Final Thoughts on Histamine Management

Welcome to Hello Hormones with me, Dr. Carerie Jones, a podcast where we explore how to make friends with your hormones so that you can thrive in your thirties, forties, and beyond. Whether you're premenopausal, perenopausal, fully postmenopausal, or honestly just a woman dealing with the chaos of hormone imbalances, you are in the right place. Be handling your hormones doesn't have to feel like hurting cats. So let's decode what's really going on. Ditch that confusion and help you feel like yourself again. You bring the symptoms. I'll bring the science with a bit of SS and get you solutions together Welcome to Hello Hormones, where we make friends with our hormones so we can survive and thrive thiries, forties, fifties, and beyond. I'm Dr. Carrie Jones, functional medicine doctor, hormone nerd, and longtime women's health advocate Well today's episode, I'm super excited about because It's personal. I am a high histamine person. I mean, certain foods, wine, spring allergies can really, really, really get me. And I have been taking the DAO enzyme or diamine oxidase enzyme for the last couple of years on my own after researching this which is the enzyme that degrades histamine in your gut So I decided to bring on this scientist and biotech investor who actually discovered and patented this Hmet Schultz to ask him all about it. And I even learned a ton haaving used the product myself and doing my own research We talked about histamine in your GI track and how that can show up as common GI symptoms, of course, like bloating or even IBS, but also how it can contribute to full body symptoms. migraines Anxiety hot flashes, insomnia, itchy skin, runny nose. Yeah, I know. it really sounds like it overlaps with perimenopausal symptoms. We talked about your estrogen and progesterone volatility and how it impacts DAO negatively and also negatively impacts your mass cells, which are the cells that release histamine I asked about the foods high in histamine. I even asked about medications. We talked about the birth control pill. We talked about NSDs over the counter pain medications. We talked about antidepressants. Unfortunately, there's a lot of things that can get in the way of, decrease, inhibit DAO enzyme which means you can have more histamine in your GI track contributing to your overall histamine load in your body We also discovered what separates a DAO supplement that works from one that doesn't because You know, he's the guy that built the science behind it, and that's key. And unfortunately, there are imposters on the market and I have tried them over the years to see the difference. And they I always come back to this one that we're going to talk about So if you've ever felt like your body has suddenly turned on you in your forties, which yes, we're thinking perimenopause, but also you're like, h, I'm also a histamine person or I'm feeling like it's more histamine. or I feel better when I take an antihistamine, but I feel like there's more to the story. Wine that you used to drink isn't working for you anymore. Fermented foods, even like Kombucha or sauerkraut isn't working for you anymore. The cheeses you can't really have like you used to, the foods that you love. and no one's been able to explain why other than like, well, that's what happens in perimenopause Yeah, that was what happens when you get older, then this conversation is going to give you a lot of answers that you didn't even know were missing. 'cause guess what? Not only all the things I mentioned can slow down or decrease DIO production, but also it declines with age So Let's get really into it because Helmet has spent over twenty five years writing clinical research on histamine intolerance, which means he talks about what works and what doesn't. It's not his opinion. It's twenty five years of data published data. And he even gave you the code, Dr. Jones too use it omnidM. com for twenty five percent off Let's dive in. Well, Helmet, welcome to the Hello Hormones podcast. I am so excited to have you here today because first of all Histamine is all over social media right now, As you know, as women are realizing that histamine is very connected to their hormonal symptoms And you are the king of addressing histamine in the GI track. So we're going to talk about that today. So I want to welcome you. Thank you very much. I'm flat, Please don't call me a king you know been in Austria. for a long time. So there's a little bit of a history behind that. A little bit of a history. really giv me the chance to just enlighten a little bit about the specific ide of theO of his mentorials and everything that is around it As you said, have come up a lot of in has come up a lot of information recently about the connection between the Honal situation of women and theO. So whatever you have there, I hope I can let you Well, and that's where actually really I want to start because what we're seeing on social media is women are taking what we call an H one and H two blocker. So they're taking The over the counter like allegra or Claritin, then they're adding in Pepsid, for example, and they're saying, my PMS got better, my PMDD got better, my perimenopause got better I had a girlfriend about a month ago who was not sleeping. She's perimenopausal and she was also having a number of allergic symptoms and I said, Hey, just try it. just take a Clareton before bed see what happened. She texted me the next day. She said, Carrie I slept Through the whole night, I felt amazing. I didn't realize his stimine was so connected So for you though This is where I want to connect the pieces because you and I are going to talk about DAO, diamine oxidase. The enzyme in the GI track that breaks down. histamine there. So let's let's cover the basics because I think people are aware of Claritin allergy season, right? I understand the medications, but this is something completely different. So teach us about DAO Okay Let's jump right into a video in a short. standing for diamine oxidates, which is an enzyme that is being produced in your small inteta And it's used there to protect the body from an overflow of crystine that comes in from food or from a metal production ined M intera to answer your question about the new idea, the new approach of using antiens again symptoms that could be put intolerance system Thes Let me just distinguish between two things H one H two blockers so the classid entestans that to get them as OTC in US are working inside the body, meaning They are reducing, they are blocking the receptors of hisine inside the body from talcking on to hisine That means it already in the system or it is produced in the system as it is in a classid IGE reaction as norm from LG In this collection, theO does not have doesn't play any role video is A local enzyme produced in the gut and it's only working there. You're not metabolizing theO That is also one of the very, very important things that you should take theal before the meals. to have the enzm in place if any food containing histamine or if the mast cells are producing more hamine to have it in placeaced there prevent additional dinin getting into the bus. Answering your question For sure and Histelen are a very good solution for Histelin that is already in the system But and this is now maybe the danger, I wouldn't call it danger, but this is the thing you should think about Iimate. when confuse H two blockers like epsid or Famatidine Proton pump inhibitors or PPIs And that's a very important thing. Prinoag, Omon, those are the products that are real PPIs. So The long term use of PPIs likeul dramatically lower stom acid which impairs the absorption of vital bone density neutrient v calcium, magnesium A major risk factor for menop Cosal women already facing accelerated bone loss. It's also suppressing the volume system. Eer is the Ns Mask, as I've said before syymptoms without clearing the excess system in bi does not do anything with the system. The only thing that happens, you have a receptor here. You can picture it really like this ing comes here, docks on and then causes the emerged reactor. The only thing I'm antiist does it gots a chemical layer Dceptor that is the move from docking on. Thein is still there Du Jinjin And that's the good thing about VO in comparison Theyo really degrade system in the small intestine to zero. There is nothing left after that's maybe the biggest is the biggest advantage of these And I think that's a huge Aha moment. You know, when you said degrades as opposed to blocking the receptor because I think a lot of people assume when they take their medication, whatever form they're taking that they're like this must be getting rid of my histamine, getting rid of as opposed to just blocking at the receptor, whereas DAO is actually literally getting rid of it, degrading it. How much if you had to guess How much comes in orally? Like how much comes in through can is it like for example, foods, right? There are a lot of foods that are high in histamine Alcohol, wine triggers a lot of people with histamine, fermented foods. How much do you think in the average person oral versus like pollen or mold or something like that It' very hard to compare because as I said, I mean the hist and load that is being produced through analgy is I mean we talked about milligrams. It really veryery, very small amount. In comparison to fruood, those amounts can be much higher. That's the reason why DO is in the small L pesta Let me give you a little story. When we originally developed weO which OmnideM actually uses as theO produced from pig kidneys source of our glO is pig kidney. We also tested kidneys of hyena because hyenas nourish themselves from Rotten food. So they have amine levels in their stomach and the small intestions that are incredibly huge Those would be best source for D Oven Oh The Vienese Sou is quite big. We couldn't get enough halena to really make a product up Abide from that This is really one of the main things of the you have to have deal in the small intest tes That's also the problem with all those via blocking substances Like a lot of Chrmousicals are out there that are blocking You have alcohol that is a blocking substance of gal. So that means your body actually produces You not DO normally, but then you take some outside factor And that comes into the body and completely rocks your regional Do production. So if you don't supplement with that, You will always have the classic HIT symptoms. When it we were talking like intestinal You know, because a lot of women will think, oh gosh, when it comes to Histamine, you must mean, you must mean rashes. You must mean itchy nose. You must mean runny nose or sneezy, itchy eyes. But when it comes to intestinal, what symptoms, what are the histamine intolerance symptoms that we tend to think of? What do people experience That would really need a bigger answer if I'm allowed if I'm allowed to. Yes, please. Yeah. We really I sugg just that we have those classicing problems that used the mean toernt problems like each thing of one and know are a lot of histamine related symptoms like neurological symptoms, migraine Stving headaches triggered by my sup froodit of home ownership brainfog, the feeling and w up tred excited searches that seem to come out of nowhere, nighttime awaking, just as you quoted today We must never forget. histamine is a neurotransmitter in the brain. excess system you can affect Exactly that, alertness know ain pathways pathways and all those connect But we also talk about cardiovascular symptoms etection Wh' been hard of the meat feeling shaky or Analine like surgic, right happiness Some women end up seeing a cardiologist before anyone considers histomine or masal involvement Yeah That's really working because those And that's actually one of the biggest problems of the history problem I called it in general thoseose symptoms vary from gastrointestinal over hormonop symptoms. I mean, the hormonal symptoms classic worse PMS, during F mentaluse Kney gras, increaseed breath tendnderness. flashlike episodes that don't fit the typical menopausal pattern That all comes from this dramatic swing during the etrogen seircuit P chain is one of the main influenting substances in the production and in inlent of matter As soon as we have those appcription purchased, Matt tells release a lot of this toin in the system and therefore We even have all those of re actually And this is really something I have to say and I really want to bring it up here. It's a very important play game As that before. you have a large variety of sympts coming from En They are not specific to hisistoming alone I don't want to bring a picture that everything we talked about right now that I was just putting is only from thisistance to months Anxcited disorders, deated dises, migraine disorders. Paramanopis itself, I mean, anemia, cardiarhythm problems, all those H produed similar complaints which are not h manulated at all onene possible explanation amongst several others. So my recommendation and those those things is definitely that you have bed out entor there If you checked whether DO as a supplement was easing those symptoms they are still there, you definitely have to go and see the expert doctors in those in those cases I think this is really important because all the symptoms that you just listed a lot of women are struggling with right now. I mean, even some of the things you listed, I was like, hi But and I know I'm a histaminergic person. I I'm a very You know, a lot of allergies, a lot of food allergies. Yeah I take DAO and have for years because I was just born thanks to my dad That's one thing I inherited from all the allergy stuff And I think a lot of women now going through perimenopause, you mention estrogen surges, and I want to go back to that because We've seen on social media a lot of the feedback of I wouldn't have describeed myself as an allergic person Now I go through perimenopause and I'm sensitive to food. I'm sensitive to alcohol. I'm sensitive to allergies, you know, and I never had it before or Or it's women like me who have always been allergic, manage to control it pretty well. And then they hit perimenopause and the swings of estrogen low progesterone And they're like My allergies are so much worse. My histamine symptoms, my food. triggers are so much worse. How do estrogen and progesterone? let's go back to that. How do they play a role Not only in m cells, EAO That's a very important point here. During paranel calls, pgestion levels drocked sharply sharply while estrogen Bikes You' re This etrogent dominant can lead to a state of transcient hist andment causing symptoms that mimic amplifine mental causeing stresss During that very m' oulation becomes inconsistent Population is impaired, b gat lone produces fall Therefore, the progesterone appears to That we ask the Maps I would used the HPN release supports the videoO activity. is some of the estrogen driven history in effect Therefore Not enough deal at all is produced Therefore the supplementation is indicated It's really those are the latest timings. it was really interesting to see the studies that I have been made in this area that there is a direct correlation between those two facts Does DAO production in general decline with age Or do we all haven't? We just screw it up Absolutely, absolutely. I mean, you can you can say that about almost all the enzymes that are produced. Well that's I mean, I just turned sixty. so I can tell you, I can tell got the same problem You know, this is all the reason why, for example, lactose intolerance comes up with it. Why? It's a very simple explanation Why in the buning producing letin Fally because at baby We get a lot of milk. so we have to digest leactop After one and maybe two years that milk intake Normally clients are metically So Over the years, the body says, hey, why should I use any moreore of this ensyme I don't need it in Nowadays, we have the problem that we O the product all of our life. B by the end or to we come to the end We get we run into these problems of having not enough enta and the same counts for the So We definitely see a dramatic increase of fif minilitor in persons after the forort year of birthdayays and blank this and then increases up to sixty se really d I mean, I understand. I get it, right? Like the whole like aging and Even perimenopause I get it, but sometimes I'm like, I wish we could have designed this better. wish I wish. you know, I wish some like our phone can we have just can we reboot? Can we get an upgrade? Can we, you know, my computer updated last night and took an hour and I thought, man that'd be really great if I could just somewhere and get an update, right? I love I love can that can read exact I mean come back Let me come back because maybe I was f before when we ask your volatity environmental. because cle' going to want to press you N you Fl to ends Aial volatity in impairim mentopause can affect neo activity The relationship is probably not purely direct What does that mean? But there were interacting mechanisms that tpp between traadial wind and the symptoms people often attribute to No DA I would like to e a simplified model Perimenopause often looks like this. of becomes highly ed as we said, surges, crashes, comes up and down, up and down up and down Potesture generate declines earlier and it becomes less reliably produced Therefore that mter become more reactive to hormonal situation Halotection The histamine rase increases at the same time The histoming breakthp. may become less efficient because the DO activity is reduced And slash or overwhelming Because if you reach certain levels of the natural deO cannot block it down, cannot bu chestident. Therefore, again Supplementation is the point Well, I think it's good too that you said that DAO can be helpful, not for food, which we'll get to in a second, but also the mass cells that already exist in the intestines. because sometimes what I see In education, conferences, social media is that people relate DAO On two food hist and forget that mast cells exist in the intestine as well Absolutely right. I mean, this is this is ex exactly the point As we said Do is locally in the gard. It's being produced there primarily for his coming into the barden from f. again. We must not forget this combination between SWVO and met metal production So The increase of metal activation, the increased h, the increased im receptors signal Sally sported increase the hist of incentives. And therefore, we have this very strong correlation between those hormonal swings that Ver mentical and the activity Sash list of main production forformester. And if you put those three together, I would like to bring it up in analogy Beal is the drain the meaning is the water of your searches may both perually narrow the brain And open the faucet wider at the same time Eactly the picture that happens in your body. On the one side This thing is getting small and small. O the other side, the pipe is getting bigger and the fsil dissopvement completely. that brings up exactly the result ten spikes may trigger the histamine release, histamine can stimulate pstygen production. Potest germ is of insufficient to powerff for the system at the same time And therefore, we have symptoms that wax and win seemingly without any clear pattern And that's what's disturbing for many women because they don't have a clear path They can't say, hey, every day at two o'clock in the afternoon, I feel like this no, it's not like It's just the other way around. Some of those symptoms come after be fruood, someome of them come in the middle of the night, someome of them come in the morning. It's really, really difficult to say I appreciate too that you talk about the estrogen surges because I think sometimes when women herear anything around estrogen with histamine, then they think, well, I better not do estrogen. You know, like I'm not a candidate for estrogen then because I have high histamine And I always want to clarify like, oh, estrogen surges. where it goes really high You have higher highs and lower lows. So these high surge is different, usually different than the dosage used for hormone therapy or menopause hormone therapy. Now. You can have two things that be true at the same time. I was consulting with a woman recently who was on a Lotos. regular estrdile patch. then But she still got her periods sometimes. So when she would was going to get her period, she'd get these huge estrodile swings. She would have horrible historyine symptoms. Her breasts would get really tender. She'd get a migraine. And then her period would start. And so she said, am I not a candidate for the patch? I said, No, you're a candidate for estrogen But you are When you get these swings, we can't control and we don't know when they're coming. And so then it's just estrogen on estrogen. the rest of the time when you're skipping your period, the three, four or five months you went with no period, your estrogen was actually quite low and not really swinging at all. And I think that's One frustrating for women to hear, because they're like, can't you just control the estrogen? I'm like, trust me, I would if I could. I can't But know that you will get these surges Eventually with time, they will get fewer and farther between in between, you know, they stay lower versus going higher, but is a period of time where they do surge up and you may notice your in these all the symptoms you talk about And even if're you know you're a histamine person like myself, It just all compounds on each other Absolutely right. I mean that's exactly the point. It's the combination of all those things. People only think one way normally. As you said, they think about food and croca, don't think about all the other things, but it's the combination of. because As I said before, if you reuse your own DO production at the same time, when you Exaggerate our wom imp products Master filter is That exactly that brings everything into Tvela I'm here O all very often we are confronted with the question I understood DO lived in God. It's here to protect me from hist and control, with in some of the worst systems and symptoms like anxiety, insomna, brainfall. neurotical po VO actually the right tool For those syents or is there something el go I mean, This is It'actically a topic that resonates with so many women navigating the judicial environal you get at many movement it's really case When you're bealing with those jols of anxiety night spent daring at theiling brainfall something that could very often. So think that you can't remember when you walked into a room easasy to feel like you're losing your mind Let me say something here very first thing You're not great You're notfraid at all. It's a very simple honal reaction of your body that you have to get used to. I mean, it sounds c but that's a very important thing because people you run into very negative feelilings, they get depressions and they feel like they're crazy Let me bring something up we are when we origin It started with the VO and histin toolerance in the beginning of the two thousands We confronted the doctors with the idea that there is something besides classic Egy. There is something like a putooding top. ind The food intolerance symptoms We we're called like Crazy allergy Because the doctors could not find any IGE reaction in those patients. Patient came in and said, listen, if I eat some tomatoes, if eat some sourad, if I have some reang wine, I get all those cillings and it's greatraz. because there was no real way of You find it of that he you want little book We check to the IG is okay, ye yeah you have some problems guys da. And that's a little bit the same here now. We see the same reaction not all, but some of the doctors that are talked like here, hey, we check you, everything is okay Cal down, relax, take the holiday and everything is fine These experients are often the physiological result of a complex internal Let's call it gang between your activating hormones and your body's canstry The connection here is rtam and his Those As region level, they don't just d They fluctuate vildly. That's the biggest problem. Sometimes you got it high, sometes you got it low and that can happen even within one day This air comes in has a var relationship with it They know the mat ses and the gard theans is noise and m have can say When the eetrogen is high, project doone is low Theis pocket can never exactly So questestion is Do the right to bra Jo answer there? I was I tell women try it Yeah I mean, besides the hormones, you know, there's a lot of support, but as part of the treatment plan, the part of the entire picture, if you will Like I said to my friend, you know, I said, it's not gonna to hurt you, it's worth a try And if you could get a positive outcome Right. you can We know at the end was Either you have it. then and you take the DO. It helps you. I'm great. If it does not help you, the problem comes something completely different and you have to get a check That's the n thing it. This is also one of the things how we actually propagate And he's beenining Tin's test Because the easiest way to do it in buy a small package that's not really an effort Tri as it is prescribed You did Check it out, Isn' it helping? Do I feel better? If yes, I can say ye, there is something with my isaming road. there is something with my DO activity in the system And I have a very simple solution. There are no side effects because there cannot be any side effects. F of all, the DO is not being absorbed in the body Th in was small impact time DO has only one single activity. It can only reduce thisit There is no implement, you flush it out on your everyday toilet sleep. so that's not a problem at all That's the nice thing about the y That's the best thing about DAO because I know Of course, as women are in perimenopause, they often feel a lot more sensitive, right? So suddenly supplements hormones, foods, they're like, Ohh I'm reacting to everything now and to know D first of all, you have DAO in your body Second of all, it has one job. I love that. It's a one trick pony Does this degrade histamine And then out it goes. you don't absorb it Okay, stopping here for a second because today's sponsor, Omni DM, is absolutely filling a gap that I have been watching women fall through for years And women navigating perimenopause and menopause deserve so much better as their hormones shift and their histamine symptoms worsen Because nobody warns you that perimenopause can make your body turn on foods that it used to love One day, a wine and cheese plate are fine, and the next day it's flushing, headaches, anxiety, and you're wondering what's wrong with you Well, spoiler alert, it's your body's ability to process histamine with hormone changes. So here's what's actually happening You have a little enzyme. It's called DAO or diamine oxidase And this breaks down histamine primarily from foods Sadly, like everything else, DAO does decline with age. But when estrogen shifts high, as it can do through the wild rriot of perimenopause This can suppress DAO. And at the same time, an increase in histamine It can affect your body's hormonal balance. It's a total loop. It's a cycle And when you're stuck in it, you feel it everywhere. becausecause histamine symptoms can include more than allergies or congestion. It might show up as headaches sensitive ity skin Bloating Flushing, diarrhea, heart, palpitations, anxiety, feeling on edge, brain fog, irritability, and more. I know these sound like classic perimenopausal symptoms,. These can be histamine things as well And that's exactly where they have a product called Menopause Complete from Omni DM, and it can help. It honestly might be the missing piece nobody told you to look for. built specifically for this chapter of women with DAO to support histamine metabolism cohosh to support mood, potentially hot flashes It has flax seed liignnance for hormonal balance and cyiccholine to support that mental clarity and memory that perimenopause has a way of taking from you 'causeuse wake up one day and are like, what's with my bra And for DAO alone, like I said, I love the histamine digest thirty thousand HDU Make sure to take it before you eat or drink. It's one of the most underdiagnosed connections in women's health right now, and OmniDM is one of the few companies with the research to back it and actually doing something about it So to give your body some histamine support, it's been missing, head to omidM. com slash on slash dor. Jones, and you can see their entire full range of products. You can also use code Dctor Jones at OmnDM for twenty five percent off. That's doror Jones for twenty five percent off at omniiM dot com d two decades of clinical research built around needs that women's health has ignored We're not pieced together for far too long I do want to talk about the foods because there is a lot of misunderstanding around Foods high in histamine. the classic foods high in histamine, but then of course, they just foods with the food processing, especially in the United States and mold and grains and like things that could create histamine haminergic symptoms. So I really want to get into like what are classically the foods high in histamine? And then why might somebody say, well you can usually eat this food, but sometimes I can't. what might that be? Classic things are fermented food. fermented anything that is fermented can be high on this tin because that's a very and I always want to thress that point a very natural substance of fermenting So It doesn't mean that the most common one which is sa We must never forget something like Kombuca. I mean, Kombuca is exactly one of those things that is it's a fermented product whereather it come from The histine in there is very important because if what we did in the laboratory, we try to eliminate the system chemically out of those products And if you do that tastes like nothing because camin in that taste is Labver care. And as soon as you take out the hist mean, those products taste like nothing Very good examples also which is not fermented, spinmach or avocata. Avocado. Avocado is that. I mean, if I just look at with my wife, she has an avocado every day in the morning because it so healthy and got all those nice links on it Those nutrium dense superphots are naturally high in his hum and can quickly overload hisy bucket Again, nothing negative And I always I sted this point over and over again Whether you talk about red wine, whether you talk about champagne, whether you talk about fermented products Cumua, spinach, avocado All those products are healthy ride them up And Y all The hist that comes with these books is absolutely natural. It is nothing negative or does not come from industrial influences or anything. It's in there It's in there because it should taste as it tastes So if you take it out, it tastes like U, cardwoke paper. taste like it out don. taste like nothing The problem is not those I call them natural histamine loads that come from those school Problem starts when you're not producing enough EAO in a small investa Yeah If you had some really blocking substances before, Light Alcohol, which is the main blking substance All pharmaceuticals I mean, there are a lot of pharmaceuticals that are absolute DO blocking substances. And did you have that? then the histine can go free into your body and then cause it all come. Going to the pharmaceuticals, give me a couple ideas of families of pharmaceuticals, so just people realize which like a little bit of what medications A classic example is cup syrup Cusle blocks Definitely deal. and it's so funny because if you think about it You had you I'm quite sure that everybody had the situation where you had a c you took them bck and sealed then you went out for a nice dinner because that's why you took this cupbo in syup and suddenly you start cutting again So this is exactly one of those one of those let's call it inect where you originally have a very good effect on your original problem, which is in that case But part of this ser blockout video your activity You get some food in the body and mean comes into your body and then you start cutting up bit again because you ch the same reaction again afterward That's one of those really, really clastic C it Yeahah examamples There are several other products that Rom and barks, peace for give me. Histamine sometimes it's hard you get all these ideas in your wr then The music H stomach acid lurs. So if you take something like All those, I don't know how they are called in U.S U where where you use stomach acid Yes so We have like Tom like protom pump inhibitors ex things like that. Yeah exactly that that's one of those things. we have Anesides, antideibpresscants antibiotics, pressure medication Those are the really classic ones. The NSs are really interesting. I didn't realize that the N saids the over the counter because if you're having Let's say it's allergy season here. in the United States the spring in the Northern heemisphere. becoming nice weather. A lot of people, I know are gardening, they're out in the yard, they're mowing the grass And then they're reacting and they feel terrible and they may take an antihistamine. But also they're getting a headache Ay because he's been working in the yard all day and then they go take incense, right? And then it just makes the histamine worse. And I just learned that. I did not realize that Exactly. that'ss again, this is one of those counter reactes where where you treat the symptom which comes from another source And at the same time, we open up the problem for DO and list Okay. Oh my goodness, I know what people's minds are probably spinning now of like, wow, this makes a lot of sense. I'm connecting a lot of the dots. How did you figure out DAO in the first place What even led you to figuring it out The very original idea was to get a historying on twist tested which we succeeded in Europe. The problem is we can't and that's very, very sad. We can't bring it to US because very old radioactive test And I don't have to pray about radioactivity and exporting it to the US. We don't really like that fun enough So that has been used many, many years in Europe to diagnose it in intolerance when we finally found out what the problem is, meaning We found out that veryy low DAO amounts trigger listamine intolerance. So that okay, listen since we know the problem Why don't we look for something that solves the problem? And the easiest solution was to supplement the y We did not want to bring up any other chemicals, you know, to increase the production know or anything like that. No, we said I mean there must be a very, very natural solution for that and the most natural solution is you recommend time you supplement the end. He mess me up. And that was the origin idea As I said before, and this is really something I want to trress because this is this is really That's really something that disturbs me as one of the inventors of the whole thing terribly Recently, they have come up vegetarian drug get vegetarian VL cover Yeah, I was going ask you about this I really have to say, I mean For me as a scientist, it heartbreaking to see that there are products where first of all cannot find the source of those vegetaries producers don't tell you whereet they get it. You can look it up in the internet, you can check it wherever you want It's supposed to be pe, but nobody knows It's not it's not shown on the proam You can't even find where this that is being And it seems me, I mean I went with our product in Europe since we have very, very strict regulations here for food supplements We had to undergo a so called novel food registration. which is comparable to registration of a pharmaceutical So we had to do all the toxic toxychological studies. We have able to do human efficacy trials All that is being published. you find it in all the official publication papers And now pros come up saying they come from a vegetarian source W studies. for their efficacy which are actually our studies that we made with a big kid may theO. I mean excuse me, what is that Mu It may be that they have a functioning veian vegetarian meal. I don't know, but We look at those products and the same product quoted and efficac in one year, an efficacy from thirty thousand HTU which means sitting on thegrading unit. One million HD The same pr in one year Tiny A. What is it now Surprisingly, if you look at the package of those pro product They have exactly the same amount, namely four point two mid. deal. on their product So What a surprise that the DO same to be from a vegetarian source exactly the same quantity as our video that is scientifically proven and we can show you any kind any step in that production process, we can show you all the data behind it. we can show you all the clinical studies that we did with the product and We have ty years of success in the market, which is To me The biggest prone It's sorry for really getting emotional on that part, but that kills me And we have so many customers coming back to our colle after they tried vegetarian sauce because I understand, I mean, especially for women U we all from p kidneys I'm like, o I' got p kidney it really had to be kidn And then I always say, youen, we talk about Full point Tw migare which is Ito. zero zero zero four two grams. of Protein, big kidney protein. I mean, that's such a small amount that you will never ever do anywhere apart positive to your hist in total I have a girlfriend of mine who's a vegetarian with the Mast cell Aivation syyndrome, and she's a diagnosis of MCAS. And we had this conversation about DAO and the food she eats because she's very triggered by the dairy family, but she's vegetarian and loves her cheese And so I said, hey, just be aware, there is a vegetarian DAO out there But I want you to compare I want you to if you're going to get it buy both She's okay with that concept of the p kidney because such a small amount and she's trying to feel better. And in that case, she's like, it's okay Here and there for in a supplement, I'm willing to do non vegetarian workks So she got the vegetarian and she was like, I don't think DA works for me. I don't think this is part of my problem. I said, Okay, switch Switch and let's do the piiny. and do that instead before you have your cheese. try it. and so she switched to the pickiny Noticeable difference. when she remembers to take it. By metapzal. And I was like You know, I know, I'm sorry. it's not the same thing. I wish I could tell you it was the same thing, you know, for my vegetarian friends and listeners in this case, you know, I want you to use what works instead of et When you said HDU, will you explain what that is? So when people are looking at doses, what's the difference? Yes. HDU, as I said means hit in degrading unit. And that means DO, as I said before, acted DO the capability to degrade a certain amount of histamine in a certain amount of time The amount of time that was taken here as a reference was Fly average time food pass food takes to passath to our know sis that Within that time soion should be degraded to seal So that means If we take thirty thousand HDU, you can be sure that the correlating amount of vamine is being reduced to zero during the whole passage And that's what's so funny for me if I spe product quoting one million HE If you think about it, that would mean the same amount of end time Eake history in onene hundredth of times If it would be one way in H to you which is absolutely impossible because we talk about chemical processes here. it's not like Lo and he's the moon. get in contact and it's ab bulged. No, it takes some time to walk through and metapize. So it's impossible to have one million HD, even if it would be nice to add.' simply biochemically not One last remark to vegetarian You If you look at BO, which is existing in B and vegetables DO is not used to be great histening because in plans there is no l But it's to regulate cell wall architecture and produces hydrogen paroxide So I'll leave it to your listeners to whereet these are real solutions Via Yeah That makes sense. You have mentioned when you take DAO takeake it before you eat or before you drink as opposed to in the middle of it or after even bs That's a very important point. You have to take it before I mean, the perfect situation would be that you take me roughly about twenty minutes before the meet M I tell you, I mean I myself take it regularly and I always forget it. Even wor forgets Yeah, well, you know that we're not perfect What I do I have my small package with me if I go to restaurant to and shortly before I have my first drink or after I chosen my menu, I take And it bros perfect good thing the important thing is take it before. why again, I explain it They onlyn work in the small in pest time If the VO has not reached the small intestine before your t mean It cannot work put it on top. the words. It redued the little bit pill and mean it still works Perfect the perfect thing would be to have it before. That's very important And what's the average dose you know, if somebody because like for example, OmDM has multiple options. What is the average person looking at so they don't get overwelmed or confused So I would distinguish between several target groups, let's say weapons the groups Those who are really suffering from an ongoing histam and intolerance, which is already diagnosed they know about it, I would commedily recommend it at least three times a day which means with every meal Because you can never be sure whether there is some vom in in there or some blocking substance in the take it. Normally theO stays active Four to six hours. next. So if you take it three times a day, you have a twenty four hour protection and you don't have to think the about it. If you find out that you only react to certain things and or you only take it before parties where you know you get some more alcohol and things like that I would recommend you take it p people. before the ocation, have it done that Coming back to perimenopause, in this situation, I definitely would go for aenise two a day Wh sometime in the morning and theah the late afternoon will be occur from timing because then you still have those long range activities. And it can be nicely and well protected I hear of a lot of women that take it then before going to bed. which is then for all those bad time anxieties and everything and they felt a lot better with that. So In that case, I would really say tri and. I mean, really t it for yourself try to find out when are your peaks and try to take it before you you can more or less find there are certain areas during the day where I feel normally not as good as in others Try to do it before and then just watch it And then There are y nutrients that help it work better, correct There are there are several of them I mean, cllassic thing is copper, as fununny as it sounds. Copper is something that definitely enhances the activity and whitemoon sep Vitam mean in combination with the O has shown very nice effect. I would really call those two mainly And those were really things that Well this was really surprising for us as well If you have that in a combination, you get very, very nice, very nice and so And this is amazing. And in your research, you said it before, but I'm going to ask again because I know women are going to ask me There's no side effects. It's generally considered safe I can absolutely guarantee that. whyy can I guarantee that too easily? notot only because we did those toxicological studies and they were all toxicological studies because of the efficiacy of the product Again, DO is an enthyile that is working locally in the small entest It is not metapolized, it's not taken into the body There is no transition from the inside of the smo intest plank to your internal system They Zoom there And it has only one very simple effect only metaboliz histamine If there is no instiment around It doesn't do it An triip Gpha Amazing Oh my gosh, this has been so great Okay, we're gonna to get to the point. I'm gonna to ask you sort of some of the rapid fire questions And then we'll, you know, wrap up onine I like rapid fire. You like the rapid fire? Okay. I mean confronted with an American, you should like rapid fire actually. Exactly. Yes Okay, let's goes And this one with with the food because I don't want to vify food. I love that that you said, you know, these are good foods for you. But one of the questions I have is In your experience, like what is the most histamine loaded food or drink that women are probably consuming a lot that may be adding to that histamine bucket? Well, as I said before, spinach and avocado definitely are one of those B. Congbuk and Sourpds put right underneath that and never forget champagne Champagne is something. I mean, it's a pity. Yeah. I love my ch. I myself love champagne. Yeah The combination of a block and subance, meaning the alcohol that is contained in that champagne is containing and it has Quite a lot of his beenin also. The point here is and this is something also very interesting. I also want to address that point. We have passed wing Auto reedline from the same wingyard The same grade different Yes in one year, it had A lot of polemen in that. The next year almost none and in the third year ever Also it has been produced the same way, notothing changed. They have been in the same barrels. they have been in the same, not in the same bottles, but in the same kind of bottle The same Whatever. So It's really hard and that's actually the most difficult thing for people suffering from hisatorult reactions to that cannot really predict it. It's not something that you can say yes This is it, especially with the fermented books, that's right In one case, ye, In the next case, no There's one exception to this rule and this exception is Hi toistal If you ever had Thai fish, if you know somebody who is really suffering from wisdom and forath is something you can kill it with No, I'm exacting. but it can be really, really really bad And why is't it so? It's a very simple exlanation I fish those. I don't know if you know how to c you It's rotten fish they put fish in a big, big bucket and let it rotten. Then they have a little faucet in the end. and if they open that becomes a dg, they put out and that's work What it? It's fermented fish Which means it stored in a warm area so long that it dissolves into this liquid It doesn't countound verying the hand night, but itques wonder And I It's one of the main ingredients of Thai food and without that, again What did that sayy? It flameor carrier It's a perfect b o So if you pull that Almost anythingthing tastes toever because it's just riched in flavor that you got and your your your u gum says Perfect. That's although love. is this is yes. Wonderful. giveive me more. B You don't have enough NO in your body or that causes real probleble But again There history been in there, not a problem, not a problem. It's only a problem that you lack now here I For years, decades I can eat Thai food fresh usually I cannot eat Thai food the next day. I cannot eat Thai food leftovers. It destroys my stomach Yeah And now I know why. That dang fish sauce. Oh, but it makes it taste so good Okay, I forgot to ask you about this, the birth control pill. You know, a lot of women have a long history of the birth control pill. Perimenopausal women will rely on the birth control pill in some cases Is there hormone therapy or to prevent pregnancy? How does that impact EAO O even histamine Yeah, if we talk about the long the long term use of oral contraceptives These affect the a dual mechanism The first one is it's the nutrient depletion. The pill is long to deplete Vitamin B six, which is a critical core factor of bial production Without basics, the body cannot effectively anicize the empire So If you take for a long time, notot enough in six. follows not enough deal And the second mechanism is the hormonal suppression tactic gestygen in the pill can chronically down reggulate the activity while the suppression of natural evvolation prevents the monthly surgical ob gesure a homer that is typically here to help stimulate theA activity. There has been recently in twenty twenty five there was a new study on that And it was really interesting from while Ion with Dr. Brighton If I remember correctly And that was really interest because it told exactly that exact So yes, it does affect, especially if in the long term And I forget I I tell women The birth control pill or all contraceptives, essentially not just be sixx, but it essentially depletes like a multivitamin's worth The list is very long. Most of the B vitamins, vitamin C, vitamin E Like it really depletes a lot out of the body And I don't think It's not commonly discussed And so women, even the women, when women are like, oh, I didn't like the pill, it didn't work for me. Yes, it could be the synthetic hormone But also it could be over time, it's really depleted your nutrients and nobody thoughtought to bring that back. And then as you said, and then on top of it, they develop Histamine intolerance type symptoms, especially from foods as an example. That's exactly the point. And if you think about it, I mean, it's a mean way during the period of life because you take contraceptives until you' maybe, I don't know, fourty A of fories then Ging manople set in then you have the problem problem that The astrogen suppresses the videoioactivity Sool Once you get rid of one problem, the next problem comes up and you just have this ongoing situation of not having Navo or having excess metile production of wh and bean in the body Well this is us something. I mean, if you think about it that And That the can I shop you doctor Yeahly carry. The seventeen Bet Australia. That's really that's the main trigger. You is a p to bal reggulate the mum accidident He is a variation in individual sensitivity with that Research indicates that High acin levels can suppress neo activity significantly. up to twenty to fifty percent reduction in DO production during the peak of mentensal psychopy. And this is really something must not be forgot. Yeah. this causes these We call it the perfect store Because estrogen triggers also the metass cell, as we said before to release more hstamine and simultaneously, you lower the enzyme need to clear it a very interesting part here to bring The other side of the coin during pregnancy plcent produced so lar DO that levels canverge to five hundred to one thousand times more than the normal VO activity, the normal DO amounts to protect the fetus from uterous contraction That is the reason why many women suffering from HIT symptoms miraculously vanished during prereatment So You can see there are so many cove factors for the gctonal BO and all the production of histamine for mass gls that you cannot just simply of food That would be two simple. Last question, why do you think DAO isn't were talked about Educators and I mean, like I said, I've been first of all, I've been taking it myself for the last couple of years. so I'm a huge fan. But I'm also a histamine forward person. So I would say the majority of people, when they talk about histamines, they'll talk about removing foods. They'll talk about anti histamines, of course. They may talk about the other side. we didn't talk about the HNMT You rarely hear about DAO out there in the world Well H Let's say the other way around. Imagine when we originally started the whole thing with the ear early two thousands the m toerance of DO wasn't even existing Yeah. I mean, nobody even knew that there is something like putood intolerance. It wasn't here. The only thing that was known by that time was lack of control and Newton morials Okaykay Last me up. And if I look now, I mean, I can only talk about Europe. in Europe, it has become a real topic and if you go out on Seden I by about hentors I think Two out of three at least know quaintly what it is all. They know definitely that it's not an allergye, which is a big stat open. So yes, you're right. it's still We are still in the beginning. we are still and it see that is one of our main tasks to spread the bird here to underlying with more scientific data to bring up even more information about this These are the things that can only be done with tile As I said before, what kills me that Croggs pp pop up without any scientific background. claiming to have some solution like like all kinds of yeah vitamin products or probiotics that you see suddenly claiming to have an effect on thisinorance, which Forging the word it's bullsit That doesn't work Be The problem is so easy. I say why are't always coming up with some new idea? the problem is so easy. You need VAO. The only thing you need is This is also something very important maybe to be stressed again that buildu in a capsule with million grams of Dal The the in there ismoke acted It doesn't help. Enzymes need to be active to have it And this is completely mixed up. That's also too interesting why The simple ation that there is a certain gram amount of DO in a product doesn't show anything about the activity is beyond anyimes in there. that light so important that it comes more a control production that it comes on a quality control production product that goes off our shelves to complepletely checked Three times that we can Cue. having batch his j. that we are degrading history in the way They we do Well, this is why I had you on the podcast today because again, I I long before I knew who you were As a person, I knew your company I had tried other companies because other companies There's some other companies out there that make DAO didn't notice the difference, found OmniiM. through a friend of mine And I was and then like it was like magic. And I thought, I wonder what the difference is. startarted to learn more And then here we are today. I've read your research being the scientist that you are because Again When you are as hysteminergic as I am I need I want what works I hate all the allergies. So I hateI symptoms I really have to say thank you very much for that I always called and I have to say thankks to my team, which is perfect in the US. I whole team iss great. I mean Gooington, you know our girls they arere doing a wonderful job there. We do a lot of customer information. So whatever information you need just Contact us directly, you know the website. So just go to ODM and look there. We can give you a lot of background information about symptoms, about the correlation between hormones. and d production and system in production. So please go there. We are more than happy to help you with that Amazing. And we will, of course, link Omnidium in our show notes. I do because I'm so passionate. they were so generous to give me a discount for the listener. So if you use code Dr. Jones, you will get a discount So again, Helmet, thank you so much for being on the Hello Hormones podcast. I think this is going to be really eye opening for a lot of people. somethingomething that I mean, I even learned a ton and I take DAO pretty much every day. So this has been great. Thank you Thanks a lot again for the opportunity and possibility to be on your podcast. It was more than interesting. Thankks for all the questions and toust Perfectly scientific. I have to say that. Thank you very much I love it