Balancing Career Ambitions and Motherhood

This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome, that's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a fifty page restoration block, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online makes sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responssees set upp required compatibility and availability varies eighteen plus Sam, hello. Hi. Today on Table for four, we've got joining us Doro Porter and Gemma Keerney. We do. What are you cooking for us all? So to start, we're having broad bean and fatatter toast. so like scatterice. I never broke the internet. So when I was just like, no one cares about what I have to say, oops, okay, maybe they do And then we have got Tusk and chicken Which is because Dorwn likes a white wine chicken, apparently. like chicken in a white wine sauce. So we're jzuging it up a bit, making it Tuscan style. What makes it Tuscan? Sun dried tomatoes. Chicken is from Tuscany, yeah. Tcan chen. fun hot guy from Italy and they're cooking it. Oh, right And that don't sexualise my podcast. And so thats going to be with ricean I was like, okay can I get out? he's like, No, and then she caught my sick in her hand. There a little bit of asphyxiation there. And then for pudding, we've got a roulard, mango rouard. Oh nice Ficilis on top. Ficilis Filis. Ficilis. notot to be competated with the sexually transmitted disease. Well, I'll try not to think of that when I'm eating it. Thank I thought we liked each other until we met you.. Right, G on. I'm good thing. Welcome, Doro Porter. I Jen Cy. We're recording all that we could probably cutting it in later But the catchchup is fr. D we know? Are we on now? Yeah, we're on. I've just done it. Hello. Welcome to the podcast. Welcome Yeah. I'm so hungry I'm almost self conscious of the noises that I'm making What's in stomach rumbling Yeah. We're all in this together and we're going to be making the same noises. And Sam is going bring over our starter and a drink. And hopefully they will be vaguely related to your tastes But whilst that happens, we're gonna do some quick fire questions if that's okay. Yeah. Yeah. Right. G. Who is the best cook Dwn. I't ar are eing. Come, you imagine if I was like me, everyone would know that was a lie. I don't know if I've ever eaten anything that you've cooked. Exactly. Have you ever cooked for her? I don't think so. No. That makes me a bitbarrassed I can cook. I'm sure there's been some hungover toast delivered at some point. Yeah. Yeah That's probably it But do you take great enjoyment in it? Are you like you love cooking for people? I'm obsessed with cooking for people. So yeah, I would have cooked for yeah, Jem but no, but I'm also like if I want people to come to my house so that I ook. O we go out, don't we? Yeah, and I think, you know we've been in so many different places in terms of home. Yeah. That's probably what's prevented me cooking for sure. Yeah. Yeah, I' go with that. That I lived you know all around the world. This dry toast. It dry toast. wasas it any good? Because I think it could be your lucky day.reat.ry toast. It's making it less dry. Is it dry? What have we got? We've got some broad bean and fatter toast It iss nice time but it's not dry This is such a treat Yeah. Itso like eating whilst on mic. I don't think I've ever done that. It shouldn't work. Yeah. and it probably doesn't. We're gonna do it anyway. Well we're gonna do it anyway. I think people love it. Who's the most adventurous eater I mean, I just associate the word adventurous with you full stop But you're pretty adventurous too. I do eat Yeah, Oh that I'd say we're probably on a level there. Yeah It's funny because we met when we were in the jungle, but we weren't in the jungle. We were on the panel show for I'm Seleb getet me out of here. which is you said sixteen years. My tummy is around. so loudly. But people were eating with st in the jungle, but we just got to comment on it. Yeah, so we were just in that swwitchover show that and then we they would just be eating disgusting things. We had one of the best weeks of our lives. We literally met just drank an ate our way through this amazing five days in Australia and fell madly in love and have been friends ever since But we because on the show the stuff they put in their mouth isn't great. Not great N great. tryry and make you try any of that. You know what? I remember you gave me some really good advice, like some sisterily advice because they were like the production team were being quite enticing with like extraacricular activity. We were there to film the show once a day. that was it They'd like call your hotel ro and be like, Do you want to be part of like extra VT and like maybe do this or spend a night in the jungle for fun and experience and I was a bit like Should I do that? Is it like good for my career? I remember asking door just like, No, come have dinner with me. But I remember that was like we were not in the tabloid world at all. And I remember them saying to it one day, if you happen to want go to the beach in a bikini. We could make sure that someone's there to capture it. Yeah. What does I didn't understand what they were talking about. I was like, firstly, I haven't worn a bikini since I was six. And secondly, what do you mean someone was there to capture it? And I was like, Oh everything, we're just here for like, you know, for red top. Godes And so we very quickly we just like, let's just have a nice time together instead. Yeah. very M much bd decision, that is. What have we got Sam? This is an elder flower and apple sparkle. Oh Nice. Your nickname, isn't it That looks amazing. That does look really good. and I'm really appreciating stuff that looks like a cocktail. Yeah, me too, too. And what is that inspired by Sam Um summer, the nice weather sounds good. Very broad and acceptable. Thank you very much. How refreshing Well I thought it wouldd be nice to have a little mocktail Yeah. Yeah, deliciousake good, yeah It's the yummy. It's really good. Who who makes the best cup of tea Probably dwn. I think you can make a cup of tea. I got make a cup of tea. to put yourself down. I know I'm just like thinking about how I. We'll talk about self esteem later th. I think you should I feel like in your company I'm like curled up on a sofa. Yeah, that's true. I' not really doing much. And why is that U because is a go dependency. Dfinitely Okay. Is she very motherly? Do you feel like she really looks after you? Do You know what thinking about it? I don't know if it's just like the theme of mother because I'm here like heavily pregnant But Yes, you are like you are a m youre like a you're like a sister, but you also have that maternal quality deffinitely. I feel very kind of safe and warm and looked after and nourished in Dawn's company, definitely. Has I always been in New Dorwn or was there a shift I think it's always been in me. Also, I'm older than German. even though it doesn't play out in our friendship D D day, I feel it. I feel kind of protective and like I need to look after for some reason. And I really enjoy it. But then I would you know, I'm kind of person who if you walk into my house, I'll just put a plate of food in front of your. Oh my god, you just sound amazing I'm amazing. I amazing' not today You are a great host. There's no doubt about it. I was thinking about the qualities of Daorwn. a host is right up there So say you're choosing, you know, where to go, what restaurant, which one of you would you say would be the one choosing? That's Jem.. Jem organized my fortieth. Jem is the person who will organize you the best night out or a plan or a schedule for a holiday or anything like that. I'm home ight Oh, God, that's so lovely. Youour boat's like perfect. We're perfect. Didould you well we'll say about that Okay, B my mouth Let's dig deep When did did you realize that dynamic was going to happen or was going to be nurtured when you first met on on the show, or is up Was there an instantaneous draw to each other. But that dynamic came from there. I was a fan. I was so excited. In fact, one of the reasons why I said yes to the program was because it told me who I was going to be on it with And I was like, Dor I put, I really need to meet her I was on one extra at the time, so I wasn't really in like a big kind of TV shiny mainstream world. but I' watched Dawn's documentaries and thought she was just absolutely just radiant And yeah so I went off to Australia for the first time I'd never been to Australia before And then I was like, I'm I'm in the hotel room, like what should I do? So I think I think you called me. Yeah. I was just having to call Dor. Yeah It like the hotel room, the phone went. And it wass just like, ' is that Dawn? likeah she goes, I'm Gemma. It's like, greatreat. So I went downstairs and met in the lobby and I remember the first time I ever saw Jem I'm sure there was fireworks. She just walked towards me wearing this jungle jumpsuit. Your hair was just mad of shit at the time. it just some amazing style. and I just remember thinking I don't have anyone like this in my life. And I just couldn't get enough. It was Caroline Flack who was also hosting at the time. The three of us became really close. We had this wild week with Jack Osbne and Neil Morry. We also down there. just because Jack was sober at the time and Neil is guy. We just weren't. We weren't and the three of us Caroline and Jem and I just went Nuts. We just partied all week. It was like, you know what it's like in the industry. You make friends on productions all the time and you think you're going to be friends forever and it doesn't really gowhere because you get back to your lives. Well this one just stucked, didn't it? It really was quite a magical moment. I remember it feeling so carefree What's it like being absolutely perfect? It's hard actually. Yeah it must be a burden. Yeah, thank you for acknowledging I get every day and the level of maintenance I have to achieve just to like give people what they want. it's hard. but I manage it. It's very lovely listening to two people who clearly. It's gorgeous. I're very very fond of each other to talk about why they're so fond of each other. Has your friendship have you worked together since that time? Have you collaborated on any professional projects or has it personally been sorry, solely been a personal thing Rumble in the jumble. Rumble in the jumble. That Oh that was the first thing we did. We've tried to work together, I think, we've come up with ideas Th then you went to LA Well you already in LA, but like properly there for a long time, having a family But we definitely pitched stuff. What was Rumble in the jungle?umble And Rumble in the Jungle was one of these things and that was like completely an initiative for Like charity rather than got loads of well known people to bring their ro clothes and we hide a church hall and just raise loads of money. Most of what we've done has been charity stuff. Gemin I are both the kind of people who constantly have ideas and like I've got this thing going on where you come and help out. So loads of that kind of collaboration. I do Flakstock in honor of Caroline, Jem, DJ's there. It's like we're always part of each other's projects when we can be. I would love to like have a this or do something that we do regularly together I feel like that's in our future. Definitely. ye. Did you visit?or? Dawn in LA. Yeah What was like went Yeah he was going to see Dawn. and I remember just like literally sating off the plane. That's I've made it And Caroline was already there and it was your apartment that you'd had for a long time in West Hollywoods And Chris was there and I'd never met Chris. I just got together with Chris and can we tell the Xactor story? Yes. on Gome on. I never break the internet. Because Carn I was working on Xactor And think they were looking for a new male host. Steve Jones had got the job, but no one knew. Some reason we knew and Jones dennced it on Twitter. I all knew. Ivery was gonna break the next day or something. And then I wrote on this Twitter before we went to bed after a night out like I think I put a really big clue or something just like he's Welsh or something. I't know And then I woke up the next morning to loads of people being like, this is not good ' loads of People didn't get the job and didn't realize Yeah Oh my go. Iad about that. I've looked out. I was honest, that kind of thing because that kind of thing happens and everyone makes such a fast and a few years later,' like it just doesn't matter. Well ye. No one I I know I They like to remember Prue Lise when she revealed the first winner for the bake offff Oh took over that's great. Yeah Yeah, that is bad. Yeah that is bad. That was bad. Yeah, she was taken over for the first time and it was that series she then announced who the winner was. But I think she was in area where she was somewhere the time different on the who the winner was. We won't have her on this. No, because she's leararning it she' leararning it, you know it's notacceptable We had a moment in that that trip in LA was so We had a great time. and we partied hard. And I remember we went to see a fortune teller and we'd all had this really weird experience with a fortune teller. We' sitting in the back of this cab none of us talking to each other because I don't process prorocessing. I hadve just been given terrible news by this fortune to. And we're all just kind of sitting there And then Jem didn't feel very well, did you No, I felt like LA in its Lal arness I've kind of got to capacity for me I was so used to East London and suddenly I was sle in LA. And I felt really queasy and we were in a massive like traffic jam in a cab because you have to get cabs everywhere. And I was like, I'm going to be sick. And it was in the middle of the day and Dorm was like, you'll get a massive fine if you're sick. in this cab and I was like, okay, can I get out? he's like, No, and then she caught my sick in her hand. In your hands. Oh my god, that's a true friend. That's what I really really got to myself. Yeah. This person is like vcerally You going to lab by now Dawn will deliver. She used to hold her hair back as well. It was so funning Caroline at this point M you remember her laugh? like Yeah cattling and howling I'm coredident. S the cab driver was thrilled was it? Yeah. It was a real display of That's the thing like with the f of bus. L we were just ridiculous. We just used to laugh all the time. Everything was funny. like even the morning of waking up to being told off for like putting out the biggest fun ex factor. and I was like no one cares about what I have to say. Oops Okay, maybe they do. We've just been constantly laughing. Yeah and it was so it's so Joyous to have that, particularly in this world There's a lot you have to be self conscious quite a lot. like how are you portrayed? What do you look like? Are you funny? Are you cool And then now, you know we're in a space where it's even more intensified of like What are you standing up for? what's your idea on? It's so intense. Yeah. Whereas we are MO. like the foundation of a friendship was purely just this like joy. of hanging out And just being mates. Yeah. It was so fast We still have those of fun, but the three of us my Godd I mean, we were a lot. It was amazing. yeah. Did you go to lots of restaurants in L.A or did you cook or was it mainly liquid Mainly liquid and burgers. When I think of having dinner with you, it's a Sunday roast d it's burgers and red wine. Lots and lots of burgers and red wine. Chipilatas. Oh yeah, if they were ever like on a small baked menu. like I have like four is a sausage. But you really surprised me once by ordering steak tartar and I never thought you were a steak tartar type person. And someone you know quite well does something quite unexpected. and I was just really fascinated by this. see, that's where you are adventurouss. You love it. I love that. Yeah. I love food. Yeah. It's really great. This is delicious, by the way Thank you. It's really nice. Yeah. It's very we'reose we're close to our main course, aren't we? Yeah. So how long have you been back over here now in the UK then after living Wow And what's it like coming back? I mean, I've just loved it. Yeah. I love London so much My momum's side of the family with all East Londoners I feel like You know, my feet are on the ground when I'm in London. And there's so much to do here I love LA, but you're in your car a lot on the safe. M I don't I find it quite I was a bit bored Yeah. I felt like my life completely evolved around the school run You were there for a many years.een years. years Wow. There was a couple of years in the middle when we came back, but we still like, you know had a foot in the door there. Yeah. So it was a long time And it was great. I loved it. I absolutely loved it but it was just time to come home. I think when homesickness starts kind of Yeah to you, it's really hard to ignore it So no loing back. It's great. I know people have their own issues with this country. Every country has its problems, but it just feels a lot calmer, safer, nicer, more exciting. Just a better place to be. Yeah. And do you have more opportunity to get together now that you're back then? Well I know you live up in Scotland, Gema, Do you still is it easier to meet up basically? I mean, it's hard. you know, we're mums and we're both really busy We're there for each other's key moments.ike I said, Jem organised my fortieth, which you should offer that as a service because What did you do? What was? How did you organize it? What was outrageous? It was outrageous. Dawn's so fun to organize for. I also like very much was a part of your hen party. Yes, she organized Oh my God. so I shred it. I said to Jem All right, fine, I'll have a handy, but I don't want a fuss. I don't want anything. don' want I just don't really want anything. Something small. She turns up outside my house in an open top bus full of my friends withith a megaphone. It's time for the dwn tour. And took me on T on this b of all my old East London haunts. Like it was Unbelievable there was a tattoo in there somewhere Yeah. Did you get a t got a tattoo? got a tattoo. We stopped had a cocktail b set on the bottom deck. This is what happens when That's so good. And all else we arrived in the dolphin up of Mer Street, classic old hall of mine and there was like Ten people dressed as me. T drag queens. That's incredible. That's what she ever does when she organizes your party. so it's like it's always so extra. I had breakfast radios to the next day as well. Wow. Oh absolutely legendary Why don't you tell us what you've just put down in front of us to eat for our main course? You have got Tuscan chicken, which is a sort of a riff off of chicken and white wine sauce because Dawn apparently You're a fan I've love that pic and white ones. Yes. This is a bit N when I'd say shouldn't sayve bit nice because obviously you love chicken w at all. But A bit bit nicer than that. J jhed it up a bit, should we say? So it's got sun dried tomatoes, some spinach U I's got your white wine cooked off for anyone with pregnancy. and serve with some rice It's Delicious. love flav. loveo it Thank you. Give passife. I'm bing out of my dangreen.. So you know if you two were gonna to open up a restaurant, who would you say would be in the kitchen and who would be front of house? E see? Yeah, I would be front of house. Dawn in the kitchen. We'd have fun. It would be amazing.aybe Id definitely go I bet it would be amazing I'd love to do that with you gem. Yeah I'd love to have a restaurant I keep having different memories now. I'm getting distracted by a funny memory. Good go friend ball. Oh my god, yeah. That was wild. A what? sorry? A ball that Dawn put on for charity And it was like brring your best friend, get dressed up and just like make as much money as possible on IDJ, but that was just like raucous. That was raw. We definitely attracted like a sort of raucous duck cy. It was to raise money for breast cancer charity And all the women that came just bought the party, didn't they? was it kicked off Mel C performed. I himped out Chris in a kissing booth. Do you remember? my Godd, what was he kissing? I I say that was that's so good. We put Chris in a kissing booth and charged ten pounds a kisss A actually came out to me before it started and said, please, it's no tongues, isn't it? And I was like,h, it's for charity. Come on! D you make y? He was such a good sp. So much funy was You should have seen the cute. It was like when through that all was big I was like, wow amazing COVid. you could never get away with that. No, But you remember Mely invit us s up on stage and we sang with the spice girl. I was just like, what is happening? I'd done T had been a bit tough in my career just before that and I'd ended up being the face of bumwipes. Oh yes ye I was very very passionate about what my offering of moist toilet tissue into the world. And it was why you say that a straight place? I don't know, because I'm tell gladbody does. If you're still on contract, you can just say it sometimes you just have to take the job that's on the table.. Anyway, they were so nice for this Bumwipe company that I work for. and I'd wanted to do this to raise money and they offer to pay for the whole thing. So we've got all of these these amazing knice, but we're just like, you know, the adverts of bumwipes throughout the whole thing. So we got sppice girls with bumwipes. We just got Kate Nash with bumwipes It's so unemarked. I kind of skim on the edge of classy all time you never qu never quite get there I got to say actually, you are clary And I was thinking about other things that I associate with you, so host Definitely Brilliant host and other friends of ours Say that about you too. It's not just me And I was thinking, you actually so eccentric.. I was sitting at my desk a while ago writing And I was having to do an interview for something and they asked me to describe myself in three words. And I really had a hard time doing it I wish I'd put a centrer actually, but it's aicult thing to say about yourself. But I'm sitting there My dead stuffed cat is on my desk and then my tortoise walked over my feet. Yeah. I don't have a normal. none of this is normal. So I should have just put I just put cats. I just thought that's how I'm going to describe myself But I think being called atcentric is such a compliment because we and this is why I love Gem so much I think with the world that we live in the self awareness of what social media has done to us all, we're also so so aware of what we're putting out there, how we're being seceived, so scared of getting cancellled And it's just so lovely to surround yourself with people who are just so unashhamedly themselves and not worried about the perception and not worried about necessarily saying the wrong thing, just more interested in saying something. And I think I'm really drawn to people like that. And that's kind of the underlying basis of our friendship, Like Jem is this fireball in life Whenever I introduce to someone new, I just feel this the same way I feel when I introduce one of my kids you know, we're just so unbelieable proud and' like she's . But on that, it's so refreshing in a lot of ways and really really lovely to hear two women bigging each other up consistently with two women who work in British media, which is kind of opposite to the the trope of knocking people down and and building up conflict, you know It's really lovely to hear is that really important to you to be to be supportive and bick each other up? It seems like a real focus of your relationship. If you get a character like Jem, the idea of getting in her way Yeah, good be abusive, Like the idea of getting in the way of someone who is So Bursting to make the world a better place And so when you're friends with someone like that, The idea of jealousy coming into it, the idea of competitiveness coming into it is just It's just so nasty, but you just sit back and like support someone like this and what they create and the impact that they have. Jem has written this unbelievable book that's out in August and I'm three quarters of the way through at the moment. It is one of those books where genuinely if everyone in the world read it the world would be a better place. L it is just Beautiful and stunning. And when you've got a friend that that's that clever How dare you get, you know, how dare you Ruin it. you just you just what's that game where they that weird game, which isn't even a game? It can't be if they play at the winter Olympics for they're wiping the floor and the finger curl it. like that's it.. do very popular in Scotland. Yeah in a homeland. Yeah that's what it's like when you're for a friend like Jem. You just keep doing that so you can just keep kind of going and you're the same with me. It's very very lovely Payer to payer support or sisterly support or whatever it is that we're describing kind of unconditional way of being a friend. and really non transactional as well, which is again, quite rare in the creative industries. It's just so powerful kind of gives like the art or the friendship or the memories like back the power to everyone else's interpretation. and I find it a driving force like again and again. These themes are explored in your book as well. Yeah. Yeah, like I just think, you know, we are in a time of loneliness or being isolated and siloed and it's like, actually You can over analyze all the differences, but We are the same and we all need that sense of belonging. and I think When women do that for each other, it's just It's a really beautiful thing and I've had that with Dawn since we met sixteen years ago We definitely had it with Caroline Right It was just championing. It was just like got your back and that in this time now, thinking about it is actually just so precious and to be protected I think when you get to our age as well, I mean, I'm a lot older than Jem, but as soon as you kind of Past for, you've got kids. These are the only people you should have in your life. because you know we've all had and I've not been a brilliant friend to women in the past. absolutely no angel there at all. and I've had friends who aren't Brilliant to me, but this kind of This very natural cleansing happens, the older that you get As it should, your circle gets smaller and way stronger. And I feel like I feel like that's happened really, really clearly with us, especially since youve bec a mum as well. Yeah. When Dawn met my daughter, she was in Scotland to do a book event and she came to a coffee shop near my house. I can't remember how old Rreita was, but she was really small And I just walked in and it's a coffee shop that I go to regularly with my pram Dawn just looked at me, looked at the baby, it burst into tears and I burst into tears. And then we' just hugging for like way too long. Everyone else was around. I was just like, what is going? J' just gonna have to w. And then when you left the woman behind the till said to me, That is such an incredible moment to see. and I it really resonates. just that kind of I mean you can't really put it into words, but it's just like This moment in alive, like So moving And your book is out August August and it's called the Immortal Sisterthoods. Yeah And you guys talk about A lot of wild partying, media based partying in Los Angeles, you know. And Now things are different in your life And I think your book maybe marks that shift. Through food. Yep It does I mean, my life through food has been ridiculous. I'm such an indulgent person I'm and my last When I moved to LA. and I didn't know anybody I discovered that if I cooked people came And my social life happened because of the food that I cooked. And I kind of went from being this kind of really unhealthy, really indulgent Eater greedy to this post, which, you know, is the word that's come up a few times so like Bringing people to my table very mature attitude to I was raised by a host so that you know that' in you is what you kind of see. and yeah, but the good times to trade I don't drink anymore, which is wild. I don't know when or how that decision happened. but Um It it's changed dramatically but still incredibly indulgent and just all about the community of food and all about the connection. And your book is just all about connection and women connecting. And that's what I think food does. You You've done it here. you've brought it all together. It's like the reason why this bodcast is so lovely to come on is because we all get to share a meal together. You know it's such a way to bring people together And it's how I show love completely. And the food noises aren't that bad, are they? No, becausecause now I haven'topped eating. When you were talking about the fact that I lift Jem up, I was like, but not so much that when you're talking, I'll stop eating Ruthless Ruthless eater. J. How do How have you put the book together then? Are there any recipes in it? or is it just like a is it a walk through your journey, your food and your life and the moments when people have come together? Yeah All of those things. So I lost my mum when I was six And In a house full of sad adults, when food was on the table, everything was okay. There was just this huge distraction And I think as a child, I latched onto it And I was just like, this is the thing will make everyone okay and make everyone happy. so I would just like long for food times for meal times. And then I used it as my comfort as well when I was on my own. It was just always the thing that made me feel better sometometimes not in a particularly healthy way, but always always as a way to, you know, just make myself feel good And so I thought when I started write hungry eyes, I didn't mean to write a memoir. I was going to write similar to what Jem wrote twelve moments, twelve themes from my life and the food that kind of, you know marks that moment and it ended up being more of a memoir of going right back and just looking at my relationship with food and the people who have come to the table and where I was at that point in my life and what we were eating and the moments that you meet people and these relationships form And so that's kind of what the chapters look like and then there is a recipe at the end of each one. It's When you look at your life through the lens of food You realize I don't know, it's just such a great way to see where you were at at different times, especially as a woman, the different ways that you treat your body at different times in your life your self esteem pregnancy Motherhood socially. All of that stuff is played out in the food that you're eating at the time. So it's really I would say to anybody, it's such a good exercise in getting to know yourself to look back on your relationship with what you've eaten Did you find it quite hard at the end of, you know each chapter and everything to choose a recipe? I mean to go right, okay, the su's up this entire moment. Yeah Also S see, I refuse to stop eating even when you've just asked me a question. It's good thinking time, though. It's good thinking time. I'm looking like I've got something good coming and I don't I'm just being ravenous like an eight pregnant person I think when writing recipes, I was quite nervous to write the recipes because I'm not trained chef, but I've cooked all my life. And so I was like as I was writing them down, I was like, what if a trained chef reads this book and tries this recipe and it's awful. So I'd be testing them over and over again and going, well, I think it's delicious, so just go for it. And it's a real mix of some stuff I cooked on Master Chef because I knew that that was successful. So I put lots of that stuff in And then yeah, just stuff that I thought was delicious, but it's not a cookbook It's just It's highlighted with recipes.. You know when you were on Master Chef, how did you find it? Did you enjoy it What was it? I mean, it must have been an incredible experience, but it must have been really tough as well. I mean, what was it like? It was honestly one of the best experiences in my life. I was so in my element and so happy and it's really hard work.'s not They don't I you watch a show like that and you think, o, there's los of training going on. They're being told what to cook. It's just not the case. You get your brief and you have to come up with it. Oh my go. Practice loads at home And then you get then you send that you have to write the recipe like it's in a recipe, but with everything, including you know, every wooden spoon that you need. So it's all there for you on the day And then you go into the studio and they say that's there, That's there, like a checklist, you ye. And then the next time you're in, they say, let's cook and that's it. And the time is not fake. It's real. you know, when it's over, it's over So high pressured, if you care like I did, which I cared so much about it. but it was I just loved the energy of it I loved being allowed to be completely obsessed with food and like there was a pie round and I can't have made the pie less than twenty times.. I canot stop making this pie to the point where the school called one day. just I just built this pie and I was, this is the one Beautiful it was all lay, the pastry was perfect. And I put it in the oven, the school calls and said, yourour kid's fallen over from Bango's head on a bench. And I'm like, how bad is it though? Is he that bad? He said, Well, we're monitoring him for a minute. And then they called back two minutes later too go, We're calling an ambulance. I was like, Okaykay, I'll be there then I got home like pie clap. He was absolutely fine. But I was so in the zone and so so obsessed. I loved it. No. And you did Mastermind, didn't you? Oh, yeah. I did it twice. I did it twice. ye. How was that? that always absolutely terrified. It is so scary, but it was better the second time because I knew what to expect. It's a bit like what you were saying about things just being real I think the first time I went, I was like, o, well, if you need to go to the loooo, whilst you're on the chair, they're gonna let you go for free. And then it's just like, no, we're going to put the spotlight on you. You're going to answer the questions. We we're going to terrify you because it's part of Im U And I was doing early breakfast then on radio one so I was getting up at about three AM every day. And then I travelled from London to Manchester to film I was on my own And it was just like It's hands And I did Spice Girls as my subject matter. Yeah. And then tenen years later I was asked to go on it again And I was like, yeo, bring it on. And I took the family to Belfast where it's films now. And I had a bit more of a laugh with it and it didn't matter ifether I won or not, but I knew what to expect. And I did a completely different but still equally feminist subject matter And it's Pamela Coleman Smith, who's in my book who was like an esoteric fine artist and Cultest and which is very interesting, but it was so different to Spice Souts and really marked how much I've changed in those ten years, I think Do you find that you find it more difficult to write now now that you've got children and have you had to really adapt and change certain things, you with the kids I mean, I' I still feel like a rookie Rit is under two and I'm having another one in mid July just a month before my book comes out. It was a very lovely surprise. You were pans. I love you. I mean, I'm happy, but I'm still kind of in shock And yeah, I mean, working in general ness Yeah. it is crazy And I just really long for a world where childildca was a bit more accessible. And we did have the village and the tribe around us that we need. It would just be so nice I feel like there's so many of us. I go to the library for this regular event called Bookbug and there's songs and story timee I just see loads of us You know, parents like guys and women, like just everybody there just with their kids and everybody feels it feels like we feel the same. And I'm just like wondering to myself, like, why are we doing this so separately? Yeah But we still are I feel like we're in our homes like stressed and tie it. And I'm always trying to work out a way of living in a commune without actually living in a commune. And if you've got any ideas, let me know. H I did interrupt? It is like a tropical fruit Rouleard. So it's got mango, passion fruit. and there's a little it's topped off with a little Pisilis es Yeah. And it's got a little raspberry cooling deellic.. Thank you, sir. veryy we. Thank you. Are we allowed to ask a little food question? Yeah. Can I just ask how you got your chicken so juicy? Well, it's fried first and then like to seal it Take it out and then make the sauce, put it back in and cook it. I think a lot of the problem with the chicken is we cook it too much. Yeah. So I get a little probe, temperature probe. Just the right temperature. Yeah Bait and then just cook it in the sauce. Delicious. It was very nice. Thank you It was very juicy, son. than you. I do have a dancing baby in my tummy. He's happy with the food. I thoughtelt about having to rip the chicken away from you. That's why I ate it so quickly because I can see that it was leaving the table. That is delicious So if you were going to have a dinner party, who would be your people that you wouldd invite? They can be alive, they can be dead. I'm assuming each other would be Yeah Not to be sad but I bring Caroline back. Yeah. B dinner party guest of all time I think pretty much for me it would be most people would be alive and it would be our mates. It's like you me, Chris Cam. We used to do that as well. Yeah. L when we were in the same city, we would have these big, you and I would organize big dinners, notot necessarily at people's homes because there's loads of us. Go and take over a restaurant. I think we've talked about doing it as well with people that we don't actually know but we would like to hang out with. Yeah. I think it's so Brave and lovely to bring people together around the table. I think it's really important I love this kind of seventies dinner party vibe. Yeah me too. Yeah sitting there. Getting to know one another in that intimate way. it works. We think we're both the kind of people who love putting You should do, You should do this. it would be fantastic. We love putting people together. like we're both the kind of people who have connected lots of Lots of people who should know each other and have always loved the idea of like a monthly women's hang where we start off with like five people. It's off grid, this is not on Instagram. This is just for us but everyone which is connecting people and it's not just entertainment industry, it's just people who should meet and every week that you know those five people invite someone else and then it just grows and grows and grows. And then I love the idea at the end of every night, just one polaroid is taken of the night and all of those polaroids collected. And it's like This is the kind of fantasy thing that while we're in the trenches of parenting it iss not going to happen, but just have this such fantasy that we'll do that in the future. But just bringing people together and love. Living in a commune but not living in a commune. You know, actually communing I think that's a very, very lovely thing. Do Mind if we play a game. Love do it. I want to know a little bit about like you two in terms of this coming together yourself because it is a generous thing to do. Well, I mean, to be honest, I I thought we liked each other until we met you. Interesting. Ieresting now we realed. I thought we really liked each other. And now've' Y you made us just look like enemies Bective. I could tell immediately that you hate her. Yeah, I've realized now during this meal so anoy. I loathe her. No It's very obvious This has been really quite nice because I mean, we work with each other for years. but it's always been just on Gavvin and Stacy, isn't it? So we kind of are used to doing you the same kind of scenes and it's always like bickering or there's an argument or we make up or there's always And actually it's really nice just sitting down as you and me and getting to like chat And sounds really good cup. Yeah. Yeah as well, which is Very love. And so' it's been really nice, isn't it? had a lot of fun. Do you hang out off Mic Oh absolutely not. No.itally delete her number from your phone a second Theying. this is all the shout. No, no, we don't. I want a friendship like this I'. This is very transactional. Yeah, no we don't because I would say that I'm incredibly antisocial Id say it's because I've got four children. I mean they're like four, nine, eleven and thirteen. and I'm absolutely exhausted. What you're saying about, you know, having the village around, you just don't have it anymore. Yeah. I mean, I'm from Swanseie. so my parents are still in Swanseie, and you know I don't live ne there anymore. so you have be friends around you, but you are all sort of separate, aren't you? It's really hard. Yeah. and talking about career and making it work On the way into work this morning, as I was walking along the road to get here, I actually said the words. I was like looking at the mums taking their children to school. This mum walked past with the pram and in my head the words went through my head which said, I think I'm going to have to kiss goodbye to my career because I't want to kids So on that downap, It's hard. No, it's hard. It It's really hard. I've got a radio show starting on Saturday. I'm so happy about it. I literally wanted a radio show since the beginning of time. Which station? It's ClasskFM. L. But I I mean, how eccentric is that? Yeah, I know it's wonderful So it's wonderful. wll, it's going to be great. Are you doing it live? Yes, but've just I've just signed away forty eight weeks a year Saturdays with my young children. like that mum gilt is unbelievable and yet How cool for them to tune in and hear that. And so I know what you're saying, I think I'm just going to have to walk a here or you just keep doubling walk away or you just keep doubling down As as a woman, I can listen to you doing that and go, I think that's fantastic because you do need your own thing. You do need to be able to do that. and they will look at you and go Oh my god, that's just amazing, man, that's just brilli you think that' like one Saturday. you know, you've got like so much time with them. Yeah. But it's mad because you do have mum gils. So you yourself think, o my go, o my god. But there ass a woman looking, you know at there, I'm like, my go,'s amazing. Yeah. A friend of mine Roockown, who's incredible and an amazing artist in her own right just said to me all exists at the same time. and I just think that that's been the most truth like truthful thing that I've heard about this motherhood experience. Firstally, I find it really quite a psychedelic. L it's so Let have so many emotions happening at once. to be kind of terrified and so extremely blissful and all these things is so Wild. But I do think that It's exactly that. It's like having that moment of, okay, well, I'm going to be at home. That's my trajectory now And then literally an hour later thinking actually I've got a film in me, like Yeah Yeah. And I think that's really all okay and then it all needs to exist at once and We should just go on that ride because it's It's amazing And we're all going to be a bit tired But we're all gonna try our best to fulfill our artistic dreams And I think that's what retirement's all about, isn't it? We busted our blls and then once Well it was happening. So now you're kissing your career goodbye And your friendship. This is the end. This is it, this is our last episode. He I' to say about radio, this career for you, which I'm really excited about Radio is one of my truest loves in terms of a medium and a form of communication. It's going to be incredible because live radio is so fun. It's the best. It's so the best And You're so lucky for your hours. Yeah. You don't worry about twelve to three every Surday because when I used to do all these breakfast shows of which I did so many over the years. It comes to jealousy is that more dricks.ickly. Wh are you LA I remember thinking this is setting me up for being a mum one day ever because it's so on like the psyche to like get up and be like I haven't spoken to anyone else in the world I have to kind of perform And there's no, it's non negotiable. Yeah U So rel right No you're right Relish? The beauty of the show Yeah you've got. No you're right. No, you're absolutely right. you know what a breakfast show get it.get your game. Yeah sry. So we end the meal with a game.. And if you win, you will get a tea towel, which is just hanging on the door behind you. Fantastic. Series one And today's game Oh. All right. I like it. Oh go. You are gonna have to with a straw Harrya Gray to from a plate into a cup and then the other person in the team will take it from the cup to a plate. Great. o. so simple Okay Are we teams against each other? Okay. I like your fish neck glove, than. No, we're a business neck. We have a different glove every. What we have other part is, we need to wear fish neck gloves. Do you no we need to wear stockings? Yeah, I knew you're gonna h that. to the st. We just go to the pub and J we would just have like a hold up stockings on and I was like, you's so hot. What's happen? The years of Iy sleeves wereking. so good I find it very difficult to get enthusiastic about these games. Okay so m That's okay. They thust upon us not brief about this I don't have to say I like that.. You ready Are we gonna end up like hyperventilated blowen She is perfect I think I said I wasn't competitive about ten minutes ago, didn't I? J' gonna pass out. Recommended activity at this pregnan. Yeah. Don't go into labour because this is like done it. d. I was right. I liked it . My Godd. But that being. Oh wow. crazy now. Oh God. that was a natural high. J a little bit of asphyxiation there. Jaw' are around the table at the end of a dinner party, there we go. Oh God, thank you so much for coming in ourving. We'rejoyous. Thank you so much. by the way T Thanks so much for joining us on today's Table for four. Don't forget to give us a like and subscribe to the YouTube channel. And follow the podcast on Apple, Spotify or wherever you're listening. All the recipes from the series can be found on the Good Food app lovely. Wasn't it? The chicken. Those two love each other. Oh my gosh, that was so nice. I could have just listened to them bingging each other up all. Well, we did do that. Yeah. But just that friendship and that warmth And that womanhood and that support That was lovely. It was lovely. Itn't gorgeous. Yeah. And Gemma was getting quite tearful. I don't know whher that was whether that's normal or it's modes. Yeah. Oh, it was so sweet. But no they were great. I basically want Dawn to look after me forever I just wanted to go to her house and I want her to put me in a cocoon and I then want her to feed me. And then catch your vomit in her hands. Yes, that would make the end of perfect. I would love I mean, I think what we could sayply says is we'd like to be friends with both of them. Yes. Have you ever had a friend catch your vomit in their hands? No. Would you catch my vomit in your hands No. I bet you would. I'd just like you to be sicking to the bin.