Reflections on Justice and Abuse

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Kia Movement that inspires Call eight hundred threety three four K for details host a safety event and seven hundred six twenty six to deealer for warranty details He gave me a book on art forgery I found myself drawn to these O masters How did these artists take paint from a palette, arrange it on a canvas? I began to unlock the secrets I was a storehouse of knowledge of how to create an illusion. presresent it to a experienced expert. manipulate his mind and convince him and bring him to the inevitable conclusion that the painting is genuine We flooded the market with my paintings And I couldn't believe what I did. I couldn't believe it. Then the domino started falling and eventually the FBI will led to my door They uncovered a mountain of evidence against me. But they never actually got you At this point, you've sold a lot. You've got like a million dollars in cash. You sold one painting for seven hundred seventeen thousand Why did it go away? Why did you never get indicted? How are we having this conversation I guess it's the greatest story of all To hear how Ken Perei made millions in art forgery, dodged the mafia and the FBI, subscribe to the Jordan Harbinger Show and check out episode two hundred eighty two in Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening now I'm Bread And I'm Alice And we are the prosecutors Today on the prosecutors He was a legendary Lwman whose story was made famous in the movie Walking Tall. But did the legend cover for a true Monster Hello everybody and welcome to this episode of The Prosecutors. I'm Brett and I'm joined as always by my thorough Bret of a co host Alice. If this were not the day before the Kentucky Bery, Wow. Oh my goodness. I guess it's better than like the quarter horse. A real ass of a g is factorybound gost Oh my goodness. Okaykay, I'll let that one pass because I do love my thoroughbreds. I love all them horses. But we are you guys are well past this once you hear it on the feed, but tomorrow is a national holiday at brereadhells.'s true As it well should be becausecause he makes a I think he does it just so he can serve everyone mint juleps. I love me. Be they're delicious As I've said before, I think I've told the story for. You know, when you've done three hundred and whatever episodes,' been doing this six years we extrack the stories she you've told. I feel like I'm like an old man telling on my stories game But the whole reason like my children exist because of the Kentucky Derby because my wife When I met her, she was from Kentucky and I' always wanted to go to the Kentucky Derby. So was I was immediately like attracted to her. I was like, oh, w, if I date this girl, maybe I' go to the Kentucky Derby. And sure en know. you used her to go to the Kentucky Derby? Yeah. yeah, the first year we were dating we went to the Kentucky Derby. It's the first time I' ever been. But I'll say I stuck with her after that. So that was true lot just for the Kentucky Da. But that was definitely and incentive. to start a relationship. So Wow. Okay. What a love story. But you knowm talking about love stories? Yeah. It's a better love story than what we're about to cover today. It's totally true. And we're not going to talk about horses or anything. We're not even in Kentucky. It has nothing to do with anything. It's just we just happen to be recording the day before Ducky Derby. These are like little time capsules, you know of our lives. I think about that all the time and when we like, I go back and listen. I'm like, wow, I can totally be brought back to that point in our lives. So we need to remember Kentucky Derby twenty twenty six. with this episode. There you go So Alice, have you ever listened to the drive by truckers Of course. from the South. Yeah Jason Ismel, you know, he was a big part of that and went on to a huge success as a solo artist. Well. If you've listened to the dririve by truckers Even if for no other reason you have no familiarity with a man named Buford Pusser, you would be familiar with him from the drive by truckers and their songs because most of the guys in that band were from a county just on the border with Tennessee in North Alabama. and Beuford Pusser was a famous lawman who was Fared respected Beloved, depending on who you ask in that area and in fact had come to be well known around the world because of a movie Walking tall or walk tall The walk tall or walking tall. I'm not sure Walking tall. Is' it walking tall? Whatever It involves moving your feet forward while being tall. aboutbout him, which eventually was remade starring the Rock So this is somebody who's obviously very famous and, you know, we love law enforcement here So obviously we would want to tellell a story about someone who was so famous in law enforcement, But If you've ever listened to those dririve by truckers songs, you may notice there's a bit of an undercurrent. about Buford Pusser that maybe he's not everything the legends cracked him up to be and sppoiler alert, the Dve by truckers might have been a little bit more perceptive than the average person when it came to this particular Lowan. Yes, because that song came out decades ago at this point. while A long time ago. and there's only been recent revelations about this law man who really is kind of the prototype when we think of walking tall law manan who keeps law going around and you know what You have to have people fear you if you're going to be able to be the lawm in town. And you know, he's a the sheriff and in the sort of American system goingo back Britain I don't know if it's like this in Britain or not, but Sheriffs are a very different kind of law enforcement official than your average police officer. Like if you think of you're a police chief It' usually a very stayed, reserved person, a public employee, often hired by the city Share us are elected They tend to have huge personalities. If you know of any sheriffs in the United States. It's probably because they have a huge personality. I mean we're covering one, right? Yeah Aaron Spencer, who is running for sheriff to protest being arrested for killing his, you know, young daughter's molester rapist. But yeah, no sheriffs are like, I will say every time I drive by a sheriff's car I kind of like tse up a little. something about the word sheriff is a little bit more intense than just police. Sheriff mentioned in the Magna Carta. So I mean, just like how far back the shheriff of Nottingham they didn't exactly you know cloth himself in glory. But anyways, so we're talking about sheriffs today and we're going to talk about What should have been a love story? What's been presented as a love story for decades, but maybe with something much worse. So for those of you here are not familiar with this story, let's dive Pauleen Mullins was born on february twenty seventh, nineteen thirty two in Dickinson, Virginia. to parents Jackson Mulls? and Berthley Hill. In nineteen forty nine, she married her first husband Roman Vance Pauline and Roman had two children together, Diane and Michael, but they ultimately divorced, it was a very unhappy relationship and an abusive one Then there's Bauford Pusser. So Buford was born december twelfth, nineteen thirty seven in Adamsville, Tennessee Growing up, he was tall and athletic, excelling in both football and Wrestling Old fashioned, Greco style wrestling, but like so many Greco style wrestlers in the past He decided there's no future in wrestling. The future's end Rassling And in nineteen fifty seven, Beauford moved to Chicago to pursue Raslin. Professionally under the name Beuford. The bull So just two years later, he met Pauline Mullinens in Chicago The pair hit it off instantly and they were married in nineteen fifty nine He wrestled for a couple more years until Pauline and Beaford welcomed a baby girl, Duana In nineteen sixty one, the family moved back to Buford's hometown of Adamsville, Tennessee. His father was the police chief in Adamsville at the time, and Buford intended to follow in his footsteps. Buford got a job at the Adamsville Police Department and rose through the ranks rather quickly In nineteen sixty two, he became the police chief when his father retired. In nineteen sixty four, Buford was elected shheriff of McNary County As Sheriff Buford quickly made a name for himself and was known to be tough on crime. Specifically, he cracked down on illegal moonshine and targeted the Dixie Mafia and state line mob. We're gonna talk a lot about these groups Later, we should do a whole episode on the Dixie Mafia, which is One of the most violent organizations in American history. Most people don't even know it existed, but if you ever lived in the South Eesspecially if you lived in a small town, you either suffered under the Dixie Mafia or you heard stories about the Dixie Mafia. very powerful everywhere and honestly, if you mess with the Dixie mafia, it was a really good way to get killed And Bauford's tactics earned him a lot of powerful enemies. Several assassination attempts were made on him And he had been shot three times in different confrontations over the years. So, when his wife Pauline was murdered In what appeared to be another attempt on Buford's life No one batted an eye at his story, but Nearly fifty years after the murder, The truth. has finally been revealed So Let's go through the timeline Now we're going back in history a little bit On december twelfth, nineteen fifty nine, a week after marrying Pauline, Bauford and two friends drive to Adamsville to a restaurant called the Plantation Club There they'd get into an altercation with the owner, W. O. Hfcock, who later pressed charges for attempted murder Pusser dodged the charge. He was acquitted by a jury after several witnesses testified that he wasn't in the state at the time. One of those witnesses was his new wife Paulaine, who had just married him. very sort of Interesting story about how that all went down. You know, sometimes I feel like in the past in like the mid twentieth century Things were like people think they are now. L people will describe small towns and a lot of stuff that goes on in these counties as if it's still the nineteen fifties In the nineteen fifties, a lot of this stuff really did happen. It's hard to do this kind of thing in the age of social media because anything can become a huge story But I think some of the stuff that happened in the mid part of the last century was kind of crazy. and this is a circumstance where they go down to this place, there's this altercation. I think honestly the best way to describe this is an attempted robbery slash attempted murder Buford Pusser had all these stories he would tell about himself. what are the stories he told Was it several years before this? he was attacked by these ruffians And he had to like fight him off and he barely survived. And he would say that W. Hathcock was one of those people So in the legend that grows up about him This happened But it was sort of Justifiable revenge. It was a righteous thing And it was a good thing that he managed to get off. But either way You know, he goes to Addsville, He moves toddsville, He's doing all this stuff. His dad obviously has a lot of influence. He's working in the local police department. He becomes the police chief but as we said, police chief is a very different thing from shheriff. and Pusser will decide to run for Sheriff. And in fact, he runs At the age of only twenty six years old, very young And not only does he run, he wins this election Now his victory came as something of a shock It happened only after the incumbent died in a car crash. And I will tell you I looked into this because I was curious about That's awfully coincidental that he's running for sheriff and the management it, shall we say? This also happens to not a car crash. It was absolutely a car crash. There's all sorts of evidence of there were witnesses, everything else. It was a very sort of standard car crash. His tire blew out Basically, he lost control Wreck The people behind him, you know pulled up, they tried to help, but it was he basically died instantly. So very much sort of a typical thing, but You would not be wrong to be suspicious So You know, Pusser wins at twenty six. He's got a lot of energy and he immediately Puts that to work boring with illegal moonshine rackets in the area. which are run by the Dixie Mafia and the state line mob. And there were some over the years who would claim that this war was less about ending the liquor trade and enforcing the law as it was about eliminating the competition and that Pusser may in fact have been involved in the illegal mooonshine whiskey trade himself. And in fact later on, Pusser's stepdaughter, Diane would report After these raids where they would stop a truck full of moonshine Those proceeds would end up stored all over the house, including underneath her bed Only to disappear as readily. as They appeared Oh good o moonshine. So february first, nineteen sixty six, Pusser reported of a robbery at the Shamrock Hotel, which You've heard of him before, was owned by W. O. Hathcock's, sister in law, Louise According to Pusser, Louise attacked him and he was forced to shoot her in self defense Twice. In the back doing like a roundhouse kick. She was As she was roundhouse kicking him he did She did two roundhouse kicks. Exact, you know Shot her in the back and she did another roundhouse kick and shut her in the back again. These things happen That's some good self defense. So an insider would later sign an affidavit claiming that Louise paid Pusser six hundred dollars a month to look the other way about her own involvement in the alcohol trade Now, there's a lot going on. You know, we always say when there's smoke, sometimes there's fire, but let's keep going. january nineteen sixty seven, Pusser went to the hospital notot, you know, for like a sports injury or you know, burning his hand on the stove from cooking some Hot skillet Gravy? no He goes to the hospital because he's been shot twice in the face. Pusser would tell the police. He would tell them that he'd received these wounds after an ambush on the state line by gangsters. He. I mean, that may well have happened. There's a lot of mystery I'll say I don't know if they that a mystery, but you could see why perhaps a TV show is or a movie was made about him. He's definitely getting shot by gangsters. Now, whether it's because he's this upstanding law enforcement officer is trying to stop these gangsters or because he's in competition with them and gangsters shoot gangsters I'll leave that for you to decide. At least he wasn't shot in the back. Exactly. twwice in the back Tice in the f off to fs. Just twice twice in the face. So I mean, he's alive And boy is he alive? Because on august eighth, according to one of his deputies, Pusser is feeling so good, you know, so well, in fact, that he actually strikes Pauline in the face, breaking her nose Now There's no like record of this. P say it, and you know how innuendo and gossip can spread But later on After Pauline dies, they do an autopsy of her. This is many, many decades later. And that autopsy does show that her nose had been broken. So it leads credibility to this gossip or story that Pusser is not just violent in his job, but perhaps at home as well Well this is going to become important. as Alice said, that happened on august eighth Fast forward only a couple days. august eleventh, going into august twelfth, nineteen sixty. seven In the late hours of august eleventh into the early hours ofugust twelfth Two women were leaving the old Hickory club. which was located just across the state Lon obviously You know, alcohol laws in the South. I don't know how much those of you not from the South are familiar with this, those of you in other countries, but we have a phenomenon dry counties, dry cities. So for instance, I grew up in a dry county. And what that means is there's no alcohol in the county can sell alcohol In stores, you can sell alcohol in restaurants. When I was in high school, the main city went wet, which meant they could sell alcohol. And now the whole county is wet. And that's been we've been moving towards being able to sell alcohol pretty much everywhere. But when I was growing up, Certainly in the sixties, there were a lot of places where you could not legally purchase alcohol. So I grew up in a little county and literally right across the county line into Jefferson County, there was a place called the Booby trarap which is famous The Baby trarap was, as you might can guess, a topless bar But that was the first place you could buy alcohol going across state land.ly Well, when you have like a really good fun like that, you love it. to be able to get away with it. So let me say this, and this is not just the south. When I was in law school in Massachusetts There was a state referendum on whether or not to sell Beer and wine in grocery stores because you can only get them in package stores And it failed. When I was in law school. so American Lquor laws are a little strange. Anyways, Mp. Whoy, you're old it wasn't that long ago It was after the turn of the century. anyyway, at the turn of the century. There's a famous weathercaster called James Span in Alabama. and he just knows the whole state and one time there's a tornado right on the border between Walker County and Jefferson County and he's like, and we got this storight to come. This is right between the booby trap and the green topop if you're familiar with this area and it's like And it was so accurate. That's exactly where it was. Anyway, Booby trarap for sale right now, by the way. So if you have any interest in purchasing it, it is for sale. you can own a piece of Alabama history Nevertheless, so whole point of this story. Obviously where Puser is is dry. That's why they have all this moonshine illegal liquor But just across the state line, You can get all the drinks you want and what you know it People from the area tended to travel across the state line so they could go drink. And these two ladies are leaving this old Hickory club about to head back home and they hear two people arguing and they recognize them as the pussers. So Buford and his wife have come down to the bar as well. Now it was well known The Pusser cheated on his wife. He had lots of girlfriends. But His wife, Pauline, had apparently found out that he'd been sleeping with a black woman who would sometimes visit relatives in The area. Now this is nineteen sixty seven. in the deep south. This is the kind of thing that if it gets out could be very detrimental to Buford And Pauline, it wasn't that she was like super racist and she was fine him sleeping around, but she didn't like it when he was sleeping with the black woman. No, she had been thinking about getting a divorce and she had been planning on getting a divorce. and this was a piece of information that was really critical to her because at the time, in order to get a divorce, she had to show fault So you had to show why you were seeking a divorce. You couldn't just go in and say, hey, I want a divorce And this was a key piece of information. And the fact that she now knew that Buford was not only unfaithful, but had been sleeping with a black woman in nineteen sixty seven, Tennessee, this was a gold mine. her And the last thing the women heard her say before she was pulled into a car and the car sped off was I'll ruin you Insurance isn't one size fits all. That's why drivers have enjoyed progressives name your prrice tool for years now. With the name Your Price tool, you tell them what you want to pay and they'll show you options that fit your budget. 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Borgotta Online, born to thrill Visit Borgata online. com for T's and C's twenty one and over to Wager New Jersey and Pennsylvania only, newew customers only All promotions are subject to qualification and eligibility requirements. Rewards issued as non withdrawable site credit bonus bets, unless otherwise provided in the applicable terms, rewards subject to expiry. Gambling probleblem? Call one eight hundred gambler And remember, he, I mean, becoming sheriff at twenty six, he is not going to stop there, right? Like he a He has big plans and I'll ruin you is quite the threat for a man like Pusser The next day, the next morning, august twelfth, nineteen sixty seven, Sheriff Pusser received a call about a disturbance near the state line at about four thirty in the morning. According to Buford, his wife Pauline insisted on riding along with him to check it out. When they reached New Hope Road, he said, a black car pulled out behind them at New Hope Church and began firing into the vehicle. The side window was smashed, and though the bullets missed Buford One hit Pauline right in the head Buford quickly drove two miles down the road to try and escape. He pulled over and he began to attempt to help his wife. but the black car reappeared and began firing yet again. Pauline was struck in the head for a second time, and Buford was shot in the jaw Pauleen was killed instantly Buford He was alive, though gravely injured. He spent the next eighteen days in the hospital, and he required several surgeries to his jaw. Strangely, parts of Pauline's skull and brain were found two miles from the scene as he described it. So yeah, ye this really weird situation where according to him, she shot It happens in the car two miles away from where he's eventually found But There are these remains that aren't found in the car. they're found on the side of the road And some people claimed they looked strangely staged and there are things about this story that I don't know if they're true or not. There's like a two hundred page report from the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation you can read talks about this But some witnesses said it seemed as though brain in the skull had been arranged on the side of the road, which seems re prettyty weird But he's having to explain why That's found in one place and the shooting appears to have happened somewhere else. and his explanation is Well they came in, they shot her, we drove off I stop. I'm helping her. They show up again, they shoot again. They shoot her again because she's been shot twice in the head and they shoot me Okay. I mean You know, It is a little strange that if literally someone's skull and brain had been removed by the shot tempting to help her at that point, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt just because loved ones often do really absurd things when someone is clearly dead and beyond help. That happens And that's essentially what he's saying has happened. And People hear this story and think But, this is crazy. I mean, this is this is a ton in American history, of extreme turbulence Violence Of people rebelling against the system, people fighting the man. This is the late sixties, the Vietnam protest, drugs, the civil rights era, the race riots of the seventies, the high crime in New York City. There is just this feeling of the country is spiraling out of control and there are all these forces trying to destroy it And then you have this low man standing against this tide of disorder and suffering immensely for it. And you see, he gets out of the hospital and he provides police with the names of all four shooters. He knows exactly who did this They might have been a black car, but he knew who they were. These weren't men in black. This is not one of those where some mysterious person showed up and did this and disappeared. He knows the names. It's Kirksy McCord juni. Who is the leader of the Dixie Mafia and three other low level hit men in the game. And I will tell you this of all the people you could pick, Kirksy McCord is perfect because he was a stone Cold killer And someone who would absolutely have killed a lawman, he eventually would go to prison for killing a judge, just a bad guy Right? And over the next three year Three years, all these men with the exception of Kirksy were killed One by one, mysteriously though many believe that Bford Pusser was responsible for their deaths. Kirksy would escape Vengeance Because he killed so many people, he was already in prison and he is still alive to this day. and he is always denied involvement in Pauline's murder. So you know, you have this build upp and this timeline of Pusser going to war with all his mafia people and this is the time, you know, he shows up to the hospital with two shots to the face. He ends up shooting someone else in the back This is a pilot time. And so the fact that the Dixie Mafia shows up in the middle of the night shooting into them, it fits within everything that we've been seeing, you know leading up to this, essentially. Come Christmas Day a year later, december twenty fifth, nineteen sixty eight. Pusser responds to a disturbance involving Charles Hamilton. He's a convicted murderer. Hamilton fired on Pusser who shot him dead in response Now, look. Hamilton was a known killer and You use deadly force in order to stop someone. You don't use it to slow someone down. So if Hamilton's going to fire a Pusser, then we would say, yeah, he gets to shoot back, but he shoots back, kills Hamilton in response. In nineteen seventy two, Buford Pusser was defeated in his bid for reelection to shheriff. And then fast forward, february twenty second, nineteen seventy three A movie based on Sheriff Buford Pusser's life, Walking Tall is released This is a big ear forirm. So he just lost the re election the year before, but the next year, he is riding high. He is part of Hollywood. Walking Tall is all about the famous Sheriff Bufred Pusser It was directed by Phil Carlson and it starred Joe Don Baker as Bauford and Elizabeth Hartman as Pauline. and it was an absolute blockbuster. People loved it. I mean you heard this Teline, you can't make up this type of stuff, except they're now getting to see it on the big screen. He is the quintessential sheriff Yeah, and it's going to get even better for him because, you know, his law enforcement career is kind of coming to a halt But all of a sudden he's about to be a movie star because not only has he had this movie made about him But now they want to make a sequel and they decide, you know Jon Baker, he's great Well I have him when we could have Beuford. And Bauford Pusser on august second, nineteen seventy four was sign a contract to play himself in an upcoming sequel of Walking Tall. He attends a press conference in Memphis letting the public know about this upcoming. So he decides after this, he's going to go to sign some autographs because he's a big deal now And he goes to the McNary County Fair and livestock show in Selmer Tennessee Selmer. Well them. Silmer. And his daughter is there. He sees her He's drinking vodka in his cup in a dry county where he's enforcing on the alcohol laws Drinking vodka.'s been drinking vodka all day And He decides, okay, he's going to go home in his new Tour Vt And while he's driving home, he hits an embankment at a high speed. He's only about four miles away from home. The car wrecks It catches fire and he is ejected from the vehicle Unfortunately, his daughter was riding as a passenger in a car just behind him and unfortunately came upon the scene and actually found her father. His final words were her. N Puser did not survive his injuries and passed away. he was only thirty six years. Oh, Now state troopers would determine that the cause of the accident was Pussers drinking highigh speed and failure to wear A seat belt, though many in the area believe to this day that the vehicle of the beloved sheriff was sabotaged. There had been at least seven attempts on Puszer's life during his time as sheriff So it was easy to believe that someone was successful, though, no evidence has ever been shown to prove this and the car to this day. is in the Beuford Pusser Museum in Adamsville, Tennessee. so can go see it for yourself If you want to no autopsy was performed because it was pretty obvious. What happened? So that's nineteen seventy four. Over the decades that followed, the legend. a Beford Pusser would only continue to grow. and people would remember him as this sort of killer of society. this man who stood against all of those Forces of upheaval and crime that were rising in the country at the time and more and more, he's looked on As a hero in the movie is remembered to the extent that they decided to make a remake of walking tall And it debuted starring Dwayne The rock. Johnson On april second, two thousand. Four Pretty good when the rock's playing you. I mean, Maybe one day the rock will play me in a movie, you think? I was gonna to say I even I'd be flattered if the rock played me. Yeah. But the plot did differ slightly in this version and Pusser was not mentioned by name, but nevertheless, I mean, if you looked at Walking Tall, everyone knew it was a remake of the movie about Beuford Pusser That was something that sort of generated even more attention. thing is, during this whole period of time, Even though Pusser was beloved and even though he was praised and even though people in Tennessee just thought he was amazing and people in Aswill thought it was amazing, there were always this segment of people. who believed that Ber Pusser was not what people thought he was And they had pressed for years for the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation to look back into some of these events in Beauford Pusser's life in particular death of Pauline and that's exactly what would So february eighth, twenty twenty four Though this is in some ways a historic case has really made some revelations recently The Tennessee Bureau of Investigations oversaw the exhumation of Pauline Pusser's body from the Addamsville Cemetery in Adamsville, Tennessee. Now this was done after the TBI received a tip that an autopsy was never performed on Pauline at the time of her murder, despite that strange scene, right? Bs of her brain and her head were found two miles away from the crime scene. You would think that alone would make things suspect, especially if you have four potential assassins out there, they want to recreate the scene that had never been done, and so the TBI decides to exhume her body. As a result, the state launched a new investigation to try and solve this decades old cold case Now, it was found during reexamination of the case that doctor Michael Ravel, who is an emergency medicine physician and medical examiner, studied post mortem photographs, crime scene photographs, and notes made by the medical examiner at the time and Buford Pusser's statements. And doctor Ravel decided after reviewing all these documents, he concluded that Pauline was more likely than not shot outside of the car, then placed inside of it In fact, Pauline had been shot twice in the back of the head, not the side of the head, but the back And he also found that cranial trauma suffered by Pauline didn't match crime scene photographs of the car's interior. There was blood spatter on the hood outside the car, which is curious if she's supposed to be sitting in the passenger seat being shot at like a drive by shooting. but somehow her blood is on the outside of the car. And this obviously contradicts Buford Puss' statements about how the shooting happened and the gunshot wound on Pusser's cheek, that jaw shot that he sustained It was actually a close contact wound and not one fired from a long range. Remember Pusser said that he was trying to help his wife when all of a sudden that black car veered up and shot him, which would mean that there was at least kind of two cars in between the two of them, some sort of distance What What Dct. Ravevel saw was that this wound didn't come from some distance. It was very close range, so close range that Dr. Ravevel thought it was likely self inflicted. So Pauline's autopsy, after decades, of course, when they exhumed her body, showed that she had a broken nose that had healed prior to her death. Remember that august eighth, we're talking about This murder happening around august thirteenth, august eighth there the deputies had said that Pusser had Broken Collin's knows And this autopsy shows that in fact, her nose had been broken recently, but it had just healed Davidson saidays this said statements from people who were around at the time that she died supported the conclusion that she was actually a victim of domestic violence It's interesting to me, someome of the people who pushed hardest for this were the Halfcocks So the people who had been sort of tortured by Beford Pusser for a long time and had at least one family member lost his gun. They've been pushing for years for somebody to look into this guy And when they start looking into it, they're seeing this stuff. and look Now it all sorts of makeakes sense, right? Like we talked about. You got the two miles between the two crime scenes and you got the brain and the skull found on the side of the road. If she was shot in the car It's not impossible. that you could have something like that happen. I mean, crazier things have happened But it makes a lot more sense if she was shot. outside of the car maybe say on the way home after that argument at the bar Shot outide her by two women who were unrelated to the Pusers. Exactly Then you see the blood and everything else on the hood and what's causing that I mean, to be frank, when her skull and her brain are being blown out of her head ono the side of the road Buser puts her in the car, starts driving down the road. He gets about two miles away and he realizes I gott to do something to make this make sense, right? And that's when he comes up with the attack And It is really important, not just for this case But for you to notice what he did He shot himself in the face He was in a hospital for weeks M because multiple surgeries. Multiple surgeries And just anytime you hear a case where it's alleged that a killer has self inflicted a wound to make it seem like they were a victim as well. Remember this guys? Well people like, would Dolly Router have really cut her own throat Just to get out of this Just to get out of a double homicide. Would she really have done that The man shot himself in The face. These are the kind of things people do when they're trying to get away with murder. And that argument has never worked on me. And it shouldn't work on you either. And the more cases you see like this, the more you should realize people in desperate situations will do desperate things that seem crazy. and that seems crazy But isn't it convenient, though that, by the way, it has to be his head because guess what she shot in exactly. And so for them to be sitting in the same car, it has to be of the same thing. Isn't it convenient though, that she gets shot twice in the back of the head from this terrible drive by shooting when really you would think the Dixie Mafia is after Pusser and not Pauline, that he only gets shot in the jaw? Something that look I can't bring myself. I think right now I can't bring myself to shoot myself in the jaw. But of all the places on my head, probably the safest bet to shoot right there because whatever, I'll just, you know have a broken jaw for a little bit, but I won't be dead. My brain won't be on the hood of the car. And the thing is about the Dixy Mavia. I grew up in The part of Alabama that is was, some say, still is So unclear whether Dixie Moffin still exists. Some people say it doesn't exist anymore, some people say it does. If you're listening, Dixie Mafia I wouldn't claim that it still exists, of course. I would never say something like that. But I grew up in a part of Alabama that was very much the Dixie Mafia's territory and Just the stories you would hear about the things that happened And the way they own the police and they own the judges and the people who would die and they would disappear, people would get blown up In my lifetime, there was a guy blown up on his I was in high school when this happened, blown up on his lawn mower Never solved that one There was a nurse blown up in her truck when she flipped the lawnmower guy when he engaged the blades. Boom The Lady blown up in her truck when she did the turn signal. Good reason never to use your turn signal. J didid the turn signal, blew up. People get blown up all the time, they disappear, they like end up in Minehafts or Smith Lake or wherever they end up, you know, It was just the kind of thing where you just knew you just don't mess with these people and if you mess with these people're going to end up dead. And the fact of the matter is that Euford Pusser had been attacked that morning by the Dixie Mafia They would have killed him They would have gotten out of that car Oen that door pulled him out and shot him again in the head to make sure he was dead. The fact that he lived is the best evidence, some of the best evidence that he was not targeted by the Dixie mafia because he lived. and Alice is right. I mean, this is a pretty serious wound But it's not being shot twice in the back of the head, which is a really good way to kill somebody By way. He was shot once in the cheek. Trough Yeah I don't want to get shot in the cheek, Bad place to get shot. But if you're gonna get shot in the head, probably the best place Pretty lucky if you're going to get shot in the head that it goes in your cheeks. So it's not surprising that in August of twenty twenty five after this investigation the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation, they do release this multiple hundreds of pages of report concluding that Beeford Pusser had indeed killed his wife. Now he has long since died And no charges can be brought against him But this revelation has brought closure to Pauline's family, her younger brother Griffin Mullin said he was grateful to know what happened to Pauline. He went on to say that he wasn't entirely surprised because he knew there was some trouble in her marriage, although she wasn't one to talk about her problems. He remembers his sister as sweet as a people person to anyone could go to an issue with F Avice now desespite the fact that VFer Puser has been identified as a murderer by the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation. The Beeford Puser Museum is still open in Adamsville, Tennessee. You can still visit it and every year They give the Buford Pusser shheriff of the year awward. T The sheriff Somewhere Maybe now it turns into more of a like serial killer of the of the year. Probably like the the Savannah Guthrie, her mom's case, that sheriff. he'll probably win it this year. But they give one they get one every year. So in Adamsville In that county in Tennessee, Bzzer is still viewed as a hero and many people reject the findings. at the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation Insurance isn't one size fits all. That's why drivers have enjoyed prorogressives name your Pice tool for years now. With the nameame Your Price tool, you tell them what you want to pay and they'll show you options that fit your budget. So whether you're picking out your first policy or just looking for something that works better for you and your family, they make it easy to see your options. Visit progressive dot com Find a rate that works for you with the name Y your price tool. Progressive Casualty inssurance compompany and affiliates price and coverage match limited by state law What a fast and furious life. It's not like he the truth. I mean he did get away with murder for a very long time, but it's not like he then got to live this long life and died in his old age, a legend He really went out out of fury, right? He signed a deal. He was about to be a movie star. and ruined it all by being Ber, right? He was always very close to the line and I think that the Drive byy trruckers knew a little bit more. I think actually a lot of people knew this and the fact that the TBI reopened this goes to how long this has been kind of the undercurrent about his reputation. And if you want to listen to Drive byy trruckers, the album is The dirty South which has several songs that involve U Beauford Pser including Let's see The boy from Alabama is a big one about him The Beauford stick So the beeford stick and the boys from Alabama both Pominently feature Beford Pusser and referenced the fact that he was not exactly the upstanding low man that some people wanted You to believe he was. So there you go guys. And look, what can come from this? number one, I think law enforcement was a little bit better than it was back then. And I think also it's worth noting that even after fifty years, you can still find justice in cases. If people are committed and they are dedicated to finding the truth and they don't let legend get in the way and they look to the science and they look to the facts and they follow the evidence evenven a case like this can be solved. And so good for the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation for not covering this up But for getting to the bottom of it. and I'm glad that Pauline and her family can finally get. justice I'm so glad that Pauline still had living relatives to be able to have this type of closure because I mean, most people decades later know of Bauford Pusser as the legend of Walking tall rather than this incredibly violent person who lived a fiery life and was a murderer at the end of the day and the worst kind of murder. Prayed on The week, right? By week, I mean, he was the sheriff. He was elected to protect the citizens around him and he used that same gun instead of protecting to turn it on his own wife because He had aspirations and she wanted a divorce, right? She said, I'll ruin you. I mean, this is years later, we don't know if she actually said that, but that's probably certainly the undertone of what was happening. And it wasn't like this came out of nowhere, especially when it comes to something like this, peopleeople don't usually just pull out a gun and kill their wives or kill their husbands. There's usually some sort of a history of domestic violence. and Her autopsy shows that There probably was. That broken nose probably was preceded or in conjunction with lots of other bruises that don't show up on an autopsy decades later And sure, there are always people who can snap in a moment. But Bread has said this before If there's someone in your life who is willing to strangle you, they're able to kill you. Right. And I say that because I have heard multiple They're usually women. who say, Well, he didn't mean to. He didn't really hurt me If someone will put their hands around your neck They are capable. of ending your life because that has been statistically shown to be basically the next step of strangling someone Think about what it takes. It's in incredibly close contact. You're looking someone in the eyes, that doesn't stop you And that's what you had here. And Kind of like the other instances of violence that we have around Puser. Whatever Pauline said, whatever she threatened He shot her like a coward He shot her on the back of the head He didn't shoot her in the front I mean, even being this Big tall, walking tall man, he didn't do it like a man. He did it like a coward as all cowards are who abuse and murder their loved ones. And so while this seems like this fantastical wow, I'm so you know, I really am so glad that we have closure this many decades later, this is a story that we see all the time. which is domestic abuse suffered in silence. And hope what comes from this is not like more Buford Pusser awards and like more remakes of the movie Walking tall. but rather to show that even the shiniest flashiest Hollywood like figures are not that far from the silent struggle that many ofen women face I'm glad you you mentioned that Aliceon and I'm glad you brought it into the modern world and our modern Pms and Alice is right, we talked about the strangulation before. Someone will strangle you, they will kill you. it's just a matter of time. They will kill you. I would like to believe that no one listening to this podcast is dealing with that, but I know some of you are. And I know the situation is really difficult. And I know it's the easiest thing in the world to say you should leave because You know, how dangerous leaving is You know it from your own experience and the statistics back you up. the most dangerous thing a woman can do is leave a man who's abusing her because that is when Oftentimes that abuse leads to murder. Unfortunately Staying isn't really an option either. Because if you stay, as I said, eventually the same thing' going to happen. And all I can say is there are a lot of people out there who want to help you. There are a lot of resources out there, There are police officers, One great thing about, I would say the last thirty years, law enforcement's approach to abuse to domestic violence has changed dramatically. It's no longer, well, that's a family affair, that's not something we want to be involved in. It's not something we take seriously. Lw enforcement knows to take it seriously. They are trained to take it seriously. The laws take it more seriously. There are more resources available to you now Please, please, please, if you are in a situation like that Reach out to somebody, find help helps out there. I know it's hard I know it's scary, but You don't deserve that, you deserve so much more and so much better and you deserve to live in a safe place. you don't have to fear for your life every day. This is just one of many examples, like Alice said This story has been told a thousand times. Usually it's not a famous lawman, but it happens over and over again. So try and find help. Once again, we're not the best people to reach out to, but if we're the only people you can reach out to, reach out to us We're always willing to talk to you and do what we can to help Wellse, is there anything else you want to say about this case or anything related to it before we move on? You know, I think it's actually kind of fitting that for once we did an episode in one episode because I don't think Bauford Pusser deserves more. And He's got awards, he's got movies after him. Pauline deserves more, and I'm glad that she finally has justice. But I kind of like that, you know We're able to do this case in one episode when we hardly ever are able to do that I know. That's so rare We' going through this like metaphorical justice. Yeah, exactly. Okay, well, that's enough. about Bford Pusser, as far as I'm concerned, we can never mention his name again. If you want to talk about somebody, talk about Pauli Okay, Well, Alice, do you want to answer a question?? Let's definitely do a question because yesterday someone asked us about religion. There you go. Now we're going to talk about politics. Okay. so this is And by the way, if you leave a five star review, you think everybody knows this now, leeave a five star review. Leave a question, we will answer them So this one is about four profit prisons. This is from fiveive Stars. fiveive Stars wants to know. Do you believe that if for profit prisons, i. e., private prisons were' eradicated That sentencing bias would be eradicated too. What do you think There's a lot going on there. I don't know what you mean by sentencing bias, but I can say unless the judge is corrupt, which we've seen happen before. There's a famous case out of Pennsylvania with a judge who was sending, I think it was children to a children's I't know what they call Juven facility. Juvenile facility exactly and getting kickbacks from it. That guy was sent to prison and deserved it. But unless it's a corrupt judge, I don't think whether the profit' for profit or not for profit. has anything to do with sentencing or sentencing disparities So to the extent your question is asking that, no, I don't think I don't think it would have any effect on sentencing And again, there could be correct judges, but generally when you have a sentencing memo Or sentencing memos are just briefs that are written at sentencing and then the probation officer This is in the federal system because not all states and localities have enough funding for like an officer who does a full report. those pres sentence reports They say everything about the person, takes into account the children they have, the financial aspects, you know, where their family members live. There's no point in any of that process. where there's a line that says something like how many beds do we have at jails? How many do we need to fill? Those are two completely separate things. So typically a judge has no idea whether the jails are full or have room for more people. So those are two completely different things. And the reason so unfortunately in a lot of states, I can only speak for the state that I live in because I read the news about it, but most places there's overcrowding of prisons because they cost a lot of money to maintain and so they can contract with for profit not to make money from them, but in order to alleviate the very problems that civil rights suits are brought about in like overcrowding situations. Let me just say this. I think generally speaking, for profit, whenever someone talks about something that's for profit, it's usually some sort of boogeyman to like, Ohh my gosh, for profit. that must be bad. The vast majority of things in your life are for profit and most of them work pretty well. I mean, the profit motive, we have live in a capitalist society, prorofit motive generally is pretty good at creating like good things So I don't necessarily think just because it's a for profit prison, it's going to be worse than a state prison. And let me just say this. Are there bad things about for profit prisons Sure Have you seen a state run not for profit prison? because They're also really bad, like, so I think to some extent it's overstated Prisons are a problem in the United States. We can debate this til the end of time. Wh this's true. We have a really large prison population. and most of the people in prison, despite what some people will tell you Are there for a really good reason because they're violent and they've done violent things and you want them to be in prison But We have a prison overcrowding problem. and so some states have turned to a for profit model to deal with that. I don't know if it's better than a purely state run system or not, maybe some intermediate system would be better, but just because it's for profit, to me That doesn't tell me anything. Like I need give me some content to that. Like what is it about this particular for profit prison? because it may not even be all for profit prisons that's problematic to you. Why do you think that's an issue? Is it better in a state run prison? Becauseuse I think you need to show that too. You know, if you want to point to, well, for profit prisons do X and that's bad Well Do comparable state prisons do that Are they better at that Are they actually worse at it? I mean, these are the kind of things I think you have to think about. Don't be blinded by these terms that are usually meant to incite you, actually ask for some details and some content and use that information to make an informed decision about whether or not you think something is good or bad. Just my thoughts on that Okay. All right, let's see if we can find another less whatever Qestion, let's see. You're allowed to ask anything. And these are good questions because the when you hear it, you have a visceral reaction for it profit. But now as I've gotten older, I actually realize, h, for profit means they have a motivation to make this better for me. Yeah. you know, and I get it. I mean, you could imagine like Well it's for profits, so they really have to cut costs. So you know, the inmates get Less good food orr they don't have as many televisions or I mean, whatever. L you could imagine things cost cutting mechanisms that would be bad And that may well be the case. I think the answer there though is, given that this is a quasi governmental system, sort of public private partnership All you need is if you're going to have for profit prisons just have really high standards and say, look We will lease to you to do this, but you need to meet these minimum standards And they either can do that or not. And if they can't do it, there won't be any for profit prisons. If they can do it, great If they can't do it, you might ask yourself whether your standards is too high. I mean, that's also a possibility. But All right, let's see. okay, This person wants to know and we may have answered this before in some guys, but they want to know how did we feel the first time true crime garage mentioned our podcast or reached out to us. I'll let you answer because this was like pretty sure I like texted you. I was like, Oh my God. It was actually, I think your voice reached like another octave. It was very sweet. There's been a few times like that. Alison Sweeney when she first reached out, we love you, Alison, please come back. and Tue c garage. And o and Tim and Lance. Oh yeah. I would say those were like the three big true or there's probably more I'm forgetting. but I specifically remember when those types of thing, like those outreaches happened because I think you lost all cool. You are so excited. and And I love seeing you like that because you are so all the time. I mean, you really put your finger on it. I mean those were three So they were moments that are like Yeah, peopleeople have always asked, when do you think you made it? We didn't everbody like. But when stuff like that happens, you're like, I'm not nobody Yeah Yeah. I mean, when Tim and Lance first reached out It's just weird. It's like anything else. And I'm sure everyone who's ever been in a field that has like really important famous people or whate any field, right? Like whatever field you're in, if there was a professor or a practitioner whose book was taught to you in school and then you have an interaction with them It's sort of like you're like, wow I remember I was reading this guy's book and now I'm talking to him about X, Y, and Z And So Timmy Lancem and I'd listened to missing Mur Murray and then missing For years And just loved like everything they did. And the first time they reached out to us and wanted us to come on their show, it was like, wow. And it was like episode three. It was so early. It was like they really took a chances we callem our podfathers. They are our podfathers. Whatelt what it feels like, what it felt like still does, even to this day is like they They're the ones who are the industry for them to reach out, it like breaks that fourth wall. I'm like, no way we're part of the same industry Yeah, That's what it feels like So that was cool. And then I think the first time T Cre Garage mention us and this was doubly cool was the Asia degree case. because We had done the Asa degree case and then reached out to them and were like, hey, you know you guys are so much bigger than you have so much influence. This case is really interestnteresting and it's one that's become really important to us Can you talk about it And then they did They talked about it and they did they did episodes on it and they mentioned us and it was like that was cool for two reasons. Number one, because I'd been listening to the Tr Crime Garage for forever and just loveved True Crime Garage. And number two, that not only did they mention us, but it was in the context of this case that we thought was really important. it just felt like, wow, like because This is fun. We love doing this. It's fun. There's so many reasons we want to do this podcast. But when we actually would like to have a positive influence on the world and it's hard to do that. It's really hard to do that. It's easy to say but it's really hard to actually do it And That felt like that It felt like, wow, this story is now getting out to people who never would have heard it. because they did this and also a testament to them because they could have done anything, you know, But they looked at the they actually took the time to look at the case and said, let's do this case and then talked about it So Yeah, those those were those are pretty cool Pre pretty cill moments. And then obviously Aliceon Swey was just like That's still unreal. I still can't believe she. Every time we talk to her. I know. She's great. She really is so cool on so many levels And why also This is going to be a humble brag because I actually still can't believe it. I didn't believe it Is that three years ago now I couldn't believe it three years ago when we were nominees for Crime Con Clue Aard. creator of the year. I really thought that was a fluke. When we won it, the two of us looked at each other and just started laughing because it was like a few seconds for us actually we were both like they read the wrong name. Like it's not us. It's Nancy Grace, clearly. And so thanks to you guys are onene of the nominees again for Creator of the Year year and I can't believe it. Like even though this is three years past and I look at that award behind you and I've never gotten to touch it for three years, I still can't believe that three years later, people are listening to us and voted for us. be a fine. Like we're not going to win. It's fine because like if you look at everybodyse It is an honor to be nominated. If look at everyone else. they have like ten times more subscribers than us. I don't know. how we're in the same list. Well, and it's a testament to you guys It's a testament to our listeners and how awesome they are and how I don't know what the word is committed you guys are. L y'all there's so many what our advertisers say is conversion rates Yeah. like I mean we might be small, but we're mighty because you guys actually care. Exactly. You guys really care and it means so much to us. And guys b so many Lola blankets. M y'all keeping Lola in business. I mean, I think it's only our podcast keeping Lola in business. Yeah. We drive we were in Utah and we saw a big billboard for lola blankets and I thought We did that So thank you guys though, because it is all you. and that's one reason I love that award Is it purely based on? choice Y'all could have voted for anybody and chose to vote for us and we're in the top five and we just think that's awesome. So I'd be remissed to say because I'm just still so excited about it. Come to Crime Con. If you're not coming to Crime Con, get someone to buy one for you, but we are selling Crime con only sock cuters Psecutor socks. We are very excited about them. One size fits also it doesn't matter the size because last year I got real stressed out about all the sizes of the shirts guys.' so sorry about that. Be a prosasaky. Be a processasaky. Yeah. so canan't wait to see you guys. I mean by the time this drops, I'm not showing exactly the dates isither Right before I think this is right before CrimeCon. This will be the episode right before CrimeCon. So we'll be seeing you soon in Vegas canan't wait if you're buying a last minute ticket, procutors get prosecutors for ten percent off. Hope you'll be there, Caesar's palace. It's going to be awesome And yeah And We are selling crime insurance. It's probably too late for that. But if you go to our our store on bonfire. you can get a Las Vegas themed crime con shirt. I hope you'll check that out. All right guys, well this has been awesome. If you have any thoughts, shoot us an email prorosecutorss pod at gmo. com add prorosecutors Pod for all your social Media. Join the gallery, which is our fan run fan created Facebook Group. We'd love to see you there. You can discuss this case or any other case. If you want to watch us record these episodes, you can do so for three dollars a month on Patreon. If you want episodes early and ad free, you can either do that through Patreon for three dollars a month or if you hate Patreon and so many of you do. For three dollars three a month on Apple Podcasts, you can also receive the episodes Early and ad free, but rest assured If you want to save that three dollars for your monthly coffee That's fine. Every single thing we do will always be available to you for free and you get to listen to ads from Lola blankets, the most comfortable blanket in the road Cut prosecutors are forty percent off. Okay. All right, Alice. Do you anything else to add before we sign off for today? I can't wait to see all of you at Crime C. comeome get a procuter. I just love saying it so much. She does love it, Yes. come get some socks. o All right guys, we'll see y'all soon. we'll see you next week. Well, we'll see you Crime C. We'll talk to you next week. But until then I'm Breittt. and I'm Alice. And we are The prosecutors