Quick Fire Questions and Closing

I became the boy that wasn't able to speak, but could sing. I have a stammer, you know, so I'm finding it hard. My name is uh You find it in the strange place . Uh having a a stammer is is hard . It was hell. At school, I was badly bullied. Like lads would haul me down in the in the playground and say, let's beat the words out of him. You know, it was a very lonely place. You started singing. What did that do for you? I could finally get out of me what was in me and and I could express myself through music and that that changed my life. Hey, I'm Gareth Gates and I'm in great company. It's the Gareth Gates that is going to be. You had sold 3.5 million records worldwide by the time you were 18 years old. Simon Kell was right. I saw pound size in his eyes when I couldn't speak. Katie Price claimed in one of her books that That was tough. It just kind of made me extremely wary of people in the industry. This, you know, literally all happened before I was uh before I was eighteen, even if you actually find it hard to talk as it is, you never talk. That's a problem of mine, you know, I don't talk much. I don't, you know, sort of air what's in my mind. You can't help but feel like it's a defect. You don't still believe that, do you ? Hey guys, welcome back to Great Company. Now I am beyond excited for today's guest on the show because it's full of everything. It's got nostalgia, um, it's got heartache, it's got love , and he's probably one of the kind est people I've ever had the pleasure of interviewing. It's Mr. Gareth Gates. Now, if you watched Pop Idol back in the day, you'll know exactly who Gareth Gates is, because when I was 13, 12 years old, and I was watching the final of Pop I dol, Gareth Gates was the person in the final. What I didn't know that I know now is that he has struggled throughout his life with a speech impediment, and the only time that he doesn't really stutter or stammer is when he is singing. So we hear about a story, we hear about what it was like growing up, feeling different, feeling like an outsider, doing pop idol, and life since then. Also, within our show today, we have Chris, who's also going to join the show. He's a speech therapist. Now Gareth feels much more comfortable when Chris is in the room. We have a camera on him and a mic on him. So when you see and hear Chris, you'll know exactly who he is. Um, he himself also has a speech impediment, and it's incredible to see this relationship between the two of them. Now, before we start the show, I would just like to ask you one thing, like I always do, if you could please subscribe to our show and join the amazing community of followers and subscribers that are already with us. It keeps allowing us to make a better show, keeps delivering on the guests that you want, and keep making the show bigger and better every single day. If you can do that one thing for us, thank you so much. Enjoy this beautiful episode of Great Company with Gareth Gates. Gareth, firstly, I said to you before, I'm so excited for this. As am I, mate. We also have Chris in the room. Yes. And perhaps rather me explaining who Chris is, who's Chris? Chris is my speech coach. Um we both share the affliction of stammering and we're on the same speech therapy program . And so every time I have an interview like this, whether it be on a live to television uh program or radio or a podcast like this. I I have him around. He isn't a a sort of trained um speech therapist, he's more of a mentor that we share the same affliction and he will throw things at me if I don't speak properly. So um I'll be dodging them all the way through. And Chris Chris, you're on mic, so you can say something, can't you, Chris? I can say anything he wants, yes. I can abuse. What is your what is your relationship like with Chris? Just so I understand that a little bit more. Because I I met Chris and Chris explained to me that he also has a stammer. Yeah. Uh having a a stammer is is hard. It's uh an affliction I've suffered with my whole life as a kid. It was hell at at school. It was uh traumatic . Answering a a register was you know something that I feared every single day. Reading aloud in ka class was was hard work. Uh I actually once peed myself in in class because I couldn't um ask the teacher to go to the toilet and that you know can can you imagine that as a as as a child that mortifying. Um, and so it's it was a very lonely place as a kid. I didn't know anybody else who had a stammer, and you know, I felt like I was the only person going through this, and then some ten years after that, I found a program called the Maguire program , and it's filled with people who stammer, basically. Um, and it's it's run by people who share that same affliction. So we all we're all in it together. And yeah, ever since then I've been using this new way of speaking, brand new way of breathing, and more importantly, a new way of tackling the mind sets that uh come with having a stammer, which is avoidance. I I used to avoid situations like this at all costs. You know, and any time I was asked to do an interview on TV, I'd say no, but it it's funny, it wasn't until you start to say yes and push yourself uh into those fearful situations that things began to change and that fear begins to kind of melt away a little bit. Do you know that they always say that exposure is the best form of therapy? Yeah. And and and we don't do that because if you have a fear of spiders, you don't go near spiders. Yes. Right? Fear of water, you don't go near water. Fear of speaking, you don't want to speak, right? But you have to almost approach those places and force yourself into them to kind of get over them. Yeah, I mean pop idol, you know, twenty-four years ago I didn't want to do pop idol. Um I my mum saw uh an an advert in the local newspaper saying, Are you the next Robbie Williams? Are you the next Kylie Mon oghan? Are you the next idol? And I kind of viewed an idol as the image of perfection, a person you as as aspire to be. Yeah, and I just wasn't that. I wasn't perfect at all. In fact I was defected. Yeah, I couldn't speak. Um and yes I didn't want to enter that competition at all. But with a bit of sort of gentle persuasion from my mum, I did. And you're you're absolutely right. It wasn't until I forced myself to do those interviews and those, you know, live things on TV that I began, you know, to sort of get a grip of it. It was it was awful and it was hell at the time because you don't want to be exposed as being different or um, you know, having this problem , uh but you know you're you're absolutely right. It wasn't until I faced that that I began to get a bit of a hold on it. Can I be honest with you guys? I find it so hard that you say it's like defected. You don't you don't still believe that, do you? Um I it's it's tough when you go through the things that I went through as a kid, you know, I was badly bullied . Like lads would hold me down in the in in the playground and say, let's beat the words out of him. You know, that that that pain and that hurt and that trauma um still stays with me now. And it's like you you can't help but feel like it's a defect. I I f ully embrace it now because you know it's it's part of me and I've and I've learned that being different isn't such a bad thing. But when you've been through that hell, then it's it's hard to not um you know have a have a negative association with it, I guess. Gareth I did,n't want to interrupt you in mid flow . But that's not a hundred percent. Okay, cool. You can speak much better than that. Okay, cool. Why does it make you feel more comfortable with Chris around ? Believe me, without Chris here, my speech wouldn't be nearly as fluent or as or as eloquent as what I wasn't happy with that either. Come on, get it right. As fluent or as uh eloquent as what it is now and just having him here, pulling me up like he just did, is exactly what I need because I often start off strong in these in these chats. Yeah. But then everything kind of spirals because I to talk too fast and then I start to stumble over my words. But can you explain this to me? And also with Chris as well, you can jump in because and I want to tread carefully here. What the way Chris you sort of talk to Gareth would be it's almost like a it's sort of command in a way. And is that how it has to how the relationship has to happen in order to you feel calmer. Yeah, it's not immediately obvious, but I'm a little bit older than Gareth . I think that gives me a little bit of an advantage to be slightly authorit arian. That's not in my nature. But for me, the symbiosis of it is based on that that I'm I feel older. We're on the same program. We know how to use this same techniques, which I just did then . And I think that's how it works. For me, that's the only way I can do it. Wow. And talk me through the breathing breathing technique, Aerith, because I can I can see that when you're doing your breathing, right? What is that technique? It's uh retraining your costal diaphragm. Every time you speak, you breathe, and then you speak and then you release the air that you don't use and then we pause again. So it's pause, breathe, speak, release. And our dia phragm as a stammerer has been kind of trained over the years to freeze in fearful situations. That's where you get that , you know, and it's very, it's it's stuck. And so we're now retraining that to have its sort of full range of motion as you will. Can I just say this is so powerful? It truly is. Like I I I just want to be like very so it's really powerful. Always and maybe because my emotions are high anyway, but it makes me emotional for some whatever reason. I I recently watched the movie I Swear. Yeah. Ye,ah yes. I d uh I also watched it and I was extremely moved. It is phenomenal. Yes. It is so it's so um John Davidson. John Davidson um has Tourette's and it's about his life and how he grew up and how tough it was growing up. Because no one understood what he was going through. And with threats, if anyone doesn't know what it is, it's where you have sort of a sudden outbursts of sort of ticks or um you say things that you shouldn't probably say in public and you can't control it. It's like trying to sneeze but holding the sneeze in, right? Yes, that's true. And watching that, I just felt so sorry for someone who who was going through something so horrendous and no one understands it and actually it's just crap. But raising awareness to these things is so important because there are so many people out there who have stammers who are probably listening to this right now and thinking, God, maybe one day I can do this, I can achieve what you've achieved. Yeah, I I think one of the proudest mom ments of my career and and my life is that I I heighten the awareness of stammering with Pop Idol, you know, and that that exposure. People still now come up to me, stammerers, and say, you know, thank you for being so open about it, talking about it. You know, I at school when I was going through it, it was I felt very, very lonely. I if if only there was a person in the public eye that I could go, well actually I'm like them. Yeah. That would just made things much easier because I was the only person in my school that had a stamina so nobody knew what it was. And it was like you're just a you're just a freak or you're or you're different or you're weird. Um you know, so you you're absolutely right, heightening awareness. Actually, and I I haven't really spoke about it yet because it's a bit too early, but I've actually written a musical called Speechless, um, which is about this. And um we we had a workshop two weeks ago um of the first half of it. We've only written the first half, we're writing the the the the next half this year and then we've penciled in a uh a theatre in the West End for next year. Wow and it and it's very, very, very powerful. I can't sort of give too much away, but that's about again , you know, heightening the awareness and getting that that message out there. Not even to people that, you know, have this same affliction as me, to anybody who has anything that you know they feel holds holds them back. You don't have to accept, you know, everything you're given in life. You can um you know you can change and you can be any anything you want to be. And I think that's the message we're um try and sort of bang on my drum. Can I ask does does it get you said that your stomach gets worse during interviews like this or so like on news or whatever? Is that because it's it's an anxiety thing? Not an it's not a nervous thing, but it becomes worse when nerves kick in. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. You know, in in more pressurized situations things become a bit a bit harder. But I think also I start off ex extremely well in interviews because Chris is very firm but then as I get talking you know I've got a lot to say yeah and and I'm and I'm absolutely fluent up here but sometimes it just gets stuck. That's interesting because what you want to do is you want to get your story out. And you and as we talk and when we're passionate about something, like I'm doing right now, our speech gets quicker. Yes. It gets faster. You get more excited. Yeah. But you have to control it the whole time. Because if you don't control it, then you start to stammer too much. Yes, and then it it's a spiral, then as soon as I start to stammer it, just everything starts to unravel, and that's when Chris Steps in. Gets airtime. I'd actually quite like you to regroup. Okay. Yeah? Good. You alright? Yeah. I just want to take you back to school times, right? When did your stammer start? When did you notice it? For as long as I can remember. My my dad had a stammer actually when he was young. He was one of the very, very fortunate w w ones that grew out of it. Um I I haven't my my middle sister Charlotte has a stamina too. Yeah you know, it was tough at school. It was it was some of the hard hardest hardest years of my life, but um it's f funny, it's made me the person I am now, it's made me very, very, very resilient. I can I can handle a lot more pressure and and and fear of of stuff without it you know kind of breaking me. Um yeah and and although it was tough at the time um in a sort of w weird sort of way I.'m quite thankful that I went through that. This is in Bradford, right? Yes, yeah. So it was in Bradford where you grew up. And just just talk me through those moments when you would go to school because I cause imagine kids are cruel, right? What kind of things were happening in the school? It was, you know, a daily anxiety would set in from you know from the morning, from when the teacher would read out the register and you have to say yes, miss and I and I l literally w wasn't able to it was we'd call it the creeping death where you know you know the there's t two more people before your name's gonna be read out. There's one more person, then and then that anxiety uh creeps in and creeps in and the fear starts to rise. And then I'd be like I'd struggle saying yes, miss, and then the classroom would laugh. It's exactly the same with reading. You have to go along and read a sentence or paragraph from whatever book we're studying, and you know, you see that it's four people away, it's three people away, shit, shit, oh god, you know, and and the anxiety, and then yeah, it we it it was awful. And we all know what kids are like. You know, I don't blame those kids because they were kids, you know, and but you were also a kid, so it's hard to Yeah, yeah. But you know, again it goes back to what I was saying earlier. It's like there was there was nobody else in school that had a stammer. There was nobody in the public eye I could say I'm like them. So you know we were all kind of blind and um yeah I've I forgive them for laughing. I do and and and I forgive people on a day to day basis when they laugh. Whenever I'm in a restaurant, for instance, now one of the things that us stammerers go thro ugh. We'd we say we avoid words that we know that we're going to find hard, and we replace them with words that we know that are easier. The hardest thing for a stammerer to say is their name because it's the first thing you have to tell somebody when you first meet them. Hey, you know, you shake someone's hand. You supposed to tell them your name. You know, as a as a kid, I told people that my name was something else, you know, my middle name's Paul, so I'd call myself Paul or John or whatever, you know, you know, and can you imagine how soul destroying that yeah that is your your name is your identity it's it's who you are but it's it's the hardest thing for a stammer to say I'm I'm sure there was thousands of people when I went on TV for the first time and you know they was like wait a minute his name's not Gareth it's Paul or John you know I'm I'm sure there are lots of people that was uh extremely confused but yeah but why is it that because it's the pressure of saying you I'm just trying to understand that it's there 's there's only one answer to that question isn't there whereas a stammerer uh will avoid words like for instance, um you want a um odd um try to think of an example. Um but I get it I get it with the name because there's only one answer. You joined the choir at nine years old, wasn't it? Yes. Bradford choir. Yeah. And you started singing. Yes. What did what did that do for you? What did that make you feel when you started singing? Well, I hadn't been able to speak at all as a kid and then uh at the age of eight at all. Yeah, well um I I just f find it very hard. I'd be really sort of evidently struggling, you know, to everybody around me. You know, I I I remember being four or five years old and just not being able to speak, and you know, the impact that having of you know everybody everybody laughing or mocking, you know, I I have those early memories. Wow, even as early as four. Yeah, yeah. Isn't it crazy how that sticks with you? Yeah. We we think four year olds, like just we think oh they're just four year olds. They can't remember that. They're never gonna remember, but you remember those moments so well. Like it was yesterday almost. Yeah, and it's uh strange you can't really remember much else about those times, but you remember the you know, the hard tim es. Um but at the age of eight actually before I joined the Braff Cathedral , I my first school putting on a production of Joseph and his amazing technical dream call. I was a very shy young boy that couldn't speak. And so, you know, I wasn't gonna be attending those auditions, you know, but my friends went along and they sort of encouraged me to go along. And I was just asked to sing on the spot by the music teacher. And I sang and for the first time, kind of music came f flooding out of my mouth, my lips, my tongue wasn't tense, and I could finally get out of me what was in me and and I could express myself through music and that that changed my life. I remember that first day eight years old like just we it just changed everything, everything just poured out of me. What were you singing? Any dream will do from Joseph. And I just and I just sang, and that changed my world. I I then knew from then on, you know, that my all my energy had to be put into music, and that's when I learned to play the piano, the guitar, the drums, and I spent hours on my instruments and singing because that was the only way I could get out of me what was in me, and and that kind of ch anged everything. You know, music saved me because, you know, I don't know what I'd be doing without it. You know, I I I had an outlet at last. What do you think it was? What do you think it is about the music? Why do you think singing made you relax, made you not feel tense in your tongue? I'm I don't know. I mean I there's I don't know. I think you know, every time I sing I adopt a different persona. I'm not me. I you know, I'm wearing a mask, you know, I've done lots of big Western shows, d I've done Lame's, I've done Joseph , um, you know, Footloose, Legally Blonde, um, you know, all those shows have m big kind of lots lots of dialogue where you have to speak and and act, and it' its's and strange once I've learned a script and I'm acting, I'm walking in a different way, breathing in a different way, often in a different accent, you know, I'm not me, I'm not Gareth. I'm Gareth Gates the singer or I'm whatever role I'm playing in in those shows and it's it's a crazy thing in the mind that I just stammer goes. Yeah. Yeah. It is crazy. It's crazy. I'm trying I'm trying in my own body and head to understand why that happens. Yeah, I don't know. Because that's a magical thing. Yes. But also an upsetting thing because it's when when you're not being yourself, that's the moment your stamina sort of softens a little. Yeah, I mean it is upsetting that I can't be like that when I'm just being me, but you know, I don't see it like that. I d I see it as that that kind of sav ed me. Yeah. That was my lifeline. And that's what I kind of grew up onto, held onto and I was like, yeah, I'm gonna put ev everything into this. Have you ever uh met any of your bullies again? Have you ever seen them or spoken to them? Um well, uh after pop idol, I was doing my A levels at the time. So I was in my second year of A levels. This is after Pop Idol yeah well so the the live shows for pop idol started at the end of uh 2001 yeah you know so and and it was December, I think, when the live shows actually started. So I'd already started my last year of A levels. You know, and so young. Yes. So yeah. And I was um I was at the school that I'd been at since the age of 11. So there was lots of bullies there that, you know, kind of witnessed that and saw that. Um and then in the February or something, you know, it was still um part of the sort of academic year. You know, I went back to the school to you know to give us to uh to perform an assembly or something like that. Um and yeah, there were quite a few of the bullies that kinda walked past like tail between the legs. Um , yeah I bet it did quite nice. I bet it felt um yeah. No but I I I bet that felt unbelievable. Yeah, and why it felt nice was because you know up until Pop Idle, having a having a stammer was a very negative thing in my life because of those people that they made it a negative thing. But for the first time and pop idol , you know, having a stammer actually made me stand out from the crowd and in a weird way, yeah, it it was a positive thing you know I became the boy that wasn't able to speak but could sing and having a stammer got me noticed for the right reasons whereas in the past it was for the wrong reasons and I was like this is cra zy. You know, so seeing those people that made me feel that way as a kid, you know, was yeah, was actually quite nice . Can we uh can we talk about Pop I know? Yeah, please. Oh my Gareth, before you do, will you do something for me? Yes. Guess what I'm gonna ask? Slow down, take a few breaths. You're really quite quick and tripping up here and there. So yeah, would be really just to I know when you're passionate, of course. That's the price we pay. We have to distance ourselves from the passion, the enthusiasm, and control everything. But I can but it's you interesting you said it because I can still feel the passion, right? Yes. Which is kind of a mazing. Yes. Pop idol. So when I was at I went to a boarding school and um I say this every time I went to what it's like the the audience like, yes we know. You but every uh Saturday night, I think it was. So I must have been I must have been thir twelve. Yes. And every Saturday night we would um go and watch it. As a as you've been your boarding house and you go and watch it and we'd watch Park final And it was the it was like the greatest thing. Who did you vote for? Here we go. Uh next question. I wasn't allowed to vote because I was a boarding school. But I but I th but I I I I remember just being an all review and it was like the most exciting thing. It was the first like singing competition I it for for me it was like blowing my mind that this was like something we could watch on on TV, but you were in it, you experienced it. Yeah and it was the height it was was there no real social media. It was it was the the height of like paparazzi and media and and glitz and glamour and oh my god what was it like for you that whole process? I was it was crazy. I I I look back on that time with only kind of fond memories. You do, so it was all amazing. Yeah w yeah, it was tough at times of of course, but you know, Popidal was the first of its kind well before X Factor and the likes. And so nobody really knew what it was or what it was to become or how it would change people's lives. You know, all the shows that came after that, you know, had had had seen how it had, you know, exploited me and Will and and and how we had this this career now and we sold lots of records and toured and you know and was you know all over the the newspapers and the magazines so people who did it afterwards had a bit of a head start because they knew exactly what they were getting in into. Whereas, you know, we went in blind. It was it was a first of its kind . And you know, I'm I'm fortunate that I was young because you were 17. Yeah, seven. I was I was a boy. That's a big yeah, and you know, to to um to experience that as a boy and to be able to do e exactly what you love every day and to be able to have whatever you want and you know live this you know kind of gorgeous life it was yeah it it was amazing. What was the audition process like? Um that was tough. You know, I I genuinely walked into that room thinking there we're gonna go. You can't speak, you aren't an idol. Um you know, I'd watched people like people like Robbie Williams who has the gift of the gab and his show is as much about that as it is the music. And so I thought well I have them I can sing. I've trained in music my whole life. Uh I can do that side of things . But the other there's there's there's no chance. And I was more concerned about speaking in the audition than actually singing. You know, I wasn't even thinking about the performance. Um , but when they said , yeah, you're through to the live finals, I was like, what that just, yeah, I was, I was as as surprised as anybody else, I think. We had Will Young on the podcast. Yes. He's such a nice guy. Oh my god, he's the he's the best guy as well. I um and apparently you guys still chat, even Yeah, yeah. Yeah, we um we went through a lot together. You know, we was together at the start of that process and the end, and then we toured together, we had a number one together. In fact, recently um I had a message from from Will saying um well basically he's moved um uh out to Wiltshire now and he texted me saying, Have you got a place in this tiny little village in Wiltshire. And I was like, yes, I have a two-bed apartment there that I bought because it's opposite the school school that my daughter goes to. So I literally bought it for when I'm um not on the road, you know, I can sort of gravitate to there to see, you know, her, spend time with her, etc. He said, I've literally just bought a place in the exact same village. Absolutely mad. No, but the the smallest village in in Wiltshire and you know both kind of pop ada contestants are there. Are you like kindred souls? Like, what is that? That's bizarre that you find the same place. Um, he did say though on the podcast, he said um Pop Idol was a blessing and a curse because lots of people criticized him on the show. What was your experience of that? I I think that that show was actually made for somebody like me. You know, I I think I'm guilty for creating the kind of story-led cont estants. What I mean by that is that you know all the sh shows after that, they weren't, you know, so I'm only interested in your talent, it was the story that you came with, you know, your your um you know uh um uh try to think of an example um It is, it's your background, it's the story, it's everything. It's it's it's not it's not just the it's not just the talent. It's uh it's the whole package. Yeah. Of like where you've come from, where you are now, everything, right? Yeah, and I genuinely think that if it wasn't for Pop Idol or that kind of format of TV show, then I'd have found it very, very hard to get in into the industry because of my stammer. You know, I wouldn't have been able to do the promotion, you know, the the interviews on the live television shows or on the radio. You know, I'd have I'd have r really s struggled with that. I had the talent, but I didn't have the kind of personality that you need as as an artist for fans, you know, to kind of latch on to. But you you ha you do have the personality. That's the thing. And that's must be the trickiest thing for you. You had the personality where you've got the frustrating thing. In your in your head, you know you've got the personality, you just can't get it out because you have the stammer. Yes, that's the most fr frustrating thing, you know, in my in my life. I want people to see me, you know, and they can't at times. Um but Popeida was perfect for me because it showed my story. You know, people kind of labelled me that boy that can't speak but can say what that's uh credible yeah so for me you know it that show was was made for me um yeah Simon Cow um kind of took you under his wing from the start in lots of ways. He just saw you as his boy. Yes and he saw I think Simon Cow must have seen it. It was the first time Simon Cow was on TV as well. Yes. He was the first time he was a judge, right? Yeah, that's right. And I think he you know, he's uh he's a god in terms of knowing what will s sell sell. And um absolutely sure that he, you know, heard me speak and then heard me sing and thought, wow, we can, you know, we can absolutely market this. This is, yeah. Oh, he did. I saw pound signs in his eyes when I couldn't speak. Wait, this guy's got a stammer. Here we go, guys. Let's get him in. How do you how do you cause that show part it was huge? I mean it it it like it I mean it took over everything. It was uh a movement, right? That comes with a lot of fame at such a young age. Seventeen years old. Seventeen years old, I'm like having my first Picardi Breezer. Like I'm not I I I'm not like you know what I mean? I'm just experiencing maybe having a cigarette, you know, whatever it is. How did you handle fame when it hits like that so and so quickly? Yeah. And at such scale. I think my age actually helped because it was just all fun for me. It was naive. Yes. Yeah because you didn't really think about the business end of it or the you're you you're just like wow this is this is really incredible and um I just enjoyed it. It was tough at times, you know, and they, you know, sort of ask a lot of you. Um but when you're having the success that, you know, that I had I had number one after number one after number one, and then it's you know, the it becomes you know I could then s start to support my family and um you know give them the the lifestyle that I had and you know, the f all all those sort of lovely things you can do, you know, as as a re a result of being successful was I it enjoyed that side of things. I'd like to stop you, Gareth. Apologies, Jamie, for my consistent interruptions. You can keep interrupting, I don't mind what you know Gareth, how you said that you start well and then you speed up. Shall we start? Regroup and start. Cool. I'm happy you jumped in. Yeah, great. Thanks. You had sold 3.5 million records worldwide by the time you were 18 years old. Simon Cow was right . That's right . That's a lot of records. Yeah. It was it was great. I was thankful for thankful for Simon. You know, he he saw that in me. He um you know as you said earlier on, I was I was his his boy, I heard a story from a person who was in the room um on my first audition, and they said that when I left he raised his hands and said, We've f found our pop idol, you know, from the earth from that early on. He just, you know, sort of knew, you know, that that was, you know, exactly what exactly what they were looking for. But you cause you had the voice, you had the look, you had the story, you you had you had the whole package. Yes and that's why those shows are so brilliant. Because as you said, which is upsetting is um you don't think you would have made it into the industry unless it was sort for a show like that. So what those shows highlight are people who are incredibly talented talented who deserve to have a moment. Yes. You know, have that success that they deserve. Yeah. And that was it for you there. Yeah. And it's and it's happened over and over again with many artists, you know, in those in those shows. For instance, Susan Boyle, for instance, you know, would have would have never have had had the success that she had on that. Sure, you know, kind of worldwide. You know, that's the example. Can I ask you a um big question? When you're standing there in the final and I'm watching it, 12 years old, in my boarding house And you're there and you're standing next to Will Young, right ? And the names are announced. Mm-hmm . I'm thinking it's gonna be you winning it. Are you thinking it's going to be you as well. No, I no. Because when Will's name was announced, I was like, sorry? What's happened here? Yeah, no, I I um you know I certainly didn't expect an you know anything. Yeah, I d I I think they were I I was certainly surrounded by people like, you know, this is in the bag, you've got this, but you know, I didn't choose to believe that I still then thought, you know, I'm not an idol, I'm not the image of perfection, I'm not that person . Um, and hey, if I'd have lost to anybody but Will, I'd have been fuming. But um, you know, he was he's a he's a he's a talent and he's a lovely man and um yeah And shout out to Will by the way who uh Will if you're listening to this and I'm I wanted you to win as well. I knew it. With fame and things like that, what happens, especially at a young age, that comes with just everything else. Like it comes with you know you as soon as you finished pop-up, you got flown to Miami or Florida to record the album or record Unchained Melody, isn't that right? Yeah, so literally the next day. I mean, you know, that that week of the final both me and Will we signed our album deal, you know, before the final actually happened. So we knew we were going to be artists and make a record. Kev, can I be really personal and you don't have to answer? When you're that young, you're seventeen, eighteen years old and you sign a record deal, what does that record deal look like? Yeah. Big. It was it was uh can't I can't remember the exact figures, but it's you know, but it was it it was for something like half a million pound and you know and in those days, you know, that was that was big. You know, someone like me, you know, that come from very, very little, that was that was big. That was like life changing um you know and then everything else that came off the back of it you know I had big sponsorship deals you know and then the more you sell and then you know, all those big, big tours in massive arenas, you know, I was uh yeah, I I was earning a lot of money, you know, and to be able to, as I said earlier, you know, t to then sort of take care of your family, you know, the first house I bought was a house for my parents and my sisters who were very, very young at the time. You know, to be able to do that and to be able to give back to them who'd, you know, invested everything into me was the nicest feeling ever. You become super famous. You're you're singing, you're touring. That also comes with like um I imagine like a lot of female attention. Yeah, it was great. Uh it was it was fun, you know, just imagine being a young boy and having you know, everybody you know, sort of at your at your feet. It was uh it was great. You know, but but but more so , you know, I wasn't able to chat up girls. This is what I want to understand, right? So to not have to chat up girls and put the work in. It's brilliant. Because I that's what I you know that's why when you know growing up in my teens, right? Especially when I was younger, when I hit the age of like fourteen years old, it was all about dating. I just wanted to go to like meet girls and go to the other schools and hang out and flirt and do all the things I'd seen on TV, and it was just the most exciting time, right? But I imagine for you growing up that was a really scary time because you couldn't Yeah it wasn't flirt or chat or date or do anything because you were nervous about talking. Yeah, and you know, I avoided it at all costs. Um you know, being able to sing and um being sort of good at music at school gave me some respect, you know, and some attention from girls then, but yeah, I was I was debilitatingly shy. I I it was it was it was hard. Um you know so so fame and that exposure on the television, you know, really, really helped my love life too, which is good. I have to mention this . And you we can we can pass over it quickly. My My stamina's gonna become very bad now and I'm not being able to get a word out. Chris can ask for me . You're on your own, Gareth. Katie Price. Yes. Katie Price claimed in one of her books that you know she took your virginity . No comment. Oh yeah, hey. Is there truth in that or I I'll just say I was extremely inexperienced with a girl that was extremely experienced. So um yeah uh I could see why she thought that. Yeah. Yeah. It's a very good answer. Yeah . But but you did but you did and I'll go over this very quickly. It's just important to mention, right? You felt that people almost didn't take you seriously afterwards in a way? No, it was it was I I haven't ever spoke about relationships, you know. I uh you know I believe that relationships are between two people and I couldn't believe that somebody else was selling stories about um you know, i very very, intimate details, you know, I d and and I was sh shocked and I learned a lot about that, you know, um uh about people and about the industry and about trust, I guess, you know, I I I would have never have ever have done that to her or to anybody else, you know. And so it was yeah, it was a real sort of learning curve for me. Well said. That is so true, because they are doesn't matter what the situation is, they are quite sacred. Yes. And it's two people. Yes. Yeah. And if and if there's no sort of harm done in any place and it was just a romantic night, whatever, why is someone talking about that? Yeah. I felt exactly the same, um, you know, at the time. And yeah, it was a shame. It was a sh because she's a really, really lovely girl. She's you know. Um, but I couldn't quite believe that somebody would do that, I guess. How is your how has your um idea of trust changed? Um yeah, I I I I became sort of very war y of um Um trusting people after that because that was such a big thing on such a massive, massive scale. It was it was everywhere. It was all of the newspapers, all of the magazines, you know, it became everywhere. You know, it it became the main thing that, you know, in in every interview, you know, but everybody just wanted to know about that and not about my brand new album which I've worked tirelessly on. It was like, oh, that's a shame that I'm now, you know, sort of having to talk about this when actually I just want to be an artist. And um yeah, that was that was tough. Um and it really sort of made me re Yeah, it it just kinda made me extremely wary of uh people in the industry, I guess. What what and did d did you become anxious at the time? What what how does that had the fact did you just do you go into yourself do you just become quite what happens mentally? Yeah you you become very careful about what you text people, what you say to people because you know you always and you know if if you're a single man as well, well I I was a boy at the time, I wasn't even an adult, um but you become a sort of very, very wary about what you're saying to people because you're thinking to yourself, you know, they could sell this, you know, they twist it and y and yeah, it was tough times at the time because you know I was so young as well. Um this you know literally all happened before I was before I was eighteen even , you know, and it was just like, ah, this is a shame. Yeah. But even the words that you use in saying it's just a shame. It's just that you're you're just you're so kind about that. And and obviously for the things that you've been through and experienced, you you you have so much like forgiveness in your space. You're just like it's a shame that that happened. Because um there, there's you know, not even with that, but just with everything. There's a um there's a great quote which is seeking revenge is like drinking poison and wanting the other person to die. That's right. And what we do annoyingly in life, I think, is when we are felt wronged wronged by or bullies are horrible to us. We remember it and we we we we hate because that's the natural thing to do because it they they hurt you so much but the most important thing to try and do is forgive that's right because when you forgive that's when you become free that's right otherwise it just eats you up and it feels like you have forgiven a lot in your life. Yeah, you I didn't see any point in you know s uh hold holding on to grudges. It's um I've I've I've actually done the opposite. I've actually used you know all that hurt as a kid to make me uh stronger and a better person and you know everything that I've been through in life, I've just se seen it as as character building and you know I'm a b I'm a much stronger, I'm a much I'm a much resilient person as a result of that. When you were releasing your albums and your your first album had huge success. Yes. Then the second album again. And then you had a a little bit of a break, wasn't it? Yeah. Before your third album. Yes. And your third album didn't do as well as you hoped. No. If you've had so much success in the past, you automatically expect that the next album is gonna be as successful. Yes. I imagine. When it doesn't become as successful, what does that make you feel? It was just kind of part of the times and part of the journey I I I th you know think I mean it's you know it's disappointing when you've had so much success and then the album that you released after all that that success or the singles you put out, you know, don't go straight to number one, which they, you know, always did, and then you're like, oh that's a that's a shame. But I um but the next sort of batch of talent competition winners were out, you know, they'd already moved on to Pop Idol to, you know, they'd already moved on to X Factor. You know, and it I think that that's the nature of of the industry and particularly at that time, you know, where there was a brand new show, you know, sort of each and every year. Um pretty also pushes you in different directions as well. You know, I then went back to my original passion of uh of musical theatre. And and I think if it, you know, hadn't have been for that third album not doing as well, I don't think I'd have ever gone down that path. You know, which has led onto lots more, has even led, you know, onto me even even writing my own musical, which, you know, I think, you know, well hopefully um touchwood if it does well will will be my legacy I was watching earlier your and I and I saw bits of it, but I was watching the clips of your celebrity SAS. Yes Which was just amazing and the um Izzy was also watching one of the clips and it made us very emotional when you're being interrogated and you you break down and start talking about the bullies and everything and it's just um I didn't have Chris there with me, so my speech was much worse. And you know, being put into that situation, they're they're very um they're hard men and they know exactly how to get out of you, you know, what's under the ps surface and what's um and you're stretched in every way possible physically, mentally, emotionally, and you know, as soon as they start to tap into that, everything just comes out. And it it was it was awful. It was celebrity SES was one of the hardest things I've ever ever done, you know, and those f final stages where you're hearing these awful sounds in your ears and you're having to hold stress positions. You know, there were times you wanted to tap out, but I just, you know had to dig deep and you know all that was going through my head is you know this isn't as bad as what you've been through as a kid you know this isn't as what you've been through as a kid and you know and I think that's the reason why I sort of won the sho w. You said I was unearthing trauma and exposing scars I hadn't spoken about before. Yeah. Yeah, that's I you bury things, don't you? And just you know, hope that they never ever resurfaced. But touching upon that, it was it was hard at first but it then become very therapeutic and and and actually since then I've talked about that a lot more and I've dealt with it a lot more now. Um yeah, which has you know in turn made me stronger. 'Cause yeah, because i it I heard that it was the first time you they offered you a therapist after the show. Yes. It's the first time you'd ever been to therapy. Yeah. I I had th therapy for about six or seven weeks afterwards because yeah, they expose things, they kind of d dig up things you've put to bed many, many years ago, you know, and he really really brought a lot out. And um yeah, just you know, talking to somebody is and what's by far the best way to deal with that. Because as men we don't talk about things. No. And and I've been very open about this. And I I never spoke about anything. My anxieties, my the things that I was feeling internally. Yes and it's that's uh also a very lonely place to be because um you think you're different and you don't wanna even speak it what you're thinking because you think you're gonna be judged. That's right. And you're just trying to hide it. Yeah. And you know, all of those feelings. And if you actually find it hard to talk as it is, you never talk. And you know, that's a uh that's a problem of mine. You know, I don't talk much. I don't, you know, sort of air what's in my mind. I keep it all in. And I think that TV show was the first time that they, you know, kind of picked off that scab and then everything, you know, it's kind of came out. I'd even think of it like that, Gareth, where the the the best remedy is talking, right? That's why we say like therapy is talking. But if you don't want to talk that much because you're almost afraid of talking, it's it's almost a double. That's right. That's right. Yeah. And can I can I ask, because if someone's listening right now who perhaps is in that position and they're having a really tough time. And whatever they may be going through. What would you say to that person ? I'd encourage them that being different isn't such a bad thing and it and it actually makes you you . Um, you know, and these these scars that we bear and these you know sort of hard times that we go through um actually makes you a much better and a stronger person um in the in the in the long run um a piece of advice I'd give to l lots of people as well lots of people in the same in the same situation is to try and find the uh try try to laugh at yourself at times at times you know I um I have a funny story about um how I was uh asked to present a T V award um at a T V award show. This was probably ten years ago, and um I was waiting in the wings, you know, and that for a stammer is a massively highly pressurized situation. You know, you have to open the envelope and call out the winner. And I was like, oh god. So I'm there waiting in the wings. The presenter says, and to present the best daytime television award is Mr. Gareth Gates. And so I come sort of walking on. And I begin to read the auto cue and I said something like, uh, and the nominees for best daytime television program are and they showed like a VT. Then I opened the envelope and the winner was a TV show called Country File. Now, often as a stammer, is it's the first syllable of the word that you find hard. And so I said, and the winner is country coun Thankfully it was a pre record and the director said, Cut, cut and come running up to the stage. He was like, What are you doing? I was like, What do you mean what am I doing? I have a stammer. And so then the next time I'd I really hammed it all and the winner is cut cut cut cut cut So where do your passions like now? So you're you're writing this musical right and you're gonna write the other hal f. When when do you think that will be released? Well we're we're hoping for autumn two thousand and twenty seven. Um I'm you know so exciting. Yeah, it's it's really cool actually. I you know to it's hard to write something so personal and you know it it has to come from a place of of tr uth, you know. Um and I'm a producer now as well. I'm producing lots and lots of shows. Boy band in the buff. Yes . Um I train h hard in the gym now every day and I have done for the past seven or eight years. And buddy you look good. And then seeing the top off. You and over there nodding. Um yeah, but it was it was actually celebrity SAS that gave me the you know so even more more drive uh to train harder and be better. Um, and then yeah, it was only last year I was kind of coming up with ideas for shows, and yeah, I came up with this idea of boybanding the buff. Um, it's it's all the big 90s and noughties boy band hits from um bands like Backstreet Boys, N Sync, Westlife, Take That , Boys on Blue to name a few. Five, is five in there, is that everybody get up singing. That is unbelievable, June. Um and it's my s self four of the lads, very, very talented boys who've done lots of West End shows, all sing, all dance, and just so happen to look half decent without a top on . Perfect. Perfect night out. Wait, so who's your favorite band of all time ? Well, boy band of all time. Yeah, boy band of all time. Uh I mean I dreamed of being in in Westlife when I was young. I just really wanted to be in Westlife. And then I d I had absolutely no idea that Simon Cow like created Westlife. You know, I had no idea before my first audition. Just so happened I sang one of the Westlife songs in my first audition um to the man that created it. And uh and then um after Popeye the Westlife were on on tour. Um, and I performed with them at Wembley and I kind kind of came up and and sang one of their songs with Westlife. And I was what is that like? Yeah, what is that like? It was just incredible, you know, these were songs that I'd performed um as a kid, you know, in my school talent show. And to be singing with, you know, your your idols were yeah, it was incredible. But to now be singing these songs, you know, ever y night now on this brand new tour, boy band in the buffer going all over the country. Um we've extended now into the autumn of this year and into next spring. Yeah, thank you. Thank you for having me. Are you kidding me? That was just beyond amazing. Thank you for being so sort of open and uh you know these things are hard for me still, and you know, as you saw, I'm sure I started off very strong, and then yeah, but I would disagree. I I just where the way was lost or something faltered. I thought you were pinpoint perfect. Yeah. Truth I s I promise you. Maybe that's Chris or Chris, what do you think? I think it was a great interview. I think it was good. It went well. I think you were fantastic. And thank you for allowing me to interrupt. Anytime, Chris, you can stay there forever if you want to. Um thank you for you know having us as well because I I absolutely know that me talking about my speech will you know will will absolutely reach somebody on your podcast, you know, and it'll make a difference, you know. So just t talking about it, you know, and raising awareness is a big, big thing. So thank you. Kev, we'd like to end the conversation with eight quick fire questions. Okay, go. You don't have to make them quick, we can make them as smart as you want. What's a saying or phrase that makes you smile or cheers you up? Um saying or phrase I would have to say adapt and overcome. I've I 've I've had to do that my in entire life. When when you struggle with something, you you know have to be quick on your feet, you have to adapt, but still be sort of pushing to overcome and to push through whatever you're going through. Best compliment anyone's ever given you ? Um so um not long after Pop Idol , I was doing Comic Relief actually. I I did Spirit in the Sky for Comic Relief, you know, had a big hit with that for the charity and I was doing some promo for that and I walked into a TV studio and Rowan Atkinson was there. Rowan Atkinson, Mr. Bean. And he came up to me actually he said, Hey, I suffer the same affliction as as you do and he was really, really, really stammering and I was like, What? That's that's that's crazy. You know, all those big comedic rules that he's done and comedy for a stammerer is the hardest thing because it's all about timing and you have to get the punchline um you know sort of out at the right time and I couldn't believe what I was seeing and and hearing. And he then told me that the character Mr Bean was actually born from you know him not being able to speak very much, you know, and all that uh uh uh b bean and and and I was like what you know so that's another example wow of a person that has a stammer you know but actually using that you know and and and then creating this this character in the show which is now worldwide. You know know, everybodys Mr. Bean and that's th through him having a having a stamina and that kinda blew my mind. That's totally blown my mind. Yeah. That is so cool. Yeah. S see seeing sort of fellow person in the industry that's going through the same as you you are and that it's you know okay to be different. What scares you most about yourself ? Stammering live on television, that that for me is my biggest biggest fear. Really? Yeah. Yeah. It's still a big one. You know, every time I do any of the um the live TV, you know, like this morning, um Oli Rain we did a few a couple of months ago and the here level, you know, for that, you know, even even years and years after is sort of hard work. Yeah, but it's so amazing that you put yourself out there and actually do it, even though that's your biggest fear. Yeah, I I have to really because you know as soon as as soon as you start to say no to those things, th things get even harder. When was the last time you cried ? Um the last time I cried was possibly last week, my beautiful, beautiful daughter turned 17. Um, and we actually got her first car. Um and um she was like really, really, really made up. No, she cried, I cried. We all cried. What's something you can't let go of ? Um probably probably probably the memories of having to s stand up at school and speak, you know, those those will stay with me forever I think. What's your guilty pleasure? Um Um my guilty pleasure would have to be boy band music. Yeah, it's phenomenal. Um I mean it's the best. It's actually the best. Yeah, and I did a lot, a lot of research for this brand new show that I'm doing, and um yeah, and it just kinda kinda re kindled my love for boybody. It's so good. It's yeah. I you know I was I was extremely fortunate that I actually grew up in that golden era of pop . Um yeah, and it's you know, I think at the time it was sort of criticised to be, you know, sort of two pop, but it's it's it's just brilliant. It's uh yeah. Exactly. I want it that way, is Oh the best song ever written. I think I generally I think it's after with like Let It Be by the Beatles. It's like it's like the the it's the greatest that that guy who wrote that Max Martin, he he's just an absolute genius and um you know and yes it's extremely pop, but it's but he you know it kind of evokes an emotion and it's and it's brilliant. What turns you off? Turns me off arrogance . What turns you on ? Um The gym . Let's go. Turns me on. Let's go. I just love it. What do you like most about yourself? Um that's a tough one. I'm not um Um not not the best at f finding things that you're gonna have to say. Yeah, that I like I like about myself. I don't know. Um I'm actu um actually my new teeth. Yeah it's great perfect Gareth thank you so much thank you to Chris as well. Everyone needs to go and buy a ticket um to Boy Bands in the Buff. We're gonna leave all the links in the show description. Everything, fam. Are you kidding me? You're the greatest, and thank you so much. Come back anytime, we're doing you've been great company, so thank you so much. Thank you. You've been amazing. Thank you so much.