A Hilarious Debate About Reality

Lemonder. You made it weird with me Holes. What's happening, weirdos? This is a very big episode. Obviously, this is Maya Hawk who you love from stranger thingsings The movie Do Revenge. She's my haawk. I sort of can't believe she's here. I'm so glad she is. We had an awesome chat. We'll get to that very, very quickly. just a couple things to plug up top. My kids book, spepells to cast on yourour parents. Boom, there it is to a book that makes You know, the kid casts a spell makes the person, the grown up reading it to them Do ridiculous things. It's funny, it's fun, it's light and it kind of teaches kids how to read. So that's kind of a win. That's kind of a win there. There's also my tour dates which are all on Pethomes dot com. silly silly funun boy, which is my newest special is on YouTube d. com And also on may twenty fourth which is a Sunday at ten AM. We are going to be releasing I am Not for everyone, which was previously on Netflix Also for free on YouTube, but we're going to do a premiere on Sunday, may twenty fourth. So if you love that special or if you haven't seen it before and been wondering where it was It's the first group. If the first group loved it and wondering where it went. We're putting it on YouTube on Sunday, may twenty fourth. and I'm going to be there live chatting with you guys ten AM when we upload it on my YouTube channel for everyone to have everyveryone to have for free. Uh and pinomes. com Denver, who cares? L lot of good ones up on there Largo here in LA H hope you can be there U, in the meantime So glad you're here. Myaya haawk So so happy this happened. You're about to enjoy it. Thank you for joining G into it Study and play! Come together on a Windows eleven PC. And for a limited time, college students get the best of both worlds! Get the unreal college deal, everything you need to study and play with select Windows eleven PCs. Eligible students get a year of Microsoft three hundred sixty five Pmium and a year of Xbox GamePass Ultimate with a custom color Xbox wireless controller Learn more at windows d. com slash student offffer. Law Supplies last ends june thirtieth, terms at aka. mS slash collllege PC I am so obsessed with your show. What show? You're crashing. Oh, no way, really? Yeah, it's so amazing. I know that? I have so many questions for you about it. I really like You're welcome. Are we rolling? I'm glad we got the compliment. Yeah. It's important to get to capture the compliment. Capture the authentic compliment. That is for you Yeah. My magic mind. See Kidis. Awesome. Does it does it work Oh, you'll love it I love it. Do. Am I gonna be like goofy? Shake it up first? No, no, no. You won't be goofy It's like a little caffeine. Do you do caffeine? Yeah, do caffeine. You'll love it. It'll be just fine. It's just like a little bit of matcha, but some other stuff. By the way, I wasn't going to mention this, but so two nights ago, Katie, you should know this like everyone should know this. I have to make like an announcement. I did these shows in Dallas and then after the show, my wonderful opener, lovingly, graciously gave me a little edible. She was like because I don't do a lot of pot, but if I'm going to do it after a nice long weekend of shows, that's a nice little break I, uh I was like, how much is it It's a little gummy. she goes it's one hundred and fifty m milligrams And I just think she's wrong Katie, your face Im This is on me. You think she's lying. I just think there's no way that It must be ten The whole bag must be one hundred fifty milligrams. Yeah so I like how many gummies are in the bag, tenen gummies in a bag. I That's what thank you for understanding. Lgical conclusion to come to. Bea I'm like no one hands someone a gummy That's one hundred and fifty milligrams. No, it's insane. If anybody listening doesn't J pot That's an insane amount of f. fififteen times a big dose. I eat a gummy sometimes to go to sleep. The entire box of gummies is ten milligrams. That's what I mean. One gummy is two. If I take ten, I'm like, it's like a huge experience for me. What we say in our house, we take when we get two stoned we go, drive safe Becauseuse my little sister last Christmas Like there were some people that were really annoying her like at the house over for Christmas. and she was like, I can't handle this. And one of them went, mayaybe we should kind of get going soon. She goes, Drive safe she was so stuned. She would like leave even before they would put their stuff in the bag. dririve safe. Drive safe That's a great two stone line. It's a great two stone line's like Drive safe. Drive safe. I like drive safe too because it's not stopping anyone from leaving. It's like I'm okay with you leaving. Yeahefe. I love drive safe. we don't have to go through it beat by beat, but I am pretty foggy. like I You ate this weeed gummy. No, this was yeah, it was two nights ago. Sorry yeah, we got off the subject. No, no, no. You're the subject. No, and I don't want to start with a long story. I do want you to know where I'm going from You're coming from one hundred and ten milligrams. No, I ate half of it. Okay. Because she said we were in Texas and she's like, the weed here is not as strong. It's called delta nine. Oh my Godd. Wait, this is what they did after I ate it. too. So I ate it they They were like, don't worry, it's delta nine. It's not strong. I eat half of this thing That's seventy five. seventy five. Dude. But I'm like it's seventy five of some like Mormon like Utah weed. Like I thought it was like the Latter day Saint weed And I ate it. It wasn't LDS. It was LSD. It was strongest It was one of the strongest drug experiences I've ever had in my life. Okay, so when I was working out in Atlanta, Christian and I were both out there and like, you know, weed's not really legal there yet. and so yeah, they have like a weed day festival. It's like legal to carry, but not to buy or something like that. It's one of those It's in a journey they can't stop you you, but like just just go all the way. But they have these weird things there. Remember Atlanta is also in Georgia. You remember unfortunately for You forget. But anyway, so they sell these sodas at the store that' are like delta nine sodas. And I was like, oh, this is fun. Yeah. So we started because like, you know we would go to the store and buy these delta nine sodas. We' like, this is great, this is awesome. A week goes by of having like what I think we're dumb now. Yeah. Like we got the Dlta nine just like it's not quite like it's not sixties flowers and rainbows and like I have a cool idea. It's I have no idea. It's like the clonopin of weed Like shut your bra. It's like it's like,oo. Y. Powered down.. If you take thirty times what you took, it's it was just a psychedic. What happened? It was a psychedelic. Well, the funniest part is what you were saying like deelta nine this. I took it and then I was like really worried that I had just taken separate. Like it just it kind of hit me out after h it Yeah. And then the person who gave it to me was like, don't worry it's not that strong. And then someone else in the room was like, no, I took Delta nine once. I took like ten and I tripped. I like tripped and I'm just like trying to stay calm. I'm in the green room of the club and like I just show or post show. This is after, thank goodness. So I was in a good state. Yeah. a good set. Yeah. and setting. I was I don't know about the setting, but all I did was I was like, you guys need to get me out of here. You need to get me. I need to be in my hotel right now. And once I got to the hotel, It was amazing. It was glorious. It so easily could have gone the other way. But it was glorious. It was glorious. I kept looking at the room and going, this is I was alone. Like it would have been a funny scene in an indie movie. It's the kind of thing that's hard to act. Yes. Be but when you're doing it, you're like, oh, people really do do this. Yes It's hard to remember that as an actor. It'er very hard to remember. Sometimes it really is stupid. And sometimes it is cliche. I was looking at my hands, that's cliche. Yeah. And I was going to the room I was going No notes to reality. I was going, no notes. I couldn't have meant it more and I was, I was loving myself. Like I wasn't doing it to like cope. I was going, you are a beautiful boy. Oh You're a beautiful boy. And I meant it. so beautiful. It was just like a sauna. It was like a hot tub of love. That's so beautiful. And I was kind of like, please be gentle with me. Yeah. J kept the lights on I slept with the lights on because when I turned them off, I was like, no, no, no, no, no, no no no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. You drive safe. That's Funny. Well, the reason I tell you is I'm so excited. I took a sauna when I got home to sweat it out and I've exercised twice because I was like, I don't want to be foggy because I'm excited that you're on the show. Well, I'm excited to be on the show and you don't seem foggy at all. and also I deeply understand and I love I'm a beautiful boy. It was so emotional. It's beautiful. It was That's my favorite thing that sometimes happens when you get stoned is like profound gratitude. get into that. Like we're on tour right now and we were in San Francisco and like the hotel had a balcony. Yeah. And we went out on the balcony and like got a little stoned. It was me and Christian and our fiddle player, Odessa, who's in the band with us I was done. And I was looking at the view and you ever see a view? like how you know how the internet has ruined our life? Because now when we look at a view, we're like it looks like a screens saaver. Yeah. So it's like kind of a full screensaver view. pr that you just said. you're like, wow, I guess we can wake this up and it's a desktop. Or it's your phone. Yeah, it's just like Yeah, you're right. The most beautiful things now look like screensavers wallpapers and screens saavers. Yes. My friend, sorry to interrupt, but Michael Gunger, who's another amazing musician. He has a credit he was on He did a sensory deprivation tank, and I think he was on some drug. and then he came out and he was paying for the time with his visa card. And the wallpaper, I guess you can say, of the visa card was the Milky Way And he was like tripping and he's like, we're here and then like We came here and we got to a place where we put pictures of our galaxy on our money That's drug funny. It's kind of funny to us, but if you're on drugs, that's the funniest It's a cliche. It's another cliche. It's another diversion from the story that I was trying to tell, but that was also not a good story. No you were on a balcony looking at a screens scen. Yes. But I also weirdly watched a video the other day of someone talking about the fact that they got off social media because they saw a picture from the top of Mount Everest And they were like, I didn't do anything to earn this view. Like this is a view that people have crawled over dead bodies to see. Yeah. And now I'm just like, cool next That's a lot what I just said you've already you've already really kind of Well, I'm in a vulnerable way. You've shifted my brain. They're absolutely It's not someone else's take. I don't remember who. But it's like' it's funny. I was just taking a very strong dose of drugs. That's the risk with drugs too is they give you a great feeling with no effort whatsoever. Yes. You could say that about most things. It's not just drugs. I mean, people are like drugs or drugs buts roller coaster All sorts of stuff. Well, yeah, at least there's some courage involved in a roller coaster. But I know what you mean like seeing the photo of the top of Everest or even seeing the pictures from You know, the space satellite Totally. It's like, wow. Would you go to space Me neither. No I don't care at all Zero. zero, I care zero percent. Zero. I don't w to go. I'm not interest. How many movies do we need where a sad dad is sending fucking Zoom messages to his family as he dies in a tin can? No, no. Aerere they doing that to discourage us? Is it really awesome up there? Who knows, but I think not. I think any place where you're like eating like freeze dried I've bought that candy at the science museum. I don't you wanna eat that forree. Wh it always Neapolitan too Can I just get chocolate I don't wantan to fight through bad strawberriry. just have a mozzarella stick of vanilla and then eat the chocolate. justust give me the chocolate. So you're on the balcony and I'm on the balony. Are you saying it unlock gratitude? Is that I had a profound moment of gratitude. But weirdly it was like transmuted in a way that things don't normally like feel good to me, but I was like, whoa My simulation is awesome. Whatever space alien is playing the video game of my life is doing such a good job. Like, o wow, I'm on this balcony. I'm having a fight about the pope with the love of my life. And like and I am so Like and it's so fun and I'm having such a good time. and I'm like and it's beautiful. And I just played a sold out show Yeah. And like, what do I have to complain about? Like this is am I love my simulation. It's beautiful. This is incredible. I don't know. Again, I'm not a huge weed person, but every once in a while I'll take an edible or something and it drops me into that place of like And I'm not trying to brag. this isn't like a rise and grind motivational video But I look at my house and I go, I bought this with like talking about my butt And that's not. there's a way to say that that's a brag. And there's a way to say that where you're like, I can't believe how lucky I am, how fortunate I am that that like where you were in the culture was valued or something you had to say, like right place, right time Whatever you want to say.it built you a house. Yeah. It's beautiful. And the circumstance. I'm getting more and more into that like I was just so there's this podcast called Barry's Economics. I was watching it and they just talk about It's another comedian named Barry. and he was talking about how they really underplay people tend to underplay not just luck, but like time and place, circumstance and all that sort of stuff. and then L like take a billionaire talks about what he did and really what he's doing is kind of What I'm saying is and I'm guilty of this too. Like, Oh get up at six and take a cold plunge and it's like that's actually not why you made it at all. Not at all. At all. No. It's what you started doing it after you made it. Yeah. maybe it feels good and that can be enough. Yeah, yeah, yeah. maybe just that. Maybe the fact that it feels good and that makes you happy right now. R. Well turn it into this like restaur R and grnt. we don't wantan to think The point that Barry's economics was making is like so many people follow all the protocols and it doesn't happen. Oh yeah. So the gratitude for me now has a bigger dose of like Holy shit, the Plinko went all these d do you know what Plinko is? you're only twenty thousand I feel like the fact that you did this with your hand makes me think it's a ball you drop down and like falls through little It's a puck, but yeah ye Yeah. okay's o, I'm glad this is why we talk with our hand. Yeah. it work this is why you film the podcast. That's right. But you don' m this. It's bigger on audio than's on videos so people are gonna have to come over to the YouTube. watch you do the blink. I don't like the word luck But I do like the appreciation of context I think that's moment of gratitude was like, I'm so grateful to the alien playing me in this video game because it didn't feel like it had anything to do with me. I don't think it does. felt like just total lucky like just moments of luck that like the one thing that I actually do feel has to do with me is like my relationships, and I don't know if you feel this way But like Friendships and relationships and how you work on them and how you take care of them Yeah feel like a better representation of like your effort and energy in this world Yeah than like your career or the you know, like your circumstance that led you to this place. but I do feel like I don't know, O I hope that your relationships are and they involve luck ' how did you meet this person? How did this happen? What happened to them to turn them into the version of this person that is right for you? Y. But then there's also so much work that goes into it. And that's like one of the only things I feel proud of in my life is like the work that I put into sustaining my relationships I mean, look, not I'm going give myself three referencing how young you are because that is something you tend to figure out later in life. That's all I'll say. Oh, just I have no Call me young. thing. I remember I made a joke about Bau Burnham being young when I interviewed him on my talk show and he was not chill about it. I He was fine, but I could tell I had touched a touch maybe touched a nerve. It's hard to tell with Bau. But I was like, I don't wantan to do that to you. You're twenty six. I'm twenty seven. Sven. But I wonder if there's a thing, like I remember it used to bother me when people told me I was young when I was like twenty four But I wonder if twenty seven is already old for an actress. Oh yeah. So I'm like, no call me young. Yeah. we're done with you. twenty seven? Yeah. No, it's old for Leonardo DiCaprio. I've gonna be an actor for a lot longer. No, totally. But it's like, I don't know, I wake up All the time and I'm like, oh my God, it's over. I didn't, I mean, this is shows you how crazy. I'm like, I didn't make it before I was twenty two and now you'll never make it Re And which is funny becausecause most people will be like, didnn't you make it are talking about? Yeah, but like are you touching on something that's very real even when you've made it and whatever that And I do think that means something I do think there is a making it. I kind of take issue when people are like there is no making. There is a making. There's a making Pe make it don't necessarily experience themselves as having made it, but that doesn't mean there's not a making it. There is a making it And that has a lot to do with, you know, finding expression, not feeling all that frustration that you wna like prove yourself and make your mark and all that stuff. That's real. And when that gets what I was it just even has simply do with being able to take care of yourself by doing the thing you love. That's making it. I completely agree So that's making it, what was the other thing we were saying? Oh, feeling I should have made it. Yeah. So is a very different thing. Very different. I know a lot of people who have made it You could say way more than I have, but they don't it. Yeah They didn't sign for the delivery of fulfillment showed up and they just kept getting UPS slips on their door that said the fulfillment was here and they just weren't home. It's so true. I was like I had a big my fulfillment delivery once came in the mail after called the Amazon Fulfillment Center. Yeah, this podcast is brought to you by Amazon Fulfillment Center. We're not But we are add promo code weird for twenty percent added. but isn't it weird? It's called fulfillment. Yeah. Anyway, the riff works on one level,. but wait wait, sorry, this is a real thing When you miss a package, you get an email from the Amazon fulfillment. Oh, o sorry. I thought it was this was a joke about Thats whoa. Yeah, yeah, when you get a package, it's from the Amazon fulfillment center. Whoa, crazy. I was that makes sense. Okay, I didn't take up on tears. But I was walking down the street and I was talking to Christian and he was like, that' Chr husband. Christian L Hudson is my husband call hand My husband. Hband and Christian Lee hband He's your new husspand. He's my new hotspand And we were walking down the street and I was talking about like my ambition and which is like a lot of what this record that I made is about. But I was like talking a lot about my ambition, like how unhppy it was making me that I was a failure and that I was never going to work again after training that was going on. And he was like, all right, I just have a question. L when would it be enough? Like when what described to me the circumstances that would have to happen for you to feel like you'd made it. Yeah. And I got quiet for a long time And then I had this like Eureka moment I was like, o when it was too much. The only time I would ever feel like I'd really made it is if I'd ruined my life Wow I' made it so much that I was unable to do the things that I loved. That's when I'd be like, oh, definitely I'm successful enough. You need to walk by like a toppled statue of you. Yeah. Like you were the leader and they toppled it. and you're like, I did make it. I did make it though And that realization that that's what I was aspiring to. Yeah changed my life. Yeah I was like, oh, okay, cool. L I need to shift. Yeah. because that's not, I don't want to ruin my life. Yeah. I don't want the topped statue And you realize you might have inherited a set of dreams from a culture that doesn't really care about you. You know what I mean? Like you see that as like the thing. You're supposed to and then like when are we going I'm curious if we ever will like turn on Taylor Swift, for example. likeike willill there be a time when everybody? I'm not trying for a hot take. I know you're also doing music. That's not what I'm like, You know what I'm saying? Like it's like we make things and then we eat them. Well, I mean, I think that would what she would probably say is that that's happened many, many times. Oh ye. And the thing that is special about her is that she like continues to kind of like re innovate herself and be kind of born again and come back and then like I do think that no matter what happens with your circumstance in this industry, right? L if as imagining different variants of doing OK in the arts. that if you are rooted in a core of craft you can weather the storm of being made a statue of and had a statue topped it again't down seriously. Or you do, but you can weather it because your craft is there. Like I'm sure you would say this like if everything went to Hell in a handbket and you have a hand basket. At least you have a hand basket and you'd probably be like you'd figure it out. You'd find a way to keep doing comedy because you're great at comedy and you love comedy. And that's a craft that you have and a tool and you could do it. But you could go back to where you started or you could figure out something else to you know like but you've got that basis in craft.. And anyone who has a basis in craft I think can can weather any sort of storm. Right, which is why and I'm not trying to drag anybody, but that's why the modern day influencer is more shaky. We just go like' you worry about them. Yeah, you worry about them. Beuse it's like what It's like just it can be I'm not thinking of anybody in particular right now. I'm just saying it can really blur the line between art and commerce. and then you do become about numbers and you're kind of like your own network trying to sell something Yeah or you might be just trying to sell something and you're not held to do something. likeike you don't have like an artistic compulsion that gets you out of bed in the morning. you're like getting up, it kind of breaks my heart You're getting up to check like the stats on some video. Yeah instead of writing down a line s For a song or an idea or yeah. And like I mean, some people are performance artists, right? R? Like like sometimes I look at some influencers and I'm like, oh, like Are you connected to the tradition of Maria Bromovk? Like are you Are you trying perform is this performance art? Yeah. And sometimes I think it might be. And then maybe that person like, you know, global internet influcer Some You think some influencers are like going for it like in another level? A like performance artists. Yeah. Yeah. And it's funny because Andy Warhol was sort of famously like he was totally an influencer. That's what I mean Yeah, he was just like, I like making money. I like making things that people sell. I like making people talk about the same thing. Yeah. So yeah, he was there is It's funny that I will give him a pass because he was doing it with a camera You know what I mean? as opposed to an app. Yeah. but he was doing Well, when just this is a new frontier right And it's unclear what it's going to be. It's very clear what a lot of it is. But there's definitely interesting and amazing creative people who are like getting their start that way. Right and are trying to figure out what to do with that and do interesting things on it. That's just their trumpet. Yeah, that's their trumpet. And I think there are some people who use that as their trumpet who if the global internet went down, you would find them on a street corner like putting up, I don't know, like like weird beach umbrellas that had different words on them and being like, stand under this beach umbrella if you believe in Jesus. Stand under this umbrella if you believe in Allah And now everybody hug. like I don't know, like And then a breeze blows all the ubrellasows down and then everyone laughs and he sings and and he jitters and he like and then and like makes everybody hold hands and primal scream. I don't And like that could be interesting. Yeah ye It's funny, I don't know. I loved it. What are you nuts? I was just trying to think of what SPF Jesus is. someome umbrellas you said under them, you're still getting a burn Just know that. tr. That's wisdom That's wisdom. You got to put on some block. You gotta put on some blocks. When did your mom break 'acauseuse I feel like young. It was young. Young. I was just thinking about Lma Thurman on the way in because, you know, that's your mom. I'm related to her. 'use you related to her. But I was like I was thinking about your mom on the way in. I mean, I hope so. Yeah. My mom's in Kill Bill. She's anonymous Asian dead number thirty That's how she's credited. It says Anonymous Asian dead number thirty, Ireinna Holmes. And Quentin was so mean to her I don't know why I'm saying any of this. It's incredible. But Kill Bill is the thing that most people, like she Pul fiction. Really Well Yeah, why am I telling you? you tell me? Pul I would say well how old was fiction Pke her. Like that was she was nominated for Best Actress. Right. Like Best supportorting actress. and like she was younger than me at the time. I don't remember how old, but younger than me. Really? Yeah And then Baron Moonschausen was before that and dangerous Laison She was before that. She said you a woman. Yeah Y mom is like a classy woman. She always grown. So I can't believe she was. She's the most dignified person I've ever met. So I can't believe she was Yeah, I didn't even think of that. Yeah, she was really hum. She has like a, um elegant like a Her fingers are like piano keys. Yes, rightight? Yes, she has a very But don't I feel like seeing you here, having seen you in movies and TV and stuff, but seeing you in person, my first thought was like you're looking more like your mom. Is that like a thing? Yeah, sometimes when I get on TV, I like start doing this thing. And like I got this whole guy that like is like, I don't know, you know, And like I don't know if I develop that guy to try to not be compared to this guy Or something, I don't know what exactly. it's hard to be measured. It's hard to be measured. P porcelain. Yeah. But I remember going to Woodstock, New York and someone was like, that's Uma Thurman's house. Oh, really? Were you Is that true? Yeah, my grandparents live there. My grandparents are on one hill My my mom's in the vally and mom on the Thurman lives there Yeah I didn't who Ive beening to talk to who was one of the things on my list of things to talk to. It's on my list too, because I him at a round us retreat He's very interesting person. Well for the first thing I ever saw of you is a joke that you tell about people who believe in nothing And it really reminded me of my grandfather because he always talks about the nothing people.. He calls them the notothing people and is like, they have their own religion They worship Nothing But it but nothing is something. And like it's and that religion has practices and belief systems and ways that you can get cast out of it. And like he'd kind of talks to Its like cardinal sins of the notothing people. Yes, there are. Yeah, ye. If you like hear a voice or have a vision or disagree with a statistic or theyre like, you know, or are like it's kind of There's a big They're it's hitting and he would say like it's not that I don't believe in science or like I do, but people who think it's important that you only believe in science are as dogmatic. as Any other This a Bobby therm. This is what old Bobby Bobby tea talks about Thanksgiving He gets into it He likes talking about it. What I remember about seeing, first of all, I'm not surprised When I did that joke, I was like, I kind of can't believe I'm the first person to get to make this joke. because that it's an amazing was right there. It's a brilliant. It's an incredible joke. I really appreci. It made me, yeah But he's a Buddhist. Yeah And Buddhists are big nothing people, But it's the luminous emptiness. The keyword has to be the luminous. Yeah. So But he doesn't speak about the nothing people in a derogatory way. Right. When you say nothing people, it sounds quite derogatory. But that's not what he means. just he just means that like That's also That' is what I'm trying to do in the joke. that you did you do very well. believe in nothing, you also, but it's not like nanny, you believe in you believe in a magical nothing. It's like, no we all believe in nothing. We all believe in not a thing. In a mysterious like dark matter, right? It's like a mysterious invisible power. I know that controls the universe and we don't know like Right tootally. yeah, man. Right. Yeah, you write that one down. like science I see this all the time. I see it in science that is very interested in space. I'm interested in space as well, but I think what they're to use a Rupert Spyer word, what they're tasting when they behold the enormity of the universe is their own inner enormity. They're tasting their own essential nature. Some people get it from looking at a telescope photo. Yeah. And some people cant I can't speak for anybody. I sometimes get it from a telescopic photo I sometimes get it from sitting quietly, but it's the same vastness. The space of the universe and the space yourour inner space are actually the same. One of the things I get it from the most is thinking about The vast like the way that a brain scan looks so much like a picture of space. R? Like if you just look at neurons zpping around, it looks so much like the sameeness of things on different levels of size. Yeah, ye yeah. And is that really all It's called Lee LI. It's the study. It's a Chinese art of looking, I think it's Chinese, looking for patterns that look the same the way that like When you're flying over a mountain, it looks like the back of a turtle. Yeah. Like everything is a golden ratio. everythingthing is like yeah It' exxactly the fibon The Fibonacci series. T dumb dum s saying fib., I'm dum.'mum. I went to a stiner' school and I learned about the Vibonacci sequence by talking about rabbit sex. Oh And I couldn't explain to you. I've tried since. I remember learning about that I couldn't explain to you how it works, but it's like rabbits have sex with first rabbit My seventh rabbit. Yeah. and it was my teacher was like are what's the word for people polygamous rabbits She was like, we're gonna learn about the Fibonacci sequence by talking about polygamous rabbits. So you had Polygamous andestuous rabbits because you have to be okay with the rabbits Yeah In order to really get there and to understand it, you have to be okay with rabbits having sex with their own family. And yeah, well, in the Fibonacci example. Okay. order under it was a metaphor. Okay, I thought you were really No, it was a metaphor to understand the fibacci secrets by talking about rabbits and that's why you should all send your kids to a Seiner school because they're awesome. Because you had dyslexia and you went to a school where they had no grades. I also went to school where they had I first went to a really hy toidy school called Breerly, where like girls wear uniform. It was like Breerlely. Breery? Breery. Breery. Breerly, The Breerley Beavers. It's an all girl school. You can't be an all girls school called the Breery Beavers. Yes, you can T what? Yeah, T what am I asking about? What what am I talking about? Yeah. Wow. It all girls schoolool called the Bry Beavers And where that's their mascot. They're just called Brewerly. And I went there until third grade and then in third grade they were like, So we think your kid's been tricking us and that she can't read But she's been tricking us into thinking that she can read by memorizing books. And Is that what you were doing? Yeah And then they were like, so now she can't go to school here anymore. And so then I went to a school for kids with learning disabilities. They were bboting you for being like a little genius? They were like, we probably think that she would be best fit. We'll keep her if you want, but we think she would probably do better somewhere else. My daughter sometimes does that. I think all kids, you were just doing it. I was severely could not read. Right. Let me not mince words. I couldn't read words Sanreino I could look at the first letter and be like, and I see a picture of a hat and that one starts with an age H Oh, but look, again, I love twenty twenty six for so many reasons. One of them is like the benefit of the doubt for kids. I go like, this isn't intelligent in the way that we want or that our intention, but it is intelligent in this other way. And we just didn't have that. You the ag. we were like, No, you dumb. You didn't get that. You got dumb Nom I'm listening to you being like, oh, she saw a picture of a hat on H. that's a type of intelligence. Yeah. That's great. And you tricked a bunch of grownups for a while? Yeah,'s thank you. Cheers. It's good. Good job. But I'm glad I then went to a school for dyslexic kids and learned to read. and then I went to a Steiner school and then I went to another school that didn't have grades. What's a Steiner school A W of school.. like Yeah, great salads, great crayons, great pens. Um So you found the education you needed. Yeah. And then because I had loving parents who were like, what does this kid need? And then like did research and went like probably here Yeah, yeah, yeah By the way, your album is so good. What is it called? My Trea Corsso? My Trea Corsso I didn't know that Yeah, that's what it's called Wait, what does that mean? My? So ye My T of Corsso. whole press tour by the way. Ding Dong's like me going, what is that? No know, it's just a name. Yeah. It's like it's just a first and a last name of a person. And it's like it's like a gom de plume. This is It was Gain's album. Yeah. was but it's like it was a name that my that it was gonna get my mom wanted to name me, but then I didn't get named And I've kept it and I like it And I' been reading a lot of fantasy literature in the last year and like obsessively and like really loving it and feeling very inspired by a kind of like the mythical self. like the idea of kind of a larger, more mythic self and a symbol? Yeah. a symbol and a mask. A mask isa Yes. is what the lens through which you made this album? Yeah. I mean, well it's the lens with which through I made all the packaging materials for the album. Okay. which is a thing. Which is a thing.. And like the album itself No, but I do think that the album itself is like strung together as a journey of sort. or that's what tried I tried to have it be a journey towards fulfillment. It feels that way. ends with I'm in love with my life. Yeah Yeah, which was very the whole thing is so beautiful. Thank you. And you have your own style, which I really appreciate. That's not code for like I don't know. Yeah, I feel like people say, you have your own style. I wanted to say that before I told you how beautiful it is and how talented you are and Three songs in I was like, o, you have a way. L you have your way of doing it. Thank. It's not a song we could have given to this person to this person. you kind of do these like Almost like run on sentences, There's a lot of words. lot of words. There's certain things you do vocally that I haven't heard people do that. I really like that are like unique to you. L Thank you. This is your fourth album. Yeah. So it's not a surprise, but it's nice to go like, oh, this person's really finding their their own voice. theirir own voice. Yeah. And it was wonderful. And I told Christian, I I cried so much. cried Um I tried to remember some lines so I think that's what I like when people givear me speech. Yeah me too, me too. I like that. made you? Yeah, exactly. You touch me where time can on. Yeah. I was just lost at on that. Thank you. And isn't I'm going to get this one wrong But there's nothing you need that you don't have right now. Yeah. ye. Pretty Bob Thurman right there. Pretty Bob Thurman. BT Well and Mitrea is the second coming of Buddha. That's what the name means. That's what the name means. Okay L I mean to put it in Christian terms. Yeah ye. Second coming of Buddha. But Buddha never said I'm coming back. No, no, no, no. it would be a different person. It's the next Buddha. I see. But but that doesn't really have anything to do with the record at all but but there's, I mean, but I'm influenced by all of that stuff from my grandfather. There's Buddhist stuff and some ideas. Yeah. And I do see the record as like a journey of I was like pretty unhappy and like a person like plagued by wanting things and kind of on this intense pendulum swing of like Okay, I know everything I want. I'm going run towards it, run towards it getet a lot of it. Oh boy, it's too much. Oh, it's too much. I'm going to drop stuff. I'm going to go back, startart over. Okay. and like this sort of intense um and I wanted to figure out a way to like just do things a little.ave me alone. Yeah to that. Yeah, totally I got some love me leave me alone. Yeah. I got some love me leave me alone. It's big. And ye where did it start that desire to express am I interrupting? No, finish what you're saying? I don't I have no idea. Okay. I was just It's interesting you're talking about like this insatiable like knowing where you were headed. Yeah. When did that show up Be as a father, that's very interesting to me too. I'm like, when what age are you like, Oh, these these are my things. This is what I'm going chase. Well, it's hard to tell, you know, what is a person's individual themess and what is what was encouraged and fostered within them. Right. I do feel like Ethan Hak was probably walking in and handing you ukuleles a lot. Yeah, yeah. Is that fair? That's fair. Like I feel like it must have been an artistic household That's what we was. My daughter too out a banjo two nights ago and just started fucking around with a banjo and I was really happy. Yeah. it was an artistic household. And I think not being able to read was a big deal because you're like looking for stuff that you can do where you like can feel confident because you're not measuring up with the way kids are being measured at that moment in time. Right And so feeling I think there's some you know, there's some like, okay, well, what am I going to do to impress you teacher? Like, no, I didn't do the reading, but would you like to see my poem? L And then like they do want to see your poem because it's not nineteen eighty two, it's two thousand two. And they're like, sure. and then you're like, okay, cool. like, well, that felt good And I think a lot of how I was shaped was like kind of through that. L I wanted to be a lot of other stuff too. like I wanted to be a pooetry teacher. or like a poetry profess.ike I wanted there was a lot of other really a teacher, but I was really not a very effective student. And it became very clear to me around college application time that all my friends Wh some of them I thought were kind of dumber than me were all like getting great test scores on this stupid test. And I was getting really bad test scores. And I was like All right, I think it's trade school Like I think like I think I'm just going to commit to this Like maybe someday someone will give me an honorary degree if I do a really good job Like that was sort of my The honary the best shot you have is an honorary degree is becoming a legend. Y. So a school that wants to be associated with you for marketing reasons will give you a degree. That was my dream. Wow. That was my plan. I just I'm so happy that you found other things because I can relate to going like How am I going fit in with all of this? What am I going to do here? C can't do it. I can't do it and I yeah, ag you can't do have any like fucked out. That was just why? Be you tell me why This is the place that I feel the most myself. Acting in performance spaces with other creative people. This is the place I feel my most myself. I feel confident and capable and strong here. Yeah. I feel like a good leader here. I feel likeful It's like I think sometimes very sensitive. I'm not talking about you. I'm a very sensitive person. And when I do stand up, I just get like this blood transfusion And it's very exciting. It's very enticing to be like, oh, this is what it feels like to be completely comfortable in your skin. And this is what it feels like to have good instincts about something. Yeah. Like, oh, I just had an idea and I said it out loud and then someone else tried it and it worked.. Whoa.. That certainly doesn't happen to me in Chem Yeah, yeah, yeah. L, you know, like for sure. And so I think kind of being led by I think whether or not this is a good thing, I think I've always been led by my strengths and then tried to fill in my weak places that were that would be supportive to that strength. Like but I've always been I always been led by my strengths. I love that. I love anybody figuring out where they feel at home Well, we'll jump back into your story and acting and when that started. What was up with the Pope? Be that's one that Christian Hudson told me to ask you about. Oh, yeah, we willll hit this fight of the Pope because so okay, Christians been making fun of me a lot lately because New York I think is growing up in New York, I think is not growing up in America And I think I didn't know this for a long time. you were in the city or Yes. I was in the city, like going back and forth between the city and up state. But I think that I didn't know this And because I think I thought what New Yorkers think is that New York is a little piece of everywhere. And that if you gre up in New York, you know about the whole world. Yeah,'s because New York has a little bit of the whole world You actually don't know any I mean certainly don't know about America. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's almost like being from a small town. O small town It's from the most exciting country. small country. Yeah Yeah. Its like you're fromoko. p country. what? A port country? you said a ported port a port Totally. There are people that are there's a type of sheltered that New York has. Which is the kind of sheltered that's not like, yeah, well, I've never been out outside of my house. It's a kind where you think you know everything. Yeah. But you actually know almost nothing. R about how the world Christanss been joking about it being like Uh, what if you reverse Harry Potter Like you grew up in the magical world and like your parents are the Weasleys, but like they gave birth to a kid that's like doesn't have any magic and they're like, you got a letter. It's from PS fourteen That's a fantastic idea. Right. What the whole movie is yourverse Harry. Yeah. PS four For people who don't know, the schools in New York are called public schoolchool and a number.. So It's like just a way of saying the most ordinary place. You've been selected to be a muggle. You're just gonna go learn algebra. Yeah. And then they have to go be like So okay, wait, what's this? And it's like a pencil and they're like they like sharpen it and they're like, okay. Yeah. Oh not a bummer though. Sometimes on Christianized trips around the country, I feel like I'm learning about my shelteredness. Like he'll be like, if you ever been to Buck' I'll be like, what's Bucky'? What is Bucky? It's a truck stop, but it's like all I love that you're say even Christian's experience of regular America might not be everyone else's No, no. It's uni It'siversvers It's like a real trucker' stop for like musician. Like it's like It's a real thing and where it'll be like, you haven't been to L, you never been in and out burger or you know And I'll be like Yeah. and they're like you're so uncultured. And I'll be like, well, I bought a chameleon in Morocco Like like that you were not sheltered. you were just in a very specific like ye. not eating a chuck stuff. Yeah for. For say, but it but it's an interesting like thing learning about New York. But anyway we were talking about the pope and for some reason, I think New Yorkers love the pope because New Yorkers don't know about fundamentalist Christians, really. They know about them Hypothetically, but they don't like experience them That's right. because it's all for the most part. and again, I could be totally wrong with everything I'm saying, but like for the most part, it's like Catholics, Protestants and Episcopalians in terms of like the Christian sects that are really around. ye And like kind of the most liberal versions of those things. Y. And it seems so ceremonial and dramatic And like I was a kid in the time of Pope Francis with him being like, I don't know, God could be whatever God is, you know, And we were like, whoa You've probably seen me all over the internet talking about Magic Mind because I'm absolutely obsessed and I drink it every single day. and before every single episode of this podcast, Magic Mind is a functional blend of magical ingredients that help you feel dialed in, focused and energized. And I absolutely love it. They also have something that you might not know about though, which is called Magic Mind Sleep I just updated my Magic Mind subscription to ship me a thirty day supply of Magic Mind every month and a thirty day supply of Magic Mind sleep because it helps me so much, it helps me fall asleep faster, stay asleep longer and wake up feeling refreshed. And the ingredients are incredible. 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He's older I really I have a younger brother and I feel like I really learned about safe fighting from my brother. Yeah. You did a lot of safe fights. We did a lot of safe fight. I mean, they weren't always safe, but the relationship was so safe Yeah that they're sayf Well, that's where family can go You can go past a line that I think friends can't be going Yes because you have to be. You'll still be family. Yeah, you'll still be family, but like they' they are safe with my brother usually. I mean, like sometimes they end with like, I just can't bl. I gott it like. But like but they're always safe, even if they're like, are you freaking crazy? Yeah. Like the biggest fight we got in was about He said that if cloning got really good and I died and they could clone me, he would want that to happen And anyway we don't want this That's not me There' I agree. There's I'm sorry no. Like that and this is my problem. everyvery fight again get brother. You're then you're in the kitchen cutting vegetables and you're crying black blood. Yes. We know where this movie goes. Yeah. Like at the beginning Y, it really seems like you. But then you freeze while you're cutting celery and black blood comes out of your eye. Andre like, so heaven. Yes. And the problem is I lose every fight with my brother because eventually I reveal that my argument actually has to do with my belief in the soul And then he's kind of a nothing person sometimes. And hell be like he'll be like, well, then that's not an argument. That's like and I'll be like, My Y argument doesn't count Yeah, your argument doesn't count because it has to do with me being like, but there's some essential meanness Yeah that is in me that would not be in that clone even if you gave it all my memories. And he's like, what essential meanness? Right. And I'm like, Hmm, what do I say that's not the soul? What do I say that's not the soul? Beause I mean the soul. I had the best. This is a good friendly fight I had about It started off with the question if a tree falls in the forest and and no one hears it doesn't make a sound. I always wonder like, are there insects on the tree? This is what we talked about. But do squirrels count? Squirrels have ears and they can hear a tree fall. I think the original Koan is assuming nothing conscious is there. Yeah, but then it's like, okay, like and but trees actually themselves are semi conscious. But Right, but they don't have an experience that you can report it's like to be them, I don't think There's there's an intelligence but they are communicating with each other Sure. And we know as little about what they're communicating as we know about what dolphins are communicating. I mean, we assume dolphins are communicating like faster fish over there, but like I ye I could be could be like lean left Well they do because of the light. Yeah, I know I know you know. Yeah. Nobody thinks you didn't know. No. I just wanted the audience to know Will you see it enough No, I didn't feel threatened. I just want with respect, I want you to know that a young lady raised in Woodstock, New York trees lean towards the light. But I'm so with you, like I'm ready to concede that a tree might have certainly has more going on than we know. Well, that's a line in your song W that is that song about your dad or did I completely get it wrong? Which one? The one about saying hell talking to trees. That's the only clue'll give you. It's called different. Oh, you tau me to talk to trees. and that spit'll get the blood stains out of your sheets. Yeah, No, it's not. It's not No. But it's qu close Really T about Bob Thermm. No. You don't have to say who it's about. I'll say I was. tell me what what it felt like to you. I was crying the whole song. Thank. I really wanted to share that with you. I thought it was beautiful. whether I don't, I guess it doesn't matter If it was about your dad But I was like thinking about like, your dad? No, I thinkinking about being a dor. Oh yeah And I was like, My daughter is so her own person. So the course is I always wanted to want to grow just like you. It never was an option though. Yeah. You say you see yourself and me sometimes great minds think differently You can see how I thought that was about Ttally. Okay. I'm not dumb. am I? No, no, no.. It's actually it's like from a different person's point of view about their p. Oh, interesting. Yeah. super fun. But like so it makes perfect sense. Right, of course. Well, for what it's worth, what it's worth I'm just saying I think it's an amazing song. I really appreciate it. really I mean, obviously every time you write a song about a different person from their point of view, it's because something in their point of view speaks to your own point of view and what you feel and what I was Exploring in that song is the idea of wanting to understand difference like and trying to carve out your own you identity and your own memories and who you are separate Like in the slow separation from family, my Shrink said something cool where she talked about like separation from your parents is a spiral. You are from New York. My analyst. My Shrink said something cool. She talked about how separation from your parents is like a spiral. not a line. Okay keep revisiting the same trauma points, but you're always a little further away from them every time you come around versus just getting further and No in a positive way. No, I'm saying I'm sorry because it's amazing. Oh, yeah yeah yeah Yeah. I'm like I'morry I didn't expect have my mind blow. Oh, yeah, yeah yeah. You'resolutely right. You're still feeling You're feeling it just a little less. It's like the first time it's a poke like to the liver. and then it's like just like a little ke to the rib H and then really good. Yeah. That's what I say to I'll share this every time it comes up. I say to my parts, like my inner children and all these different protectors, the whole staff. Yeah. I'll get the whole staff. and of your heart everybody. Yeah. I have a whole staff You have the names for them? Of course. Can I hear some? Well, they don't, they're really not names. They're like the orphan. Cool. They're all peete. Yeah No, that's what I my name. I mean I have the princess. Okay, I I have Henry. No, no, no, I have the princess and the child. Oh ye, yeah. And like yeah, and the painter. Yeah. And there's like, I have different names for all the different guys. It would take me down a long road to think of them all. But I love the orphan The orphan makes sense. There's the addict. Yeah There's all these different guys And then there's the king. I don't know if you've had a higher power, like like best self is my king. He incorporates all the parts. My princess is definitely not my best self. I wouldn't think that the princess was.. I'm waiting for the quQeen. Yeah, yeah, yeah. If No, there's well, that's like the dragon. I would call my king would be I'd call the dragon That sounds pretty aggressive though. No, Dragon's beautiful. Okay I don't know what kind of dragon are. I'm picturing Smg. but what I say to my parts is I'm always like I'm not I talk like a politician, but like I like to say like a king, like I'm not saying We're not going to be hurt in the future I'm saying H his expression is the lights are still on. likeike we're okay. Yeah, it is going to hurt It's like, what you would want a benevolent leader to say. likeike it's still, we might get frustrated. We might get hurt, we might get sad. Things could get worse from here. I'm just saying we can deal with it. Yeah. and the team loves it. Yeah team loves that. My team loves it too. So you're on a spiral and you're like, oh, here it is again. Yes, but look That's what the lights are still on means. It's like we're okay. We're okay. We felt it and we're okay. Yeah And the next time it'll be even a little bit more okay. Yeah. We're having the same tootally Exactly It's the same conversation and it's like the different because all the different guys have different ways of protecting you, I think. Yeah. and they're all like were' super useful Usually when you actually had no ability to protect yourself. That's right And to tell them to tell them actually you know, the king and the dragon have entered the building. That's right. And we're strong now. And we don't need your weird little tricky shit. I know. You needed the tricky shit before. Thank you. You don't have to pretend to read anymore. I'm not even trying to be funny. Yeah. like you don't have to trick your way out of this No You can just be on a podcast and say, I couldn't read for a while. Yeah. And that's okay. I can now. I can now. That's okay. I never learned to read from Waynes World two, I wouldn't expect you to get. No Wayne's World maybe, but World two feels a little far. I'll go to Wayneessor. Yeah. Wayneessworld too is a bit much. Bridge overver travel. had you found that type of therapy? It took me a while To do parts work or internal famil. Again, this is lucky New York shit. Lucky New York shit. Like not only did I go to therapy, everyone I knew did. so it wasn't even weird. Right? It wasn't even like when I said to kids at school, I go to therapy. What do you have to do after school today? Thrapy? They wouldn't be like we Oh what are you a free? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, what are you like they'd be like they'd be like, Oh, cool, mine's on Tuesday at lunch. Yeah, yeah yeah. Like Zoom. Yeah. And you're like, I was Zoom Yeah. My parents still and it's just a generational thing won't acknowledge that I go to therapy. Maybe my mom will, but it's kind of like a blank show is your are your parents like your parents in crashing? Yeah They say in fact That was one of the more loving things as they loving moments is they signed u I guess it was an NDA or not maybe not an NDA. It was like, we won't sue you. ' I wanted we wanted to use things that they actually said and things that actually happened. And you were you were worried that okay They were being very Okay. But it ended up being this really, really sweet. I still remember it. Because I felt nervous. I was like, I'm not gonna say anything bad about you. shhit my literal pants if I had to bring my parents Yeah, a piece of paper to. Imagine if they signed it and said as long as it's funny That's what my dad said And I was like, wow, that's tricky. Yeah. I mean, tricky for me, the line blurs, I'll tell stories. I'm very careful about what I talk about with my daughter, but I'm like, my life is I have to do this with other people's families and other people's kids and other people's privacy. I want to tell these stories and I have to run it by them first, but like I don't want Leila to be upset with me later. Someedays she will be about something. But it won't really necessarily be about that thing. It will be about her figuring out sharing. herer individuation her sharing. who she is, what's important to her, what her moral compass of sharing is. and it reminds me, I don't think it'd remind me sharing When we were starting out, Kumel met Zach Alphinakis for some reason. And they ended up having a really long conversation. He was like, I think I'm friends with Zach Alfen this is when we were in our twenties. Yeah And then the Rolling Stone interview with Zach Galfinakis came out and it was all the things he had told Kumel meaning that he had were those were like the things It's like when you meet Lena Dunham, I think she's very public about this. You'll talk to her for fifteen minutes and you'll be like I think we have a soulult connection. She just told me about a time that she some amazing personal thing. And then you read an interview or a book or a podcast and you're like, oh no, these faucets are just on. Well, I think that's often what performers are kind of like. Like I remember figuring this out through dating of like, I dated a I went on a couple first dates with people whoo then were like, I've never had a connection with anyone like this before. Oh, and they just didn't know what a performer was like. Yeah And I was like, oh, I did two hours ago. Like I could have a connection, like a connection like I said all this to the bus driver. Yeah, like wa for real. Yeah. and like, but it's I started I got accused of love bombing a lot because I would be like, no, no, no, no, no not love bombing.. This is what I served. this is the ice cream. I ser. This is all I have everyone who comes to the store. That's right This is all I got. Yeah. We're like salt and straw. We only have weird flavors. Yeah. G, goodood though. Yeah Ver good. Very good flavors.. Good vegan, Katie. Got to santra Their sponsors, use promo code weird inline. Oh, cool. For a strange look from the person making your ice cream. Well, we looped that in so well talking about ice cream. It's no big deal. Wow. It's no big deal. Incredible. I forget who was on this podcast. Somebody said like people are like, if you could have lunch with anybody, who would it be? And sometimes people say Steve Jobs. And they're like you realize all Steve Jobs was doing with full respect was u testing. like would this work? Is that interesting Would you want a phone that's an iPod? like Yeah Ething was just another opportunity to get data. I can't know that about Steve Jobs, but performers, I'm that way. We were hanging out at dinner last night. Me, my wife, our kids and a couple other parents that are friends of ours. and I said something dumb. I'm not even going to say it. And then afterwards I said to Valerie, I was like, I'm sorry. I realized I was just trying a premise. Like I was doing a premise. and that's okay. if you know the deal, meaning like, I'm not trying to be funny. It's like, I'm a stripper Like that's what I do. I'm like kind of seeing Is this sexy? Is this work? Does this work? And I'm at a dinner thing. And I said like it wasn't like nobody was like, heavens, but I was like, o, other people aren't trying material on their kids that might work in a movie, but that's kind of what strippers do going back to strippers. Yeah. Does that make sense? Totally. Yeah. I know. Becauseuse forgive, forgive and then forget, but I feel like actresses get more of a bad rap for what you just said ike they're like really needy, whatever. And you don't it's underreported, I'm with you how aggressively needy male actors are. Male actors are the neediest people in the world. I have a fabous. I don't know why Ive ggendered it. but I have a whole theory about how the like what's wrong with male actors is that they especially of the generation older than me. Like your generation, my dad's generation, which I know are different. But like those two Or like acting isn't a very masculine job. and you had dads who like wanted you to be masculine. And so wanting to go into being an actor, you like have to make it more masculine, which is why to do a bunch of push upps before you go out And why you have to be method and asked you have to be a jerk to everybody. it actually shows how intensely vulnerable you are because you're deeply uncomfortable with the femininity of your job that you wake up in the morning and somebody picks out your outfit princess, they fill up your socks. and then someone applies a light coat of foundation to your nose little I then you want to see your shot because how am I being fram? How am I looking in like And like and it's kind of a feminine job, you know, and whatever that word means. And I think they hit it and so I think that's where it gets so pens. And I had a hairsty on to me, You know my was talking about dating some actor And the Hirirstyles was like, you know, Mayia, I've always said an actress is a little bit more than a woman But an actor is a little bit less than a man. That is brutal. Yeah. I think it might be true. Yeah. So you ended up marrying a musician, which I fully support that you didn't same stream it. Yeah. ye. And your parents split up. I mean, I'm not looking for dish here. It seems like maybe like comedians and comedians don't tend to vibe. It's hard. Yeah, it's hard. It's hard. We don't need to go into their stuff. No I think it is interesting that you found a musician close enough performer Sensitive Sensitive funny kind but not the same damage. It's really hard not to be competitive. Yeah. it's like it's and it and it's wonderful that like Christianans amazing in the arts and like amazing at helping read Script is amazing. And like I love music, obviously. I'm here promoting my record. and like so we share all these things. but when it comes down to it, we have two different paths and two different roads. We're walking professionally, and I think that's very. But you tour together Right now we are ye. It's so cool. Yeah. It's so great. And he's on the record, right? Yeah, he wrote we co wrote basically every song. Okay. I thought I heard almost. any singing there too. Yeah yeah. Yeah. it's really great. Thank you so much. It's really, really good. I listened to the whole thing. this morning And I loved it. Well, thank you. I really I kept turning it up I was already loud. Yeah Th then I would turn up and I found very emotional. I really appreciate it. I really wanted to make I wanted to make a record about ambition. and then I ended up really making a record about love. And that's and I think it's because it's like The record starts with the love of my life, which is about wanting and it ends with like, I am in love with my life, which is about like being grateful for what you have. been in the pub you think what Um there's a journey of figuring out where to place your ambition and where to place your romance and your desire and your love and that falling in like really in love with someone that's my friend really helped me make a lot of the things that were causing me a lot of stress a little bit smaller I mean, that's where I was going, we're kind of back where we started, which is like your relationships and your friendships and It's a leading question, but have you been in show business enough to kind of realize there's nothing behind that door? I don't mean nothing. It's fun to go think behind which door Py and it's fun to be on a hit show. All of that is fun. We're not we're the aliens Living the life, what a trip, What a gift, what a privilege There isn't a lot of substance there. That's my experience. No, I mean, I feel like a lot of what's behind that door is a mortgage R I don't know if anyone, you know, most people who are my age don't get to have a mortgage. Right. And I do And I got and it's behind that door R. But But a lot of most of what's behind that door is, oh my Godd, really? Yeah. Yeah, you mean fake shallow. Yeah. fake shallow. Fake shallow. That's what I mean. So I think I don't know I feel who cares? I was gonna put myself in the same generation as your dad, but I think he's older than I think.'re a you're a millennial I am a G X. You' so okay, then you are on the same generation. Okay, yeah. But he's maybe an older gen X and you're a baby Genx. Yeah, yeah, I think that's what it is I I thought you were an older millennial. That what I would have pegged you at say I just feel like a lot of our whatever, Jenna, who cares A lot of people, regardless of their generation, go to the hardware store for milk. I'm sure you've heard that. So it's like we go to show business to like fix fill the whole of us and when you go, there's a mortgage and like being in a show, like being on this was my talk show, but being on crashing means I can tour the kind of the rest of my life, let's hope Yeah. But like I can find an audience. That's this incredible gift that came back to my craft. So the craft led to this, then it enforced it, reinforced it. That's amazing But I do think I would go Like Christian saying to you, when's it going to be enough? I'm being honest, we're talking about my ambition here. I have to separate myself from it If I went to like the Emmy party and everybody stopped and like cheered when and looked at me, I think I would enjoy it and be like, this is deserved And it's not enough. likeike it's it's never It's never enough. It's a carrot on a treadmill. It's fucking a carrot on a treadmill. And then to bring this back to you Valerie Lila, leaving LA, living in a place like Woodstock where I know people, where I see people at the coffee shop, All this stuff. forty seven just started going like, oh, this is where the substance is. I still love love what I do, but I'm not looking for it to like mommy or whatever, I don't know what I want to do. Yeah to fill the hole. I once did a lot of mushrooms and it became very clear to me that I had like a hole. And like that was what my trip was about. and it like wasn't exactly a bad trip, but it was't a good trip. It was like a medium medium sel medium therapy trip. Yeah. And I was like, o, I have a hole Yeah Like the hole is like leaking stuff out. And that's why I talk so much that's why I want to tell the interviewer that it's a personal thing. That's why I want to do it because it's just leaking from this hole. Maybe this while I'm trying to shove things in the hole like job opportunities and people who think I'm cool and like, oh my God, so and so DM me, that must mean that I've made it. Like you know, these little victories that you shove in the hole while you keep your hand on it, you know, while it's, you know, and it's That's not how you fill the hole. You fill the hole with community With sturdy relationships and like like and whatever you find and like hobbies, like things you love and nurturing yourself is how you work on and you'll never fill the hole, but you can work on living with the hole. Rightight. Be I think we all have like kind of have the have all that's what the King says's like I'm not saying the hole is going to go away. It's not going to go away. Well we can lean into what's very useful about it. like On one hand, talk about that gratitude again. it's like, oh, thank God, I have this drive this ho that that's making me need to do this stuff because I think I know some people There was a musician I know. I I don't really know him, but he didn't seem to have a hole. He was incredibly talented, did some stuff, got some breaks, but like wasn't itchy in any way And that's fine, but it it's hard to quote unquote makeake it if you're not itchy. That's you kind of want to be Marilyn Monroe to a certain extent where you're like kind of crazy for making it. Yeah. if that's what you want. And I think you kind of could have not enough itch. Yeah, you can have not enough. Not enough itch. Which not but not not enough. You're probably an amazing person. Yeah,. Like you not enough for anything, just maybe not enough to like continue to faceplant in the mud at like Emmy parties. Yeahike you know, like just like it there's a you have to have a lot of itch for that. Yeah So it's okay. this is wonderful. I'm just happy to see how balanced and and how many things you figured out. It's like Let's not go to the Netflix Emmi party be fulfilled in a deep way that that's reserved for your family. Yeah or for your friends. Yeah for sunlight.'s ask it. Yeah. It's not this way. And you know what? And then it never It never said it was. It never it was going to. we did. We did. And it actually can be fun if I don't ask it to fix this problem. That's right if you just enjoy it. Yeah. Yeah. but I do think it's for a lot of sensitive souls to be like this is this is that Affirmation Yeah we all like most people in this industry have been trying to be in this industry since they were little kids and' like young. And we all have gotten invited to a party that we didn't really belong at when we were young and felt like nobody And I think there's also a continuing circle of like trying to repair that. likeike, okay, this one time I went to the park. I remember, I mean Yeah, I remember was this is like poor little poor little rich girl boo hoo hoo. But the first time I went to a Hollywood party without my parents, I left and was like, whoa. I'm invisible Oh wow, yeah. L I appreciate the vulnerability there. That's honest. I didn't know. That has to be I like I didn't know what it felt like not to be them. Yeah at a party. Right. And and then I was like, whoa, where do I sit No one's talking to me. Yeah. Like, oh my Godd, no one's talking to me. Wow. like And I was like, I've got to fix this problem immediately Like was like this is insane. I have got. I was like, whoa. So would you say that was you falling into the trap a little bit or no. Yeah, Yeah It was that was like a moment of like, I love acting. And like I was like drama school. I was serious I was like very serious and like in many ways had learned from my parents to have kind of like a bad taste in my mouth about fame and celebrity. And I was like, I don't want this. That seems like the bad part of this career Maybe I'll be a drama teacher, mayaybe I'll do all plays. And probably that was a moment where I was like, nope, not doing all plays. Gott to fix this problem. Right. Like like Nat Wolf needs to know me by name. You know what I mean? Hey, it's Julie Louis Drefus from Wiser than Me, etcetera. opping in with a little reality check Food waste shouldn't exist. There is no reason that our leftovers should end up in a landfill, but that's the final destination for about a third of the food we grow Our ancestors would be confused. 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Availability, amount of discounts and savings, and eligibility vary by state ids love you. Kids love me. Be of my shows is's mostly kids. Strang. Stranger things and anxiety No yeah. Like I've weird like corner to market. And I think this is kind of how it happens of like a lot of girls that were like me when I was young. Like Girls were like A little confused about their sexuality, a little weird Like like to crochet and make stuff, have big feelings and don't know what to do with them and are like, you know, and I think that that's a lot what I always like and it's who I see at my shows. Oh, interesting. Is that part of your story I didn't know a sexual identity thing? Oh, like not a part of my story that I talk about Yeah I mean, it's definitely part of my I don't think people are relating to that. They are. I think it's again, it's like weird how art imitates. they are because mostly because of his character that I played. because I'm I've been particularly vulnerable about my own. I see story. Yeah, your character in stranger Things is a lesbian. Yeah. o. And so I think that it's like it's the stranger thing. It's like it's kind of coincidental, right? It's like it's like the stranger things nerd culture, like Cicon culture and what that is and looks like and then like, but then also the young women who are a part of that and then who are particularly attracted to my character and who like feel very seen by her. And then on top of it I did anxiety. and then I make the music that I make and I am private person, but not that private. I'm like I think I walked the line and Probably a lot of it has to do with growing up in the business and trying to so much of my life is public already. There are things that I like to prot and hold for me because I don't want to be a reality TV star and everyone already knows my parents and my brother and my grandpa. And like so it's like cl like it's it's close so it's a hard line to figure out what you hold for yourself. Yeah. But somehow through the professional decisions that I've made, I've wound up with people who care about me that are a lot like I was when I was a little kid. Oh interesting. And Disney, I think is such a huge thing and then you become like a part of their childhood, a part like this zeitgeist. I mean, am I correct? Yeah, I mean, especially getting to play a character like anxiety came out during the time of like the anxious generation. Yeah Right? Yeah. Like the kids who went through COVID and I thought that movie did a great job and you did a great job I love that movie. I'm so proud to have been in. good job. You know this is gonna sound completely out of nowhere. Why are we mad at booby traps Christianly Oh booby traps. I set booby traps. W you set booby traps for him? Yeah, accidentally, I'm a little bit it's connected to dyslexia, I think. It's like I'm not very good at like when I go to the kitchen and I want to get a mug, for example. A Netflix mug. Yeah, a Netflix mug. I'll go to the kitchen. I'll open my drawer. I will get out a mug And I'll be like, cool, opening the cabinet was required for what I needed. This is narcissist behavior, right? I needed mug. I opened cabinet. Closing cabinet isn't necessary in this story. The cabinet still being opened has no impact on my ability to have tea Right. I'm ono tea. Yeah, I'm done with cabinets. I done cab. You're still thinking about cabinets? Yeah. I'm already drinking tea. I'm already drinking tea. Yes. And so I have sounds like me. Short term Like like I mean, that's I got rigorously tested and they didn't come up with that one, but but you know, I'm Aayman clinic? I don't remember. Okay. I think her name was Dctor Her I'm just gettinging imagine. Her. A lady doctor? I can't operate on this boy. He's my sonon It's my favorite joke as a kid. the only one I could remember. Okay, so I'm similar. I don't have it, but I have symptoms of it or Im just I'm the same way. I like leaving things where they are. L like walk into the kitchen and go ow. No.. She's too small. Okay. But if she was Christian's height, yes. So this is the booby trap. These are the booby traps I mean, look, you're here. he's not but I think I would side with you anyway. You can't see it? So he wakes up earlier than me. And in a kind of bleurary sleepy morning state, will'll like walk into our hallway and trip over my shoes. Okay. and then walk down the stairs and slip on a sweater or I put a single roller skate. Yeah, and walk and also we live New York City so there's no space anywhere. Yeah. So it's like in order to walk from our bed to the kitchen You have to walk past our bureau. And if the drawers to the bureau are open, then there's no room between the bureauide. Yeah. So do why? So do what? A sentence I said to Val recently was Where were the pair of pants that were on the floor in the bathroom or whatever it might be. That kind of sounds like, I mean, in the toilet room, they were like fld on the ground, but that's where they are. And that's where I want They be Yeah No because I'm gonna to wear them tomorrow. Yeah. I'll always be like, Christian, where is my blank? Yeah. Where is my this? Where's this? It's because there's there's a system of madness that they can't possibly that they can't possibly understand and then they move things But it's good. He's a morning person and you're not This is our new theory, Val and I. we go like in every couple, there should be one morning person and one not morning person, especially if you have kids, I think that becomes really helpful. Someone does bedtime someone does wake up. Yeah. Somebody's rocking in the morning, someone's rocking at night. You don't want two hot shots in the morning No and two dead beats at night. No want of the balance. Yeah One of each and in the afternoon, everyverybody's garbage Weirdly, afternoon is my golden time. eleven afternoon? I'm an afternoon delight for pretty much everything. Really? Yeah. like my golden hours between noon and five. Noon and five. Yeah. That's nobody What I feel' everybody. That's the most, That's like that's the day. No, the day is nine to eleven. Whoa. Actually no I'm going This podcast, we started eleven on purpose because that's my goal in time One o'clock, the rest of the day is fucked. Whoa, yeah, I'm really noon to five. Noon to five. After dinner, try me O L over I'm with that, but what are you eating for lunch? Re real question, notot boring question because if you're not crashing makes me think maybe you're eating something good for lunch Not eating lunch. No lunch Prince I am eating a late breakfast. No lunch. No lunch. This is why you're twelve to noon This is why you're twelve to noon. I knew there was a tip. I'm meeting like a breakfast at eleven o'clock This is intermittent And dinner at five. Dinner at five. Breakfast at eleven. Breakfast eleven, two meals. Yeah Some snacks, you know, maybe a smoothie midday. Okay. Maybe like you're done eating at six defefinitively not religiously. like this I amm not a particularly Hbitualized person. Yeah. in a perfect world. But in a perfect world that's't breakfast eleven done at six Done at six Done at six. I've heard D at six is very good. They say after six, everything you eat is ten X. That's what somebody said on I know Yeah, It's hard to know what true. It's hard to know it true but I feel good done at six and I'm so happy. I mean, I want you wear any like trackers or anything because if I don't if I don't have dinner, my sleep is twice as good. It's always like what did you do? And it's like I just didn't eat a slice of cake. I don't wear anything mostly because I'm really like again, this is connected to the cabinets. I'm not a good. I've slowly as an adult learned to compensate for my issues by not acquiring things. Yeah just stopped Oh, yeah, you're gonna cry every time you lose your sunglasses. Don't wear sunglasses. You're dumb. You're like that's not what you for you. Yeahot for you.ot for you. you're done Bill Burr has this line where he goes, If I have fake conversations with you in my mind, you're out of my life And I was like, I think you said on stage you was joking, but I was like, that's a good one If you're just driving around going like And there was somebody There's somebody I know who leaves the most passive aggressive comments and stuff and says passive aggressive comments. And I was like, you're done Yeah, You're just done. You're just done. Why are we doing this? Why? That's sunglasses. Yeah. Can't keep him. canan't keep ' them. I don't wor. And you make me sad? I'm done. You make me sad. You make me sad. I don't it's succession. I don't like how I feel when I'm with you. Yeah, exly. Bye Shiv. Goodbye. Sun glasses are Shiv. Shun glasses are S shiv. Shiv glasses. Goodbye. Bye. Yeah. Sexy redhead. Yeah. I'm not taking ownership over her body I didn't think you were. A we allowed to say sexy red headad I think yes. I think it's like it felt weird coming out I think I think you are. I think you are if it's I think in the right spirit you are spirit of. I think if you're like, I didn't like the show and she was pretty bad, but she's a sexy re. She's a piece of ace. Yeah I'm saying you are a sexy redhead, but I don't like how I feel when I'm with you. It informed what we were riffing Exactly. You're beautiful, but this sucks. And Siv. we're talking about S. You're in the process of remembering a performance moment and a piece of art that meant something to you. Thank you. Which inherently is not reductive to someone's work is expansive and therefore you can talk about them. Thank you like entertainment lawyer. Like he did call this actress sexy, but it was in the context of her powerful character. Yeah. Can I help it? I don't know Yeah. Do you want the next topic? Yeah, I do. I also I was gonna check my list soon too. Oh really? Yeah. Well, if we've gotten to a lot, me goal Oh Smgel. Smigl. Smiggel's one of my guys. What do you mean? Remember we talked about our character, I talked about the baby and the princess. Oh yeah That was an archetype for sure. So like Shmgel, like we had a really had a powerful night because I finally like was stone enough to properly introduce Christian to Schmgel. And I think it made him like understand me better than ever because he was like him Yeah. You just with respect K Smin. Yeah but like I know who you really are. But yeah, but like, but he because he started it came from he was performing as me in a fight. He did an impersonation of me what I'm like in a fight. Christian Oh Chrian dead. Christian dead. What is it? And all of it he was like Oh No, I see why you feel that way. I'm not mad No, no, no, no. um I genuinely Tremors. No, I just really want to figure out how to help Like I can tell that you're upset and I really want to figure out how to help you. And like I know that I'm doing something wrong to make you upset. And like any anxiety you feeling me is just me trying to figure out what it is. Yes. Like And he started doing this for me And I started hearing my internal monologue while he was pausing as me. By the way, his impersonation is better than I just did being myself. but I started hearing in the pauses what I was thinking And I was like Oh my go I'm insane. Like I was just like, oh, like I need to start communicating differently because the pauses are so loud and weird. L I think they're unnoticeable, but they're so weird. And then I was like, do you want to know what I'm thinking in those moments? L And I was like, it's like there's a voice in my head going He's being annoying. This is why you can't trust him. Like he doesn't let support you.. I knew he was gonna do this. You knew eventually he would have a hard time with you working too much and this is the first sign. L W out Yeah. Watch out. This is the sign.' like D't trust him. D't trust him. Like no, you can't tell him that thing about yourself because then he'll judge you.'tbody le Don't tell him. Everybody leaves. And so there's like this Schmgel is the voice in your head going like Yeah, that actress is better than you, but I bet if you lost five pounds, you would be as good as her Like that's the voice that's like, man. Like like yeah, no, you're never gonna you're never gonna succeed in that way as long as you are prioritizing your wellness over your ambition. L man. You know, like there's like it's this horrible little liar that comes in and is and sometimes it protect like it's there, it was there at one time as some kind of protector or motivator And like was useful at some point. I hate to call it useful. No, it was. But at some point it probably was useful At some point it was useful. It's like anxiety. N not saying it. No, it is anxiety. Yeah. But but it's like your character anxiety in movie is useful. Yeah. It's like that's why Riley does well the game. Yeah. why she does well at the game? And I was like, respect. Be it motivates her to practice. Right. And then at a certain point, Riley will have to go, That's the voice that told me how to play hockey. Yeah, how to show up when I was scared of the kids and all that stuff. But now I'm forty seven years old and I don't need that anymore. Yeah. yeah. And in the beautiful way Christian and I introducing each other to our inner voice during a fight. So like when we're triggered, right? When we're traumatized, when we're in our spiral G stuff. Being like, okay, you get to know this guy. mention number two, I can't believe you're twenty seven years old. I just can't believe it because that's some gold that you're saying right. Thank you is recognizing that when especially when you're activated or whatever you want to say that there's a character that you're playing And it makes it so much less personal Yeah. I call mine King Baby. King Baby is one of my parts King baby cannot tolerate that Valerie is favoring someone over it. That's my wife favoring somebody over me, ignoring me. And I'll just fucking flip out. but now, you know, internally But now I can just go like King baby's online. He's here. he doesn't like And she can go, o, okay. Yeah I got it. And that's all that it takes. Yeah. J a little acknowledgement. Just a little acknowledgement. And we and then I take it less personally. Yeah. And I can go we can be in a fight and I can go, I'm filtering Smiggel. Yeah L likeike I'm sorry I'm filtering. likeike I'm only pausing becausecause I'm I'm getting messages that I don't like I'm hearing voices That's right. And I need a minute to pause Yeah and to like quiet down so I can see you because I don't see you right now. Yeah ye. By the way, Stranger Things is a really good metaphor for overwhelming feel. Totally. I know I've always got this.n the cutting edge of Stranger Things commentary, but we say I'm in the upside down. Yeah Because that's sometimes how you feel. You're in the world, but you can't even see it. I can't even see it. Yeah. Yeah. because I'm so in my feelings. I'm so in my feelings. I'm so in the negatative place. I'm so scared. Yeah. I'm so scared. I'm so scared. That's the other thing, sorry, everyone's gonna laugh probably ' I say this too much, but I'm so proud of when the phrase I was embarrassed came into my relational vocabulary because I'll lash out. I'll make a mistake And then the next thing that'll happen is I'm being mean for some reason And then I'm like, wait Oh, I was embarrassed. Yeah I was embarrassed that you saw that I couldn't do that. Yeah. I don't know what it was. Let's say I slipped or I couldn't fix the car or I didn't know where it was. somethingomething I felt like I was supposed it's tied to my identity. Yeah. I couldouldn't do it. And now I have to cut you down because otherwise I have to believe the reports that I'm getting Totally starting a fire to draw attention off of another news story. Absolutely that happens. and embarrassment is so hard to move through. I mean, and fear and weirdness. like I used to do this thing. I finally outgrew it, but I still do it with other people. I outgrew it with Christian and like but I still do it in other places Would it be okay with you? Would you mind I'm really like of course you can come if you want. but I feel like it could be good for me maybe to have dinner alone with my friend Jenaonight is like would that, of course you're invited, but I also think it could if you wanted to do something else. And then it's like, are you fucking Jen? Like what like why are you being so weird about this? of course you can have dinner with your friend like what the fact that you think that you couldn't do that makes me it's toxicic to a toxic level or being accommodating in a way that is s a suspicious because it's like, well, why are you scared of me? Like something And the answ is I'm not scared of you. I'm scared of something else Yeah. Like I'm scared of how hard it was at some other time in my life to delineate any bubble of individuality. Right. And like and'm and I love you so much And I'm worried that if you impinge on my bubble of individuality, I will start to hate you. And so I'm relate to this. I'm trying to show you that like I'm trying to be very careful with the way I introduce it so that you don't do something to make me hate you. Yeah Like and it took me so long to figure out that like, oh, you just you actually Your love. That's no, and you protect your lo by saying That is also ahead of your time, I think. It too me it still took me a really long time. Like I mentioned the sauna that I took a little sauna in our garage. I love sauna. Me too. But the sauna is the baby step of going, I'm going go be alone for an hour You can say I'm gonna to go sona. Yeah, you You know what I mean? But it really is just and but with Valerie I just to be alone for an hour and she should be fine with that. That's like a muscle I'm working on strengthening so much. I Wh those words? I need to be alone for an hour. I need to be A one of the hardest words Yeah that can it's like For me It's because if somebody says that to me or there was a lot of time in my life if somebody said, I just need to be alone for an hour. I would be, I knew it. I'm annoying, M smegele I'm annoy, I'm too much. Like that's one of my core negative beliefs is I'm too much. I knew you would like to be be blad piece by piece. you've been building your case against me. likeike Yeah, that's not what mine's from. Okay Mine is from being like is having people in my life who were like Where are you going Where you're going, what do you mean you're leaving? Or I think in some ways, like maybe even from the from having divorced parents, they became so possessive over their time with me that if like eventually like I'd be like, Hey, dad, like Ekra's birthday' this weekend. Can I go? And he'd be like, but this is our weekend. Right. And I'd be like, okay, when is it going be my weekend Beause last weekend it was her weekend, this weekend it's your weekend. I know you're counting your weekends, but it's all my life. Right. So when does it get to be my weekend? R And I think there was some possessiveness over me as a child. And of the time because it felt limited because a part of it had been taken away. turned me into a person who was scared to ask to be alone. Okay I'm like, we could take this out, but I think I can keep it in the boundaries of comfort and appropriateness. I'm just like, when you have You can take your parents out I felt sort of responsible for how my parents felt a lot And like that had to do with showing up and being there. You know what I mean? Yeah. So like breaking away from that, even though My mom and dad were very supportive of my independence, but if you think you can If you think you're in charge of their emotions, it can be tricky I think in many ways Every kid feels that way Yeah whichich like, I mean you know might be my way of drawing whatever, but I I think But I think I think like it's natural kids are really empathetic. They don't understand that they're kids yet They feel like they have a lot of agency. and they go, okay, if I knock over the bottle off the table, mom cries. Like, you know so if I can make sure not to knock over bottles, mom won't cry. Then you get a little older and you're like Mom's crying, what did I do? Right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like and then you' there with all the bottles totally fineine Yeah ye yeah. Yeah. Yes. And and then you have this kind, you have this sense of agency. And no matter how great your parents are and how much they like I was just going to say, I say to Lila all the time you're not You're not responsible for my feelings. like D don't worry because I'll catch you' try to catch Cheer me up. She often guesses that I'm depressed when I'm not. It's just because I'm not like laughing orghing And she's like, what's wrong? And I'm like, no. notothing. Like notothing is wrong. Yeah. We're just chilling. it's okay. It's okay. because I think what you're saying, kids are looking for patterns and they're looking for control. I sometimes say I wish would make I' be like, Hey, Christian, is there anything wrong? And he'll be like, No Nothing's wrong. I'm fine It's all good I' be like, Then it would help me if you'd smile more Wow. C you tell your face? Could you tell your face? 'ause I'm getting anxious like re reading into your face. And like if actually nothing's wrong, we just like for a minute, give me some compliments and smiles. That's so sweet Ask for what you need. Ask for what you need. I tell talk about it like beinging honest, like I need some eye contact from Val. I need her to touch me her to check you. Well Big Baby would need that. Big Baby needs it. And by the way, the king doesn't shame Big Baby. No King says, we have a big baby. We love this big baby. Yeah. H big baby is also the one that might showhow up when I need to create something. Totally. he still remembers how to play. Totally. He's also very scared. you know He's a lot of He's a lot of. So we're trying to help big baby. Yeah. And you're saying, hey, could you smile? When I When Val and I are looking at each other, we're like hypers scanning each other's face. Are you big? Are you okay, people? We do ask. We talk about how we're feeling a lot. And like, do you ever do check in with your connection? What does that mean You go like, how's our connection Okayike are we like we are you feeling very connected to me right now? or you feeling a little? that's a good line. We don't use that line, but that's in our ballpark. I would like that. It's cool. Yeah I like that one. I can' remember we developed that one to escape from one that had been become What was that? It was like as someone it might have been just like Are you okay? Are we good? Yeah, Are we good? Are you okay? That maybe became a little tacky? That was like, I'm okay. What? Like, you know, like Yes We talk a lot. Are you mad at me? How's our connection came into to replace? Are you mad at me? That's good. That's very good. Yeah. How's our connection? Yes. I will say let's just connect It's a big one. Let's just connect as a big. And let's just drop what we're doing, especially if you're rushing or gettingetting lost in the routine of getting ready for school and going to the thing. It's like, can we just Can we just connect? Stop Yeah. I do it with my daughter too. It's like it's so funny. I go, baby, just coming to the present. and she's like, it's not a present. It's awful Like You are my queen. She said that last night. Not a present. She was getting allset about how a tree was gonna die. She's so sweet That actually I think this goes into permission to say the worst thing Oh yeah. that' I mean, this is all similar. It goes in this totally goes in this cod. permission to say the wor thing is like, okay, my this was created before the invention of Shmgel but is similar which is like, I'm having a bad thought. I'm mad at you about something smmart me, the dragon the King, knows that there's something wrong with it, K knows that I'm not right to be jealous about this or mad at you about that can't sort out the truth. You need to say it. I need to say. I need to say it. I need to say it so that you and I can talk about what's true and what's not true. Can we be safe to just shoot one into the air? Yeah. I'm not shooting you. I'm not shooting you. It's one of the strangest phenomenons about being a human is I can have a thought, which is really a feeling Uh, you know, it's coming it's representing a feeling And I know it's not really helpful. I know it's not rational. I know it's not real, but I won't feel right, this doesn't always happen. I won't feel right until I say it I need to be able to say I felt betrayed or whatever it might have been. But then to your point, once it's on the table, now we can at least look at it and unpack it. Yeah. You know what I mean? We can look at it together and figure out what part's true and what part's not true Yeah. And like and I want to make sure that you know before I say this perission that I'm not saying it o you. I'm not calling you a dick I'm saying I thought you were being a dick in this moment and I got really mad at you because I felt like you shut me down two times in a row and it and like and I was really upset. Yeah. Like And can we talk about it? Right Like what was your experience of that time Have you read nonviolent parenting or No There's a couple things. One a great question that he, the author suggests people ask each other, which I thought you might like is, what's alive for you right now? It'sice to me, you have to be with the right people.. You can't just say that to anybody. but I like saying like what's alive for you right now? Just like what's alive or alive? Alive Yeah What's a lie for you right? What How many lies are you making? How are you playing me? What game? What's your game? What's alive for you right now? No alive because it could be a bad feeling, it could be a good feeling. But anyway, what we're talking about with the worst thing is like You take So nonviolent parent nonviolent They say parenting Nonviolent communication. actually You said parenting. I meant nonviolent communication. You' thinking about parenting. But there is a book called nonviolent parenting, which application of this towards parenting. but it's for everything. You take ownership of your feelings. so let's it sounded like you were kind of going towards something like this. You say, you were just aject just then, right? So you say like I'm feeling sad and a little defensive because my need for connection wasn't being met But you keep it on you. Yes. So it's like you said you seemed like a dick But you put it to a feeling. Like I was feeling lonely and I was feeling scared because my need for Our identity as a couple wasn't being mad. So very interesting. I think this is an amazing tool and works very well. I think for some people who are like over therapized, New Yorkified, you know, from Harry Potterland. Yes That can come so easily as a gear It starts to edge into manipulation Let me show you how good of a communicator I am Let me show you like, You know, like there was this thing that you were doing Yeah. and like and it was but it wasn't that you I, I feel Yeah I felt triggered. I felt this. I like And sometimes where permission to say the worst thing comes in is like while I'm being that big eye like big eye person. Yeah, I'm actually I Doving my rage down, right? Like into my stun. This is your book. say the worst thing is your book. Yeah, and I'm not letting the rage out at all. But you can feel it. Yeah. my pretentious Like, well, it made me feel when you said What's alive for me is a bit Yeah, ye's a break rooms where you just want to smash some plates or you just want to emotionally be safe to let out the truest feeling. and to show someone that that you are ugly too. Yeah. what so offensiveive that you're angry or what so offensive that you're a little Uh likeike a toddler right now And I think if you just do that, you're a jerk But if you bring it up first and say it like even to go to your show, the big fight that you and Kat have at the end, right? I kept Yeahah on the street. I thought their relationship was amazing because it kept wandering the line of like Is this too crazy or are they soulmates? I can't I can't figure it like one moment it's one thing, one moment it's the other thing and I can't telles until that fight. But with that fight If she'd gone home, if she'd had a great night that night, the character, right? And then she'd gone home She wasone was She was jealous it was your ex girlfriend and you weren't giving her enough attention. And she felt like she was drunk and she felt like she could tell that you guys were cheating. Daoice. And then she did deaf voice. Yeah. And but if she had been totally normal the whole night, just a little drunk and sad. and then gone home and go Can I say the worst thing? Yeah. Like I'm really worried that you're fucking your ex girlfriend and it made me mad Yeah. And it made me think that you were stupid and taking advantage of me. and I just felt like raged And if you' consented to hearing the worst thing, and then she'd behavave that way. you'd probably be like, oh my God, I love you. You a sweet person. Your brain, like your bra for too. And I understand. Its like when scientists are trying to work on a virus or something, they'll make a sandbox. They'll make a digital sandbox where they put copy of the code they're working on and they put the bad thing in there so they can just look at it. Yeah. But they know it's the sandbox. It not It's not in the wide pool of the code. It's just in this little place. So that's permission to say the worst thing. Yeah. But but u Be safe enough. I really love what you're saying. Val and I have that kind of relationship too where it's like, I just w to tell you 'cause we don't do I'm not turning my back on nonviolent communication. I'm just saying I love nonviolent. We have other have an amazing tool. Yeah. It's an amazing tool. But there's a time and a place to just be like, I want you to know Like sometimes I haven't had Hulook in a while, but sometimes I would be so angry. I'd just picture Hook breaking a bathroom And I'm like It's kind of dishonest to just have that hulk breaking bathroom thing and be like when you didn't look at me during my birthday song. I felt I f my needs Sure. Song eye contact we're not being bad. Yeah or whatever it is. It could be both. tootally. I like permission to say the worst thing. becausecause it is abusive if you don't get consent. Yeah, yeah yeah. Like That's just called a bad relationship. Yeah, that's just called a bad relationship. But if you get consent to show that part of yourself and then that part gets love. Yeah, yeah. All of a sudden that's actually most of what that part needs to heal And if you never show that part because you're only doing nonviolent communication, then that part never heals. Yeah, ye. Itust gets layers and layers and layers of this is how I should behave, but on top of it. Of course. Okay, one of my things on my list for you was, do you use AI I use AI very sparingly. Is this is Christian Lee Hudson going to come in and yell at me? No.. but this is what I don't understand about AI right now. I don't use AI. Yeah. Beacause I don't trust myself. becausecause I thought I could like have an Instagram and it wouldn't be a big deal and like I lost my mind. Oh really? Yeah. off Off the phone. And A, by the way, sorry lot of thoughts. I love that you brought up AI and we're like, we'll be done in ten minutes. Yeah. Like there's no way. Well, here's my here's my question You go you go. I don't understand. Pople everyone's like if you asked a group of people' like, who thinks AI might be the end of humanity? Like most people go, me. And then if you're like, who's used AI today? Most people will go, me. Yeah. It seems so simple We're barreling towards the end of humanity and the one thing we all have to do is not use this. I don't know The companies will all go bankrupt if we all just didn't use it. I don't know if that's accurate. It's not true. I don't know They made three hundred billion dollars from funding last month. But okay, but it was but just fun that's like a isn't that an investment like what happened with the scooters? Like it's a bubble because people are investing in a ton of money on the idea that it will make money. I actually like what you're saying, and I'm going to check myself after I've wrecked myself. I think if everybody stopped using it, it would be a huge disruption. obviously Very disruptive Um, I'm This is I'm going to keep this really quick I'm starting to look into more voices on the AI thing And one of the more interesting things I've heard lately is that the narrative that if they open AI or anthropic or whoever it is, if they're not like left unregulated and well funded, it'll lead to the end of the world is actually a really useful u narrative the for the health of their company. They want you to be afraid that the world's going to explode. So we'll just keep giving them money and beat China to it. Like, But the idea is AGI, which is what we have right now is large language model, which is kind of like it doesn't know what it's saying. It's not actually thinking. AGI would be the actual intelligent model, but AGI is just a theory at this point. But it's not AGI that I'm worried about. already there the models that we have are replacing people's jobs And I'm worried about mass unemployment And us hur like hurdling blindly toward being like, yeah, you know, it would be fun if I didn't hire a real photo editor. I'm gonna to hire I'm going use this. That's our Yeah. Yeah. And then we've got mass unemployment. what's everybody doing? Right I still Again, the research that I've done and I think you can go in all different ways is that a lot of the companies that are replacing their employees with AI are regretting it. It's not working out as well as they want. I can't speak to everything. that makes me optimistic. I like that this guy, what's his name? somethingomething Harris. I like this guy whose name I can't remember. Sam Harris Yeah Yeah. Is he an a big A anti AI guy? No There's some guy named Something Harris. who who is very alarmist, who I maybe is the kool aid I've been drinking. I You not that. Yeah. I think Kristen Harris All I just found a couple voices. One of them is Barry's Economics that are talking about AI in a way that I hadn't considered which is like Wh benefits from the story that everything this could end I don't understand how the companies benefit from it because they're saying Let us keep going. Don't regulate us. don't put any restraints on what we're doing, give us all the money in the world because the fate of the world is in our hands. When really It would be better spent to not We should be regulating. We should be going I don't feel like most people are afraid that like Chinese AI is going to ruin the world. Most people are afraid that like these five guys who are inventing AI here are going to become the entire government in control of all the money and all of the empire L the Yeah Yeah, which they already are right? Like it's kind of already a puppet government forotch billionaires and now we're done. Now you have to go. Yeah, it's a big topic. and this is my seventy five milligrams of weed. I couldn't I can't regurgitate everything that I learn. I'll say I'm getting a vague sense that it might not be what we thought it was. Cure. I'm not saying I think about that. my feeling is that until we know all the people who are worried about it shouldn't be using it That's a fair point. I haven't heard that. I haven't heard that. I am subscribed, you know what I mean? I am contributing It is interesting thats that hasn't occurred to us yet to just be like, just don't. everyone's like social M meia is the worst deelete it Like like what? No that you just named our timimes. Yeah. It's like, wow, this fucking sucks and I use the thing that funds the thing that. Yeah What if we just didn't use it? I don't know. L whoa. Yeah crazy. A lot of the anti AI videos I watch, the person making it will be like, and I use Chat GPT. I use it every day of my work. So yeah, you're not off Do you to end, not that that's not a good note to end on? No. I could ask you about one more of these or you could No, I'm excited. Oh, this is connected. What? The human revolution This is what I'm trying to start. Okay. I'm trying this is connected to AI. Weirdly I see one.. The Human revolution. L like I just think that Like we should be people. and why like I don't understand why why we're ceding our intelligence