Biological Age Results

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But comparing car insurance prices with mustard.co.uk? Easy. See what you could save in just a few minutes. Click mustard.co.uk. Authorised and regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority. See website for details. AREO Original Podcast . Work is changing, and so's how we feel about it. The podcast that will guide you through getting ahead, growing your interest, and still having a little life outside of it is Reworking. Join me Tim Campbell, my guest Alistair Campbell, journalist Anna Whitehouse, entrepreneur Mike Suter, comedian Russell Kane and many, many more. Listen to Reworking now on the Rayo app, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcast . A Rayo Original Podcast . We took your blood. Come on in, doctor. What do you got for me? Tim Campbell, your chronological age is 48. Your real biological age on the inside is that he's nuts . This is What's my age again, the podcast where we test the story your body is telling against the life you've actually lived. My guest today is Tim Campbell, entrepreneur, investor, MBE , former winner of The Apprentice, Torso of the week. And now the man's sitting beside Lord Allen Sugar in the boardroom, watching others make the mistakes he's already made. Tim's journey has not been a straight line. Oh Tim. From his roots in East London to winning the very first series of The Apprentice, as well as business failures, reinventions, and building a career defined by purpose, mentorship, and impact. He's someone who's had to rework success more than once. Now, with his new podcast, Reworking he's digging into exactly that, how we rethink work, leadership, and the systems we build our lives around, and what happens when the old version stops working. So today we're asking what does a lifetime of pressure, reinvention, and respon sibility actually due to your body. And has Tim Campbell learned how to work smarter, not just in business, but in aging itself. Welcome to What's My Age Again. Yeah, it's a good intro. It's really good. You've achieved a lot in your life. I don't know about a lot. I think I've been okay. I've done all right. My mum will be very happy. She's like she probably wrote the intro for you, right? Yeah, she said it is. Shall I do it again in a Jamaican ac No, no, we won't cancel you. She'd love you. She'd invite you for rice and peas and you'd be fine. Don't worry about it. But I would eat it. I'm not like the British who are scared of spice. You have it all. I know that. But do you have it all, Tim? So you you meant you asked about uh do I feel I've been successful? I don't yet. I've I think I've got lots more to do. Good. Um and I don't think there's enough time to do it in. So I'm really hoping that you're telling me I'm gonna live forever now, right? Maybe. When you say there's not enough time, do you mean that life is short? Yes. So I've I've I've been faced with the fragility of life uh several times, right? So I've lost friends when I was very young. A good friend of mine, Ian, passed away actually when he was in Spain. He'd just finished his GCSEs, was about to go into A-levels. They went to Spain on a trip and unfortunately passed away. He got hit by a car that was driving on the wrong side of the road. And Ian was so full of life. He was so free. But at that young age where mortality hits you in the face, it was quite rapid. And I I think that was important for me not to take things for granted because you you feel when someone tells you you're gonna be 40, you feel that's forever, right? But at that point I realised how important life was. In addition to that, in a similar way, I was diagnosed with cancer, testicular cancer when I was relatively young, and you know how when that big C hits you in the face, right? Um lots of things changed, but it was more about prioritizing things. And I still think I've got so much to do. Is it true that you went to work or presented awards two days after your cancer surgery? Yeah. I I my wife was like Tim you need to rest. I was like I can't rest. Yeah. I how can I rest? I just been told that I've got a a chance to continue li fe when the doctor told me the word and then everything shut off for a second. And then once you wake up the next day, my reaction to it was, I have to go I have to go faster. I have to do more because if that ever hit me again or anything stopped me from potentially doing what I'd I'd really regret not having done the things that's still on my my list. So my bucket list gets ticked off continuously, much the annoyance of my wife and my bank balance , but I think time is precious, right? I was just gonna ask you about your wife's reaction to that level of work ethic. 'Cause um I know you have a really great relationship and you made a super cute post on Mother's Day about the women in your life who had influenced you. I was missing from it. Even though it was it was incorporating all mothers. Yeah, I think quietly cheering you on. There you go. Um does she feel that you should slow down? Because I think that you and I, Tim, are not too dissimilar. I have a lot of tabs open in my mind as well. There's a lot that I want to achieve. And from someone who built everything that I have from scratch, I feel that it's almost rude to turn down an opportunity and I have a partner who says do less, stay home. Is that what your wife is saying to you? Massive. I think B and J should get together and have a conversation because from my perspective , I I find value in the work that I do, and I've I I feel very grateful that I get to do the things I do, right? Sitting on this podcast, going and meeting people, going into rooms I shouldn't really be in, right? Or I've can never have imagined I would have been in. And I can't take that for granted. But my wife, she's incredibly caring and protective us as a family. Yeah. And she doesn't want me to burn out or what it is. But she also knows, and I I don't know if it's the same for you, if I wasn't doing what I was doing, I wouldn't be happy. Yeah. So is that what you find as well? Yeah. And that's part about it, because I know she really cares, but I have to kind of go against her instinct to protect to, go out and do the things that I'm fortunate to do because I like the life that we live, I like the things that we get to do. I feel the responsibility to make sure that my children have more than I did. And that really drives me on. But at the same time, I've always got to decide on my head I don't want to upset Jasmine either. Because she is protective. But I have to ignore her. Jasmine is a hot name. Why? I feel like a man will just do anything a jasmine says. It started with Aladdin and it's just it's just a bulletproof name. Like, I'm not sure . I keep telling her it's a bit of a shrub, but I'll get a slap in the ear for doing that and she doesn't like it. She sounds great. Um so what age are you now? Now I am forty-nine. Well, I'm about to be forty-nine. So this is my forty-ninth year. What's your birthday? Uh 27th of June. Well, it's the 30th. I know. To cancers. Do you believe in astrology? Do you think you're a cancer? Uh meaning . I'm sure Jasmine has been through all this with you. Your your love language, your astrology. What's her star sign? So she is a Scorpio and she's the twenty-fourth of October. Nice. She's good. She protects me. Yes. And keeps me straight. Are you sensitive being a cancer? Like are you very loving and forgiving, but if something really hurts you, do you bite? Yes. On one hand, I do buy into the generic traits of astrology , right? But I think there are lots of people who will be protective and want to laugh at the right part. But I think as a general stance, I am very, very much a homebody. I want to make sure everyone in my circle is prote cted and I am quite emotionally sensitive. Um, which goes against the fact that if you cross me, it's not gonna end well because I'm very, very protective. I bet Lord Sugar loved hearing that. That's a that's But it's it's something I actually learned from him. So when in the show, what people see is this very hard external image of a man who can bang a table and point a finger. And he has all of those traits but he is incredibly generous really kind very very protective of his circle he's definitely not cancer but the reality is that he shows those traits of what I feel a good father figure should be. And for me growing up without a father figure, he was one of the earlier ones who I saw, oh, that's how you do this. That's what I want to replicate. And that's the kind of person that I want to be. So yes, I do believe a little bit in the generic traits, but I don't wake up in the morning and live my life by what's in a a newspaper telling me what to do today, right? I'm interested sometimes, like when I hear that you're a cancer and I'm a cancer. I don't know. I don't know how much I believe in it. I'm probably on the same page as you. But I just like to I like to see if there's anything. I think people just want to find connection. You want to find something that says, are you part of my tribe or not? And I think in this age of echo chambers and noise and lots of stupid shouty arguments, actually we're desperate to find things that we connect on, right? Because life is short for many people. We've seen it over the last couple of years. COVID was a horrible time for lots of people. And post that I think people are desperate to find more things to connect with rather than not. But that's why I think I'm so focused on getting people to think about how they can re theywork what they're doing rather than just chasing dreams, plan something where you can have what a really beautiful woman said to me once, Karen Blackett, she said, don't look for a work-life balance, find something you can find on a work-life blend where you're doing something you love and you're actually getting paid for it. And you're you're the manifestation of that. You built your career from nothing and now you're doing all the things that are quite cool. Everyone wants to do with you, right? But try to talk to HMRC about work-life blend. Sod them. I'm not allowed to write anything off your accountants are there's too honest thanks to Jimmy Carr now. Um can we talk about your new podcast reworking? It's so exciting that you're approaching uh business and success from a new angle. Yep. Because I think we've heard a lot about the like wake up at five, grind. Eat three placentas. Grind. You've got to sprinkle the right kind of flavor on it. I think the the reality is that work is changing rapidly, as is the world, right? And as we hear lots about technology, we hear about the the changing nature of hybrid working and that impacting on our households. I think it's the time to have a conversation where we redefine what our vision of work should be, rather than just following on the train tracks and saying, as my mum told me, work for 25 years, retire, and then disappear. That's very different for lots of people. And I think, and I hope you understand this from a parent perspective, I'm really concerned about what I tell my children to do because my son, who's now in the stage of A levels, I'm like, what am I advising him to do? Because my mum told me, just go to university. That's the way that you climb the social mobility ladder and everything will be okay. But lots of kids who have taken that journey now feel that they've been lied to because they get out the other side, there's no jobs, everyone's telling them they're shirkers and they're soft w snowflakes, and they're like, hold on a second, this is what you told me to do. So I think we're at a really interesting stage stage where technology and the way that we want to live longer and healthier and conversation, rightful conversations about wellness and health, they're all interacting now where I think we need to stop press pause and hear for some wise heads about what can the new world of work look like. Because I think if we don't, one you're gonna let lots of people gonna be left behind, those who are not digitally savvy or don't understand how important wellness is, but also we're missing a huge opportunity to reformat what what work could look like. Because if we don't have to do lots of the menial tasks that we were all tasked with, imagine the creativity space that's left to redesign exactly what we want. So I'm really excited to talk to more people. Hopefully you'll come on. I will come well what am I gonna tell people about? You're my best TikToks. No, no, no. I see you you you're very funny, but you're you're you're incredibly strategic. You're you're very, very strategic in terms of the way that you have redefined what you are and not to be seen through lenses that other people want to put you in, right? And I think lots of people I think will get huge value from that because I I I watch my wife. My wife is an amazing woman, right? Amazing woman. But I don't I never understood until conversations with her how much mental tiredness goes in just preparing for going to work on a day-to-day basis. I don't have to think about what my hair looks like. I don't have to think about what kind of shoes that I've got on. And that is something I want to be able to play a part in, re-defining and re-helping. So cool. Yeah, I don't think you should you you're you're you're very funny, but you're much more than that. I try. I might have fallen into this by accident. I don't know how strategic I am, especially now. You believe that? Yeah. You you you you you're not you're not you're not sitting on a on a sea just floating around. You've planned where you are, no? In a way. Well, I would say I am very resilient. And you're very resilient. Do you think resilience is something you're born with , or do you think it comes from obstacles in your life? Definitely obstacles. Yeah. Lots of people have bad stuff happen, right? And people will react differently to those bad circumstances. For some it can make them very bitter . Um for others it can make them incredibly strong and want to help other people who've been in similar situations. I think the nurture nature debate sits side by side with regards to that. I've had a number of difficult scenarios where growing up in a really troubled environment means that I am forever trying to help people be better in whatever situation there are. So at the center of all the myriad of nonsense that I do , it's all about creating platforms where people can do more, be more, and succeed more. Because I never had somebody who could stand in my corner. So I want to be that person for somebody else, right? Um I always say if if I wasn't here, I'd want lots of uncles and aunties to come around and look after my children. Yeah. And I think you can't ask for help unless you've been in that situation. So I think I've learnt resilience because whenever I've been done over, other ed, or miss uh misdescribed by some people, I've always wanted to say, all right, I'm gonna punch you in the nose. That's my kind of reaction to that scenario. Do you know what? When you said that, I was like, why did I agree to do that? It's gonna haunt me forever. I'm so glad I grew up in times when social media wasn't prevalent because but this this was one I I slipped back in. The the tour so the week was interesting. Trying to compete with Usher Raymond was like kind of a a hide into nothing, shall we say. But um hang on a second, because we'll get back into the resiliency. You beat Usher. I don't know if I beat Usher. I was featured in a torso alongside Usher. Did he win Torso of the Week? He won Torso the Week. We were co-Torsos of the Week. So essentially I won one of those weeks and another But okay, well you beat him the week that you won. And he beat you. I took the mantle that that that week, yes. Okay. What what how does this competition is it only men? It's only men. How do you put yourself forward for tourists of the week? You have very interesting PR people behind you who think that well you know how these things work, right? No, I think what I was try I grew up in a in an age where being a man was linked to exterior things like muscle and being strong. Right. And that was a really solid thing of my youth. It was men were fit, you had muscles, you had a six pack. Um if you were going carnival, you opened up your shirt and everything. And we thank you for those . But then again, I think now being the father of a son, just like me looking at as at my daughter and stuff that she's having to face, as I've learned from my wife's eyes, that's not always positive. Because yes, I used to wake up in the morning and do a hundred press-ups and a hundred sit-ups, but why was I doing that? And there was a fragility underneath it where I was trying to build something that wasn't actually going to be reinforced by how many press ups or sit ups I could do. And I think now as an older man , I kind of I don't regret those days because I like the fact that I'm healthy and I'm and I can do stuff. But I now want to be recognized or acknowledged for more than the fact that I have muscles. Yeah. Does that make sense? Same. It is and I think that was a small a small look into what my wife was trying to explain to me that she as a woman has to deal with. She's trying to redevelop her personality and her massive amounts of skill beyond her physical aesthetics where men are chasing the physical aesthetics to try and be the leader. So although yes, I I was in tools over the week, but yeah, I'd much rather be in a category where I could be in helper of the week. Yeah, but I think torso of the week is interesting. It's fun, it's funny, and it shows that you can diversify. And it got me, it it took my notice. So on that note then page three then. What's your view on page three? Well it's tricky because actually now I know women who used to be in the Lazmatics and they would um capitalize on a structure that was not designed by them. Value was assigned by men to certain attributes that they held at the time. And I think as a young woman, especially at that time, when we had girl bands and America's next top model and really toxic messaging. Yep. Um I don't blame them. I think that I myself would capitalize on whatever I had that was of value in that culture. But now these women are doing some of them lingerie campaigns that are more for the female gays and they're more empowered. And so I think they have noticed a real change from being like, oh, this is about me now and my empowerment. And that was about men commodifying who I was. You look at Kelly Brooke and others who have done similar things, right? But I think for the male the male perspective, it feeds into this thing that you can only be defined by how strong you are. And if you don't feel you fit into that, and that whole genre of um male masculinity being purported as the strong the abs, the the fact that you could be bigger or stronger than everybody else. I think that potentially has elements to be quite toxic. Oh yeah. And I think there needs to be a sensible balance. So what the reason I liked torso the week, it allowed me to explain why being a solid torso as defined by the magazine was important to me. And it was more so about being healthy, which allowed me to go off and then work for longer hours to make sure I could go and play football with my kids and do all the stuff that I wanted to. So it was less about a vanity thing, which I think was what the platform was intended for, and more about okay, what sits behind those things. Whereas Usher's caption was, you made me want to leave the one and we start a new relationship I I have been asked repeatedly not to sing. Um so what does being a man today look like as a as I think it means more grey hairs. I worry more now. Um younger Tim had an abandonment. I I would go off and do whatever I wanted whenever I wanted to do it because I had no feel. Like applying for the apprentice. Women? Um yes, early days. Jasmine, I love you now. Let me clear, there was a time before you. But essenti ally, I fed into all the things which was how many I was going to be acknowledged for how many people I could be with, rather than this the the depth or the the value of those relationships. It was more about the numbers. And you could be forgiven for that. Talk passionately about this, I honestly believe that counselling and therapy is very, very important, right? And having gone on a whole therapeutic journey where it's uncapped some really interesting things about from my childhood to where I am now, we're all little children in big b odies, right? I know I was seeking lots of relationships to fill a hole of not feeling love. Growing up in an environment where love was a luxury because mum looking after us as a single parent, we understand that story. She didn't have the luxury of stopping just to express love as I probably needed it then because she's like, you got roof over your head and food on your table. That didn't mean she loved us any less. She just knew that she had to be careful how she loved because she had to reserve the energy to make sure she got up and did free jobs and dealt with all the crap that was outside, including people physically abusing her and mentally abusing her with words because the times are very different, right? But at the same time, as a young man, not being able to protect her or to support her, I grew up wanting to make sure that I could be defined as a man by what I felt were the images, which were go out and be attractive to the opposite sex, go out and be the cool kid in the middle of the parties, um, and with two left feet, that was quite hard to do, but I made my way through. And I did random things like I was a DJ. I used to run around playing music forever. Like music is my m I love music. But once again I did it because of the attention that I was seeking. So a big part of me is always gonna be the kid that's trying to please his mum uh and get the the acknowledgement that I've done a good job and that fills a s a space for me. So whether that is in relationships or the people I was keeping or pretending to be a DJ, lots of these things were to fill the hole that I wanted to be accepted. Can we talk about your childhood? Because um when did your dad leave? Gosh. Um so my dad left probably when I was about three, two or three, so quite early. So I don't remember him ever being there as a as a young man. But I do remember my mum often taking us to a market in Hackney where he was um a mu he sold music. So he was a DJ as well. So I subsequently, that's where I got my love of music. So I love him and have interesting thoughts about him in the same way, right? I don't love him because he gave me a receipting hairline, but he gave me a love of a love of music. There's there's certain things that you can't um dictate. But my mum used to always take us to go and see him because she knew it was important for us to have a connection to him, but he chose that that wasn't a part of his life. Now, as a father, I can't understand how that was part of his mentality, but I don't dislike him for that because I also knew I also know that my mental health was massively challenged when we had children. This image that they give you of children going to be the betterment of your life when you're sitting up in a bathroom at two o'clock in the morning with a kettle boiling because your child's got croup, yeah. That's no joke. Like lack of sleep is is tough, right? So I don't excuse what he did, but I understand it's not for everybody. And the way that you react to parenthood both on a male and a female perspective can be very hard to deal with. That being said, I will always know where my children's birthdays are. I will always know what they're doing, even if me and Jasmine weren't together. Um so having that in my mind, I don't really understand how he couldn't want to make that connection. So that was an interesting thing growing up. Was it different for you having a son than it was when you had your daughter first? Oh yeah, massively. First, because I think in some ways she wanted to create this ideal young man in the world based on her previous experience of men in life, right? So I definitely got that. For me, I wanted a son because that's what all dads want. There was no rationale behind it. It was just like, I want a boy first because we're gonna do stuff together. But actually having a daughter first completely changed my way and view of the world. Um and I think the Lord knew what he was doing when he made that happen, right? Um but having them was very different. So I knew on an innate level I had to be a role model in some way for my daughter's first ever relationships. So that put a lens on me to make sure I was showing up in the right way with Jasmine and also how I disciplined her as a child. So I made it clear I was never gonna raise my hands to my children because not judging my mum, but she didn't have the time to have deeper meaningful conversations about why this shouldn't go in the right place. She just had to do stuff quite quickly. But I knew I couldn't ever give my daughter an example of how a male could discipline her that she could potentially carry forward. But in the same way, I wanted that with my son, that I wanted him to know that his words could be used to change things as much as his fists. So they changed me in different ways, but by both of those experiences I had to think about my stance as a man, not just as a parent, but more so as a man and how it would show up for them in terms of what they saw as good examples Aaron Powell Do you think that parenting your son specifically was therapeutic in undoing some of the missing relationship that you had with your dad? I don't know. I've never thought about it. I only ask because my husband lost his dad in a different way. And then he um he found it a real surprise to become a dad to a son. Yeah. And then he he didn't foresee the things that might be lacking, the things that might be confused, the things that might be missing because he didn't have that example. And I think we parent ourselves all the time, maybe, but I f I loved that I was able to give my husband a son and that worked out a lot of those issues. Wow. Um that's really powerful. Um I think for me it was more so I didn't think about it as a replacement or to try to fix anything that I'd had because my mum was she she is amazing. Like I've I've never felt or sat down and said, I wish I had a dad around. So I got to go to all the football matches, the karate tournaments, all my mum, like she broke her. I don't know how she did it. Because I sit there and I feel guilty for complaining. I'm like, jazz, there's two of us. And both of our parents did it by themselves. Like, how did that happen, right? But I think for my son, it wasn't so much I wanted a relationship that I could fix what I had. And I'm not assuming that's what you were saying, but it was more so I just wanted to take it on face value. Yeah. I'd I'd I'd got great examples of what I didn't want. So I work from the premise like I do with regards to business. If I see somebody doing something really bad, that gives me a cue of what not to do. So that's fine. I I know I don't want to do it like that because I know the relationship or the impact on relationships they can have. So I think when I had my son, just like my daughter, actually, I just had great examples of what I didn't want to do with my children. And that wasn't always positive. Because I think I already mentioned it. I wanted to give all my children all the things I didn't have. But I think sometimes that's a bad thing because I think I've created this softer environment for them where they haven't got the same grit that we had , but at the same time, they're not in the same places that I grew up. So do they need it? It's debatable. I think they will need grit, and I am in the same position with my children. They just need it in a different way . With LinkedIn Premium All in One, you're 60% more likely to get replies from suggested prospects. So you can grow your small business. It cannot give you 60% more time in your day. It can help you sell, market and hire all in one product. It cannot find more space for all the files on your desktop. And while it can't close all your open tab s, LinkedIn Premium All-in-One can give you all the tools to grow your small business in one tab. Try for free at LinkedIn.com/slash allinwh. What's on TV? The answer is a lot. There's never been more choice over what to put on the box with an abundance of great new shows, but you can miss them all if you don't know where to look. And that's where the Pilot TV podcast comes in, your essential guide to every show that matters. Each week we sift through the very best in prestige TV to help you decide what's worth spending your time on and what isn't. So join me, James Dyer, as well as venerable TV critics Boyd Hilton and Kay Rivero, and let us help take the stress out of your downtime, the Pilot TV podcast. Because you can't watch everyt hing . It sounds like your new podcast, Reworking, is addressing that new forms of doing business, new ideas about how to integrate technology. Does technology at age almost forty nine is that something that makes you feel old or are you up on it? No, no. I I'm I'm obsessed. Yeah. So yeah, absolutely obsessed. I have the most neuro spicy household ever. We have dyslexia, we've got aut ism, we've got we've got everything, ADHD, and these all diagnosed, it's not just cool things that we just woke up in the morning. They're all diagnosed, right? And I'm the only one not diagnosed in my household. And my wife was like, Tim, why don't you take the the test? I was like, I I I don't think I need to. It doesn't do anything for me. And what does do stuff for me is how I manage how I work best. And the reason why I think reworking is a really interesting conversation at the moment is that I'm trying to find the way that people can work best because if I get the best out of people I employ or the best out of people I work with or the best out of relationships I have, I'm going to be better. So this is an altruistic kind of view of leadership which says lead with kindness around how you can facilitate better conversations, better relationships first. And tech nology allows me to do that because like you, I've got like 20 million tabs open at any one time, right? Sitting here having a conversation with you, I'm thinking, how do I get to my next meeting? How do I make sure I've done this? What's up? Constantly going off in my head . And I've learnt to deal with that and I now know with technology I could deal with it even better. So I'm a monster now. So lots of the L L Ms. Um so I don't even know what an LL LM is. Yes you because you have you chat GPC. Oh I use Gemini. Gemini. Okay. Uh Gemini Claude, all of these ones, they're all they're all large language models, right? Large language models. You're not old. Come on, please. LLM. Biologically, I'm seventy-seven . Anyway, just to give you a preview of how bad this could go. If this goes bad, I'm tipping over the table. The studio's getting trashed. It's not happening, right? So let's let's just make sure it's not a nice side. Right. So l language large language models. So technology allows me to process all the myriad of things going in my head and deal with them. Because before I'd have to have notepads or texts to myself and then I'd lose the text and then I'd start again. It's like, oh, what's happening here? Okay, walk me through an example of how if I've got 50 tabs open, I'm Tim Campbell, I'm starting my day, torso of the week, businessman, MBE, entrepreneur. My big ears, but go on through. How am I using am I opening Gemini Claude, Chat GPT? Do you have a preference? And then what do you do? So what I think the LLMs do for me is that I can have an idea and actually then take it full circle for execution or at least testing if it's a viable one. Because at any one moment I'm thinking of a new jeans range that has a bit of like in the right place that will fit people better and then thinking of how can we make sure that uh people's time's efficiency is better used by X . These all ideas start competing with space, and if I can use a large language model or other piece of technology to firstly capture so I know I can come back to it, get some feedback on it to see if anyone else has done it, has it been working well, and then have a plan of what steps to take in order to take it forward, that helps me to manage my anxiety levels. Because the problem I have is that people pleasing Tim, who's still trying to get rice and peas from his mum. Yeah. Is very afraid of letting people down. And as a result, all of these ideas going off in one, I'm like, well, I've started this, I need to finish it. I haven't finished it. Oh no, that's bad. And that negative thing, like, oh gosh, here you go. And my wife's constantly saying not another idea to him. So this allows me to process things and organise things in the right way. How many emails have you got in your inbox? Oh, like hundreds of thousands, yeah. So I've got my my PA hates me, like hates me because I don't want to throw anything away. So I need to keep it just in case, right? That's part of my protection . My artificial intelligence chief of staff processes all of my emails, works out if it's important or not, puts it into a label, creates a list on a Friday that then I send to my PA who then checks through every single one of the things on that list and says, Timmy, I can breathe because I know I'm not panicking about stuff. And once again, like I started the conversation, it gives me space to fill it with the things that I want to rather than the worry. So this is how they tell us to integrate AI into our lives. Correct. And then my daughter and some of her cohorts are like, well, you've wasted a gallon of water asking that. Like I get shamed in my house for using large language models. But they're here to stay, that's a fact. And utilizing them efficiently and effectively, I think escapes a lot of people. I use mine kind of, I don't really know how to use it. So you've got the magic recipe of how to unlock this technology to work better for business. What makes you want to share that and not just gatekeep it so that you can be the most successful one? It's not in my nature. I think I've grown up in a community and I'm talking about a Caribbean community that was forced to help each other because a simple thing, like getting access to property was really difficult for immigrants who came into this country. You with an Irish heritage will understand this, and me with a Caribbean uh shares a similar story. There were signs on doors which said no blacks, no Irish, and no dogs. I remember meeting an Irish man, and he said, Why do blacks have to always be first? Let us win for something, right? Because the blacks was always the top of the list. But the problem was is that in those scenarios, you could either shrink and not do anything or what you had to do was find a sense of community, find other people who were on the same level as you that you could trust and work together with. We used to have this thing called a partner system, which was a trust circle where we everyone would put resource into the middle of the pot every single month and not talk over the week, but money of the month, you would get your dose this month. Next month would be Johnny, next young Kevin, next month me. And everyone was in a circle of trust because we couldn't go to banks and get access to to finance. So we couldn't buy property . And this was the only way we shared. And what that said to me, and what that left with me, is that we have to get communities working better together, but they have to have something that they can share which trusts and bonds them. And if we can do more of that, I think people will be better. Hence why I talk about technology, hence why I talk about reworking and other things. Was all the this wasn't happening in your lifetime in the UK? Yes. In the last forty-eight and a half years. There were people. So you got to remember, not too long ago, the government were trying to get rid of people who had no papers. So if you were a a a an Irish dock worker or a one who was um putting tarmac on the streets and you'd come over and done the work done the work but you didn't have any papers or anything to prove that you should be here, you were you were lost and you weren't claiming benefits. I went with an amazing woman called Rosaline Blair who with the Irish Irish Center over in Camden was helping individuals who weren't able to claim benefits for like 15, 20 years and actually reclaim all that sort of stuff and that was same for lots of the Jamaican community who, as part of the Windrush scandal, the documents were they didn't documents to prove they were here, and they were shipped out of this country after sacrificing off of the back of a call to come to this country, which they were told was also their country, and when they were in need, they were completely ushered out the door. And that was a complete strategic thing from a government, which I think is shameful and is still going on today. So I think what people often want you to believe is that this is this was old, that there's there's none of that now, everyone's integrated, it's all fine, you're just uh some horrible rhetoric to the past. But actually, this is current history . This is real stuff for people. So paint me a picture of what that climate was like for a young Jamaican boy growing up in East London. As a young Jamaican boy growing up in East London, you were very aware of where you fitted in. So the aspirations that were set for me at school, I believed were quite limited. Because once again, we also had a school system which looked on young black boys as special needs boys, where we have very different conversations about special special education needs today than we did back in the 80s, right? Where young black boys, black children in general, were siphoned off out of the system as needing specialist care because they were mentally inept. When actually the conversations that we're having with children now about special education needs, neurodiversity, and others could have actually saved lots of those children from going off and being lost into the system. So growing up in an environment where the conversation led from my household, which said, you must work twice as hard as your white counterparts. Don't get scared. It's not that kind of thing, right? But but essentially, that's what we were told was a multifaceted thing. On one level, it prepared you. So we talked about resilience. You got very resilient really quickly because you had to fight for your place, literally in some situations, against some of the negative rhetoric that was that was out there. But also inadvertently, it made you really question about the strength of your melanated skin, which you had no con no control over . And I asked myself the question like, why do I have to work twice as hard as everybody else? Who who wrote that rule? Like and why should it be the case? I'm just like everybody else, because we've seen our kids play with each other, not our kids, but with other children, they don't care about that. Like, who's got the best toy? Like, like, who's gonna help me win at this particular thing? But we have separated them based on on the melanated skin that they have. And as a young man, I resented that. Yeah. I really resented that. I I I didn't think it was fair. I have a massive thing about fairness. Um another neurodiversity symptom, yeah. 100% right. So the the the social injustice of it really propelled me to want to go and protect those who had suffered as a result of it. Um so as a young man, lots of the things I do now are formed from that very early stage. Seeing people othered for nothing, um, seeing people not reach their full potential. And me, Lucky Tim, literally Lucky Tim, managed to get through and use his mouth wisely to talk himself in and out That's so great. And that's what you got the MBE for is empowering I didn't believe I deserved an MBE because I've I think the recognition of the work that we did was because I led it. It's because I led it. I was the one who took the risk at the beginning and started up the thing fantastic. But I had an amazing team of people who are much, much more clever than I ever, ever am or will be, who helped me to get that forward. So I collected on their behalf. But what I really collected it on is I collected on my mum's behal f because taking her to the palace, I kind of was like blase, like go for a day, mum's wanna come, she was ecstatic, my wife came with me. Seeing my mum cry on that day because for her as somebody who'd been called over to this country, had to suffer all of that racial abuse, work so hard, sacrifice, never riding a bike, or doing all these lovely things as she wanted to do, and making sure we got to do all those things, for her , it wasn't about enterprise culture, which I was getting celebrated for. It was for her that she'd made the right choices. And she hadn't failed as a mother. And as a parent, I totally got that. And it broke me . It it really broke me to see her so happy and proud. But it was more so that she'd made the right sacrifices and they were worth it because she made a lot of them. I feel like I obviously can't speak to the black experience in this country, but one of the things this test does is measures levels of inflammation. And I think that a const ant stress of uh vigilance and assessment, every experience that you have, everywhere you go, metabolizing constant injustice can't be discounted in a test like this. Oh no, 100%. I think one of the reasons why my wife worries so much is that I'm constantly fighting because I feel that's what you have to do sometimes. I'm not this passive guy. Um I use nice language because it disarms people, but I am quite aggressive in the way that I want to change the societies that we live in. For everybody. Not just for black people, but for everybody. Because I think the reality is that people are people and uh the difference is really about class rather than anything else. And people will have you believe it's about other things, but it is about that. But what my wor my wife worries about is things like blood pressure, causal, all these stress elements and what is that doing to me and what's the cost of doing good stuff on the things that she cares about most, which is our relationship and our ability to be together. And and I get it, I get it. Having some of those medical conditions, having relatively high blood pressure, yeah, big thing in the black community. Um I like my my food spiced with lots of different stuff and that may not be the right thing for my my blood pressure, but I I have it under control. We talk about generational curses and breaking those trends. One of the things we need to do is break the health trends as well because I'm wearing this badge not by accident, but prostate cancer, big thing within the black community, black men are. Is it? Massive. Black men are twice as likely to get their white counter counterparts. No one knows why. Have you asked a large language model this question? 100%. I've asked I've asked um what we could do around getting a test on the record. The challenge is, unlike mammograms and other things, it's not as easy to identify prostate cancer in men without certain tests, which are not cost-effective to run on a large scale. So men get PSA tests, but they can do false negatives and other bits and bobs, right? And and doctor will tell us more about this later, hopefully, if if I've got anything wrong. But my understanding is that the tests can't give enough positive outcomes to justify doing it on the grand scale it needs to without some more refinement. But I think we need to do much more around getting that on television because for men, it's the equivalent of breast cancer. It's the biggest killer for men as blood pressure is So what made you go to the doctor? Have you always been someone who will advocate for health? Because I think also men don't go to the doctor. Um, and we've spoken about masculinity in this conversation. Um, was it your wife who pushed you to go? Yeah. So you need to have a wife to survive. And you need to be torso of the week to get a wife. You don't. That's the whole point. No, but th there's it's no accident the stats say that married men are happier than married women, right? Because we get so much benefits from it. We we there are so many benefits that we pull out of it. But the reality is my wife did nag me to go and get tested because I was sitting there like I'm feeling bit tired. If I go and get tested, no, I'm all right, I'll just plug on because there's some innate like reward of going against the odds and just pushing through, which is just nonsense. It's stupid, right? But my wife did nag me, it led to the diagnosis, and thankfully, we got sortied with regards to the cancer. But I know so many women who are involved in their men's lives around getting them checked and and staying healthy. So that's why I wanted to always have a campaign which said, yes, we need the medical references, yes, we need to target men and their peer groups, but we definitely need to talk to all the women in their lives because you for the beginning of time have had regular checks about your health, whether you're going for a smear test, whether you're going for your your m m mammograms, all of these things are built into the female existence. Annoyingly so, as my wife tells me, but the value is she knows where she is at any one given time. That's not the case for men. We're allowed to just uh sit back and take it as we want when actually maybe we should be forced to go and get the checks. And for men who are over 40 or 45, that is now one of the things we're really trying to avoid. Now that you are over 40 and you have um bounced back from cancer and you have high blood pressure and some really quite serious things. What do you predict your biological age will be today? My ego tells me, you're gonna come and tell me that I'm your fittest guest you've ever had on on the fig. The reality is that it's probably gonna come back and it say, Tim, you're probably fifty-nine, sixty plus because you're doing too much. Do you think you're doing too much? I know I'm doing too much, but I take that ability or opportunity to do much as a privilege. How much do you sleep at night? Very little. Four maybe five hours. That's Obama's answer. She used to say when the clocks went forward or back, she wouldn't adjust her time. She just carry on going to do the same thing. Psycho. Do you like Margaret Thatcher? Um I don't I I don't like the legacy of some of the policies, but I respect a woman who led a country at a time when women's rights weren't really what they are today. Yeah, but you're like the opposite of Margaret Thatcher because she hated women and pulled the ladder up behind herself and you were very generous. Oh, 100%. But but I think whatever was necessar what sometimes women have had to do what is necessary to make it. And that may not always be the n the new way of doing it, but I think at the time there was no other option. You couldn't have had a a soft and flowery hugger tree kumbayar leader at that time. And I think the legacies of some of the policies and other things would have been seen in the light of day to day. But you still have to respect a a a a woman who led from the front, wasn't given permission by her husband, all these other stuff that women still do today or have to fight against today. That in isolation, great conversation. Political with a bigger P, another one. Yeah. And we welcome all your listeners from the North East. I see do you know what this thing? I I think there is a danger around this cancel culture, right? I think it's a real thing for many people. But one, I don't make my money from being popular. So okay, if that's gonna happen, fine. But I want people to have more debates because that's exactly what they don't want us to do. You and I should be able to have very different opinions, but sit in a room and have a conversation, right? Um, I am very binary in my views, I know what I believe and I know what I don't. But if someone shows me something that I didn't realize, I'm also emotionally intelligent enough to know: well, actually, there's space for something else in there, and I'm now enriched because of that conversation. I support with a charity, um, I still do call um Speak Out. It's by Jack Petchy Foundation, right? They encourage young people to publicly debate and talk about subjects which really mean something to them. So whatever is resonating for you at this time, you are forced to speak in front of an audience and tell people about it. You have to do the research, put an argument together and go from there. And I think that is multifaceted is a good thing because one it gives people the confidence talking over spaces, one of the biggest things important. We get paid a lot of money to do this kind of stuff, so that makes sense. But also , it informs other people about a different point of view. And you have to make sure your argument is well rehearsed and researched in order to stand up to criticism. And one of the things I really am conscious of as a parent is not shielding my children from criticism or the fact that they might be wrong or not understand everything. Because believe my children think they know everything. But the reality is that they don't. So I think we've got to get rid of these echo chambers and have more places where we can have discourse, which is not an algorithm repeating or reinforcing the thing that we already believed. Physically, what are you doing to offset this high blood pressure and this age almost forty-nine? Uh do you eat well? Do you exercise? I exercise a lot. Um so I get the good bits out of the way first. So I do a lot of martial arts against very fit 20 year olds. So I'm I'm quite physically uh active. So that's quite good. Does martial arts also have sort of meditation in it and breathing and stuff? Yeah. So that part never gets enough light I think. But the ability to be calm under pressure is a big aspect of most of the martial arts that I've been able to do. Very well. So whether it's Muay Thai or Brazilian Jiu Jitsu most recently with a team at Inglorious Grapp lers, th the big thing you actually learn is puzzle solving. So w if something's presenting you with a puzzle, what can you do with it? And if you're under stress, just breathe. Just breathe. Which is a good thing in life, right? So whenever I go to do something like this and I get really nervous before, I can calm and and go into it okay. Um what I don't do so well is eat well. Uh I'm a terrible snacker. Okay, what kind of snacks? Oh, crisps. Fine.. Crisp No, it's not fine. Will your mother, you know, you've come to this country, you have to eat the national dish. That would be fish and shit. But yeah, I don't know. I love a crisp. So I'll I'll open three packets at the same time and variety. It's terrible, it's terrible. You're a very successful man. Treat yourself. Yeah, but what are your favorite flavors? Um Monster Munch Beef, um, cheese and onion, the uh McCoys. Yeah, it was a twisters, um cheso cheesos, the the the the flaming hot ones. Oh yes, and they're and they leave your fingers all of salt. Too much too much salt for my blood pressure. I think you've chosen the worst three. Uh Pringles is the only one that could probably beat it. Okay. And then what do you eat when I feel better? You see I just did that. What do you eat? Not Pringles. Moving on. Okay. What's the good stuff that you eat? Uh so I love I love um vegetables. So uh in terms of the the plate, I will love bri broccoli, corn, which black man doesn't like but corn, I I'd have loads of that, um uh spinach, all the all the healthy green stuff. Um And growing up, was your mother cooking Jamaican food? Oh massively. Yeah, so we would get um anything from jerk chicken, curry goat, um we'd have lots of cakes which were unfortunately fruit soaked in soaked in alcohol for 20 million years, liquidized, and then done out there. Most moist, beautiful cakes you'd ever have, right? But um maybe not great for the alcohol content. Um we had a variety of dishes, but they were very intensely flavoured and sometimes quite high in salt. Salt. Salt's the killer, in it. It's horrible. Well, you know, chefs, when they say seasoned, they mean salt. That's right. I did a cooking show, they're like season that and I thought with what it just means salt. Yeah. But I do like spice. You've got a lot of really healthy spices too. Give me a give me a Scotch Bodnet pepper and I can make magic happen. You can have just maybe an extra one of those and less salt. Okay. All right. After everything we've discussed, are you feeling more positive about what your results are gonna be or more negative? I just feel you've led me into a nice little safe place now. You're gonna punch me in the nose. Well, not now that I know about your martial arts. I think we should invite our resident scientist, Dr. Nicola Conlin, and reveal the results of your biological age. Okay, let's do it. Grab the unrivaled Samsung Galaxy S26 Ultra with an incredible privacy display on EE, the UK's best network. You can save £20 per month. Plus claim a Samsung Galaxy Tab S10 Lite. Now we're talking. So get yours today. Offer ends 28th of May. Saving on minimum 24 months 125 gigabyte airtime plan. Eligibility, credit check and tub supply, credit by EE Limited, claim from Samsung within 30 days of purchase. Verify Best Network at EE.critty K slash claims. At Tui , we give you more . More outfit choices with 20 kilograms of luggage allowance as standard. More hotels built around what you love, like that swim-up suite. More race you to the bottom, water parks on site. More. Ooh, that looks good. Food options. From poolside snacks to a la carte dining. Book on app, in store or online. You book it, two we sort it. At all and app to protected, keys and seas apply selected hotels only. See website for details. Tombola presents a winner every second. There are so many winners on Tombola. My friend Carol won a tanner doing squat thrusts of Pilates. Bakadanet na na! My auntie Steve won 15 pounds 20 on the commuter train from Brighton. You could be one of over a hundred thousand players winning every day on Tombola. Tombola, more games, more fun, more chances to win. Play now to verify add verification at tombola.com 18 plus gambleaware.org terms apply Tim we took your blood yep what made you give it to us by the way I don't you know what I I thought about this when I sent it and I was like, who are these people? What are they gonna do with this thing, right? We have a very a aversion to giving away blood in the black community. So like what's actually gonna happen with this stuff? But I think the results hopefully will be worth it. It's like a Jordan Peel movie. I could do anything I want. This is next. All right. So the people at Glycan Age have taken your blood and they have tested it. And now we are joined by Dr. Nicola Conlin. Come on in, Doctor. What do you got for me? Your age is under there. I'll tell you the story. Trying to take my blood took forever to actually get the thing to dig me. My break, my my my protective characteristic would not let me stab myself. Because you're a cancer, you went full shell. Well, full full shell, and it wasn' So Nicola has dedicated her career to human longevity. She's got over ten years researching cellular aging. She knows about this stuff. Tim Campbell, your chronological age 4 is 8 . Oh, so it's on the chronological age, Tim Campbell. I was getting started. Your real biological age on the inside is. 23. No way. Of course, I love this whole process. It's fantastic. This is the way we should go. Everyone test your blood. Wow. I'm such a boy in it. Because now I want to boast about the fact that I'm 23 rather than forty-eight. Well, it is really something to boast about. Nicola, what do you think of these results? This is a great one. And honestly, like I've been sat in the back listening and and really I think this challenges all our assumptions because everything that you were saying would sound like like this should be a lot higher. So like anyone that listens to this show will probably have heard me talk about something called the manager's profile that we talk about. And when we're measuring biological age, what we do is we look at patterns of glycans, which are like little sugar chains on your immune cells. But they have different patterns. And when we look at biological age, we see various patterns that come up time and time again. And one of them we call the manager's profile. And what we tend to see is this comes up in people who have exactly your lifestyle. So they are entrepreneurs, they are not sleeping very much, they have got fifty tabs open in their brain, and they are just constantly on the go. And usually that would be associated with having more inflammation, which would then increase biological age , but we don't see that in you. And I think for me, the theme that came up time and time again was this idea of resilience. So I think it's really important to acknowledge that yes, we can have stressful lives , but it's really how we deal with that stress. And I liked what you were talking about about, you know, that work life blend and really trying to hone in on that, because I think that a lifestyle like yours could drive a lot of anxiety. And unfortunately, you know, it sounds like a lot of the resilience you've brought up has been through stressful situations, which we know again the body can hold on to but it seems that you have definitely have this way and you know just hearing you talk about how in your head you process situations that are stressful and sort of try to understand things that may cause anxiety, but then take a step back, have a breath. The things that you were talking about dealing with that, you clearly deal with that very well . And even it was really interesting hearing you talk about how AI has helped you to process things that could cause anxiety and, you know, help you deal with that better. So I think The thing I didn't mention, but was implied, I'm happy. And it may not have come across enough. I'm actually happy. So I'm I'm I'm I'm so happy. I'm I'm happy to be alive. I'm happy to be married. I'm happy to be a parent. I'm happy with my results. So tell me . But I am I am genuinely happy. Yeah. And I think if I didn't have my wife and my house, I know you talk about this lots with your related like that is my safe space. So all the other nonsense, I can come into my bubble and I'm okay and I'm all right. And you can forget stuff and switch off. Very interesting. Very interesting. What do you think the key is to your happiness if you could um counsel other people to if if I was humble enough to be able to be in a position to advise anybody, I had to get very comfortable with how crap I am at things, but be okay with that. So I spent most of my childhood comparing myself to other people who were able to sit attentively, who were able to do all this stuff, who were not me, like lots of the white kids. I'd like, well, my mum told me you'd be better, you'd be fine. I want to be like you. So I spent a lot of my my childhood comparing myself to other people or other things. And it was around univers ity time, I kind of stopped giving the monkeys about comparing myself. And like I I started to believe I was enough and I think that's the bit that has is at the basis. I don't have any baggage. Like I'm not carrying over stuff from dodgy relationships. I've processed now through counselling, most of the stuff from my childhood with my my parents and their separation and all that stuff. And as a result, it's left lots of space for me just to be really grateful for the things that I have. And I am happy. Yeah, I am happy. Can I ask what kind of therapy you did? So just like talking or something. Talking. Talk talking therapy. And it had elements of cognitive other bits in there, but the main thing was a safe space to be vulnerable. And for me as a male, that was quite important, once again prompted by my lovely wife. Um, but I was carrying a lot of things that I wasn't able to process because I didn't feel I could load them onto my wife because my responsibility as the man was to do all this other stuff when actually she needed me to see me vulnerable so that we could all grow because then she may not worry so much about me running off and doing 100 miles an hour things all the all the different times. And as a result of the therapy guiding me, as most therapy does, to come up with the answers that were right for me, I was able to show up as a different person in my house, in my relationship, at work , and I I I now can filter out things that just don't work for me. If it's not gonna make me happy, well money, I tend not to do them, right? So it's a quite easy, quite easy metric. If I tune in to reworking wherever I get my podcasts, um am I gonna learn how to utilize AI to do the same? What you're gonna learn is from people who are at the cutting edge of AI, how you can integrate it into your life. Because I think at the moment it's being sold as a an attack on our way of living. Very much like the Luddites would have had conversations or the bridge makers or the steam engine manufacturers. And I think the difference between then and now, which is why people should listen to the podcast, is that it's happening so quick, there's not a lot of time to adjust. So therefore, you need to listen to people who have real-world experience of how they have adjusted so you can get the cheat codes uh of how to do it today because we haven't got a lot of time to relearn it. We kind of have to see what from authentic people is working and how we can adapt to so I've got a question. Have you used AI to optimize your lifestyle in any way? Yes. So I have used AI to tell me about how I can manage my blood pressure. Um so it tells me the stuff with lots of caveats obviously because it's not medical professional and it should be through a GP and having those conversations. But it has told me, based on lots of research you can get access to, what are some of the best things that people from my background, my heritage, my history can do to change their lives. And it usually comes down to the food that you're eating, making sure that you're drinking enough water, and if you can follow the prescribed medication if it's necessary, but stick to it. Lots of people start it, get better, and then drop off because they think they're invincible. It's sticking to the routine, changing the diet so you may not need as much medicine as possible and just trying to live a better life. Can you get AI to block monster Munch from your akkado order? This is the problem. Um no. Because depending on how you get it to talk to you, it can be nice or very, very difficult and strict. Do you use the Jamaican mom AI? No. Actually that's a good idea. That is actually a good idea. Oh mine was wrong. No, it was very good. It was actually very good. We're both gonna get cancelled for different reasons now, so I'm gonna make my AI a Jamaican mom. No, but you've got Irish cork cork blood in you. You just have to do that and you'll start listening. Okay. What else do you think about this amazing result, Nicole? Yeah, like so in the questi onnaire, like just looking at some other things that you do, I think uh in the questionnaire of the research it came up that maybe you'd skip breakfast and I don't do breakfast as well. Right. Because well so what time do you sort of have your last meal? So my last meal, depending on what I'm doing, because I snack a lot, it could be anywhere from ten o'clock up until just before midnight. Which is not good, I know. But I also this, is my challenge for you. I don't buy into this three meals a day thing. I think it's a manufactured construct where you should break fast when you're hungry or you need the next level of nutrition. We're not worried about like storing forever in a day because we can't find out what we're gonna kill or not, right? So I tend to break my fast and I tend to get hungry around midday, one o'clock. I'll then have something wholesome like a couple of eggs, some avocado, look at Posh Tim moved out of his London now. Um but I'll have that kind of stuff. Uh and that will keep me going till maybe four or five o'clock. I'll have something before I go to the gym. So I train Brazilian Jiu Jitsu in the evening. I'll Yeah. So actually I think what you're describing there is is the idea of your eating when you're hungry and when your body is telling you to, which I completely agree with. You know, we're sold that we have to eat three times a day and we have to eat between meals and et cetera, et cetera. And I think probably what you're kind of doing without realizing it is a bit of intermittent fasting. And we do know that's incredibly good for managing your blood sugar levels, managing inflammation, especially more for men. Yes. Um so you know, if you're having your last meal of the day, I know you said sometimes you snack, but say like ten and then you're going all the way till twelve, one, that's a good period of time when it almost puts your body in a state of it's it's going into repair mode rather than build mode and in terms of longevity and inflammation we know that's that's really good. Also then breaking that fast with not the traditional breakfast cereal type carbs that were always sold. Things like eggs, avocado, you're giving it protein, you know, yeah, all of these things are good fuels to be starting the day. Um and we know that helps with something called metabolic flexibility. So that means that your body can really handle its blood sugar a bit better and glucose, which is really important for inflammation. So I think without even realizing you're quite in tune with your body and your biology and almost harnessing that that in a way's really beneficial. And it's probably having some benefit at the cellular level that you probably didn't realize. Not at all. So I'm so shocked. I really thought you were going to tell me like it was off the scale and I was