Entrepreneurial Lessons and Final Thoughts

Welcome back to Hump day Hormones. Today we are talking about something often that women notice before they even realize that they're in perimenopause and that is changes in your skin. So many women tell us that their skin suddenly feels drier, more sensitive, less firm harder manage than ever before. The truth is that declining estrogen affects far more than our hot flashes in our periods and it has a major impact on the skin health as well. Joining us today is Susan Campbell. She is the founder of phosis, a skincare line specifically designed for perimenopausal and menopausal skin She has an award winning brand that was recognized by Oprah's Daily Menopause Awards and chooses clean plant based ingredients to support and restore the skin barrier during this hormonal transition. So today we are going to discuss the science of aging skin, the role that hormones play in skin health, and then Susan's specific journey as an entrepreneur to create this exciting brand and behind the scenes stories on Oprah and a possible shark tank experience. So this is all just so exciting. stay tuned. Bey Hump Day. Welcome to the Hump D Hormone podcast. I am Dr. Jill Jennings, a board certified OBUYN and menopause Society certified practitioner. And I'm Courtney Span. I'm a nurse practitioner and we work at the womomen's cllinic in Little Rock, Arkansas on the campus of Baptist Health We are here to talk about all things female hormone related. From puberty to menopause and everything in between, we are here to inform you from a medical point of view about the latest scientific evidence in the world of hormones. You can find us on Facebook and Instagram as hump Day Hormones. and you can also email us at hump dayay hormones at gmail. com Welcome back. This is season two, episode seventy five. We are so excited. So Courtney is not here today. She is in Turks and Cicos with her family on summer vacay, but I am here with Susan Campbell And she is the founder of Phosis So we're so excited to have her. Y'all know when I do this podcast and we talk about vitamin D or DHEA or whatever product or supplement or whatever we're talking about, I usually make it a big deal that like I don't promote specific brands because I don't want people to think I'm some sort of influencer who's telling you to use something just because I make money off of it because I don't. And so I want you to kind of you know, buy into things because you get the science behind them and why you need them. And so it is sort of off my brand a little bit that we are have an actual brand on our show. But I think it's just so cool and I think there's so much kind of science behind it. and I think it's so interesting to know like the whole entrepreneur, like how did you totally just create this you saw a problem, you created a solution and created an entire product. And I just think that is all so amazing that I just had we had to have Susan on here. So Yeah. she is friends with Dr. Hernsberger. He or she's neighbors and friends and friends and friends. Yeah. with Dr. Hernsberger. He was the ear nose and threat specialist that was on our podcast a while back. And so that's how we kind of got connected is that her and Dr. Harnberger were talking. So just start with your story. Just tell us why you created phosis and the background and all that. Of course. Well, first Jill, thanks so much for having me.ay. I'm excited to be here And I actually have a fairly diverse background. I have an MFA in metalsmithing and jewelry design So I'm a formally trained jeweler, but I also have spent the past twenty five years teaching therapeutic yoga and pilates. I own my own studio in town and I do a lot of rehabilitative work for people that need hip replacements or are recovering from hip replacement something that precludes them from going to a traditional yoga or plates class or a group scenario I decided when I was In my early forties, I realized that my skin was starting to really change. And so that is what started my whole interest in what is actually happening to the skin Yeah I mean, yeah, I definitely have had those moments where you like stare in the mirror and you're realize like What is that I didn't used to have all these spots on my skin and I didn't used to have all these wrinkles or like I have definitely had the moments where I look down at my hands and I'm like, Those are my mother's hands. L, right? the spots, the hyperpigmentation, of course And for me, the changes were subtle at first. so I didn't necessarily connect it with perimenopause. I think for me, it was like, oh, my skin feels a little bit der or a little bit tighter, or I have a bit of a weird rash this morning And I'm not really sure what this is, but for me, it progressed to the point where my skin got very itchy And especially I wouldd have these spots to my legs and I would be itching them to the point where they would bleed. It was reallyally bad and I thought, I don't understand what's happening and I don't know what to do about it And you is was this before or after you because you were a menopause coach. Yeah correct. Yeah. Yeah. So you know about hormones. Did this happen like after that or were you already? It happened before. It happened before where I just didn't even think I was in perimenopause. And you know, I was still cycling every month. So no physician at that time said, maybe you should consider perimenopause. I had many women that sort of consolation seemingly unconnected symptoms. And so you kind of go from doctor to doctor to doctor and no one says like, hey, by the way your hormones are changing. This is probably the root cause of a lot of these issues. R. And that was also in part what inspired me to become a menopause coach because I didn't understand that even some of my lifestyle choices were contributing to these symptoms. That's right. Yeah. So what made you decide, I mean, there's There's just bkoos of products out there. It's overwhelming, even for somebody who sort of has a science background to walk down the aisle of target or I mean, good God, Sephora, you're like I either need to buy all of this stuff or I don't know which one of these I need. So what made you feel like that you could just develop your own rather than find the exact rights to for a product for you Well, I was that girl who just didn't really understand skincare. I was never the person that spent a lot of time washing my skin or finding what the next trendy ingredient is. I just thought you just wash your skin with soap and throw on whatever moisturizer, and you're good to go. Once they start having all these problems, I didn't know where to turn So I tried drugstore brands. Then I asked my friends, I tried what they recommended. Then I tried luxury brands. I thought, well, maybe if I just spend more money, something will get fixed. And then I went and sew my dermatologist. And I was like, what is happening? What is going on? And they said, oh, you just need these drugstore brands that are specifically for sensitive skin I tried those and even those didn't work. So I really felt like there's something going on. I need to start researching, what is happening to my skin? and what can I do about it? And so I just was like, well, maybe I can just make my own skinca Yeah. I mean, I love that. And then I mean, so was that kind of this what was the moment where you like, okay, I think this is menopause related and I think I can create something different It was a moment of trying to find a solution that didn't exist in the marketplace. Like if you search for menopause skincare in twenty nineteen notothing was coming up. Yeah. even today, it's less common of a skincare brand, which is wild because I mean menopause is definitely having ent There's a huge moment, which is so exciting. R. Right. But there just weren't things on there. And so in my yoga practice, I teach a lot of women that are aged fifty five to eighty. So a lot of them are clearly in menopause. And I would talk to them,' like what do you use for your skin What do you like They also said the same thing. likeike, well I'm using this thing and it's for anti aging. I don't really like it I'm like, well, does it? And they all said No, but I don't know what else to use. Yeah And someone said this was, you know really good or someone, you know, recommended it to them. And they were women, you know, someone were paying a lot of money for their skincare and some were just going to Target and buying things. No one was really happy.'s g right When we were talking, you know, before we decided to do this, I mean when we were talking, I'm like These were all of the things that my mom was saying too. I mean, she went through just All the different skincare regimens and then we for a short time had a medS spa. I was bringing her stuff from our med spa. She eventually went and got allergy tested because she just kept getting these like whelps. I mean, it was and not something that she's always had, you know, it' something that she wass kind of developing as she got older I think there's definitely a need for something different, but like what is different about phosis The thing about phosis is that it was created specifically for menopausal skin. And for me, that really differentiates it from anti aging skincare because anti aging skincare typically is going to be more aggressive And the active botanicals or the active ingredients and what they're using, they aren't even necessarily clean ingredients And so A lot of those products can disrupt barrier function whichich for menopausal women, is at the root of having healthy skin for longevity. So for me, it was how do we create a skincare company that really supports the biological changes in the skin first and foremost and support it from the inside out Right, because like like retinol and things like that are definitely gonna, I mean, anybody who's ever used a little bit of retinA or something like that knows that it causes like your skin to be dry, sort of scale off, flake off, definitely benzulf peroxide, salicylic acid, all of those are very harsh. And That's what they are trying to do is Basically disrupt your barrier. Yes. So if you are going to apply products with those ingredients on skin that already has a weakened or disrupted barrier, you are really sort of throwing gasoline on a fire It's important to restore the barrier first and then start looking for some of those other redients. Are you wearing phosis now? Y skin? Are you wearing in make? I'm wearing no makeup. Your skin is so pretty. Thank you. I'm sitting right here, y'all y'all aren' you can probably see on the camera. But I mean, to wear, I can't even wear no makeup. I'm forty five. I feel like I have to wear makeup mostly to cover like sunspots and things like that. I'm fifty one. Yes. And I'm wearing new makeup. And I love that. that I as a fifty one year old woman. literally get up in the morning and put on mascar and love glass. I'm good to go. Well, and how like free and give you back that time, you know Yeah. As someone who was running late this morning, I'm like, but hang on, I got this concealer under my o. So I mean, we're gonna have to have a moment for that. But yeah, I mean, your skin is great. you're clearly onto something. then Why the name phosis? What does that mean? Phosis is short for metamorphosis because I have been so inspired by butterflies and this huge transformation that caterpillars go through And I really thought as I was coming into my menopausal transition What if these were the best years of my life? Yeah? I really felt like society often has painted menopausal women as like, this is the end of your life. Like this your fertility in Zom. Yes. L your life is over And I really resented that messaging because I thought Why could these not be my best years? Like yes, it's going to be hard. Yes, I maybe I am not sleeping as well. and yes, my body is slowing down and I've got some brain fog and I've got some achy joints. But does that mean I shouldn't away just stop Is that the end? And I was like, no. So all that, again, inspirred me to become a menopause coach so I can make like proper lifestyle choices and to find the right healthcare provider that can help me with hormonal support if I needed it. And really open up to the best years of my life. So phos Of course inspired by a butterfly, and we use butterfly wings in all of our pack. I know it's so pretty. we should have we don't have, mayaybe we'll somehow link it on our YouTube, but her packaging is like, yeah, you did a close up on a butterfly wing or something. It's so pretty and looks so like luxury. I mean compared I mean, we've had that Medpa, we've had the most expensive skinaceuticals and skin better and we've had very expensive skincare lines. and I mean, it I would say compares right up to that in the packaging and then how it feels. it feels so Soft but not greasy Um Yes, Yes. the thing is I really wanted to come to the market with a new product and a new texture And and people like moistizers is moisturizer. And I thought that is not true for this product. First of all, it is so thick you cannot shake it out of a jar. There are pictures of me on my Instagram shaking this jar. I'm down. that's funning. Because women really need a different level of moisture Yeah Yeah. Well, and I will say like as somebody who's struggled with PCOS and sort of really oily skin, oily hair, acne, those kinds of things growing up Like I've I did every single product you can think of to fight the oil cohol astringent Wow What were those called? Clerocil Clerocil. Yeah, those like astringent pads that burn when you put them on. like I loved that because I felt like it was like sucking up that oil. I mean, I fought oil for a long time. and so I remember it was when we got our med spa and that it was like, wait, I'm supposed to put this vitamin C oil oil on my skin. This is so weird. This I'm immediately gonna have a face full of acne, but I'll try it. and, you know, I never gave me acne and I've been using your products at night and I have not I don't have any acne. And so I mean, I think We that is a hard transition to as someone who's smacked out in the middle of perimenopause is like kind of figuring out how to treat your skin as it changes. Like I don't have oily skin anymore, but I was still using all my oily skin products because that's all I knew And and they had always worked. so it doesn't occur to you to right switch now. Yeah. So I was kind of like I'll use lotion when I get a dry patch on my skin. And then you close up in the mirror, well we built a new house and I put this mirror that kind of comes down. It's a makeup mirror and it's lighted And I was like H my skin always look like this? Or am I just seeing it closer? And so you know, and then I'm like, man, I need to start taking better care of my skin. And so Yeah, you do have to, I think have some education in kind of what you need though because it is majorly different than what you do in your For sure teen years and twenties when you're fighting that oil and trying not to clog up pores. and now it's like I'm not necessarily thinking about clogging them up. I just want them to look smaller and All that. Yes. And our moisturizer to not have disappeared by noon.. I talked to so many women that they put on their serums, they put on their moisturizers, they put on their face oil And then they put on their makeup. and then by noon there's skin still looks cracked. You know? Well, and like dewy skin is very in now. My daughter is twelve. and so she's very into like every Sephora product, whether she it or not. And I mean, she has beautiful skin because she just doesn't hasn't had she's like the opposite end of perenopause, right? She's like before puberty. She hasn't had the hormones affect her skin yet in like a good way. So she hasn't had the natural oils and things like that, but she puts all this stuff on her face to make it look dewy I mean, that look is very in. It is very. And I think it's very healthy looking because it's kind of this glow U But Yeah, I also resent the anti aging, just anything really that says it's going to anti age us because we can't not age. This makes me so mad. Yeah as a consumer. I thought Who are you to tell me that like My natural aging process Ist that okay? or yeah Or worse, it's bad. Yeah, donon't age. And then the only way I can be happy is if I'm fighting this thing that cannot be stopped. Yeah. Like what if I just want to look like a healthy forty five year old? because that's what I am, you know, And ye. And what's wrong with that? Right I don't I don't want to be like I was when I was in my twent. No. You know, I just think I'm a better version of myself now. but yeah, my skin can also look aged because we've got some wisdom behind that, but in a good way. But in a good way. yeah Byind that I have fine lines on my skin. Right I should. Like you get to be a certain age and your skin is not going to look like it did when it' twenties. Where are the women that say that's okay. Yeah. but can I just have healthy enough skin that I can get up and go without makeup? That's amazing. Thank you. Yes. Okay, so let's just talk about like Menopause and skin changes. like, I mean, we spend thousands of dollars on hormones, supplements, laser treatments. Like where where does skincare kind of fit in there For me, this was really important because Teaching therapeutic yog and plies for so long, I really learned the importance of strengthening muscles and bones. Why are we not strengthening our skin? And so for me, skincare, skin as our largest organ. Why are we not addressing it with the same kind of intensity and focus that we are in other organs and areas of our bodies as we age Yeah, and I think it that like, um Like almost having your basics, your architecture, your I mean, you can't like you wouldn't build a castle and not put a moat around it. Like I feel like your skincare is like your moat. I mean you can't You could laser, I guess, any skin, but like if it's not healthy from the inside out, then you just spent thousands of dollars. Exactly on a very short term solution. And like you can put filler in and Botox and I mean I love some Botoks, but like you know, at the end of the day, that's all going to wear off. And so right. What's the baseline architecture of your skin? And the baseline architecture is absolutely changing as those estrogen levels are declinbing. Yeah. And so without replenishing structure of the skin It really it's not that it doesn't matter those other modalities that you use, but they're going to be less effective if you haven't addressed the foundation I imagine it like this is probably a poor analogy, but like I feel like we've all been there when we were like in college and you rent an apartment and they're like, oh, hang on, you can't move in yet. We're going to clean that up for you. And then they really just like paint and they paint like over the light thick the light switch and over the like doorstop. I mean, they just like all they do is just take paint and like go over everything and you're like, you didn't really clean it. In fact, there's like pet hair now painted into my wall Um but I mean, it's like that. That's what I feel like if you're like lasering or using crappy skin products on your skin is you're just trying to like somehow go over the problem or it's like let's use birth control for your PCOS. That's not truly fixing the underlying root cause of the problem. And that's what we talk about up here all the time is let's get to root cause. And so let's like yeah, from the inside out, have good skin. And then if we still need a laser or a sunspot or two, okay, I mean, I'm not saying that's bad But just are you fixing your moat? Exactly. And I would never say to anybody, don't do a laser treatment or use a specific product or whatever it is. This is it comes down to your skin and what you're dealing with. and all women are going to be dealing with something slightly different Yeah. And so the importance is get the foundation strong. rebuild the barrier and then see what your skin needs. Yeah. And I think most people don't think of like what is actually happening to our skin as far as like that we have estrogen receptors in all those little cells of our skin Like I feel like people don't Sot about that because we just think about estrogen and ovaries and periods and hot flashes and boobs. Right. You know, evenven though we have estrogen receptors all throughout the body. Yeah. And so like skin cells, keratinocytes, fibroblasts, sebaceous cells. So that's why you get drier because you're just not as stimulated in those sebaceous glands to make the oil hair follicles. You don't I mean, I don't know if everybody notices this, but you don't have to shave your legs as often and things like that. And then blood vessels, like we don't have as much actual blood flow We have shriveling up little like fibroblast and careracinocytes to make the collagen and things like that. And then we don't have enough blood flow to them. So even if they wanted to be more functional. you know, So it's just like, you have things going against you at multiple levels of the declining estrogen that you can't help. That's just natural And so in the end result, yeah, it leaves skin that's thin and dry and less elastic I mean, we talk about this all the time with the vagina. It's like the exact same thing is happening to the skin on your face. Eact same thing is happening. Eact same thing. And we talk about it all the time. If it is time for you to use a skin carere product on your face It is time for vaginal estrogen. And what I think is interesting is now people are starting to use their vaginal estrogen on their face. O their face, right? Because of all these reasons that we're saying. Yes. Yeah. So I'm not promoting that. Right. Well, and we were talking about this before we started recording. We we really don't have a lot of data in that space I think it's coming, I hope it's coming. I'met looking forward to a much larger clinical trial with expert medical grading where we un really see like the before and after we' testing skin at baseline week four week g eight week twelve to really see what does estrogen do when we apply it topically to the skin. But I think that the jury is still out as of today Yeah, and I think I mean, I think the science makes sense. and I think that's why maybe people are like,, what the heck? I'm not going to wait on that research trial I'm just gonna to slather on some some estrdol or estriol on my face.. I mean, it makes sense that it should restore some collagen and that natural hyaluronic acid that is our like natural sort of moisture in our skin and some of that barrier stuff. I mean, it all makes sense U, But and so I guess that brings up like with phosis I'm not really following our script. sorry. withith PSis. Do you have, have you done trials like that with PSis? We did do trials with POis. Yes, which really surprised me as a skincare entrepreneur that the FDA requires zero testing. before you go to market. withith like this over the counter for over the counter like for any company. I know doesn't that's crazy. So that anybody that wants to just sell skincare It's not tested. Yeah. It doesn't have to be tested. That's Loreal, but no ye. It doesn't have to be tested. And so when I was building my company and I said, I want to test these products inside out, upside down to make sure they are safe, they're effective, they are proven. People looked at me like I had three heads Yeah. whyy would you waste all that money doing that N because I want to know. Because it can be hundreds of thousands of dollars, peopleeople don't understand the testing is very expensive and it's time consuming. and you may not get the results that you like I thought, why would I personally was not going to go to market with a product that wasn't tested wasn't clinically proven to actually improve your sk. And they all say that. They all say on their commercials like So this is really interesting because you can have a consumer perception study versus a clinical trial. and most women don't told to read the fine print. There's always going to be an asterisk And so underneath of that asterks, if it says, you know, a consumer perception study It just means that whoever made the product gave it to women And then they gave them a questionnaire And they probably, I mean, in reality, they probably gave them free products L here, use this on your skin for twelve weeks or whatever. not even that long. And they were maybe paid. Yeah. And then tell me, do you think it helped? And B most people are gonna to be like, you gave it to me for free and maybe you gave me fifty bucks. And yeah, I think it did. I think it helped Yeah, I think my skin looks more of my stes. I think it looks better, you know? And so the average consumer doesn't understand that there' often leading questions. And people may be incentivized to leave positive reviews. Well, and there's so much bias there too. L if you're in a trial, you're going to do really well at getting your makeup off every night and putting your cream on because you're in a trial to be doing that. you know. Yes. And so we ran an IRB reviewed third party clinical trial, much that how you would test a drug. Yeah. And so I was not even obviously not on site for it. so I had nothing to do with it. I never met the people so I couldn't influenence them on what they were saying. And then we did expert medical grading. So we were using corneiometers. We were using two meters. so we were testing the skin at baseline, at week four, week eight, so that we had actual measurements, and we had before and after pictures so that we knew how these products were working. So in addition to that, we also did ATRP, which is human repeat insult patch testing Also not required by the FDA, but I wanted to make sure that it didn't irritate sensitive skin Well, yeah, becauseuse you wanted to use it on your own skin. And my skin had become increasingly sensitive. So trying to find a product that had been tested through ATrip was very challenging. And if I could find that product had that had passed Arip, then it would have questionable ingredients that I wasn't comfortable putting in my skin Yeah. So it all was how do we find something was clean was proven that was effective, that was safer sensit of skin. And furthermore, I wanted products that were multifunctional So I made sure that the products were safe to use around eye area Which is another test that most people don't do at all unless it's an actual eye product. But I don't want sixteen layers to my skincare routine. right? I mean it like two products that I need to be off the door. I don't have time for this.. And so being able to use the face cream as an eye ream We saw that it works and it's sae for you sur your eyes. Yeah I love it. I love it so much. I mean that it's so weird. L I'm sure you had moments where you were like, why doesn't this exist? Yeahes. Like Why am I the one thinking of this? Why am I the only one caring? Yeah. Well and I think probably nobody else has the like energy and tenacity to like walk through all of that process. And then like you said, it's obviously probably very expensive And I'm sure along the way, you're probably like, oh my goodness. I'm deep down the rabbit hole at this point. So we got to finish this So you have to finish this out. Yes and get it done. And I'm so glad I spent the time and the money and the energy because I sleep well at night, knowing that we have a really solid product that's very safe and has proven effective. It's not just marketing you know, like slick words of, you know, trying to get women just to like part with their money and then never buy it again. You know, We're looking to really help women So what ingredients like in your products are more important to have there after menopause? So I think end or maybe lack of first ceramides, which are not necessarily some new novel ingredient ceramides who've been around for a long time, but that is part of ceremon. I just know I see that name on a box sometimes. So your skin is like brick and mortar, right?. And so it's that mortar againains over time. And so the ceremamites help rebuild that mortar And so that's part of rebuilding that barrier function that is decreasing as we age in those declining estrogen levels. But also so many women are using the wrong products or they're over cleansing, they're overve exfoliating because they're searching for that really smooth skin. And all of that also contributes to barrier disruption So that's And if your mortar's broken, you're never going to get this smooth. No. No, you're going keep having reactions. And sometimes women, like the more products that they're putting on their skin, trying to find something, the worse it gets because you have all these products interacting on the surface of your skin. So there can be more redness, more irritation Yeah Well, and I'm a big fan of Mary Claire Haver. anyybody in the menopause world knows who she is. Yeah. But she sometimes I'm like, we are we like following the same pathway for our podcast? 'cause I swear like a couple of times, we've both talked about the same thing within a couple weeks that she did just have a plastic surgeon on her podcast talking about skin. And I was like, shoot, this was my idea So but it's fine. I mean, there's enough knowledge to go around. But they were talking about and I just found this statistic like mind boggling and I had to like fact check her. And obviously she was correct. But like is college and loss really as dramatic as people say And it is is it is. The numbers are astounding and I think women don't understand that. I didn't believe them when I heard them really changes how your skin looks on your face. Yeah. So yes, normal collag and loss about one percent per year first five years of menopause, a whopping thirty percent. That's where I was like, no, immediately, no. I'm gonna have to look this up. But it makes sense because if you think about bones, we always quote that you lose twenty percent of your bone in the first five years. And bone and skin cellularly are kind of the same. like fibroblast, all that stuff. And so I'm like, well, scientifically, okay, maybe. And then yeah, you look it up. sureure enough. thirty percent of our collagen So we only have that means like I'm like only have seventy left. Like I need to be pouring all the ides oratever on them. I think you need ceramides and I think you need emoleons. I mean think you need things that protect your skin and help protect against trans epidural water loss, which sometimes you also see written as Tuol T E W L. And so as we age, your skin is not only less able to make its own oil, but it's also less able to maintain its own moisture. like hold h that oil and to hold that water in. so that if your skin is evaporating water all day long because you haven't put an emollent layer on your skin to help protect it, it just leads to an increase in local fine lines in wrinkles Is this like why older women would put just like vaselineine or like my grandmother had this stuff that was made by Merle Norman. I don't even know if they make it anymore. It was this like red, pink color and it was like It felt like vaseline. Yes. That's like was. I to put it on my skin because she thought it was going to make my skin healthy and she didn't understand why I had so much acne And I was like, no, please don't put that greasy stuff on my face. But I mean, you know, she needed that on her face. She needed that on her face. And I think women really underestimate that level of dryness that really changes between the ages of forty five and fifty five Yes, Yes. She was coming at me with all the emoleents when I was sixteen. You were probably right to run. At that age. Yeah. Okay. so ceramides, emoleent. I'm not even saying that word. All right. emoleents. You know, like glycerin is a fantastic Okay. ingredient. for skin, you see it in a lot of skincare. you see it in a lot of anti aging skincare. It's a wonderful ingredient. Yeah. so what will it say ceramide on say Yeah, you should. Yes It will say it won't say emoleent. No it'll say glyerin you know. I think now that we have you know, AI agents like Chat GPT, I would ask the Air agents like, what's in this? because you can ask them to look up the ingredients and see like, is this is this good? I had somebody do this and review that they did for me that they weren't sure about these ingredients because we do have some really exciting and interesting ingredients like a red algae extract And so yeah, because they didn't know the likeike They're hard to pronounce some of them. and so they didn't know what they were. So they fed all the ingredients into Chat GPT and said like what is this? Yes. Well, I saw that on your website when I was bruising around about the red algae. I'm glad you brought that up because I meant to ask. L what's up with the algae? There's a couple of different algae extracts in there. but one of them is really interesting because it works to soften fine lines and wrinkles over time. It's sometimes called noox. And so W instead of Botax instead of photax So is that going to work as well as Botox because it's not injected into the skin. But if you are something that somebody that's using Botox, the idea is that can help extend the use of your Botox, so you can get a little bit more time out of it. But what it does is that it disrupts the neurotransmitters in the skin And so that it helps interrupt that connection that says, you know, like for the muscle contractions Oh wow. It's a really interesting ingredient That's so cool. What else what else she got in there So we also have vitamin C in the face oil, which if you are not using vitamin C, you absolutely need to be using vitamin C for that we have white truffle extract. we have. That sounds like it'd be good to eat. Okay, Ton't eat thisin here. Yeah for that. Yeah. No, but they were on Mary Claire's podcast too. they were talking about vitamin C. And that was the first my first introduction to an oily substance on my paramenausal skin was vitin C. Vitamin C. yes. And vitamin C comes in all different ranges and forms. And what a lot of people don't know is that it's not the most shelf stable, right ingredients. So and you as a consumer don't know which variation of vitamin C that a contract manufacturer or brand is using And so I searched high and low to find one that was shelf stable, that was less sensitive to light and that could be used in an oil product safely. Well, and your bottle is kind of that the bottle's dark, That dark color so the light can't affect it. because yeah, that's a big deal with vitamin C. And it's also weird to me that like you can find the ten dollar ten vitamin C target and then you find the one hundred and eighty dollars you know, CE Ferulick right is, you know, the one that made it famous. but like, What's the difference there I can't always speak to whatever each brand is using for that. but like how is some Vitamin C ten dollars justust because it's a lesser grade of it And is pro stable. It's probably not going to do anything that gets onto your face. No. There's also, this is interesting to me from a formulation standpoint, is that There are no guidelines on how much of an ingredient must be in a product. So I can say this is a vitamin C serum And there may be zer zero five percent vitamin C in there So most people don't understand, but that the ingredients are listed just the way they are, like when you buy food, so that they are they must be listed in order of like how much that ingredient is in there. So It gets tricky because you actually wouldn't want vitamin C in your product at thirty percent, right? That's gonna be too much. But if it's like the very last thing You might question that how much is it really in there doing? Yeah, but nobody's going to list out the percentage. No, and nobody does because typically that's proprietary information for each brand Yeah, that's so crazy because I mean these are things. I mean, to be honest, we're just walking down the aisle at Ulta or wherever and it's a it's basically a marketing's who has the best marketing team Yes. And so typically that one that has that vitamin C sam that's one hundred and eighty dollars probably has enough vitamin C in it to actually help your skin Yeah Well, and I mean, I don't want to make decisions with any of the rest of my health carere off of like who is the best at marketing because like if we were doing that, I mean like birth control pills and all of that would probably win out on like who knows more about what and who's more readily available, but that's not the best. Not necessarily. Yeah. or some big pharma brand name drug. that might not be the best. No, they just have the best markareting team because they can't afford it because they can afford it. So it is turns out the same thing with skincare is you really need to know the science behind it. That's why I think this is so interesting because not only where you like I want to make a product, but you had to dig down and learn all this stuff about the science behind it. I did because I actually went back to school to become an organamic skincare formulator becausecause I wanted to know right becausecause I thought, okay, my skin is changing and I had tried all these products and nothing was working and I was confused and I was done wasting money. like I was annoyed, right? Like every time I think a lot of women relate to this, like you like go and you find this new product and you're so excited about it and you try it, and you're like Aarent it didn't really do anything. So I decided to become I'm going to use it because I paid a hundred dollarars. It like I wanted it to work. And so that's part of the reason it led me to become a skincare formulator so that I understood. So it's online where you can take courses for that. And it was a two year program. It was really ense. Sounds like the organic chemistry lab all over again Yeah, pretty much.. It was a really interesting course I learned so much about ingredient research and emulsifiers and preservation systems. and how do you create skincare that like isn't gonna go moldy and isn't gonna to poison people's skin and all of those sorts of things None of that For me, it really gave me enough information to be dangerous And I knew it, right? Because you can't learn skincare formulation in two years and be an expert. And so that led me on a search to find the best cosmetic chemist in the country and say, okay, this is what I want. These are all the ingredients that I want in it And these are all the ingredients that I will absolutely not tolerate. So the FDA regulations for ingredients in the United States are pretty lax compared to the EU, which bans well over a thousand ingredients And so I said, we are going to formulate for EU standards from the beginning. And this is what I mean, this is what's coming down, I feel like has been made popular on the news by like RFK about taking crap out of our foods. Right, whichich probably isn't a bad idea. So it's like the same thing with the crap out of our out of our products. Correct. Yeah. It shouldn't necessarily be there in the first place. And a lot of that stuff is very cheap or easily accessible or it's filler. It's not really necessarily doing anything to help our skin. So there's no reason to have it. Saner stuff is what be legal in Europe. Yes. Yeah which took extra time to formulate for. And so I worked for years with cosmetic chemists trying to get it just right. I wanted a specific texture And it also had to be fragrance free. Most people don't understand that A lot of skincare's fragrance is because those ingredients smell horrible So that fragrance in there is not only disrupting your barrier function. It's certainly not contributing to it, but that it's also covering up something that smells errible So to be able to formulate No fragrance is its own challenge And then there's also a difference between fragrance free and unscented Have you heard of this? No. It's confusing, right? Well it's unsented. There's no fragrance, right?? No. Unscented just means There's necessarily no detectable fragrance that our ingredients didn't smell so bad. We had to put fragrance in there. That's what it is. We put a fragrance in there to cover up the horrible smelling ingredients. It's just called unscented But if it's just fragrance free, then it's just we used stuff that may or may not have been quality, but it didn't sting Correct. So to create something that's fragrance free so that open it and smell it. And it is not horrible is a much harder challenge, but that's what we did Yeah That's amazing. So how long this gets into like the building of your brand, but how long did it take to go from like There's a problem here. I don't have what I need to put on my skin. I'm tired of buying all this. T, I'm a menopause coach and an organic sk skin carere formulator. care formulator. I became a trained aromotherapist. because I was like, I'm going to use all these essential oils and they're going to be so great for our skin and soothing our essential nervous system only to realize that essential oils can actually be dermal allergens So we're trying to help this very sensitive skin. And I thought essential oils actually aren't necessarily helping. So it took me four and a half years. It was I was gonna say how have you done all that? Like how know did it not take you fifteen years to do all that? but it only took you four and a half years You know, as pi menopaus and women don't sleep very well, yeah It was just up at night. I would get up at like four in the morning because I just couldn't sleep and I would just work. Yeah. That's awesome though. And I mean Yeah, it would be interesting to like sit someone from L'orereal or wherever down and ask them like how did they go through all these same processes? I mean, it would be interesting to know that answer. I would welcome the conversation. If anybody can hook me up with somebody at L'real, please. If anyone from L'orereal is listening, doesn't L'real owns I think skin cuticals, donon't they? I don't know off the top of my head. Or skin better. I feel like they own one of those. I only know this because my mother in law used to work at the L'real like sample stores. or whatever. and they sold those products. I want to say skin better Anyways, people from Lorereal know some things and absolutely. Yes. So I would love to hear though they had gone through all of these processes it I don't know. know I don't work for Loreal. Yeah I can't say, but Moower, like how would you go through all these processes and only charge ten dollars ten for your skincare? I mean it does you would It does make you understand why quality skincare is also expensive Yes. And I think a lot of women don't understand that that to go through all that testing to really make sure that it's clean and it's safe. and it's not. Like someone was sitting up in their bedroom at four o'clock in the morning making sure that it was safe to go on your skin and it didn't smell bad And it didn't smell bad. and it was not an undercre disruptor And I would go through each ingredient with a fine tooth conb. And I would look to see if there were clinical trials fit behind any of the ingredients. And I would look to see where they were in the inky list to make sure that there were accepted ingredients to use internationally. And I would check to see all the notes are ridiculous that I have that it It' so awes because I was like, how do I make sure that it's safe? And then all of the active botanicals that I chose also had clinical trial data behind the individual Yeah. ingredient And then when we combined those ingredients into our product, then we also ran clinical trials. So tested, tested test to make sure it works. Well, and I guess just tell us like about phOosis because I know I mean, people are hearing this and they're like Where is phOis? Where can I buy phOis? What kind of product? I know we've talked about that you have an oil and you have a cream, but like Are those the only two? Are there gonna to be more? There is definitely more. It's so exciting. Yeah.. So the next product that we have coming out is a radiant serum. And so it's a hyaluronic acid based serum. so that is really great for plumping and firming skin, especially because the skin is so dry, it needs some of that helps to target that hyperpigmentation, those agge spots that women see on their skin. so it fades existing spots and then it also helps prevent new spots from forming. Yes, the spots are a problem. The spots are a problem. They're the one thing that really can help like age the look of skin, right? Like if you look at young women in their twenties, their skin is so Clear No my daughter's skin. Right just too. Yes. And Also I didn't know this until just recently because like I'm not good at getting tan anymore. I'm not good at like sitting in the sun. That's probably land. Yeah. I get suns spots now. so I try to stay out of the sun and cover up and wear all the SPF and all things, but like sometimes you just w to have tan. I'm not gonna lay in tanning bed, obviously. So I'm like, I got to spray tan Well spray tan makes your age spotss darker. It like attracts to them. Yes. So like, I mean, these age spots are a whole situation. So if we could, yeah, figure out how Yes to make those go away. So we got a product coming our next one coming to market. And then beyond that we have an oil cleanser because women do not need to be washing their face with soap Because it's already so dry, why do you want to further strip it? So when you're younger, you do want those more aggressive cleansers, right? Because we're worried about acne. But as we get older and those oil receptors are not making as much oil, or those oil glands are not making as much oil, you don't want to be stripping it with a very aggressive cleanser Yeah But you can only buy phOosis, I mean from your website from the website right now. Yeah, yeah. Yeah like not on Amazon. Am. We're having problems with our Amazon store right now. So that's a whole other wild thing that when you're an entrepreneur, youd have to do everything yourself. And so sometimes you run into problems. So our Amazon store is unfortunately shut down right now, not through any fault of my own. So we're working taking that back up. But yah, you can buy foosis. com p siS. com Okay and on Amazon Yeah, that's awesome. I also feel like you should just go stand in Sephora and be like, excuse me. But I am a skin chemist and I've done all this stuff and what are you buying and why are you buying that? You should be buying this instead. Yeah, exactly I love it. Okay. And then you have to tell us about Oprah's favorite things because okay, I had to look into this a little bit. Oprah's Daily Inaugural Menopause O Awards in twenty twenty five awarded Posis calm deep hydration restorative cream that you have, the one that like in the little canister that is the cream, O Best night cream B ny Green I love it. And so I had to like dig into this that Oprah uses these awards to daily like highlight, She highlighted the use of red algae and ceramides and noted that it was rich and deeply hydrating without feeling greasy. And that is so true. It does it does not feels like very crereamy and can tell it's my shreding because it's not greasy because I amm big on like the grease thing myig grasy days. but and she said that made it particularly appealing for menopausal skin. The Oprah Daily Midlife Beauty O Awards are awarded recognizing products specifically chosen for women in midlife, particularly those experiencing periimenopause and menopause. And it has a panel of dermatologists, menopause experts, beauty editors, and women's health advocates. and they evaluate products for concerns common during this stage of life such as dryness, collen and loss, sensitivity thinning and barrier dysfunction. So I mean It's like Mary Claire Haber. No one disagrees with her and no one's gonna to disagree with Oprah. No. So yeah. I mean, so that's amazing. Like how did Oprah find posis? It was really cool quuite a shock how we even won the award. Yeah. But Beauty editors are a really tight knit group of people and it really comes down to your network and who knows? I work with this wonderful PR agent here in town at who has worked in the skincare industry for decades. Yeah. And so we together put together a huge PR trip And we went to New York and we met with every major beauty editor for every publication, every online Uh u digital Yeah. I sorry. And so I didn't even know that the awards were a thing But I was put in contact with one of those editors for the women at Oprah. and they were so impressed with the story and they were so impressed with the product And just as one woman who was willing to take our entire anti aging skincare. it is impressive. I agree. you, Oprah, editor We were, you know, we're a challenge bra. We're like, Hey, there's got to be something better for women. and we don't have to settle for this anti aging stuff, right? Yeah. And so they were so impressed by that that they decided to give us a chance and give us the award, which was just unheard of. Little no tell you on the spot or did they? No, no, no, I didn't even know that the words existed when I met with this editor.. I didn't even know that was a thing. So it was a complete shock when I got an email five months later By the way you was And you're like, what? I what happened? because they you know They can choose any brand that they want Right? The big brands, the well known brands, the ones that are trending And we had just launched with our first products. So we were new, new, new. And so you think Oprah uses phosos? I would love to think that she does. I think yeah, she probably does I mean, why wouldn't she? Why wouldn't she? Yeah U So where were you? You were just checking your email just random like normal Tuesday and I was at lunch actually at An Atha's. Oh. And so I had just randomly stopped to check my email at the end of lunch and got the email and just teared up. I was speechless. It was a huge, tremendous moment me because I've been working so hard and you work a bit in a vacuum as an entrepreneur, right? Like just head down and like keep going, keep going, keep going. And so to have somebody really highlight it and say, yes, this is a thing that is much needed and it's fabulous. And then did they? I mean, I don't I don't ever see the Oprah show. I feel like it comes on at odd times when I'm at work, maybe I don't know, I'musle at work. Yeah. So there was not a show that I am aware of that was actually highlighted or like on her website Is our site Yeahah And then did your sales blow up? Of course after yeah, of course so. Yes. I mean, how could they not? Yeah. So that was also really exciting. Yeah. Or is it like a problem from like production standpoint? likeike, oh, shoot, I didn't know this many people were going to buy this. We need a bunch more of it We were okay in that situation. But yes, that absolutely can happen if you v algae. But there's right. Right. Because most people don't understand, it can take us between four and six months to do a production run Yeah, four in six months. And so like for our last production run, that one of the manufacturers sent the wrong ingredient from Italy So we had waited over three weeks for the ingredient And then it got caught in customs. And then by the time it showed up, it was the wrong one. So that moved us back So yeah, it takes a long time to make a production. So you have to, you know forecast and be aware of that Yeah. So that I feel like these are questions like that they would that you hear them talk about on Shark Tank. L these people got these massive orders, but we haven't been able to fill them yet or these kinds of things. So I heard from I heard from my friend, Dr. Harnsberurger that you might have a shark tank connection. Yes, I might have a shark tank connection. and unfortunately per the rules of shark tank, you can't speak about it. Oh. So I'm actually not able to come An We talk about Mark Cuban all the time because of the cost plus pharmacy. So I feel like we should have an in and I feel like I feel like she needs to go on shark tank. If anyone cares what hump D hormes has. Exactly right. Yeah. I think for me the exciting part about the whole sharkcade experience is that They're willing to look at a menopauszle brand. What does that mean for menopauszle women? No I mean, I don't even know who are the shhark Tank people now, but who was the she's the real estate agent Barbara Garbrea. Yes. I mean, Barbara it seems like would be yes. a good And then Laurie. I mean, I don't know how Lurie Luri's beautiful so she's clearly doing something right with her both of them are clearly doing something right with their skin. Yes. Yeah. So I think they need to know about phhosis. I mean can men use phhosis? Can we give aren't Cuban? They can't actually. I mean, there's no hormones in it. so there's nothing in it that Mis wonderful need. He needs some postes, doesn't? He needs some post. need it for you know, you can use it in the top of your head. I know. right Yeah, so there's nothing in it that would preclude a man from using it. No. and interestingly enough, my daughter's boyfriend has a very, very dry skin. Yes. Where you like you use this? He loves it Lie? Yes. He loves it. he's twenty. He probably doesn't want to tell any of his. He doesn't, so I'm not gonna to say his name, but yeah he's very sweet, but I love that Um Well, and I think like What I would say maybe is the biggest thing you have learned from this process? I think for me is that I had no idea how much I was gonna to have to learn about so many different things And you know, from marketing to web design, to user experience, to SEO, to email campaigns, to social media, to all these things that you have to do. And at every turn You're going to run into problems and you're not going to know how to solve them. And so what is your resilience and your capacity to keep going, to keep finding the answers? Because things are going to go wrong Things are going to take much longer than you think and everything is going to cost more money than you planned for So you have to plan for all of that and then somehow maintain your mental health Because you're going to be working all the time. Yeah. I mean, this is this is podcast is much smaller scale than like I'm gonna to invent an entire product and scientifically test it and launch it and get ingredients. I mean, we're nowhere near that kind of scale. I mean, we're like we're gonna to order some microphones off Amazon and record ourselves talking about some stuff U, but that has been I mean, so I commend you because like I wouldn't say I'm like an entrepreneur, but I mean, we did do something that is not being done. as a gynecologist in this area, and that's been hard and we have run into problems. Yes. sameame with me. I keep running into problems. No very large retailer is interested because they're like, you haven't been on the market long enough or you know, whatever, they're rationationales, they don't always tell you. So it's like trying to get women to understand that you are investing in your skin and there's a reason that this costs the price that it does because it's so tested, it's so safe. It does work and that these two products replace six That's right. Yeah. that's right. And so yeah, you are always going to get what you pay for in the way you do, I think. And then and then you're like, well, I just keep going back to, well, it's not as much as C Flic. It's not as much as that Yes. And you're saying that people that have used really expensive brands and then they try My products they go Wow, you should have charged more for this. Yeah Yeah Well, and I'm sure as you are just trying to break into the trying to market Yes, you can't outprice yourself, but Yeah, at some point, you will probably bring that demand I think it's fun to end with some fast fire questions just like right off the right off the bat answers. So What do you think is the most underrated skincare ingredient? A Setle hexopeptidate That's the one I was talking about earlier that helps. I didn't call it by the name. I think I got confused and called an LgGe extract, but you know, in paramenopausm, my brain fog is yeah. My brain fog is for real, but that's the one that helps. Okay sayay it again. acetyl hexa peptide We And so you can also find that under the trade name Ajaline Okay, and that helps your mortar? No, those are the paramides. Okay. The acetyl hexappeptide A is the one that helps soften muscle contractions over time. Oh, o like the Botoxicnder. Yeahah I want that redient you're using it. Oh good, good. Okay. Well, I mean, you know, that's the problem is you look on the back of these boxes and there's like eight miles long of all the words you don't know. right But now we do. Okay. and the most overrated skincare trends. I've got two of them right now Double cleansing I think is so awful for women in their fifties. justust wash all your barrier and all just moisture right off. And then because you will know if your skin feels really tight after you've washed it There's more aggressive of a cleanser than you needed. And then also the slugging or the glugging, like where you're just coating your face in vaseline. R. I don't think that's so great either. Right I didn't know people still did that. I thought that was just my grandma People still dead. okay people still dead U I feel like we talked a lot about this, but Botox or skincare first. I'm gonna say skincare first, like address the foundation. Y. address the foundation. And then if you say in the Botoxk at the Botox. Yeah Yeah. I mean, yeah, I don't think there's anything wrong with Botox, but' don't just paint over your pet hair on onn the baseboards. Figs the foundation One thing every menopausal woman should do for their skin, barrier repair, one hundred percent barrier repair. strengthening, you know, you're strengthening your muscles and your bones Why are you not strengthening your skin Yeah, because you're losing thirty percent of your collagen in the first five years of menopaods, which you don't get to choose. likeike, well, I'm just not going to go through menopause then. I'll just keep that thirty percent. Nope, Nope. You're gonna to go through everybody Yeah going through it. I mean, this is not optional. Unfortunately not optional Yeah. I mean, you're coming out with some more that sound like that they might be on the list too, but your favorite phosis product By far the callalm dehydration Restorative cream. Yeah. Yes.. There was so much time and energy put into making that something really special and unique and effective Yeah, I mean, I I love both of them. I've been using both of your products that are out right now and I love both of them, but the cream is very nice. I've said it. It just feels like so smooth and kind of not greasy, but milky in a way.' so nice. And it's like your baby. It is. But you don't have the face oil because I think so many women don't understand Why would I put a face oil? Yeah I think like face oil is like heavy or Yeah. But this one is really has a different texture, I think. Yeah.'s like It's not. So I have used like the Sa forerulic that we've been talking about. I've used that. I've used cheap vitamin C for ten dollars. I mean, because you're like, what the heck, I'm just gonna try themem all. I mean, I've used lots of face oils and some of them feel oily L your makeup goes over them ' it's oily. This feels more, I mean, it is still an oil. I don't mean to sound this bad, but it feels more watery, which is a good thing. It's because it's less oily feeling, but it is still moisturizing Yes. and that I think women don't understand as like thinner. Yes. I call the featherweight oil. Yes, so that it does sink down into your skin somewhat. It's still going to be protective. It's still going to help with transpodural water loss, but like you're not going to look like you've been sweating all day long because it mix this beautifully with foundation but it's really good for facial massage. It's also really good for your cuticles. I use it in my hair for my flyaway hairs, you know, but like it's so potent that you only need like one or two drops for your entire face. You just And the bottle is big, I will say. Yes. From comparing it to other like companies and stuff. I mean bottle I was like, Oh, this is a good size. It's gonna last you a. Yeah. It's gonna last you a while. I could see that bottle probably lasts in at least six months. Most women go somewhere between six to ten months per bottle. Yeah. I could see that because was it was bigger than I expected And I think also is that the number one ingredient in that product is Jjoba oil. which most closely mimics our own skin sebum So your skin really recognizes this product is something that is natural and I mean, listen, I've come a long way since the Nogema and theirsle pads and so U, but and and I know I've You know, the acne prone person is probably like, I not an oil on my skin. I have not broken out. I mean, I've been using it since you gave them to me like maybe three, three weeks ago or something. and I have not broken out. and your skin looks fabulous do I do have makeup on, but not a lot. I mean, I just have like my powder, my kind of foundation powder stuff, but I mean, I have not had any different you know, zits or whatever that I wouldn't have had before since I've been using this. Okay. And can you feel the cooling extract when you put it on your skin? Okay. S feels nice. And especially now that it's summer, like if you get too much sun, it feels really nice. Yes nice I love it. So we talked about what's next for phosis. We've got a hyaluronic acid. a hyaluronic acid. We have two hyaluronic acid bas serums. and one of them is a phytore retinol. So it's using a plant based retinol like ingredient. Okay. One of them is bacuchcio that we're using, which is trending really well to be as effective as a retinol. and then we've got some other microlgy extracts in there.. And then we also have the radiance vitaminsir that I spoke about earlier, Th we've got an oil cleanser and then we have this fabulous toner en don't understand the need for tonerurt. One you to wear a toner underneath a hyaluronic acid based serum should not put HA serums on dry skin. Okay because it will actually pull the moisture from your skin and make your skin look a little bit worse So you want to apply those on damp skin so that it cs the moisture from the dampness. understood a toner. really? Well, typically a toner is used that if you have stripped your skin from overwashing it, then you've disrupted the pH because soap has a different pH of what your skin is And so a toner typically back in the day would have helped reset the pH of your skin. to avoid further disruptions So today, I think a toner is. absolutely important for those HA serums. They can also be part of an effective cleansing routine. So if you did your oil cleanser because those are less aggressive cleansers, if you needed a little bit more, you could do a toner after that and wipe it off. But this toner has it's a peppermint orange hydrossol. So it's the it's not the essential oil part. it's the leftover water from the distillation process. So it's very subtly scented, but it doesn't have the same level of dermal allergens in it. so it's safe for sensitive skin. And so it's a nice cooling thing, especially for us women perariimenopause and menopause get our hot flashes. So you can just miss it when you're feeling a little bit warm. This is amazing. I mean You are so smart being so driven and I mean, have come up with a solution and have obviously killed it on the way like with Oprah and potentially Sark Tank and all the things. So I can't wait. I mean, if it is really on Shark Tank, I like literally want to go to that the cher that posters of the eror though when they video it You literally want to be there. But I think one of the biggest takeaways from our conversation is that the changes women experience in their skin during perimenopause and menopause are real. They are biologically driven and they are not simply a matter of like Well this is what my skin has to look like when I get older You know? No, absolutely not. People think like Oh I'm just old. I'm gonna have wrinkling, dull dry skin. and that's not true. You don't have to Yeah. I mean, you are gonna to get older. That's gonna to happen. and biologically your estrogen is going to decline and you are going to like lose, you know, things in your skin that keep it moisturized and have a barrier. We're going lose our mortar. We're going I mean, all of those things are going to happen. but We don't have to just like sit back and let it happen. and No, because it's not necessarily a question of more moisturizer It's very much about the right moisturizer, but we know that we can replenish hydration and we can restore the glowbe to menopausal skin. I love it. So hormonone shifts affect collagen production, hydration, elasticity, and the skin barrier itself, which means our skin needs often change right along with our hormones. So can't keep using your nogxema all your Benzyl peroxide, you gott to change that plan just like you're changing your hormone plan. I mean, you've probably never thought about taking biodenical progesterone Either. R Yeah. And I'm you're changing everything else. the time to change yourself. You've never thought about like as the PCOS girl, I'm going to take testosterone. L what is happening? Like I've been fighting testosterone my whole life. I've been told I had too much of that right, you know. So lots of things are just changing. I think we just have to lean in. we can't fight it. We have to lean in and learn to how to do that better. So today we learned that caring for menopausal skin isn't just about chasing youth and saying that that we want to be younger or it's better to be younger or have younger looking skin. It's about supporting our skin health and kind of keeping that moat healthy. I loved hearing the story behind Posis and your journey from identifying what wasn't there and what we currently have to creating this award winning brand, recognized by Opra I mean, like it's just so cool that you we as people are capable of doing that. Gas stop Especially I think of that being like L'orereal, the big corporation. Of course they're capable of doing that. They're a giant multib billion dollar company, but like You right here in Lroock, right capable of doing that. And that's so cool. so. It's inspiring to see innovation focused specifically on women in midlife. Obviously, that's my passion. And that's a group that's overlooked in both medicine. We've talked about that at Nauseum and it's overlooked And skinca as well. I mean, people are just trying to force us to be twenty five forever. And I don't want that. It ain't gonna happen. even if we did want it, it ain't gonna happen. So to our listeners, remember that healthy aging isn't about perfection, it's about understanding your body, making informed choices and finding tools or products that help you feel your best at every stage of life So Please follow along with us on social media. We are on Instagram, Facebook YouTube. and then Susan and Phosis are on Instagram. Yeah, so we're at we've got two channels we've caught phOis. skincare for the phOis line and then I off my also channel suuper Susan Campbell, which is a bit of a joke, but Yes, I love it. So follow us both, email us your questions Hump Day hormones at gmail. com Com.