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A Bit of Optimism

Simon Sinek

How to Tell If Fear Is Protecting You or Holding You Back with Extreme Athlete Nelly Attar

Jun 30, 202651 min
Summary

In this episode, the host interviews Nelly Attar, a psychologist turned extreme athlete and mountaineer who has made history as the first Arab to summit K2 and as a pioneer for women's sports in Saudi Arabia. The discussion moves beyond the surface-level definition of fear, exploring how Attar transitioned from an underground fitness instructor in a restrictive environment to a world-class climber. A central theme of the conversation is the nature of risk versus purpose. Attar explains that her initial motivation for launching a secret dance studio for women was not a grand plan for activism, but a personal refusal to live an average life. She reveals how small, incremental acts of courage—supported by a strong community—can lead to profound social change. The discussion takes an insightful turn toward the concept of service, as Attar emphasizes that her intense preparation for high-altitude climbs is a duty to the support teams and local guides who make such feats possible. Ultimately, the episode encourages listeners to adopt an attitude of kindness and service in everyday life, arguing that making someone feel seen and valued is a powerful, yet often overlooked, way to live with purpose.

Updated Jul 3, 2026

About This Episode

We tell ourselves the reason we never chase the big dream is that we're not ready, not brave enough, doomed to fail. Nelly Attar would tell you she felt all of that too… but she chased them anyway. Nelly is a psychologist turned extreme athlete and mountaineer. She built Saudi Arabia's first dance studio, MOVE, at a time when women couldn't train publicly by sneaking classes into a warehouse and office building after hours. She's the first Lebanese person to climb the five highest peaks in the world, like Everest. And she also became the first Arab to summit K2, the world’s second highest peak that’s so dangerous that one in four people who attempt it survive. But what makes Nelly remarkable aren’t the summits and heights she reaches. It's that she's found a way to turn individual acts of accomplishment into acts of service: for the women she shows what's possible and for the team that climbs beside her. In this episode you'll learn: ➡️ The difference between fear that protects you and fear that holds you back ➡️ How preparing and working hard can lighten the load for others ➡️ What small, daily kindness practices become the best investment you can make ➡️ Why there's no such thing as "self-made" and what actually de-risks courage ➡️ The art of “strategic retreat” + why quitting and retreating aren't the same thing ➡️ Why your title and achievements aren’t your identity (and what is) ➡️ How movement is medicine, and why the mind leads the body ➡️ What it really means to live a life of service to the people right in front of you In this conversation, Nelly shows that the size of what you accomplish matters far less than the spirit you bring to it. She faces her fear for herself, but she does the hard work for everyone else.  This… is A Bit of Optimism. + + + Want to keep up with Nelly’s adventures? Check out: https://www.nellyattar.com/  + + + Chapters Chapters 00:00:00 If You Don't Try, You'll Never Know: Nellie's Philosophy on Fear 00:02:20 Building Saudi Arabia's First Dance Studio 00:07:45 The Real Risk Worth Taking: Purpose Over Fear 00:12:07 The Support System Behind Every Bold Move 00:14:11 From Dance Floor to Everest: Training in the Desert for Sub-Zero Summits 00:20:13 Climbing for Others: The Service Mindset on the Mountain 00:21:19 Preparing So You Don't Burden Your Team 00:26:11 The Practice of Kindness: Small Acts That Change Everything 00:33:02 Leading Hikes to Help Others Climb Their Mountains 00:36:17 K2: Climbing Through Grief After Losing Her Father 00:39:24 One in Four Don't Come Back: The Reality of K2 00:41:00 Strategic Retreat: Knowing When to Turn Around 00:43:59 The Infinite Mindset: You Are Not Your Accomplishments 00:45:44 Creating Safe Spaces for Others to Discover Their Boundaries 00:48:39 Fear That Protects vs Fear That Holds You Back + + + Simon is an unshakable optimist. He believes in a bright future and our ability to build it together. Described as “a visionary thinker with a rare intellect,” Simon has devoted his professional life to help advance a vision of the world that does not yet exist; a world in which the vast majority of people wake up every single morning inspired, feel safe wherever they are and end the day fulfilled by the work that they do. Simon is the author of multiple best-selling books including Start With Why, Leaders Eat Last, Together is Better, and The Infinite Game. + + + Website: http://simonsinek.com/ Leaderful: https://simonsinek.com/leaderful Podcast: http://apple.co/simonsinek Instagram: https://instagram.com/simonsinek/ Linkedin: https://linkedin.com/in/simonsinek/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/simonsinek Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/simonsinek

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