things, there's a lot of movies like that where I'm like I don't know It seemems hard to turn this concept from a sketch into a movie. But if they could pull it off, that would be amazing. And I hope they can pull it off. but like usually Happy toown murders or whatever it was. like it's the puppet one. With all respect, it's hard to make a movie, but people didn't peopleople didnt see it really, but like puppets, but we take it dead seriously. Yeah I mean, hard. Yeah, hard stuff. Okay, so you're saying you would want to do a multi game. I'm wondering if it would be like a high concept or like a traditional. No, I think I mean, ideally, I would do well I don't know if I would because I don't know if it would you could make a successful multicon these days. but like in theory that would be my dream is just to do like, yeah, my version of Seinfeld, my version of Melanei. Yeah Mints. Yeah. I mean great name Oh prereviously on Mints I mean, I used to want to be like a talk everyone every I guess at least every white male, you know, comic wanted to be a talk show host. Yeah, yeah when they were growing up. I do feel like O some what was like Like it would definitely be deconstructionists that I'm like not Typical And then once what was was the Chris Farley it? Yeah, good at it. didid you always say good at it? it was like where I felt you about to say good at it. But it was like that Chris Farley character Yeah you know what I'm talking about? F show. Yeah. But yeah that, oh, he was just being here Yeah that was like that kind of like, oh, well that he did that already. like and I'm like But he was pretending. Yeah. I mean, I think he was exaggerating he was around celebrities, but you could actually really authentically go for it. Oh you're having a I mean, it's a great time to start a network talk show I think. A lot of openings. I mean, they're gonna fill it with something. Yeah I don't know what's going on I actually kind of don't know what's going on neither If you have a feeling about AI? I like to ask people about that. Yeah. know I've terrified of it, you know, replacing me for a long time. I feel like I actually heard I heard like a lot of Rumors about its capabilities before Chat GTP and when Chat GTP came out, I was actually not as capable as I was. GT. whatever what did I say? I like that you're slurring it. kindind of dragging it. Chat, whatever it is. You don't give a shit.'t own it. J justust be like, I don't fucking respect it. But But yeah, when it came by the time it came out, I was like it didn't even live up to my fears Oh yeah, what it what it could do Um But but I'm still, but obviously it just keeps getting better and I'm just I'm just trying to like it's actually not entirely true. Well, I do mayaybe not day to day, but like between ten years from now Yeah, just because I feel like it gets reported so much how amazing it is and it is. Yeah With each update, it hallucinates almost twice as much. Oh wow. I went from fifteen to thirty to almost sixty percent. Yeah. So like and the line and none of this makes the news. againgain, I shout this channel out a lot. I learned this from Julian Watley. It's a YouTube channel that has helped me balance some of theTube sry some of the AI paranoia and fear. Yeah. It seems like nobody's talking about this, but in the release, this like big document, Op AI was like, we don't know why this is happening. Yeah. like they can't figure out. And it's because one of the theories is like the data, it's kind of eaten all the data And now it's eating the data that it mayakes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's like synthetic's synthetic dat data or something Exactly.'s synthetic data. Yeah. Are we going to say data or data? I want us to be on the same page. I'm just kidding. But like so there is a theory as to why it's doing it, but like One of the things that again, I just don't hear enough people saying, AI just kind of gets heralded as this new religion essentially, this new God. Well Sam Altman would be like the prophets and all that stuff. But like nobody's really talking about like it' phenomenal at certain things. Yeah and there are other things that a fifty percent chance of hallucinating and that number is going the wrong way. Yeah. So I don't know if it's like code or if it's like But hallucinations that gets better with each update Hllucinations are they're a big deal for if you're going to replace a doctor with AI. Yeah, but for replacing a writer Like Yeah you just, then you just don't do the weird bad part. and just do the good part No, no, I haven't seen Well There was an episode where they were Oh, that's right. table read. Yes. But if look, anybody that's worked in TV, including Michael Patrick King, I'm sure is like, look, we're making some taking What is it called? We're not doing any hyperberty Creative liberties. Thank you because they go to table read with a script. Yeah I'm like, noobbody checked this. Also they' hallucinated from another show. I have been in like writers's rooms where it's like two AM the night before the table read. so I don't think it's like it's crazy actually. Yeah, but someone would catch like Chuck Norris enter or whatever I don't know, I take some comfort in going obviously I mean, like I'm as transparent as you can be hoping that it looks like it's leaning towards a tool instead of this. Even the CEOs of all the three major companies have walked back the like replacing all the jobs narrative. They changed it on the fly. And it's very subtle. I need someone to like cut those things together. And it's I think it's forty eight percent of companies that have replaced their employees with it are like unsatisfied and then a lot of them are hiring them back. That's with full respect to people who have lost their jobs U and that's awful, but I'm seeing some light there where I'm like People are watching these things. like coders have to babysit it Yeah, and writers have to Well what's your personal experience or what are your feelings Well, in terms of Repplacing humans, I'm very narrow self interested. v what that what that would mean for for me. And if if if if A I could consistently write really good one liners and I'd retire. There's no point to do it anymore. Yeah evenven if like someone has to pick which ones to put in a set or whatever, like that's, that's it's it's like is it is it replacing the part of the thing that's rewarding for you and that you feel like you have like an advantage at or is it replacing the part that's that's annoying for you? I mean, it's great if you're like If you're writing a script and you're like, I need to think of a name for this restaurant and it's not and you don't to spend spend like a half hour doing things on a joke ' But it be a pun based Yeahah.. But if it's the other way around where it's like the AI's writing really funny jokes and it's like, okay, now I just need to put in the restaurant names. Then it's like like what are you doing? And that was what it was looking like for a really long time. Yeah It is better at writing I mean, not yet. I mean, but that that I guess would be the concern. Yeah. I wonder if they'll be Again, this is my AI optimism like a return to like The things that are just so distinctly human, like live performance and stuff. Yeah. But you know what I would do? Go ahead tell me. Beuse I'm terrible at improving and crowd work. Yeah. But I just get earpieces in my ear that connect to AI And then anyone could do that and anyone could be an amazing crowdork person. Lve comedian. yeah Okay just I'm not saying that actually No. I know, you'd be a televangelist if yeah. But I can't wait to use the word presuppose because I'm gonna to sound so smart. Mr. Harvard. you haven't flaunted it once and I'm like aggressive towards you No, but that does presuppose that what people like about crowdwork is pererfect line delivered perfectly. True. I actually think like your special is a good example. someomeone, you say, I need a prof I'm going to improvise a joke, you go, I need a profession I'm sorry, I need a place, Milwaukee. I need something you're doing, an activity. Someone says swimming and then someone else says soccer And you go, okay, swimming And then they go Sorry to ruin this part of the espeion. I loved it. They go, That's not what I said. and you go It's what someone said. Yeah. Would Chati PT look I'll actually concede that GPT could say, Dan, I actually think the funniest choice might just be to say the truth. That's in line with your style. You're not a shut the fuck up guy. You don't have to be outrageously clever in this moment. justust say it's what someone said. But like What is this is so me, but what's actually happening in that moment is A trance is being broken. like everybody's being snapped into the immediacy. You special taping and a comedy show and everybody's alive and they it's titillating to feel that way. It wasn't the best line You know what I'm saying? Yeah. So I again AI optimist. I think a lot of great crowd workork We pull clips of my crowdwork the time and we watch them and we're like, No, this sucks But in in the room it was amazing. Yeah. And it's because there's another kind of umami thing happening. Yeah. Well, I mean, yeah, you're right that there there's definitely is like a AI cannot human a human humanitistic, whatever Yeah humanistic quality that the AI cannot capture performances. I'm just thinking more in the future. if you're thinking like, oh, once like like there's no more AI's writing better written bits and jokes anymore than someone like Andy Kindler or, you know, someone that's a great You know, crowd workork comedian, they'll be the they'll be the only people out there getting work. Yeah, But but no because then every random guy that wants to do it will get a little earpiece in his ear and have the AI tell them like great crowd workk. That everything. In a kind of a and because you're so brilliant, I'm like in kind of a Philip K Dick sort of way I wonder if in twenty years Beause you said something interesting, you said you your advantage Like see you and I have an advantage I would never think of it in these terms over the crowd. Like that's the implication. Bketball players have an advantage over the crowd. I'm good at basketball. And so you come and see them exhibit advantage. If you take away that advantage, I'm wondering if in twenty years what will be valuable tryrying to like future markets of what human beings, if it's no longer impressive quick or fast clever What will my daughter? be consuming like well it might be nothing. It might be there might be might be that's not how you get value in your life anymore. being better than other people because that not humans are better than AI but it could also be like chess, where chess has been able to beat any human for a while AI has been able to beat any human for a while at chess, but we still care about who's the best chess player. So everything could become like a competition within itself where it's like we have, you know, comedian competitions where you go up and and you're and you're supposed to like you're given a topic and you're supposed to say best joke you know, and without using AI. And we just appreciate that even though technically an AI could do it better. Yeah, that'll be like a new humbling sort of like look, we're outgunned. Yeah. There might be something beautiful about that. like we lost But lets let's make a painting Yeah Like your kid does a painting for you. It's like the most precious thing in the world. Yeah. So there might be a return to that. There also might I thought you were dririving towards something else that I think is interesting. This world that we live in where again, going to your word advantage, There's something kind of fucked up or unavvolved about that So if you really level the playing field and let's say we do go into like neurolink and we are just kind of like merge with computers in some way, and then everybody knows everything Isn't it possible that like more l fi, subtle things could be The new premium and then that really would be more things change the more they stay the same. Now you really are just looking for the most compassionate or empathetic or silly present or playful person because everybody knows everything. And maybe they'll look back on our time and be like, isn't it fucked up that people that had better childhoods, better educations? sureure.. I'm over like tr big your bras. What's that? It's true commommunis. true communis It's like what communism and I know a lot of people probably like communism is just bad. That's how we've been raised. But like the intent of communism was an altruistic Yeah, trying to equal the playing field. Well, I mean, the point of capitalism is people need incentives to do stuff And if AI AI iss doing everything and we're just, you know, yes, twenty four hours of leisure every day and there's We don't need those incentives, right There's this this is going to seem so forced, but it's in the spiritual text called the courseourse in Miracles and it talks about gratitude and it's like we're not talking about gratitude, I have something and my neighbor doesn't. And it kind of goes like, what kind of fucked up gratitude is that? Like that's insane. Oh that's interesting. Isn't that funny? Yeah. And really, if you are going from like a spiritual all one kind of thing, it's really weird even if it is nice to be like, I'm grateful I have this and Katie doesn't Maybe help Katie.' kind of fuck up. Maybe I hope this is interesting to you. It's very interesting to me. Our kids will grow up in a world where they're like our dads went around and showed off Yeah and then people show off to us, our movie stars show off to us, musicians show off to us. And like if you really are neuro linked or whatever that technology is and everyone can kind of play the guitar We might see more, I don't know. Yeah, Orgies. I'm not even completely joking like what is left? Yeah, what is left? Drum circles. Yeah Burning man, like a burning man kind of where it's meaningless that you're like Well, if you throw that at that speed, it'll land there. Like everyveryone knows that Yeah What's a rocket except a bunch of scientists showing off, really But if you're like, I know everything, I can do that I mean, it'll be a different kind of world. Yeah. It's going to be interesting to see. Yeah. Where are we at time, Katy Oh wow, nice. You want to see what this says? This says broccoli. Oh Isn't that embarrassing? Oh, crank anchors? you were on crank aners. Crank Anchers? Did that ever Here's where my mind goes. If you're doing a show about prank phone calls Did it ever just go like so off the rails Or were you not involved with the performance? Well, we actually were a little bit. I mean, I was there for the it was my first wraring job and it was the last season. I say years later they brought it back, I think. Um that this was in like two thousand three thousand four. And and yeah, they would always have a couple writers in the recording. help with basically' very low tech. You just have a marker board and you write things Hold them up Oh really, Fatty? Just says hadready heard about my over You sound heavy Th you get a check? Yeah, you get a check. It just always seemed so mean praying phone calls. I'm not trying to this is Yeah. No they are kind of mean. I mean, I do remember and I was this this is not my idea and I was not involved in this and I was not there for it or anything. It's just what I heard, but it was like they had U Uh, was his name Jack Osborne Oh yeah. O on this was I think during the time of the That's a reference by Eugene Gene Belcher. And he the I think that the premise was like U tellelling them that this calling up a band and saying they won a thing And I don't remember the dets, but it's like something. But then when you he tells them the thing they want and what they have to do for the thing, it's like, inccreasingly ridiculous.. But then like the the like person whose job it is to call people after and get them to sign a waiver Everyone was like, so was like, o, I thought we I thought our band finally made it. Yikes. U So I guess that was the most off the rails thing. Oh no no. That's why like fake lottery tickets like that win. like just like pranks are hard especially for neurospicies that are like, I don't understand what it iss gamed. What was gained by those? Yeah. there's one funny thing where you remember this is it's weird they have this character. I guess culture is changing again today, but like special ad. Yeah, special gymntally yeah, disabled.. And I had an idea and this is like one of my Like I feel like every day I'm supposed to write I don't know, ten ideas and I would have three good ones and seven filler ones. so I could say I had ten.. I mean, ideally, I would have more good ideas, but you're like Th these three are great. Yeah. you have have two. Yeah. So Oh that's a big, that's like a big what spicy, What do you call? spicy thing? Yeah. Why are we pretending I get yes. That's crazy. the number fingers we have just so happens to be the number of ideas you need Yeah And thirty three percent is just the amount that P plus should give me free more. Like this is just fucking nuts. That is not thing. That did drive me crazy. It did drive crazy. But anyways, my point is one of my filler things was that he calls like scientific American to tell them an experiment he did that they could publish where he like put I don't It's like made a volcano, like with baking sod and vinegar. Yeah. And like it was just like, obviously like they're just hang up or whatever, but I need a filler thing. But they did it and then the guy they got was like was like So it's like what? That's like an elementary school. Like he was like so outraged that someone would suggest this and too like it worked one hundred percent seriously. it somehow worked. Yeah. I don't know if that erired or not. Well I can't believe you're wasting my time with this. What is this some sort of prank? He really gets it, but doesn't at all. Yeah, that's fantastic You know, I've been, uh My buddy Alistair just did this podcast. and he was like, you didn't even ask me about God. And I was like, sometimes I just don't And then I'd realize that sometimes maybe the guest wants to. Do you have any take on the meaning of life? takeake I mean I was a philosophy major. so really I thought a lot about it But not nothing like like nothing very pithy that I could say you got to compent a banal platitude. I'd love a banal platitude. No, I guess a good way in is I love your joke about God like I have a god complex. Meaning I just really don't want to exist. Yeah. But my favorite part is the tag, you go If you're religious, I'm talking about one of the gods from the other religions. I thought that wasrilliant. I always feel like I need to tell that tack because I don't want it to seem mean or like It was great. Yeah, yeah. I mean, like as someone who You I don't know if you're aware. like I believe that awareness is another word for God or being. Yeah So When I hear someone make a joke like that, I'm like, it's T to me the funniest joke is not this isn't to win against you as a god, whatever I'm just saying like it's funny to use the mystery, the mechanism of consciousness to deny any other mysteries is very funny to me. But I didn't take that joke as you're any realer than the a. Oh no, that joke. Yeahah, just any joke is just a connection. like what's a twist on this expression? Totally. I would so would First of all, I thought in one of your specials, like you had an amazing analogies like the Harry Potter author. Oh yeah, that I knew that That was like one of that like that was like a rare thing that like blows my mind on like an actual Oh good. L thought level, not just like comedy bit. I really appreciate that. But but I would say that I I definitely I believe in science. I I believe in like in any version of God that is compatible that. L this sounds like your version is compatible that.. I don't think it's I don't think it's very likely that there are miracles and I don't think it's very likely. I wouldn't even say I'm like donon't believe in an afterlife, but I think I think it's very unlikely that the afterlife has any connection to like if you're a good or bad person I'm with that Yeah, I'm with that. Or I would even take it further and be like the afterlife having anything to do with you Yeah. like the idea that your cobbled together identity, which is just a series of beliefs and and concepts. Yeah that is somehow substantial and that's going to travel through a portal and it'll be there after the dis. I think There is a disintegration. There is a death of something Yeah. and then there might be anence I believe there is an essence that would in quotes, continue, but even that presupposes time. Like it's very human to be like we're on this line of time and I am Dan. and Dan dies. But Dan keeps going. like Yeah that is too simple for me as well. Yeah, well there there's the fact that T like Well for mean, science, I don't think has solved the hard problem of consciousness, like why we have actual experiences. So and the afterlife is just if those experiences can continue or not right And there's also just like, have you heard of like Boltzmann brains It's basically, I'm sure I'm like butchering the actual idea, but this is idea that makes sense to me, which is like at you know, you know how like the longer you the longer More time passes that The more likely it is that even really unlikely things happen. Like the like if there's, you know the if there's like an infin number of monkeys just typing randomly, one of them is going to type Shakespeare whatever. So it's like if like how it's so unlikely that like, Whatever that like all the atoms of your brain once you die would someday reconnect as a brain. But after a long enough time, it's inevitable that even unlikely thing. Right. This like the idea that there's a multiverse, but we're holding ice cream conates. Because if they're infinite universes And then there's then there's stuff like that. It's like if we don't know about the hard problem of consciousness then how do you know that it can't jump to other universe? How do you know anything? So it's like that's why I think I don't think But I mean, the other side, well, Molton Ms is just our own universe. I think that the what is it called Boltzman? Boltoltzman Bolzman. I may have pronouncing a name wrong. But But there's other thing as that's just assuming the probability is constant If the probability keeps going down over time because the universe keeps expanding, then I don't think that the mouth works out as well, But but then there's, you know, or there's like the if it's If it's a simulation, then you wake up and you're actually an alien or whatever. There's how, you know, there's or if just the passing of time is an illusion and we're all We're all every moment at once. That would would just experience it as one at a time. Right. That's what a human is is a way to experience. Yeah. It's a way to dw d out. I don't think you can't they're not connected in a way that they can You can feel them all at once. but yeah, so I just think I don't I don't think any I don't think science can like justify any version of the aphrolight, but I I also just think it can't just because you'd have to have a theory of of experience that we don't have to rule it out. It can't really ru it out either. Right Yeah, no, I'm with you. I think you have a healthy suspicion of those self serving models, which I used to have for a really long time, which Pete