Wisdom on Longevity and Kindness

Hello and a massive welcome to Happy Place withith me, Fern Cotton. This is the show that learns from other people's life experiences. Today I'm chatting to Mary Berry. When we were young It was wartime My father really didn't want to garden But it was part of Dig for Brit So immediately our back garden was full of root vegetables, raspberries, strawberries. we like picking those. But Mums said if everybody gave up sugar in their tea in those days Not many people had coffee Everybody had sugar in the tea. If you gave up sugar in your tea, there would be some left to make a cake And everybody did in the household give up sugar Guys, how do I find you today? I've had one hell of a week. I am You don only feel like slightly going mad because you've just done too many things. There's been a lot of like After school activities, like millions's podcasts and talks, which obviously I love doing, parents' evening, It's like one of those weeks where there's no time for the gear change. It's like I'm one minute I'm podcasting and then I'm talking to a science teacher about my kids' grades. and I feel slightly mad probably means I need to pause at some point like I'm sure many of you do. and maybe this episode is exactly that for you, like you time. I highly encourage it. For you and me, I never give myself enough me time. So I'm wholeheartedly giving you listeners permission right now to not multi skill while you're listening to this, if possible. If you can just like lay down on the sofa O in bed, even better or in the bath. Listen to me in the bath. Oh my go, the best. Look, if you are cracking on with doing a job or you're out on a walk or whatever enjoy but Let's just all try and give ourselves a bit of a pause because life is wacky. It's too much. It's so full on. Now look, I was really excited about today's talk for lots of reasons. Mary Berry has been the podcast before. It was right at the start, like eight years ago. I got to go to Mary's beautiful house, which was sort of surreal in itself I remember very clearly that she gave me a little plate of biscuits whilst we were doing the podcast and I was too nervous to eat them. And also I thought the crunching sound would be maybe not so fun for you guys. But Mary ate biscuits throughout that first chat. Sadly, I did not repay the favour and bring any baked goods for this conversation today. reat and it's a treat for many reasons. There's something so important about interviewing older people I don't want to say that with any connotations other than it's someone that's got a lot of years behind them with a wealth of experience and a ton of wisdom. And I didn't want to waste the opportunity to ask Mary some pretty big questions about being in your nineties, about looking back You know, nearly a century of life. What an astonishing, astonishing thing. I feel very, very lucky I got to do this. Now obviously we all know Mary for the endless joy that she finds in cooking and baking, but her latest book is called My Gardening Life Gardening has been a huge part of her family's day to day life since she was a child. And talking to Mary, there's clearly a lot of crossover between gardening and cooking. There's a lot of inspiration that comes from helping her father with the vegetable patch and knowing how the food that she's cooking was grown is clearly important to her Right, let's do it. Here's the show Mary Berry. I am so happy to see you in real life It's so great to have. It's good to be here F. First of all, I must congratulate you for your BAFTA feellllowship, which you just picked up this weekend. What a moment Yes, you know, when I was told about it I thought when it goes to actors ress and I looked at the list of people who'd received it in the past and I thought a gardener. And I felt so honoud, in you? And Lucy is my assistant And she's been with me thirty six years and she said, it's so important. Yes. And she kept saying It's such an honour. I said it is such an honour. I can't really believe it. It's just amazing. It's so brilliant. and you had that gorgeous pink dress on walking the red carpet, you look so beautiful. But it is such a huge honour and such a moment. When you look back at your time on TV, your career on television is so loved by all generations, how do you feel looking back at itill? Well I feel It's an accolade, you know, and it's I suppose a thank you. I Yes, you know, the one thing that does cross your mind and you think wish your mother and father, mum and dad were here. I know they're looking down, but the first thing we would normally do is pick up the phone Mumy, do you know? And you know my husband was very pleased and the children, I think they were too. Oh, I'm sure they were. everyveryone was so proud, I'm sure. And what's even kind of more extraordinary, it wasn't like you grew up thinking, I want to be on the TV. This is the career for me. It was something that kind of Organically just happened. Well, um I enjoy sharing what I love, which is cooking It was my career because I'm in I didn't do Latin in math and be outside and love break and friends and to do with sport And u So I wouldn't have been able to be a doctor or anything. but I do like teaching and teaching is immensely rewarding. Yeah. And of course, eventually it was television Television is the biggest audience that you could get And if one makes it very clear and does it sort of step by step, and make it enjoyable. People copy you. and They are then proud and present it to their family and friends And they feel good about it. And you know, sometimes in a family you have Children who are very clever at school and win everything and there's sometimes children that haven't haven't had that and then suddenly they start to bake and I'm teaching them and They become so pleased. and sometimes in the mornings when I put the computer on, I will see a little boy maybe with a cake that's a little bit lopsided hand decorated by this child And in the background, parents very, very proud. The child may not have achieved great things academically, but enjoyed producing something Everyone's going to enjoy family and friends. That's why. I mean, I've always loved baking cakes for that exact reason that you've got something to show for their effort at the end that you can be proud of, and also something everyone else can enjoy and then give you praise for and say that was delicious. And again, with gardening It's something that You can enjoy. as long as you dress for it, you can do it All whers And it's rewarding. I mean, in cooking you can Make something for supper Buy the ingredients, follow a good recipe and have something in the evening. That's delicious. Now gardening takes a bit more time Yeah, a bit more patience It's a format. You know, you've got to set to seeds or get the plants and so on. They've all got to be looked after. It's something that takes more time. Yes. But of course you are out. and all weathers if you're You know, do you really need to go to the gym by the time you've Great exerciseower bed and so on or push the lawnmower or so on. That's a great way of exercising and in the fresh air you feel so good. You feel so good. I mean, you are now ninety one ninety one, ninety one And fit is a fiddle. so if anyone was going to push gardening on us for exercise, you can absolutely do that. Yes. And also it's the fact of clearing your head. Yeah. And you know I'll come back from seeing you. and then I'll very lightly shout at the dogs and say let's go out and I'll come P an old flower or See if what needs to be done, and you feel in a different world. And if it was pouring with rain, I would dress for it. stick out on umbrella, get out there. I love that. As I said, before we started the podcast today, I've not moved into my gardening areera yet, but I can see it on the horizon. I know it's going to happen. I absolutely understand the benefits of it I love going for a walk in the park and just being outside in nature and I know that If I've got lots of worries or thoughts in my head, that's a really good way of me just having that Carity, that headpace, it's so lovely The last time you came on this podcast was in twenty nineteen, unbelievably. I felt like it was about two years ago, but it was seven, which is mind blowing. Your arithmetic's very good. to quickly do the maths But I came to your house, but I think you've moved from that house since. It was the one that had the big pond in the back garden. No pond now. No that was a big garden took a lot of time And we moved childildren said, when well, my husband actually said to me when we were on holiday together And he said, if I put my clogs before you, Would you stay here in the house in Pan? And I said No, I certainly wouldn't And he said, Where would you like to go? And I supp I suppose we should be near the children possibly Henley. And u He said, Well, perhaps when we get home we should look. Meanwhile, I found Annabelle, our daughter. And said Tat says he's not going out feet first and in Pen, he would like to possibly move to somewhere like this Marlow or Henley Oh, she said that's near me and near Tom. That's or'll find something by the time we got home She had found that passast but it took ages to sortle out. It's lovevly to think that the young wanted to be near and they do pop in. Oh, that's so nice. And you've got another gorgeous back garden to be looking after. It's not as But it's sos manageable. But again, it was a learning process. Yeah, because we didn't want a lot of work U and yet we wanted, you know, wanted flowers to pick and I did raised beds Most raised beds sort of, you know, foot off the floor off the ground These are at sitting height made of brick. So in my dotage in the years that follow, I'll be sitting on the wall pulling up my carrots or wh and without any effort. That's so brilliant. I mean, there's some beautiful pictures of all of your gardeners actually in this book, My Gardening Life, which I loved reading because it's a real education for me for someone that hasn't started gardening yet. And I loved hearing A lot of the stories behind your gardens, but also what gardening has given you over the years. And also looking at how it evokes a lot of memories for you, you talk about primrose being a real evocative flower for you. Why is that But when we were young Growing up, it was wartime And there weren't such things as there were parks if you wanted to go to, but there weren't theme parks or plac that you could sports centres or outings we just stayed at home and had fun we had dens and we built fires We used to cook outside, we'd put tents. We had friends around. You didn't call it a sleepover. They came with a sleeping bag and went on the floor. you Nowadays children are much more entertained every day. We entertained ourselves. but we made things and we used to go in dad's workshop things and men things. time It was different. Yeah ye. But it's all memories and talking of primroses, there were sort of outings in the seasons. in spring, Mum would make a picnic ic picnic and take something called a primus, which was a little stove which needed a lot of attention to get it going. and you had to put it on a level bit of ground. A mum would have a kettle and make tea. And then we'd have our picnic prim roses and tie them up with wool into little bunches and give them to friends. I used to take them to my teachers at school because that would sweeten them up because I wouldn't have worked very hard I love it Thinking about that era of your life during the war, one of my big regrets is not asking my nan Sylvia Be think about your age now. She died many years ago But she had my mum as a teenager, so she was a young granny for me to have. And I loved being in her company. And I heard little bits from her childhood. She was evacuated to Wales in the war. She didn't have a great time It was really Yeah, it was really rough. The family that looked after her, well, I think it was one woman maybe that looked after her would beat her and she was quite traumatized from it And then she came back from the war. and I think it was not long after that. Her older sister died of TB, which was, of course kind of rife in that era. So I knew little tiny tit bitits, but I wish I'd sat with her and just quizzed her more about that era was like, what her memories were like and how it felt as a young person knowing that something so huge was going on around you. What are your memories from that time Well, I was not evacuated because we were in the country in Bath and I can remember that bath had a blitz for two days and I remember all our windows being knocked out. Whoa And I remember the blackout. And u My school was bombed I thought was about the best thing that could possibly happen But only the next week a hand mistress came to my parents and said when the windows had been put back in, could a couple of classes come? in our house. again, I thought, Whoopy, I'll fall out of bed straight into class. but of course my classes weren't in our house. They were about half a mile away, which we had to walk to, which was you know not very thoughtful of the headmistress And do you remember a sense of what was going on? you know as a child living through it was there fear? or you know what were your kind of feelings around it? I don't think there was fear. I knew there was anxiety with my parents, and I can remember the eight o'clock news every morning And my parents would sit at breakfast and we had to be quiet while they listened to what was happening O course the there was no television And so they would listen intently And it was very solemn. voices and just before the news came on A doctor came on for five minutes talking about health and things. It was just in the back of your mind, but we had to be quiet then. Yeah, no, I'm sure. And around this time you became as a family, pretty self sufficient in terms of growing your own vegetables. That was very much a part of how you would kind of get through it with the russations going on Well, Fn you're quite right. But my father really didn't want to garden But it was part of Dig for Britain. And so immediately our back garden was full of root vegetables, raspberries, strawberries. We like picking those. celery grew celery and I remember to keep the celery white He's direct of the celeries in newspaper and then it up with us like people do with potatoes now And then because the celery didn't get any light, it stayed white. Oh. And he grew sweet peas for Mum. I did a little bit of gardening because I was always in his wake And he helped me, but I'm sort of radishes and things like that And then would you cook together as a family? or was that very much your mum would be gathering the veage Mom all the cooking. but Dan we had one of the first washing machines Harnell, I can remember. And he also bought a canning machine can fruit. Wow. And he liked that sort of thing, but he didn't actually cook We just had a gas cooker and an oven and a big kitchen, huge table And but we always sat around the table for meals. And that was the time that you begin to talk. Yeah, I mean, that's still my favorite thing now is when my kids are back from school, I'm back from work, we can sit together. It's usually the only moment, especially with my son who's thirteen, that I can actually get anything out of him and talk about the day. Always on a full stomach. Yeah. Do you want anything from them or from any member of the family Yes. And when they're feeling, o, that was good, then you can get an answer that you want. Without a doubt. And what would your mum be cooking around that time from garden? Mum would be well, it was very repetitive each week, really. You wouldd have a roast on Sunday and dad would carve it, was you had a small portion because the next day it would be a cottage pie or some form of mint and the mint that was in the kitchen and it was a hand one and mum would put the meat through it It might be Mundy might be cold lamb and then it would be shepherd's pie. and then we would have fish because fish wasn't rationed. All right and Mum said if everybody gave up sugar in their tea, in those days, not many people had coffee if everybody had sugar in their tea, if you gave up sugar in your tea, there would be some left to make a cake every two weeks or have some puddings U and everybody did in the household give up Wow. I mean, there was no waste. Everything was used Oh, no waste and of course we had chickens and in the winter Mum would preserve the eggs in Isinglass in a great big and sort of Tub metal tub and put the eggs in and that seals the outside of them so the air doesn't get out them. And she would use those during the winter when the hens weren't laying. Wow. I mean, you had to be unbelievably resourceful. It was a time where every bit of every veg had to be used, every bit of meat, No way the veg peelings would be boiled up bran to feed the hens. Oh wow I mean, we're so far removed from that mostly in this country these days. There's so much waste, it makes me feel anxious. I can't bear it. And there was no dog food. You didn't buy dog food in tins or You know, dogs were fed on scraps. We all love dogs and they've got good scraps. I bet they did But you know it was a different world. Yeah, completely. And then not so long after the war or maybe it was just as the war was ending, you contracted polio as a child. When I was thirteen yes I just I knew I was ill. because I didn't feel very well. and I thought We had in the house we had fireplaces in the bedrooms A mine had never been lit. And mum and dad lit the fire in the bedroom was a huge treat, but I just thought I I just thought I'd you know, got flu or something And when Dr. Love, our family doctor, nice name. lovely name. Dr. Love came and he said I think Mary has got infantile paralysis and she must go to hospital at once. And that's what another name for polio Wow, And you were in hospital for quite some time. I was I was, but I was very well looked after it You were talking earlier on about TB and after being in the isolation hospital I went to B orrthopedic hospital and one side of the ward was open with glass because TB people had to have fresh air and you had your toothbrush put in a mug of water ready for the morning and I can remember The water brust stood in froze And you can imagine, it was quite cold. Oh my Godd. That's I've been cold ever since. Mry, that is the pit. especially when you're not feeling well. Well, no, I got better that. you know, but at that stage, I was feeling better and had lots of exercises and got back to walking head to hand and so thank goodness And so obviously gardening was kind of part of your family language, whether your parents wanted to or not. It was very much part of family life and how you were looking after yourselves. When did you start to garden more so for fun when it became something about aesthetics and flowers looking beautiful and making a garden really feel like something all of my childhood Mum always had a bunch of flowers on the kitchen table. And I can remember the very South laawn was the house and I can remember the individual flocks u Didalas. you know, I could remember even though I was then in my early teens I could remember the plant names the Latin names, but you know I was interested in plants and flowers. And I suppose when I got married we lived first in London in near Notty Hill Gate. Behind before your time there was a classic cinema, behind the classic cinema. And next door to a fish and chip restestaurant Chills our hasouse touched it and It was cheap And my father who was surveyor came up And he said Well, people aren't buying that house because it's next door to a fish and chip restaurant But he said He was there when they were frying in the evening and so on And the smells of the fish going about eight houses down the street. He said your house, you won't get any smell at all. Oh wow. so We bought it. And the garden was very small and in total shade I desperately was putting plants in and they mostly died. No. But then I had more success later on I mean, I love having fresh flowers in the house. Yesterday, my next door neighbor had picked up a package for me And she popped over and she'd picked these five gigantic peach colored roses from her garden and they smell like Nothing else. They're in my kitchen Nars now and this morning before I left I was giving them a big old sniff and they're just but the colour It's like the softest peach tone ever. It's such a treat having fresh flowers. It is and obviously because you are in the heart of London, they're already they're in flower. I my favourite rose is Chandos Beauty, which we have had in all our gardens And it's British grown harkness And it has wonderful foliage wonderful smell and it's sort of a sort of white with a bit of pink and it's good for picking and of course, repeat flowering. Repeat flowering in a rose is, I think important. So you get two lots And how do you guarantee that is that about pruning? No No, it's about the variety. Right. So when you buy your rose, it will say if it's repeatingpeing or whether it's not. Do you get two goes of it? Well what happens is it comes in Usually starting in June And then it'll have a flurry till the end of perhaps July Deadhead it, deadheading so important in gardening. cut it down a bit Feed it, water it, it'll come again. And you should get flowers from a good rose right up to the frost And are you out in the garden every day? Is that just part of your routine My routine is when I get up in the morning, is to go out with the dogs And so I am You know every time I walk in, it's the back door is open and you know I might pick up the post and sit in the garden open the post or whatever if you get any. But it's part of my life. You feel so much better. You do. Is that still something you would rely on if you're mentally trying to, you know mull something over or you've got worries, concerns, is that a go to for you to clear your head? Absolutely But don't you feel the same? A hundred percent one hundred percent. It's just not Ncessarily with a gardening, but just getting I have to get outdoors, I have to be outside. Yes It is so important. Yeah. and I'm very fussy where I buy my flowers, you know, If you go to a local nursery a good one that perhaps grows their own plants, you know that you're in a similar soil to what you've got Which is I think, a great help. Yes. I was reading all about soil in your book. That was all a new lingo to me. I didn't know anything about it Time Time willcome. Start with pots. Yes. I are lovely because if by any chance they die, you can replace them. Yeah exactly. They just bring a smile as people walk out and perhaps you're having a drink outside And even a window box is cheerful, isn't it? Well, I'm so lucky. in my garden, I've got a magnolia tree that's pretty substantial. It's been there for years, way longer, you know than I've lived there And then next to that I've got a wall of wisteria which is sadly already dropped, but it looked so pretty, B purple hanging wisteria. M most likely it'll flower again later in the season. Oh, I didn't know that. Usually yes, if you're lucky you get a bit of a second. That's so good. But It's got a smell too. It's beautiful. It's heavenly. I love it Of course down the line, you started using your garden and the vegetables you were cooking to then run agga classes at your house, which seems like a lovely marriage of your two deep passions of cooking and gardening. And you would have many people sign up to this course, come to your home, you would all cook together. What was that experience like for you? It was when we lost William our son I didn't really want to go to London to work again. I wanted to stay with my husband And I thought, what can I do from home? So I ran a cook I had an Aga for most of our married life And I thought, Well, I do know more about aggas than most people. and it's a different technique to cook with an agga. So we started these Aga classes and Lucy Young came and we did it together. I used to do the morning deonstrations she did the afternoon We had it for twelve years and I did every single session I didn't get anybody else in They'd come to see me cook and I would be there. I wouldn't actually remember their names. I used to put the sticker. Luse used to be by the door put a sticking label saying Jane Brown So when they eventually came through to coffee to me, I would say good morning, Jane. And she would think, Oh she's remembered by it was just she had a label It because I'm not very good at remembering names. No, I'm not. I'm very good with faces. I never forget a face I actually had one of your Aga cookbooks because when I was about twenty four, I bought this teeny, teeny little cottage came with an arger. and I've never even seen one. I was twenty four. I barely cooked But I loved baking. I've always loved baking. I used to bake with my nan So I had this Aga and I was like, I don't know what to do with this thing. becausecause obviously they're set at certain temperatures and I was clueless. So I got your Aga cookbook And I absolutely nailed baking in an agga from your b. It's different. It is different, but you can get some beautiful results So around this time you've got this nice community of people that are coming to your house. wasas that in some way healing with with the grief that you were feeling to have distraction kept me busy. kept you busy. kept me busy. and I had my husband and other children about me. so yeah, it it's time and I think The one thing we all told ourselves how lucky we were to have had William and what a wonderful life He'd given us. And you know, I mean, it's many years now It's thirty years since he died. I mean, every Christmas, we're still saying you know, having a drink to willill and our grandchildren all say he was a very good at sport And I know Hoby was saying when he was doing so well at rugby William would have been proud of me, wouldn't he? You know, it's really nice. and they know there are pictures all of him. around and even though the grandchildren didn't know him. they know all about him. Yeah, that's so lovely. But some people don't want to do that. They want to forget it and have a new life. but he is still part of our lives. There's no rule book when it comes to m. No rule lefted at all own work. My I now and friends Many of my friends at my age are losing the other half And I always talk about them or find something nice to say. And I think people like that.. I know I did. I loved it if people came up and said, o, Will was such a smashing chap. Wasn't he a good tennis player or whatever? And you know, I'm proud and I think if one there is a sadness in the family to find something nice to say about them or of something we remember about them. It helps people pass the time You say in the book that around this time, one of your friends, one of your neighbourors invited you to the Chelsea Flower showh. and you weren't right particularly keen at this point on leaving the house, being around other people, but you actually managed to push through and you went and you've got no regrets. I had no regrets and she asked me, Will died in January and she asked me In January, I've just got two tickets or whatever. and at all. Oh, thank you very much. Claire, thank you very much. And then of course, as it got nearer, I was feeling a bit more outward look thinking and I went and bought a new jacket And of course, it really started me off realizing that that we have to go on Yeah. And of course it's Chelsea is something that is such a good day out Do you still love going Oh yes, I'm there for a couple of days this year. So good. I've only been once but I loved it It's just a feast of colour and creativity. It's so beautiful. L lot of ideas that Yes can copy And when you see the height of certain plants, you remember that whichich are the ones to put at the front of the border and which are the ones to put at the back And that's what I've learned in my gardening life, you know T to begin with, I would you just go to the nursery, get a plant and not bother to read how tall it got And you know, things went't And also u because we had have quuite a big bed gardening bed I always buy three You know, one looks a bit lost. Yeah and a group always looks better in threes or fives or whatever. Depends what it is. I've doggered a page in your book here, Mary, because it says page one hundred and fourteen I'm addicted to fans. So sweet. Hh . What is it about ferns that you love? I mean, there are loads of ferns. peoplee don't realize this. There's so many varieties. What do you love about ferns? I really love ferns because they like shade. Yes. They like shade, they like damp. So if you've got a wet part of the gard They don't need too much looking after. I cram them in that. And we do water them. Yes. I remember going to Highgrove years ago the king, he was Prince Charles's garden And they had a lot of ferns there and it was very damp around them They really do, to start with, the first few years, they need to be damp Once they're fully rooted They can manage without so much water. but I know that the more I water mine because they're only two or three years old the better they are. Yeah, I relate. I drink a lot of water and I'm low maintenance. I I do not drink a lot of water. I know I remember this about you. When we did that TV show together, we made a Rouard We had, I think I was grabbing a glass of water and I think you told me just you don't drink it Yeah my mother was one hundred and five, which is mad. And she water lunch and water was supper And nothing else. and I don't drink a lot of water. Mind you, I don't race about an awful lot. I'm at you're at a fast pace and running and things like that. But I don't drink an awful lot, but you must do what your doctor says and what you're advised, donon't listen to me. But you can listen to me about gardening Not about how much water. I mean my parents don't ever drink it. They drink about twenty cups of tea a day, but no water. They can't stand it. They don't like the the nothing tastes. Well, it's liquid, isn't it? It's you just got to chug it down and get on with it let's talk about your your mum being one hundred and five is something we can't breeze over because that is A substantial number we're talking here. You're ninety one, your mum was one hundred and five. You've obviously got something and your dad lived into his, wasas it late eighties? Yes, early eighties, actually eighties I think Jans are very important. Yes. And if I mean, if you've got your health, which thank God have do the things that I should do. and I eat sensibly I'm very fortunate, but in the back of it, it's your jeans. Do you think there's something to be said for having a passion. I often think when like look at David Atttenborough, who's just turned a hundred. I feel like his passion is something that gets him out of bed every day. It's just been this constant throughout his life. I think there's something to be said for having great passions. I mean, you've got many Having Having passion, yes, definitely. Or having a purpose or And I do think it's important to contribute in this life. You know if you live in a village or a street to know your neighbours to be aware, you know, if this one two doors down and she's rather old Can you put the bins out for them? It's contributing. I say that because yesterday, our help was away and we had very heavy bins. And our builder was passing and he said, I see the bins are out. C I put yours out? You know, It's contributing That's so wonderful. Did you quiz your mum much about her longevity and Really, but we I was quite close to my mum and she did look after an awful lot of ull she She started the friendriends of the RUH Hospital in Bath because she suddenly realized, this was a long time ago, that the beds had no curtains aroundound. So whenever anything was in a ward, everybody could see what was going on. so she knew some of the doctors and she' got hold of all the surgeons and doctors wes and said, do you realize that the service and the hospital is wonderful, but could we not up together and raise money? the little extra things in the hospital. Youre right. And she did and it's still going now. How wonderful? That's so amazing. the coffee shop she started. No way. So you know, it's contributing doing things, helping. a busy mind is a happy person I like to think that I have to always have project or something that I'm a painting I'm working on, a book I'm writing or I can't I'm not very good at being idle. You don't need to worry. You've got such a busy life. happy life. A happy life. It's so important And also you've been married for a very long time. sixty Y years this year. And you've got some beautiful wedding pictures in your bir.? Oh there's a gorgeous picture of you getting married,n't you? I think it's quite early on. I remember the flowers. Oh, it's just a gorgeous black and white photo. What do you think? I mean, like divorce rates are obviously through the roof in this day and age. What do you think eight, So we go. there's the picture. Oh yes. was an the cake I did make the cake and We didn't get round to icing it very much and we just put went in the garden on the morning. picked a few bits and bobs and put it all aroundound I had the vars on top. What was it just wasas it a Vicky sponge? No, no, no, in those days you always had fruit Fruit cake, Yes cake. Of course. We've been married sixty years and I think astonishing We We've never had a crossword. I can't bear shouting. No. And you know, we're both the same and Cen the garden comes in And even if I hadn't a garden, I would walk out of the front door, you know, when you think I can't believe that he's done that all How stupid, you know, I will walk into the garden, yes and walk aroundound and think now Am I going to say something? I think we'll just let it pass It's a good idea. Remove yourself from the scene. Exactly. Have some head space, bit of distance, work out whether it's worth saying the thing or not. And also I think too say sorry. Yeah I went to I've been to a girlfriend has three sons. And at each of the weddings of these sons Yeah, you know, the vicer, this was the lady vicer and you can hear what they're saying. at the altar. and u To each of these boys, she said Remember to say sorry or to both of them because it's rather difficult because you always think you're perfect. And it does help to say sorry. Oh my gosh, I completely agree. The one thing, you know As parents, it's always hard raising kids. you're going to mess up constantly, you're going to have good days and bad days. But the one thing I'll always do is say, sorry, if I've You know, had to go at one of them or I've been a bit grumpy, I'll always say, I'm sorry, Mum's tired today. and now in return, they're so quick to do the same. If one of them's you know my son even last night said, Ohh, sorry, I've been grumpy after school. And I was like, okay, it's all good. It's a really good practice to have, I think. A reallyally good practice So at the age of ninety one, when you look back, over the years, what are the important things that really stand out to you? The moments in your life where you've really learned valuable lessons or just moments that feel extremely important. I think one of the most important things in life is to be kind It takes a bit of thinking about and to be kind, to be helpful Tolerant And I'm not always right H None of us are None the bar. And do you have any regrets Um Rather like you did, I wish I'd talked more to my My father, who was quite brisk I should have talked and spent more time with him. but of course when you I came to London to work And I would go down at weekends and see friends. and I should have spent more time with them. Yeah. I think most of us feel like that about a grandparent, a parent, you know, you think, Oh, I wish I'd ask for more stories. That's what I'm craving from my Nan, certainly, like all of those brilliant life stories because of course They had a whole life before they became parents, before they became grandparents. and it's so interesting Many of our listeners, Mary, will be around my age, in their kind of forties, younger and older, but fair few of them will be around mid forties. If you could say anything to Mary in her mid forties, what advice would you give her? U I think don't make rash decisions. You know, if something comes you know comes through a new job, a new thing, a new venture, or whatever Sleep on it. do something about it the next morning Whenever I've sort of thought, o, that'd be funine, I'll do it, you know. And I ring back and I think I should have waited. I should have thought and just You know, make sure that you're going to make the right decision. Yeah. less haste. less haste and think about it One of the important relationships in your life has been someone you mentioned a couple of times, lovely Lucy, who I know, who you've worked with for how did you say thirty two six years An incredible partnership and a friendship that's grown out of a love of cooking. What does that relationship mean to you It means the world really. She has become veryer wise and u She's the one, she won't let me pick up the phone because you know I'll have someone will ask me to do something up in Banchester or something. and I'll say, Oh that oh yes, off course I'll try at it. And Lucy says She picks up the phone And if we've got a connection or whatever, and we'll try and fit these things in She really advises me what I'm to do. She's got an enormous smile, great knowledge. And she's terribly good with people. Yeah, she's amazing. And we normally do things together. Yeah, I love Yes, she comes everywhere where I go and make sure I'm on time And if it's something very smart, you said, you have to have makeup and I' always say, Ohh well, no, no, it doesn't matter. Oh yes, it does matter She's so brilliant. It's such a good partnership. Yes. It's important to have people like that in our life. We laugh a lot and we have a lot of fun. Yeah, it's wonderful So we're also putting together a collection of songs that will make people feel really good. So every guest that comes on, I get them to choose a song or a piece of music that they find uplifting, makes them feel really jolly. Which song would you pick? I owe something from Abbber Yeah We haven't got any A on our playlist so far. That's great. I know. Well I don't mind which one? Any other. I love sailing. Okay No, that's not Aber, is it No, sailing is No. Is that Rod Stewart? Yes, Stewart. But I mean, I like Rod Stewart and I like sailing Rod Stewart and I like most of the Aber songs. Okay, we'll put an Aber song on there. A good upbeat one. Yeah. And lastly, Mary Berry, where is your happy place My happy place is with my family At home Preferably on a lovely spring day outside having a sort of Easy lunch Lots of conversation and fun Oh that sounds like the perfect day. Well look thank you so much for being here today. I urge anyone who either loves gardening or like me sees it on the horizon to read this book because not only is it packed with great stories, but it's got a lot of very useful tips and tricks and hacks for gardening if you're a complete beginner or someone like you that is very used to gardening. So go get it, Mary Berry, my gardening life. Thank you so much for being with me today. I've loved it, Vern. Oh, I loved that chat. What a treat. I mean If you want, you can go back and listen to chat number one, which was lovely too. but this felt really in depth and just so wonderful, magical. I would say if you've got a granny alive, a granddad alive or someone in your life who's in their eighth or ninth century, quiz them, quiz them about life, get all the wisdom, get all the tips. this is, you know, we need to be learning about L and longevity from people who have lived long lives. I loved that conversation Marysburg, My Gardening Kife is out now Right, have you read our Happy Place Book Club Read for May? It was yestery year. I mean a lot of people have read this book, this book has been a global hit. And in a few days time, author Carol Clireg will be here to talk about Tradwife influencers, the manosphere and finally having a novel published after many years of writing. It's a really lovely conversation. I think you're going to like it, especially your bookworms. In the meantime, a massive thanks again to Mary and to you lot, you are bloody wonderful