Meta Lessons on Vitality and Collaboration

Hey, listeners We want your questions Are you early in your career and trying to find meaning in the job hunt Are you looking back on years in one industry and wondering if you found your life's work yet? or if you might have missed it When thinking about your purpose and how it ties to your career, whatever's on your mind, we want to hear from you. Send us your questions by emailing fixable at Ted. com and we'll deliver you answers in a special series coming soon This episode is sponsored by Toyota One of the most interesting parts of being human is that we're all a little different prefnces, different priorities, different ways of seeing the world. And ideally, the things we use should reflect that Toyota's new all electric lineup is built as a family, but not a uniform one. Each vehicle has its own personality, from the sleek expressive design of the CHR to the more rugged feel of the Beszy woodland It's not about standing out for the sake of it. It's about finding something that actually feels like you Learn more at Toyota. com the new all electric family Toyota Let's go places With no fees or minimums on checking accounts, it's no wonder the Capital One bank guy is so passionate about banking with Capital One. If he were here, he wouldn't just tell you about no fees or minimums He'd also talk about how most Capital One cafes are open seven days a week to assist with your banking needs. Even on weekends, it's pretty much all he talks about. in a good way What's in your wallet Terms apply, see capital onene d. com slash bank, Capital onene NA member FDIC Francis, we are coming to the end of our purpose at W series I have surprise myself by how much I have enjoyed this to some really interesting folks about what gets them out of bed in the morning and keeps them going in the face of setbacks and uncertainty. It has been It' super energizing to include all of these voices in a conversation I feel like you and I have been having with each other like our whole lives When people get more in touch with their purpose I don't think it's like an incremental improvement in their lives. I think it is a dramatic improvement. So I have been unexpectedly surprised at how helpful this series has been Yeah. onene of the things I realized coming into this episode is that I haven't officially asked you how purpose has operated in your life, at least not in front of our fixable audience. So let me ask for the record How are you thinking about purpose these days particularly when there's so much chaos and disruption and uncertainty in the world. It's not a my question. Well, my operations roots will show, I think, in my answer to this, which is I think about purpose in terms of the capacity of people, of other people, and how do I get them in touch with not only their full capacity, but how do we help them dramatically increase their capacity. And when I'm doing that, I don't even notice time, I don't notice effort, I don't notice anything. And so it's being in touch with the enhancing the capacity of others and then trying to let them Live fully into it I first saw that was beautiful and resonates in my experience of you Does it feel more urgent for you given the state of the world or where you are in your own life No, you know, we've said that we need more leaders and leaders fortunately are not just at the top of the hierarchy. They're everywhere. We need more leaders unleashing possible in others. Yeah Well one of the reasons I'm excited to talk to our guest today is that he in kind of a similar way is making the case that purpose is the answer to what so many people are feeling. in the year of our Lord twenty twenty six This is fixable, a show where we take the problems at work that feel unfixable and prove that they're not. I'm Anne Morris, and I'm Francis Fry Listeners, before we get to our interview today, I want to invite you to stick around after our conversation to hear our thoughts on our purpose at Wor series Francis and I have really loved making the last five episodes and wanted to take a minute to reflect on what we've learned from all of our fantastic guests So hang in there with us And first Guest today is Arun Gupta Arun is a longtime investor and the CEO of the Noble Reach Foundation He spent his career helping people find ways to serve something bigger than themselves. He lectures at Georgetown and Stanford, where he teaches the popular course, Valley Meets Mission. He's also the co author of the new book, The Mission Generation. I am so excited for people to learn about this book. Yes, and join the movement that is the Mission Generation. Let's bring him in. Aarun Boopo, welcome to Fixable. And thank you for having me We're delighted you're here. We have been talking to a whole bunch of high profile people for a series about purpose at work Arun, we wanted to end with you because we think you're saying something really big and important about purpose, and I'm going to have the audacity to try to summarize it. And then you tell me how close we are to getting it right So what I think I hear you saying is that is the answer to all of our fears and anxiety, which are at an all time high as a species right now. Is is that in fact what you're saying? We'll start with the punch line and they'll work how do I get there? But the short answer is yes is what we're saying. Very exciting And the how we get there though is that what you're alluding to, know in the world that we're living in where we've got so much change going on right now, right? And especially for this younger generation as they look at They're post COVID, you see geopolitical conflict, you see environmental conflict, you see great power competition emerging. You see AI, transforming jobs That's a lot of swirl. That's a lot of history in a short period of time And that swirl, it's not clear that that's going change going forward. We're going to be living in a world that's kind of constantly and accelerating change going on The systems that we've built, however, Anne and Francis to date have been built for a more stable world. And so those what we contend is that those old scripts were're great for looking back, but they're not what we need looking forward And especially when we start talking about career pathways pathaways that our careers were built on were really around prestige markers, institutions that we want to be part of or job titles we want to have Those are getting disrupted real time. And I think that's the anxiety that many people are feeling What we contend is the stabilizing force then going forward is going to be purpose. It's going to be what problem do you care about And that's what we need to be building our careers around around those problems And then more importantly, as things get disrupted, how do you navigate and create fluency around those problems across different institutions, across different sectors And I think that's the transition that we're in right now. And so we argue that stability actually is the new risk Like it's riskier to go do the stable thing And yet that's what our systems have been built for because we as humans are wired to want stability and security over happppiness Yeah. And so your point seems to be that we now have to generate our own internal stability as opposed to outsourcing it to these now wobbly institutions and roles. Not only our own stability, but our own sense of meaning and purpose. We outsourced meaning and purpose to the institution. R, Right? You tell me what the career pathway is, I'll go do it. and then you know hence we have You know shows like Severance making fun of that. You know, like we create this duplicitous lifestyle We're now moving into a world where that contract is broken, where we can't expect the institution to be providing us stability. W that means that agency is falling back onto the individual And while that can feel disconcerting to many because it's the first time they're actually having to think about like, what do I really want to go do? We contend also though that it can be very empowering once you get on the other side of it. Yeah, there's a whole bunch of agency in this approach to the world. just to ground it for people listening, when you see somebody doing this well What does it look like You know, what it looks like is someone that has Focus your career on a problem that they care about and then have moved across different sectors and solving it That could be doing it as an entrepreneur, It could be doing it as an academic. It could be having worked in a large corporation It could be working at an NGO But they're stabilizing force around it is they certainly issue that they care about. And those issues could change over time But they're not as enamored with saying, like I need to be part of this institution because that gives me my identity. Let me take a skeptics roll on two pieces of this. You are coming into this conversation as a man with Stanford, Georgetown, Harvard Business School, all these institutions attached to your name. For people listening who are like, sure, Mister Goopta, like you're at a place in your life where you can dismiss these things as kind of icons of the past, but you also have the safety and security of having checked all these boxes. Yeah. No no, I think that's an important thing to address A few things have changed You know, when I came out thirty years ago, it was a more stable environment. And those prestige markers could provide you that stability to allow you to go create those througher pathways I'm just contending in the world that we're in today, if I were coming out and look, I've got two boys coming out of school. I've got a daughter that's a sophomore in high school We're not directing them down a pathway that says, hey, go do X, Z because then here's how you're going to map out the next twenty years We're recognizing and having those conversations that the world you're walking into is like find the things that you care about The other thing in this is that My dad had one job for forty years. I had one career. That was the way I was raised These kids going forward are going to have four to six careers going forward That's the scaffolding that we're trying to bring to them. Like when I was coming out of school, I felt like I had to get on one conveyor belt and that conveyor belt was going to take me through for thirty years What we're arguing today is that those days have gone Um, and comoming in today, like the jobs that I'd go after thinking that they were stable Those are the exact jobs that people are getting disrupted with. And that's what's creating the anxiety, becausecause you have a group of people feel like I did all the right things And now I've gotten here And now those jobs are are not materializing in the way I thought they should. And so your point is that the North star in this environment is an internal sense of purpose and meaning. Yeah, but it's also aligning it not in isolation from being able to do well Let me, let me push on this a little bit Why can't my purpose be to create the financial security that I didn't grow up with or to keep my family safe. I think sometimes these questions of the pursuit of wealth or the pursuit of prosperity get dismissed as this superficial, ego driven drive that we often have. But often it comes from a place of security and safety and I know a lot of people who find deep meaning in The challenge of creating a sense of safety that they didn't necessarily inherit. What you just described there is totally fine and is perfectly acceptable. It's going through that thinking of like, is this my purpose? What we're contending is a lot of folks just follow the herd A lot of folks just follow the current And they're externally motivated without doing that thinking. What you just articulated there is very thoughtful There's a reason of why you're doing it And so when we talk about purpose, it doesn't need to be, again, all truism. But it is a sense of being thoughtful. about the why you're doing what you're doing Right? What we're saying is the prestige markers as they get disrupted, the only thing that's going to be stable then is you understanding why you're doing what you're doing When that disruption takes place, that why will be your stabilizing force In fact, I say this in my class, like, hey if you want to go do the traditional thing, go do it, but just know why you're doing it. Yeah, right Yeah And so so that's really the point. It's not about having judgment around my purpose is greater than your purpose It's just about knowing what your purpose is. So I want to get into kind of the how of how to do this. Fran, is anything you want to jump in with here the Harvard Business School for, I think three decades now. and In all three of those decades, we have been encouraging students with exactly what you're saying now, which is know why you're doing it donon't just follow the herd So what I'm trying to tease out in my mind. I believe there is something about this moment that makes it even more poignant But I don't yet know what that is. Yeah. Francis, I'll take a shot at maybe trying to answer what's different about the moment we're in. And I do think it goes back to the conversation with Anne around just the confluence of events creating this uncertainty and anxiousness. When it gets really unstable, like in the world that we're in right now I think people reach out to others to want to be part of something bigger than. U I think that's where we are right now. When I talk to young folks, there's a real resonance around like, I want to be part of something. I want to feel like I'm having some level of impact In a way that pre COVID, I was not seeing that honestly in the same students I was teaching different about this moment is I think where students' heads are. or young folks are as they're looking to embark on their careers I think when I was graduating, there was a sense of like, your life had thirds. Your first third was you learn, your second third was you took what you learn and you go earned And then your last third is when you return. you give back That was something you did at the end of your career And I think what we're seeing as a disruptive force right now is that people are realizing this idea of like monetizing what I've learned The shop life of that has condensed I can't go learn a skill and monetize it for twenty years. In fact, it's obsolete after one or two But they also the idea of purpose being something I do later pulled in. Irin, I'd love to get into some of the way you describe the how of this more entrepreneurial approach, which really resonated for me in the book It has a very venture infused kind of lean philosophy and you're transferring that to the unit of a life or a career. which feels really right to me. al to us a little bit about this process, what it feels like, how you recommend people approach this And so one of the things that we talk about, when you go around and ask folks, you, what's your net worth, they're going to probably write down a number that's some probably summation of their savings account, investment portfolio, and real estate assets And we define net worth in our society in a very financial way. So we shouldn't be surprised at our systems then are built around that. and support that. And then how people Make decisions You know a feed off of that And I saw this firsthand, you know, teaching out of business school, where students would be making job decisions based on you what the signing bonus was and the expected salaries were And you'd say, look, close your laptop. And let's talk about the big picture here And so what we talk about are the hidden capitals. What are the other capitals that really matter? And we use capital intentionally because we believe like financial capital that if you invest in them early and consistently over time, not equally, but consistently They will compound compomounding has a value to you. And so those other capitals that we talk about include mission capital, like finding impact and purpose. because that meaning ultimately, as I tell my students, you will have a reckoning. You can go so far without having any meaning That could be five years, twenty years or ty years, but at some point, you're going to feel like Hello And so identifying what that could be like. The second, you know we talk about is learning capital. You know, not in the context of skills, but in the context of curiosity What are the right questions to ask? you know And in a world of AI, that's going to become incredibly important. Exiential capital In a world where AI goes after IQ over EQ You know the experiences that you have, the diversity of experiences you have is what brings you unique human judgment to it It's not going to be the skill that could get automated Trust capital, the relationships you've built Arguably in a world of AI, you know, trust capital will be incredibly more important And then finally health capital. One of the things we're writing about our systems are currently set up for twenty, thirty year careers We're walking into a world where we're going to have sixty year careers I mean, young folks are going to be living longer So the idea of doing one thing for sixty years is also kind of a daunting activity. And again, when you say mission, I don't know that we've established this because name of the book is mission generation. You're not talking about a single generation as we That's qu it Yes, I'm glad you mentioned that Anan And we're absolutely not When we talk about the mission generation, and we debated this like we call it mission generenations, but we talk about the mission generation not being about age, but about agency It's a group of folks that really want to combine personally ambition and civic responsibility as a builder career At any age at any lif. At any age. That could be early mid what we realized as we were writing it The same questions, the same frameworks apply. They just manifest themselves differently. If you're twenty five getting starting a career late thirties, early forties, maybe two kids and in a mortgage orr you know, late fifties and about to be an empty nestter thinking about like whats the next twenty years look like? And so all of that can be part of the mission generation and the way we define it All right, once we find our mission, you suggest steps for turning purpose into action. You call it the mission flywheel. It starts with, you know recognizing what are the problems that you care about? What are the things that give you energy that you light up The second piece of it, and that ties to your mission capital. And hopefully over time, you've been able to accumulate something that gives you a sense of like, what are the things you care about? The next step then is reframing and thinking about, what have I learned What skills have I built? I think the biggest thing many times for folks, especially in the mid and late career stage around identifying, you know pivots is this idea of like I'm starting over again Like, o, do I really want to like I've invested all this time here? Do I really want to start over again in a new space or sector We haven't given language to all the accumulated experiences, skills, and people that youve built You're really not starting all over again Like in some ways, you have a beginner's mindset, but you're applying a wealth of accumulated capitals to bear in this new domain To your point, you know, I think the piece that's very venty entrepreneurally is like you got to run experiments What's a good experiment in purpose and mission. Yeah. so, you know, look In a world that's changing really rapidly, it's not good enough to just sit there and think about, like, what do I care about Because clarity doesn't bring action will bring you clarity., I really like your advice this to be in motion, take action Reflect as you go, but keep moving. And I think I think that's a really powerful part of what you're saying. Yeah, but it can happen by, you know, whether it be a side hustle, it could be happened by taking a new class of something that you care about It could happen by volunteering on an issue that you care about For me was it started with even guest lecturing at universities to think about if teaching is something that I care about Then I went into started teaching and I thought like, oh, maybe I want to be part of an institution And then I sat through meetings with academics. and I was like, oh, this isn't me So like I was able to find where in that construct where I would get energy from and what part of that was like energy that that wasn't for me. And so it's those kinds of experiments that you can run. Once you identify that, you've run these experiments, you know what you want to double down on, then double down on it and resource to scale and know think about like how you sustain that over time. This episode is powered by AT and T Business. I was thinking recently about those early days of building something of your own It's not just the little things You're building the whole plane as you fly it. Think of those mornings, you might find yourself sitting in a crowded coffee shop or the back of a library punched over a laptop and just hoping the public Wi Fi would hold long enough to upload a pitch It's a stressful way to start a day and an even harder way to build a legacy You're working from wherever you can piecing things together, hoping everything holds, and it's funny Connectivity is one of those things you don't really think about until it becomes a problem And when it does, it can throw everything off. The last thing you want is to be worrying about whether things are going to work. when you need them to That's why AT and T business is a great provider for small business owners. It's built to work so you can stay focused on what you're building, powered by AT and T business Built to work, get today at business. at. com Here's something we've all experienced and somehow still accept as normal Sitting on hold, repeating yourself, explaining the same problem to the fifth person who picks up This episode is brought to you by Parloa, the AI platform built to make that a thing of the past Parloa's AI agents work twenty four seven across voice, chat and email in any language and with zero way timee They remember every customer interaction, so no one ever has to start over result Service that doesn't feel like a transaction, it feels like being known The world's biggest brands already trust Parloa to deliver customer experiences at enterprise scale because when loyalty is on the line, good enough simply isn't. See Parloa's AI agents in action at Parloa. com That's PA R LO A. com This episode is sponsored by Toyota difference between having options and having the right options When something is designed well, it doesn't just give you more choices. It gives you choices that actually make sense for how you live That's the thinking behind Toyota's new all electric lineup Instead of a one size fits all approach, they've built a family of vehicles, the versatile BzZ, the adventurous BZ Woodland, and the expressive CHR each one, meeting people where they are Because independence isn't about doing everything differently It's about doing things in a way that feels natural to you Learn more at Toyota. com The new all electric family Royota Let's go places I wanted to get into kind of some of the threats to this way of living. you call them forms of resistance. You've written that being stuck is not failure, which I think is a really important part to underline because I think there are points we can get stuck in this evolution. It's a signal. So so what's the signal in being stuck The signal in being stuck is that there's a gap growing between what you're doing and who you're becoming And I say it in that context because it's who you're becoming that's creating the gap Not the decision you made Five years ago or ten years ago. I feel a lot of times when people feel stuck, they're like, oh God, I wish I hadn't done X, or I wish I hadn't done Y. now I'm stuck And then they're left looking backwards and they're left not moving Um When you think of it as a signal It's saying like, hey, I'm just becoming someone Different You know, Carl Young, as we talk about it, you know, it's called individuation. I mean, there's terms for this, right. So it's not like we're inventing it. People talk about this And this is just maturity and growing. Like, hey, look, maybe what I'm doing today was based on what people's expectations were of me But like as I keep doing it like I'm realizing like what I really care about is X. And that's just through a shared level of experiences, people I've met, things that I've done And that's what we're trying to highlight, right And that's why motionotions are data. Y. Yeah, motions are data, but also that like look forward, not backwards Right. I think there's a posture element to this as well and that you know, the intrinsic thing is to as soon as you feel stuck is to say, how why do I feel stuck? And what decision led me here? Yeah? Like I took the wrong road And all we're saying is like maybe you took the right road for the at the time And maybe now you're at a, you know, you're at a crossroads of saying like you want to do something different. And that's that's fine U and then think about like, how do you fill that gap U and so that's what we mean by that. Yeah. I love your framing. It's a gap between where you are and who you are becoming So you mention forms of resistance as threats to this way of living around. So the first is psychological resistance, which you define as the voice inside telling us that we're not ready or we don't belong in your experience coaching young people just starting off on their careers. How do you tell the difference between healthy, clear eyed self awareness And psychological resistance. I'm not ready for the NBA because I'm not ready for the NBA versus This is a big one. Look, I think Part of the inner resistance that we talk about here is the notion of Am I prepared? Am I can I do this And implicit in that and is a level of self awareness of what is it that I can do U, and what is it that I can't do But I also think it's somewhat around how do I frame doing it And I'll explain what I mean I think many times we as individuals when we're making a decision like this think about, like, what if I do it And you know, what if it doesn't work? What if it doesn't go right? U And so we focus on what could go wrong with a decision. That's the inner resistance. to focus in on the downside And I think that's very natural. It's very human. But I also think we overestimate risk Now think about What if it goes right And this is where I think most people underestimate and spend the least amount of time is really thinking about could what happens if it goes right And if it goes right and you go like, I'm marginally better than where I am, it's probably not worth the risk But if they could be transformative to where I am, Why not? Yeah. I think that's all really good practical advice. Okay, let's do relational resistance So this is friendriends, families, loved ones. telling you to slow it down or throwing flags that you're making the wrong choices. It often comes wrapped in genuine love and protectiveness It's not always wrong. We have an eighteen year old kid we're launching into the world Right now When I ask him to slow down or make good decisions or think carefully kind of about risk of reward of his decisions. If we take his perspective now How does he handle how does he handle that input and also handle me? and the other voices around him that are coming from such a well meaning place. Having kids slightly older, this is hard Um, you know, and it's hard as a parent, probablyably hardest as a parent when you're thinking about your child because you're trying to protect them and you're trying to provide them stability. I think that The personers getting the input needs to bring folks giving the input into their thinking and bring them into their w Why is it that you want to do it What is it that you want to go do? haveave them be part of the journey Right, Have them be part of the thinking around that All right. So let's say I'm a manager listening And I want to bring more purpose and meaning to the work of my team What advice do you have for me? I think the way you bring Purpose doesn't need to be only the outcome of the work that you do Right? It could be in the how you do your work. during your coffee break, et cetera. like You know, ask if two of them want to just sit down and ask them about how they're doing. likees You know, take them out to lunch. you know, make your team around you feel better. makeake them feel heard Make them feel part of something, you know, let them into you and with a sense of vulnerability U, because You know, even though you're spending all this time with individuals M of that time is alone It's not really opening up and getting to know one another. So acts of kindness can go a long way. If you're a more senior person, you know, how you mentor folks and back to the point that we were making You know, like I do this with my team of trying to ask them, what are their aspirations? And then like are there people in my networks that I can connect them with and so that they could go have coffee withs. To me, that's all a sense of purpose, right? is the idea that we're all looking out for each other Frances, I want to go back to the team question and ask you this because we have seen teams and organizations getting in touch with their noble purpose in an authentic way Do you have any advice for people who hear that It resonates. They want to bring their team or organization closer to it practically how you do that Yeah, the word that comes to mind to me is co production So I want to Make sure that my team that they're really like satisfying the Thomas the train useful engine, not towards profits, towards purpose so that I can demonstrably see that I'm making let's call it the the customer or the client betteret off. That's the first one is understanding. So in healthcare, am I helping make my patients healthier right. So I think it's It's the agency. I like the word that you used or of being Thomas the train useful and also, I mean in my experience People have an unlimited amount of energy for doing things for others and a limited amount of energies is for doing things for ourselves. So it's You know I find that the other distracted people don't burn out nearly as quickly as the self distracted people. Mhm And we see cautionary tales of organizations moving in the wrong direction. So the Toyota story that we have shared before, but it might be worth just revisiting. I think that's part of Boeing's journey over the last few decades of starting and thriving as this purpose driven organization and then kind of losing their way getting distracted by being what I would call self distracted on profits. By the way, wororst way to make prorofit is to get self distracted on profit. profit needs to be a manifestation of something more noble if you want it to be ongoing I think If you can get people in touch with the other of the distraction It's going to solve a lot of these problems. I think it's in a runs You know, what problem are you I bet if we watched him have conversations with people. It would be solving problems for others, not yourself. without without your saying it, I feel it as unsaid And I think so that to me is getting people other oriented. You know, when we watch our kids and kids our age, kids our kids age St start with problems that they're facing. And honestly, it's where all the first internet companies came in, right? And it's what's wrong with all of those companies is that they never stopped being self distracted, but the ones with real purpose. are the ones that are solving needs for others. And that's I think, where it becomes pretty glorious. And it becomes glorious, Francis. I love the way you frame that in that I think what we're also finding is those firms are able to attract better talent because it's so much more sustainable Right and And in many of those things of solving problems for others aren't simple problems. And so you need these folks aligned for Not like a two year quick flip, but like a seven to ten year like product run and they're there Yeah, and Arun to that point, I think This is your world, but the best venture capitalist approach these problems with that kind of patience and that kind of timeline. Like if we're if we're taking a big enough swing, this isn't like a three to five year run. That's exactly right. Like if we're going if our ambition is big enough in terms of the worthiness and nobility of problem we're solving, then it looks a little bit different than the traditional venture model If someone's listening and tomorrow, they just, they want to make their current job more purposeful, more meaningful, what's one step they can take tomorrow I would really on day one, really take an inventory of your capitals. then just think of one thing on each of those that you can do differently. So on trust Capital, what's one relationship that you can go reach out to onn health capital, what's one thing that you can invest in for yourself self care is important On experiential capital, what's one thing that you can do to give yourself just a different experience, something that you haven't done before, get yourself out of your comfort zone. learearning capital, like what's one question that you hadn't really pondered that you just wanted to thinkink about, you know to really get your curiosity going And think about your mission capital. Like what's the one you know, what's one What's one group? What's one other that you want to impact? Francis was just saying, you know, I think Using that as a framework I say one in each becausecause I think all of those are important over time. Again, all of them are going to be moving in the same direction in the same quantity consistently But I think it starts getting you moving in a more holistic manner. And those are all things that are totally within our control It's really nice part of it. Yeah. they're all within your control and they're all very human. Okay, fininally, a question, we ask all our guests What are you currently fixated on outside of work Oh gosh, you know, outside of work right now, you know, I think It's really family, honestly. I feel like for my wife and I, we're in this new phase where we've got two boys that are now adulting. We've got a daughter that in a year and two years will be going off to college And so I think what I'm fixated on is it's enjoying this transition period thinking about what that looks like for us even going forward. It's one thing to be talking about it for others But you know, if I'm being honest, you know, we're celebrating our thirtieth anniversary this year. And so there's, you know, I think for me, there's a lot of that alling coming together. in August. And so I think that's where a lot of share of mind has been A, what advice do you have for us? We have two boys who are starting to adult. What advice do you have for us? It's daunting. It is daunting. I think my daughter will be able to adult sooner than they will coming out of school. We have no comment I shocked to hear say that. Yeah.. No, I don't look I think the only advice I've started to really know hold on to is just let them figure it out I they will And it may take a bit of time, but they they ultimately get there The other thing, you know, with our kids, you know, I I do say like, you know, separate out what matters from the noise And like Big decisions that you got to get right, likeike' who you want to be with, you know, on the journey of life not like, oh, what job did I get here? or did I, you know, like So focus on make sure you get the big ones right and the noise stuff will kind of fall Our own goopd out. Thank you for coming on fixable Thank you for having me. This is a great conversation. I really enjoyed it With no fees or minimums on checking accounts, it's no wonder the Capital One bank guy is so passionate about banking with Capital One If he were here, he wouldn't just tell you about no fees or minimums. He'd also talk about how most Capital One caafes are open seven days a week to assist with your banking needs Even on weekends, it's pretty much all he talks about In a good way What's in your wallet Terms apply, seeee capital onene d. com slash bank, Capital One NA member FDIC Insurance isn't one size fits all. That's why drivers have enjoyed prorogressives name Y prrice tool for years now. With the N Your Price tool, you tell them what you want to pay and they'll show you options that fit your budget. 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Sessions average twenty one dollars with insurance and some pay as little as zero dollars depending on their plan Visit growthapy dot com slash ACast today to get started. That's growtherraapy dot com slash Acast growrtherraapy. com slash ACast Availability and coverage vary by state and insurance pl Francis, we made it All of our episodes of Purpose at Work are out into the world I'm feeling a sense of achievement on this one I want to do just a quick recap of who we talk to. and then I'd love to get into some of the lessons that you and I are together and separately taking away from these conversations. How does that sound? It sounds great So we kicked it off talking to Molly Graham about the risk reward of really pursuing a purpose driven career. One of the things that is so remarkable about Molly is her own tolerance for fear and uncertainty and not knowing the answer Before she takes these really big and interesting swings And you know, one of the things I took away from that conversation is that this is going to require a stronger stomach than a more traditional path it will feel like we're jumping off cliffs a little bit more. so we have to build the resilience to do that and you know, wear good clothes so that you know, bumpers and the like Yeah, we don't need to grow wings. No. No, no, no. But we do have to be able to survive a couple couple bumps A couple bumps along the way. A couple bumps. So then we talked to Emily, the recruiter about many things, but also about not outsourcing your purpose entirely to work You weren't able to join us for that conversation, but I know you listened to it word for word. I loved that episode so much. I feel like if I were looking for a job, it was just expert hands for guidance. And if I was the parent of someone looking for the job, really good insight into the job market today And so just the practicality of it, but then also the spirituality of it. I don't even know what else to call it. that about where do you derive meaning? And you know, she has a beautiful architecture of where meaning can come from and spoiler. It's a stack of things. you don't And work is only one of them. And so if work is doing it, great. And if it's not, there are other ways also to do it. So it was really Inside a very practical thing, it was how do you construct a life? And I was just deeply moved by the conversation that the two of you had. Then we got to talk to our old friend Jodie Cantter which was such a fun reunion about the urgency of meaningful work And then what it what it takes to go out there and not just find it, but create it. To be in touch with our agency in building our lives around kind of meaning and impact And of course, what an astonishing messenger she is for that She is an aspiration for the agency that you can take. and the Kendu spirit, like I loved how she not only has it But you's really thinking hard about how to cultivate it in others. Well, I had the privilege of going out to Vancouver for the TED talkal and talking with the amazing Yara Shahiti and her mom, Carrie Salter about what a purpose driven creative life looks and feels like And I know this Part of it was very resvant for you too, Francis. what it looks and feels like to bring your loved ones with you I mean, it was so cool. to bothoth of them and not just see and hear. the story of their deep collaboration, but really you know, be in the room and feel it You know, what I really appreciated about that conversation is that We can bring our loved ones along in trraditional, you and I like we work together. That's one way to do it. But we am at Francis d. com Right. An at Francis d.ot com But we can also bring our loved ones along when we have very separate things that we do during the day And I thought that was a very poignant. message. Yeah. and of course, part of their story is that they did that informally You know, they collaborated informally for a long time, playing distinct roles in the creative process and then finally realized, oh, we could formalize this collaboration. we could put a re company. We could start a production company. I think not enough families work together I know it's not a popular opinion, but I just I believe it. Yeah. Not at's work would endndorse that. And finally, we just had the pleasure of talking to Arun Gupta and how purpose can create internal stability, even when the world is feeling unstable. and really guide a life and career. And I I just love that he put words to that and underlined it because I think it's a message people really Yeah. really need to hear right now So when we put all of these conversations together, I want to try to pull out a couple of meta lessons. And we'll just see if we get somewhere interesting here My first one is Everyone we talk to I heard some variant on the idea of paying attention to what brings you to life So the power of your own vitality as A metric to pay attention to as you kind of explore this idea of purpose and meaning, what are you doing? Who are you talking to? What are you experiencing? What are you looking at? Where are you in the world when you feel most alive And that was very resonant for me. I always hear you say some version of If an anthropologist, that's exactly what I just wrote down. Yeah. You know exactly what I just wrote down. If an anthropologist followed you around, what would they observe? And to your question, when would they observe you were at your most vital, you know, your vitality score. And actually, I like to know it for the highs and the lows I think learning happens at the extremes, both extremes. and And as you have quoted to me, you know, what are you seeing? what are you smelling? what are you doing? Who are you with? What's what are you hearing? All of it But if you take that perspective and you're curious, not judgmental about all of it. You're just curious about narrating it, then you can bring intentionality. then everything is fixable. That's like our premise. And so But golly, do you need an accurate diagnosis before you go in and change things? And so have your inner anthropologist help you with an accurate diagnosis and pay deep attention to the extremes Francis, I'm professionally obligated to ask What are you doing Banking feeling Eating experiencing when you feel most alive. I feel most alive when I am pursuing. so cousin of purpose when I am pursuing the act of democratizing access to education. And I think I would gnaw off a limb to do that. So I've spent my my career providing access to education to a few people And what now brings me alive is to keep doing it for the f, but to do it for many, many more And so the anthropologist would see a spike when I'm in front of thousands, whether it's online or in very large classrooms trying to unleash the capacity of people try to both build the capabilities of people and to unleash them in the world. Now the ways in which I do it and the urgency with which I do it is heightened now I have a sense of time and a deep appreciation of time As you know, the last year has been I've been on my own health care, my own health journey. I'm recovering from cancer. I'm fine. Everybody went through the gruesome parts of the treatment. I'm now on the lovely parts of the treatment. It really has left me with I don't want to waste time. I don't want to waste time. And so I feel more directness and more urgency In getting after it And so there's any listeners, I would say, don't wait to the aftermath of a health diagnosis to get after it. urgently to G after it. I think I think to the extent that you can marshal the urgency of what you're supposed to be doing. And it's so clear, I'm supposed to be removing the obstacles that I see as pebbles and people experience as boulders, and my job is to Point them out and help them sweep them away The irony is I've been a teacher for three decades And I feel like I now understand what it means to be a teacher. And I that's what I you know, I can do anything I want. That's what I choose to do. And that means try to serve as an inflection point in people's lives. What's really interesting about this conversation is Where you started in describing your purpose? has evolved into the language I would use to describe my own purpose. almost exactly But I feel like we are very different people. on overlapping, but sometimes parallel missions, the language that ourur listeners have heard in this series and that I think is most resonant for me now is to play a catalytic role and The evolution of someone else. Yeah I here's where I would say we're different I have a max fifteen minutes one on one with somebody One time fifteen minutes. hope it works