Energy Bill Communication and Transparency

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Listen now wherever you get your BBC podcasts For the sixty seven billion pounds in lost asset pensions. You can get that money back. Really important people understand that. Once bought a coat in a car boot sale for five pounds, and I found nine pounds in the pocket. I mean, it's literally the smell of money, wasn't it? I mean, it's p Hello, I'm Martin Lewis and this is the cunningly named The Martin Lewis podcast And this is our big topic episode where each week we lead on one main subject to help you save. Usually most of it comes from my BBC radio five live show with Adrian Chil, though Stehan Powell was sitting in for it this week, but there's also bonus money saving tips and Q and A's just for you lucky lucky podcast listeners. Let's do it Yes, Martin is here Hello, Martin. How's it going? How are you? I'm doing very well. Thank you very much. We've got a lot to get through today and we're going to do something slightly different when we're starting off. We're talking about the tellers first. So the tellers this week because have you ever found money you didn't know you had? Where was it hiding? How did you lose it? and what did you do with it? We've got lots of responses from the trivial to the massive, but that inspired me to change the theme of the podcast. M people talking about getting back Tens of thousands of pounds in lost pensions, lost bank accounts, lost investments. So we're going to start by focusing on the eighty seven billion eighty seven thousand million pounds that is sitting out there that people have lost touch with in bank accounts, pensions, child trust funds, premium bonds and more. And what you can do to check if you are owed some of that eighty seven billion pounds Then we were bl on two weeks ago. Well, we were talking about what would happen in the energy price capap. We've had announcement of the energy price capap And the energy price cap is going up by thirteen percent. But let me make it plain is a voluntary increase for many people You do not have to pay the extra thirteen percent. You can easily avoid it and you can do it right now. I'll be talking you through the details of that and going through lots of people's questions And then Stefan It's your first money mastermind. I'm a bit excited. I'm a bit worried I'm excited and I'm worried. I'm not gonna lie to you because' I need to listen. And listen very carefully today, Martin,'s hear in your voice. Yes. And I'll be honest I like it. So I've written a money Mastermind just for you. I'm going to tell you the subject it's on because it's actually quite important. It's about student loans, you know and somebody who is your age and I think studied law at Cardiff University. Oh someone's been on Wikipedia. Very good Marty. So you would have a Plan one student loan, so I'm sure you would have known exactly what that's about But I'm then going to move that on to be talking about have you overpaid your student loan and up to five million people are due money back from overpaid student loans. But Stehan don't necessarily read anything into what I've just said when it comes to the answers to the question. Okay, I mean I definitely am. Thank you very much, Martin, M for Martin in a second. I actually very excited to be hon with you because this thing's been before we get we'll get into the tell us very, very soon, but I've been seeing this thing on my social media all the time. and I wonder if you've seen this or people raise this with you as a thing or whether it's nonsense or not. I wonder what you're taking It's got social media in it. so I'm starting nonsense straight away people I see loords of posts where people are saying like, o, if you lived in the nineties and you earned X amount of money Today you would have to earn five times that amount in order to have the same standard of living. you say know it says like if you earn fifty grand in nineteen ninety eight, you need to earn a quarter of a million pounds to have the same standard of living these days Do you see a lot of that sort of advocation of the changes in people's wealth I mean, I'm I First of all, the problem with that most social media stats and I remember someone sent me one about energy bills across Europe and they had this big poster with this authorative looking poster and it showed how Britain was three times more expensive than energy bills across Europe. It just was complete nonsense. I mean we had Germany as being the cheapest and Germany just wasn't even close. I mean and arguably Germany was slightly more expensive at the time this was sent to me. And I just said, where's the source? These things aren't sourced. So I would like to know. I think it's always important to ask where that information's coming from. Certainly if it's saying five fful And again, what do we mean by changing standard of living? Because I mean, I certainly didn't have a mobile phone with a screen on it at the time And I didn't have AI And I didn't have lots of other technological advantages. I could probably fly slightly about the same as I did then because the O P flights came in in the early nineties, not into the nineties So it's difficult, but if they're talking about home ownership and aspiration for young people, then I think that has absolutely got much more difficult You know, if they're talking about the income that pensioners have, then I think pensioners tend to have quite substantially more relative income now than they used to do. So just I think a lot of those things come from sort of a political stance of trying to make a point and you actually have to question and get into them. None of that is to ignore many of the problems that people are having, certainly younger people trying to start out their lives and get into the same home ownership schedule as their parents or grandparents I mean, I don't know specifics of what you're talking about, but I would Treat it with aunk of saptism. Absolutely. it's good to hear that from you because it seems to be it's on I don't send me one next time. nextxt time I find one, I'll send it to you because it's on Maybe my algorithm knows me And he's like send to. I know he's going to do. He's gonna to rip me a. He's gonna rip me a. He's going to tear me in two before I get to of him. I don't know why I've got al Murri, but we'll go for it for anyway You're into it now I think my algorithm is like there's a working dad of two. I know what he wants. That's what he's doing speaking to me. Also what he wants is a board game called a Sky teeam. I'll tell you about off fair because otherwise we could spend the next hour talking about this fantastic g ners, but quity money, Stehan Cro yourself. Yes, quite Tell us about the tellell us then, Martin. So the tellers this week because have you ever found money you didn't know you had? Where was it? What did you do with it? Could it have been old accounts? We gotten refunds, pension ps, gift cs, loyalty points or a mystery check. Now actually, when I went through these, they were split, I say I went through these. Proucers Simon went through these and gave me a shortlist. Let's be honest, break the fourth world. there's a split though. between So the big meaty stuff, pensions loss assets and the other stuff, you know, the find is down the back of the sofa and some really interesting stories. But we're gonna focus on the meaty stuff now. and we've got three to start with. So why don't you do David first, if you want to? Yes, Okay. so David had a contracted out pension pot from a previous employer in two thousand four, where they paid in for several years But he says I canceled my own payments, forgot about it until around two years ago, and then it had grown from twenty two thousand to over eighty nine thousand. That's not bad, David is it Well, the sixty seven billion pounds in lost asset pensions. i. e. I mean, the definition of lost assets can depend. it can be over seven years if you've not been in contact or that the institution can't contact you and no longer has its address. sixty seven billion I've had people get in touch. I'm going to talk in a moment about how you find lost pensions and where you check over one hundred fifty thousand pounds in a pension they didn't know, something they were paying into forty years ago when they started work and didn't remember. and then they truck it down and suddenly I mean, it is enormous money. So David is a wonderful example of that. At least he remembered, whereas most people don't even know where that pension is or what it's about. and that's why we need to reconnect them. this is about reconnecting. We're going to reconnect people, but we're going to try and reconnect people with their money.. I'll do the next one. I don't actually have a name for this one I think it was anonymous. so My brain was so scrambled by chemotherapy. that I forgot about a building society account One day, passing the Building Society, I vaguely remembered once having an account there I went in to ask and it turned out there was thirty one thousand pounds I'd forgotten about And it's still in there. Wow It is it is a wow that just a slight decide. It will go I was just gonna say like, imagine Ls we're in the pools, isn't it Iagine remembering when went in all of a sudden you find you got thirty one thousand pounds you didn't have, that's could be life changing. You would be more and this is exactly what we're going to go into because there I mean just go I just want to do the number again. eighty seven. billion of lost assets. eighty seven thousand million pounds The only thing about this particular one when you me and you read it is the it's the last bit. it's still there And I'm sitting there going Yeah, well, look, if it's a building society account from twentyenty years ago, the rate's going to be absolutely pants You need to move that at least at least to somewhere where you're earning, you know a top easy access account somewhere like whether it's Chase or trading two hundred eel and putting it in a cash iser or doing something with it, mayaybe thinking about investing it so it grows even quicker. But hey Anyway, you've got another think. Yeah, this is from Rose who says my eighty three year old stepdad had a letter recently from Scottish Widows out of the bllue, asking if he had contact details for his ex wife as they were trying to contact them both about a policy they'd taken out when he married her over fifty years ago. He remembers he put two hundred pounds in a policy. after doing some research online as my stepdad didn't have any details for his ex wife and he's been married to my mum for thirty five years We found out that she'd passed away. The policy has now been transferred to my stepdad after he obtained a copy of her death certificate and recently they' wrote back saying there is sixteen thousand pounds in there I mean Hopefully with all that, we have wetted people's appetites enough to understand that there is a real chance, especially the older you are, especially if you've moved house many times, which is absolutely one of the clues here. If you didn't update your contact details, if you've changed your job If your pension provider specifically or your investment company has merged or renamed, You are intentially likely to get money. justust to say on a pension, the average value of a lost assets is nine and fivealf thousand pounds So we need to try and get people their money back. Yeah. So we are talking big, you know, these are big numbers here Martin whher we're knocking on are they. So what should people be doing then about finding these pensions and an investmentsment. Well lets we'll start with pensions We'll start with pensions. To find your lost pension for free, you want to try and dig out any of your old paperwork and try contacting your ex employers first because it would tend be through your ex employer to find out who the scheme is. If you can do that, then you're getting in touch with them, you're providing ID and you're going through. And by the way, you might also in some cases, though it's more difficult and because of the way that pensions work, they're not necessarily always forwarded on, you might want to claim it for a deceased person too or to see if there's a way to track it. If you don't have any luck, there's a free pension tracing service on gov. Uk. that includes over two hundred thousand schemes That will do You'll use it to locate the scheme that you were in whether it's changed name, who the employer was, you put your details in and it should try and locate that for you thenen you're going to contact that scheme and ask, here's my details, hereere's when I was with you as best as you possibly can Do you have a pension in my name and they're going to try and reconnect you. You will almost certainly need to provide ID to show that you is you Be clearly you don't want other people taking your money when it comes out there So that's the first place I would try for bank accounts somethinghing separate My Lost account, which is a joint venture from UK Finance, the Building Society Association and NSNI, which is the state backed financial institution that includes premium bonds, and there are lots of people out touch with their premium bonds too So you can go to My Lost accccounts website, you can select from a range of financial institutions you think you might have had an account with and they will send a letter with your information to see if it comes up with a match. If there's a match ' write to you with the next steps If you don't know the Bank or Building Society it might have beeneen with, it will recommend doing a search of the largest five, which is HSBC, Barcadies, Lloyds, Nat West and Santanda onlyn slight difficulty with my lost account is It has to be denoted a lost account which is a sort of technical thing for the amount of time you have been out of contact with it. So if it's slightly shorter, but you're not in touch, it won't find you on my lost account. And now I'm going do the catchle service which is an argument I should have done first I've sort of 've gone through the two more official services first, if you like And then we get a Fintech firm called Grettel that was set up in twenty twenty two. And the way it makes its money is Banks, building societies, investment firms and others have a legal duty to try and find and reconnect with people who have lost accounts And what they do is they pay Gretel as their way of fulfilling that legal duty and because they can do it via Gretel more cheaply than they could do it by themselves and they're subcontracting it out there. So what you can do is you can go and create a Gretl account, use your email address and password. You'll need to enter your name, date of birth, phone number, postcode, it'll send you a verification email, all the usual stuff Once activated, Gretel will run a soft search on your credit report. won't impact your credit score. It'll be a soft search. so you'll see it on your credit file, but it won't impact your ability. Lenders won't see it. to find any previous addresses ask you to confirm these, then it will run a search for missing bank accounts, investments, shares, pensions, life insurance and child trust funds, which I need to come on in a moment With initial results in a few minutes and you'll be able to see the search matches on your dashboard, it will then search every fourteen days for new contacts. I need to explain it's not perfect because it's only about the ones that it works with does cover a particularly wide range and it is a pretty good catch all service that I've had quite a lot of success from. Yeah. So if you just want the easy route, but you know, it's a profit making company that's paid three rather than the official sources, go through Grettel. Right. fininal one Sorry I'm monologing. No, no, is n this is good I'm' writing it down, you? You're going to go do Gret later I can tell, by the way you responded to that. Absolutely. So child trust funds. Now the child trust fund is the predecessor of the junior Ricer. It was a tax free savings account, but crucially the state started it off with two hundred fifty quid for most young people Right If you had a child trust fund, if you were born between the first of september two thousand two And the second of january twenty eleven. Are either of your kids in that age group? No, they're too young. They're too young. So they they wouldn't have had one and the state no longer put money in Now the key is Over seven hundred fifty thousand child trust funds have matured, i e, the child is now eighteen because you'll be eighteen to twenty three on those dates And they are likely holding a collective one point six billion pounds in seven hundred fifty thousand accounts that have been lost track of. So there are seven hundred fifty thousand young people aged between eighteen and twenty three who are sitting on an average of two thousand two hundred pounds, but don't know about it because it would have been state money. Now the average is two thousand two hundred How much you have in depends on whether your parents added money to it, whether it was an investment, which would have tended to outperform savings. So some people might find three hundred, some people might found five thousand for this. Go on to HMRCs tool. You need a government gateway ID just to find your child trust fund If you're sixteen or older, you can do it yourself If you're eighteen or under, your parents can do it for you. So if you're under sixteen, your parents have to do it for you. You put your details in, you put your national insurance number in, and it will tell you who your child trust fund provider is and then go and see how much money you've got Unbelievable. Three quarters of a million eighteen to twenty three year olds, we started this by talking about generational issues Yeah, but three quarters a million have potentially two thousand two hundred pounds they don't know about I think that's blown my mind more Martin than the eighty seven billion I think Yeah, because because I think the EDM Billet that is a lot of money sort of that has been quote unquote, lost. but I sort of you can sort of understand how that happens or whatever. But this is This is cash that's there that you couldnt sort of access now. You can access now and almost everybody who's lost track of it, your account will not be good Because you haven't been managing it, you've not chosen to put it in the right place. It's automatically matured and gone into a sort of default account on the back of it. And you need, even if you don't need access to the money now, you want to be making sure that it's in the right place. that it all stemm back from mean it was a Gordon Brown policy, this two hundred fifty pound sort to kickstart every child on an equality basis, although of course parents could act to it, so there was still an inequality that was built into that And it's just because people didn't really sort of take hold of it or note of it in some cases that it's just got lost track of. And so As I say, let's just do the crucial dates. First of september, two thousand two to the second of January twenty eleven if you know somebody of that age and you have the right appropriate relationship with them to say it, or if you're of that age thenen you should be checking on gov. Uk findind My childild Trust fund if you're not aware where that money is Yeah. It good advice for Martin. Anything else to add on this stuff or you we ready to move on to your big topic? No, I think we're done. I think we can move on to the big topic. although yeah, the only thing I would say is if you do find stuff, do let us know Yeah he really could good get in touch. Martin Lewis podcast at bc d. co. Uk. I'd love to hear it always give me a little bit of a thrill when I know that you know, we've done something and it's worked Right then here is our main topic, Eergy bills. No matter you were on under the edge of a fortnate ago last and you were predicting for the new energy price cap, here it is. The rise is going to be about thirteen percent. Now I say about thirteen percent, it could be twelve percent, it could be fourteen percent, but it's going to be somewhere in that ballpark unless something radical happens. And we've just heard from the Chancellor there is not going to be any intervention in the July price cap. So people are going to see those people who are on the price cap anyway are going to see that prices rise by thirteen percent in July. So here are the scores on the doors. Last week it dws by thirteen percent nailed it Martin, canan you please give me the loty numbers for the weekend? No we are them please. thirteen point four percent it was exactly if we're going to be really, really accurate. You know what, let's be really accurate. Unlucky next time you get closer. No, no, I think you'll find that thirteen point four percent rounds down to thirteen percent and I was just doing it to the nearest percent. I'm still scoring that up as an absolute win That's it It's probably worth explaining to people how I knew It's because I'm really, really clever. No, it's not A It's because. Well, first of all, I rely on analyst predictions. But it's actually important to understand how we know what's going to happen in the price capap because it's important for where we go in future Energy priceices under the price cap, which of course only applies to those default standard tariffs people are on in England, Scotland and Wales that do nothing tariff. The I haven't switched tariff, the my fix ended and I didn't do anything again The energy price cap is set based on a mix of policy costs which is about sixty percent of it, policy costs, admin cost, profit for the companies, et ccetera. And forty percent of it is the underlying wholesale rates, the sort of world markets in gas and electricity But that forty percent is the main delta, the main changeable factor in the energy price gap So it's by monitoring what's happening to those wholesale prices that you can predict the price gap. What's important to understand is the price capap works on a timelap So the July price cap The wholesale rates that matter on mid February to mid May. It's actually looking two to five months back and is working on a big time delay So when we did that show, which was two weeks ago The assessment period had closed the day before. so we had all the data of wholesale rates in the three month assessment period So once you plug that into the algorithm that is a published algorithm by the regulator offGem to set the price cap, The only variables are left are are there going to be any policy changes? And we do seeough there was a ten pound policy change in there, ten pound a year added on annual bills within that, which but that's relatively trivial this time round. The previous price cap the April, the main change came from taking policy costs off bills, one hundred fifty pound policy costs off bills. So this time, as there' been no pre announced policy changes and it's sort of those of us who talk to OGem relatively frequently, you know when something big is going to come You could assume that the main change was going to come from the wholesale rate change. We already knew that. so thirteen percent was a pretty safe prediction. I mean and the reason I said it could be twelve, it could be fourteen is because of potential policy changes. Yeah that's right This is also crucially why If I go on And I often do It's also crucially why we're now looking at the October price gap See, the truth about the July price cap is The July price cap lasts until the end of September. That's three months, but it's the lowest use period of the year. We only use about fifteen percent of our energy in that twenty five percent, it's a quarter of a year. that twenty five percent of the year. So the actual impact of a thirteen percent rise on a typical bill, slightly nonsense, it's an average figure. Let's call it an average bill is about twwelve to fifteen pounds a month. So about forty five quid over the three months good. noody wants it but not catastrophic The real issue is the October and the January price caps, the high use period Now it's important for to people to understand. Rember I said that time lag T lag means we are already in the assessment period for the October Priice cp. Now, which seems really weird because we haven't even got to the start of the July price gap And we're already, I'm now talking about October And we're getting on for two and a half weeks through the thirteen week assessment period And it works based on an average So literally, if you think about it E day matters. You even if prices dropped, I should make the big point. The last two and a half weeks's prices the whesale rates have been really high. They've been really high. doesn't go away. If prices drop now, you've still got, even if they dropped like a stone today two and a half of the thirteen week period has been high The problem is we don't think they are going to drop, certainly not without any substantial change in the Middle East. So the current prediction for October And it is somewhat crystal ball gazing, as you can understand hopefully by the time period I'm talking about, but the current prediction coming from the analysts for October is another twocent to three percent rise Top of the July rise. Right E and I know what questions we've got coming through for everything is really important to understand. We've got the current price cap Rising thirteen point four percent in July ed to rise twocent to three percent in October And I should note, even if the Middle East conflict ended today because it will take time for gas to come through It is almost inconceivable unless of some major worldwide issue that we haven't predicted, that the October price capap will be less than the current price capap. So even if it doesn't go up from the July price cap is inconceivable it'll be less than the current price cap. So it's going to be higher. and the likely prediction it's going to go up and then the January price cap, which is even more crystal Ball gazing, is likely to stay the same. So prices If you're on the price cap, the default tariff, you are going to likely pay substantially more than now. until at least next March. Yeah. Well let's stay with that sort of crystal ballgazing theme a little bit with Dave's question here. He says that the price cap always seems to rise as you've been explaining there. Will there be a time where it will be reduced? asks Steve I think I just need to be really factual here. The price cap does not always rise I know it feels like it does. In fact, I'm going to try and do an audiograph if I can, because I've just scrolled and I've got it in front of me Let's go back T Winter twenty twenty twenty twenty one because the price cap currently changes every three months. It used to change every six months. The companies push the regulator to change it every three months. I opposed it. I think it was a mistake. You know people want if youve got a price cap, they want to see it locked in for longer. I still think it's a mistake. Now moves every three months Let me just try and give you the numbers based on the typical use as now, not the new typical use figure coming in July of what the price cap was. So try and do the pattern So this is for twenty, twenty, twenty one nine hundred and ninety Then it moved one thousand and eighty. Then it moved one thousand two hundred and twenty. So we're now in winter twenty one twenty two Then it moved and this was the start of Ukraine one thousand eight hundred and eighty. They were in the midst of Ukraine three thousand three hundred and seventy. But this is when the energy price guarantee was put in that actually capped it, subsidized bills so people only pay two thousand five hundred. This is all on typical use, which is of course totally meaningless, but it gives you scale of magnitude. Then it moved four thousand and sixty Then in spring twenty twenty three, three, one hundred twenty, now it's moving every three months, then one nine and eighty, one eight thirty, one nine thirty, one six ninety. one five seventy, That's the cheapest we've had it, which is in summer twenty twenty four. backack up, one seven twenty, one seven hundred forty, one eight fifty, backack down in summer twenty twenty five, one seven hundred twenty, then in autumn, one seven sixty, one seven sixty Th then in April this year down one six hundred forty and now for the summer up one eight sixty. It does go up and down. does go up and down, the idea it only goes up isn't correct. And you know If you contrast where it is right now one six hundred forty, of course it's going to be going up with the highest at four hundred sixty, it does move down. And I think the trajectory until the Middle East conflict was actually downwards. So the Middle East conflict has changed that. My hope is by next spring We will go back to where we were. I mean, it's not I'm not great shakes. sixteen hundred quid typical bill, even if we go back to where we were it' still very expensive when it used to be nine hundred ninety. I don't see us getting below the fifteen hundred pounds mark though. Yeah. Okay not in theent. Did that make sense? Did that graphic? D could you hull follow it? Yeah yeah, absolutely. was a big I didn't realize there was actually quite that much of a spike actually, I you remember that it spikeked aroundad that time of Ukraine war and have you but when you hear the numbers like it didn't actually spike. So that's the complexity. So I was giving you the price cap The price cap was capped by this energy price guarantee The basic rule was If the price gap is above two thousand five hundred pounds on typical use, then we're going to keep the unit rates of what two thousand five hundred pounds on typical use would be and the states subsidize the difference Had we not had that, the price would have gone up to four thousand sixteen. and we've got lots more of your energy questions to answer later on in the pod ell us which is all about the times you found money when you've forgotten about it. Maybe it's down the back of a sofa or in a pension fund, you've forgotten all about. We've had lots of people messaging Martin and everyone that Shane's been on saying when my dad came home at night, he would empty his pockets of change on the stairs. Without him knowing, my mum would take a pound his coins, put them in a post office account that's shortburned And when she died, my dad found that the account book was there and it was worth seventeen thousand pounds. goodness. seeen thousand pounds. Thats A lot of change. It's a lot of change. It's domestic nudge economics that Soft economics trying to get people to bo. I like this one from Basel Basel Once bought a coat in a car boot sale for five pounds And I found nine pounds in the pocket most profit. Look at that. What what's not to like? That is win win there, Baz. That is literally money creation. That's a magic money coat right there. And I'm assuming it was a nice court as well, Baza because you made the choice in. bought it. Yeahah Yeahah in a carboat. And we've got Polly on the line in from yourville and near yourille Hey Poll, you're right? Hi. Hi Polly. Where did you find your stash of cash, Polly Well, I was changing centered drawliners in my underwear dw And I lifted it up the old liners. so I thought it wass about time I change them. And I found a white envelope and it was stuffed full of cash And it had my handwriting on the front and my husband's handwriting. It had things like forty pound petrol, thirty five pounds school trips I thought, Wh on earth does this come from? And we'd moved house over a year before, and then we sat and thought about it. We sold some large bits of furniture that wasn't going to fit in the new house Sos all the big sulfur big for Ceta And a guy came and paid cash. We put the cash in the envelope and forgot about it and we were just about to go on holiday. So this is always been known now with Nicodraw cash. So we spent the Nicadraw cash on my husband was playing a lot of golf when we were away and I got new headphones. I could listen to podcasts on the beach. includluding the Monte Limouis Money podcast Absolutely. And now when we go away, we say how much have we got for Nicadraw cash? people don't know what we're talking about, but it's now known your holiday spends is now onn as N could draw cash. So I think there's a few things we need to interrogate here. I'm very tempted to go into the scented draw thingsings Right. Yeah, do the centage I'm probably going a little bit too intimate here, but do the centage draw things only go in the knicker drawer or Do they go in all drawers C,' only going in the Nicked roll be too much, wouldn't it probably be too much work otherwise? Well it's a big old wooden tall boy. so you know they're not the smoothest of surfaces. so you put liners in there. And they're often scentage. and I thought, God, they've been in there for years and years If I hadn't lifted it up, I might have sold that piece of furniture and lost money, I could draw cash as well, but I haven't. No, I mean, it's literally the smell of money, wasn't it? I mean it's absolutely Let's be plain here You're talking obviously quite a lot of money. How did you forget Oh, well, I'll tell you how we forgot this the house move was when we moved into the Somerset levels And we moved in on the day that the levels were closed for flooding back in the bad floods of twenty thirteen. We moved in on Christmas Eve and we were the last vehicle across the flooded land before they shut the gate at Muchchinley. You know where Prince Charles came? and there was a white car underwater? and it was all horrible flooding. So we moved house We had a house, we had a business to reopen. We had a lot going on So we were for us to forget something like that is perfectly forgivable. It was a very stressful time. But it was great and we enjoyed living there. We'd actually just moved outouse again And I checked all the drawers this time before we moved out. Before we got rid of any furniture or anything, I checked all the drawers in case I've done it again. I just like it being yes, your knickers were in drawers. It still seems to work. Absolutely Yeah. Nicka drawer cash is the way to go. Well, Pollly, we now have hundreds of listeners, thousands of listeners across the country checking their knicka drawers instantly. to make sure there's no spare cash down there. Polly, thank you very much for sharing your story with us and letting us hear all about your Nicidw on n National Radi. And there are obviously so many jokes we could do relating to that ser Listeners. if you come up with those jokes, please feel free to write them down and keep them to yourself. Yes. We're rising above it here on five keep keeping the you know, keeping the decorum high. Right. shhall we return to some to one more. We do one more which just to do Ash Yeahah, that's a good one. it's a one foundound three hundred pounds walking up a farm track as a kid, went to the post office to spend my riches on sweets to find a distressed older lady crying about losing her pension money she'd just drawn out. So I found it, but I lost it very quickly. I thinkink I ended up with a fivever or a ten as a finder's rewards. But you ended up being a good person now. Yes. And you did at night. Yeah done't you. Yeah, good man Ash You might not have won in cash terms, but you definitely won in moral terms Exactly. Yeah, sleeping well at night Lords more energy bill questions. Martin. Should we go with Shayan then? And he's talking about the price capital rising again? What are the key factors people should consider before deciding whether to fix or stay on the standard variable tariff The only key factor I would be considering right now is whether you should whether you can get off the cap price cap So if you can, I would get off it. Let's just go very plain. Let's go back to what I said earlier The energy price cap where it is now is going to rise thirteen point four percent on average in July And it's just worth noting, by the way, when I'm talking about those averages that we're going into It's actually the gas unit rate. The standing charge is sayaying about the same. The gas unit rate is going up twenty eight percent The electricity unit rate is going up six percent. So the more you use and the more you use gas, the even bigger your rise will be. thirteen percent is an average of the two. So anyway, it's going up thirteen percent in July. It's predicted to go up further in October, but it is almost unthinkable. it won't at least be higher than it is now even if the Middle East conflict changes Much further out, it's going to stay pretty high in January based on current predictions, but that is a crystal ball You can currently lock in, there are three companies offering fixes cheaper than the current price cap So if you are on the price cap and I need to be very plain, this only applies to people on the price cap. I also need to be plain if you're not on a fix if you're not on a special deal. You are on the price cap When I do this question, when I do talks, I ask people who are on the price cap, they don't know. The answer is unless you know you're on a fix or a special deal, you are on the price cap sixty percent of you. So you can do a fix right now that locks in your rate for the next year at up to depending exactly how you're going and get it, up to four percent cheaper than the current price g Now that's not a huge saving, but once the price gap goes up thirteen percent, then think of the difference and it's going to stay that rate. So I need to be plain The rise in July only applies to firms bog standard tariffs Fixes are not price cap they will not rise So if you are on the price cap and you can get off it Get off it The reason I say if you are is people on prepayment meters and payment in receipt bills, I'm afraid there are no cheap fixes you will be able to get to The cheap fix is available, some need smart meters, some don't need smart meters Very important, don't just go to your own energy companies fix. There is a huge difference between the amount that energy companies are charging for the cheapest fixes at the moment. When I say lock in a cheap fix, I want it to be a cheap one. I want it to be one that's cheaper than the current price gap, which if you're on the price cap and you do a comparison, you'll be able to see. Even if it saves you one quid, it's cheaper. so you want to lock into one of those And you have to do it v a comparison site because your cheapest depends on where you live and how much you use. There's no point me listing tariffs for you, and you preferably want to go to a whole of market comparison site by default. But if you don't, because there's only one of those and I'm not allowed to mention it, if you don't, the really important thing to understand is many of the cheapest deals at the moment do not pay comparison sites And most comparison sites e th those are hold of market, hide the tariffs that don't pay. So if you go on a comparison site, check somewhere, check on the menu or check on the bottom. if there's a button that says and it will set with this level of volume and intensity and aggression so you find it So there's a button that says Tick the button that says showh all tariffs So you're actually getting a whole market comparison because otherwise right now, especially some of those cheapest fixes will be missing Mine you have ever thought about doing an ESMR? that Yeahah, I was quite in that. Beacause that was very soothing. That was very nice. I think it could be a market in that. It could be I mean it'd be a very, very strange market. Yeah. I mean, a perverse market, but it' be a market. No, sadly for me, the mastermind is coming up soon, but let's see if we can squeeze Ania's question first. I'm on a variable with a utility warehouse. and last week asked them to switch me to fixed But they say they can only do this if I agree to have a smart meter installed Is it legal for them to ask me to do that? I don't want a smart meter, but I want to switch off variable Yes, it is legal. You can make having a smart meter a requirement of a specific tariff. You can't do it on the price cap, but it can be a requirement of having a specific tariff. And if utility warehouse are doing that, then it is legal for them to do so. I should note, utility Warehouse are a multi utility provider that in normal times tend to offer their cheapest rate if you also get their other products. So you tend to have to have your phone with them or your mobile with them or something like that in order to get their cheapest rates. They're not coming up particularly cheaply in the comparison sites at the moment They are not one of the three companies that have the cheapest fix out you know, Eotricity Outfox, EN are the ones I'm talking about Ofox and Eon will let you get a fix cheaper than the price cap without needing a smart meter. I should say I'm not anti smart meter, I think smart meters can be pretty useful. You can see what you're using, so you're able to monitor your electricity yourself. You don't have to do meter readings for yourself which makes the system a monthly direct debit much easier. There is a problem that too many smart meters are broken and I've been pushing the government to try and change the way that it incentivizes companies instead to stop incentivizing them just to install them, but incentivize them to actually make them work as well but I'm far less anti smart meters than the caller sounds, but if you don't want a smart meter, there are fixes where you don't need them. We will do more energy questions in the pod. I know there's about lots, lots more and many more subjects, peoplee talking about I'm fixed longer away if I'm on a fix, shouldh I get off that fix and fix again? I'll do all that in the pod But Stehan now playay that music. I don't like it It's going be fine. I don't like it. It's not gonna be fine. Stepfan, welcome. You're a money mastermind virgin. but don't worry, it's just a simple three option multiple choice quiz. Let's see how you do Now, everybody, I want you to picture a man with let's say, a regular job on Fridays He's incredibly excited as he's sitting in for a colleague and has a sexy new temporary assignment Yet Jeopardy awaits. He will be running his reputation up a flagpole to be machine gun fired at. The outcome could be Ka carnage. Do you hear that Stefan? Ka carnage. Ohoshar it. Luckily In order to do it, he gets a huge danger money bonus. Not really, this is the BBC. it's not actually happening, but let's go with it because it helps the question So imagine this man is thirty eight years old, went to university, let's say to study law, maybe to a Welsh uni, let's say Cardiff That means he'd almost certainly be on a plan one student loan. If it's not clear yet I think we know who we're talking about. Now plan one just to say Annual repayment threshold of planlan one is twenty six thousand nine hundred pounds. Wite that down Is he down? twentyenty six thousand. Yeah. And with all as with all undergraduate plans, you repay nine percent of everything earned above that. Yeah yeah So here is the question. This man, he's a fictional man, any resemblance to characters who maybe I'd be maybe talking to are totally coincidental. He earns a steady eighteen thousand pounds a year, which is fifteen hundred pounds a month, which is below Pan one threshold But because of the danger money, he gets a one off twelve thousand pound bonus in one monthly paypacket taking his total annual earnings to thirty thousand pounds. My question how much of that bonus would be taken for his student loan Are you with me? Yes. S Tap tap I'm going to give you multiple choice but let's just check you've got it. Yeah. So basically, thanks to the twelve thousand pound bonus, his annual income would have been thirty thousand, but all that twelve K came in one month And the threshold is twenty six nine thousand nine hundred six thousand. So here are your options. A As it's based on the yearly income and he earns thirty thousand pounds total He will pay nine percent of the three thousand one hundred pounds above the threshold which is two hundred and seventy nine pounds It is taken on the monthly amount, not the annual amount. The monthly threshold is a twelfth of twenty six thousand nine hundred So it's two thousand two hundred and forty. He earned thirteen thousand five hundred that month. nine percent of the extra is one thousand and thirteen pounds. See, taken on the monthly amount, But at the tax year end, he can ask for a refund of the difference so that he only paid nine percent above the annual amount, so he is due therefore a seven hundred thirty four pound refund So in the simple terms in A, it's based on the annual amount, in B, it's based on the month amount, and C it's taken on the monthly amount but refunded based on the annual amount I hereere's my logic for the answer you win it. Youve the question. I've got the question, I've got the options My sense is that it's going to be the most complex option possible. So I'm going to say see that it is on the annual amount, but it takes it on the monthly amount and you can claim a refund Are you locking that in? coming up attention? It is locked. I'm locking that in, please, but So Stefan, you've locked your answ in you're saying St, it' taken on the monthly amount but you can get a refund based on the annual amount. So the first thing to say is when you pay your student loan The amount that's taken through PAYE is based on the monthly threshold. How much you earn above a twelfth of the annual threshold is what is taken. So the answer could be be or it could be seen But I'm afraid, unfortunately for you and unfortunately for many people repaying their student loans, in this case, you would not be due a refund You would have to pay it on the monthly amount, give him a Afraid to get it wrong. You're notu for bom. But actually this is really important There is a nuance in here that people need to understand There are five million people, I would estimate who've overpaid their student loans in the last five years. one million, according to the Freedom of information, over a million, who've overpaid it in the last year alone. And the biggest category by far Almost the scenario I gave you The biggest category by far is you repaid the loan in some months not earning enough in the tax year So if we change the question slightly and say that the bonus was seven thousand pounds twelve thousand pounds. So your total earnings were twenty five thousand pounds which is less than the annual threshold but you would have still in the month you got the bonus because you had that, you know, that Freaky one month income. Yeah They would have taken five hundred and sixty three pounds off you, which is nine percent above the monthly threshold once you have the seven thousand pounds added onto your normal typical fifteen hundred pounds earning. You' with me? Yeah, I've got you You would have been able to reclaim it becausecause your total earnings are under the threshold But we have this bizarre cliffhanger that even if you earned only one pound above the annual threshold But you hadd had all that income in one month, then you would have been paying on the monthly proportion and pay way too much So that is unfortunately for you and unfortunately for people listening how it works, but really, really big this. onene million and seventy four thousand five hundred twenty one people in twenty twenty four or twenty five Tax year, the most recent year I have the data for overpaid the loan in some months despite not earning enough in the tax year. If that is you You can that and reclaim it. And you can reclaim it online for all the past years that this happened with, although you need to can only do it for a tax year that has now ended. So you can be doing this up to the most recent tax year. They might just be in for the sixth of april twenty twenty five. It might not. it just depends on your account A couple of other reasons you may have overpaid your student loan They put you on the wrong student loan payment plan So by default, they put you on planan one, which is your student loan, even though far more people are on planan two, which is for anyone who started university between twenty twelve and twenty twenty three. Podcast producer Simon H. Martin sent me a note to say he should have specified planan two is for those who started between twenty twelve and twenty twenty three in England and Wales that other UK nations are on different plans to it then plan one threshold Is you repay nine percent above twenty six thousand nine hundred The plan two is you paid nine percent above twenty nine thousand three eight five If you were wrongly on plan one and earning twenty nine grand, you should not have repaid your student loan, but the money would have been taken Reason number three, you started repaying your student loan too early. You're usually only eligible to start repaying in the April after you left your course. Most people leave in July, next April, so it's nine months. But if your employer didn't have the right information about when you left university, they could start taking money too soon. That happened to thirty seven thousand people in the last tax year we know. And the last one which is quite common but less of a problem is you had money deducted after the loan was fully repaid. You will get that money back automatically, but for anyone in the last couple of years of their student loan and they're going to pay it off, you're allowed to shift a direct debit But really important people understand that. can get that money back whether you should get the money back or not Generally, if you're one of those people who won't clear the loan in full in the thirty or forty years before it wipes, depending on the system you want to reclaim the money. If you're a higher earner who's likely to repair it in fm, then it's less important that you take the money back But it's always worth thinking, even if you are going to earn enough to clear the loan in full, could you have better use of that money in the short term? In other words say to pay off expensive debts or not I've done that relatively quickly, but hopefully it madeakes sense. No, absolutely. I think it's it affect los of people because if you work in something like Sales or whatever and you get you know a percentage of a commission basis and you might get a month where you get bit a bit of a windfall or whatever. So it's definitely gonna affect loads of people out there. Loads of people on PAYE. If you're self employed, you'll be doing it through a self assessment tax return, which just looks at the total annual amount, but if this is a PAYE issue and yet it aects millions evenven though I got the question wrong, it's been a joy spending en hight. enjoyed it. Thank you. Thank you very much, Martin So we're in the podcast Extra bitit and that means I am joined by PPS. podcast producer Simon. How are you, Simon? I'm excellent. I'm having one of those perfect days at work where it' somebody's birthday and they've brought in chocolate cake. Oh, very nice indeed. We're not in the same place. I won't be getting any chocolate cake. We are both fans of the cricket We were expecting the recording on Five Live to be disrupted by the cricket, which is annoying from a podcast perspective, but we do like the cricket However, it was rained off during the hour that we were recording I can't work out whether that was a good or bad thing. It's good because it meant we didn't have the sort of lots of and there's been a wicket. which wen't wanted anyway because England were batting, but it's also bad because the cricket was rained off. Where do we stand on this? Well so I think it increases the chances of them playing a bit later tonight. Ideal scenario for me. I get home this still half now of the crrickets ago Well yeah. becauseause I mean, it's you're probably in the studio Ient, there isn't a screen with it on You know, I can't listen to five Lve Sorts Era when I'm doing it, so we're slightly lost. Anyway. we need to talk about energy bills. We should get off that and we got lots more energy questions that I want to get through. So you've got a whole host in front of them. How about division of Labour? You ask them, I'll answer them. We can do it that way round or the other way round? No, no, let's definitely stick with that way. I for the best. We got one from Annie. She asks How about when your fix expires mid July So it's currently the fourth of June. There's the most important rule to understand on any fix is they're not allowed to charge you early exit penalties in the last fifty days of your fix. So from day forty nine onwards Early exit penalties don't exist So if your fix ends mid July, I think we're probably depending exactly when were're probably within that period. It is very tricky If you can get yourself a cheap fix at a decent price right now, you can get know at four percent less than the current price cap There is a small risk that thingsings got even worse in the Middle East. those fixes may disappear. I mean, a few weeks ago, the cheapest fix was about six percent more than the April price cap. prices have come down slightly, but wholesale rates are not looking very good right now So this just is a don't know how cheap your existing fix is. When you go onto a comparison You're probably going to find that it tells you the cheapest fix is more expensive than you're repairing right now Now I'd say if the difference is a trivial amount over fifty days, you know if it's a percent or two, you might just want to lock in right now, then you've got surety for the next year of what you're going to pay If you're on a very cheap fix And you're going to end up paying, you know a substantial amount of money because you're having to have a more expensive fix for the next fifty days because once you lock in you lock in and you're on a really cheap deal right now and you're getting rid of that And then there is a bit of a gamble to say I might wait a few more weeks and hope that the prices stay roughly where they are or get cheaper than they do right now. Craig, we're fixed until December currently on Octopus? Is it worth changing Okay, so that is a very different decision Let's just make sure you're on an octopus, which might change it slightly Octopus sometimes does have and sometimes doesn't have early exit penalties if you leave your fix If you've got a December fix I'm presuming it was one year longer, Therefore you got that fix last December when wholesale rates were substantially cheaper than they are right now. The rate at which companies set fixes primarily depends on wholesale rates on that day. So while the price capap has a time lag The rate you can get a new Fix app is much more immediate So my suspicion is you are on a fix far cheaper than you would be able to get a fix today. So to come off that fix, you may potentially have to pay early exit penalties and you may have to pay substantially more until December H While I don't have a crystal ball and you would need a crystal ball to answer this accurately. My instinct does not like that So I would stick on your cheap fix with a bird in the hand tntill December The thing to understand here is that I have this duality of message, which is confusing. My message is if you're on the price cap Get off the price g because you can fix cheaper than the current price cap and the price cap's going to get more expensive But you're not on the price cap. you're already on a cheap fix. And fixes right now are not particularly cheap. They're cheaper than they were a few weeks ago, but that wholesale rates are particularly high Now, unless the whole Middle East situation escalates to an even more horrendous level than it is right now There is no reason that fixes are going to get prohibitively more expensive than they are right now between now and December. In fact, there's a decent chance that you're going to be able to fix far cheaper in later on in the year. Hopefully the Middle East conflict will have ended In which case, there's no call to arms for you to fix right now. I think it's a confusion of the messaging. Because I'm shouting about get off the price cap before the price cap rises, people go I should probably get off my fix. No, it's a totally separate system. In the ecos system you're in, there is nothing pushing you to get off a cheap fix to go to a more expensive fix, apart from the idea that things would be catastrophic and even worse, well we're already in the bad time You know, we're in the bad tim and things could always get worse in terms of wholesale rates. so I wouldn't be getting off my cheap December fix now. I'd be sticking with a bird in handntil there. but I do need to do the caveat I literally don't know what's going to happen because a lot of it depends on a big orange feller in the White House and he is not particularly consistent in the decisions that he makes. Ev that she asks a question that kind of follow ups a little bit on something he just mentioned. she asks why are Octopus introducing exit fees on their new fixed deals? That is interesting because this is something I called out. Octopus, unlike most companies, doesn't normally charge early exit penalties if you leave a fix Over recent months, it has started to introduce that. and I actually called it out on social media and got a response from Greg Jackson, who is the founder of Octopus and the chief executive of Octopus. He's been on the podcast actually. So give me a second by the magic of podcast, I will find that tweet I found the tweet. He sent me this on the fifth of March, but it's a pretty similar situation to the one that we have right now. He said, Hey Martin, we had to do the same temporarily during the gas crisis a few years ago. We removed early exit penalties as things calm down, and I will do the same again here. With wholesale gas prices doubling and wholesale electricity up sixty percent for the next quarter at least, we need to move fast. but many companies have simply stopped offering fixes altogether. Also, of course, existing fixes are not affected whichich subtext, it's a commercial decision They're looking at their prices at the moment, realizing that if they're going to offer a fix, they don't want people leaving them if prices drop substantially in future when the Middle East crisis, if and when the Middle East crisis ends, and therefore they put them on to lock customers in a bit in the same way that other firms do So that is your answer. It's a commercial decision Fris has got in touch with a question. and quite a lot of people are asking questions on this topic really He's saying, hopefully we're moving in the next three months Currently I have dual fuel with British gas, New home is electric only, Will I be able to move my British gas new fixed rate from duual to just electric Oh no, that is an interesting question So lots of people ask me about fixing when they're going to be moving house. that most companies do have portable tariffs. Their fixes are portable. i. e. you can take your fix with you to the new property. The three general exceptions U. Do it off the top of my head Ohough Scottish power. an out fox They just say you can leave with no early exit penalties if you're moving house. So but you can't port it with you British gas tends to allow portability when you're doing the comparison, they should tell you whether it's portable or not What I don't know 'cause you're having a change of status. If you were moving dual fuel to dual fuel, I'm almost certain British gas tariffs you would be able to take with you to your new house Because you're moving jual fuel to electricity only If the fix you got was one where they D didnn't just offer it to dual fuel customers. They also offered it to single fuel or electricity only customers. My suspicion is they will allow the portability. If it was one that was only for dual fuel customers, which they can do, my suspicion is they won't allow the portability. So as you're on an existing tariff, you can't change it. I mean, if you were looking to get a new fix at this point, I would probably be looking in that circumstance to do separate fix for electricity and gas. and therefore, hopefully the electricity fix would be portable, depending on which firm that you went with. So I'm sorry, I can't give you a firm answer. I don't know their exact policy on portability of fixes to single fuel. I would hope it'd be okay. justust call them, speak to them Matthew you've got a question about how things are communicated. He's saying why is the energy price cap presented as an average? Who exactly is average and how many people can genuinely relate to that figure? It's a complete or utter nonsense. It's not actually they don't say average, they say typical use. And the way they do typical use is they calculate units of gas and units of electricity Now, interestingly, when they announced the price cap, as I had mentioned on the previous show that I suspected they would, they are dropping the definition of gas usage down seventeen percent and electricity down seven percent. They do this by surveying exactly the amount that people are using and talking to the energy firms about usage which does change therefore the figure To be fair to them, they have been very clear in communicating that while the usage is dropping, they're using a light for light figure when they're talking about what's going on. Now what I am pleased to say with O Gem has done And I've been nagging them for years and they've told me in meetings that they are following my lead on this. I always talk about the energy price cap as a percentage change because I think that is the most accurate way to communicate it They now are leading on the percentage change in their press release. But I'm afraid Many of the reporting out there is leading on ridiculous figures. I mean, a number of times, including I need to say the BBC and the BBC newews website reported on the July price C isa two hundred and twenty two pounds a year increase. That is utter nonsense It's a completely fabricated figure for two reasons One. The two hundred and twenty two pounds is based on typical use. So if you use less, it would be smaller. If you use more, it would be bigger and two, you have to include the fact for a typical user when you're saying that But far more importantly, the July price cap only lasts until October So to quote an annualized cost increase for something that only lasts three months is utterly misleading In fact The July rise, as I mentioned earlier is going to because it's low usage, it's going to add about forty five quids to the actual amount people pay over those three months for someone on the price gap on typical use. So I totally agree with you. I mean the typical use figure though Bizarrely, the fact that the typical use figure is dropping is actually going to increase all our bills They have to use the typical use figure to calculate how much they are allowing energy firms charge on the unit rate, the rate for each unit of gas and electricity you use in order to recoup some fixed costs. And because they're lowering the typical use figure because people are using less energy, to allow them to recoup those fixed costs, they actually have to put the unit rate up. That was that ten pound a year policy change I mentioned earlier, which is subtling inn it. Sim just read to me again the last bit about what they'd like to see because think I think I remember what they said, but I'm not actually sure I agree. Yeah. so they went on to Matthew was wanting to know about I'd love to see a much simpler, more transparent messaging. For example, electricity is going up or down by X pence per kilow hour. Yeah I mean, and that is generally how I communicate it. There is a butt though. But is This is regional prices are not uniform across the regions So you could do it by up and down per kilowattour And I will break that down. and I absolutely accept that the sophisticated listeners to this podcast would be able to work with that You know, if I were to say, I mean I said it early. I said what's really happening is the standing charge is staying the same, but the gas unit rate is going up an average twenty eight percent, whereas the electricity unit rate is going up an average six percent But we have seen times, for example, where we've seen on the price cap The standing charge go up and the unit rate go down. So to actually try and communicate that to a mass audience in a short space of time is incredibly tricky. It's the type of thing I do on my show and I do when we're doing the podcast or I do when I'm writing something for my website But if you're doing a quick clip for news to start talking about The gas standing charge is going up, the gas unit rate is going down by this much peopleople just don't get it, which is why I go for a uniform average percent Well it isn't representative You know, if you were a very high gas user, it all changes and low users. it at least gives a direction of travel. It's an imperfect system. But I think giving a percent is better than using a typical use figure, which is meaningless. because so many people hear this, it's going up two hundred twenty two pounds a year. And it's just has no relevance to them, att least saying an average thirteen percent you can get an idea that if you pay a thousand pounds a year, you're probably going to be paying somewhere over eleven hundred pounds a year. I think that's probably where we should end, Simon. I think we did quite a lot there, didn't we? Perfect we summed it all up. And Steford did well on his first appearance on the podcast, although he'll be gutted because obviously he really likes his board games, as he was saying He'll be got to have lost Mastermind Well, he'll have to just roll the dice of nice of five live presenter rotors and hope he comes up with you again. And Adrian doesn't have a monopoly on getting it wrong. Okay, enough puns. let's leave it there