Looking Ahead to the Election

I like how you bring your wife here to try to get me to be nice. That's it. I know. That was the I mean we had we worked on that speech for you know the last better part of the last week. Sadly it's not gonna work. Unbelievable . Hi everyone from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. This is on with Kara Swisher and I,'m Kara Swisher. My guest today is California Governor Gavin Newsom. He's on the short list of Democrats expected to run for president in 2028, and he's arguably the front runner will probably be a very crowded field, at least at this point. While Newsom hasn't made his presidential ambitions officially yet, he's kind of telegraphing it all the time, and he's out with a new memoir that definitely makes it seem like he's running. He is running. Man in a hurry, and the promotional tour has him conveniently passing through some major swing states and early primary states like Georgia and South Carolina. But Newsom's tour and book have gotten mixed reviews, and the criticisms speak to something Newsom has grappled with in his political life. Is he the son of a single mom who held down three jobs to support her kids or the son of a top confident to one of the richest families in the world? Is he the man who led the California resistance during President Trump's first term, or the one who sat down with Steve Bannon for an episode of his podcast in the early days of Trump's second term. Interesting and complex. And I think it'll be really interesting to see how the public reacts to him. He's been very good about pressing back at President Trump. What he did around gay marriage was incredibly heroic. At the same time, some people think he's a little too malleable to whatever it takes to win, and he's too ambitious. There's all kinds of things around Gavin Newsome, but it's okay to have a complex person running for president. It's probably a good thing. All right, let's get to my conversation with Gavin Newsom. Our expert question comes from Jennifer Welch, who co-hosts the progressive politics podcast I've had it. This conversation was taped in front of a live audience this past Saturday at San Francisco's Golden Gate Theater. Don't go anywh ere. Once upon a mundane morning, Barb's Day got busy without warning. A realtor in need of an open house sign. No, 50 of them. And designed before nine. My head hurts. Any mighty tools to help with this plight? Aha! Barb made her move. She opened Kelna and got in the groove. Both creating Canva Sheets. Create 50 signs fit for suburban streets. Done in a click, all complete. Sweet. Now imagine what your dreams can become when you put imagination to work at canva.com. Once upon a dismal day, Bob's ice cream van looked gloomy and gray. Although he had big ambitions, his socials lacked creative vision. That bad. Maybe vampid epitaph? I have an idea. Bob launched Canva and got into gear. Create the video in the vampire team and make it the funniest amen. It went viral. Bob's business revived off. Now imagine what your dreams can become. When you put imagination to work at canva.com. When you let aero truffle bubbles melt, everything takes on a creamy, delicious, chocolatey glow. Like that pile of laundry. You didn't forget to fold it. No, it's a new trend. Wrinkled chic. Feel the arrow bubbles melt. It's mind bubbling. It is oh. Gavin Newsom, thanks for coming on on. Uh, there's lots to talk about. This is the last year's governor. You've got plans for what's next. Um, so welcome Gavin Newsom, Governor Newsom. Thank you, thank you. Thank you everybody for being here. Thank you. All right, we're gonna start with your new memoir, Young Man in a Hurry. Um good a title. Excellent title. But one of the things that I'm I mean, you like the title, honestly? What do you think I thought you could have smiled more on the cover, but I'm teasing. I always tease men about that. And do you ever were you able to pick up why it's called Young Man or Yes why don't you tell people I did go ahead no well I mean well we can let's get into that in a moment but it is interesting that the actual title comes from the Economist magazine that did uh what I could objectively describe as a bit of a hit piece on me. Um and said I was running Gavin Newsom wants to be governor of California uh and then talked about this young man in a hurry. And I love the way they described it. And in so many ways um, I connected with it not as uh a critique, an external critique, but a self-critique, the more that I absorbed and looked back uh when I had a chance to reread the article about the it is a trope. It is a trope of a young man like desperate to like to either come out to California or whatever. Yeah. No, I mean look, the whole book, and I you know I appreciate the way Jen described it, it it's not a politician's book. If you came to get a book about politics, 10-point plan, how to, you know, restore the American dreamer, that's not what this is about. It's a book that is you know really scrutinizes who I am, not sanitizes it. Turtle really sort of break through and challenged my own assumptions of myself, my family, uh, my relationship to uh a lot of issues that all of us here have a very intimate relationship to. And and I tried to just sort of break the core of who I was and stress test it in a way that ultimately led me to a subtitle called a memoir of discovery. In the process of writing this, I learned about my parents, I learned about my grandparents, I and I learned about myself uh in a way that uh has you know really shifted my mindset and radically altered my world. Yeah my myself, my relationship to my job as an elected official, uh how I put a mask on, how I had a pose growing up, how I tried to become someone I wasn't, um how my face started to grow into the mask. Uh how, you know, I you know show showed up even as a kid. I mean I was wearing suits to high school. It doesn't surprise you. Uh but you know it's all in an effort to overcompensate. And so it's really a journey. I I it's about insecurity, it's about anxiety, it's about that insecurity anxiety that's still with me today. Um it's about constantly becoming a better person, a memoir at first, right? Anne Goddard shifted it. It was more of a woman. Yeah, the just very briefly of the h history of this, and God bless Ann, she literally passed on the day of the publication. And anyone who knows in the book world, she's a rock star. She's the Kara Swisher of publishing in so many ways. And she's tough beyond words. And so I I submitted the book, and originally it was the first year I was in office, and she asked, be interesting. She said, talk about Trump at the time. Trump 1.0 was was still president, uh, I was governor, and then COVI D hit. And ultimately I worked through the process of finishing the book about my first four years. And it was relationship to uh uh Trump and was relationship to the Biden campaign and obviously to a lot of the challenges, trovials in the state of California. I submitted the book, I'll never forget on Zoom, and bated breath, and I was absolutely convinced that if there was gonna be a critique, I was really proud of it, that the critique would be this one chapter talking about my mother and my dad. And I remember she said, well, and you could just feel she was about to. I said, I'm happy to take out that chapter. And she cuts me out. She says, that's the only good one. I thought, Jesus. She says, that's the book I want. She said, I thought I knew you. And she said the reason I did this is, you know, I thought I knew you. And I don't, I don't think I know you as well as I know. She thought I was some pampered prince trust fund kid. And she had no idea of you know that 19-year-old as Jen described. Right. So it became a memoir when it wasn't Yeah, and so then I had to go back and write a whole nother book. Uh and the book became that's I mean when I talk about this being a memoir of discovery when you have to go back and you you have to go back much deeper and you've got to understand you know things that you know that you can't sanitize in a one chapter bio of your entire life. And that uh it's become just a it's a r it's been a revelatory process for me. It had a feel of Obama's book like that. That was sort of a version of that. No, and uh you know and of impossible not to l have loved that book. Of course at the time no one Which was not an unsimilar story. So um one in in the beginning of the book, you were talking about the gold rush. You noted there's ne we've never really rid ourselves of the its voracious impulse. Nice, nice pair of words together there. Um I like to start you asking what that meant, and also how that manifests today and in your own ambitions. Well it's interesting. I uh when I first became governor, I got sworn in and and uh I was with a Native American community doing the first official apology uh in the state of California for uh the genocide against uh Native American people in our state. And I quoted the first the first govern or, Barnett, 18, I think it was I believe his first state of the state was in 1853, and he literally talked about the war of extermin ation. And they talked about bounties for scalps. And it was a celebrated speech at the time. And you know, the book opens up with me sitting near the American River, a river that was very familiar to me in my youth because I was connected with my father, who was a fierce environmentalist. And one connection I did have with my father uh when I was young was episodic. He had left us uh when I was relatively young. Uh he had run for San Francisco Supervisor, lost, ran for state senate and lost, and I didn't know and thank God his oral history was not lost. We found at the Bancroft Library he talked about those two races. He never talked to me about those two races. And it said that he was broke and broke in. And that's the reason he left. He needed to change the scenery and went up to Lake Tahoe and left my mom with two young kids. Again, neither of them ever talked about why they got divorced. But I begin the book reflecting on the American River, our connection to Eureka. Try to paint a picture of this state. Voraciousness. Yeah. It's an unusual thing to pick at the beginning of your own. Because I we have voracious appetites. Consumption, over consumption, the sort of an uncuousness in in so many ways, ex Extratraction.ctions, water of course marks so much of the consideration and consciousness around. Yeah, they are. I was of course describing the state, not my state of being, but the state's sort of history in relationship. Go west, young man, go west. This notion of California being a state of dreamers, of doers, of entrepreneurs. But so much of our politics is defined by water policy, defined by consumption, some cases over consumption, defined by scarcity, not just abundance, and so this notion of voraciousness. Yeah, describing that slide. So I'm curious, so what prompted you to write the book aside from the obvious reasons of running for president? Um, let me say We're we're not gonna be paying we're not gonna be playing that game that they like to do on CNN. Um now reviews reviews are mixed. Have you read the reviews? I literally have not. Oh good. I can do that for you. Okay, God bless . These are kind of interesting. They just can't give you I think it's beautifully written, I have to say. I liked it a lot. But um he can be both irritatingly slick and refreshingly resolute. That was one of them. That was about the book or me. You. Well, the book. You in the it's your memoir. It is you. Um this one I liked. It's like hillbilly elegy, but for middle class alcoholics in the Bay Area with close ties to patrole magnets. You know, it's no I don't know. That was a joke. He' s a good question We'll get to him in a minute. Um so so what was what what what prompted you to do that? Do you feel like you had to write a book? Oh the opposite. I was writing a book about something else and as I just described. And so that was the journey. And and you know look, I uh this book you know it's dedicated to my kids so they can continue the story. And the great thing is, you know, you don't you know to like it, you don't have to like me, but I finally I was able to tell my story and give you my perspective. I I I stress tested my own assumptions and tried to crack open, go a little bit deeper. And I don't often see that. Maybe these reviewers do in other political books. And and I just I did it, you know, I didn't do it for the third thing. I didn't do it for the reviews. I didn't do it for the sales. I did it because I wish my parents had done something like this. I didn't know about my mom's relationship to what Jen was introducing a moment ago. The reason she didn't want me to run in so many ways is shaped by the fact that her marriage ended, because my father's ambitions in politics. She never told me. I didn't understand. I always resented her for not wanting me to be in politics, never fully understanding that. I didn't understand her own struggles. You know, she you know there's a scene in the book where she's as a young girl is thrown against the fireplace by her father with a g un to her head and her sister's head. Uh my grandfather threatening to kill my mom and her sister. My my grandfather eventually committed suicide. He was a prisoner of war. I didn't understand how broken he became after that experience. I didn't understand uh my grandmother's parents and how they were part of the whole red scare, uh how close my great grandfather was to Oppenheimer and the Bay Area. Um we found all these old FBI files. And so the reason I wrote it is because it started to reveal itself. It wrote itself in all of these scores. Because your last book was more wonky, more. Yeah, the last book was a policy book. This is not a policy book. And it's not about me. It's about the people that shaped me. It's about it's a love letter to my mom. It's a love letter to single moms that are out there struggling everyy single da with kids. It's you know and and it's it's a messy story. It's it's life. And so I I did not write this to sanitize anything. I didn't want to explain anything away. I just, you know, it's just like let it go. And I, you know, I hope and maybe to the extent one sec just on this, because I think it's important. I hope you've seen in my politics generally this last year. I I'm I'm hardly being timid, if you if you've seen my social media. Yeah. I just, I'm on the other side, honestly. And so the book's a reflection of that. My politics. And it's just, it's for the first time in my life I'm taking a deep breath. So just for people that know you're different. He was also close confident to one of the wealthiest families in the world, the Gedys. Um, and even though you weren't wealthy, you grew up around that wealth because of that. Um, talk about how that shaped your worldview as a kid and moving between these two worlds. One of the things you've long complained about is this Prince Gavin label that you get. You talk about it a lot in the book and I don't know if it reinforces it, but you you discuss it. Yeah, I talk about how I played into it. Yeah. I talk about how I reinforced it through my own actions, how complicit I am. So talk a little bit about that because what is what you're called in the book supposedly privileged upbringing, right? This this image. Well, I I I'd be doing a disservice to my mom, who had two, three jobs quite literally almost her entire life up until the end when she was working uh for me, ironically, in the small businesses I have. And uh, you know, the reason we are foster family in many respects was just my mom's grit hard work just making ends we we had we had people living in the house strangers she lived in the uh in in the living room for a good part of our life we kind of raised ourselves and sort of latchke kids in the language and vernacular of the past. And and it was just, you know, the struggle she had raising us and the lack of support that I have I felt that I ever provided her. I talk about Hillary being the rock and being the rock star. And and I relate that in a in a in part of this book. You know, she died about twenty years ago and and she died in this respect. Let me describe it. I pick up get to the office and I get a voice message and it says, Hi honey, it's your mom. Um and I will be around through next Thursday. That will be the last day of my life. If you're interested, you may want to drop by before then. Uh which is a hell of a voicemail. Um I did what anyone would do. I immediately called my sister and like what's going on And she read me the right act. Said, you know what's going on is you're not paying attention. You're just some young, you're just focused on yourself. You're grinding away, doing your thing, you're not paying attention to your mom. My mom's breast cancer had come back. I'd frankly taken it for granted that it, you know, she'll be fine the second time. Sure. And so she did an assisted suicide. And and it was illegal at the time, which is interesting. And by the way, pretty profound for me. And I've I've struggled with it all my life. I mean, we you know, the family was there together, everyone said their goodbyes. I had spent the you know a few days with her before. She was struggling in deep pain. We had a courageous doctor who was willing to lose his license to support this. And my responsibility was just to give her two pills before the doctor came, just to relax her a little bit before he did the actual cocktail. And she was in there and she had a book and she really waited for just Hillary and I to be there as the last people with her. And you know I want to talk with my sister right here, a little out of school, but it was very intense as the doctor left and it was a process that unfolded over five, ten minutes. And my mother coming in and out of state talking about our childhood, looking at these photos, and Hillary looked at me and I looked at her, I said, it's okay. And we were both crying, and she just ran out. And then I was sort of stuck, and I didn't know if I should leave. I didn't know what to do. And I was with her for those last minutes. And there was no, you know, the credits didn't roll. It wasn't some wonderful romantic ending. It was deep breaths and struggle. And I remember holding her hand and then I remember putting my my head down on her chest for 10 minutes, just crying, and saying things to her that I didn't have the guts to say five minutes before when she was alive, and feeling tremendous shame. And I struggled with that for years ye andars ye andars. And it's only through the pro I seriously, through the process of writing this, that again I started to let it go. To me, she's the center character in the book. She's the center character. And she's, you know, and that's what Jen described is the grit and and and the rock and the relationship. And you recall when she told you, quote, it's okay to be average when you were struggling with dyslexia too. There was a lot of hard. Well the big part of the book as well is is talking about yeah something it's familiar and I met someone in the back and thank you. Uh this y beautiful young girl who said thank me for being honest about my learning disability because she's struggling with it as well. And and a big part of this book is that relationship to my o wn um academic challenges, my own insecurity that that marks, my own anxiety, and the fact that I'm still that guy. You don't over you know you don't it doesn't go away. You have to sort of work around it. It's the reason you know I talk about not reading speeches, because it's not because I don't want to have someone write a speech and then I'll look at the paper and read it. It's that I can't. Um could do teleprompters that's it and that's not easy and I can't stand doing them. And so it's m you know, it's that's the guy in the back, that's the guy with the sweaty hands and, you know, the pounding heartbeat. But it's also the heart of the story with my mom because I never appreciated how hard it was for her to have to raise a kid that was always trying to quit, that literally was running out of schools. I talk a lot about that being faking, being sick, going to school to school to school. That's why we ended up in Marin, because I bounced around schools in San Francisco and she couldn't take it anymore. And and the relationship that I had with my own kids that were struggling with reading and I it was like a moment you're like, oh God, it wasn't just about me. It's about my mom and not to have her back where I can just thank her for all those sacrifices and how hard that was. So I hated her to your point when she said it's okay to be average. Yeah. And it took 15 years until I sat there with my kids struggling and realized, wait a second, she was just saying it's okay to be you. And in her own exhaustion, it was just like you don't have to be someone else. And so again, this notion just let it go and this cathartic nature of this whole process of It's too late. Um but your your father's dream of course was to be a politician s a as you mentioned. Um how did you reconcile these competing dreams your parents had for you? Because and you fell into your dad's footsteps in many ways. I'll never forget the day the recall qualified. I was like, mom was right, you know. Yeah. And there's plenty of those moments. I mean, this is, you know, my God. I mean this is it's been a hell of a a run here and and by the way, uh I can't believe it's taken me this long. Um all because of one person who's sitting here today, Willie Brown. Uh Willie is literally the reas on I'm sitting up here today. Period, full stop. Would not have happened without him. And uh, you know, we could talk. There's some funny stories, I think, about getting schooled in a different way by Willie Brown about how politics works. But uh yeah, no, I've I I've I've I've always tried to reconcile this. My mom just wanted me be happ y. And she struggled with that all her life. She self-medicated and you know I talk about jugs of safe way wine. She, you know, try to go to bed early because she would wake up early and just hard work and hard enough just you know just raising us on our own again, came from no money, no wealth. Um and uh and and my father was distant when we were growing up and and so money was always an issue. It was a stress and it was always stressful for her to your question earlier, the relationship I had to him, which was one of adventure, and it was always connected, yes, to the Getty family. Once a year we would go on these unbelievable vacations. And I described many of them in the book. But I would always go back home to a mom who would open the door and go, hi honey. Hope you had a wonderful trip. Good n ight. And would never talk about it again. And and so I I write about that. And that sort of struggle of not being an imposter necessarily, but also never feeling necess uh comfortable. And I never forget there's a story in here when I was a teenager and we went to Spain in some fancy party King Wan thing. This is the coming out party for the Princess. It was one of these just over the top. Yeah, I went to that too. But go ahead . I remember it fondly. Yeah. As if. And those high heels that you were walking around in. Yeah. Oh, God. Another life. There was a I never forgot with the with Ann and Gordon, uh San Francisco. Uh we're in Spain. Keep going. But no, the with their four kids. And I was walking around the four kids and I was sort of the fifth. I was the same age as Andrew was uh became a roommate and we uh years later. But Andrew and I walking around and we were there and I just remember this couple, this very fancy couple going, oh the Getty Boys. It's so wonderful to have you here in Spain. And the whole thing of fabulous Californians and said, which one are you to me? And I went, um I'm Gavin Newsom. And immediately, physically, she sifted and had no interest whatsoever in engaging with me. And it was a moment where you just immediately knew who you were and who you weren't. And again, it's that identity that's I talk about a lot because it shapes a lot.ose Th privileges were absolutely real. Those doors opened that would never have opened without that. But the relationship to that and the relationship to the truth of who I was and where I went back home and and it just is never for me. I struggled to tell that story. And as I say, I my mom deserves the truth. And that is part of why I wrote this book. You seemed uh most people think of you that way. Seeming very fancy Prince Gavin, right? And yeah, no, I get it. And you you put gel in your hair and I talk about that. You do. I finally found out your secret. I even talk about the way I give speeches, move my hands, you know, the using words like era of all this stuff. Yeah. And all that mock 24-7, it just it is what it is. And so what one of the things I've again, I'm now it maybe it took me two fifty-eight whatever years. I now realize you can't control what you can't control. Right. You know, and all my life I've been trying to control all this, control the narrative, control how people think about me and I've struggled with it. And again, in the process of writing this book, let it go. And it's I'm serious. I I hope everyone here writes their own stor We'll be back in a minute . Support for On with Cara Swisher comes from Groons. If you're looking for a health goal that you can actually stick to, you might want to check out Groons. Groons is a simple daily habit that delivers real benefits with minimal effort. They're convenient, comprehensive formula packed into a snack pack of gummies a day. 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Um I I I got married during that time here in San Francisco was a great benefit. Um uh at the time at the time it was against state and federal law, and only about a third of Californians supported it. Now, history is on your side here. And one of the interesting things, I had an encounter with a very well-known politician who was saying Gavin's finished, I remember. And they said, and I'll never forget this, uh, said Americans aren't ready for gay marriage. This is very well-known politician. And for some reason I stopped being a reporter and I said it's called leadership, which and they were like, and I was like sorry, that's uh it doesn't matter if people are ready. But you know, th there is a what you did was really forward and there's a there's an uncomfortable peril to Trump in a weird way that he's raft of executive orders also defying the law. Talk about it's okay when a leader defies the law and that's leadership, and when it's not okay. You know, I I see Steve Kava's here and some many couples that uh were were part of that that winter of love. Four thousand thirty-six couples, forty-six states, six countries came here in February to just say two magical words. They wasn't even that remarkable there's magical. I do. Um and you know I I I talk a lot about that story at Paul Pelosi's here and how uh Paul I took your seat um at uh when Nancy um uh Madam Speaker uh was kind enough to invite me. I was a newly minted mayor, I went back to meet with congressional delegation, and coincidentally was the same day that President Bush was given his State of the Union. And I was gonna leave. We had a reception in the Capitol, and uh the speaker asked, Would you interested in sticking around for the event? I said, I don't have a ticket. She goes, I don't think Paul's gonna go. And so I took his ticket, went back up on the rafters and sat there. And I'll never forget after the end of the speech, and you can go back to the speech, it was a re-election speech, and it ended with it, we need a constitutional marriage amendment to make marriage uh between a man and a woman and people standing ovation the whole thing. But we're walking back and no one could bring cell phones in. So you're waiting in line for the cell phones. And I'll never forget true story. As I'm standing there waiting in line, the couple behind me, uh was just talking about the speech and how proud they were of the president. And one of them said, I'm just, and said the words, I'm just so sick and tired of the homosexual agenda. And it was the way they said homosexual I didn't have the guts or courage and I meekly turned, got my phone, and instead of going back down to see Nancy and the Congressional Delegation after speech, I walked in the opposite direction outside of the Capitol. And I'll never forget the door locked and I couldn't get back in. And it was a cold night and I called Steve Kava, who was my chief of staff. And I said, Did you hear the speech? He goes, uh yes, sir. I said, Well, we need to do something about it. None of us knew what we're gonna do. Came back fast forward this a few days later and we decided that we were gonna marry one couple, Phyllis Lyon and Del Martin. They've been together some forty-seven years and and and we were gonna file a lawsuit. But word got out that we were gonna do this and the federal courts were right across the street and they said that they were gonna get a temporary restraining order, they were gonna stop us from moving. And then we realized I think Daniel Lurie's here as well. It's good to be mayor, Daniel. I realized I was mayor and I can open City Hall up earlier than nine. And so we we called Phyllis and Dell and we said, get here at eight and we gotta get this done by nine o'clock uh because they're likely to l shut us down and they got married. I wasn't there. I was up in the office ironically because I didn't want to make it political. Um and that's when we had a few other couples And and you know, after that all hell broke loose. So you just And I I remember I say that with love, you know, Arnold's like, you know, it's you know it's chaos, you know, in the uh San Francisco. And people were critical, but the most critical part, and I want to get specific to your question. It was a great question. I'll get to it . But some of the people I admire most in political life, the ones that all told me just three weeks prior, you know, all the one universal advice, just do what you think is right. It goes by in a flash. You know, you're a new mate, just do what you think is right. Those same folks were some of the most critical. And and the party was, um you may not recall this, I was hardly favored nation status at the DNC. They were like, you don't really have to go to Boston uh for the convention. You know, it's all good. You're new mayor. You should really focus on homelessness. And you know, and so they didn't want you. You were pro- I went through that process of trying to figure out the question you just asked. I was asking myself I was being condemned by people I admired people I really revered including leaders in the LGBTQ community that were like who the hell is this guy uh to do this? So do you regret it at all even today? No, because I said in that and this is what I'm describing in the book. I got into it and I got frustrated and flustered and it was at the Balboa Cow never forget. It's in the book. And I won and Joe really pushed me. Fierce lawyer, amazing advocate. And he goes, He really pushed me. Tell me why. Why the hell are you doing this? I said, Joe, because it's the right thing to do. And I remember saying that, and and Joe literally turned around to my uncle Brennan and my dad said, boys, it's the right thing to do, and he'll be doing it tomorrow morning. And and and and so that's I was struggling with that. You know, and I started strug I was, you know, being condemned, having second doubts, and and figuring out, you know, yeah, we broke the la w, but when the court said stop, we stopped. It wasn't a, you know speed bump. It was a stop sign, the rule of law applied. And that's what we did. We applied the law, we pushed the envelope, we used not just our formal authority, but our moral authority. That's the frame of my response to your question. And that is one thing Donald Trump is incapable of. Formal authority and moral authority. And that's the decision. All right. Thank you for that answer. So I'm gonna move on to some other topics. You recently scored a huge win with redistricting California . And Democrats Democrats are picking up five house seats. Um, it might not be enough to overcome Republican gerrymanders. There's a threat of obviously illegal executors to stop or at least slow voting. Um talk about what Democrats need to do now to avoid getting shut out of power. Speaking of someone who uses his authority and executive orders. Of my party, and this is not a knock at any individual. The party is many parts, not you know, and one body, but it's many parts. That we constantly on the receiving end of you know CRT, DEI, I E E S G. We're constantly being shaped shift. We're not shifting the conversation. We're on the defense so often. That's why I started showing up on Fox, and that's why, you know, I debated Ron DeSantis a few years ago and and Sean Hannity, the both and the same time. And I've got to own up to my own complicity at the moment, my own timidity, my own anxieties, my own insecurities. You know, you know, don't just preach practice. And and so it was all shape shifting at the same time. And I started leaning in, I started getting a little bit more aggressive Newsmax and One American News and the right wing echo chamber, and how we were constantly on the defense. And so over the course of the last few years, I've been iterating, but after that recall, you know, where there's finality, talk about humility. I was like, this weaponization, I experienced it in a different way. The RNC, New Kingridge, Mike Huckabee, all these guys trying to take us out. And so it it be it began the process of shifting. The fires in LA, and this is let me get to the redistrict. The fires in LA set it back again. You know, I was down there Th ere within a couple hours. And Trump was just I was there with Biden, the president of the United States and the governor down there within a few hours of this fire. And Trump is just blowing us up, saying it was because we didn't turn on the waters faucet from Northern California, the sprinklers weren't working. And you think this, but you like, but I was started turning on, I'm watching Fox. I'm there's working on the next recall. And I'm and I'm gettinging friends say why didn't you send the water down? I'm like, you're kidding. R ight. Elon Musk is doubling down. I'm like, this is in the middle of the fire. And I'm like, holy shit, we are not prepared for this. And that's when this our social media began to shift a little bit. We put a California facts website up. We started to take it to the next level. But it was June of last year when Donald Trump federalized 4,000 National Guard and sent seven hundred active duty Marines not overseas but to the second largest city in the United States of America, that everything shifted. That was the red line. And that's when we began the process of drawing a line and said, you know what? We've got to significant ly shift our tone and tenor. And I'll just remind you, and I I know that I I know this long-winded, but I want to remind everybody. Donald Trump called Greg Abbott demanding five seats. He said he was quote unquote entitled. The president of the United States said he was entitled to five seats in a mid-decade redistricting to rig the 2026 November of this year election because he knows he's going to get crushed. He's going to be shellacked in this election. He knows he's going to lose. So he's trying to rig the election. But what the difference was, and I talked to Nancy Pelosi and Zoe Lofgren and others, I never expec ted what they were able to achieve in a five-day period, which was consensus. And few folks expected, they expected us as Democrats maybe to try to win the arg ument. Maybe we just try to show how right we are and how wrong Trump is. And maybe we can get an op-ed in the New York Tim es. And instead, we fought fire with fire. We punched a bully back in the map and we put that map back on the ballot. And we won. And we kicked our ass and Donald Trump lost, and the Republican Party lost, and that shows what we're capable of. When we fight fire with fire, conviction. The problem with the Democratic Party so often is we appear we ak. And we've got to be stronger and we've got to be more assertive. And so that's you know, it's the spirit a little bit of marriage equality. It's the spirit, I think, that is required of this moment. worried about is becoming too much like them, right? Every episode we get a question from an outside expert. Uh here's yours. Hi, I'm Jennifer Welch, co-host of I've had it podcast. And the big question I want to ask you is you recently said that Democrats need to be more culturally normal. And Governor, I think that's a very dangerous statement because me, a very mouthy woman in a Bible belt state, if I were culturally normal here, I would have to submit to my husband and I wouldn't be able to have a podcast wherein I could critique every little thing you say. Governor Newsome, do you think this is dangerous language for you to use to an electorate that should be embracing diversity across the board? Diversity should be normal. Well I I me an diversity should be normal? I mean, who's been the biggest champion of diversity? We've been hold on. No, but that too. I just don't accept the frame of the question. No, but let me answer the question. I don't accept that frame at all. All right. Diversity, that's our greatest strength. We don't tolerate our diversity, we celebrate our diversity. We live in the most diverse state, in the world's most diverse democracy. That's a point of pride. That's a core value. She should know that. When it comes to the issue of forensics of understanding how we gain power and get back in the majority, not just this year, but get back on our feet and win not just the House, but the Senate and win back the White House, I think it's right to reflect on the past and to stress test it. And there's been a lot of forensics, but not, I think, the kind of autopsy that would ultimately illuminate what are our strengths, what are our weaknesses. So in that context, it's part of that larger discovery. I've talked about this on my podcast on multiple occasions. I have 20, I'm not making this up, 27 pages of my own autopsy on what the hell happened last November in the election. Trying to understand the contours. Was it incumbency? Was it interest rates? Was it inflation scars? Was it 107 days versus 119 days? Across the state And so I'm I'm trying to have conversations publicly in that respect. That's what I'm doing on the podcast. That's why I'm inviting people in that I know are uncomfortable because I'm trying to understand the contours of the other side. So we have ability then to compete. And that goes to why I agree with the frame that set up that question. And that is, no, I I I get it . You know, I'm I we're putting a mirror up to Donald Trump, unquestionably. And the day we did that, Trump wasn't complaining about some of those all cap twe ets. It was all the folks on Fox that seemed to be so offended. Uh, and they were saying, Boy, where's his wife? She should wash his mouth out with soap. Uh, this is so unbecoming of a governor to talk like this . Lacking any situational awareness, they haven't said a damn word about Donald Trump dressing up as the Pope or Superman or putting his face on Mount Rushmore. They didn't say a damn word. They've countenanced that forever. So I understand that instinct. And part of me at first was like, mmm, do we really want to do this? But we need to do it. We need to put that mirror up to Trump and Trumpism. And it's not because none of this is normal. And and my whole point is this. We will lose our country. We will lose our republic. This guy is not screwing around. It wasn't just the federalization of the national Guard, which we said in June was a preview of things to come, and you saw that in DC. You saw that in Chicago, you've seen it in Minnesota. We said it when we kicked off the campaign for Prop 50. You may recall it the Democracy Center. And there was a guy out there with dozen masked men trying to intimidate people from walking in the event by the name of Greg Bovino. Dressed up as if he just got off the set of a 1930s movie, if you catch my dri ft. And we said he is a thing, uh preview of things to come. And it's exactly what's happened. You've seen Ravino all across the country. You saw him on election day, the BorTac teams right there in front of the Dodger Stadium trying to intimidate our diverse communities on election day. These guys are not screwing around. I was just in Fulton County. Let me finish because this is important. Because it's important . This he wake up. He's in Fulton County. We met with the head of their elections commission trying to take over the election in Fulton County, a critical county in this state. He's trying to federalize the vot ing. 15 states minimum, he said, at least. The Save Act, that's not about voter ID, it's about who can vote. It's about voter registration. This guy is not screwing around, the most corrupt president in American history. And we will lose our countr y if we don't fight back and push back. So yes, I cringe sometimes in my social media as well. But I think it's important in this environment that we call out the bullshit that we're seeing 24-7. But you were talking about I think she was addressing Democrats, how they I I don't when you said culturally normal, I didn't know what that meant. And you know what? I it for me, I was stuck on some of the issues within the prisons. I was I was and and those are hard to explain. Culturally moral doesn't mean right or wrong. Right. It means how people feel about certain issues that sometimes are difficult issues to explain. And, you know, respectfully, there are some difficult issues that are difficult to explain. Um, and in terms of winning elections, how we navigate that's important. And let's go back to marriage equality. It's in the book. There are a number of elected officials that blame me for the outcome of the election that November. So I don't think it's an unfair thing to talk about how we win elections in a sensitivity on the basis of my own relationship to that and understanding the relationship to how we look at the larger map in the school. Although some might say that's putting on a mask, that you're not really lying, you know, you talk about masks. I not I'm not suggesting you don't speak your truth. Right. I'm not suggesting any of that. It's what you what you emphasize, what you disproportionately focus on and how you navigate a world where they're again trying to shape shift and we are on the defense. Again, that's why I went on the offense as it relates to the banning bidge and the cultural purge that the right wing is doing. And that's why we are iterating in that respect . We'll be back in a min ute. Wanna go electric without sacrificing fun? That's the Volkswagen ID4. All electric and thoughtfully designed to elevate your modern lifestyle. The Volkswagen ID4 is fun to drive withation instant acceler that makes city streets feel like open roads. Plus, a refined interior with innovative technology always at your fingertips. The All-Electric ID4. You deserve more fun. Visit VW.ca to learn more. SUVW, German Engineered for All. Let's go through some issues. Um, you have less than a year in office. One of the most high-profile fights you're in right now is over a proposed one-time tax for billionaires Talk a little bit about that that fight's an interesting fight because it also dovetails into the idea of the entire tech industry losing its fucking mind. Um and um shifting hard to the right. Or do lead do speaking of standing up, do voters want a leader that stands up to this may not be the way, the billionaire tax may not be the method. Four issues. Okay. I mean I I think there are four issues. I mean we can we can get into you know what's what's going on with those three individuals you you represent? We could talk about what's going on with tech more broadly. Well, we need some psychologists for that. Losing their mind. A few weeks ago, I promoted, I wasn't defending, I actually made the case for California's progressive tax system. And I'll remind folks: sixteen states tax their poorest residents more than California taxes its richest . Who's the high-tax st ate? You look at the most regressive taxes in America, that's Texas, that's Florida. Who are the high-tax states? Yes, we have a progressive tax policy. And that means we disproportionately rely on a few taxpayers relative to the overall population. And that has benefited us greatly. It's why we have universal preschool. That's why we have universal health care, regardless of pre-existing That's why we've been able to do 379, almost 380,000 child care slots and subsidies. That's why we've been able to do a lot of the things we're doing. As it relates to this specific tax, do we need a to have tax policy in this country and go back to the old tax rates and consider a new tax rates for the ultra-wealthy? Absolutely. And I've been advocating for that and I believe that. But it is state basis, the challenge is Pilly's ability people to move. And you've seen that. It's not anecdotal now. The number of people who have moved out of the state and how easy that is. So I'm concerned about that on the basis of the volatility of our taxes and how that can impact the progressivity of our taxes and impact our existing tax structure in a deletorious way. Final thing on that, that tax doesn't go to teachers. It doesn't support firefighters. That tax doesn't go to child care workers. That tax doesn't allow us to do that taxes for one particular purpose one time and doesn't benefit. So there's also issues I have with the details. But the way this is deployed. So if you were, say, president, you might do a a tax. That's a very different conversation. But at a state level, yeah. So you have to recognize and reconcile that reality. And it's a real reality. It just is. Uh as is the reality that many but not all. I we we haven't had this conversation, and you I should be asking you. I don't know that tech has moved to the right. I think a few loudmouths have. That's corre ct. I th you you you look at the vast majority of folks that work in these companies, they're still voting and from my perspective in an enlightened way . And a lot of those folks that have moved to the right were kind of dabbling in that space already. Yeah. And I just I think that's that's a component part of this. That said, man, you know, I was quoting Plutarch the other day, Plutarch. But he was a he was a historian, which is fascinating about, 50 A.D., he was warning the Athenians that the imbalance between the rich and the poor is the oldest and most fatal ailments of all republics. Two thousand years a go, warning about this imbalance. I mean, we're talking about the first trillionaires in this country. Ten percent of folks own two-thirds of all the wealth in this country. This is not sustainable. We have got to democratize our economy so we can save democracy. And so there is fundament al restructuring of our economy that is that needs to take shape. And and these and that's among the debates in the last time we did sprit wall. And that's gonna be part of the debate moving forward as it relates to stabilizing the volatility in our tax structure as well. But that's I think a legit critique as it relates to how these guys to your point have reacted to this tax that conflates other aspects of it. Yeah, they're very hurt. Too bad. I always I always say they're so poor, all they have is money. Um so let's speaking of which, because that would be a federal thing, um, this is your last year as governor. Um we have just a few minutes. Oh you said that three damn times. It's so depressing . All All right, let's not do the exhausting coy thing. No, but it's been three times. All right, I I think everyone assumes you're running for president. Um so and you're well practiced. You're well practiced in dodging the will you I hate that question. Anyway, you did say one of your sons told you recently that he doesn't want you to run. What would compel you to run in spite of the request from your son. Nice. Well done. Thank you. That's why I am paid the big bucks. Montana is here. Sorry, Montana I'll lay you out a little bit, my oldest, who's 16. And um and and she's got she says this, I think it was I haven't seen it, but she told me and it may not be true. She says, I have a calendar, Dad, counting down the days till you're no longer governor. And Wow. And I think she's calling it her version of Liberation Day. So she, you know, 16-year-old, if you get my drift. Uh so she can finally be free. And so I've got that. She's almost 17. She's almost as she told us today uh later in the calendar year but uh uh she'll always be sweet 16 to me uh and then and then my 14 year old boy though he saw some headline that misrepresented a little bit uh of of the facts where it said new some poise to run for, you know, whatever. And and and he goes texted me. He texted me and he goes, Dad, I hear you're running, are you running for I said, no, I'm not. He goes, I would never do that. And I literally texted, I said, I would never do that without you. He goes, good. And he says, 14-year-old boy. And he goes, good, Dad, because we're too young and you need to spend more time with us. Oh . And and I literally, no BS screenshot of that. I have that. And my my wife reminds me of that all the time. And so does this bo ok. Because you know, I Jen, she never said it, but she had to think it. What what kind of husband are you gonna be? What kind of father are you gonna be? She's got a rock star, Dad. We just celebrated his 85th birthday last night. Four extraordinary daughters. He's the man of us. You want, I mean, like central cast ing. Mom and d ad coached the girls' teams, basically retired relatively young age to be there for his daughters. And now he's there like he was with his daughters for our grand for my kids, his grandkids. An extraordinary person. And that shaped her consciousness of life. And here I am talking about my dad and my mom and in my relationship with my dad when I was young, which is again very distant as a father. And I could only imagine what was going through her head when we first had our kids. And so in every way, and she mentioned Mimi Silbert, who's, you know, one of my heroes and saved my life in so many ways, and how she really cracked me open. And So you ask a direct question. Yeah. They all have veto power. And if any one of them uh say no chance I won't e I won't even give it a second thought. I'm not gonna screw up my marriage to this rock star woman, this extraordinary person, my wife, and I'm not gonna I'm not gonna screw up uh my time with my kids. Is this the boxer and brief part part of the conversation. On Friday, Trump ordered the government to stop using Anthropic's AI models called he called Anthropic quote radical left AI company because it wanted to prevent the Pentagon from using the products for domestic surveillance or powering autonomous weapons without human involvement. A few hours later, OpenAI announced a deal with Pentagon with I'm not sure it has similar guardrails. I'll I'll question that. Um Talk about that. What w we we're seeing pushback here from tech as you noted. You just said they're not as well. My subjectivity, Dario's been a real leader. He's the CEO. The CEO of Anthropic. And so it does not surprise me, because he's a person of character. He helped shape the nation's first AI frontier model, large language model regulations in the state of California, which I was proud uh to be part of. And he was a fierce advocate for going further and constantly pushing us to do more to address the peril, not just the promise of AI. And so he had a red line and the courage to hold that line in a way that so few CEOs do. That's why I have a patriot site with knee pads to give to our universities and law firms and media and CEOs that are selling out to Donald Trump. And Anthropic did not. And he deserves our praise and he deserves our support. All right, next one. We're taping this. Um we're taping this on Saturday night, about twenty-four hours ago. President Trump joined Israel in attacking Iran. The New York Times editorial board wrote that Trump's decision is reckless and ill-defined. Um, on X, you linked to one of Trump's old tweets where he criticized Obama for striking Libya because of bad poll numbers. Um, but you also wrote that Iranian leadership needs to go. Apparently, the Ayatollah has been killed. There'll be another ayatollah, by the way. Are you worried about uh this move and what do you think it stems from? I think we all it was stems from weakness masquerading the strength. It stems from a complete failure of this administration, this historic president who's historically unpopular, that is trying to distract from his failures across the spectrum. Uh he doubled down on stupid during the State of the Un ion. No course correction at all. And and you're absolutely right. In 2011, he didn't just say it once, he did videos condemning, criticizing President Obama, suggesting somehow he was gonna do this, and it was a desperate attempt for But you saw you had you had Tulsi Gabbard out there saying regime change is wrong. You had J.D. Vance say that they lied to you. He lied to you. So reckless is the only way to describe this. He didn't describe to the American people what the end game is here. He didn't describe the existential threat of the moment, the immediacy of the crisis at hand. There wasn't one. He manufactured it. And now we're manufacturing a crisis of outcomes unknown and the uncertainty it marks at this moment. And that's Donald Trump, the chaos president, this wrecking ball president across the board. Destruction is not stren gth. And once again, we've seen him destroy not our out not only our allies in relationship to the rest of the world, but we're seeing him destroy any capacity to explain fundamentally what the core American interest is at this moment to declare war, to go to war with the regime. And all of this is playing out in real time and we just pray for our truce, we pray for our allies, and we pray that Donald Trump is temporary and his time is up in just three years. So um are you worried that it's linked to the midterms? Obviously that has come up. He is an executive order ready to to do all manner of nonsense around the midterm elections and elections. Again, this guy is not screwing around. He t the what more evidence do you need? He tried to wreck this country and light democracy on fire on January 6th. He called that same Fulton County folks looking Secretary of State for 11, 12,000 votes. He tried to rig the midterm elections as it relates to redistricting, and he's going about with these mass men and these board tech teams. And these are acts of authoritarianism. He's not hiding it. Nor is he hiding his disdain for any kind of independent thinking. What is his attack? All these institutions have one in common. His attack is on independent thinking. And you're seeing my biggest concern now is what's happening with med ia. And how are the and this concentration in the hands of just a few folks. He's deciding the prime time lineup, these places. The impact, by the way, of this deal in California will be outsized in terms of layoffs and creativity. This is all happening in real time. Forgive me again. You know, back to washing my mouth, you know, with soap. That's why we have to be more aggressive. That's why we have to be more vigilant. That's why we have to be stronger and much more aggress ive in this moment. So last time, I will note that Epic Fury has the same initials as Epstein Files. Um What a coincidence. Um the fallout it keeps ballooning though and the number of high profile resignations in the wake of their release. Um we learned this week the files did include some records related to very heinous allegations unproven uh against Donald Trump. This is an issue I thought had real legs. Scott and I argued about it many months ago. I thought it was critically important, this issue. Um how do you look at what's unfolding in with the Epstein files and many people think the attack was related to getting it? Well they l there's gotta be something he's hid ing. I mean, give me a break. No one has worked so har d at making this go away than Pam Bondi on behalf of Donald Trump and the FBI. And by the way, that same DOJ, he's demanding $230 million of money. The IRS, he's demanding $10 billion. Please, I hope you saw that. He's demanding a settlement of $10 billion. He says he's gonna negotiate with himself, and he may, because he's you know, he's a man of character, may give it to char ity. This is the guy that got not just a $400 million plane, because he called Qatar and said, I want $400 million plane, but got close to a billion dollars to retrofit the plane. The Trump story is a story of corruption. It's a corruption story. The Whitcoff family, the Trump famil y, World Financial Literary, the tariffs are a corruption story. Why do you think he was weeping It's much or more than anything else. So you ask about the Epstein file. It's all in that same place and shape. I was with John Ossoff the other day down in Georgia. And I love what he played. This notion of the Epstein class. It's all shaped in that. All of these trips overseas, you know, they have one thing in common. The family goes out first to get the deal done, the UAE. Get the two billion dollars for the crypto. In return, you get high-valued computer chi ps. Same thing that happened on the terrace, 26% reduction as it relates to Vietnam. They got the golf course, the Trump family. Fast track, a billion and a half doll ars. All happening in open sight, but there's clearly things in the Epstein files that Donald Trump doesn't want you to know. And my biggest fear on this, said it the other day, and I really, I really fear this, and I hope this is not the case, and that's why it's absolutely critical that the gavel is in the hands of Sakpeer Jeffreys this November. It is found ational. But even with that, there's a scenario where I can see Trump starting to pardon key members of his administration. There's scenarios where that where these it's not about redaction. These things are deleted and disappe ar. That's how critical this moment is of vigilance. That's why I'm very proud of so many of these Californian leaders in Congress, and Robert Garcia being a leader, a particular leader in this space, that have been very aggressive. And again, it's just about maintaining vigilant and not you know in the spirit of the wag of the dog not continue to take our eye we cannot take our eye off the ball we can't allow this to be normalized we can't allow, don't ever, please don't use the pra this is just Trump being Trump. Those are deadly words. That's what he wants. It's the shock and awe. He wants to break us down. He wants to exhaust us. And that's why this is not easy. And I know our time's up, but I just want to say thank you to all of you, not just for being here tonight, not just being here in relationship to this book, and for yourselves, but for each other. Thank you for showing up. San Francisco always shows up. No Kings rallies . This is this is the spirit of this c ity. And thank you for not giving into the cynicism and all the anxiety and fear out there. And it's hard. I know it's hard. It's exhausting. This is exhausting. So my last question then, what is your best case scenario? And what is the one that worries you? You you stole MS now and in some ways JD Vance scares you more than Trump um in a lot of Well, I I uh look, I'm I I'm painted a picture and I said this before, I mean you know, we're celebrating the 20050th anniversary of the Founding Fathers, the best of the Roman Republic, Greek democracy, co-equal branches of government, something that Trump had to deal with with the Supreme Court decision the other day and to reconcile that. The rule of law, not the rule of Don. And and if it's not dawning on all of us what we're up against in the existential nature, that will reflect the worst-case scenario. That we lose grip with the insidiousness of this moment and how vicious these guys are on the other side, and how complicit Murdoch Inc. is at this moment in the primetime lineup at Fox and Sean Hannity and Laura Ingram and all the rest. And by the way, Laura Ingram, who's in business with Donald Trump Jr. and Chamat h, whose partner on his podcast is David Sachs. You want corruption and open sight, connecting the dots to our media, the whole thing. If we don't call this out, that's the worst worst case because we won't celebrate the best this historic project of our founding fathers in the 251st anniversary. We can lose this country, we can lose our republic. The best case scenarios you keep showing up. You don't give in to the cynicism, that fear and the anxiety, because you recognize you have agency. You can shape the future. You're the antidote to that. And so that's the power. It's you know, Brandeis said it. In a democracy, the most important office is not governor or president. It's office of citizen. Active, not inert citizenship. So maintain that vigilant, maintain that energy and that daring, and keep showing up. And if we do that donald trump's presidency as we know it will end this november it will end as we know it this november so then very last question what's the name of the sequel to this? Old Man in a Walker? I don't know. Yeah. I'm getting there. I'm getting there. What is the sequel? That happens. What is this sequel? I don't know what the sequel is, but I will say this and I let me end on this because I I I appreciate it. U h I appreciate here talking about the book. And thank you. I hope some of you read it. Don't just read the you know I some of you are just gonna look in the index to see if your name appears. And I I get that. By the way, I've written some personal notes in the index to say, gotcha, found you. But I hope people will see aspects of their own lives and their own journey in here. And I hope people will see, you know, there may not be a sequel. And and I get that. To the point is I don't I you talk about my sell by date. You know, I'm serious. That I that a little anxiety inducing for me. Because I've always been that young man in a hurry. I've you know been in this process you know since Willie Brown appointed me the parking and traffic commission. You know I was like you know what's this guy doing next, the whole thing. And and so if there's nothing next, I'm just you know, I was finally able to put my version of events out there. I was able to tell my mom how much I loved her, even if she's not around, but I was able to say that and I was able to describe that. I was able to reflect on my own journey, my own relationship with my wife and my kids, and and how important they are to me, and how important all of you have been to me, and how important the city has been to me and how it's shaped me. And and and I'll I'll close on this. My dad starts in the book, he says he didn't know what came first, the Irish cop or San Francisco. Um and it was a way of connecting my history to this city with his great-grandfather, who was that Irish cop. My kid, sixth generation San Franciscans, and how special and proud I am of this city, and how proud I am to have been born in this city, and how lucky we all are to be in this precious and beautiful place at this remarkable time in American history. Thank you guys, all of you very much for being here today. Thank you all. Thanks so much for coming