Potato Chips and Ketchup Dipping

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A hot dog is a candich Welcome to our podcast Hot Dog is a Sandwich, The show we break down the world's biggest food debates. I'm your host, Josh Sher. And I'm your host Nicole Ani. And I owe everybody an apology because I collectively called you Smaks for in theory not understanding the very simple puns that are made even more obvious by our costumes, Nicole, who are you wearing? I am wearing Yellow Mustard by Yellow Mustard. Let me just let me. Now you got, did you just reach out to Yellow Mustard to do this dress and they did Because that's inc becausecauseuse people said I' said. I' presenting the resort collection for twenty twenty six. Okay. now I see. seeeeing the ads in vogue. You got in through the agency. Yes. I got in through the agency. That's smart. That's smart. And who gota go through the agency? And Josh, who are you wearing tonight? Well, I'm glad you ask. somewhere six. I'm wearing two.'s little three hundred sixty, please. Okay Come on, get out of water room I'm wearing tomato ketchup by a little u B a little German designer called Heinz. Heinz? I've heard of them. I don't think they were sponsored though. It doesn't look like you have any No, so the logo' on there. It's actually interesting. This is so uncomfortable. I take it off a few. Heinz, I'm keeping mind on. Heines was actually the first to take the word ketchup O sorry, the word tomato out of ketchup Oh, so when marketing their ketchup Which is just a funny little segue. Why do you think that is? Because so for instance, like when we see the word tomato ketchup, we think of it as being almost like an ATM machine or VIN number. right as being reundant. That's true because ketup is tomatoes but ketchup wasn't always tomatoes. So Heinz was the first one that like tomato ketchup, God I think this was in the eighteen seventies became so ubiquitous at the time that they were like uys we don't even have to put tomato on the bottle anymore. They know they know what the deal is. they know who we are This ain't tomato ketchup is just katchchup, baby. And also though You've seen CAT SUP? Of course. yes. I have talked about cats up versus cats. So that was the Americanization of in Britain, they were spelling it KET CHUP. And then in America, they were like, o we're going to be different. so we're going to spell it Cats up. And then Heind is like, We're gonna go back to the Burdder sing and we're gonna drop the tomato. So so Heinz J really modernized ketchup So anyways, this is still my homage to the designer Heinz. Except I got this in the Garmment district in Los Angeles. In Santi? In Santii. Yeah yeah, next to all the pinatas of like the Green Spider Man that You know what I mean Yeah ye. So the reason why we're doing this today is because we're gonna end the agel debate of which is better ketchup or mustard. And know deb. They've been debating in for ages. I know what you're thinking. Why can't both of them exist? They can't. We need to find the better condiment. And actually, I wanted to be ketchup initially, but then halfway through my research I said U, actually, Josh, can I please be mustard? And he's like, cool, dude do whatever you want. And I want to say that at no point did I ever want to reet mustustard? I have real affinity towards mustard. I feel I think I forced your hand whenever we were talking about fine. And I'm fascinated by the history of all this. And if we're being honest, so much of this show over the last six years has been phrased as sort of a debate as a versus It's never really It's never really Do you remember There was a time like five years ago and like we were have to make sure that the creative is verses. O yeah, or like that you and I had distinct positions and it just never stuck because I'm we don't have distinct positions. what we're going say that must like mustard wins. So what? Who cares? I'm here to talk about the history and why I love both, but like in my own life, Yeah, I I don't even know if I can probably consume more mustard than ketchup, but I love ketchup. significantly more than mustard and I think it's historical significance is greater. So interesting. I find myself leaning towards more mustard the older I've gotten I think when I was younger it was all ketchup all the time and I used to actually despise mustard. I wouldn't even touch mustard with a ten foot pole. If it was on my food in my food, I could notice it and I would physically have a Like on aact What kind of mustard? all of ' them? I hated all mustards. Wh. I don't know. And then I looked something up online that was like your taste buds change every seven years. and I don't know if that's like true.. But like I guess I guess youre f this trust around numbers Anytime someone around? Well seven years. Seven prime Yeah, seeven's prime but I'm saying like seven years is a round number. It seems very convenient that they would work in multiples of three hundred sixty five days very evenly. You know what I mean Yeah think I think it's just a estimate of seven years. But but I remember seeing that. I'm like, okay, whatever. And there was this one girl in school that used to just eat mustard packets That's crazy. Like just for We all knew a mustard kid. I knew. Yeahah, I knew kid used to dip their tater tos in mustard at the cafeter and we' like, that's crazy. Yeah ye Yeah. it was like o Oh my on,' traveling around with little mustard packets that's wild. So I just didn't understand it. But then the older I got I started to have an affinity for that like bitter tang and that spiciness that only mustard has. And I really only mustard has it. And I was searching for that flavor and I found it in mustard. It really is a delicious condiment. It's good on just about everything and also it's a great additive in things. L in salad dressings, you can put like a squirt of mustard in there, but I don't think you can put a squirt of ketchup. your kchu in your salad Thousand Island, Catalina, F dressing, Russian dressing all haveike are you putting are you putting that on salads all? what the messed up thing is is are I was not no, they've been collaped his dips These are salad dressings. like Thousand Island dressing is a salad dressing. Yes it is. And I love like crappy, not crappy, but beautiful old school diners. You can go to like Lancers in Burbank and you can get the chef's salad that is taken straight out of a fridge where you don't understand how the iceberg lettuce hasn't frozen with how chilled But you love ice saladalads. I love ice co salads. I don't iceic cold salads. Well, typically love The idea of somebody just grabbing a premade salad out of a fridge, taking off the plastic wrap, and then giving me I will get thousandousand Island dressing as my salad dressing at a Lancer's or a Bob's big boy. Right right. So you can't put ketchup, but I know what you're saying. a vinaret French vinarette. I guess me and you are just different. Like you're reaching for Thousand Island and at this point in my life, I'm looking for balsalic vinagrette. To be clear, I make a lot more like I said earlier, vinaigretes. I probably use more mustard in my house., Tpifically a dijon or like a French mustard Then I do ketchup, but a lot of that is based on I'm mostly cooking for Julia and myself. Right. She hates ketchup. Like passionately passassionately. And you eat Sitzel. When you eat Schnitzel, do you have like chicken Schitzel? Do you make chickenchnizzel? I does assume that you cook?t know I do I make a lot of chicken cutle. I wouldn't call itchitz. Chickenut. I' mostly baking it, yeah. Oh, you are. Okay. Are you putting ketchup or mustard on it why are those the options? Those are options? I mean yeah. I roastard? No, I'm making like a yogurtty Chipotle you Anything or there must have in the yogurt All of the time. no Okay. basasically it's kind of like a mayonnaise sa sauce but I cut that with Greek yogurt. Interesting, o for health and then some spices in there. But no, no, if I'm making a chicken cutlet, I'm mostly putting marinaro on it. Like we're mostly doing like So Monnai are so different. Or I'm putting it in a salad so there's then some sort of like caesar Oh my gosh. Menuo is so different. So whenever I make chicken cutlets or chicken chle at home, I always, always, always serve it with a side of ketchp becausecause it's like a chicken tender. like it's like a big old, When you get chicken fingers, what you dip your chicken fingers in? I never dip in ketchp and I've dippped honey mustard. Honey mustard is my favorite chicken dip, but also ranch and barbecue. Barbecue was like to me chicken and ketchup don't taste right Wow. Chicken and ketchup don' taste. Chicken nugs ketup taste Chicken nugget dontetup don'taste right. Stop. I've never dipped chicken nugget and ketchup. Yes, okay. Frenchries and ketchup, hamburger and ketchup. wonderful. Chicken Bustard on hamburger don'taste right to me. I agree. You want to know why 'cause it reminds me of a backyard barbecue burger and I hate those. Same. They're never good. They're never good. they're pucks The I I If I make a backyard barbecue burger, it's awes It's good, that it's awesome. because but no, but not if you're unar so many bad ones. I don't have an unclearry and his burgers are terrible. Do you have an unclear? I do, yeah. No way. Moms has side. Mom said mom's side in South African. Yeah. No way Really, really really actually very actually a very positive influence my life. Yeah, I really love Lar. But does his burgers suck? Yeah, yeah, not not Iard Another point for mustard, if you will. There's like twenty five different kinds of mustard. There's only one ketchup. I know and there I would say that is actually a benefit to ketup. That is a boon to ketchup's argument. Malcolm Gladwell actually wrote about this. He wrote about that idea of there being so many different types of mustard and only one type of ketchup And we'll go back through the history of ketchup because there were many types of ketchup before this. Before this. And still you can got your curry ketchupch. banana ketchup. No just no chick the z ch.an and bana ketup taste right to me. That'sarino tomato. I do love bana ketchup. but's neither nor there. we're not talking about The reason there's only one type of ketchup is because It's perfect. And when I say perfect, I don't mean it's not perfect. I don't mean from I don't know, like a godlike perspective, but I mean it's perfect in the sense that it balances all five primary flavors It really does, right? You have the bitterness of tomato, tomatoes are a nightshade. They' better you have the acid from the vinegar, you have the sweet from the sugar, you have a heck of amount of salt. and then you have umami from especially the glutamic acid that comes out when you cook tomatoes down. Tomatoes are already ripe glutamic acid. But you cook that down, you concentrate it. It has all of the flavors in them. I think mustard has one very unique flavor and God, I can't remember the chemical composition of it But there is Somebody, a commenter just reached out about it because I was talking about the difference between capsaicin spice and mustard spice.. Two very different spes. They're entirely different chemical reactions. it's like that Dn't Rrie Johnson talk about her when she was here? She did, yeah. Is that nasally like wipe off of your total pallate. Yeah, what do they call like secondary olfactory I say some heat is different. It hits you, I believe in your tongue and like E only it reacts to the tongue like. There like there's like a vaporizing ability that mustard and wasabi has. Yeah. and it's beautiful hororseradish as well.ure. But like that's a very fun, unique thing that mustard brings Ketchup to me, it balances all five primary tastes. I find ketchup to be the great equalizer, I think think It just it just allows for everything to be Ketchup Ketchup you know what I mean? You think ketchup turns everything into ketchup? I thinkere' mustard accents? Yes, I find mustard to be an accent, a little bit a little bit of an interesting addition to your meal instead of word ketchup, iss just this blanket of flavor where it doesn't allow for anything else to shine. If I were to dip a tater toot, into ketchup. Hell is. A little coin of a hot dog. The flavor would really be masked by that tomato. Yeah, yeah, yeah ye. But if I were to dip it in mustard, depends on what kind of mustard, I think the flavor would be accentuated Like if you were to dip it in the potato, if you were to dip a potatoy like little nugget into the mustard, I think it would accent those delicious like fried bits and the salt in the potatoes and that soft center But if I were to dip kchup into it would just mask it with this sugary blanket of like acidic weirdness. I think you might be right about that Yeah You know when the weather finally gets nice and suddenly you just want to be outside all the time That's exactly why I lean on Instacart. It honestly gives me so much of my time back I can put together my whole list, fresh produce, snacks, stuff for grilling, and set my preferences so the quality is exactly what I want without ever having to run to the store I use delivery through Instacart for everything from last minute barbecue plans to just restocking during my busy week The best part is how easy it is, like I can place an order in the morning and keep my day moving, knowing everything is handled It makes those spontaneous summer plans way less stressful because I don't have to choose between being prepared and actually enjoying my time. It's pretty awesome Instacart brings convenience, quality, and ease right to your door. So you can focus on what matters most. Download the Instacart app now and get groceries, just how you like I think you might be right about that. So Ina go back to something you were saying earlier about how you started appreciating mustard more as you gotten older. Y. And when you were a kid, you appreciated ketchup more and didn't like mustard. When I was a kid, I was one of those weird kids that wanted to grow up so fast as a child. the childhood trauma that got me to love black coffee from such a young age, you know, where I was like, I want to be an adult and I want to have an adult patte. Yeah yeah So when I was a kid, I would have said like I love horse radishy mustard and hot sauce and things. Over catchup as I've gotten older, I think it's part of like reclaiming a little bit of my child to try and figure out What are the tastes that I actually enjoy, but that you actually enjoyed or you actually enjoy right now? I think both. I think both. You know, there's been like a what is actually pleasurable to me. I think there is a shift in your actual palette But to me, this comes down to so much more like identity as opposed to what's happening on your tongue, right? I always see the poetry instead of the science in a lot of things So somebody like George Mootz who says like ketchup is a child's condiment and putting it on a hamburger ruins it. sense Well, I think back to like the hamburgers that I really loved as a kid, there's ketchup in an in and out ad You know what I mean? There's ketchup on a whopper. The burger is also mustard fried out in and out. You have to ask for it, but I don't even like it. I don't care for the mustard fri. I don't everyone I'm not not I've never got myurer animal sty. I mean I've ordered it I just I don't N need animal style burg. We'll talk about that later. I like the standard. Literally later today made it later later today. But anyways no, but there's to me like the flavor of a Cifornia Southern California fast food hamburger, the Carl's Jr's of it all, you know, the jack in the box. like that's like hot ketchup and mayonnaise on it. And I've never really loved mustard but that said If I'm o and anyways, when you're a kid, you appreciate sweeter Right Taste more as you get older, you more appreciate better mostostly because your taste buds sort of dull At least the way that I understand it. when you're a kid, your tastes are super sensitive. So instead of changing every seven years, it dulls, you say? Yeah. ye. And whether that's physiological or even just you're not experiencing as many new flavors. cigaret can. But like you know, when you're a kid, like the sugar and salt, you're like, God lights up your palate and then the bitterness of mustard It repels you and that's like your body adulood. Literally yeah. And then as you're an adult, you're like, I just want to feel something man. G me that crazy mustard at Philippipes Come on. Oh my gosh. the mustard. Okay, so the mustard at Philipp's. Ooh, Philippe, the original downtown Los Angeles, best restaurant in the world Okay, so every time's not the best's I mean it's like.'s the best thing in the world. So I have told my husband time and time because you know people always ask me like, oh, what's your favorite restaurant? And everybody wants me to say something like, oh, Eaka like citrine or whatever like that. You know what I mean? Leople expect me to say things like that, but when I say Philiipes People always get so upset by that. I did. My husband, in particular, he's like, stop saying Philipes is your favorite restaurant. And I'm like, but it is. It's the restaurant I've been to more times than any other. Every time I go there, I enjoy standing in line. I enjoy ordering there. I enjoy the plates, I enjoy the food. I enjoy the soopppping wet sandwich So Philiipse invented the French dip sandwich. Yeah, sorry. They're in Los Angeles and they're wonderful. Josh, why can't I say Phelip Philip' is my favorite restaurant. You should be able to say it. I think that is a very good so much. I am so validated right now. You have no idea. David's like, don't tell people thathilipes is different. What you think it makes you low class? I don't know J 'use they have pickled eggs that the counter. I always get at least one pickled egg. I always get a pickled egg.ot a question if I'm getting pickled egg gu. how many pickled egg? I always get I get two I get two French eggs. sh. So I I get one beef French dip with American double dipped, and then I get one lamb with Swiss double dipped And then I get one egg S some sort of beverage, it could be a diet Cke or whatever, and then asside a Ceslaw and that's my order And you don't tell me I shouldn't be proud of that. I' And of course I get like fifteen little containers of mustard and I put it in my mouth and literally go Oh I go Oh and every There' mustard at Piles S of Nandro that Frenched it. It is The most nuclear mustard I've ever had in my life. Brilliant. If you get one thimbleful over your threshold, you are going You're just moaning for ten minutes. It's to get back to it. It's like getting the horse at Laorie's, which is also my favorite restaurant. It's like having It's like beef and m beef and spice. So it's like they give you two horseseradish cream options and they give you the horsseeradish cream that's cut with like butter and like sour cream. and then they give you horseseradish cream. And if you Literally like a forkfulull in your mouth, you're done. You're out of commish. You can't eat anymore. So you have to be able to find the balance with mustard and horseradish and things like that. But that's the fun part about mustard. Something like ketchup, you know what you're getting. It doesn't matter. It m it all tast like ketchup. It doesn't matter if it's hs. It doesn't matter if it's huns. It doesn't matter if it's a little sachet that you find in your drawer next to the soy sauces The chopsticks that you get from delivery sushi, It's always going to be the same ketchup. And maybe that's a good thing about ketchup. But for me, The spectrum with which mustard exists, you can get any kind of yellow mustard for your hot dogs controversial, I know You could do your beautiful whole grain mustards with your vineaigretes. You could do your spicy browns with your turkey sandwiches at your desk. Like there's so much to have. And then, oh my gosh, if someone buys you a fancy mustard, like a tarragon. Oh treat t. tarragon. Oh ye get the Williamsonoma mustard. Oh my Oh my gosh. What if the last Oh my go The red wine mustards. My gosh, just that a little bit of that on like a ch. I find they're like kind of neverous It's always as exciting to receive one and not as exciting to eat one. I disagree.. I wan to go back to what you werere saying about Philippes and Laowry's with the mustard and the horseradish. Are they old people food? they there old people foods but I think the way that it's like sophisticated, but you said something earlier that actually kind of got me to rethink certain things about when you dip something in ketup everything turns into ketchup. When you dip something in mustard, it actually accentuates it And I was thinking about would I ever take a like very good quality burger, something where I've been using my meat grinder a lot at home. Moosecraftra Mooseraft is great. That's very specific It's a smokedurger Like even if I'm like grinding my own chuck and making my own little blend and like making a special burger at home Would I put a katchup or catch a base condiment on it don't think so. I'm more likely to put a mustard on it in the way that You go to Lowerry's, I wouldn't dip their prime raaven cetchup Oh no I would dip it in a horses radish or mustard. becausecause that they're actually using a good quality beef that you want to taste the character of. And I think mustard can accentuate that character. Right, right, right. Even Philippes. So I know Philiipes invented the French dip Because it tastes like they did. There's another place that I think is kind of been on the brink of extinction coals that claims to have invented the French dip Every five years clothing. Yeah I know. years clos. they turn into a new hipster bar and this is a spepeasy or whatever. And then everybody it wass like, you taste those side by side and you're like I know who invented this. Yeah, right? One of them tastes like processed trash. The other, I see an old lady in a hair net Taking a roast out of a pan and slicing But like their beef in the aromatics are delicious. And I get a plain beef dip wet And then no cheese. And then my cheheck this out. Second sandwich, I go wild cb. I'll go lamb and blue cheese. I'll get their ham dip with cheddar. I'll go crazy on wild cb. I always just get my standard is just beef bread and then the juice. Right, right, right, right. And then that with the mustard, I would never put ketchup on that. I would never in a million years Be becausecause mustard is something that accentuates and elevates whereas you' write ketchup flatten But in a way, that's great. I don't wantan to taste the quality of jack in the boxes ground. mayaybe if you did, you know, Mbe if you did, it would allow you to make other choices Sure, R? Sure. But I think there's something beautiful about that sameness of ketchup, that it is a known quantity. R and And that's the reason it's so nostalgic, especially something like Heinz who Heinz, I actually didn't realize was such a major player in modernizing and defining what ketchup is and tastes like. Tell people what ketchup was. So what ketchup was I really grew to appreciate what ketchup was when I saw the term ketchup somball You don't catch up somenball. N heard of it. I have a bottle in my fridge. It's K A C AP. Sumball and it is a sweet chili sweet soy sauce from Malaysia. And I was like is prounced ketchup and then like got a ketchup I then I looked it up and didn't real like ketchup. This ketchup is just a Southeast Asian native word. It likely comes from Hokian, which is like a Fujianese dialect of Chinese. But like that's just it's that old. It is literally thousands of years old. and was basically their term for fish sauce exist for thousands years. There's also kind of alternate history because in Rome they're making Garum, basically very identical just fermented anchovies. But anyways, Dutch East India Company Colonialism doing a very abbreviated history here. They go find ketchup. They start Europeans start writing about it in like the fifteen sixteen hundreds It eventually gets to England And they develop a taste for ketchup, but then they start adding English products to it like mushrooms and walnuts. I remember Je Austah. Jane Austen was a huge f of walnut ketchup. Yeah, mushroom ketchup ends up coming to the colonies in America. Tomatoes were only in North America, I believe, mayaybe South America as well. But tomatoes are native to North America so Europe didn't get them until sixteen hundreds weren't really until the seventeen hundreds. But then in America, they started making tomato ketchup in the eighteen hundreds. It also became a weird health fad. So then really? Yeah, I mean, still to this day, you get Lycopine supplements. Oh, sure. That's just tomatoes. That's just the red and tomatoes. So they were making tomato pills in the eighteen thirties. They're making ketup pills. I thought the ketchup pills for diarrhea I know the ketchup pills for giving people diarrhea. was for diarrhea I thought it was for like GI discomfort. Oh, it was. it was, yeah, yeah. But it gave people diarrhea. It gave people. Yeah. Well there was there's a hilarious like era in America. It's like during the snake oil era that people are selling like fraudulent ketchup pills. But anyways like it becomes a very American continent And then in eighteen seventies, I believe, is when Heinz starts manufacturing ketchup. But Heinz changed the game so much in terms of food safety standards in America Everything changed with the formation of the FDA in the nineteen hundreds, up in Sinclair's, the jungle really blew the whistle and everything. But even before then, like there were people dying of malpractice in food manufacturing, which en mas a relatively new industry in that sense. So people were dying and then there were companies that were like, we should figure out how to get people to trust us more. Heinz was one of the biggest. They opened up their pickle factory to the public and' likeool' see how clean we are. That's awesome. And then they were some of the first two pioneered natural preservatives because back then like Imagine in eighteen seventy where like they didn't even know How. How magnets work? Like they just didn't know anything. They didn't know what vitamin was. You know what I mean? In eighteen seventy. It was literally. C clown posotse. It wast I.ood said not juicy J. Violent J is his name. was viol juic.. But anyway, so like they pioneered the use of sugar and vinegar and salt as a natural preservative because people were adding so much sodium benzoate to things that was just poisoning people And so anyways, like they really for so many different reasons pioneered how Ketchup is supposed to like taste and how shelf stable it can be for a product, tomatoes that has only grown three months out of the year, especially back then. you know. And so to me like inc the journey of ketchup, it shows our sort of ancient roots and how everybody wants and it maintains the same, you know, it's got umami, it's gotalt, got sugar, it's got acid, It's got all the things that it' always had It's morphed over time. and to me, it's such a beautiful story of the way that idea is transfused throughout the globe. Well, sure you can say the same thing about mustustard. I mean I you really can really Mustard has been around since three thousand BCE. They mix it with grape must and they called it mustustom arden, which means burning, was was it burning burning m and then it became popular in medieval Egypt. Some people say that phharaohs were buried with mustard seeds as well. So it has a vast and complicated and beautiful history. So notice that they just come together at Costco? Oh, you mean like next to each other? They look like a hot dog. L these two ancient condiments from that Ancient. Ancient that you could just go to Costco and while you're like waiting for your TV to get packed up, you go might as well get a hot dog and you just squirt both of them on your meat tube. Why do you think beautiful? Why do you think people hate, especially Chicago and sorry, people from Chicago. I love you guys so much, I love Chicago If I could move anywhere, it would be Miami and then Chicago. Why are people so anti ketchup on hot dogs? I think it's because people associate ketatchchup with child childildishness. like un adult, you know Un adult. I think there's a level of manliness to the idea of being an adult who eats spicy mustard. And I think that's something that I spicy. It's spicice, but not spicy. You're right, you're right, you're right. But also I do believe that women are more predisposed to like these spice for mustard and horseradish than men are, which is interesting. That's true. Yeah, yeah. Whereas men Because we have boobies Could be because of the boobies. I don't know what the boobies are doing What are they doing The other day, I just I didn't know what boobs were. I had to gooole. I'm serious. They're literally sacks of fat to fe. But it's different kinds of fat, though. It's like there's a different Yes. Yes.'s different It's like a camel's hump It's made of different kinds I mean it's just sacks of fat that have glands to feed your child. That's what b What is a gland though? I don't know gland would describe what a gland is? gland It' part of the endocrine system? Sure, but like what it it's made of me. I made a made of fat I don't know. I think it's made out of tissue I think it's made out of tissue. Okay, so like sweetbreads Those's a gland, right? Those are I believe arere those thyroid glands? I think it's thymus. Thymus. thymus. No thymus. Some people refer to the pancreas as swleetbreads too, but I think it's the thymus gland. I think they do that in Brazil It's it's like a weird It's a regional thing.' yeah, But but like its it's like sweet Sweet pads. There's no I shouldn't admit that I had to Google what boobs are. You should do that. didn't It wasn't images. It wasn't images. It was all result. It was a worklock. What is boobs? What is boobs? science educational boobs.. I went to boobs. Eu because I thought it would be educational it was. I don't think the boobs have anything to do with women preferring heavy. I see it just so happens. I think it's coincidence. I their com morbidities to each other Honestly, I'll say this, I'm reaching for ketchup and mustard a lot of the time If you know what I'm making tell. Wow, women really can have aation for both. You can work and be a mom. You upp That's first. You could do it all. What if you were to like really give up either for the rest of your life, how would it affect you personally? Well me. And I would say Ked that counts catchchup as an ingredient, which I think would preclude most maybe most barbecue sauces I of barbecue sauces are using ketchup. think about me I don't reach for barbecue sauce. Iveat barc sauce at least once twice a week. I love making barbecue chicken with never make bc roasted sweet potato fries. Oh my gosh, never, Oh my Godd. I think I have maybe made a barbecue chicken or barbecue adjacent food in my house married to my husband, maybe twice Maybe twice. I'm not reaching I feel like David's a guy lik barbecue. I feel like he would have appreciate it if you made more. You can take him for barbecue chicken kup I really do it all. I put wood chips in a foil bag, put themem on the grill, a little smoke on just have him come over after he's studying. Just have him come over But no, I never make barbecue at home. I do have ketchup a lot like as an option. I only ketchup with my eggs So I do find myself reaching for ketchup. I do find myself using mustard though a lot. Again, salad dressing sometimes That's main thing for me but I could go I could kill it for my salad dress. I use it as a marinade for my food sometimes. And there I use it I do I'm laughing because I'm trying to think of all the things that I use it for But I do use it like again, on the side of like a little girl dinner, like with little cheese and little me, I just do a little squirt of mustard It's great I'm not you tonight I'm thinking. I'm thinking very I blink a lot when I think very deeply because I think I'm accessing my mind my mind movies. I'm trying to think what I use mustushroard for.ike what am I be using? I drink a lot of coffee in Mcroy I might use mustard tonight. Yeah it was a coffee was bad. It was one of the new flavors. I might use it tonight. Check this out. What's up? You ever makeiv what's it called Ondiv graone Do you mean? Oh Gat is. Oh Brat Nives I inexplicably have end dives. Check this out. They. D don't do that. D't it. don't cook the endndives. What are you? I'm cooking end dives Don't cook the endes. I'mrapping the endndives and ham. Don't cook Cck this out.. I'm wrapping the end dives and ham.' I'm searing them. I think I'm going to cut the end knives in half long ways. Wrap it in sle piece of check this out Persciuto from Japan. Julie and I have already eaten the prosciutto from Japan plane. So Julie my wife went to Japan and she met a bunch of really cool farmers and food producers. And some guy just like I think he's just a hobbyist and makes prosciutto. How cool of Japanese pigs and just kind of like drinkakes them to him. And So so we already ate one like normal style, just you know, eatating prociutto with friend whatever. And so now we have kind of like the dregs of another pack, and I'm like, let's mess around with itrap cut and dives in that sear it off. and then I'm gonna to make like a Dijon spiced brehamel And then pour that over and then gratane it I'll say this much Sometimes on packaging of mustardom and ketchup is sess fancy But you know what That's not what it's all about Js just fo the way it taste, man Was that a prepared statement? Was that a? What the hell are we talking about Please don't cook your end dives I don't think there's a winner, clear winner here. I think we can both coexist and find peace within one another and each other Wow, Oh my gosh, she's running So good, so good. New markdowns up to seventy percent off are at Nordstrom rack stores now. Stock up and stve big on shoes, tops, dresses, accessories, and more must haveves for summer. Join the Nordy Club to unlock exclusive discounts, shop new arrivals first, and more. Plus, buy online and pick up at your favorite rack store for free Great brands, great prices. That's why you rack. Expedia and visit Scotland. invite you to come Eedience the beauty that awaits in Scotland. The sweep of whaled co lanes. Quiet locks and untamed landscapes Fresh cuisine that feels rooted in the land Come experience the kind of stillness that stays with you long after you leave Plan your Scottish escape today at expedia. com slash visit Scotland. This Father's Day, do more with dad and spend less with low prices guaranteed at the Home Depot. Get him fired up with a new grill and accessories, like the next grill five burner for just two hundred ninety nine dollars so you can spend more time together while he becomes the grill master he was always meant to be, or build memories with savings on top brand power tools so you can tackle projects side by side Gift more and do more together this Father's Day with help from the Home Depot Eclusive supplly at homekeper. com plash pressatch for details All right, Nicole, we've heard you and I have to say we mostly talked about French chip sandwiches. How can you not? It ssound know you what other wh we're r it out there Un D for the second week how. opinions sound like casserole. Oh All right, headphones. That's how we hear the opinions We're already wearing so many at Coutreont. It's just one sheet. It's a dress Josh, that's perfect. It's Marlin. I hope you do well, bud. All right, I hope that this is not too hot of a take.. No one gets to tell me what I can and cannot put ketchup on. Yeah. There is that sep spot up in like upstate New York where they don't even let it's burger joint. they don't even let you bring in ketchup. Screw that. That's crazy. And I'm sorry, I can put ketchup on a friaking Chicago dog if I want. dread on me. Dad fake I would ent you it's not too hot Let you guys peace, see aroundound. M me too man. This is such a deceptively political debate, right? This is like when people are like, I have American, I have free speech. and it's like free speech doesn't protect you from consequ it protects you from like consequences from the government and but not from people telling you you're asshole, right? I agree that you should be allowed to put ketchup on whatever you want. You get takeout from. We have our own you talked about thaturer place up St New York. you's talking about Louy's Lunch in Connicut or whatever. we have that here. We have that here Father's offp ansi cetatchup plays. they don't breake up if I get And if I go into this restaurant I'm not bringing my own ketchup, they would have a right to say, Hey, don't bring outside food into a restaurant, you jackass. And they would have a right to ask me to leave one hundred percent, you can't just do that. it could even be a cross contamination issue. You know what I mean But I get that to go. I'm eat in the parking lot, I can put getchu on it I think that's that's you're right, but it is also their right And I think It's kind of cool when restaurants have standards like that. Yeah. but also there's no problem with like exhibiting restraint. How about you try it without ketchup first? Yeah and see how you like it and then smother it in your sugary, vinegary tomatoy mess. For instance, I love ketchup on a hot dog. I also love ketchup on a hot dog. I don't know if I would love ketup on a Chicago dog. One, a Chicago dog is already sort of walking line between something I like through the garden. through the garden There's already just so much vinegar and sweet from the relish There's already so much cold on it. frank. I love to load on my hot dogs. I've always been a hot dog loader. I I don't leave I love loading hot dogs U But not my burgers. Okay, interestnteresting. I could put like twelve things on a hot dog and have a good time. I'm like the opposite. Yeah. I think something about a hot dog, I love a clean tube shaped food Totally different. looad it on on top of one another. like You can't get all the bites, all the components of a hot dog in one bite. I kind of dislike it Oh my gosh, no, no, no. it's always an adventure with a hot dog You got to kinda eat around it. I love to be able to shove whole thing in my mouth See, I'm like not with a burger. I'm a burger like purist. Yeah, fun. I don't love to load it up with like sauces and like like vegetables. L if I had meat, cheese, bun and like maybe a pickle, I'm good I think I like what Marlon's saying though about not extrapolating necessarily people's wants into judgments about their character That's you know, that's you know Let them put cetchup, let them put c Let them eat ketchup. That's what I say. Let them eat ketchup. Apparently that was taken out of context when Marie Antoinette said that Yeah I know there's a weird funky history around that she never actually. Did you ever watch the Marie Antoinette movie that Sophia Coppola made? Yeah, I love that movie. my comfort movie for like huge crush of downre. Really? She's not my. Who is your type I don't know. Okay. She's not Not her, w, okay. Monica Blucci iss the most beautul wom on planetth. Got you. my opin. Gotch And I love the fact that she's like anyways Okay my hood hot take is that ketchup doesn't belong in anything except a poor man's recipe. Any py recipe This man has the most gorgeous voice I' ever heard I'm sorry. I' making up for you your laugh. Your voice is beautiful. You should go into voiceovers. okay, continued Peter has catch your opinion. Immediately double turn off Throw it away. Get it out of here. Yes, Mararty. Iir. leit. I love your voice. Can you sing You'll never find another love like mine? byy Lou Rawls, greatreat song I want to hear him sing it I don't know if I agree with this stake. We can all agree on what a lovely mellifluous deep voice that was. It was beautiful. I don't know if I agree. that ketchup doesn't belong in anything except for a poor manan's recipe You know what I mean? I understand the fact that if you are about a sloppy Joe Like a sloppy Joe. That's a sloppy Joe is a great example of where ketchup does work in the context of like a scrap poverty food. I love sloppy Joes. Sloppy Joe, you can take the crappiest possible ground meat scraps and you're mixing it with like onions and whatever have peppers if you have peppers. Whatever else you can throw in there. Id put some cabbage in a sloppy joe. job do. I love cheheck this out. I love beefing up the volume of my food with various forms of cabbage. I would never put cabbage in sloppy Joe because I love myself. I put kosa on top of it and make a little sanda whichich. Well, but you know you take ketchup. I make a little sand of whichich. Cabbage, you know, I take cabbage and I'll saute it. I'll. Barbecue sauce in your sloppy Jo's. Barbecue sauce is just ketchup. It's not justp part of. it's part of problem of what we're talking about.arbecue sauce is flavored ketchp a component of 's to about bars mustard and barcue sauce. It'sough to talk about barbecue sauce as a monolith. because you got somebody for There's notu. I agree I agree. But if we were talking about like Casey Masterpiece or like a stubbs or a sweet baby Casey Masterpiece house. Act actuallyually never we. despite the fact that we ag So you always reference Casey Masterpiece. T me, Casey Masterpiece was the storend like the name brand barbec. So interesting no. We were when it was on sale, we were a bullseye And I'll tell you what, Bullseye was always on sale. And to me, it had the most liquid smoke in it. too much. It was so good. Almost too much. ye. But you know what I mean? Like that style of American barbeue sauce, it's ketchup plus more vinegar, sugar, and spice. But there's already vinegar sugar and spice in ketchup. It's kind of just a little bit of like a doctored ketup. You ever make homemade ketchup Disgusting. You ever make homemade mustard Kind of sucks. sucks They do good job in the factorory. They do good job in theon. Good job factories. G good job. Yeah, Lobby Joe is a great example of how ketchup really can. J that idea of like so much vinegar and sugar. world h tomato can cover world of hurts I do I do think that there's a little bit merit in what you're saying though. D it ketchup in it in Shepher's p I wouldn't do that, you would, though. I'd put mustard in it I think I put both last time I made it But that was a weird thing where I instinctively put what's actually crazy is I didn't put ketchup in it. I didn't tell a story of why Julia hates ketchup.. She was doing she was a theater kid, right? Ging up and they did a performance of Is there a is there a Logan Re Theatater kid No you're a jh. Camer Jh. you're the biggest ceder kid here There wass like there's a thing is there a play that's commonly done by children where there's a school shooting? I don't know. That's not. Google that? Is it is it like or bang bang your dad or something? ''s not kids ks, bang bang., what's I don't know, but anywways, she had to play Dad and to fein blood on the children that use ketchup. So she was like for hours just sort of covered in ketchup, like smelling it. And I actually was listening to. I think I was listening to stuff You should K know. You need to call Julia live on the podcast? Why not? You got anything else going on? See if she'll pick up on you I mean, why not get it from the source, right? We're going to keep going Okay, so the reason why she hates ketchup is because she was mother mered in it as a child. Okay, so Thatake. watermelon Buster Inanely good. and I I feel like nobody talks about it. You remember the Em mustard really right bottom line. It's amazing and I get called crazy for eient What is? So this was you don't deserve to be called that. This was a big trend on TikTok. people? People were eating watermelon and mustard. What was the big trend? You know what I mean? It was a trend. 'ause we just saw a couple videos from calledge of Tina and what were we doing? It would get like millions and millions and millions of views I think that constitutes a trend. It's like Daldona coffee was a trend. Coffee is a trend. So we did our own take on that. where Josh ate honeydew and mayonnaise. and to this day, the thought of it makes me wretch. It was such fun times. We obviously had so much fun back then. We had a lot of fun. It was during the Panini And you did Honeydew? Oh yeah. And what we did was there was one There's so many established M visual languages now on TikTok, right? Come with me being man I't know L you know what that cadence is, right? It's the restaurant review. Y. That's the cadence of restaurant review. And so back then people were sort of discovering this sort of this visual language of what videos were. and this person made this video eating watermelon and mustard where they had these just insane gigantic reactions where they would bite and they would go And like their eyes would roll back into the back of their head and you know all this. Very odd. And so I did a faithful shot for shot of the original watermelon mustard video, but with honeydew and mayonnaise Um Go watchh it that. Is it still you think it's still on TikTok Surely. Do you remember, You get a hot dog there, Betty? Do you remember that video where I was on all fours? Sirtless on all fours, the hot dog in my mouth I didn't pitch it. I did not pitch it.ame The things we all did U tryrying to figure out what our short form strategy was. and now it's just cut down whatever we were doing. Have you tried watermelon mustard before? Yeah, I haveven I haven't. It's fine.'s f It's kind of aggressive. I think just watermelon and salt is probably the best. I like watermelon and salt. Even like tahin, I think is I think watermelon's kind of a deceptively very delicate flavor. I love watermelon and tast. I love tahen on Pineapple I think might beam carry it. That might be my dream dessert is watermelon and Tahen or like some sort of like palete Paleetta version of that. Yeah. I love like to me like the mango and the pineapple carry the Tahen better than watermelon. That's okay. You can be wrong, I don't mine. Yeah. but I look like like a mango nata A mango on the other Do you mean a Mangoia Mo Niada. I've never heard of called meeo Niada, even the What are you calling it Manganada. Mangganada. gave me the manangganada. the j Madas. No man Ma. No manangonada.a What do I say You're just but you like mango is like mango Mengo Niada is what I say. I don't know. I haven't said it in so long It's just mango and Chamoi Is it just mangonada? Is it not? I think it's mangonadas. Maybe it's manangonada. I don't know. Anyways, Anything else, slogan? One more? You know what I'm okay. Okay. But come on, one more. No Josh we are. al. Iang.. I don't wan to do. people't want to talk anymore. Anyway, we' no, no, no, no, no, That's called baiting, right? Is that what I just did? Bit Like, No, no, no, you're like, okay, okay, okay I think it's great to eat potato chips with ketchup.. And if you think that's weird, then I would ask you to define exactly what L. of French fry. Oh yes is too thin. too di in ketchup, like where is the cutoff? you think that you shouldn't d dip in ketchup. Then clearly there is some metric by which you were saying, well at that point the potato is too thin to be dipped in ketchup. Why did none of these opinions talk about mustard?s ketchup all the time onlyn one mustard? I understand. literally the last opinion was about mustard. But that was the only one about mustard I really like the cut of this person's jib. I like their jib and I like the way it's cut. No and I'll tell you exactly why. they have they have a very dialectical view of the condiment to food relationships Because what they've done is they've established the fact that fried potatoes and ketchup are a great combination that people in the world over seem to love. potato chips, which are just fried potatoes, dipping dipping in ketchup is often seen as anathema pololite society. Stop using big annoying words. Irishfes Anyways, so what they've said is for people that would say Potato chips and ketchup is inaropriate. They want to know the exact width of potato. that deems them then appropriate to dip into ketchup, but I will offer you rebuttal, I think we could find that because you've engageed in what I believe is called reducto ad absurdum. check this out where the idea is to try and like bring someone's point to the level of absurdity to illustrate why it's false. I would argue that the American cut of French fry is thicker than say a shoestring that you would find often in France, it's say, like a bistro or something where Catch upp is not the dominant sauce to dip it in. so I would argue that effectively, the thicker the fry up to a point does increase its relational benefit to cetchup Where's the thinner the fry? I think sort of decreases it There go, the closer you get to potato chip hood. the less likely it is to be dipp in catch up, which means that doesn't mean that it's necessarily Wrong to do it but there is less historical precedent for athin potato. And I would argue that you get up to a certain thickness too, It is sort of normal distribution. along a bell curve of potato thickness in relation to ketchup dippability. What he said on the head notote I I've I dipp toasting ketchup man. That's the thing that I do. I dip toasting ketchup. dip toasting ketchp It's jam. It's a lovely jam. I also love, love, love potato chips and ketchup. I I was never an onion dip home That's something that was never that never registered in my home, but I bought it recently. Oh my god, onion tip. It's a little ruffles. It's a little too salty for me. Oh It's like I grew up on it, it's a little too chemical for me. I made my own onion dip re. Oh, well that's differentud that's different. Oh my god. fiveive different caramelized alliums. Oh my God.eban. I've done that before. I've done food. But I use creb fresh was really good. I split Lebnna and sour cream, I think, in a little bit of mayonnaise in there. Dude, Not so smet. Oh, I did like a little like beef stock too Oh, I like put some like beef bouillon in the caramelized Italliums to sort of like get the French onions. Not. And that kind of gave you that chemical Right, right, right. Sort of tastes. Sounds delicious. on that note. Thank you so much for stop about hot dogs sandwich. I got new episodes out every Wednesday on its own YouTube channel. that's called a hot dooggs a sandwich Alsoever get your bad guess. Yeah, don't forget to subscribe. If you want to be featured on pains like Castros, hit us up at a eight three dog pod one And if you like watching us feel like watching us then go ahead and you can find our addresses if you're really savvy. You watch through our keyholes. No, no, no. You, slip them inside out Um no, we have a YouTube holes inside. I think someone did that to spy on Yeah, a celebrity a while ago. Anyways, kind of what room they're saying in Kehole U yeah, super gross. YouTube what I was saying is subscribe to our Youube channel with My kitch subscribe to our YouTube channel hot doog is a Sandwich I already said that and then now this one is where I say if youd like to see us do other things We also have YouTubeannel Well people aren stistically think people aren't gonna subscribeed to None of this works. None of this works. No this has been proven. I'm serious. this has been proven the whole card.. Notice YouTubers stop saying, like, comment, subscribe. No one says that anymore because it doesn't matter. It's just YouTube either feeds you the slop or doesn't