Raising Your Standards for Life

Hey, it's friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robins podcast Okay, I have a question for you Why don't we have more fun I mean, remember the good old days? Now I'm sounding like a grandparent, but you know what I mean Barbecues, weekend plans, movie nights with friends. Why are we not doing more of that? I really miss it, don't you So here's what I did. I called in The expert on how to create real meaningful connections with your friends and with your family to help you and me out Her name Preeoker. Priya is going to teach you how to deepen your relationships with the people that you care about most, even if you don't get along with them And she's going to start the conversation by asking you A very specific question And this is a question that you're going to need to ask yourself Anytime you're going to see your family, your friends, you need to ask yourself this question before you even start a Zoom call. You're going to love this Because the truth is, Time is ticking If you're lucky for your parents or your siblings to be alive You may Only seeing them a handful of times every year like I do because we don't live near each other And when you do get together with family There's so often this tension that you just wish wasn't there. and guess what They wish it wasn't there either. That's why this episode matters. It's going to help you make every moment you have with other people so much better whether at work, whetherre around the dining room table, whether you're talking about your friends or your neighbors, And don't we all deserve to have meaningful conversations, better connections and a whole lot more fun Of course we do. And that's exactly what we're going know how to do after our episode today Before we get started, I wanted to encourage you to stick around later in the episode to hear a special segment sponsored by Verizon because I'm going to share with you how important it is to raise your standards. So stick around, you're gonna love it Considering a college degree but haven't started yet Remember this Confidence is the willingness to try And Southern New Hampshire University can help They have over two hundred online programs so you can study where it's convenient And there are no set class times. so you can study when it's convenient too. It's truly a college that lets you balance learning with your busy life. Visit snhu d. edu slash mail to explore everything Southern New Hampshire University has to offer Support for this podcast and the following message come from MIDI Health. Women's midlife health issues have been trivialized and ignored. It's time for a change. It's time for MIDI. MIDI is covered by major insurance, making expert care accessible. Clinicians provide one on one consultations, listen to your unique needs, and offer tailored data driven solutions MII works to make you feel seen, heard and prioritized. Visit joinMIDI d. com to book your virtual visit. MIDI, the care womomen deserve Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robins podcast. I am so excited that you're here. I'm excited for this conversation. I want to have more fun I know you do too It's an honor to be together to spend this time with you. and I promise you, we're going to have fun and you're going to love this. And if you're a new listener or you're here because somebody shared this with you I just want to take a moment and personally welcome you to the Mel Robins podcast family Today, you and I are getting the secret to building community and connection with your family and friends from our incredible guest and expert today, Priya Parker Friya is considered the leading expert in the world on how to create meaningful connections whenever you get together with other people She has degrees from Harvard, MIT, and the University of Virginia. Her best selling book, The Art of Gathering is considered the most cited and renowned book on How to Bet Come togetherogether peopleeople around you She is also a conflict resolution facilitator who's helped lead global peace conversations in Asia and Africa and for decades She hass taught people just like you and me how to handle conflicts in our lives with the people we love. So please help me welcome Pria Parker to the Mal Robins podcast Prea Parker. Welcome to the Mount Robinsodcast. Thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited because I feel like I want to have more fun and see people more. Fun is good for our families. Fun is good for our health. Fun is not only fun, it's actually crucial to our relationships and to our communal life Amazing Well, we all want to have it, but for some reason it seems kind of hard to be making fun and gathering and connecting with people. And so I want to read to you from your bestselling book, The Art of Gathering, How We Meet and Why It Matters. This is from the Introduction. We spend our lives gathering first in our families, then in neighborhoods and playgroups, schools and churches, and then in meetings, weddings, town halls, conferences, birthday parties, product launches, board meetings, class, family reunions, dinner parties, trade fairs and funerals And we spend much of that time in uninspiring underwhelming moments that fail to capture us change us in any way or connect us to one another Any number of studies support a notion that's obvious to many of us Much of the time we spend in gatherings with other people disisappoint us For the person who is nodding their head. You've had that experience of being in a room full of people and you feel alone You force yourself to go out because you know it's good for you to get out of the house and you spend money eating at a restaurant you don't want to be at. You have a boring conversation with people that are slightly annoying that you don't connect with And then you get home and you're like, why did I even do that? do I even try? Why do I even try? I just spent seventy three dollars on pants on. Yes. I put pants on. I put my makeup on. Yes. Why do I even try? Yes. You know, there's almost nothing lonelier than being with other people and feeling alone And so part of the opportunity we have is so much of modern life and our thinking about hosting or gathering has always focused on the logistics Right? Whether it's the food, whether it's the infrastructure, whether it's the table, whether there's the venue and all of those things matter But we're basically told that you leave the rest to chance, right? You hope for the best when it comes to people. And I'm a conflict resolution facilitator. How do you help people connect without having to be the same And so much of what my peers and I are taught as facilitators isn't taught in modern culture. And so we are taught, we're trained, ass a whole profession of how do you help people get off their scripts? How do you create a dinner where people actually, instead of saying what they always say pause for a second and think and then something new happens. But so often because we assume we're just supposed to leave people to themselves or it's awkward to impose, or who am I to try to steer the conversation, we are leaving people less well off than if they had just stayed at home And I take it, this also applies to family since even though y'all share DNA potentially. Absolutely. You don't have the same belief system. and that you are very different. And maybe it's a dumb question, but What do you mean when you say gathering? Because when you say the word gathering, I thought you meant throwing a party So I define a gathering as anyt timee three or more people come together with a beginning middle and end for a reason So much of what I'm trying to work on as a facilitator is our country, our culture is awash in self help And self help is important. Those tools have deeply helped me. I am in therapy. I have deeply benefited from many individual tools. But when the lens is basically, how do I just improve myself? How do I my steps? How do I take my sugar intake? All those things are important But we actually also need group How do we actually help the groups of our life? And so many of our problems are shared problems. They're not going to be solved by just the individual. They have to be solved by the group. And so it's an invitation to start getting interested in the group help business too Oh, I love that. The group help business I think we all can agree We need some help with the groups. whether it's our group of friends or the group that is the family or the group that is the in laws or the group that is your neighbors or the group that is Your colleagues at work And that's what you're going to teach us today. Absolutely How to have better connections in the groups we're in and how to create new groups of people and how to show up in groups. And how to diagnose when something is off, how do you have the tools and the confidence to do something? Whether it's a high school or college reunion, right? So many people get onto an airplane to go to this reunion sometimes across countries and then you go and like nothing much happens and it's almost it breaks your heart. Everyone's here. If we just put a little bit of structure in it, if we just thought of it in a different way, you can move this entire night from everyone feeling sort of you, isolated and repeating high school over again, to imagine having the best conversations of your life with the people that you grew up with forty years ago. Well, I also thought of another example. How many times have you traveled to go see family and everybody sits inside. Yeah. and kind of catches up. And then within hours a day, you're kind of irritated and bored. kindind of like looking at our watches, traffic's going to be building up. We should probably leave a little earlier than we thought. You've checked the box, but you actually didn't get anything. You haven't watered the garden Well, that group needs help. Let me tell you. we all have that. particular family member's house that we're thinking about right now where you know a small part of you goes to die and to show up. And we all kind of hope it's going to be a little bit different, but I'm starting to gather no pun intended that there are specific strategies that we can be using in those situations and those situations are all over our lives So you say there are three ways to spice up or have more fun in any gathering of people, make it more meaningful. Let's talk about the first way So the biggest mistake we make when we gather is we skip defining the purpose Oh, what is the purpose of this gathering? What is the purpose of this family reunion? What is the purpose even of coming together for Thanksgiving or Sabbat or whatever category you have in your head And The simplest way if you remember nothing else from our conversation is to first ask every single time What is the need here? What are we craving? And so often we skip defining the purpose that we go back into these old forms that are no longer serving anyone I would love to have you break down And I know you have a physical prop to show us. And I will explain what this is. She has yoga blocks And Priya has just put up one that says purpose So The first step in thinking about how to have a meaningful gathering is to ask What is the purpose? Why in this case that you're talking about? why am I coming to this Why am I visiting my parents? Why do I do this? And it may sound kind of wild to say like, why am I visiting my parents? but hear me out. The reasons why you might visit your parents twenty years ago. might actually be a different reason than you're visiting now. And so twenty years ago, it might have been depending on your age or stge in life to get some help with your kids. R, I'm visiting my parents so that they can bond with my kids. And I'm willing to deal with everything else because what is important to me is making sure that there's a Yeah, connection there. And twenty years later, your kids may be out of the house And you're still visiting your parents the need that I might have now might be different purpose might be to St asking them about their lives as I'm starting to think about their mortality. I don't need to tell them that. there are a lot of ways to actually flip the script when you bring in new ways of being together. So I'll give a simple example. I was visiting my father. He lives in Florida And I was taking my children And we sat down at a restaurant. We don't live in the same state It's a rare moment, right? We could talk about the weather, we could talk about the beach we just went to. And I knew inside of me like this is one of the few times of the year my children are going to be with my father. And so we I said to them kids you want to ask grandpa a magical question and a magical question, and you all can use this is a question that everyone in the group would be interested in answering. Everyone in the group would be interested in hearing each other's answers. That part is important. and my daughter looks up and her eyes are bright and sparkly. and my father looks and says, What's that? And she goes, I have one What's the naughtiest thing you've ever done That was worth it And we all my father looking at his eyes gets bright, and then she goes before the age of twelve We were off to the races sh I laughed and I shared something my kids had never heard. They each kind of decided what they were going to confess you in front of me. I heard stories from my father I'd never heard before. We were laughing. Those were two completely different lunches. And so part of thinking about what is my purpose when I'm about to enter into a room like that? And for me, it's to connect my children and particularly to connect my father to the present version of my children. and to connect my children to the complex being my father is and has been over his seven decades on this planet. What I love about this because it's So obvious once you hear it Not rocket science and personal and profound. I have this saying that I say a lot, which is if you change nothing, nothing changes. And we spend a lot of time anticipating and hoping to have fun and wishing that the connection will happen and fingers cross that this lunch is somehow magically going to be different. Y than every lunch that we do three times a year that we've done for the last decade And then somehow we're surprised and disappointed that it is not any different. yes and It comes down to the opportunity that you're teaching us today, which is to wake up and realize that You have a lot of power here But if you change nothing, nothing changes. And the first thing you need to change is Just take a beat and be like, what's the purpose? If I'm actually going to go is the purpose. There is some need in my life that I can fill with this gathering. That's the purpose. I don't need to tell anybody else. I'm not telling my dad. I just need to figure out, okay, what are some things that I could do so that I get that need filled. Yes. And I love that. You also, you know, you said there's three different layers to the purpose, ways to think about it So the first is to think about The gathering being specific. Okay. Meaning lies and specificity So One of the reasons often we're not sure how to gather either feels too complicated or there's like too much to do. Your gathering, this is a real example can literally be a woman I know, her basil plant bloomed. Like she literally realized she had too many basil leaves. in her little window basil plant And she decided to invite her friends over to help Eat. her basil She had a margarita, pizza party, and basil mocktails. That was it. Right? But it was specific. You know, you just gave me an idea for gathering. There you go. Three years ago I planted these bulbs for a foxt tail lily, which grows like five feet tall. and it's got this gorgeous like feathery cone of a flower that is goes from like orange to light yellow. They're just so extraordinary And I remember reading on the package They will be basically dormant and boring for three to four years This is a summer When I look for this studio, those suckers were coming up and they're starting to do this and I could throw a cocktail party, a viewing party viewing party for the fox t. I have three of them. onlynly three like these's expensive bulbs. And so and I've waited three years y su. Oh, by the way, write this in the invitation it's also the invitation becomes this open to this story, right? I bought these three years ago. There are only three. They are expensive and june twenty first, they're gonna bloom And won't you come Witness the spectacle of beauty where you could tell them to wear the colors of the flower R? But specificity allows us, particularly in modern life to have meaning together What is the next piece of purpose? Okay, the next piece of purpose is unique So a good purpose for a gathering is specific. It's unique. And part of a gathering is like, how is this gathering different than all other gatherings? How is me turning thirty seven different than me turning fifty six. What is it that uniquely I need or want in this moment of life? And part of thinking about even if it's that same family dinner every Sunday, right? or if it's visiting the parents or even if it's a team meeting, people are different from week to week. The needs that you actually have might be different from week to week. I had a friend who was turning fifty And he realized that what he wanted for his fiftieth birthday, he thought again, what is my purpose? What is my need in this moment? And he thought to himself, you know, he got kind of scared. He's feeling sort of depressed. and he realized like he doesn't usually get mopopey around his birthday. And so he started thinking about he talked about with his wife. and he realized So many people in his life, he saw once they turned fifty, started taking less risks And he's a journalist and it really scared him. And he said, I don't want to be somebody who starts contracting after I'm fifty. And so he decided to throw a birthday party and invite everybody in his life who represent adventure. So that was a unique thing. He didn't need that at forty nine. He didn't need that at fifty one The third part of purpose. And moving this block over here is being disputable. Whatere do you mean being disputable It's not for everyone. It's people may disagree with it. It's almost like having a point of view. So years ago when I wrote the Art of Gathering, a journalist called me up and she' hadd been assigned to Art of Gathering ai her dinner party And she said Pria, can you art of gathering if my dinner party? And I said, what is a need in your life? that by bringing together a specific group of people you might be able to address And she paused and she was like, you know, I'm a journalist, but I'm also a working mom and I'm really worn out And the other day I was at a friend's house and she cut me a peanut butter and jelly sandwich into triangles and fed me baby carrot sticks, and I burst into tears and I said, whyy did you burst into tears? And she said, because I realize I'm a worn out mom and it's been a long time since someone has taken care of me. H What if I hosted a dinner party for my other worn out moms And I said, give it a name. And she called it the worn out mom's hoot nanny And then I said, give it a pop up rule. And she said, if you talk about your kids, you have to take a tequila shot. All of a sudden, the blood started coming back into her face. It moved from an obligation to something she actually wanted to do. She sent out this invitation with a story, with the peanut butter and jelly sandwich story, and all six women RSVPDS within the first forty five minutes. And she hosted this amazing, hilarious, beautiful, disputable night One of the ways as you're thinking about reimagining that family gathering or reimagining the way your friends hang out it's not to do it in the room ninety percent of the success of a gathering happens before anyone has entered You have to actually start And then you got it almost like like you know, your fishing rod, you're like wheeling your guest in. You have to prime them and give them a sense of like, are you up for this? This is my need. Do you share this need? So the worn out mom's hooten nanny is a disputable purpose What if I want to talk about my kids, then you got to take a shot. I'm being a little facetious here. But part of having a gathering that's about something is it's creating boundaries. It's actually saying that for this night, this is what we're actually going to be doing. And also, if you're not up for it, that's okay. Not everyone has to come to everything. Not every gathering is for everyone. And so part of modern life is we actually often over include in part because we haven't thought about what our purpose is. And we back into it. and then we think, well, you know, we actually had a different conversation because they brought these other friends and so we weren't able to have the conversation we would normally have because that would have excluded the guests who were here. And so often we get kind of scrambled and convoluted in our gatherings because in trying to be nice and generous in the spirit of generosity We tend to actually kind of Dilute Our gatherings because we haven't thought about what is this for? Our most precious thing we have is our time part of the invitation is to think more deeply ahead of time about what can you do with the people in it and are they game for it And when you start with purpose, it changes everything Okay, I'm going to put these blocks to the side You know, I can almost hear the person who's with us right now nodding along and then thinking What is wrong just hanging out Like I'm already exhausted. I'm doing so much at work. cooking for all these people. like now I got to come up with a purpose and an intention and prop The way you are spending time with your people is fulfilling you. Ke going Keep going. You are lucky If way you' hanging out with your friends, if the way you're hanging out with your family is nourishing for you and nurturing, awesome Don't change anything But if you are feeling a sense of like I'm feeling lonely then to pause and to actually think about How you want to spend your time and invite the others who also may be frustrated with how they're spending their time to join you. You'll have a much Sure connected, delightful, fun life Okay, let's put this to the test So this summer U I'm hosting a bunch of different people. at our home in Vermont. and one of the reasons why this is happening is it's our thirtieth wedding anniversary. Wow. And instead of I know I'm surprised Colations. Thank you Instead of throwing a party where I stopped and thought, you know, let's throw a big party in a dance party. I love dance party. And I thought, well, wait a minute I'm not going to talk to anybody Mm So do I really want to have a big party to celebrate or do I want to celebrate in a different way? And so we reached out to groups of friends that don't live near us and then invited them to come over certain weekends. And we have a bunch of my husband's college friends coming because there's a bluegrass festival nearby us. Amazing. And there'll probably be twenty people at our house. And I said to everybody, Bring tents and please leave your dogs at home Beyond that I haven't thought about it. I mean, you've already thought a lot about it. That's beautiful. So you have a purpose, right? You have a need, which is to celebrate your thirtieth anniversary. Is that Is that would you say that's the need? The need is really, I just I think like everybody The years of twenty through twenty twenty five basically hit delete on almost all of our social lives. Yeah between hybrid work and peopleople moving and empty nesting and job changing and just getting reclusive Yeah because you're at home on Zoom calls and You know, who wants to drive into the city to see people like meegab. Everyone's tired, everyveryone's exhausted And so I think the purpose that this is fulfilling is I miss seeing friends. I miss these experiences. I miss the things that Chris and I used to do When we had either little kids that we could drag everywhere, you know, the parties that you have with when you're young adults and every kids running around in diapers and you know, it doesn't matter if you're sleeping on a couch, we're all just kind of together. that I want I miss that in my life and I realize it's not going to fall out of the sky. I need to create this. It's beautiful. It's a gift to them. you're also naming something. There's so much, I'm a conflict resolution facilitator and sort of conflict resolution one on one is Name it nameame the thing, name the grief, name the loss, name it. And so part of what's so beautiful about you naming this thing and saying Wow, we haven't done this This twenty nineteen is you're naming something that? other people also experience. Yes. And so there's alm you can almost feel like, you know, your throat tightening in a good way that's saying, yes, I have that too. And so when you're bringing your people together, almost the excuse of your thirtieth anniversary, right? Like this is a big moment. maybe I'll use this as an excuse to bring everyone together, to be together in spectacle and joy and bluegrass and remembering that like we can be alive and we can be together. That's enough. It's so beautiful So another thing that I could use help with is we have family coming in from out of town. And one of the patterns that I've noticed is that We tend to go to someone's house and then Hang And I noticice that when we go on a trip somewhere where there are things to do, there's less conflict There is more fun. Dfinitely. That somehow going to people's houses and hanging becomes a cauldron. Yes. for all kinds of short tempers and frustrations and criticism. And I mean, think about the difference between even just your body language describing your thirtieth anniversary of people are coming and we're pitching tents. And I said, no dogs and we're going bluegrass. And then you're like versus this other thing that you're going go and you're going to sit in this couch and you're getting to sink deeper and deeper into this couch art of groups are groups. and whether it's family or whether it's friends, people love adventure, right? You're actually when you're going out on adventure, when you're in a city or you're in a new place, you actually have a third element to interact with. And so you know talk is actually sometimes not good for connection. Ooh, hold on. talk is not good for connection. My mentor, House Sunders, he created this process called sustained dialogue. like literally his entire profession was about helping people talk better to each other And what he would always tell us, baby facilitators is Dialogue is not always the right tool Sometimes people need to play a soccer game Sometimes people need a dance party. Sometimes they need to go out and have an F and blast together. Or go antiquing, or go drive and go gardening. go on a walk. Sometimes what people actually need is to talk less because we get into these loops, we get into these same patterns. And often there's a whole element of talk that actually creates much more distance. And so particularly with families, particularly with people that you spend a lot of time with where you sort of get stuck in a roll, even more important is that the times of have fun to go to something you wouldn't normally do. I had a friend for Thanksgiving last year who was bringing together in laws for the first time, multiple uncles and aunts. and she organized a collective sound bath. for the entire group Like she literally created a sound bath. They're not gonna talk They're gonna sit together in silence for ninety minutes. That sounds amazing. right And so even when you think about whether it's your family, wh you think about it as your friends coming for your thirtieth anniversary party, one of the best ways to Lower your anxiety about hosting is to share the burden Okay And what I mean by that is to in some way make everyone be a subhost or a co host in a way that would delight them Oh So with your friends, there's just one example. you don't have to do this. If you say you have three days together, sometimes I do this with friends birthday parties, particularly for a big one people are traveling. to invite everyone to bring some kind of gift or offering for the group And that could be, I've done this before at a fortieth birthday party. O person brought their favorite tiny little drops of a specific sun block And their offering for the entire group was making sure that everyone didn't get a sunburn and someone else brought their favorite game from their childhood. And they introduce this game for twenty minutes. You know what I love about that is that You gave people a specific assignment they can get creative and then you don't end up with fourteen bagels that nobody ate and tubs of potato salad that people want to jam in your fridge or tap dancing the entire time trying to entertain everyone. Yeah. someomeone else brought beautiful little tiny bars of organic chocolate and just literally the act going around to thirty five other guests at some point over the course of the weekend, it makes people look towards each other. It gives them a tiny little sense of like, this is my gathering too. And so part of thinking about spending time together is finding ways to help people have a shared experience without needing to be the same. Another very simple thing is fun dress codes. F dress codes Wear the single best thing in your closet No shopping Well I love the no shopping. I once did this for a birthday party. Three people showed up in their wedding dresses. Oh, that's killing I know a woman who threw a no pants party In Chicago in her apartment it was July. She didn't her AC wasn't working. I think it was from like a Simpsons like episode. People showed up in everything from bathing suits to skirts to dresses. Her father showed up in overalls and a good natured fight broke out about whether or not overalls or pants. Like it was a total hit because there were was shared Cext Pa, thank you. I am so excited that you're here and I need to take a quick pause so we can Hear word from our amazing sponsors, but don't go anywhere. Priyor writes about this concept called unhealthy Peace that you have unhealthy peace in your life in friendships with your family. She's going describe what that is and exactly what to do about it because we do need to do something about it. And we're going to get to that a little bit later. Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back Let me tell you something No one wakes up fearless Confidence is built. O decision at a time. You take a breath, you push yourself a little bit forward every day and then you wake up and you do it again the next day. 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GoodRX is not insurance, but it still works whether you have insurance or not. And get this, it could even beat your copay price Save time and money at the pharmacy this summer. go to goodrx dot com slash mel. That's goodrx dot com slash mel. Welcome back. It's your friend Mel Robins. Today, you and I are here with the bestselling author of the Art of Gathering Priya Parker. So Priya One thing I want to circle back to because I think it's advice that is going to profoundly change for the better gatherings with our family which is I want you to really think about the Some people don't want to talk They need to either go on a walk or go to a museum Or play a soccer game. Yes set Oftentimes it's not that deep And my husband and I tend to be deep people that want to talk and I can see how when you try to engage somebody that does not like to talk that does not want to discuss feelings or their plans for when they die, or whatever it is that my husband, the deeath doula would like to really get de into there creates attention and how can you shift so that you can make them more comfortable and you know, maybe Let's keep moving, notothing to see here. Yeah Okay. Groups are like accordions. and a group gathering like accordion. Sometimes you want a lot of density in the conversation and everyone having a shared experience. and sometimes you need to kind of loosen it out and pull it back out. So if you think about a family reunion or a friends reunion for three days, you know actually some of the best gatherers I know are introverts best gatherers I know, recharge alone. And in my research So many of the gatherers that other people told me create amazing gatherings, self identified as introverts, self identified to often be on the outside of things. And I asked one of them, why do you think this is? And she said, I am so uncomfortable at so many of the gatherings that I come to that I started designing gatherings I actually want to be at So what are some of the attributes of a gathering that introverts like. structure So I'm walking and knowing. So the first element is not relying on your personality and you're tap dancing to like be the person who's connecting everyone and being the person who's giving all the toasts and being the person who has to basically be the infrastructure of everyone else. It's actually thinking about the thoughtful structure ahead of time that will allow people to connect with each other. I was once at a birthday party that had a quiet corner and there' twoiter and there's two hamocks and all day long. Part of the thing is we all need breraaks., right. And so sometimes they're really good at saying, you know what? And they put two people together in the family who don't necessarily know each other. We all go out and just get some eggs. We need some eggs. just sh sh sh, sh, shoo. Then they'll go and have a conversation in the car that they would never otherwise have. Introverts think at least the ones that I've spent time with and that are really great gatherers, they really think about shared context They think about meaning, and they also have the empathy to know that there's many ways to connect and it's not just through conversation That's great Um You say that another thing that are really good Gathering requires is good controversy. the heck does that me? So I mean, I should start by saying I am a conflict averse conflict resolution facilator. I am a conflict resolution facilitator and I hate conflict My parents are divorced And when they first separated, I bet you have a lot to talk about with your therapist. I have a lot to talk about with my husband. You know what I'm saying? That looks like a very interesting. So I mean, basically when my parents separated, everyone was shocked They never fought Oh They never fought And so I learned from a young age that there's great loss and avoidance. and that human connection can be as threatened by unhealthy peace as it is by unhealthy conflicts Unhealthy peace. Oh, I just thought of about five marriages I know of. And friendships Oh, right and work relationships, unhealthy peace. And so part of like C we just talk about that for a minute? Yes. Give me some examples. unhealthy peace. Unhealthy peace is being hurt by somebody And and holding ono it and choosing to not say something And then a story about them grows in our head And then eventually we're so scared to say something We leave or we ghost or we exit rather than trying to get to what I call healthy heat or healthy conflict Unhealthy peace is often in teams where Everybody knows that It's a terrible idea to laaunch this product but no one's willing to actually say it. Unhealthy peace can be in a family at a at a multig genererational family gathering and somebody Uncle is belligerent towards another cousin, maybe their own child and everyone freezes and just looks down under the table You can have strategic avoidance, but unhealthy peace is choosing to not touch something you care about because you're afraid of floss and you're afraid of what might happen And our society oscillates within our friendships and our families, we oscillate between unhealthy peace and unalathy conflict We either Avoid exit ghost or we burn the freaking house down And so and I know this because my house was burned down, but throughhealth metaphorically, through unhealthy peace. becausecause your parents never fought and all of a sudden they My parents never fought. They both came from conflict diverse families One is white American, from Iowa, from the Midwest, one is Indian, totally different cultures, but this inherited culture that conflict is dangerous I have such deep empathy for the people in the room who want to flee And I've learned that you can hold heat. I've learned it's a learnable skill. but we're not taught it. So if you're listening right now and you're like, oh my God, my whole life is full of unhealthy peace There's all kinds of stuff at work. I never say anything I am in a marriage where I feel like roommates I hold resentment toward friends that I never express. I tolerate disrespect and other stuff from a parent What is the first step to do if you're recognizing that unhealthy peace is in your life So first is to know you're not alone This is very, very, very common of the reason so many of us, myself included are like this is because we're taught Conflict is immoral taught that conflict is sin metaphorically, We're taught that conflict is dysfunctional We're taught that conflict is for people who are all messed up And so the first element is to pause and to actually be curious and invite the idea conflict is actually necessary for connection Healthy communities hold healthy heat And so the first thing is just to just pause. And if you are like me, which is I was raised where if any the heat starts to rise, we all just And you're like stick her head in the sand like ostriches. that It is not only okay to have conflict, that it is Conflict is relevance. Conflict is We don't fight about the things we don't care about. Right And so when you're starting to get upset about something, or're starting to if something rubs you the wrong way, that means that it's getting to the things that you value. It's the things that are actually give you life And so as a conflict resolution, one of the things we often look for is what the what the relationship what the conflict resolution facilitator called Seetu Nair calls relational Longing. and relational longing when as facilitators in any type of fight, we're not brought in with people who hate each other 'causeuse they just leave Right? Facilitators work with people who still want to belong to each other. And so part of the essence of getting into any type of relationship, friendship, long term community is finding the relational longing that still exists at the center of the fight and coming from there to begin to say, Hey, I'm going to speak this dangerous truth. I'm going to say this thing that scares me. In part two as an investment in you becausecause otherwise I may just leave What would your advice be that. moment when You are the one keeping the peace, but you're really scared to say anything or to try to shift the dynamic curious about what this conflict actually is and don't assume that it's gonna to end the relationship. Conflict is actually quite intimate. When you actually get into a conflict with someone else, It's doing things like admitting that you're affected by the other person, admitting that you're vulnerable to the other person. One of the reasons conflict is so scary is because it's admitting that we affect each other. And so the first thing to think about is you're actually your own body And before you figure out what you're going to say or when you're going to say it or how you're going say it, I have a friend and facilitator, Prentice Hempill, who says the most powerful body we have is a relaxed body. And so the first thing I'll tell you as a facilitator, I actually write about this in the At of fighting that's coming out this fall is I break down what we as facilitators do. care for a fight we're going hold. And a huge amount before I enter a room to hold a fight, I'm not even a part of is physical And we think of fights as physical, but actually the biggest physicality of a fight is in our own bodies. so to think first is to breathe. to literally put both feet on the ground. I think about my own purpose and intention and coming in. and then I'm still kind of shaky and my voice may still shake. And then to say, hey Do you have a moment, can we talk about something Do you have a moment to chat? I wanted to share with you something that didn't sit well with me partart of modern life is we actually oscillate between again, saying nothing and suing each other. So in our cultural context where we don't have a lot of healthy heat examples, sometimes people do freak out And so if you're listening and you're part of a team You can actually start creating healthier cultures in your team for heat A simimple example, I had this manager do it is I said, start your weekly meetings, your staff meetings just for ten minutes, no more, or you zip around and everybody does rose and thorn It parents in the family. Parents, exactly. So. So best part of your week, worst part of your week. And I said, just do that ten weeks in a row. D't change anything else just do that ten weeks in a row And she came back and she said, you know, the first few weeks, some people were really into it, other people weren't. Th then week three, week four, they started realizing like, okay, we're really doing this. For some people, what was risky was sharing stuff outside of work. For some people it was risky, was sharing stuff inside of work. But by the eighth week The rest of the meeting began to change because they started normalizing thorns And so part of thinking about the cultures that you're creating in your families, particularly if you're somebody with some amount of social power or authority, is whatever your relationship to conflict is, is going to be the group's relationship to conflict Pri, I have so many things that I am going to put to use immediately already Don't go anywhere, we're gonna take a quick break so we can give our amazing sponsors a chance to share a few words, but we have so much more to dig into when we return. Stay with me When it comes to your health and wellness, trust matters Whether you're working toward fitness goals, building a wellness routine, or just stocking up on everyday essentials for your family, where you shop really matters. And that's why I want to tell you about our new sponsor, IHb. 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Visit summerinscottsdale dot com and start planning your trip It can be easy to forget how much me time really does matter especially when life gets stressful Things pile up, you're so focused on everybody else and whatever it is that's on fire right now that before you know it You haven't really paused at all But taking even a little time for yourself can help you reset and recharge Because a moment of meime can shift how you move through the rest of your day and even through your whole week At Massage Envy, your meet time is all about you Maybe it's a relief massage to ease those everyday aches and pains, or a relaxation massage to help you fully unwind. Or maybe your skin really deserves some attention and some love. with a results driven facial designed to focus on things like fine lines, blemishes, uneven looking skin tone, dullness, or whatever it is that your skin needs Whatever you need to feel and look your best, there is a service at Massage Envy that's designed to help you feel that way Book your appointment at massagenv. com today. Each location is an independently owned and operated franchise Welcome back. It's your friend Mel Robbins. Today, you and I are here with Priya Parker, the bestselling author of the Art of Gathering So I want to go back to the moment that we've all had where you are at a family gathering and you are sitting at the table. And all of a sudden someomebody who we all know who the difficult person is in the extended family. They do their thing You know, like whatever, they sound off about Pul and you are now in your unhealthy peace. Yeah. and you're thinking about Priya's art of gathering and the art of fighting and you're starting to feel the heat And you're thinking, I would rather be on the planet Mars than sitting at this dining room table right now How on earth does healthy heat or a little bit of conflict make the gathering better First of all, that moment is really scary. Yes. It is most of us go back into the roles that we've always played. You know what I do, I start bussing the table. Yeah. And then I get a drink. Yeah. get just Which is not a way to handle healthy conflict. So this may sound like a cop out, but it actually isn't, which is these moments in time are actually few and far between. The best way to change them is before anyone enters the room. Oh, okay, I love that. The best way to change the dynamic is before anyone enters the room. Okay, what am I changing? So first of all, If this is something that's happening at your dinner table once a year over and over again, I first find your allies Find your allies that also at every moment feel like, I hate that he does that. I hate that they do that. But I don't know what to do in that moment. It feels so scary. This is also a multi generational family ritual. Like who are we to come in? How you know who those people are? They're the ones are looking you across? Exactly. findind your allies. find your allies. The second is sometimes the old structures actually no longer work Can I give a simple example? Yeah. So I had a family who There was a lot of conflict and often like about politics and it was just sort of over and over and over I forgot to all of us.. It' just Oh my gos know. It sort of felt We all have we all have to just like suck it in and go to this thing and no one And so what this family did was they there's two people in it and they're like, okay We still w to spend time as a family because it goes back to the purpose I may not agree with everything in this large extent of family, but this is also these are my people. And what they ended up doing was they found their allies. There's a few other siblings and cousins who were on board with changing, just like everyone basically drinking for three hours and then sitting at a table and drinking more And so they decided and they created A Championship where the next year at the family reunion, they put together teams ahead of time of different people, including the people who are like cook and' like, here's a spatula. right? They put together the cooks and the non cooks and every different team was responsible for a different meal. It took more time time took more time. then everyone was excited about what everyone was eating. They focus on the food rather than what you squeeze out politics conversation by arguing about who made the best salsa Right And so one of the things I talk about is like fight, but about other stuff. I love that. The activity is such a great diversion. Yes. You know, another thing, this is particularly a change conversation, host a hot takes party where you argue about stuff that does not matter. It's adding warmth to heat. It's saying, I did this with my team years ago. We hosted a hot takes party it as our end of the year dinner and people come with their most controversial opinion that does not matter Give me an example. There should be only one type of pasta Tuesday is the best day of the week Winter is the best season And you have to defend it to the end And what happens and I've seen this in teams is people start laughing and it gives them permission to be like, how could you say there's only one type of pasta? My Italian heritage is deeply offended,? But you're actually learning that you can argue, there can be juice, there can be warmth, there can be banter. And I've seen teams do this where you're starting to help people have warmth and humor and how they fight and realize that you can actually add juice You know, water the ground and realize again, there's a lot of energy here, but fight about other stuff. I freaking love that You're a genius. You are. And so we've talked about purpose, we've talked about a good controversy. You're going to have your hot takes. What is the third thing that can really create meaning in your next gathering Thinking about how you open and how you close. Okay, give us some examples. So I think about a gathering as the creation of a temporary alternative world And as a host, your're creating that world. It could be a mosh pit It could be a rave, it could be a by the river. But these are actually different worlds. And so part of as a host is to think about how do you actually open the first five percent of a gathering deeply matters. So when you're hosting a gathering reallyally deeply thinking about how do you open And what are you doing in those first few moments when people are arriving? whether it's to the thirtieth anniversary, whether it's to a dinner party We actually are looking to see how do we behave in any of these moments And when a host comes and says He either introduces people to each other or brings people around and says Hey, would you be u would you be our wine mininister for the night Whenever see a cup Would you mind just filling up or our water minister? right? Those first five percent is when people actually realize, oh, like this is how I behave here. Give us some fast ideas for those first few minutes when they're coming into your house Dand there Hm, St there. Take a moment, haveave a greeting. committee, meaning literally your two friends I had a friend who was having a birthday parties years ago and she asked three friends who love doing this. This is important to be the greeting committee. I'm saying that in quotes, right? All that meant was we stood by the door and as people came in we were like, Hi Welcome to S andl's birthday party. We've heard so much about you. And the way people respond, Oh my gosh, You've heard so much about me? How about a Zoom meeting Oh, Give us a bunch of fast ideas for the best way to open A Zoom call at work without it being cheeseball and alsoso like pulling people in, like how you set that intention? Yeah So Zoom is such a great context to learn from. And one of the things that creates connection is informal. And Zoom is like the enemy of informal, right? We're all in these squares. You have to mute on, mute off. You're not sure if you're supposed to talk, right? You can't talk to someone else. So you enter an in person meeting, you can go, you can choose the seat you sit in, you can be like, Hey, can I get you a coffee?? There's all of this informal stitching that actually binds a group. And so in these virtual context, that's taken from us. And so the host needs to actually create And so simple examples. First is when you if you are hosting this Zoom, Be fully on. L once it's on, once the time is start, be on time, and then be there, it's almost like, I mean, I say this as a facilitator that does a lot of zooms It's almost like you're a live sportscaster Right? And so you's like, hey, how's it going? You know what? I'm just gonna I'm gonna I'm going to have a sip of this water And I'm curious, what are all you what's you're all in different time zones? likeike just poping into the chat. What are you drinking right now? Oh, Earl great tea. Oh, right You're actually warming up the group, but on Zoom it's through your language. It's not unlike a podcast host. The second is to invite people to come on camera I work with a lot of leaders and managers who say, like, I don't know how to get my team on camera, but I can't actually read their faces. So I had a leader who told me that one of the things he did was he told his team that they could be camera off if they sung a Neil Diamond song I was with his team when they didn't and they all started laughing, and it was like, it was this playful pop up rule. They all know he loves Neil Diamond. And the reason he did that and it worked for the team is because he wanted to know they weren't engaged Right? They wanted the reason they wanted the camera on is to know that they're not sitting there doing something else. One of the things I often do with my team and my students is I have them ask a magical question in the chat peopleeople are waiting What's the first concert you ever went to And who took you And people start populating the chat, it creates a completely different world. It helps you understand sort of who's here and who's not here. So I have a friend who runs a tutoring company. Her name is Marcella, and she started doing this. She would ask a magical question every week, but at some point it's kind of like the boss is asking a magical question again. And so she started rotating who everyone E Oh you're assigned the magical quest. Yes. Got it. Each week a different team member was assigned coming up with a magical question and asking it in the first three minutes of the chat and everyone answers it She's building leadership skills She's sharing the weight We actually are excited to hear what one another is going to ask. We can learn from that practice. We start understanding and getting to know each other as a group. And part of why this is important is particularly in virtual teams When the going gets tough when there's some mistake as there will be in every team The likelihood that I'll pick up the phone and be like Hey Mal, I actually wanted to talk to you about something. You're creating psychological community. through knowing things about each other, within appropriate boundaries, within that is relevant to the work that actually helps people understand who each other are and has some cross stitching with Team the Group. You say that the endings matter. How do you end? Most gatherings don't end, they stop What's the difference You are at a conference you've had this like beautiful of an experience and then all of a sudden it's like, o, Thanks for coming Coat got to run, Cats in the back. Okay, overall. Thankks everybody And actually,, as I said, every gathering is a temporary alternative world, and the more different it is from everyday life, the more you also have a responsibility to close it I had an improv teacher called Dave Sawyer actually here in Boston, and he would always say, good actors think about how they enter a stage Great actors also obsess about how they exit how they leave And so thinking about, again, very simply, walk people out If somebody's coming to your home, right? Walk people out. it's so touching. Sometimes people walk me out of their home and I'm like Q R is an extra piece of care. Thank you for walking me out. It can be, you know and sometimes you need to get people out of your house. Let me walk you out. And so issuing like in bars, you know, the last call, they d there's they ding the bar like last call, last drink. It's a way to actually prime people to start leaving U And so thinking about what your last call is, my husband and I argue a lot about this and he comes from my house's like, you would never signal to your guests that they should leave. And I come from a family culture where you would never as a guest leave until your host releases you. That's right. So you have this like chicken game where everyone's like, do we leave now? Is it over? How do we close? And so finding simple ways to allow people to exit O way is if you're having people for dinner and you're not really sure if it's time for to leave You can say, well, you know thank you all so much for coming from you, it's a school night, but for those of you who can stay and we really hope you will, like let's move to the living room for a nightcaap. So finding ways to sort of allow people to exit, whether it's a life of a conversation, whether it's a party, you can kind of feel when it's sort of it's coming to an end. And so part of it is like, give it an honorable death Allow people to leave, whether it's a final song, whether it's a final dance, whether it's just simply I as a facilitator, sometimes we do this in work is like we're asking people like best moments of the night Okay, best jokes of the night. Okay, who is the MVP? Wh and finding ways to help people meaning make together And then slowly being like, what transpired here? And in a work context, I do this with all of my Zooms Whaty did you most learn over the last hour? Summer camps do this really well? because they have campfires. I mean, should do it really well. They should do it really well, but they think really deeply about closing and they're closing today and the day before and closing ceremonies, right? tiny little ways to bring ritual back. We're sort of a ritualless culture Not now because you just taught us not to bring it back. now we are now we are ritual full and part of modern life is realizing that we still need and want Ritual And when our institutions are fraying and when M people can be part of many institutions, which is also a good thing. For better or for the worse, we actually need to start inventing these rituals. And when rituals that no longer served us because they were either oppressive or because they no longer make any sense because the village has changed, it doesn't mean you end all ritual. It means you ask now, what now do we need And how might we together bring about something that allows us to spread together, have meaning together and be alive in this precious time that we have So if you're the kind of person who doesn't really consider yourself to be a host, Right? Or you are kind of like, ah, you're, you know, you, you recognize you're waiting for the invite. Yeah but you don't Typically think of yourself as the host What is your message Hosting is not an identity. It's an activity And when people feel like they're not meaningfully contributing or it's not being meaningfully contributing back, basically a lack of reciprocity. And so to not think about it as like this big archetypal thing of like, I'm a host, but to actually think about it as effort Thinking about also host something you would love to attend. post something that you want to do and invite one person to join you Start small, start simple. If it feels like an obligation, don't do it. Um What are your recommendations for someone who is living in an apartment building or move to a new neighborhood doesn't really know the neighbors. I just this week I saw on Instagram a woman who posted that She hosted Chare and share in her neighborhood. She didn't know any of her neighbors She sent out all analog invitations, flyers under her neighbors's doors. and the invitation was to bring a chair and share your name. forortty neighbors show up And they had a great time But again, it sounds silly a chair It's actually a symbol It's specific. I can bring a chair, people bringing long lawn chairs. Somebody brought like their like really really office chair. It gives us something to sit on. It's showing the initiative. Also a lot of people feel this way to find one or two other hosts C hosts ideally, because it can be scary to do something alone. You can also using flyers, use the occasion of either of holidays invented or not. There are many public institutions that have lots of free programming that actually exist over and over and over again. But the key is to keep going to the same event over and over again proximity and repetition creates safety and community. hereere at a gathering. or you're at Dinner with your friends. Yeah And then you have caught up Has kids? What's going on with work? Yeah, Yeah your parents are doing okay they still doing okay? Awesome, what are you doing the summer And now there's that pause. Yeah And you're kind of thinking about and I realize you're going to tell me, I should have thought about this before I'm there, but now that I'm there, and we've done the small talk What's a fast trick to get us to go in a different direction. To ask a magical question. And to you can keep them in your pocket. I have a subset called group life. We have like moreore than fifty magical questions, like take it in your pocket Give me your top five magical questions What is something you own that you're pretty sure no one else in this group owns Oh, that's a. Right? att tractor Why do you have a tractor because I live on a mountain and we have a field that needs stuff and a long driveway that needs to be plowed. And I think my husband looks really sexy on and onest. There So what you just gave me there is like six different conversational doorkobs. A couple other magical questions. What's a movie, film, or TV show? that you could never watch again. Probably jaws becausecause that came out my like fifth grade summer or fourth grade summer And there was something so terrifying about that movie that just about every person that I know in their mid to late fifties had a terrorizing summer would not get in swimming ps that shot from below. Oh my God. Yeah, I still to this day, think about it. tootally. So do I. And so Jaws as a movie, then you can see all of this conversation. What should film be? Is that one of the greatest movies that have ever been created or that terrorize an entire generation and change our relationship to the water B All right, give me the other three. What is an outfit you could have thrown away a long time ago, but you still keep And what does it mean to you If your life was a movie, what would the opening credits song be? That's amazing. What's another one And What is your favorite way to eat a potato I like a baked potato that's double stuffed where you've stirred in the cheese and the sour cream into the middle and then you pack it back in and we get fresh scallions on top and bacon on top, maybe a little horseradish too. and then you cut it in half and you can eat it like a potato you know, like taco, especially if that outside is super crispy. And if I'm having a clam roll or a burger or a lobster roll, it's got to be shoestring fries. I mean, right now I learned about your regional preferences. I learned about your passassionate beliefs about a potato. I could hear that you have time in New England, but I also could hear maybe you had time in the Midwest. I remembered my double stuffed potatoes from my childhood. I had memories of my step sister putting those things in coming out, right? There's so much context in that. And who can forget a tater to? Who I mean, come on now. And in diverse groups and actually in global teams, this question This humble question is beautiful because you think it's super simple. and then all of a sudden, people have everything from samosas T Kokei Absolutely. what about you? For me, it would be Alu puri, which is an Indian food. and when I potates and peas. It can be, but this s it's one of those recipes where it's like everyone has their own secret. Alu is usually this is just potato. It's not just potato, but it's a potato kind of spiced. And my I'm half Indian, My mother growing up when I was growing up would always take me to India for multiple weeks, sometimes multiple months to spend time with my Indian family. And my grandmother would be standing there in her nightcap and her long nightgown and she'd hear us come and she'd shuffle into the kitchen and she'd microwave alupuri that she had made for me and she'd make more warm puris on the stove and it'd be three in the morning and I would sit there and I'd eat her alu puri. And I was like All is well with the world You gave us so many great things that we can do And I also love the fact that doesn't have to take a lot of effort. for you to get a massive, massive return Um, Person listening takes just one thing away. All of the things that you have shared with us, the tactics, the questions, the differenterent ideas, the fun, the inspiration. What do you think is the most important thing to do After you're done listening to this that will have your next gathering be very different. pause and ask What is the need what is a need that I have or what is a need I'm seeing in this community? Why are we coming together? Why and the purpose need not be serious. In fact, probably better that it's not pause and ask what how do I want to spend my time? This all feels overwhelming. Just the next time you're in a gathering, the next whether it's a meeting, whether it's a family reunion, whether it's a wedding, just start observing. to start observing people happy to be here Is there a thought behind this? What are moments where people are starting to come alive? How am I feeling in this moment Is there a way? Is there a simple technique? I may be at a wedding table that I've been sat at with strangers and we haven't necessarily don't know each other Is there a tiny thing I could do, whether it's the person next to me or cross that might for this one moment Make this more interesting And if this all feels overwhelming, start by being a really good guest guuests have a lot of power Well, since you said that endings really matter I thought maybe we'd end in a different way. Oh How about you end by asking the person Wh is with us a magical question So if I was sitting here and I was deeply thinking about your community I would ask something like What is a specific moment or insight from a Mel Robins podcast changed your life And what action did you take in your life because of it Specifically, what action did you take and how to go? That's the story part of it Oh, I'd love to hear the story And you can either put it in the review or you can send it in at mlroobins. com or you can post about it on social That's a great one. Preya Parker Absolutely fantastic. Thank you so much for having me. Thank you so much for the work that you're doing. The whole team has been so excited for you to come. and we have a lot of fun around here, but we all could have more meaningful. and more intentional and purposeful connections. in our lives and I just I'm super excited because the things that you suggested.